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How Gen Z Can Navigate the Modern Job Search
418 Plays4 months ago
The world of work is constantly evolving, and for early career professionals in Generation Z, the job search can feel like an uncharted territory.
In this episode, Sophie O'Brien, founder of Pollen Careers, sheds light on the realities of career development today. Sophie provides actionable tips on how Gen Z can approach the job search process with confidence and land the perfect opportunity.
Learn more about Pollen Careers.
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Transcript
00:00:13
Speaker
Welcome.
Gen Z's Job Market Challenges
00:00:14
Speaker
This is hashtag Gen Z, a podcast that explores Generation Z, who they are, how they're different from other generations, while also being an incredible blend of those who came before them. We explore what they think is cool and what moves them and why they do what they do. I'm your host Megan Grace, and it is so nice to have you here. This is episode 54. As we discussed in the last episode, Gen Z is coming into the world of work with a set of expectations for the companies and organizations they want to join. and they are establishing those expectations earlier in life, along with starting their job search earlier in their college careers. But just because Gen Z is arguably more career-oriented than previous generations does not mean they're navigating career development without their own set of challenges or experiencing barriers. A recent study by Ripple Match, a recruitment automation platform, reported on the landscape of Gen Z job searching. From the recent fall 2023 report,
00:01:07
Speaker
Ripple Match shared some of the most common challenges Gen Z faces in their job search. The number one challenge that Gen Z cited, which was cited by over 60% of job searchers, is having their applications stand out and progressing to the interview stage. 45% indicate they experience challenges of being ghosted by recruiters, and 1 in 3 indicate they struggle to find jobs that are a right fit for their skill set and interests. And when they asked how many applications they predict sending out, more than half of Gen Z plan to send over a hundred applications for jobs. So it's safe to say Gen Z is certainly dedicated to their job search and building their career path, but it's also clear that they see road bumps ahead.
00:01:49
Speaker
but does it
Sophie O'Brien's Mission with Pollen Careers
00:01:50
Speaker
really have to be this way? My guess this episode is actually trying to change that. I'm joined by Sophie O'Brien, the founder of Paul and Careers, a job platform on a mission to transform the entry-level job market to be more inclusive and an equitable space. Having recruited, mentored, and tutored many young people over the last decade, Sophie's determined to break down the many barriers that young people face when looking for their right path and champion those who deserve a fairer chance. As the founder of Paulin Careers, Sophie's using her experience and passion to help entry-level candidates land a career that inspires them to be their best, regardless of their background or experience level, and to encourage employers to ditch outdated screening methods, which often lead to ineffective and biased hiring. There's so much to explore with Sophie, so let's get into it.
00:02:42
Speaker
Well, welcome Sophie. It is so wonderful to have you here and I'm excited to have you be a part of today's conversation. I think that as I've been exploring kind of Gen Z in terms of jobs and careers, there's a really important part of that whole process and that whole journey. And that's the very beginning when they even start thinking about career development. and applying for the jobs and that is where you're coming in to talk talk to us a lot more today but welcome Sophie it's so exciting to have you here. Thank you yeah it's great to be here thanks for having me. Tell us a little bit more about your story kind of ah not just like who you are and what your role is but a little bit about the journey that got you to the work that you're doing today. Yeah of course so I ah my background is maths like totally different to what I do now so I
00:03:30
Speaker
I loved maths at school, I went and did a maths degree, I just kept doing what I loved doing and when I left university I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do. My um careers advisors at school and university told me I should be an accountant or a maths teacher I went and tried the maths teaching thing and that was absolutely not for me. And I ended up falling into a career in media and advertising, having absolutely no idea that that would be relevant to my strengths or that I would enjoy doing it or it would be a good cultural and values fit for me. um And
Innovative Job Matching at Pollen Careers
00:04:15
Speaker
I ended up doing that for 14 years and i um I absolutely loved it.
00:04:21
Speaker
But for me, like the thing that I found frustrating about that was that I had no idea that that industry even existed. um I had no idea that I would be well suited to it. And having done a lot of recruitment on the other side, so in my last job, I was doing recruitment in a small business, and we were always bringing in junior talent to that company. is it was sort of a similar story. um Sometimes we'd like try and find people in alternative places and they'd never even heard of it. Like we were looking for data geeks and analysts and things like this, but nobody heard about it. So I guess I went and set it i went and decided to set up this business after a career doing that because I was just like, nothing has changed. It's still really hard to figure out what you wanna do
00:05:14
Speaker
how to go about doing that thing and trying to get your foot in the door is almost impossible, even though it's so difficult for employers to find great people. And there's this massive disconnect that exists between education and the workplace and things are changing so much that I really just wanted to do what I could to help people and fix these problems. So that's how my company, Pollen Careers, was founded and I've now been doing that for 18 months.
00:05:50
Speaker
um And we've built our community to 3,000 people, which is amazing. And yeah, we do exactly that. We help young job seekers with whatever we can to make their process of finding a job more productive and ultimately more positive. That's wonderful. So it's it's interesting because like while you started with math and have evolved outside of that, I'm sure those early years of teaching young people probably had a lot of um influence like you are some of their first people that are probably guiding them towards careers whether you saw that or not. um But let's talk a little bit about pollen and I know that it's been something that you've been working on for the last 18 months and it's fantastic to hear that you've grown that community um to the level that it is. A lot of people can do job search and career support. I feel like there's tons of that on LinkedIn, right? So how does pollen um provide kind of a different approach to that and what are some of the things that make it unique and how it's helping
00:06:47
Speaker
young people or as you've identified kind of junior talent or entry talent um into their industry and kind of exploring careers. Yeah. So I feel like a lot of the advice out there is very much geared around how to conform to the system. It's like how to build the perfect CV or how to write the best cover letter. And ultimately, those like those Those things aren't necessarily a golden ticket to getting a job because you can't like if companies are looking for people with the best degrees from the best university or people that have tons of relevant experience, which unfortunately they are, like you can't just make those things up. And unfortunately, a lot of people are forced to do so because they can't get their foot in the door and they can't compete against these elitist measures. What
Revolutionizing the Job Application Process
00:07:43
Speaker
we are trying to do is basically like
00:07:46
Speaker
revolutionize the whole thing and say, well, hang on a minute. Maybe the CV isn't the solution. Maybe encouraging people to write about a CV is not the solution here because let's face it, you can just use chat GPT to create a new CV. Like there's so many AI tools out there to help you can like cheat the system. um So we've basically created a model that tries to make job hunting much more inclusive. for for everybody and say, well, let let's try and match make you as an individual with a job that is right for your strengths and like your basic competence species, but also your values. So that's kind of our like our main product that that we we have created to try and break down those barriers and make sure that everybody gets a fair shot.
00:08:42
Speaker
When we're working with our community in terms of like more employability type initiatives, again, we're adopting a bit of a different approach here. I feel like certain this is certainly the case in the UK. We have a culture of conforming. Our education system is very much geared around how how do you stay in your lane? like do the things that we ask of you and don't go out, like don't challenge anything, stay inside your box and do what is asked of you. Don't step out of line, don don't speak up, don't voice your opinions. And I feel like this culture is so misaligned with how young people are and how they behave. It's so misaligned with Gen Z's values. And it's also totally misaligned
00:09:35
Speaker
with what employers want. So what we're trying to do is almost empower them and say, no, you know what? It's okay to be authentic. It's okay to be yourself because that's what's going to help you build confidence. That's what's going to make you stand out in an interview setting. It's okay to be curious. It's okay to ask like original questions. You don't need to ask these standardized questions of what what am I going to do in a day-to-day basis? What we're trying to encourage people to do is like actually care, like be curious, show like real genuine interest in this job, flatter them, push yourself out of your comfort zone, like say how awesome this is, go for it, like don't hold back, because actually that proactivity and that passion and enthusiasm can ultimately help you to get the job, and even if it doesn't,
00:10:24
Speaker
you could build your network or somebody could remember you and think, oh, they'd be great for another job. Like, wow, that person really, really wanted it, you know? And which one it just empower people and to set and and spread a message of it's okay to do that. So, um, that kind of leads to me to my next question. Where does the name Paulin come from?
The Meaning Behind 'Pollen'
00:10:45
Speaker
And I feel like I'm going to answer the question. I feel like I'm deducing to the the answer, but if you could share a little bit more, where it does, based on your model and what you do, how does that inspire the name that you all have? So Paulin is really about growth. Um, like that's, that's how it came about. And it's sort of growth, a growth mindset, like what we're trying to we encourage people to
00:11:09
Speaker
do is push themselves out of their comfort zone and like yeah open their minds to different things they might not have considered before, whether that's a different industry or a different job or a different pathway. like it's It's all about growth and we really encourage that growth mindset. It's also from an employer perspective all about growth of their businesses. A lot of the businesses that we work with are typically SMEs. They're growing companies, they they're always on the lookout for new people to come in. They wanna grow and they want people that are gonna come in and make an impact on their business. And and yeah, that all represents growth. There's sort of other dimensions to it, which I also really like. and I'm a passionate feminist. i I like the fact that the female empowerment side of Poland and female leadership is really important to me.
00:12:01
Speaker
Um, and like, thirdly, very random reason is because I'm from Manchester and B, a B is like the emblem of Manchester. So there's a personal relationship with it. We love a multi-layered name. Um, beautiful symbolism. So somebody once told me actually that I should ditch the name because it's too obscure. And I was like, no, I mean, if it works, it works, right? Um, and it's unique. It's so other people are going to listen to it. Um, so you spent a good amount of time mentoring and tutoring through obviously being a former math instructor. Maths, if we're talking about the, the UK, my friends, um, we've also spent significant amount of time recruiting and seeing, I think the experiences that young people, whether those are Gen Z or potentially late millennials, um,
00:12:51
Speaker
really the challenges and barriers that young people are experiencing in their career path. I think it's a difficult thing. There's a lot of personal identity that goes into it. But if you could summarize, what do you think are some of the main challenges and barriers that you've specifically seen for Gen Z experience in determining their career path?
00:13:09
Speaker
and It's a really interesting question. and I feel like this There's a lot of dimensions that go into this. I think one of the barriers that I see in the UK is that schools are massively under resourced and careers provisions in schools are typically reliant on teachers to facilitate a careers program and like get things off the ground and ultimately having been a teacher, there is no capacity to do that. There's no capacity to breathe.
00:13:49
Speaker
let alone set up and design a really brilliant careers program. And typically a lot of teachers in this country have only ever been teachers. So they're not necessarily that connected with the working world and understand how it has changed, which of course it has done, especially over the, I mean, it's changed a lot in the last three years, let alone the last 40 years. So the guidance has pretty much stayed the same. And I think a lot of young people therefore are reliant on family and friends and connections to give them that insight on what sort of career path that they should take or how to go about doing that. I think another major barrier, and this is very much what I see in the UK, is that there is still very much a rhetoric of what do you want to do?
00:14:47
Speaker
And it it's just it's not realistic anymore. nobody Nobody chooses a career path and then just stays ah gets a job and then stays in that job for their entire career. And one thing that we are a massive advocate of is squiggly careers. And ultimately people go in so many different directions to get to where they want to be. And I feel like that pressure of knowing what you want to do should just be removed entirely.
00:15:20
Speaker
You can do so many different things and have a fulfilling career. like i mean i like I don't know what I want to do. like I'm 35 years old. I've
Rethinking Career Path Decisions
00:15:28
Speaker
done so many different things. like What I want to do today might differ from what I want to do tomorrow. And I feel like that younger people need to know that it's okay that they don't know what they want to do. And employers need to stop expecting people to know what they want to do. because like ultimately that doesn't necessarily that get them the best person for the job. You end up inflicting bias on a knowledge basis by assuming that everybody knows what they want to do. They've heard about your industry. They've heard about this profession. I mean, there's so many jobs that don't even exist yet. So where does this concept even come from?
00:16:08
Speaker
I think I love, I mean, I love the idea of the squiggly career because it's absolutely true and much more realistic. I think um the challenges that you've stated in the UK, we've got them in the US as well. And I know it's other places that teachers are in a very pivotal position to influence young people, but at the same time, they have a lot of pressure on them. They're like, you gotta teach this curriculum and change lives and keep everybody safe and make sure that we've hit metrics, right? And I know that there's even people, ah professionals in the US where their job is just helping students go to university and making sure that they get to the right university. And then it's like, okay, when they're in college, they'll figure out what they want to do. um But I think that that also is counterintuitive to what we know from a higher education lens that a lot of young people don't want to go to university, they don't want to go to college, if they don't have a career path in mind, because they're i'm about to spend four years and a lot of money doing it.
00:17:02
Speaker
And so it's a lot of pressure, I think, that we're putting on literal teenagers to be like, what do you want to do in your life's career? And I hope it works out for you. um When in the reality, as people that have been in their career know that it gets real squiggly even in the first year of college and we change our mind. I feel like people shouldn't have to make a decision about whether they go into higher education until they're like 25. Like I feel like what should happen is that they leave school, they go and work, they see where they what they're good at, what they enjoy, what they don't enjoy. And then like, and also your brain is still developing until you're 25. Like neurologically, like how can how is it fair to make people make really quite serious decisions about their future when they're like 16 years old, that's when you're still a child? oh
00:17:57
Speaker
and like actually by that age you've probably figured out oh well you know maybe I do want to go and be a doctor but at least then you've had that time to figure that out and you're like okay yeah I'm informed like I know I'm an adult and like I know what's I know what's ahead I know that 10 years of of study and exams but I think ah six like somebody that's 25, 26 is much better informed to make that decision than somebody that's 16. That's a huge question. I think you bring up for a really good point as well. and we're and Where I really want to talk is employers and organizational leaders and the expectations we have of entry level or junior talent, however we want to frame of it, people coming right out of college or potentially right out of high school or secondary education, um and the expectation that they're coming in with five years experience.
00:18:48
Speaker
and
Employer Expectations vs. Entry-Level Talent
00:18:49
Speaker
a deep passion for being someone's marketing assistant or being an executive assistant or whoever it is that we're expecting. I think a big problem is that we've got employers and we we've got ah organizational leaders that are expecting the literal 18 year old or the 22 year old to come in and be like, I've got four years of experience and I'm going to be a lifelong lifelong passionate person about fill in the blank industry when Everyone knows who has ever been in the job that it that is not the case, right? Like sometimes we just need a foot in the door and be excited about that job um and So tell me Sophie what can if we're gonna kind of turn it like we've identified some of the challenges that we've got going on so we we can't fix right away, right like teachers being too busy and
00:19:37
Speaker
that probably is something that you and I can't immediately fix. But something I do think that we can do is send some good messages to employers, people that are hiring this generation, so that they can adapt practices to potentially minimize barriers or alleviate challenges. What does that look like for employers or organizational leaders that want to attract Gen Z talent while also reducing the frustration and barriers that young people might be experiencing? Yeah. so there' Yeah, there's a there's a lot of things. that yeah As you say, but they can be fixed. They can be. um The first one is inclusivity. And this is what we champion to all of our employers. we are Any employees that we work with, we say you can't screen on a degree.
00:20:28
Speaker
we don't and we don't even look at that. That doesn't get, that isn't taken into account when we are trying to match an employer with someone in our community. And it just so happens that most people actually do have degrees because that is the default in our education system that people do go on to university. But what that means is that we're not like, when you're in a, when you're in a recruiters position, which I have been, When you're hiring at entry level, you don't really have much to go off on a CV. So you're forced to screen on these crazy measures, like have they got a degree from a top university? Have they got relevant experience, all of this sort of stuff, but really those things aren't indicators that somebody's going to be good at the job. And you end up excluding loads of amazing people who for some, maybe maybe they did try to go to university and it wasn't right for them and they dropped out.
00:21:26
Speaker
Maybe they had a a crisis, maybe they had, they experienced a trauma and it meant that they couldn't complete their studies. Maybe the education system just wasn't right for them, but they are like so entrepreneurial and so unbelievable, like you would be missing out on these exceptional individuals. You also, I feel like inclusivity is such a major value for a lot of Gen Z. And by almost removing that, you automatically open up the talent pool because they're like, oh great, I can see that this is an inclusive employer. like They don't actually care about degrees. I might have a degree, but I like i have confidence in their culture. And like that's a big tick when you're trying to build an employer brand and appeal to candidates.
Inclusivity in Hiring Practices
00:22:13
Speaker
The second one is feedback. And like there's there is a real issue in the UK with an absence of feedback or poor quality feedback. And again, some you know it's not necessarily a recruiter or a talent acquisition manager's fault with the lack of feedback they might have and hundreds if not thousands of applications to screen through. like They can't possibly provide feedback to everybody. And I feel like the job sports have created this problem. like it's It's so seemingly easy to apply for jobs as a job seeker, but it's also very easy to reject on the other side.
00:22:54
Speaker
But I feel like if if you're going to speak to people, there's a common decency or feedback. And I think it's overlooked just how critical this is to the whole employment ecosystem. If you don't provide that person feed with any feedback, they can't improve for next time, and they are going to continue to apply for some, in some cases, hundreds of jobs, and they still don't know where they are going wrong. And that person that has applied to that job, if you've got some like really critical feedback of they, you know, they didn't do this, they didn't do, or like this was an issue, they they showed up without a top on.
00:23:36
Speaker
but could that I've heard of that happening. But if you don't tell that person and for next time, they're going to continue showing up to interviews without a top on, without realizing that that is an issue. And if everybody took a bit of time, just half an hour of your day to just send a couple of sentences of Look, it's an issue that you're not wearing a top. It's inappropriate, like just a reference for next time. You could not only change that person's life, but you're making the next recruiter's life easier. And that will come full circle back to you. This is about sustainability. So like those are those are the like dropping your screening criteria, opening up the talent pool.
00:24:18
Speaker
And taking the time to give people a better candidate experience is what is going to create better sustainability. Yeah. and And what I'm hearing is it kind of sounds like we have in some cases mass produced job searching, mass produced the ability to apply to jobs. Um, and then on the receiving end, those who are getting all those applications recruiters are like overwhelmed with the volume that they have to get through. And so they're using the few signaling things that they do have, which is maybe a degree from a good university. Um, I listened to a really great podcast or it might've been, um, kind of an audio series from Malcolm Gladwell.
00:24:59
Speaker
um And he talks about how in the US specifically, there are law schools that won't even interview if you're not even from these top 10 schools. Well, to get in the top 10 school, you have to just be really good at taking the LSAT. It has nothing to do with, are you actually that good at being a lawyer? What you learn in law school. um And so it's like, can you get into the program is the only thing because you're more likely to survive once you get in the program. And so the competitive nature of like, Are you just good at taking a standardized test? Is what we're really screening on a CV? Yeah, is what we're looking at. yeah like Writing like a good resume like is evidence that you're good at writing a good resume.
00:25:43
Speaker
So unless you're hiring somebody to write resumes, why would you consider that to be evidence that they're going to be good at the job? So even somebody that's interviewing, like that's evidence that they're good good at interviewing. Is that evidence that they're actually going to great job so it sounds like if i'm hearing you correctly sophie we need to challenge employers and recruiters to do a little bit of the uh candidate assessment that's more in line with skills that are more in line with the reality of the job that they would be doing i know
00:26:15
Speaker
I've got a friend a few friends right now job searching, as we all kind of are, all
Advocating for Skill-Based Assessments
00:26:19
Speaker
the time. um And the assignments, right? like i that There's like the doling out of assignments after you get through like just the resume portion. And I feel like the assignment actually would be more important and indicative of if the person can do the job. like this One of my friends was looking at a sales role, and they're like, write a cold sales email, or like an email that would at least generate a phone call with a prospective client. To me, If I'm hiring a salesperson, that seems like it would be more important than what like, yeah, I want to know kind of like who you work for, but I can see that on your LinkedIn. Can't I not? And so I'm like, I think I would rather know, like, OK, show me how you perform and not tell me how you perform. Right. And I think that there's a lot of things that employers could probably be doing as we look at this younger generation, because I think you pointed out there's so many opportunities for
00:27:08
Speaker
developing a really good cover letter or a resume that does highlight your, your experiences, but really is just, I don't want to say AI generated, like it's a bad thing, but it's been run through AI to make sure it passes through the screening systems that we all know exist. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's so many industries that have always been based on skills. like if you if you want to get into acting you have to audition you don't just like write on a piece of paper I'm really good at acting and then get the job so like why I don't understand why this hasn't been like more widely adopted as a screening measure for other
00:27:54
Speaker
industries and what we and sometimes I see I see on LinkedIn a lot of challenge in this like assessment based screening that it's not fair that people should have to go like go to do have to jump through another hope but for me like it's a replacement um and ultimately if you're going to commit to providing feedback as a consequence if they're going to get something out of it I don't believe that it detracts from the candidate experience at all. In fact, what we have with our processes is people almost using it as a diagnostic tool because so many younger job seekers don't really understand what jobs exist or like what what the day-to-day actually entails. I mean, who knows like who knows that, especially if it's your first job? It's such alien territory.
00:28:47
Speaker
they will do our assessments and then be like, oh, that's just that's not what I thought it would be. Self deselected as a consequence of said, oh, actually, no, I don't like working on spreadsheets every day. Cool. Don't apply to those sorts of jobs, then, you know, at least you get to find this out sooner rather than later. Well, yeah. And I think that you bring up the the demystifying element of thinking one thing. um And then the fact that like what is actually involved in a job is sometimes not super clear. like People will be like, I'll use finance. My husband's in finance. like He works in financial analytics. and like But he's not saying they're crunching. He is crunching numbers, but it's not your typical, like let me do finance, like banking. right People will be like, I'm going to go into business. where like That's a gigantic umbrella. what
00:29:37
Speaker
function of business, are you going to be in there? I think I want to do marketing. And then you have to even slice that up a little bit further. And you're like, what kind of marketing? Like, do you want to do strategic communications? Are you doing media? Are you doing just pure brand management? There's so many different things. And trying to navigate all of that and being like, and then I'm going to go get years of experience so that I can get an entry level job that is likely underpaying me. It's a lot for a young person. And then at the same time, we're like, develop your whole brain and your identity and find a way to navigate and allow that to be ah professionally appropriate. It's a lot to put on young people, and I'm not going to say like what was them, but the I think the unspoken expectations that we put in front of people make it very cumbersome for people to figure it out. I also think
Embracing Career Flexibility and Networking
00:30:25
Speaker
there's a way that, it i I think that young people get painted as
00:30:31
Speaker
Oh, they're job hopping. They're not loyal, but they're really just trying to pay their bills, right? Like we all are. And so they're going to take the first few jobs that they can get because they have jobs. need to sell Yeah, they've got bills to pay. And so I don't think that we need to fault someone for being at a job for a year or two and realizing this wasn't the best fit for me. I did learn i hate spreadsheets, right? Like they learned they hated spreadsheets and they want a non spreadsheet job. Nothing wrong with that. It shouldn't be penalized because they figure out what they like and and don't like doing. you Like that's fair enough. And so sometimes, and I think that it's a lot for some businesses to get their heads around this. I think that there's still a bit of an assumption that people that do job hop or move
00:31:17
Speaker
like jobs frequently are going to be disloyal. But back to what I was saying earlier, like is is that a bad thing? Or are they just empowered? like are they Maybe they've added like tons of value in that year or two years that they were there. Maybe then moving on could be a good thing for your business because it means that you get to bring in somebody fresh, like somebody with new perspective. Maybe like you've been a platform for their career. Maybe you've been a springboard. Maybe they're going to be a future client and they're going to be coming back to you because they're like, oh, that marketing agency that I first went to was an amazing like amazing business and they have amazing people.
00:31:55
Speaker
Maybe they're like, they're so ambitious that they're then like the CMO at an amazing brand and they're like looking for marketing agencies and they've come full circle because you offered such an amazing employment experience to that individual. Like how are things a bad thing? I think that there's a little bit of personal pride and not to knock employers and organizations, but I think there's a little bit of personal pride and we I think that we all need to just forget the idea that people are lifers at their jobs anymore. and being completely okay with being pit stops or being stops along the way in people's like ah career journeys, but the reality is people don't work the same job like they used to for 50 years and retire. Exactly. and I think the frustration, it's a lot easier to be like, oh, they're disloyal. Instead of just saying, we were part of their journey for the time that we are part of their journey and we wish them the best of luck and we are glad to have been a part of that journey. know
00:32:51
Speaker
and I think that ah it's easier to place the frustration because like when you do have turnover, it is complicated. right like You got to hire new people, you got to train new people, you got to get them on board, you got to get them like up to speed. and so There is this constant churn of our HR professionals are probably like, yeah, we know. um But there's a constant churn of having to manage talent. and That's why that's people's full jobs is making sure that people are coming in, they're getting trained, and hopefully they're staying for a long time. But fit is so important. I know I've
00:33:22
Speaker
had team members on, i you know, they haven't been a good fit and you want them to find their good fit because you want to be working with people that are a good fit for you as well. And I think that that's like, there's this like mutual understanding of like sometimes the fit just erodes and it's nobody's real fault. Like there needs to be some changes. And so I think there's a lot of mental work um from an employer and a leader side that we can be taking from all of this as well. Now let's talk a little bit about Gen Z and the potential advice that you have. I know you've got a great community. You've said 3,000 young people that are in your community, which is fantastic as they're trying to think about defining and advancing their career path. There's more members of Gen Z beyond the 3,000. So there might be some that are listening that are probably wondering what some of the advice that you might have is as they're thinking about defining their career path. What would you tell
00:34:19
Speaker
ah the young people today as they're trying to figure this out. You know what I think it goes it goes back to that sort of squiggly career and like figuring things out and just trying things. So we actually have our own podcast as well and one of the best pieces of advice that came came out of it um in a previous episode was just say yes. Because you like you don't know what what doors could open as a consequence. of consequence like Nothing negative is typically gonna happen if if you give something a go. And it might, like if if you find the, you meet somebody and they're like, oh, like we're looking for some administrative support in our company or something, would you be open to it? It might not seem like your dream career. It might not be for a big sexy brand.
00:35:11
Speaker
it might like It might have some mundane administrative tasks involved in the job, but you will learn something. you will learn what you like doing you might learn what you don't like doing you might meet some interesting people you will build your network like you will understand what like what cultures you align with most like where your values are you'll you'll figure out like you'll learn about the frustrations of working with different people and different personalities and you'll think well that pet I can't handle working with those sorts of people I love working with these sorts of people and this is all a learning curve and once you've sort of done that first step everything
00:35:51
Speaker
does somewhat get easier because you've got like, you've started to build up your own personal values and motivations and you're like, okay, well, this part I love, this part I love less, so how can I how can i do more of this? So i I think that that's like, that's one critical part. The other part which I have probably massively underestimated through my career is your network. And it's not something that I have ever placed a huge amount of importance on actually until I set up my own business. The only time I ever really posted on LinkedIn was to just like put a job update or something. I like i went on it but like just
00:36:37
Speaker
just to read what other people posted. And I've always had, like I don't really use social media, so I have a massive social media anxiety. um But setting up my own business, like I was like, right, I need to break through this anxiety because I see how like content can be really powerful and actually like um how networking could be really beneficial for me. And I see so many parallels with growing entrepreneurship and growing a business as I do, like looking for a job. I've met so many phenomenal people on LinkedIn. I like people that want to support me. And I like some of those people have ended up becoming my customers. Some of them have ended up being my investors. um A lot of them are just cheering me on from the sidelines.
00:37:33
Speaker
And it's actually quite an empowering space to be. What I have learned is that like one conversation can change everything. And if you are in a job, seat if you're a job seeker and or you're thinking about like what you're going to do as a career, just speak to as many people as you possibly can. And for some young people, that's incredibly overwhelming. I found it overwhelming. because it's a bit alien territory, isn't it? Just speaking to the strangers. But the more that you do it, the more that you'll gain confidence. And there's so many people out there that really want to help. like though they feel It makes them feel good. People that are further along in their career journey. They really, really want to help because chances are they probably had a really like really negative experience when they were first starting out and they wish they'd have more help.
00:38:23
Speaker
And there is that support out there. So find mentors, build a network. Go go to in-person networking events and stuff like this. like build Build up. go with a fret If you see an event, go with a friend. and try like just try and do what you can, set set a target and say, right, I'm going to connect with three people at this event and just just go for it. And you could make those three contacts and then leave, but at least you've done something and like these are all really great stepping stones to get it like so even just figuring out what you want to do. um In fact, really scary statistic is that like I think it's 70 to 80% of jobs
00:39:04
Speaker
aren't publicly promoted. And that is because of networking. So actually, like it could get you a job as well. I think that's so important. the um I think it's yes, it's the who you know, but then it's also how you keep up with them um about of the network. And it's not like you can, I'm not saying you have to like foster that kind of stuff every single day of your life. But um I'm a big fan of LinkedIn. So you can be my friend on LinkedIn. um But it is actually I have friends that I have friends, you know, I put quotes around that because like I've actually never met them in person. They've just been really good supporters and people on LinkedIn and ah who want to see you succeed. I find that it is actually a place that when you
00:39:49
Speaker
buy into it, you're a part of it, you actually engage with it. um Their platform, and the algorithm feeds good things to you. um It's one of the few that I actually trust um to feed me the things that I need. But I think that you're absolutely right. The concept of most jobs are kind of like who you know, right? Like that phrase is so applicable. Right? It doesn't make it okay. And we're trying to break down those barriers for people. But that's not gonna change overnight. ye Yep. And I think that that that element of the network is so important because you know you you're right. You can go to that networking event and you meet the three people and that's fantastic. That's three more people you than you knew going into it. um And it might not be a job immediately, but sometimes jobs come six months down the road and they're like, oh yeah, I didn't need that really nice soands so-and-so.
00:40:40
Speaker
this event, I wonder what they're up to. The only way they can get ahold of you is if you had a business card, which like I lose those all the time, um if you exchange your contact information. But realistically, LinkedIn is a great way. If you're like, hey, we had this job pop up, you might be interested. and file yeah like Yeah. So young people, all people, people of all ages, make sure you're on your LinkedIn and it is updated. Well, Sophie, we are about at our time. There's been a lot of great things that you shared. I think there's so many wonderful things that you've shared about kind of bringing the human element back to job searching, the element of ah being okay with swiggly lines and career exploration that isn't linear.
00:41:19
Speaker
um But when you think about Generation Z and the and the young people that you're working with, which I'm so glad that they've got you in this community of people that can look to you for that support. um But what is your favorite thing about Gen Z? Oh, ah for sure, like their standards. Like they they are the generation with the highest standards of of anybody else. In fact, I was at an event yesterday and I was um on a panel with two young girls ah who, well, young women who were, and they proactively chose not to go to university and they're doing apprenticeships and they're a year into their apprenticeship. So I think they're in their early twenties, if that. And they were phenomenal. And we were talking about how the world of work should be.
00:42:15
Speaker
and what they see as being good workplaces. And the things that came up, they were so eloquent in how they say it, so passionate, so composed. And it was about flexibility. It was about mental health and wellbeing. It was about inclusion. It was about work-life balance. It was about leadership. And it's like, yeah. I can't argue, like, nobody can argue with any of these things. And if these are the demands that they have, and ultimately, like, there's there's loads of research out there that shows that not only are these things better for our mental health, not only do they build great workplaces, but they ultimately lead to better economic outcomes. They also lead to better brain health, which means better productivity.
00:43:13
Speaker
Like this is actually beneficial for the world of work to implement these sorts of standards. And I'm like, if these are the people that are gonna lead, be our future leaders, then that's pretty great. Yeah, and as much as I 100% agree with you, I think that when I think about what you've shared with you know these these young women in Gen Z, what they're asking for doesn't just make it like better just
Gen Z's Workplace Standards
00:43:43
Speaker
for them. It makes it better for all of us. right like There's nothing wrong with having proactive mental health support and like mental health practice within the workplace. There's nothing wrong with having good boundaries. There's nothing wrong with having good leadership for everyone in the workplace. But I always say if the youngest people in our society are shouting it, we probably need to take a listen yeah because it's probably the most honest, unbiased, un unfiltered truth at this time.
00:44:10
Speaker
um And so I love that not only does Gen Z have those standards, like if people are like, their standards are too high, I'm like, maybe raise your standards. Like, I don't want to tell you um besides they're onto something. But if Gen Z has high standards, there's a reason for it. And I think it's actually over time going to make us all better because of it. so Yes. Well, Sophie, it has been so wonderful to spend time with you and learn a little bit more about what you're doing to help young people have better clarity and feel empowered in going into their career search and their job search and career development. I think it's so important that we continually get back
00:44:47
Speaker
um in that we're doing great things um as older generations can help influence younger generations and what that means. Not just for good having good empowering careers, but as you pointed out, it's just good for the economy. It's good for the world. um So, Sophie, thank you so much. If people want to follow along with the great work that you're doing, where can they find you? Obviously on LinkedIn, um but what are are some other places that people might be able to follow along with the great work you're doing? So you can follow Pollen Careers on LinkedIn, on Instagram, and on TikTok. I think for all of them, it's just at Pollen Careers. Wonderful. Well, Sophie, thank you again for being here. It has been fantastic to learn with you and be able to share some of these insights. Amazing. Thank you so much, Megan.
00:45:36
Speaker
Another thank you to Sophie O'Brien for sharing some important insights on the landscape that Gen Z is navigating when it comes to career development and job searching. While recruiters and hiring organizations cannot change the entire industry overnight, there are some strategies that can be employed to better attract Gen Z job seekers. First, aim for inclusivity in the process. This can look like examining screening processes and identifying some practices that might be leading to the exclusion of some quality candidates. Second, be intentional about providing some sort of feedback to candidates. This can provide a human touch that can make a big impact. Even just a sentence or two can help job seekers in their next round of searching. And third, once talent is hired, be okay with being a pit stop on someone's career journey. The days of employees getting a job that they're going to do for the entirety of their career are is gone.
00:46:28
Speaker
Some people might be there for a year or two, but that time can be critical in the experience and can be an opportunity for organizations to create an ambassador for the future. Sophie also shared some strategies that Gen Z job seekers can employ when they're exploring careers. First, it's okay to have your career look like a squiggly line. In fact, most people actually do. And second, be intentional about building and fostering your network. LinkedIn is a great place to do this. LinkedIn's often seen as a place where you can just find jobs or potentially just have a profile and you provide infrequent life updates. However, there's so many people that are on the site that are ready to cheer you on, connect with you, share important content, and provide help in your career journey.
00:47:14
Speaker
So be sure to reach out to people that you might know on LinkedIn or establish connections with people who you might be interested in learning more from. So I want to thank you for tuning into this episode. Whether you are looking to hire a Gen-Zer or you're a Gen-Zer looking for a job, I hope you walk away with something that you can integrate into your professional life. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. More episodes are on the way, so subscribing is actually the best way to ensure you don't miss episodes when new ones become available. And speaking of those new episodes, I'm always looking for new topics to explore and guests to have a chat with. So if you have a suggestion, I now have a pitch form on my website and you can find it at meganmgrace dot.com slash podcast. That's M-E-G-H-A-N-M-G-R-A-C-E dot com slash podcast. This episode was edited by Leah Kramer, the Gen Zer behind the scenes bringing this podcast to life.
00:48:13
Speaker
So thank you again for stopping by. Let's continue this conversation and we'll chat soon.