Transcript
Speaker: Wow. I'm so grateful and honored to have the amazing Harvey Lewis on the runner's podium podcast today. a legend, one of all time greats of ultra running. and And I can't even list your accomplishments, Harvey, because that would take the entire podcast. Just to give my listeners a sense who aren't as familiar with you, you know, you bad water champion multiple times, one of the hardest foot races in the world.
Speaker: I think at one point you ran over 450 miles in the backyard ultra. You've won a ton of races. Your consistency and just how how much you constantly are showing up for events and representing and being such a strong part of the running community and such ah a beacon of light and just so inspiring to so many people and and just always seems like you're always showing up, which is just amazing. And also what's really cool about you, Harvey, is I think you have a activist mentality with your plant-based fellow team VPA member, you know, representing. And also human rights is is a part of what you do. And the way you've integrated that into your running is just so cool. I know you've done a bunch of amazing things in that in that sense. And, you know, when you were up here in New York,
Speaker: I was so bummed I couldn't join you and our schedules didn't align for a few miles, but maybe just for a second, talk about what you're doing, because it was so cool when you were running that 250. Yeah. Thanks, David. And thanks for everyone that's tuning in. It is and so nice to connect absolutely with fellow vegan out there and someone who's passionate about all sorts of elements in addition to running.
Speaker: Yeah, so this summer we did this wild journey from York City to Washington, D.C. on foot, 250 miles, which happened align to the 250th anniversary of the country.
Speaker: And yeah, when we were looking for a route to be symbolic of the 250th, Just so happened, like, to almost the exact mile, New York to D.C. on the route we took was exactly 250 miles, which was amazing. And really, i got the idea because i was really disappointed with the treasurer department that There were originally five commemorative coins for the 250th that had been agreed to by a nonpartisan panel. And three of the coins, specifically the 19th Amendment women's suffrage, the Frederick Douglass coin, and the Ruby Bridges coin were removed and replaced by pilgrims and framers of the founding fathers.
Speaker: So I just felt like we're moving backwards into like the education I got when I was a young person in this country and people before me got, where we really marginalized these really important stories that actually have influenced the Constitution and our way of life that we have today.
Speaker: because of those individuals. So we that that inspired us to make this 250-mile run and to highlight stories along the route that are often marginalized.
Speaker: And it was really an incredible journey. lot of it was because it was it was so much discovery, even though it's an urban setting. you know We were finding a lot of things I didn't know about this country. And Also, why meeting people along the route that came out to run with us. I mean, that was so incredible.
Speaker: Just people would join us each day and then telling ah a bit about the history as we were going each day also made a big impact. For me, it was important to share the stories. That's so cool. It was hot that week, too. I don't i mean, I know you got all the heat. That was the hottest weather I've ever run in outside the valley, which is saying a lot because I've run in a lot of crazy places and deserts.
Speaker: But it was literally ah like in the 101 range, but it was like the heat index that week was like 111. yeah team Like on July 3rd and 4th. It was crazy.
Speaker: Yeah, i was blazing. Yeah. It was blazing. So cool you guys did that. right, man, let's get right in. So we got our categories. We're going to run through. That's how this podcast works. We got different categories and you can give your top three. And the first one is your top three most memorable running moments.
Speaker: Well, number one would be Biggs in 2023 when I won the world championship race. It's just that. like iconic sort of crazy event.
Speaker: And just, ah I was the underdog. And I think after day two, people thought there is no way Harvey's gonna go. So it was just fun to defy expectations and to take it all the way home and to do that with a world record on one of the toughest courses out there.
Speaker: So then two would be Badwater 2014 because that was, That was the first time I won like a major ultra. And I had really been striving to win that race for four. Well, I ran it the first year without really the intention of winning. But for at least three years, four years, i had like that in my my vision of to go after winning the race. So again, it was like one of those moments that it's you have a big giant dream that's almost seems that just you're just 100%.
Speaker: holding on to a hair with your finger and then to actually reach it is just a really extraordinary feeling when work so hard for it. It was 10 years from the the month I broke my neck too.
Speaker: oh wow. Yeah, so it's definitely number two. And then number three, to be truthful in my entire life experience would probably be a marathon that I jumped into my first marathon when I was 15 years of age.
Speaker: Wow. Cool. Where was that? That was the Cleveland Marathon. oh cool And less than two years prior to that, I was like chunking Goonies. Always growing up, I was the second biggest biggest kid in the school.
Speaker: And I was, I'd only run it eight miles up to that point. I told the kids on my track team, I said, I saw this, the marathon. i I'm like, I'm gonna go do that.
Speaker: Just on a spur, like the week before, I signed up. My mom fortunately signed me up. And I was like, oh, man, that was the toughest race. Like, at hardest thing I ever done my life at that point. I mean, I got to mile 10. was like, oh, and this is an oh, shit moment.
Speaker: And then it was just survival for 16 miles, which seemed like I was going across the entire Sahara Desert. So finishing that was a revolution in my mind. It really caused me to change the way I viewed the world. And i after that, I improved my education. i was like a DEC student. After that, I swift shifted to a B plus student.
Speaker: Oh, wow. i Yeah, I really changed my education. Your trajectory. be My trajectory, that one race. And it planted the seed in your mind, probably, of what you could accomplish, you know, and and what you could endure.
Speaker: but ah it's took me over five hours. And honestly, it took me five years to break the five-hour mark in the marathon. But had it not been, I didn't. If I'd never stayed with it in that race, I never, ever would have done any of the additional things I've done all along this journey.
Speaker: It all started Before we move on, what different happened in 2014 in Badwater? Was it just more miles, more training, more experience with the course? Or like what do you think clicked on that particular year after you know years of trying and and putting it all together?
Speaker: There were a lot of elements to it. I definitely was always tweaking, improving. i mean, there are like over a dozen skills that I improved considerably in the the few years leading to that.
Speaker: So things like, for example, pacing. yeah I like were was involved with the Clip Bar pace team. And that happened a few years before that. So I was pacing like five or six marathons a year. So I got really strong in pacing myself.
Speaker: Speed, I had qualified and had run in the 24-hour world championship race. At that point, two times, I gained like ah more speed and understanding of like,
Speaker: competing at a high level race. another Give you three things. And another thing that happened that year is I started the 12 months leading up to that. I started run commuting every day back and forth to school.
Speaker: So that shifted my training regimen and definitely increased my physicality significantly.
Speaker: And you still do the run commute? So I've been doing it for over 13 years. I've commuted every day to and from work. 99.9% of time it is running.
Speaker: There's a few crazy times where I've literally like kayaked to work, I've snowed to work, I've walked to work after some crazy big effort. Last year after Biggs, I ran 462 miles and like tied the American record.
Speaker: And that was my furthest distance ever. And I also broke a couple ribs and injured my hamstring in that race and ended even having to go to the hospital because they were concerned about some bleeding with ah the ribs.
Speaker: So I left the hospital and then the next day I like i crutched it to the bike rental place on the next corner over from my house about like, I don't know, maybe it's about 500 meters. And then rode the bike to work.
Speaker: So I kept my streak alive with human power. But like 99.9% of the time is with running. So awesome. What about your top three running shoes? I'm curious about that.
Speaker: So running shoes, you're asking me a ah tough question right now that is like ah something I'm like in a ah mode of of change with. Transition. Transition. Yeah. So I've actually for 15 years of my life ran in Newtons and I ran with Newtons and they were really crushed they were kind of clobbered by the tariffs. Yeah.
Speaker: uh that that we saw even though the tariffs ended know that really crushed their inventory and kind of caused a whole bunch of shake-ups there and so uh i've i've kind of been i still love newtons and actually they've they've got a little bit of a lifeline now they've been resuscitated and they got their stock back in but i've i've moved to shifting to other shoes so right now i'm like Really pretty excited about the Altros.
Speaker: And I wore, um it's it's a transition though, because when you've been wearing a shoe for a long time, it takes a little bit of time to adjust your form. The trail shoes, instantaneous. I put them on, ran a 25K race this summer. First time ever wore trail shoes.
Speaker: Fantastic. I think the month Mont Blanc. There's a VF Forward. I wore them yesterday and it felt really good. like I was just flying.
Speaker: And so I'm looking forward to trying their carbon shoes, hopefully later this week. Cool. Yeah, I've heard good things. Yeah, so I'm i'm excited. like Their company has done a lot of amazing things in ultra space. So we'll see if it's something that I end up taking long term.
Speaker: you know But I do have a lot of loyalty to the sponsors I've i've had. And I don't want disparage Newton at all. like They've been amazing company. fact, they're vegan certified. um they They also use a ton of ah reusable materials in their shoes.
Speaker: And they were amazing quality. Like, I mean, my form has always been really strong. We're in the Newtons. Nice. How about your top three running moments that didn't go as planned?
Speaker: Yeah, so I'd say first the list kind of comes to mind is the Spartathlon. And I still have a a date to return to Spartathlon.
Speaker: yeah I'm crazy. I plan to probably do it in about like 10 years when I retire from teaching. and I have more time on my hands. ah And hopefully I can be fast enough still to finish in that 36-hour time limit.
Speaker: But what happened is in 2010, had this crazy situation. First was ah the flight over. I'm always trying to compact everything with the teaching years so I couldn't take many days off. So I'm literally like flying over there with just like a day to spare.
Speaker: And we had emergency landing in Manchester, England. i ended up getting to the to race like literally like six hours before it started. Of course, I...
Speaker: Didn't use logic and I decided I was going run out the race like I was running like a marathon or with ah ah Nunez, who's a famous Brazilian runner, had the 100k world record for many years.
Speaker: um So, yeah, by about mile 50, I thought, oh, my God, this was not a good plan. It was a very hot day. I was like, oh. So I got over the 100 mile mark where there's this mountain. mountain is you You could see that.
Speaker: When Fidipity saw the God Pan, my dad had told me about this mountain. I was like, dad, it's Greece. It's not mountainous there. Well, it's mountainous enough to really eat me up. So by the time I got to mile 116, I just quit the race. In that moment, I was at the finish line as runners were coming in.
Speaker: And i I knew that I would have if i wouldve kept in the race, I would have either just barely made it. or just barely not made it And the fear of not making it caused me to not want to attempt to do it.
Speaker: And that was something that was part of me before I did my first marathon. like I just like didn't apply myself in school because I was worried about applying myself in school and it not going well.
Speaker: oh So I think that fear. So that really trained me. After that race, I never want to not finish a race again in my entire life, even if I'm in last place, unless I'm injured.
Speaker: So yeah that's that's the case. So that... that That would be number one. It really influenced me in terms of like how I've been because I don't i don't have DNFs other than like a Barkley Marathons or a last-person standing race. Yeah. So I finished the race. I heard you say that before, which I think is is awesome, you know because some pros, people I follow on Strava, like when marathon runners, if they realize they're not going to have a good – what they deem good. It's still insanely fast. They just drop they just drop out at like mile 16 or mile 20. And at first when I saw it, I'm like, wait, what? They just don't want to finish. But yeah, much respect because you're winning races and then you're still on the days where it doesn't go as you might have hoped.
Speaker: Still going to gut it out. Yeah, it might affect my ultra sign-up score, but who cares? like it's like It's kind of strange. like if you don't If you drop out, then that doesn't go against your score and no one knows about it or whatever. Nah. I don't mind if I finish Two, next race would be, well, recent race, I guess, would be the one I just did, Last Soul. That race, I did it 16 days after doing Badwater.
Speaker: So going into the race, I really rebuilt my body as fast as I humanly could 16 days. But given that I did Mid-State Mile in June, where I ran really hard with Mark, and I ended up winning that race and going like 160 miles with like I guess it was feet of climbing.
Speaker: And then i then I did that 250-mile run from New York to dc And then I went to Portugal, and I did another twenty five k race. And then I went to Badwater, and i did i got the record for the 50 to category.
Speaker: And it was a 25-hour or something. So it was pretty fast. like That was actually my... that was actually like my fourth or fifth fastest i think it was my fifth fastest bad water ever and so then i had 16 days to in all those races i'm not having a long time to really train for like the simulating the type of race it is right i'm very challenging and so yeah coming last soul
Speaker: I really antagonized my Achilles on my left side. was really swan. And after I dropped out at like 191 miles or something like that, which is, that's actually the lowest distance I've ever had a backyard.
Speaker: But It was like the choice was, okay, I could keep going and like really possibly injure my Achilles more long-term for six months or who knows what. You could even perpetuate yourself. yeah So I was like, no, this is not a good idea. it wasn't down like It wasn't like I was down to last three runners either and I had maybe 100 miles go or something. So yeah, that would be the next one. And that, you know, when you get knocked down and you like want to do better, that's the best thing in the world because that creates fire inside you to go harder and to rebuild yourself.
Speaker: So that would be number two. And number three would be last year's bigs where I mentioned that I had gotten injured. I broke my ribs like, uh, like about 12 hours before the end of the race. And I also like really agitated my hamstring really badly.
Speaker: um Maybe it was my form, but that was, I definitely really ridiculous. I looked, that was the worst I've been beat up since breaking my neck. Like I was really beat up.
Speaker: And like, that took me, like I was super intense about my recovery. i mean, that, One doctor I saw who specialized, he said, oh you probably won't be able to run for like six or eight weeks.
Speaker: Well, I was thinking that. i was totally fine with that. I was like, that is totally fine. But Mr. Miyagi was working on me. I was doing all the things, all the things I do, including the the vegan foods, but focusing on really healthy stuff.
Speaker: And Mr. Miyagi working on me, all the elements. And I started running again, just like a mile. But my dog, Carly, and I, we started running with a mile. It was like maybe just about three weeks after that.
Speaker: And then it was like three weeks and four days I was running to work. And then boom, boom, boom. So I was definitely like, oh, I was destroyed. So now it's motivation to rebuild and go back and improve yourself and do better.
Speaker: Beautiful. My ASCO is probably too long for you, man. you're probably No, no. This incredible stuff. yeah No, I love it. What about your top three pieces of essential gear, Harvey?
Speaker: It would depend on the race. Definitely depend on the race, but absolutely my Rapid gear. like i love ah Rapid is my essential sponsor. so They have really amazing, very lightweight gear.
Speaker: very comfortable apparel. Like it's the best i've I've worn. So I really like the compression shorts. Those are amazing. They also have pockets. Like yesterday I was running and it was nice because I was able to run without a backpack for 20 miles. And I just had like my phone in one pocket, my credit card in the other pocket.
Speaker: That was it. Like, you know, i just go, I can go as long as I want, just stop at a gas station or whatever. hey stop that Those shorts are amazing. I say also a hat because the the risk of so skin cancer. yeah So that's for anyone listening. actually got a melanoma cancer was about two years ago.
Speaker: that was totally removed on my shoulder. looks like I got attacked by a shark here. I'm not like a super fair complexion individual. Like I don't have hazel eyes, but darker hair and my skin tans easily. And I think that a lot of people don't necessarily realize being in the sport that we are and loving just being outdoors of like being conscientious about everything covering yourself as much as possible, and also wearing sunblocks. So we're going to add sunblock for number three in there. Yeah, got to protect yourselves.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm 100% good. I see my dermatologist like every six months, but it actually really good fortune that I just randomly a few years ago found this amazing dermatologist. I'm like, I'm gonna go once a year just to have myself looked over just because I'm always outdoors. yeah And that makes me a little bit higher risk factor.
Speaker: And so first couple years, he's like, yeah, I don't see anything at all. But he's always like, yeah, we'll see in another year. And he's just amazing guy, really amazing doctor.
Speaker: But he fortunately saw it and like, you know, seeing it early on is like really critical. So yeah they don't mess around with the melanoma. Like, even though it was only the size of like a pencil eraser on the end,
Speaker: They literally like, it looks like I was attacked by a tiger shark. They took a chunk of like flesh and hot skin out of that area. Don't mess around.
Speaker: right, Harvey, how about your top three running pet peeves? See if anything comes to mind. and that can be, you know, with training, running culture, races, sports. Oh, top three pet peeves, I would say.
Speaker: That's hard to say. There's not much that gets me going. I say it's more like drivers. like People are driving their car. Yeah, that's a pet peeve. They don't... like have any awareness of people who are pedestrians in our country. Like if you go to Europe, like people are much more conscientious of pedestrians and pedestrians always have the right way.
Speaker: If you come even into the pedestrian walk in Europe, I mean, they're going to go after you big time. So here in America, people that drive, they think they own the road and they think anyone else is like,
Speaker: out on the road is like their fair game. So I'd say like that's, that'd be number one. ah Number two, i say not being humble enough, I guess.
Speaker: You know, like ah once in a blue moon, like not very often, but you come across someone that they want to just go through a list of all their achievements and accomplishments. And I don't mind it at all. Like I'll listen everyone, you know, but occasionally once every like, you a few years you come across someone and they just want talk for the entire time about all their own accomplishments. I think as runners, we need to be like sort of aware You know, like to be sort of curious about others and and like finding out what they're doing and, you know, not just be going through our list or have to prove that we're, you know, ah whatever we are. I don't know. So I think that's probably something that is good for us to look at.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, I think running, if you're competing or just, you know, running around other people, it really keeps you humble, man. Just there's so much greatness out there. And yeah, it's it's nice to celebrate everybody. Everybody has something we can celebrate. And it's not like social media because, yeah, it might not make sense on someone's social media page to say anything and share about their experience.
Speaker: I'm not talking about that, but occasionally I'll be around somewhere like a race or a table near a race. Like we're doing a race and there'll be someone just, they go on for 30 minutes, just only talk about what they've done versus including other people in the conversation that around them. And I think that that's something we all have to like, you know, just be as good to be humble and like hear what everyone's got going on. Yeah.
Speaker: What about your top three favorite places to run? My top three favorite places to run, believe it or not, one of them is near my home in Circleville out in the country.
Speaker: There's this little park. It's called the Canal Park. And it's like the most oh average place probably on the planet. like ah But it's and it's it' it's absolutely un-average. It's like amazing in its own way. So people don't even use it in the community. Oftentimes, I go over there and I run, i will like almost never even see one other person.
Speaker: like that's It's so crazy. And i so I go running out there. and I mean, there were many years where I was going there, and I didn't see anyone for the whole year. And now I will see, because they have like the kids park and smart things, so I will see people park.
Speaker: And I'll occasionally see someone walking their dog But there's it's like a really nice resource right in our backyard. It's only like a six-minute drive less than that from my home.
Speaker: And it's like farm fields, and there's pathways that grass. So it's very good for your body, like that soft ground when you're increasing your mileage or recovering from a race.
Speaker: It's really great ground to get the strength effects, the benefits of the running without the – the um extra force on your structure. I like really enjoy running in other countries because i like, and I'm just saying this generically because I like exploring places while I'm running.
Speaker: So for example, this summer I went to, let's say like Tunisia and was kind of an exotic place in Northern Africa. And it was,
Speaker: Not exactly, it was not really what I thought. It was very, i felt very safe there. Even though i would be running out in the middle nowhere, i wasn't even far from the border of Libya.
Speaker: And i was running out there, I see like shepherds and going all off in the middle of nowhere. cool And buddies there. it except for shepherds and dogs barking at me. And it was really nice. i love exploring places on the run because I see things so much differently than when I'm driving in a vehicle.
Speaker: Totally. and And then I say the third place would be Death Valley. I love Death Valley. It's like, I love going every year there. It's like an annual pilgrimage and it's my favorite places on the planet.
Speaker: it's It's so exotic and it feels like another planet. it's The desert has this aura about it, this zen, serene feeling. You're going to see for like 50 miles and like the mountains just...
Speaker: brings like these sort of feeling like you're at ah the greatest concert you could ever imagine. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like it's a spiritual place, some kind of Mecca.
Speaker: Oh, it is. It's amazing. Have you been out to that valley yet? I've never been. oh you got something looking to look forward to. Yeah. It's my favorite national park. Yeah. It's really special.
Speaker: I can't wait to make it out there, man. right, I'm curious about this last one because, i mean, you were just talking about incredible back-to-back stuff. Recovery must be a important really important facet of how you bounce back after that crazy effort sixteen after Badwater 16 days later and do the last souls. What are your top three recovery essentials? Yeah.
Speaker: Hot bath with Epsom salt. That's really Love it. Me too, man. Yeah. I love that. Mr. Miyagi. Mr. Miyagi, he does active release therapy. And ah yeah, he he has got this intuition about him that is so strong.
Speaker: ah He could ah basically like find areas of your body that you didn't know that you had a challenge with. So... It's kind of amazing. Like Kim from Germany, there's a race director, last soul, came from Germany and he came to see Mr. Miyagi on Sunday this week with me.
Speaker: And Mr. Miyagi was working like on his but sciatic, like his back. that resonates down his body and influences things going on down below.
Speaker: so it was really wild. then number three, has God be my very good vegan food? Which even in my classroom, oh yeah. at that, nice refrigerator full of all sorts of amazing things. I got some yo fruits in here. I've got my, I love like the beet juice. That's amazing.
Speaker: But I mean, really, they're just eating a broad range of diverse, colorful, whole food type things and not garbage.
Speaker: I mean, well run a race, definitely eat the Oreos and the potato chips and the Coca-Cola. But when I'm not running in the race, I'm eating a real good variety of foods that really you know give me incredible energy and also like help me to have lower inflammation.
Speaker: And really, I'd argue that that's really been the number one influence on my longevity, which this year, the summer marked 30 years of running ultras. So I don't think there's anyone ah that, I mean, it's really been the the number one thing that's really helped me, I'd say, is like eating that variety of food really helps with the lowering inflammation and things.
Speaker: I love that little and video you did with Dr. Greger. Oh, yeah. a Last week or something. That was so cool where he shared his top three. Yeah, he was passionate about it. Yeah. So he did say beets is number one. Nutritional yeast, which I've never done that before. So I'm going to explore with that this next like six months. I'm going to try that out.
Speaker: And then the third thing was dark cherry or cherries. Yeah, cherries. Cherries are great for recovery, he said. So I have been having some cherry juice. and For my lunch, a lot of times I'll make, ah like I love green peas and I'll make a big thing of green peas and just like a ton of ah nutritional yeast and just mix that in. And it's really, yeah, that's fascinating. Okay. So you just bought a nutritional yeast. Like, does it just come like in a container? Like at the, I buy it in bulk. Cause I actually use it a lot. Really? Yeah. So I'll buy like a tub of it. It's like this big. Yeah.
Speaker: Okay, so all right, I'm gonna have to buy this. Now you've really put the seed there. So I'm gonna buy some of that this next this week ahead. Highly recommend. i buy some. Okay, and I can just mix it in with like just about anything.
Speaker: Totally. I find it so versatile, like with veggies, whatever, mix it in. People love it with pasta, but like you know I mix it in with all kinds of stuff. Pasta too. Okay. Definitely. okay Now got me psyched.
Speaker: I'm psyched about that. All right, Harvey, before we wrap up, can you just leave one last thought for runners out there? i think the number one most important thing is to have fun with whatever you're doing. So find the fun and also like comparison, it can be the thief of joy.
Speaker: So you know I compare like, okay, I think about, for example, David Goggins, he is amazing in his own right. We both have strengths. you know I'm i'm the areas I could be stronger in him, and he has areas he could be stronger for sure than I am. So, I mean, he can do pull-ups like all day long.
Speaker: I mean, I look ridiculous. My like wife was laughing at me yesterday doing like four or five pull-ups, you know? So I would like to get stronger in pull-ups, but it would definitely take away the joy if I was just like only thinking of myself in terms of comparison. So I think it's real important to find feel good about what you're doing.
Speaker: You'll find the joy and like also work at improving yourself. So like work at you know, where you are here and where you're going for the next step. And like, that's the best that's going to resonate to like a superpower for your your, your own experience. So go get it.
Speaker: Go get it, man. Harvey, this is so incredible to have you on. Wish this could go on all day. have so much to learn from you, but I want to be a respect. Likewise, David, that is really great. And now to get back to like grading papers and planning tomorrow's lesson. Yeah. Then it's off to the sauna and the run commute home. Beautiful. It's going take me into Kentucky. So listeners out there, man, please follow Harvey's incredible journey. to Harvey, you're so great about posting on on socials and keeping everyone up to date about what you're doing.
Speaker: And there's just so much amazing stuff coming from you. So thank you so much, man. It's been an honor. appreciate it, David. Thank you so much. And thanks for spreading all this energy. My brother.
Speaker: Thank you.
