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Justin Hast - The Optimist The Watch World Needed
1.1k Plays6 months ago
Today’s guest is the most optimistic guy I know in watches, Mr. Justin Hast. He’s a journalist, consultant, and creative in many facets of the watch industry and he’s got the collection to prove it. His passion has led him down many paths, ultimately carving out a niche for himself as a trusted source, not only from collectors, but from some of the biggest brands in the industry. He cherishes not only the emotions and experiences that watches bring, but also the memories and relationships that have come to fruition as a result of it. If his work as a creative in the industry wasn’t enough, he even publishes a yearly book called The Watch Annual which is a compendium of each year's best watches. At the end of the day, there’s not many guys like Justin who mix work and passion like he does, and it shows. So without further adieu, my friend Justin Hast, for Collectors Gene Radio.
Justin Hast's Website - https://www.justinhast.com/
Justin Hast's Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/justinhast/
George Bamford's Podcast Episode with Justin - https://www.bamfordwatchdepartment.com/?p=12114
The Watch Annual - https://thewatchannual.com/
The Watch Journey Podcast - https://www.justinhast.com/thewatchjourney
Recommended
Transcript
The Dual Nature of Luxury
00:00:00
Speaker
Luxury itself is just a fascinating fascinating thing because I know we've talked about it in the past and I know you feel this. This just is a general sense there's a feeling that these things can give you when harness correctly can bring so much joy but when they're not honest properly they can bring you know real real pain and heartache and detriment to people so abundance is not the answer but I think curation is the answer.
Collectors and Their Genes
00:00:24
Speaker
What's going on everybody and welcome to collector's gene radio.
00:00:29
Speaker
This is all about diving into the nuances of collecting and ultimately finding out whether or not our guests have what we like to call the collector's gene. If you have the time, please subscribe and leave a review. It truly helps. Thanks a bunch for listening and please enjoy today's guest on collector's gene radio.
Meet Justin Hast
00:00:49
Speaker
Today's guest is the most optimistic guy I know of watches, Mr. Justin Hast. He's a journalist, consultant, and creative in many facets of the watch industry, and he's got the collection to prove it. His passion has led him down many paths, ultimately carving out a niche for himself as a trusted source, not only from collectors, but from the biggest brands in the industry. He cherishes not only the emotions and experiences that watches bring, but also the memories and relationships that have come to fruition as a result of it.
00:01:16
Speaker
And if his work as a creative in the industry wasn't enough, he even publishes a yearly book called The Watch Annual, which is a compendium of the year's best watches.
The F.P. Journe Elegante: A Personal Story
00:01:24
Speaker
At the end of the day, there's just not many guys like Justin who makes work and passion like he does and it shows. So without further ado, my friend Justin Hast for Collector's Dream Radio. Justin, it has been a long time coming, but I am so thrilled to have you on Collector's Dream Radio.
00:01:40
Speaker
Hey, what a treat. It's a real pleasure. And yeah, we had some back and forth this week, and I'm just grateful to be here. So thanks very much for having me. Absolutely my pleasure. I don't typically do this, but let's get a little risk check today. What came out of the Molokov watch case today?
00:01:58
Speaker
I thought you'd never ask. It's actually entirely unplanned. Although five, 10 minutes before we started recording this, I did think to myself, he might ask me what I'm wearing.
The Allure of F.P. Journe
00:02:09
Speaker
And it's a watch that I haven't been able to take off the wrist, honestly, for months. It's the F.P. Jean elegant titanium case.
00:02:18
Speaker
white dial on a green rubber strap. And it's a watch that in so many ways makes no sense. It's prohibitively difficult to get hold of. It's eye wateringly expensive. It's quartz. It's an unusual shape. And it's from a maker that most people outside of our little world of Supergeeks doesn't really know or appreciate. But for me, it's incredibly comfortable.
00:02:46
Speaker
And it's funny how sometimes things in your life that just, I guess that's what Rolex's success has been for so long is they produce products that are so easy to wear and enjoyable to wear that people forget that they're even wearing them almost. And this watch has been that for me. So yeah, FPGOLNEL again, what have you got on? I love that. That's the 40 millimeter, by the way.
00:03:05
Speaker
It's actually, do you know what? It's the 46 millimeter, but that's not a true reflection of how it wears. But it wears much more than that.
00:03:16
Speaker
I was at a F.P. Jorn dinner the other night, and some of the stuff that these guys brought was just insane. We had Pierre, who kind of runs North America, and he's out of Miami. And then we had Kenny, who is out of the Los Angeles boutique. And between the collectors and what these guys brought, I mean, it was so special to see in person. And I always tell people, F.P. Jorn, you have to see it in person, because photos truly just don't do it justice.
00:03:40
Speaker
And on top of that, I would say that in the hand, once you get to actually appreciate the product in the hand, the watch in the hand, the build quality is really second to none. It's really quite special. It's funny, some people don't connect with the design aesthetic.
00:03:57
Speaker
a friend in a collector group on WhatsApp that I was saying, I just don't get it, I just don't get it. And that's really interesting for me. It's been much like many things that we'll discuss today. It's just purely visceral. I've always loved the type font that he uses. I've always loved the applied sub dials. The whole aesthetics just immediately speaks to me. So really interesting, really, really interesting, but a modern brand that needs to be considered, I think.
00:04:23
Speaker
Absolutely. I am wearing a Ralph Lauren stirrup in rose gold. It's the small model and I absolutely love this watch. I love everything equestrian and This being in the shape of a stirrup number one to having a Piaget movement is just something I think people constantly overlook and
00:04:46
Speaker
you and I've chatted about Ralph before, but yeah, I love this watch and I thought of you because you kind of always look for things that are a little bit out of bounds to what other people are collecting, and that's how I sort of collect, so that's what I got on here.
00:05:01
Speaker
It's definitely one that you need to look a bit closer at. I love that. It's not immediately obvious what you're dealing with and the fact that, wrongfully, people will dismiss the name on the dial sometimes and don't fully appreciate maybe who made the movement or the history of something. That's a cracker.
00:05:22
Speaker
Ralph, they made some amazing watches. I just still to this day don't fully understand what happened with the way in which they were making watches years ago when they were sort of partnered up with Richemont for a little bit and it was just they made some amazing watches and actually to be fair still, you know, you see, you know, you see Goldberger and others sometimes rocking them publicly and fascinating, really, really fascinating, but great, great, great watch. Beautiful.
Joy in Well-Designed Storage
00:05:45
Speaker
Speaking of Molokal real quick, I don't know about you, but can we just talk about how great that watch case is? Yeah, dude, it's funny, isn't it? I've got it here on the desk. That's amazing. They're lovely, lovely guys. So Morkwin, they're based in Belgium, and Michael Luther, the founder of the business, is an English guy that moved over there through his marriage. And he's really a collector at heart. He's a lover of design and a collector at heart. And I just...
00:06:15
Speaker
I just love this case. I mean, it wasn't cheap, but it's a 10-slot watch case, and it's got taupe color to it. And I've got a bit of a soft spot for taupe generally, be it straps or otherwise. And it's beautifully put together. And part of the joy of owning things, I think, as a collector, is the process of engaging with those things. And for me, just the process of unzipping this thing, smelling the leather. Christ, it's a good thing no one can see me doing it. I'm after it.
00:06:43
Speaker
Because TV, I'm not at the safe or anything, but just up in the office, just taking a moment to appreciate how nice it is to have a great case. And in many ways that dictates things for me as well. I set some parameters a bit like other collectors out there who say, hey, this is the number of things I would like and actually it's got 10 slots. So I very much try to stick to those parameters to say if something's coming in, something's got to go out for no other reason than the 10 just was the case that was available and I love that. So it's been quite a meaningful purchase in many ways.
00:07:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's a great case. I have the taupe one as well and the 10-slot one and it's fantastic. But I think the idea of it is interesting because a previous guest once told me, and he's an art collector, but he also says he collects some of the best frames to put the art in. And I'm curious to know what you think about the idea of that for watches, right? Because you also have $20 frames for art and you also have $20 watch boxes. But I think there's something about,
00:07:41
Speaker
collecting luxury stuff and putting it in a luxury, you know, storage facility or luxury means of storage. Mm hmm. It's funny, I've actually on the desk as well. I've got this this this other leather case from a company called Aspenall of London, and they make some nice boxes and leather goods as well, similar to Smice and for anyone out there who might have come across the two brands. And and I have the swatches that I've got in there. I've got these 1990 swatches, the original swatches, 37 millimeter swatches.
00:08:12
Speaker
And yeah, you've just got to celebrate these things. Although those watches, generally speaking, I wouldn't say, you know, aren't the sort of things you would celebrate. I look at these watches and cherish them as much as I do anything else I have. And these things do need to be looked after. And I'm almost, and some people out there might have a chuckle with this, but there's these plastic perspex boxes that you can get for watches.
00:08:35
Speaker
I don't know if you come across them where they've got sticky insides like plastic sticky insides, which just they hold the watch in the middle of the watchbox and there's something OCD about it. There's something OCD about the idea of keep storing things in a certain way and.
00:08:52
Speaker
It's quite personal really, isn't it? I'm open to flexing it. Generally, I really like these nicer boxes and I agree with you. It's a bit like making coffee or anything that has a process to it where it's lovely to engage with a nice piece of design through a nice piece of design. I'm also looking just at my cupboard here and I'm one of those guys that just
00:09:15
Speaker
It doesn't like the idea of a great wool jumper being eaten by moths either. So I've got these things, I've got all my jumpers in bags. So I'm sort of a bit OCD like that. I don't have many things, but the things I have, I do really cherish. And I think, you know, it can be applied to almost anything, be it watches or shoes or suits or whatever it might be. Yeah, absolutely. Christ, this is going to be like a therapy session. We're diving into the psyche of how I live. That man's been so affected over his lifetime.
00:09:45
Speaker
Don't worry, my retainer is not that much. I won't make you go into your life story again because you just did it on a great episode with George Bamford, so I will link that here. But because you write and consult for many luxury brands, what was the moment where you fell in love with luxury as a whole?
Origins of a Passion for Design
00:10:06
Speaker
This was probably the only thing I did start thinking about ahead of our chat today was where this sort of all really stemmed from, where the interest in nice things, nicely designed things. And I would say I was very, very lucky and it might resonate with others out there. I was very, very lucky. I had two wonderful parents, but both of them were lawyers and neither of them had a particular interest in design or collecting or
00:10:31
Speaker
Quite frankly, nice things. I think for them, they sacrificed an awful lot for us to move over from South Africa to the UK and to London. And so really, there wasn't actually the budget, quite honestly, for them to celebrate themselves. I actually, growing up, can't remember my dad particularly buying anything for himself ever.
00:10:48
Speaker
I was very lucky to have that balance at home which was quite frugal in fact very frugal and then had a sort of a mentor figure in an uncle figure and he he was a chap I just met through through other family friends and he was an interior designer and
00:11:03
Speaker
He was a guy I used to work for in summer holidays, and I used to drive him around town. Amazing character, almost the character from yesteryear, immaculately dressed. Always one of those people that appreciated, and he's still very much alive, but he always had a passion and a genuine joy in him from things like fabrics.
00:11:28
Speaker
and the smells around, be it flowers or be it spices in a market or whatever it may be. And I used to drive him around in his old Rolls Royce. I can't remember the name of the model, but there I was like a 15, 17 year old, 17 year old guy, 18 year old guy driving him around for some extra cash. And then I would jump in on some of his projects around London where he would be working on houses in Notting Hill or Mayfair or Piccadilly or wherever it may be. And
00:11:53
Speaker
I just got a glimpse into a whole other world and he was also the one that really got me into watches as well because he used to wear a number of different watches and sometimes people would comment on them and I just observed the conversations that were going on and really his passion just rubbed off on me.
00:12:10
Speaker
You know, he would always talk about lighting in a room. He'd always talk about layering clothing. He'd always talk about food. But all of these things were not necessarily expensive things. And I think this is the big misconception when it comes to great design. The combination of things was the nice thing. You know, he would love buying things from Muji, for example. He'd love pens and Perspex boxes and other things from Muji or cases and other things. And then he'd mix that with something from Laura Piana or
00:12:37
Speaker
or Omez. And I think that's where the fun is, is that great design doesn't have to be expensive, doesn't have to come from big names, but there was just an inherent passion and joy for life. And that really rubbed off on me. So I was very lucky to grow up with him around.
00:12:53
Speaker
I think that's probably where it all came from, really, from a design perspective and an appreciation perspective. The watch journey kind of started slightly differently when my dad gave me this watch for my 21st birthday, which he didn't have a clue what it was. He saw his dad wearing it very infrequently, but it was his only watch that he ever wore, and it was an Amiga constellation from the late 60s, I think, 68.
00:13:19
Speaker
designed by Gero Genta so that was probably the watch link but really that interest in design and brand and style I think style is probably the right word I would use for the inspiration I got from him.
Creativity and Collaboration in Luxury
00:13:32
Speaker
No doubt and then you start to get into doing creative work and what was the turning point that all these brands started to believe in you as a creative to work with them?
00:13:43
Speaker
I'm not sure they ever really believed in what they felt. The one thing I feel like I can trade on more than anything else is just a genuine passion for watchmaking and for design.
00:13:58
Speaker
you know an author and authenticity maybe i mean that's that's that's my ambition anyway i don't know whether that's the case always but that's my ambition cuz i'm certainly not particularly skilled anything really i'm one of those guys that sort of. Really excitable and i've got a big vision for lots of things and i'll come in and.
00:14:17
Speaker
get excited and I've been really lucky over the years because I started writing for a number of different magazines and I was really lucky at Monochrome Watches which Frank Eland still runs in the Netherlands and they gave me a shot and then Revolution from the UK and then Hiddinke and others and I was just really lucky to be given an opportunity to number one see how great people work and then number two just to be introduced to lots of people within brands and over the years I
00:14:42
Speaker
I guess it's been a case of genuine interest and passion and love for what certain brands do. And then those brands being kind enough to throw me a bone and try something. And I've also been really fortunate with the timing, a little cliche to say, it's just the last five, 10 years since I really started getting out into the mix and doing my own thing, the market and the media landscape has changed and evolved towards
00:15:09
Speaker
Being supportive to those out there who also have a passion for these brands and who are prepared to say take photos or learn how to take photos and learn how to film and just take an interest in the brand. So it's been a combination of factors. I feel very, very fortunate. And when I say brands that, you know,
00:15:25
Speaker
any interaction with brands like, you know, El Anconzona or Lauren Ferrier or Resence or Piaget, IWC, you know, these are the types of brands that I've been fortunate enough to do projects with over the years, some bigger than others. And really, I couldn't have ever imagined in a million years that I would ever be able to have done the things that I've been fortunate enough to do, because
00:15:50
Speaker
Ultimately at school i was incredibly basic i mean i was i was failing everything i failed everything and sport was the only thing that kept me alive really sport was that the real thing that kept me kept me alive at school i don't think i would have been at school if there had been a sports field to play on and so for me the future of what what work might look like was really quite quite concerning.
00:16:12
Speaker
In the UK, we had lots of these, you know, what they called sort of careers days and sort of seminars where companies would come in and try and do psychometric testing on you. And when you were 13, 14, 15, 16 to try and work out what you might be best suited for. And I think, what did I get? I got archaeologist, which is interesting, given that actually, you know, what we're interested in now is not a million dollars.
00:16:32
Speaker
And then I got sort of firemen and an army officer and, you know, those types of things. And, you know, had things been slightly different, I mean, you know, the military or something along those lines would have been probably probably quite well suited. But actually, my ambition was to play professional sport. You know, I really wanted to play professional rugby growing up. And that was my that was my my dream. So I've been really lucky to find a world that has been able to work with me in somewhat in the autumn.
00:16:59
Speaker
You have worked with so many amazing brands, especially just in the luxury space in general. I mean, Mr. Porter, Leica, all the watch brands. Is there a dream brand for you to work with? Do you know what, Cam? I feel like I'm working with them now.
00:17:14
Speaker
This probably plugs in nicely with the whole idea of collecting as well and sometimes you've got to be okay with where you are. I think we can live our lives as humans. We can always be lusting after things and that needs to be put in the right place in the mind. If it's put in the right place, which is look back with a real smile and have a smile where we are right now and have a smile to the future.
00:17:32
Speaker
I feel that's what you need to be. So I don't lust after any brand in particular. I don't lust after a particular project. I feel very lucky and grateful to be where I am. And I think that plugs in with things in our lives as well. Just the project I've just finished, actually, which I'm really proud of is this book, this anniversary book, which was just produced with Stephen Pulver at the X, a Hideki managing editor. And I have come together to do a book for Essence.
00:17:58
Speaker
who are an amazing independent brand that i've loved for a long time and i feel lucky i think it's a classic case of. Being around really good people i think richard branson once said you know he doesn't necessarily feel he's got any particular skill sets other than bring good people around him and that's how i feel that's how i feel i love that.
00:18:19
Speaker
But you know i think the other thing to think of is i love the idea of of brand i love the notion of what brand is that's probably one of the things that fascinates me most in life is. You know what are these things that we associate with you know that the sort of the creation of the mind in so many ways but they've got all these different.
00:18:36
Speaker
They've got all these different elements to them that make us dream, you know, to coin a watch phrase, which Beaver and others have coined over the years. You know, watches do allow you to dream. And that's what brands do. And I think they're amazing.
Harnessing the Power of Luxury
00:18:50
Speaker
Luxury itself is just a fascinating, fascinating thing because I know we've talked about it in the past and I know you feel this. There's just a general sense, there's a feeling that these things can give you. When harnessed correctly, it can bring so much joy. But when they're not harnessed properly, they can bring real pain and heartache and detriment to people. So abundance is not the answer. But I think curation is the answer.
00:19:14
Speaker
Absolutely. As a creative, does creativity and design play an importance in anything that you collect?
Design and Personal Aesthetics
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. As the years have gone by, I feel that it's the one thing I've enjoyed developing more than anything else is an appreciation for design and also just trying to hone your eye, develop your eye. I'm in awe of people who are able to have a really strong design eye, although it's very personal. Not everybody shares the same views on what things are functional and good and enjoyable to look at or interact with and use. But yeah, for me, 100%.
00:19:53
Speaker
I look at almost everything in my world up here. I'm upstairs in my little office here and thank God I've been allowed this space by the family to express myself because I love the idea of collecting things to put into your world and I'm looking at these chairs and I'm looking at the desk and I'm looking at this angle poise lamp on the desk.
00:20:15
Speaker
and all of these things and these photos and all of these things in my world, I feel that I've spent a fair bit of time getting my head around it, trying to wrap my head around what they are, whether they're something that speak to me personally or not, because I think sometimes you can get wrapped up in, especially these days in the landscape we live in, the digital world we live in, you can get wrapped up in thinking things might be the right thing for you, but actually,
00:20:37
Speaker
when you really analyze it and critically question, is this something that's right for me? Is this me? That's the difference, I think. And I feel very at ease in my own environment and I feel very comfortable and content because I do feel that these things, albeit not many, many things, but these things in my world here, I love, they've all got stories to them.
00:20:59
Speaker
I'm literally looking at this trunk. I mean, this is, this is, it's a shame you guys might not be able to see this at home. You won't be able to see this at home. But the trunk, it's like, it's one of those old steamer trunks that people used to travel with in the old days. You know, you used to travel to the States across from Europe and it took days, weeks, months, whatever it did. And it's an old steamer trunk. It's not a Louis Vuitton one or anything, but this trunk I actually found on the street. I'm ashamed to admit it, on the street in South Kensington here in London. They literally put stuff outside.
00:21:27
Speaker
Sometimes you know and put sticker on it saying please take this and it's got gold metal work to it The corners are protected with sort of shaped metal just to protect their riveted or riveted on the corners And I love this thing. It's it's just got so much character to it. It's beaten up to high hell It's got my books on it's got like a humid or it's got a plant on it's got some candles on but I
00:21:46
Speaker
I just absolutely love it and it cost me nothing. The leather on the handle is still there. The way that it connects, the locks flip up, lock-in are still working. That for me is going to come with me. Anyway, I'm drifting. I'm drifting. No, it's all about all that.
00:22:07
Speaker
But as a creative, I mean, I don't necessarily think of myself or see myself as creative. I don't think I look, I mean, God knows, what does a creative look like? I'm not a quintessential looking creative in the sense that, you know, I'm a pretty large sort of basic, I consider myself a bit of a meathead really, I love.
00:22:23
Speaker
training. I'm quite a large individual, probably 100 kgs plus, what's that, 210, 220 pounds, six foot plus. I don't have black room glasses. I'm not an artistic type necessarily, but I do fundamentally have a lens through which I look at the world, which is through a design lens. My wife says, you look at the world through roast into glasses, which is hilarious. She thinks everything I look at is amazing. I'm like, she's
00:22:48
Speaker
look at that building that's fantastic look at this old defender look at the way this thing is looking up it's amazing look at this new watch she's like oh not again she's like don't you hate anything well yeah i mean we do we have some bus stops which she knows there's a few things in life i hate that's for sure but no she does think you you you see the world through as well i can find patina and joy and design and almost anything i think and
00:23:12
Speaker
For that, I'm incredibly grateful. I don't know where that's come from. I know I share it with a lot of other people out there, and I think a lot of people you've interviewed and people listening will definitely feel that. When you meet someone who appreciates those things, it appreciates life through design. It's such a rich way to live. That's what I describe it. It's a rich way to live.
00:23:30
Speaker
I sat down flicking through books from Ralph Lauren the other day, talking of Ralph with your watch. I looked through some of his photo books because I definitely collect coffee table books. I just found a real sense of joy in flicking through the way this man has been able to create a life through design and a sense of joy in everything. I saw a video from him recently. I think he talked about this
00:23:54
Speaker
this plaid shirt he was wearing. I was like, yeah, I bought this from, I don't know, a secondhand shop or something. And you guys call him the thrift store. And he's like, I love the way this shirt's aged over the years. It's not mine, but I love it. And that's the sentiment for me. That's the sentiment of design in my life.
Work as a Collection of Projects
00:24:11
Speaker
Do you ever look at all the work that you've done and think of it as a collection of interviews and the articles that you've written and just a curated archive of all the things that you've done?
00:24:23
Speaker
I've definitely started thinking about it as projects. So I look at my work and my life as a series of projects driven by excitement, because for me, the metric has to be excitement. If you're excited about it, that's when you find joy in it. And so it's all about excitement. It's all about projects.
00:24:41
Speaker
I look at the archive and the archive Christ anytime i look at the stuff is actually through the website when i log on to try and redesign the probably redesign the bloody square space website fifteen hundred times over the last couple years and it still doesn't look any better but it's it's it's funny when you look back as you forget about these things you know you forget about these things because we we are very fast moving in the way we we live and i would like to think that.
00:25:01
Speaker
A bit like when you might listen to one of your podcast episodes, I find those are the times when you slow down. And I want to slow down a bit more. And I want to appreciate these things that have gone. And I do see them as a series of projects because, yeah, there's a couple of things, a book project, or there's a film, a little documentary that I'm working on at the moment. They come and you want to sink yourself into them and immerse yourself in them. And then you want to see them through to the best of your ability and then be proud of them when they go out.
00:25:30
Speaker
And sometimes we forget to do all those things and certainly we forget to enjoy the process because that really is where the joy is to be found. And then at the end of the day, if someone says that they've enjoyed it and then that's great, but I would say it's a series of projects and I'm conscious of trying to make notes of them and enjoy them as well.
00:25:49
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And I think a big part of it is also storytelling. And that's something that is a big piece of collecting as well. So how do you view the relationship of having a collection of things that tell a story? And in your case, being a creative, telling a story to create a narrative around a brand. It's always about storytelling, isn't it? And I think, I think of anyways, a lot of luxury is the ultimate ecosystem for storytelling.
00:26:14
Speaker
Right, because as soon as they lose that aspect of running their company and their brand based on telling a story from the beginning, I think they lose everybody.
00:26:24
Speaker
Totally. I mean, I just saw a video today which really inspired me from Gucci, actually, about the the Hospit Lofa. There's a film on their website and it was so beautifully done. It was two minutes long and they just told you the story of the humble beginnings in Italy and the factory where these things were made, the inspiration, the equestrian inspiration. And it just gets you excited and it provides context for these things because without context.
00:26:45
Speaker
These objects are nothing. I tell you another guy who I really admire is Michael Hill from Drake's here on Savaroa clothing company. And I've had the pleasure of spending some evenings with him and I've interviewed him over the years. And, you know, he was someone who I could hear saying many times, he's like, these clothes, you know, these clothes mean nothing until they're in a context, they're in a setting. And that's often through photos and video and storytelling. And it's absolutely vital. It's essential.
00:27:10
Speaker
You know, the funny thing is looking back, I think I was able to sort of hone storytelling because my mum is probably the biggest influence in my life and she's really bullish, she's a great negotiator and I think growing up I had to become quite a good negotiator to get anything across the line back when I was growing up as a kid and I think negotiating is also storytelling and she sort of forced that upon me. And then in later years, you know, anything you wanted to buy, I mean,
00:27:38
Speaker
the number of times i've had to sneak things into the house to avoid being spotted with something new that's come in or the number of times that things had to be delivered outside and put next to the bins outside or or i've kept things in the car wheel arch just to avoid being spotted that there's a new pair of shoes or there's a new something something that or can you clock that's been ordered or something
00:27:57
Speaker
I think you then start trying to be a storyteller. Hey, this is interesting. You always got to start with a story. I get people, my friends rip into me sometimes because they're like, dude, you've talked for 10 minutes about this thing. We don't even know anything. You've just told us the story about it. You've not told us how much it costs. You've not told us why. I think that's the fun of it. It's absolutely vital.
00:28:21
Speaker
It's something I love. I enjoy absorbing it primarily. But then again, you think to yourself, sometimes when you're presented with a watch, for example, it's like, how do you tell the story of this thing? I mean, what's interesting about it? And I guess Simon Sinek, the old, the TED Talk legend, he will always say, start with why. And I think starting with why is the key point. No one wants the specs. No one wants the specs. They want the emotion of why something could be interesting to them.
00:28:48
Speaker
and how it's going to make them feel because these things that we love typically are things that make us feel a certain way. So you've got to have that front and center of your mind for sure. I want to make sure that we talk about your YouTube channel and
00:29:02
Speaker
the series that you have, the two watch collection, because I find it so amazing when all these collectors always show up and without fail, there's no chance that they're showing up with just two watches. It's nearly impossible. But it's such a common question that any collector gets asked, right? Everyone's always asking you to basically choose your favorite child. And I'd love to know what you think it is about
00:29:29
Speaker
people with issues like you and I, and people that love to collect, what is it about us that we just can't have just one of something? Yeah, it's such a, it's such a funny series, because I always get comments about it from people who say, hey, two watches is a collection, then someone's quoting the Oxford Dictionary of what a collection is. Can what's a collection to you? Are you a collector if you've got a few things in your mind?
00:29:52
Speaker
Yeah, for me, it's it's about having a passion to go out and learn about something whether you purchase it or not, right? Obviously owning something is what really is the physical being of a collection. But for me, it's about having the
00:30:09
Speaker
the necessity in your mind to go out and learn about something and have such an extended interest in something that you spend all this time thinking and learning and buying and selling and collecting and whatever it may be. People think it's a numerical thing, right? So many people have the mindset that
00:30:27
Speaker
Collecting means you have to have five of this or 10 of this or 50 of that. And I find it so off-putting when people feel that way because you can have one watch and 10 straps. You can have one vase that's really special and you change out the flowers in it. You could have one painting and you could have all these things, but I think when you have such an interest in it and you have this continued learning path, to me that is what makes a collector. And all the things when you own them and when it comes down to it at the end of the day and what you have to show for it,
00:30:56
Speaker
It's just a byproduct in a microcosm of that but i think it's a mindset having the heart and the sentiment to go out and just have interest in these things.
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. It is a mindset thing and people on that series, I think the reason I started it and the reason I'm curious by it is that coming back to that curation element, it's very hard to curate. It's very, very hard to curate. And if you've got to sometimes be quite brutal and to get people to have two watches, for most people in their lives, I mean, let's be clear, no one needs two watches in their lives.
00:31:29
Speaker
you know, to get down to two watches for some people who might have five or six or 20. It does take some courage, some discipline, and then you start to really critique what it is you've got. I've just done a couple this week, and there's a couple of really quite heartwarming stories about, you know, the family connections to these things. And that's where it gets really interesting to me, all the moments in which these things were bought to mark the moments and where they've, you know, what they've been through to
00:31:53
Speaker
during wearing them so yeah it's funny I agree so two watches is a collection and every one of the guests thankfully thus far has been passionate about the subject so I would definitely consider them to be collectors but
00:32:08
Speaker
Yeah, the YouTube has been great fun. I probably only started really spending and investing a lot of energy into it in the last 12 months. And there really is no objective to it other than just to create stuff that I wanted people to come back to in time. I felt the collection because I've always been deeply inspired by the Talking Watchers stuff from Hidinky over the years and the Watchbox series, the collective conversations they've started doing recently. And you know, those types of evergreen bits of content that
00:32:32
Speaker
To me actually seller watch you know hearing someone talking about ownership and what they've been through to get the thing and what they've been through with it that's really what sells a watch to me so. You know my mission for the two which collection is to have as many different types of people from different backgrounds and different stories different watches.
00:32:51
Speaker
high price point low price point I mean as an example this week I had a lovely lady who's an editor Scarlett and she writes for GQ and she writes for others and and she brought some swatches in and she bought a bacon swatch and she bought a cucumber swatch and and and you know there's limited series of swatches and you know and and her dad's
00:33:08
Speaker
Hoya Monaco. To me, that's just a lovely balance of different elements. That's the YouTube. It's probably the biggest YouTube channel ever. It's not going to be one that there's going to be lots of clickbait through. But I'd like to think it will be a solid environment that people can keep coming back to. I'm trying to refine
00:33:29
Speaker
what the videos look like and feel like as well. They're far from perfect, but over time I hope that people can come back to the early ones and have a chocolate as to how they looked and felt.
00:33:40
Speaker
I love it. Before we wrap it up with the collector's room rundown, I want to make sure that I mention another endeavor of yours, which is the watch annual. And it's a collection of books.
Introducing The Watch Annual
00:33:50
Speaker
And I would love for you to just explain to everybody the impetus behind all these books that you do every year. And it's a collection of posts and from individuals and give everyone a little briefing on that.
00:34:02
Speaker
That's very kind. Yeah, we started this my friend James Allen who runs the creative agency here in London called birch. We started this, you know, during COVID just just as code was kicking off and we actually wanted to make a city guy to watch city guide for people to come to London and they could
00:34:18
Speaker
use a city guide to go and find some interesting workshops. But we then realized when the place was locking down that this would not be the optimal time to launch a city guide. And he throws clothes. So we then said, I just immediately thought, you know what, it'd be really interesting to have a book that kind of encapsulated a moment in time, i.e. a year of watches through the voices and the imagery of the watch community. And so this idea of the watch annual was born. And really, it was
00:34:45
Speaker
initially 40 watches, 40 different people. And these kind contributors sent me an image of the watch they liked the most in the year that the watch had to be made available in that year. And then just alongside their image, their thoughts on the watch. And that's really
00:35:00
Speaker
the premise. Amongst that, we thought we'd be interesting to have some CEO letters in there. So we had some CEO letters. We have a CEO letters of the year that the CEO themselves has had. So we've had, you know, AP, CEO, IWC, CEO, Debathun, Urwork, you know, big brands and smaller brands. And it's really in their voice.
00:35:21
Speaker
And then the key thing here is that this is for the community, from the community. And we also wanted it to be a charitable thing. So an element of the takings, a percentage, a £2 of every book sold, goes to a new charity every year. We've done lots of stuff with Red Cross over the years and others. And the other thing is that the book never has had an advert in it. So there's never been a brand advertising to support the project.
00:35:47
Speaker
So it's been really fun. And this year we're in our fifth year. We've had limited editions with Mr. Porter over the years and Nataporta, and it's been stopped at the Armory and Drake's and other cool shops and trunk in London. So, you know, we've been really lucky. It's been a great, it's been a great run and I still pinch myself every year. And I have to say all credit goes to the contributors because without their kindness, giving us the image to use in their words, the book wouldn't exist.
00:36:13
Speaker
It's lovely that everybody feels ownership of it. It's certainly not me and it's not James and Kieran who run it now. All right. You know the drill here. I'm going to ask these questions. You can answer them based on any of the things that you collect, so feel free to give it a go. Sound good? Yeah. All right. What's the one that got away? There isn't one. There is not one that's got away. I'm at ease with everything that has been bought and sold over the years. I love that. Collecting bliss.
00:36:42
Speaker
The on deck circle, what's next for you in collecting maybe something you're hunting or something you're looking after.
00:36:49
Speaker
I'm obsessively hunting right now an Hermes porcelain tray. I think they make some of the most beautiful trays made in Paris, but sold all around the world. And I just, I'm lusting after one so deeply to sort of collect things, to put things on, to shoot for films. So that's what I'm after right now. Hermes tray, porcelain. Put it into the ether.
00:37:13
Speaker
The unobtainable, so this is one that's too expensive or in a museum, a private collection, it's just complete unobtainium.
00:37:20
Speaker
I would say right now a Patek Perpetual Calendar 3448, the first serially produced self-winding Patek is a vintage watch. It's just beautifully crafted. I'm not a huge Patek guy, but that particular reference is really special right now in my mind. And it's running into the hundreds of thousands of dollars. So I just don't think that's something that's currently on the radar.
00:37:47
Speaker
Understood. The page one rewrites, so if you could collect anything besides watches, money is no object, what would it be? Absolutely furniture, mid-century furniture. I've worked with, for years, I worked with Brun Rasmussen in an auction house in Denmark, and my obsession for mid-century furniture, particularly in ash. I love the light wood ash furniture. It'd be Hans Wegner furniture coming out my eyeballs. In fact, I dream of a warehouse full of mid-century furniture.
00:38:16
Speaker
The GOAT. So who do you look up to in the collecting world? So he's a guy I've never met actually, but I love Matt Jakobson. He's been on Talking Watchers over the years and he's done interviews. He's just a guy who appreciates design and I've always enjoyed his energy. He lives on the beach in Manhattan Beach there in California.
00:38:35
Speaker
I love the way he's able to balance off all these things in his life, be it, you know, a successful career at META and other things, but yet, you know, he takes a real interest in his clothing and design, Japanese inspiration, photography, watches. The ocean, all of those things coming together, I think that dude, I look in from a distance anyway. I don't look to many, I have to confess, I don't look to many in an idealistic fashion, but he's one I observe on closely. The hunt or the ownership, which one do you enjoy more?
00:39:04
Speaker
without shut of a doubt, hon. That seems to be the more common answer here, but once in a while we get the ownership. Most importantly, Jay, do you feel that you're born with the collectors, Gene?
00:39:18
Speaker
100%, 100%. Yeah, I had no doubt. You know what I was thinking, Cam, is I was thinking, as a kid, I used to just love Roman Emperor coins. I've never talked about this in my life before, but when I was growing up, I used to go on eBay and buy Roman Emperor's coins, and I tried to collect all the Roman Emperors. I actually had an Excel spreadsheet when I was about 13 trying to collect all these Roman Emperor coins.
00:39:41
Speaker
And at the time, it felt completely normal. I never told anybody about it, anybody about it. And now I'm talking about it. And now I realize you've had a problem for a long, long time. A long, long time. Well, I'm right there with you. I love it. Justin, thank you so much for coming on Collector's Dream Radio. I look forward to getting together with you in London sometime soon and chatting about all this stuff a little bit more. Cam, thank you so much for having me on, dude. Really enjoyed it. Really a pleasure and look forward to seeing you in person soon.
00:40:11
Speaker
Alright, that does it for this episode. Thank you all for listening to collector's gene radio