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Gen Z at Work
1.3k Plays1 year ago
Welcome back! Season 5 is here and we're diving into the world of work with Generation Z. This episode features an interview with Dr. Corey Seemiller, generational expert and co-lead of the Institute of Generational Research and Education. We kick off this season with a deep dive into the findings from our research on Generation Z over the last decade related to how they view work and the themes that employers need to be paying attention to.
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Transcript
Introduction to Hashtag Gen Z
00:00:06
Speaker
This is hashtag Gen Z, a podcast that explores Generation Z, who they are, how they're different from other generations, while also being an incredible blend of those who came before them. We explore what they think is cool, what moves them, and why they do what they do. I'm your host, Megan Grace. If you're just joining us, welcome. It's so nice to have you with us. A quick bit about me.
Megan Grace's Background
00:00:27
Speaker
I'm a generational researcher and the co-lead of the Institute for Generational Research and Education. For the last nearly 10 years,
00:00:35
Speaker
I've been studying and writing about Generation Z. And for the last four years specifically, I've been featuring the stories and experiences of members of Gen Z and those who impact their lives through this podcast. This podcast has always been a way to explore the research trends that I see through our study in a way that pairs data to the lived experiences of others.
00:00:57
Speaker
And for all my social science friends out there, interviews are a form of research data. So this is just a fun little research journey that we've all been on together. So here we are. We're diving into
Gen Z Maturation and New Season Focus
00:01:07
Speaker
season five. That's right. This is year five. It has been a ride so far. We've looked at so many topics in the last five years, and I can't wait to get things going for what we have in store for this season.
00:01:18
Speaker
In many ways, it feels like through this podcast, we've learned about Gen Z and have watched them grow up because they absolutely have. We use the age range for Generation Z to be those born between 1995 and 2010, which means the oldest in Generation Z are turning 28 this year. With the oldest solidly into their young adult years at this point, this also means they're navigating the world of work and what it means to build a career. So that is where we're headed this season.
00:01:46
Speaker
Generation Z is going to work and we're going to learn alongside with them. In this episode, I feature my research partner and co-author Dr.
Introduction of Dr. Corey C. Miller
00:01:53
Speaker
Corey C. Miller. We dive into some findings from our most recent study on Gen Z, which was a global study that engaged over 27,000 members of Generation Z around the world. In this study, we asked about what Gen Z hopes for in their future career, along with how they describe themselves and their greatest concerns.
00:02:10
Speaker
which we've got a great conversation in store to share all about that. So a bit more about Corey. Dr. Corey C. Miller is an award-winning professor in the Department of Leadership Studies in education and organizations at Wright State University. Corey also serves as my partner in leading the Institute for Generational Research and Education, a nonprofit with the mission of fostering greater understanding and collaboration between generations.
00:02:35
Speaker
Corey is a prominent voice, not only in generational research, but leadership development and higher education. She consults with companies and is a speaker all over the world. And I certainly am so lucky to be able to learn with her through our research and the incredible collaboration we've had over the last 10 years. So please help me in welcoming Corey back to this episode.
00:02:59
Speaker
Well, Corey, welcome back. It's another season of hashtag Gen Z. It's tradition now that you joined me for this first episode and very exciting because we, you know, as we talked about in the teaser, we've been working on a lot of new stuff, new studies that we haven't really talked about, and then we're writing a lot. But career and workplace is a focus of
Evolving Career Landscape for Gen Z
00:03:20
Speaker
it.
00:03:20
Speaker
And so I'm very excited to have you here to kind of help kick off this season and really set the frame for what we're gonna be chatting about. And so, first of all, welcome back. How have you been? Good, busy. You know, with all of our projects, we tend to say yes to almost everything, which is great and fun, but gives us a lot to do. So I'm really excited to be able to talk about all that we're doing and take a break from doing all that we're doing.
00:03:45
Speaker
Yes, that's what I also enjoy about being able to have you every season kind of kick this off is we don't get time to reflect and talk about our findings and kind of think about what are, you know, really like this blue sky thinking we don't get to do a lot, especially in the same space. You and I might be writing together, we might be designing the study together, but we're very task oriented people. And I think it's good for us to like slow down and think about where we're at with things. And it's just really an interesting time because as I've been thinking more about this,
00:04:14
Speaker
Gen Z is like very in their careers, like more than half are either in college or have completed college and are in their careers. And so it's just really front of mind for especially the older half of Gen Z, but we can't discount the younger ones, right? Aren't thinking about their future careers either. And so I would love to, I mean, I know a bit about this, but I don't think our listeners do share a bit more about
00:04:38
Speaker
The findings that we had in our 2021 study, our global study around career and can you just walk us through what we kind of found in that study and how that is kind of setting the tone for Gen Z and where they're at right now in life.
00:04:54
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, you know what's really neat as a researcher, and you know, you can attest to this too, is that when you find similar findings over a course of different studies over time, it creates some kind of validation of, you know, really the strength of that finding.
00:05:11
Speaker
And we started looking at careers and perspectives on careers. We were really surveying back in 2014, like 17 and 18 year olds and asking them kind of what they wanted to be when they grew up and what was important. And then we've gone on and done several studies where we're asking people what is important to you now, now that you're actually
Gen Z's Search for Value-Aligned Work
00:05:27
Speaker
working. So some of our
00:05:28
Speaker
are Gen Z or as you mentioned are out in the workforce. So we're finding a lot of the same kinds of things that are coming up and what's also fascinating about it is that some of our earlier studies obviously were pre-pandemic and then we had a 2021 study which was sort of smack in the middle of pandemic time and again the findings are really consistent. So
00:05:47
Speaker
Overall, we're seeing that Gen Zers want to find work that is meaningful, that contributes to the greater world around them, that they feel happy in a workplace and around their colleagues, that they have some flexibility in at least when and where they work, if they can, if at all possible.
00:06:06
Speaker
and that they want to basically have a sense of loyalty to an employer or a job or an organization or even an industry if they feel like that is giving back to them and they feel kind of this mutual kind of favorability. But I think you know all of it is summed up by kind of one real essence of Gen Z in the workforce which is
00:06:28
Speaker
wanting values based work. I want to do something that aligns with what I care about in an organization or in an industry of something that I care about to advance something that I care about. And that is really telling when it comes time for Gen Zers to pick their career fields, when it comes time for them to pick places to work and whether or not they stay in those places. I think the big question is it's going to be right what you said.
00:06:54
Speaker
what is going to attract Gen Z to a career field or a career or a company, an industry and what's going to make them stay. And some of my guests throughout the season will probably help us answer that question. But I think when I'm, you know, kind of the things that I keep hearing about is like,
00:07:11
Speaker
Gen Z has no loyalty, which I find so funny because in our global study, the number one thing that they describe themselves as in almost every region of the world is loyal, but you won't like get loyalty without investment, right? Like I can't be loyal and committed to you as my research partner without many years of trust and team building and working together. So it's this interesting kind of interplay that companies are like, well, kids don't want to work. Nobody wants to be here and they're just going to leave. Well, are we investing in them?
00:07:41
Speaker
to say, we want you to be here. We want you to stay committed. We want you to stay loyal. And I think that Gen Z is going to continue to kind of push this mindset around like the transactional nature of work. If you're just going to promise me a paycheck, I'm going to just do the paycheck work, but I'm also not going to feel bad about leaving. And I don't think that's really a bad thing. It's just they might be doing that at a much younger age where some people might've not developed that confidence until they were 30, 40, 50 to say, I don't need to be doing this. It's not filling my cup.
00:08:11
Speaker
I think that that is something we're going to be a lot of. Quite a bit. A lot of.
Employer-Employee Loyalty Dynamics
00:08:16
Speaker
And it's really interesting because, you know, you know, you and I take kind of a sociological kind of look at generations, you know, people just don't fall from the sky with perspectives and behaviors that come from nowhere. And, you know, you look at your generation, you know, you look at my generation, you look at older people's generations and you say, they came of age in a time in which
00:08:33
Speaker
Organizations did, to some extent, fulfill their promises back to them. So we have a track record of sort of expecting loyalty from an employer because we've seen it. And particularly if you go back to like the 1950s, they had pensions and they had all sorts of things. The whole goal was to keep good people and do whatever they want. And over time, it's become very transactional. And not every organization, but a lot of them say, well, you're just replaceable. You leave, I'm going to hire someone with less experience and less pay. I'm going to fill your job. So maybe you do leave great.
00:09:03
Speaker
And Gen Zers are starting their careers thinking, why would I give you my loyalty if you're not going to give it back to me? So they're like the one generation that hasn't really seen a lot of reciprocated loyalty in ways that especially much older generations have. So you can't really expect them to just give everything to someone who hasn't proven to you that they're going to give anything back to you.
00:09:25
Speaker
I think that's really like sometimes I love when we have are able to have this conversation because as you spent a lot of time in the analysis of our like career findings, I spent a lot of time in their social concerns.
Influences on Gen Z's Career Considerations
00:09:36
Speaker
And I did like that thematic coding around this is kind of related to this umbrella concept and two of the umbrella concepts that came up. It was kind of you. I don't necessarily know if unique but more refined in this study was Gen Z's concern for safety and security.
00:09:52
Speaker
And the way that they framed it was accessible and affordable housing, being able to retire one day, access to health care. These are all things that people think about when they're kind of determining what they're going to do with their career, right? Will I be able to access health care through my employer? That's a transaction, right? But that's something that they're considering
00:10:15
Speaker
as they're building their career, how are they going to have access to some of these things? And this is a bit obviously US centric in the sense that some countries, they don't have to worry about employer based health care because it is socialized or government funded. But I think that's an interesting thing that I had not thought about was the ways that their underlying concerns, like their social concerns will have an influence on the way that they're looking and choosing careers.
00:10:40
Speaker
And yeah, it makes complete sense. But it's something that I wasn't like that when you brought up like the idea of transaction, when I think of safety and security within a job, it almost has the same undertone as loyalty, like I feel loyal to this company, it's secure, it is safe.
00:10:57
Speaker
That is the mindset of when people became teachers forever ago, they're like, well, I like this job and I'm getting paid a pretty good amount and I'm going to get a pension and I have good health insurance and it's a relatively safe job. And now you look at the profession of teaching and if you make it to getting your pension, you're like, wow, you have seen the world of teaching because that is a long, long, long-term investment and that loyalty investment I think is really big.
00:11:26
Speaker
Well, yeah, and even if there even is a pension right now, I mean, you're getting to a point, even over my career, I've seen such changes in this kind of safety and security. So it's not just pay as stagnant, right? I was reading an article yesterday that said that if inflation and minimum wage had been lockstep, we'd be at a $24 an hour minimum wage today.
Modern Work's Transactional Nature
00:11:45
Speaker
So we're not even looking at the safety and security that wages provide.
00:11:48
Speaker
Look at things like health care. My health care has changed over the last 20 years in the workforce. Now when you go get a new job at a lot of places, they make you wait three or even six months before they'll even put you on a health care plan. What kind of person who would take that kind of risk if they had an alternative to be uninsured for six months? And you can't even get any kind of COBRA coverage if you're a new employee and you haven't come from an organization.
00:12:09
Speaker
There's other places where it used to be that they would automatically match your retirement savings because they don't have a pension. And now you've got to wait five years sometimes for vesting. And so this idea of safety and security is, are you really taking care of me? You're not paying me the wage. You're not taking care of my benefits. I mean, I've even talked to people who are like, oh yeah, my organization just cut dental benefits. They just didn't see them as significant.
00:12:32
Speaker
And it's just like, what in the world? And then of course, driving housing costs and all that stuff. And then you ask Gen Zers to go into what we would consider non-recession proof jobs.
00:12:45
Speaker
you know, turning around and saying, well, your job might not even exist in five years. It's just, it's a difficult thing. And then, you know, on the front end of that is, you know, a lot of like 17, 18 year olds who are considering college or technical school or any kind of additional training are investing financially into that, hoping that that will take care of them for the rest of their lives. And that choice is really huge. And they're usually making it before they're even considered technically an adult.
00:13:09
Speaker
and then have to come up with all this money. So they're just at a crossroads that I don't think that any of the rest of us can actually articulate or understand in a way that they do. And we're sitting kind of from these pews of, well, I own a house and I have a job and I have health insurance, and kind of looking at young people and being like, well, they don't want to work. Well, I don't know that I would have wanted to work if I came of age into a professional life that is structured very similarly to where we're at today.
00:13:36
Speaker
Absolutely. I think that there's this element in this underlying component of uncertainty. I know that we saw that in the analysis we were doing. I've seen it in some other workplace studies around like Gen Z is heavily concerned about like an era of uncertainty. And I think that that is completely valid. Like because we've seen these very, whether they're working
00:14:02
Speaker
there are not. We've seen, especially in the last two years, just industries just get toppled and flipped upside down. Like you look what's going on in the tech sector right now. And they did kind of anticipate that. Like everything kind of runs in cycles. But if we're told as young people become a computer coder, understand how the internet works, understand how technology works. You'll get a good job at Google. You'll get a good job at Twitter. You'll get a good job at one of these tech companies. And then you see these massive layoffs and freezes at places like Amazon.
00:14:31
Speaker
I would be concerned too, like if the message that I'm being told is learn computers, learn internet. There's a level of uncertainty that I think is completely fair with this generation.
00:14:42
Speaker
I really just wonder kind of what are some of the main themes that you think employers specifically should be thinking about and keeping an eye on from what we found, what you found in other spaces as we've been kind of working on some new projects, which we'll get to in a minute. But what do you think are some things that employers need to be thinking about, whether they're attracting or trying to retain Gen Z?
00:15:04
Speaker
Well, I mean, one of the biggest drivers of Gen Z's choices, aside from what we talked about, the security, particularly the financial security, because one of our biggest findings was that they don't necessarily indicate wanting to be really wealthy.
Importance of Meaningful Work for Gen Z
00:15:17
Speaker
They just want to make enough money to be able to pay their bills and live kind of what they consider kind of a good life. That's a lot of what they say.
00:15:23
Speaker
So it comes down to something else besides wages and benefits. It comes down to, again, the values. Do the values of the organization, do the practices of the organization, and does the job itself align with things that would make that person happy, excited, fulfilled, and have a sense of meaning. And so I think employers need to do a better job of being able to say, OK, well, here's a job description. You're going to work 10 hours a week doing these spreadsheets, and you're going to do five hours a week doing this.
00:15:49
Speaker
It's instead of saying, here's what our organization stands for. And you, being a part of this organization, are going to advance XYZ. You are going to be a part of something bigger. And you are going to change the world. And almost every industry and almost every organization
00:16:05
Speaker
You know, you can probably find some kind of contribution, societal contribution. And so, you know, some of them are really obvious. We know things like teaching or, you know, medicine, those kind of things that have the obvious kind of altruistic factor in them. But there's a lot of other things that we don't think about, like we don't think about, you know, someone who
00:16:23
Speaker
you know, worked in particularly retail during the pandemic. They, I mean, they literally saved lives, right? Like these people risk their own lives to go and stock shelves and load Amazon trucks to make sure people got food and medicine during the pandemic. I mean, talk about really tying to the values of making a difference. And employers just need to do a better job of articulating what
00:16:44
Speaker
what employees are going to be able to do to have that fulfillment and that meaning. But that also goes the same with retention, is you can't be lip service. Gen Zers see through all those websites and fake brochures of who's on the cover. And they want transparent organizations. They want organizations that say, hey, we screwed up. We're going to fix this.
00:17:07
Speaker
Not, we screwed, we didn't screw up. No, no, someone else's fault. We're not going to talk about it. They don't want to work for places that can't own their own mistakes. So if, you know, you're in an organization, you botch something up, Gen Z is forgiving, but they want to know like, what are we as an organization going to do to make this right and fix this? And so you see Gen Z or sometimes jump and ship of places. I don't want to work for places that are doing things that don't feel in alignment with their values, whether that's in recruitment phase or that's in a retention phase.
00:17:35
Speaker
Absolutely agree. This idea of what's the point of this place is really a thing that I think Gen Z is going to ask, right? In its most simple terms. I think a theme that I keep seeing come up a lot is what is the role of well-being and wellness in the workplace? Considering especially in America, we spend so much time at work.
00:17:56
Speaker
And some of us work from home. And so where do you have those boundaries and those like, how do you define wellness? And I think Gen Z is, this is not just that like Gen Z is experiencing it. I've kind of always said that if Gen Z is saying it the loudest, it's actually probably something that benefits all of us. And so with Gen Z being these very, I think positively loud advocates for mental wellbeing and physical wellbeing and just holistic wellbeing.
00:18:24
Speaker
bringing that into the workspace, I think is something that they will continue to, I would say challenge in a good way, companies and organizations and employers to realizing that we're human and it's impossible to just turn your emotions off when you go to work fully,
Wellness and Mental Health in the Workplace
00:18:41
Speaker
right? Like you can try to set it aside for a little bit, but like the reality is as many people, especially Gen Z is waking up and saying,
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah, I have to do work, but I also am a human and I live a life. And if I'm having a bad mental health day or a bad mental health stint, I need to prioritize that because I don't live to work.
00:19:00
Speaker
Like that's not what my life is about. And so I think that's something that employers are probably gonna keep an eye on, just that whether they want to or not, Gen Z is very comfortable talking about wellness and especially mental wellbeing. That if we're not comfortable talking about something that has been historically been uncomfortable in the role that workplace either aids or creates even bigger problems in our mental wellbeing, I think employers are gonna see that struggle. And that's just my prediction. I think we're already seeing it.
00:19:28
Speaker
There's really some interesting, really cool studies that have been done in the last, I would say, few months that I've been able to kind of pick up on and will share about in some of our new stuff. But Gen Z is, they're definitely at the forefront of advocating for that. And I think that we'll all be better employees, better, you know, workers, better teammates because of what they're doing.
00:19:48
Speaker
Yeah, well, you know, to add on to that too, and you're talking about the mental health is, you know, for Gen Zers, you know, recognizing their own mental health needs and then being able to articulate that or be able to have that kind of embraced in the workplace. The other part of it is on the workplace end of it with cutbacks, layoffs, budget, you know, reductions, all of that stuff where people are doing sometimes two times or three times the workload. And then, you know, they're told, Oh, well, we have this like employee hotline, you can call for counseling support. It's like,
00:20:14
Speaker
Well, you know, you're someone spending eight or 10 hours a day at a job, and they're so incredibly stressed because their job is making their mental well being and their emotional and even physical well being compromised. And then, you know, and that's the cause of it. So sometimes we see the workplaces where they go where they already have a cause from somewhere else. But our workplaces are toxic workplaces where things aren't addressed effectively.
00:20:35
Speaker
We we lack, you know diversity equity and inclusion policies where people don't feel welcome and safe and authentic in their workspaces They work for bosses that are not held accountable for being for a bad behavior And again, they're working in places where they're overworked and underpaid and then you're like, oh well Why do you have you know, like why do you have well-being issues? you know like and so part of it is the structure of the organizations themselves and really recalibrating and I know that with you know, I
00:20:59
Speaker
With money, everybody's always looking to get more with less from their employees. And we're at a crossroads here where there are industries that are going to falter, completely collapse if they continue to work their employees to the ground because Gen Zers are just not going to go take those jobs and people who are in them are going to phase out over time and industries will die. So there has to be a recalibration at some point for the health and wellness of not just people but society in general.
00:21:27
Speaker
I agree. I think it's really interesting cause there's kind of this movement, um, around like not calling human resources, human resources, because they're like, our humans are not resources, they're people. So I'm a director of people. And I think like you said, I've returned, you need to, but like, I think human resources, like let's recognize the humanity actually. Like these are people, they are resources to do jobs in our company. There's nothing wrong with that. If we're also recognizing the humanity of like, when you show up to work, you're still a human.
00:21:57
Speaker
You still have things that go on. You still have issues that if you have a tough family situation, that is something that's very hard to be like, I'm going to turn this off right now and I'm just going to do my little data job, right? Like it's impossible to do that because humans are not wired to do that. And so like, I think it's completely fine to call it human resources. If you want to call it vice president of people or whatever, that's great. But it's like,
00:22:21
Speaker
at its core, if we're going to talk with the practice of human resources, especially for Gen Z, it's recognizing that they are literally humans. Like we are all humans. We are not little cogs in machines. So I think there's going to be, as you pointed out, a big reckoning around this, like investment in the employee and Gen Z is just going to be like at the front line saying, we don't need to buy into your nonsense if you're unwilling to buy into who we are and you're unwilling to buy in to us as people, like as literal
Gen Z Thriving in Supportive Workplaces
00:22:49
Speaker
humans. So,
00:22:50
Speaker
Exactly. It'll be interesting. So let's turn a little bit to those in Gen Z and thinking about them as employees, them navigating the workplace. From some of the work that we've done, where do you see that Gen Z is thriving in the world of work? And then on the other end of it, where do you think there might be some additional support needed from either employers, supervisors, or their teammates?
00:23:14
Speaker
Well, you know, as far as thriving, I think that they're going to thrive in any environment where they feel supported and cared about. So, you know, we may find particularly if they can't find that in a traditional organization, finding it in the freelancing world, thriving by saying, I'm going to be my own boss.
00:23:31
Speaker
And I mean, Gen Zers are exponentially, you know, more so likely to be freelancing than other generations, although that number is continuing to close in since COVID because a lot of older generations are saying, I'm kind of done with the organizational, you know, structures of things. I want to go work for myself. And they have years of experience to be able to do that, where Gen Zers might not have a lot of experience and say, I'm just going to start out working for myself.
00:23:52
Speaker
I'm going to thrive in my own environment, even if I have to work longer, harder, and it's more ambiguous and inconsistent paycheck. And even though I'm freaked out about where I'm going to get my money from, I would kind of much rather be in control of my own destiny. So I think we're seeing a lot of thriving in those spaces. I also think that
00:24:12
Speaker
that if you look at it at an organization level, if employers are listening and they want to say like, how can I help Gen Z or thrive here is creating kind of what would almost feel like an intrapreneurship kind of feel like this idea where you can be entrepreneurial, but within an organization where there's a lot of autonomy given a lot of
00:24:28
Speaker
a lot of freedom given to be able to work on projects, have some self-directed and self-learning experiences rather than being micromanaged. You know, remembering that Gen Z is, you know, they're the children of the parental generation of Gen X, primarily, not exclusively, but primarily. And Gen Xers are really autonomous, and they're really, you know, they want to, you know, kind of have their own freedom, do their own thing, and their kids are similar. And that's why Gen Zers, you know, a lot of times want to have that kind of entrepreneurial or entrepreneurial spirit. So I think that's where we're seeing them
00:24:57
Speaker
you know, potential thriving is capturing this, we call like an innovative or entrepreneurial mindset, whether that's in or outside of an organization. Where I see a little bit of, you know, kind of the not thriving is, you know, places where they don't feel valued, places where they don't understand how their work contributes to the greater sense of the world, in places where they can't be authentically themselves and feel included, organizations that aren't transparent and aren't trying to do the right thing,
00:25:24
Speaker
Again, that kind of values misalignment. And then going back to what you were saying, this idea of deciding about which industries to enter as to what might be safe and secure, right? I mean, we've seen a lot of, with those past here, great resignation where a lot of people were walking out of restaurants and not working at restaurants or lower wage jobs because it was like, I can't live off of this.
00:25:50
Speaker
And disproportionately, those are younger people because they tend to be lower paid jobs or entry level jobs. And so where are we seeing them not thriving in industries that aren't setting them up for a future of financial security and of living a life of meaning and value?
00:26:08
Speaker
Absolutely. I definitely, I think I echo so much of that. I think another area where they might need additional support. I don't want to call it a weakness, but an additional support moment is the interpersonal skills. The, what I see, especially from a college perspective is being okay, having like tough conversations in person and then being uncomfortable.
00:26:32
Speaker
Like there's just the reality is that sometimes in work you have to have uncomfortable conversations. Some people call it conflict. Some people call it difficult conversations. There was like 15 different ways that they frame like when you don't feel good about the conversation but you still have to have it or you have to have a conversation with someone you disagree with. Those are still such important interpersonal skills and I don't fault Gen Z for potentially lacking in this area. We have to remember like for many of them three years of their
00:26:59
Speaker
early career years or the end of college, beginning of college, end of high school. And we're really learning how to socialize with other people was cut short and they were at home. And so it was very easy to say, no, I'm not going to have this in-person difficult conversation because they couldn't or they just, it was unavailable to them. And so it comes with practice that you learn how to navigate that uncomfortable conversation.
00:27:24
Speaker
with practice and it feels less uncomfortable over time and become more comfortable with it, if you will. And so I think that's an area where there's a good opportunity for some good old-fashioned interpersonal skill development and just practice because so many of us didn't have that for two to three years.
Development of Interpersonal Skills
00:27:43
Speaker
But it's much harder to contextualize that when you are, let's say, 16 to 24.
00:27:50
Speaker
And you're in that really pivotal timeframe of learning how to interact with peers, learning how to interact with authority figures and leaders and people younger than you and just what is appropriate, right? We're still learning that filtering function. I think that there will be some carryover into the workplace in, in that space, but it's not something that I think is, Oh, these young people are, they're unable to do it. No, I think there's a willingness to want to learn.
00:28:15
Speaker
Yeah, well and as you mentioned that it makes me think too that like the big message here isn't that remote work is bad and that you know like that's the thing too is you know that we need sometimes even more interpersonal skills to do remote work and so the ability to be able to connect through video messaging but then be able to toggle and use a different tone or a different communication style through
00:28:34
Speaker
direct messaging or quick texting versus like a formal email or knowing when to pick up the phone. These are skills that Gen Z particularly wasn't necessarily even taught at great lengths even prior to the pandemic. And then of course the pandemic exacerbated it. So certainly not necessarily for me, I wouldn't be advocating like, okay, well, we just need to get Gen Zers all back in the workplace so they can practice their personal skills. This is a really conscientious decision for employers to say, how do we help
00:29:01
Speaker
help people everyone but particularly younger people with developing kind of cross-platform communication skills because even someone who works in a physical office will still need to make a phone call or still need to send a message or an email or or have a video meeting at some point and so the idea is there's different types of communication and knowing for instance if you're in conflict and if you don't avoid it that is knowing whether or not you should say something in an email versus picking up the phone and talking to somebody or
00:29:29
Speaker
meeting in person with them. And these are skills that would be Gen Z really benefit from to be able to toggle through that. We're only going to get more ways to communicate, not less as we go through time. Absolutely. And I think that I work, you, you work fully remotely. I work fully remotely. Some of the hardest, difficult, like let's say uncomfortable conversations, not with you, but like with in life have been working remotely.
00:29:58
Speaker
You're absolutely right. It's a different type of interpersonal skill. It's a different type of communication that we still have to achieve the same outcomes. I don't know if it would be even better if it's practiced in person, but there have been certain challenges, definitely, that require a different type of training and filtering just as you've mentioned.
00:30:19
Speaker
Corey, this has been, as usual, so interesting, and you and I could talk about this for hours and hours. Two questions. We'll wrap up this first one. It's how I end every episode, but what's your favorite thing about working with Gen Z? I know now that you're still in that faculty and that educational phase, but there's a good chance that we're starting to work with some of them professionally. What do you love the most about working with Gen Z?
00:30:46
Speaker
Mm hmm. Actually, I'll tell you I'll tell you a little story because I also you know, as you know, I parent a Gen Z or she's in eighth grade. I'll tell you what my favorite thing is because she and I talked over the holidays about her wanting to start her own business. She came to me she'd been reading entrepreneurial books and she said I want to start my own business. I have like five different ideas. I'm going to make a spreadsheet and can you talk through the pros and cons of each idea and figure out who I can target for my business and like
00:31:15
Speaker
Okay, you're like 13. All right, cool. So we talked for hours and hours about this and she laid out an entire kind of, you know, audit of like what possibilities she had for starting home business and market research and everything. And then she narrowed it down and then she came to me and said, all right, can you help me start a business plan? And I was like, yes, that is my favorite thing about working with Gen Z.
00:31:36
Speaker
is they try to see where they fit and how they can make a difference and then take action around it and again this is you know kind of a big broad generalization but I was so pleased to see that and that is something that I have seen with my students and I have something I've seen with even Gen Zers that I've worked with which have been few the mostly graduate students but
00:31:58
Speaker
this idea of, OK, where do I fit and how can I bring my strengths to this situation? But I was so excited to see it with my 13-year-old that I thought, OK, this is just we as older generations, but particularly employers, should capitalize on this excitement and this passion and this idea that I want to figure out where I fit and what I can do to make a difference because
00:32:21
Speaker
You know, I could have just said, oh, I don't know, you know, figure out your own business plan. But I sat down with her and she just got more and more and more excited and has been developing all these things. So we've talked about like what comes next. And I and I was just so inspired and so motivated by that. And I really see that Gen Z wants to make a difference. Gen Z wants to work. They want to do good things.
00:32:40
Speaker
And sometimes I think that on the other end of it, we just need to make our workplaces open and amenable to some of their ideas. And of course they have to learn about how things are done from us because we do have good, older generations do have good ways of doing things and we do have reasons for things. We don't want to topple over the apple cart for everything and we also help socialize them.
00:33:03
Speaker
But I think it's a mutual socialization process. And if we take that passion and we just refuel some of us who have been in the workforce for a long time and retired, I think we can all get motivated from that. And that is what excites me, is I just love the inspiration and the motivation for so many of them to want to make a difference. Absolutely. And I can't wait to hear what your daughter's business plan is. And please let me know when she's looking for investors. I don't have a lot, but I'll do what I can. I was trying that angel investing
00:33:32
Speaker
when they're young, you know, because hopefully it's affordable then. And they don't forget who was there along the whole way to support them. So I think it's always helpful, you know, we've been working on lots of things, never, never a dull moment with Cory and I. So would love for you to just kind of give an update, like what are we working on? So if you have an idea on what they can be looking forward to, you know, some of the big projects that we are to what we can share about, I hate to be like vague and coy, but
00:34:00
Speaker
what are some things that people can get excited about that we've been working on and will be planning to release in the next bit of time? Well, you know, our big, our big, big study, you know, we kind of wrapped up at least the data collection and a lot of the analysis of was our global Gen Z study, which was totally snowballed, right? I mean, you and I were going to do just, you know, kind of another another study about Gen Z and we were going to, you know,
00:34:25
Speaker
try to get more participants from the US and then all of a sudden it was like people from Spain were like hey we want to do it and then people from Australia we want to do it next thing you know we have 32 partner countries from around the world and then when the survey went viral we ended up with more than 80 countries represented in the sample and you know
00:34:41
Speaker
you know, lots and lots and lots of participants. So that was really exciting because for me, it was not just that we have this massive data set and we have the information to kind of get a better global snapshot of who Gen Z is globally, which has been really cool though.
00:34:56
Speaker
But it's really this collaboration that we've had with all of these amazing researchers. I mean, we went through and started to find people who had written about Gen Z in any and every country we could. We scoured every website to see who are these people that are studying this and said, hey, do you want to participate? And most everyone said yes. And we ended up with a research team of, I believe it was 91 total researchers on the team. People that we know their names. We've done presentations with them. We've traveled and visited some of them. And we're working right now on our Gen Z around the world book.
00:35:25
Speaker
which we've secured a publisher for and we're knee deep in that book. So that's been really exciting and really fun to be able to do that project. And I'm also really excited to release the findings from that because that book, basically the essence of that book, and Azar and I will do a little bit of a spoiler alert, but the essence of the book is that Gen Zers from around the world have way more in common with each other than they do differences.
00:35:50
Speaker
even when you're looking at the fact that we had 19 different languages for the survey, we had all these different countries represented, that we do see a lot of similarities between all these different countries that are incredibly unique, geopolitically and culturally and historically from each other. And so I think that is really interesting and really telling. Absolutely. I'm very excited about that book.
00:36:15
Speaker
to get it out to people. I kind of, not that I forgot we were writing it, but I just have kind of blocked it out of my mind that we're doing it, even though we've actively been doing it because we are working on another study and we're just, we never stop. It's my nerdy hobby that we do, but I think the global book will just, it's such, I think a point of pride for us in the sense that like, it is very typical for you and I to be such planners, but we did not plan for that
00:36:45
Speaker
turn out the way that it did in such a good way. And the findings are just so interesting when we think about, as you pointed out, the similarities that exist within our world for Gen Z. And I think that that's really just a great, it's a great resource. I think it's going to be fantastic for people to kind of get a look at that.
00:37:08
Speaker
The amazing researchers that we brought together like really do span when I think about like all the things you need to understand a generation. They really have that background everything from marketing to psychology to wellness the environment like you name it these this research team represents that and I think it is just such a I mean
00:37:28
Speaker
go us for such a good accident. Because we didn't, we certainly didn't plan it that way. But hey, it worked out. And then what else? Like what else is our big thing that we're like about to embark on? Well, I mean, within we're within days of launching our next study, which is generations in the workplace. And this is going to be an amazing study where we for the first time, really look at, you know, for working generations, we're looking at
00:37:57
Speaker
Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Boomers in the workplace and doing some comparisons between the groups. We really have been Gen Z focused for so many years, but we also have another book that we're writing, Generations in the World of Work, which is, we haven't started writing that yet because we are actually in the process of going to be collecting data here real soon on that. That is exciting because it's
00:38:20
Speaker
We anticipate that this book is going to be excellent for employers. And in people, you know, even faculty in college settings and instructors who are using it to prepare Gen Z for the workforce, just saying, like, what is this landscape of the world of work today? And what do we need to know about generations and how they show up? It will help with cross-generational collaboration. It will help with just appreciation and understanding so we can, you know, be more productive in terms of working across generations.
Future Research Directions
00:38:45
Speaker
And it will probably give some best practices of each generation. There's just some things that each generation does really, really well that would be really nice for others to hear about and learn about and figure out how to put into the fabric of that the culture of the organization. So this is something we're excited about. We will be, you know, kind of culminating the study in probably the next month or two. And then we were going to be actively writing on this, which will be
00:39:08
Speaker
But as far as at least having data to disseminate or at least data to share, we're going to have a lot more data to complement our global data here real soon as well. Yes, it's never a dull moment. If my Gen Z to-do list or my generation's to-do list, now that it lives under the nonprofit, ever hit zero, I would be like,
00:39:30
Speaker
Cory must be sick. Cory must be hiking the mountains because I'm finally caught up on all my stuff. Because in a good way, we are just so passionate about this work and so excited about what it is. And it's funny, Michael, the other day was like, oh, what are you working on? Because I try to work on stuff on the weekends or one or two nights a week. And I was like, well, I really cracked the code on helping Gen Z and educators learn better in groups.
00:40:00
Speaker
Casually, I'm like, yeah, I did. I just, I figured it out. And he's like, okay, it's just, we never, we never are bored by this. I could get lost in our data and in our work. And so it is always a great thing to be working on this kind of stuff. So Corey, thank you for being here and sharing in the space to chat a little bit more. I know we don't get to do it very often, but I think it is so important. And there's just so much that people can look forward to.
00:40:29
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, it's always fun talking to you. And I know that it was fun as we're recording this. And then we'll probably get off and then we'll go talk more about it because we just love talking about it so much. And so I know it's just it's fun. It's exciting. It's interesting work. And I'm glad to be a part of it. And I'm glad to be working with you. So thank you. Yeah, it's like we have the best jobs in the world, really, personally, I think so. Exactly.
00:40:57
Speaker
So one of my 2023 goals is to prioritize balance in my work and personal life. A big piece of that is carving out some time in my day to focus on activities that bring me joy. One of the things that brings me joy is solving problems. Weirdly enough, sometimes that comes in the form of puzzles because they're great downtime activity to do just that. From puzzle games to crosswords, we are just a house of puzzle people here. Michael is also an avid jigsaw puzzler, so
00:41:24
Speaker
I was really excited when I came across Wango puzzles. Wango puzzles are 100% wooden puzzles, so they last forever. Each piece is hand drawn, so no two pieces are the same, and you'll discover some fun, whimsy pieces as you work through it. They also come in these really beautiful wooden boxes, which is perfect for storage and gifting.
00:41:45
Speaker
Honestly, Wongo puzzles are visually stunning as they are fun to put together. It's like doing a puzzle while also building a stained glass window. It's truly gorgeous. So they have some awesome designs like an elephant, turtle, or snow globe. So what are you waiting for? You can go to wongopuzzles.com and pick your puzzle today. And be sure to use the promo code GENZ to get 10% off your order. Wongo guarantees that this is the most fun you've ever had with a puzzle, or you get your money back.
00:42:14
Speaker
Go to w-o-n-g-o-puzzles.com and use the code GENZ to get 10% off your order. Get to puzzling right now. I want to share a big thank you to Corey for joining me in this episode and helping me kick off the last five seasons. As we enter in a new phase of exploration with Gen Z, it's just really nice to start off with an old friend and a wonderful collaborator. I know I'm always thankful to learn alongside Corey and I hope you enjoyed it too.
00:42:43
Speaker
There's so much Cory and I will be exploring as we begin to think about Generation Z and other generations in the world of work. If you were into this episode, you were in for a really big treat, as this season will be full of episodes and guests providing insights into the work lives of Gen Z, from how to recruit and retain Gen Z employees to what Gen Z wants in work and the industries they're entering. So stay tuned for more episodes. They're coming soon. But the best way to do so is to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:43:12
Speaker
And a rating and review helps other people who listen to podcasts and have similar interests find the show. It also helps them determine if it's a good fit for their listening vibe, which I hope it is. While season five is already shaping up to be a great time, I'm always interested in the topics we can explore together.
00:43:29
Speaker
If you have an idea or person I need to chat with, please reach out via my website, meganmgrace.com, or on social media, at meganmgrace. You're a part of listening and learning adventure. I'm always happy to look more into something that you want to learn about. Thank you again for stopping by this episode. Let's continue this conversation and we'll chat soon.