Transcript
Tom Evans: Okay.
Tom Evans: Hello and welcome to episode two of the Last Hour Cricket Podcast, the podcast with all the gear and no idea. Now I had an email after episode one saying that our podcast, Jamie, was ranked as number 144 in the UK for sports podcasts.
Jamie Bowman : That sounds good, doesn't it?
Tom Evans: but That does sound good, doesn't it?
Jamie Bowman : That sounds pretty
Tom Evans: You know where that puts us in terms of cricketers? According to the ICC's test cricket rankings, we are the Josh Inglis of cricket podcasts.
Jamie Bowman : good.
Jamie Bowman : I'll take that.
Tom Evans: ahll' I'll take that, yeah.
Jamie Bowman : I'll take that. Yeah, yeah.
Tom Evans: Yeah, I had to sort of splice the batters and bowlers together because they don't they only go down 100. And when I first did it, I thought we were the Marco Janssen of cricket podcasts, which i was I was made up with that. Then I realised it was his batting rating.
Tom Evans: but i'm But jo Josh Inglis, I know he's only just getting started, but so are we, you know, so it's a it's definitely a platform to build on. yeah I'm Tom Evans from Murderside Cricket Online with me as ever as Jamie Bowman. How are you doing, Jamie?
Jamie Bowman : I'm good, Tom. Thanks. Looking forward to get some lovely feedback from the first one.
Tom Evans: Good. Good.
Jamie Bowman : So thank you to everyone who messaged us and, you know, said said we did a good job for on our first one. We're looking forward to to to this episode. So, yeah, pleased, pleased to keep going with this.
Tom Evans: Yeah, good stuff. And we're joined by our guests for this episode. He's the man who is the chairman of Wavertree Cricket Club, a long-time volunteer with the Liverpool Cricket Development Group, joint founder of Academy North, and this is his words, not mine, by a country mile, the least talented cricketer ever to follow Carl Brown.
Tom Evans: He is, of course, Phil O'Brien. How are you doing, Phil?
Phill: That's splendid mate. Thanks for having us on fellas.
Tom Evans: Because so speaking of Josh Inglis, another Yorkshireman like myself who's moved away from God's Own County.
Phill: Yeah, but aren't the Merseyside crew fortunate mate to have us both.
Tom Evans: Absolutely, yeah. yeah The weather's turned nice, hasn't it? it's It's going to absolutely chuck it down in two weeks, isn't it? I can tell.
Phill: it's an absolute nap mate this time last year we were pushing back the start of the season weren't we yeah
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Tom Evans: We were, yeah, I remember that, because there was just absolutely no chance of anyone. I think a lot of clubs didn't get on the pitch until May, did they?
Phill: yeah i mean
Jamie Bowman : No, we were underwater at Sefton. Yeah, it was yeah it was a nightmare last year. and Couldn't be more of a contrast, could it?
Tom Evans: No, it's the sunniest Saturday of the year and by quite a long way, I think, and the three of us are sat inside. Sat inside podcasting, which is obviously a great way of spending spending a sunny day
Phill: I think, Jamie, I don't know about you, mate, but I think it's probably a award-winning weather. What do you think, mate?
Tom Evans: Oh, guys.
Jamie Bowman : That's funny you should mention awards, Phil.
Phill: I think it's probably a award-winning weather. Yeah, I think so.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Phill: The kind of weather you probably want to win a trophy for, maybe.
Jamie Bowman : So, yeah.
Tom Evans: Look... I didn't want you to bring this up. i I tried to stop them from bringing this up, listeners, but I was delighted that the the Liverpool Echo, my my coverage of local cricket over the 2024 season, received an award, which I'm holding up to the camera. You can't see it, but they can, and that's the important thing.
Tom Evans: i'm For the Regional Newspaper of the Year and the ECB Domestic Cricket Journalism Awards, absolutely surreal. i've I've said it many times. I can't... it's generally weird. i was down at Lords on Tuesday to receive this trophy and having my name read out by Charles Dagnall and sort of going up in a room full of cricket journalists and former cricketers and current cricketers applauding and Yeah, it's an absolute, I can't get my head around it still, but thank you very much to everybody who's helped and supported me, including the two of you in particular.
Tom Evans: and But every every reader, everyone who's given me any advice or support or encouragement or a kick up the backside over the years, and really appreciate it. I love doing this and it's it's it's great to know that other people appreciate it too, so thank you.
Jamie Bowman : And and yeah I don't want to...
Phill: Mate, we're genuinely lucky to have you.
Jamie Bowman : I don't want to gag in on to get in on your success, Tom, but before your your your successive wins, I think I'm on there too.
Tom Evans: Well, thank you. Very kind of you.
Jamie Bowman : So it's it's it's a...
Tom Evans: You are, yes.
Jamie Bowman : yeah
Tom Evans: it goes From 2020, it goes Liverpool Echo, Bolton News, Liverpool Echo, Liverpool Echo, Liverpool Echo. So, yeah.
Jamie Bowman : We're kind of like and English clubs in the European Cup in the late 70s, aren't we?
Tom Evans: and as a
Jamie Bowman : It's...
Tom Evans: Yeah, I'm thinking more of the Glenn Maxwell-Pat Cummings partnership for Australia at the last World Cup, you know.
Jamie Bowman : it's
Jamie Bowman : But it's domination, anyway.
Tom Evans: but Pat Cummings really did his bit, you know.
Jamie Bowman : It's domination. And long may it continue.
Tom Evans: Absolutely, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and...
Phill: i think I think it's fantastic that both of your mothers are on that panel.
Tom Evans: Yes.
Phill: I think it's amazing.
Jamie Bowman : And talking of success at Lord's, we've had one of our own we've had one of our own making his debut for Lancashire at the home of cricket this week, haven't we?
Tom Evans: Yes.
Jamie Bowman : we should give a shout out Ollie Sutton, shouldn't we?
Tom Evans: Yes.
Tom Evans: We absolutely should. It's a great achievement, especially given the circumstances of his one-day cup debut last year when he came on. think he bowled three balls. His second one took a wicket and his third one he pulled up with a side strain that ruled him out for the rest the season, which is obviously gutting for the lad. So I know how pleased if you everyone at Formby is and how proud they all are that a lad has been with the club since I think under nine's level has gone on to make his first-class debut at loads of all places. and Yeah, he's got a couple of wickets yesterday as Lancashire made a decent start to their promotion campaign.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, he bowled really well in a spell after lunch where Lancashire really turned it round after a tricky start. And yeah, you were you really yeah he really really performed well. And yeah, I know we saw lots of messages from Formby on social media, how proud they are and you know a proud day for the comp too. It's always great when a homegrown player makes his first-class debut.
Tom Evans: Yeah, he's a bit low down the card, isn't he? um'm I'm sort of surprised that
Jamie Bowman : Well, you know, tell us a bit about i mean tell us a bit about him because some people might not have seen him play. You know, he's a decent all-rounder, you reckon?
Tom Evans: he's... Yeah, he sees he's very big hitting all round. Opening the batting, certainly Formby, certainly I know it's the best the best batting track in the region, but he and Ian Cobain, the captain, opening the batting for Formby last year were...
Tom Evans: going great guns. though They were sort of neck and neck at the top of the run charts together. Obviously, Oli's injury curtailed his season somewhat, but...
Tom Evans: Yeah, Lancashire clearly picked him picked him to bowl. But I think the way we saw with Josh Bohannon, who was originally, i think he came into the Lancashire side 2018, 2019, batting eight and nine, I think.
Jamie Bowman : Thank you.
Tom Evans: and And it's slowly, you know, because he bowled as well. But, you know, that that that side of his game has taken over. So it'll be interesting to see how it goes with with Oli if, as we as we all all hope he does, he gets gets a decent run in the side.
Tom Evans: Is he someone you've you've come across much in the past, Phil, in your work with juniors cricket?
Phill: good Very much on the periphery. I don't know the guy. i know i know people who play with him and they speak very highly of him as a human being, which means as much to me as anything, mate.
Tom Evans: Yeah, yeah. It's kind of what you need when you get a setback like he had last summer. To so be able to bounce back is a great great achievement.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, so well done, Ollie. Double success at Lord's, eh, Tom?
Tom Evans: yeah. I didn't quite make my first class debut,
Phill: So did the the man on the gates at large, did he recognise you? Are you known now? Because you keep winning these awards, mate.
Tom Evans: No, i I wasn't entirely sure how to get there from the tube station. Then I saw Mark Butcher, so I followed Mark Butcher, and he led me to the... From a distance, like I didn't want to have to make awkward conversation with him, but he led me straight to the gates.
Jamie Bowman : I was going to say, that's a bit silly,
Phill: He's come down in the world since his career and if he's an now a tour guide mate.
Jamie Bowman : Nick.
Tom Evans: An inadvertent tour guide.
Tom Evans: I guess another bit of big news in the local cricket scene, particularly for your club, Jamie, Sefton Park, is the yeah the announcement of the squads and the the the the Lancashire women's players who are going to be assigned to the sides in the in the Thunder Cup this year.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, yeah. And a really interesting sort of new tournament that Lancashire have come up come up with.
Tom Evans: you.
Jamie Bowman : So the idea is that this is the inaugural Thunder Cup. There's going to be eight competing clubs from across Lancashire for for women. And Sefton Park's been chosen as one, along with Lee from the Liverpool Comp.
Jamie Bowman : The other clubs are lin Lindo, Ramsbottom, Edgeworth, Leyland, Stockport, Georgians and Didsbury. And the idea is that those existing women's clubs are going to be sort of bolstered by professional players who play for Lancashire at the moment, as well as players from the Lancashire Academy.
Jamie Bowman : And yeah, Sefton very excited to learn that they're going to get Lancashire captain Ellie Frelkeld, who we all know and well from her connections with Rainford and Sophie Morris as well.
Jamie Bowman : who another local player, you know, really promising spin bowler, left arm slow bowler. He looks a business, has been doing really well at Upton.
Jamie Bowman : So, yeah, I think we're all very excited at Sefton, how they're going to integrate with our existing players. And obviously our players are going to learn off them.
Jamie Bowman : And, yeah, it's a really exciting move. And I think it just shows... I think Lancashire have really committed to to women's cricket. they've they've they've really you know though Despite the fact they've not actually done that well on the pitch, they've really put their money where their mouth is when it but it comes to supporting women's cricket in the county. And yeah, we're all very excited to see yeah to see those players playing playing at Croxteth Drive.
Tom Evans: Amelia Lamb, who's on the books, are Newton la Willows and Martha Rimmer, the two academy players who've gone to Sefton, whereas Lee have Olivia Brinson from the academy, Danielle Collins, who has turned out for Lee's women's team in the past, and Grace Potts as well, going to Lee. So that's the Liverpool Comp two representatives in the Thunder Cup, and it'll be interesting to see how it how it plays out. it's a real It's a real growth area of the game, isn't it, Phil?
Tom Evans: women Women's cricket, women's and girls' cricket in particular.
Phill: Tom, I think it's fascinating. So I completely applaud it. It's putting pressures on the establishment to start and think about how they're operating effectively.
Phill: And i I welcome all that. Pitch availability is an interesting one. you know i I don't think it will be long before there starts to be pressure on first team grounds and questions asked about why do men get to use them and women don't get to use them.
Phill: I think that that's on its way. Just rewinding a little bit, actually, the way that Lancashire went about appointing these clubs, I think was fascinating and I really applaud that.
Phill: They invited people to tender. Clubs were invited to tender. And, you know, full disclosure, we tended at Wavertree. I thought it was a brilliant process.
Phill: The idea that we'll have eight or ten, inverted commas, centres of excellence, and we'll drive resource there and we'll invite people to be attracted to there because that's where they can become better and experience a higher standard of cricket.
Phill: It's it Other sports have been doing that for a very, very long time. i think it's taken the women's game to show us that as a way forward. I'll be really interested to see if something similar emerges in the men's game as a way of developing talent.
Phill: So, yeah, I completely applaud the process and already have privately, but would like to publicly congratulate Sefton Park and wish them all the best.
Tom Evans: Thank you.
Phill: I think they'll do an amazing job. Good people.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, you're right, Philip. it it was It was a pretty strenuous process, wasn't it? I know the the ladies at our club had to kind of go and do a presentation and and really talk about their plans for the club and and what they'd done. I mean, we we were confident, I think, because we'd won the Lancashire Knockout Cup last year. We were confident, you know, we'd be seen as one of the best best clubs. But considering the...
Jamie Bowman : It's almost been a whirlwind, really. It's only six five, six years, really, since we even gave women's cricket a fort at the club. And a couple of people turned up to a first training session. And here we are with...
Jamie Bowman : you know professional players playing at the club. It really is incredible. And I know Wavertree obviously are doing fantastic things there with the women's cricket as well. My daughters, both my daughters play, are absolutely loving it and they're buzzing about the idea that Ellie Frailcow is going be playing at the club. The girl they've asked for an autograph at Lanxia Games. So it's yeah it's see it seems all positive and you know, that's that that's see let's see how it goes this summer.
Jamie Bowman : And it'd be it be really, as you say, be really excellent if some of some of that kind of attitude robs off on men's cricket, I think. You know, using the established cricket clubs in the region as a kind of way of integrating ye professional players.
Tom Evans: Thank you.
Jamie Bowman : and Because we do have these gaps now, don't we, in in in the season where if you're not playing in the 100 or you're not playing in the in the in the blast or you're not you know you know ah you're an academy player.
Jamie Bowman : There's big gaps when you're not playing competitive cricket now. So be it'd be great if some of that rubs off on the the men's game. You're dead right, Phil.
Tom Evans: cricket is kind of unique in the way that sort of the the professional game is so in touch with with the recreational slash semi-pro game, isn't it? You know, we we you get sort of professional players coming back to their clubs at various times in the season. And, you know, it's I think it's really it's really good for cricket that it has that kind of connection still.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, definitely.
Tom Evans: And obviously this is a way of sort of but bringing the same kind of philosophy into the and and so the women's game. And it's, it's like i say, it's interesting that they've gone with this sort of way of having players, you know, professional players assigned to sounds of these clubs. And they've they've tried to do it sort of by geography as much as possible and also by sort of spreading the skills around. So obviously Ellie Threlkeld as a Rainford player and Sophie Morris as an Upton player have sort of gone to the guns to the Liverpool club.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, definitely.
Tom Evans: And it's good to...
Jamie Bowman : There's some this them geographical, yeah.
Tom Evans: It's good to say that the...
Phill: I mean...
Jamie Bowman : There was definitely, but we do feel like we've locked out a bit. We've got really some really good players.
Tom Evans: Yeah.
Jamie Bowman : I suppose that just shows the strength of Liverpool women's cricket at the moment.
Tom Evans: Yeah.
Phill: and I was just going to say, it's year one. think There'll be things that aren't splendid this year and people just need to cut it a little bit of slack, and give it an opportunity to to learn it learn its lessons, to settle in and bed in.
Tom Evans: Mm-hmm.
Phill: I'm excited about it. fair play really Really, congratulations to the establishment on doing it this way.
Tom Evans: Yeah, and it'll be interesting to say see how it all goes down. it's it's a Speaking of grassroots cricket, Phil, it's sort that's an interesting time at Weyretree at the moment, isn't it? Do you want sort of tell us a few things about what's what what's going on there?
Phill: Yeah, i so we've got a really exciting couple of years ahead of us, Tom. And I'm choosing to frame it in that way. After 171 years of being a tenant on our ground, we've we have the opportunity to gain control of the site. And it's an opportunity we're going to work so hard to try and grasp.
Phill: that there is a potential dark cloud that if we're not able to do it, and the terms of our our our lease will become what I believe is a, it's threatening to our sustainability and longevity on the site.
Phill: So yeah, so we've got 18 months of fundraising to raise a couple of hundred thousand pounds. And, and you know, for a small organization like ours, it would be easy to be daunted by that.
Phill: But that's that's not our approach to it. Our approach is let's let's try and find some ways.
Jamie Bowman : they?
Jamie Bowman : You've had a number of meetings and you're trying to get the kind of residents on board with with the fact that, you know, there's a cricket club on their doorstep that's been there for 170 years and you want that to continue and you want them to be involved.
Phill: Yeah, thanks. Thanks, Jamie. We have, but that hasn't that's not a process that started because of this. We've been a club that's begun to thrive over the last... Thrive in a different way, because it was always a healthy club.
Phill: But we've begun to thrive in a different way of the last 10 years or so because we've looked outside the four walls and we have seen ourselves as as you know an integral part of the community.
Phill: Now, and what's really clear is that the community Liverpool 15 are super fond of us, super fond of us. And there we we have held public meetings over the last couple of weeks, basically to to alert the community about the fact that but there is an existential risk to cricket at Sandown Lane.
Phill: You know, and there's a There's a pattern in Wavertree of cricket fields and cricket clubs stopping being cricket fields.
Phill: you know
Jamie Bowman : Mm-hmm.
Phill: I reckon within a mile of Wavertree Cricket Club, there are five sites that used to host cricket clubs. So, yeah, so and i what I am told by people are more experienced than me about raising this kind of money is that we have to keep our story in the public eye, okay?
Phill: So talking to local residents and getting their reminiscences of the cricket club, getting their views about our our plan to move forward and raise the money, their views on what the site could be in the future is really important in keeping our narrative going.
Phill: But also we know that at some point we'll need to apply for some funding as part of this fundraising and One of the things that's absolutely central to all funding applications is what do your community feel about you.
Phill: But yeah, people are super fond of it. Since we put our cricket nets on the playing field over the road, and like for example, the the residents are really interested in what we're doing with the blind and visually impaired section.
Phill: and It's very common when we have our practices with the blind and visually impaired cricketers on a Friday night for for the same residents, the same dog walkers to come and have a chat. and So there is a there is a connection between the club and the community yeah and that's important.
Phill: In fact, I'd say that's part of our DNA as a club mate.
Jamie Bowman : It's interesting, isn't it?
Tom Evans: It's a,
Jamie Bowman : i I think clubs that are based in a inner city area it face a unique set of problems, don't they? It's kind of, you know, there's always there's always that spectra of house building, isn't there?
Jamie Bowman : Or people people wanting land and, and you know, you have houses on, you know, all sides of you and you're in an urban area. It can be it can be it can be a difficult position for a club, kind it as as opposed to some of those more traditional village clubs that have been, you know, are surrounded by fields. And it's it's a problem Waverture have, isn't it?
Phill: so You could choose to frame it that way, Jamie, but because there's houses man there means there's people there.
Tom Evans: Thank you.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, yeah.
Phill: And if there's people there, there's cricketers there and there's supporters and there's volunteers.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, yeah. yeah
Phill: And, you know, I guess if you've got a rural cricket club, your you know, your population base is smaller and that. So what you're not going to get from me is you're not going to get me talking about how hard this is.
Phill: and what a difficult situation we're in and how badly done to we are. That's not who we are. we've we've got We're we've got our heads up, and we've set ourselves 18 months, two years to raise this money.
Phill: And it could change the club. you know if we're If we're no longer having to pay rent every year, you know that money can go into improving the facility. if we have a long-term lease, we can invite Carl Brown down to to large changing rooms at Wavertree.
Jamie Bowman : Mm-hmm.
Phill: God, notice last day he complained about small changing rooms.
Tom Evans: yeah
Phill: and And I was actually thinking
Tom Evans: he didn't He was very careful not to name any clubs in particular, but did did did did you feel targeted by that, Phil?
Phill: no No, no, I can completely out ourselves, mate. I was thinking I might invite him to lead to playing a friendly at Wavertree. And that way, he'll realise what a small changing room is and he can enjoy the changing rooms in the Premier League.
Phill: But yeah, so but not nice and our change rooms are but to the away changing room is a disgrace in terms of its size. But we haven't had a lease for 30 years. we've not We haven't been able to do anything with the physical fabric of the place.
Phill: Because and despite all the prize money that that you've won, Tom, I wouldn't spend your money on developing buildings at Wavertree because we haven't got a lease and it could be taken off us.
Phill: So yeah.
Tom Evans: who So it's the idea to, you know, hopefully the vision is that you you raise this money, to be able to buy out the current owners of the land and then you can start sort of spending what you're saving on rent, on doing the place up, on on facilities and and things like that.
Phill: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I mean would like to go on record and say that our landlord, our landlord, that they're good people. We understand their position.
Phill: this is not a This is not an aggressive, let's get rid of cricket from Weaver Tree.
Tom Evans: Thank
Jamie Bowman : Mm-hmm.
Phill: So, the I've got a lot of respect for them. And I understand their position. When we're successful at doing this, the model will be that there are a lot of of of buildings on that site that we don't use.
Phill: We would love to turn some of them into a ground for floor pavilion that and into fit for purpose changing rooms. And then there will still be lots of room for us to lease out to businesses.
Phill: That would be our model.
Tom Evans: Mm-hmm.
Phill: And we're, where we're playing around actually with the idea of putting the whole site into the hands of a community interest company, because if we're successful at doing what we're doing, there will be an income that can come in from those buildings that will be,
Phill: will be way more than a cricket club needs and could be used for the benefit of sport and recreation in L15 wider, not just cricket.
Phill: So we're just, we're exploring that at the moment, but it just conscious that we need to raise some money before we have big plans.
Tom Evans: It's obviously a long way off, but you know you got to look to the got to look to that future, haven't you?
Jamie Bowman : I will think, yeah.
Tom Evans: And sort of sell the sell the idea to people, I guess. And that's how you're going to raise the raise the money that you need to get by to get the first stage out of the way.
Phill: Yeah, I mean, keeping a cricket club in the heart of Wavertree that's been there for 171 years, it's a little bit like Mother of an Apple Pie. and like We ain't finding people who going, oh, no, that's a terrible idea.
Phill: So people like the idea, OK? We, at this generation of governance at the cricket club, have a super exciting opportunity to secure that site for cricket,
Phill: forever, for as long as anybody wants to play cricket. Because once we get that asset, we are a registered charity. So those assets can only be used for our charitable purpose.
Phill: So that's but I think that's a super opportunity for this existing governance at the club to leave a long-lasting legacy for the people of Wavertree.
Phill: And I think the people of Wavertree will support us with that. If I may... One of our initial fundraising efforts is going to be a community lottery.
Phill: and So we're going to launch a community lottery. We're hoping that... People in the in the cricket community and in Wavertree and wider will buy into our vision of wanting to secure the cricket club and think that a 10 pound stake a month might be something that they're prepared to do.
Phill: we We think people are fond of us in the cricket community widely. And so that's one of our, that will will be one of our initial ways of trying to get funding.
Phill: We've got a nine month nine- month initial strategy of raising money that will involve a lot of the traditional fundraising methods not because we think car book sales and family funders are going to raise a significant pots of money but they will keep us in the public eye they will keep our campaign going and then we're going to follow that with a crowdfunding campaign and throughout the whole of that period We have got a team of people who are looking for benefactors who'd be sympathetic to our cause and businesses who'd who'd rather donate to a charity than pay extra corporation tax.
Phill: So if there's anyone out there listening, who's in any way disposed towards the idea of supporting us as a club, please get in touch. And then we we're we're anticipating there being a shortfall.
Phill: And I've already had meetings with social investment vehicles and banks about what what it would cost us and what we would have to do in order to borrow and any shortfall.
Phill: um
Jamie Bowman : Do you think, Phil, do you think that uncertainty about the ground and off the pitch has affected, you know, the tea you know you the the the team, the way you've played or, or you know, your on-field success?
Tom Evans: Thank you.
Jamie Bowman : Because I know we're we're in a not dissimilar situation at Sefton and and and basically it it just seems we're always worried about financial issues rather than perhaps the team itself, you know.
Jamie Bowman : So it does I think it does affect things, doesn't it?
Phill: and
Phill: If it has, i haven't got a measure of that, Jamie.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Phill: You know, I think we've got... that We've got a pretty different metric, I think, to a lot of people. we have a trade you know we're We're full of people who've come through our junior system.
Phill: wait If people people are smiling on a Saturday night, we're happy as a club.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Phill: Do you know...
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Phill: and
Jamie Bowman : yeah
Phill: yeah we've We've had moments where the the coincidences of when your players get married and or when your players' wives have babies have meant that we've kept a significant number of our own players for a significant period of time and then we've had a period the first division.
Tom Evans: Thank
Phill: and but we've all we've We've also had times when we've been fighting relegation out of the Southport, into the Southport League. Our answer is never to throw money at it because we don't have an independent source of income that can sustain that.
Phill: And it it too many clubs, in my opinion, have thrown money from an and unsustainable source of income at success on the field, perhaps got success on the field, then the money's gone, and then what do they do?
Phill: Their second team has ended up having to play a standard of cricket that's too high for them. That's not fun. So I think for us, we've got a philosophy about our cricket that's robust and sustainable.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Phill: I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you we're going to win cups or win leagues this year, but we're going to grow from three Saturday teams to four Saturday teams this year, and I'm confident we'll do that successfully. You know, and we'll turn out, we'll turn out across five teams at the weekend, we'll probably turn out 48, 49 unique cricketers most weeks, every one of whom will paid their match fee and paid their membership.
Phill: And I don't think many clubs hand on heart can say that. And
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Phill: That's about who we are as a club.
Tom Evans: Thank you.
Phill: And it's fine for other clubs to choose to do it in a different way.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Phill: I respect their right to do that. I'm not...
Jamie Bowman : It's very
Phill: No.
Jamie Bowman : <unk>s a very Yeah, there's very there's two ways of looking at its success, isn't there? And I totally agree with you. Success doesn't necessarily mean winning all the time, does it? Success can mean, as you say, happy people, a happy club and and and, you know, boys and girls getting out on the pitch.
Phill: No.
Phill: When I put a member a message out to members saying there's something significant happening at our club, can you all book yourself onto one of four Zoom calls next week and I'll keep you for 15 minutes and 110 people do that.
Jamie Bowman : Hmm.
Phill: I think that's a sign that we've got a healthy club.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, definitely.
Phill: Yeah.
Jamie Bowman : Well done. Good.
Tom Evans: its it's The issue of clubs, particularly at Division 2, Division 1 level, but in the Prem as well, the issue of clubs throwing money at players is probably the one thing that gets raised more than any other when I'm getting feedback from from people around the clubs. it's it It can be really divisive, can't it? Like you say, that that there are there are two kind of approaches, isn't there?
Tom Evans: and You know, it's... it's It's not a question of what one being right and the other being wrong, i guess. It's more sort of what's right for for your club, the way you're set up and the way you're structured financially and the way how much money you've got to spend and what your priorities are, i guess.
Phill: I think i'm I'm a bit less woolly than that. Sorry, that's a bit that's a bit rude. didn't mean to say that, Tom. So a cricket club who has the income to pay cricketers to play recreational cricket, who are also serving the entirety of their membership well, who are respectful of the requirements of our governing body around safe and sustainable clubs, I have no problem with them spending money.
Tom Evans: Go for it.
Phill: Okay? At all. what Where else is it going to go?
Jamie Bowman : Thank you.
Phill: All right?
Tom Evans: Yeah, yeah.
Phill: I do have a problem. Okay? And this is where I... And this is Phil O'Brien. This is not a Waverture Cricket Club position. I do have a problem with cricket clubs who don't serve their members properly, who was who was might not have sight screens or covers, whose junior teams turn up to games without a coach,
Tom Evans: Mm-hmm.
Phill: I do have a problem with those clubs paying money to people. And I think it needs calling out because whilst they're under nines, under 11s, under I do not have a trained coach.
Jamie Bowman : Mm-hmm.
Tom Evans: No.
Phill: Their experience of cricket might not be what it should be. Their longevity in the game might not be what it can should be.
Tom Evans: no
Phill: Their conversion to playing of adults will be smaller. And I'm the, the sustainability of our sport is threatened by that, I think.
Tom Evans: it it does sound like you're sort of taking a really kind of positive and can-do attitude towards it. I think that that that's deliberate, isn't it
Phill: ah ah hundred percent 100% I've got two years of people saying no to me I know that I'm completely on board with the fact that a lot of people are going to say no And until that kind of fundraising counter ticks over from 1,999 to I'll continue to be robust in saying thank you anyway it's a shame you can help me It is a genuinely exciting opportunity to leave a legacy for future generations.
Tom Evans: Yeah.
Phill: Not many people have that privilege. The governance structure at Waverture presently have that privilege. And we're going to throw ourselves at it. And our membership. Our membership are behind us as well.
Jamie Bowman : Brilliant. and
Tom Evans: Okay, well, all the best, and I'm sure i'm the cricket community and in Liverpool and
Jamie Bowman : Good to hear.
Tom Evans: And Beyond will be we be right behind you because I think like you like you hinted at, there'll be a lot of clubs in a lot of clubs watching and thinking this could be us in a in a few years when when our lease is up or when our landlord gets an offer he can't refuse. Good
Phill: Yep. Yep. Yep.
Tom Evans: stuff. Well, I've got some something exciting to introduce the podcast this this week. and We have a new feature. Now, we're start talking about you know getting young people engaged in cricket and you know how a how important it is to you know to showcase the sport to the younger generation. And wouldn wouldn't it be nice to sort of see cricket again through the eyes of a child, as I'm sure you know that I did when I when i was young, watching watching watching cricket when I was growing up, and I'm sure you two as well. So what I've done is,
Tom Evans: I've taken videos of great moments or eventful, impactful moments from from cricket in history. And I've shown them to my 17-year-old daughter, who she understands cricket.
Tom Evans: she She gets it. she she's She's played a bit before. She knows who some of the players are. But she doesn't... Not not at the same extent that an award-winning cricket writer gets the game, or his podcast co-host, or a volunteer and cricket chairman of many years standing.
Tom Evans: So what I've done is I've recorded my daughter, Millie, commentating on these these cricketing events, and your job, you two, you can buzz in, is to guess what event Millie is talking about.
Jamie Bowman : Fantastic.
Tom Evans: So pick a number between...
Phill: Can I just clarify before we start, is this actual on-field cricket?
Tom Evans: This is, it's not club cricket. It's all, they're all international level.
Phill: right Okay, just wanted to make sure it couldn't involve people picking up awards, that was awesome.
Tom Evans: No, no, no. and no No one commentates on awards. it's just it's It's clear who's happening.
Phill: Okay.
Tom Evans: what What's happening when someone picks up an award is that the person who's the best is getting the award. And that that's all is to it. You know you don't need a commentator. it's It's obvious what's happening. So I've got 10 clips ready to roll. So Phil, you're guest. Pick a number between one and 10.
Phill: Six, or maximum, if that was helpful.
Tom Evans: Six. Okay.
Jamie Bowman : Maximo.
Tom Evans: but We're not calling it Maximo.
Jamie Bowman : yeah
Tom Evans: That's not really a thing for this podcast. Let me just, it's just loading. Right.
Tom Evans: Okay. Millie sometimes operates from the Richie Benno principle of letting the pictures tell the story, you know, but feel free to buzz in anytime. I will, I will let you know when, when, when the clip is over.
Tom Evans: Okay. So it's a great moment, of so famous moment from international cricket. Ready? Ready?
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, go for it.
Jamie Bowman : That suggests a South African to me.
Tom Evans: I don't know what you're talking about
Tom Evans: but there's loads of people in there. I've got a fix. I've got a fix.
Tom Evans: during the
Tom Evans: Any ideas, anybody?
Jamie Bowman : yellow and green is it australia its involve australia then so
Tom Evans: must
Tom Evans: You've mentioned the names of two countries and you you're right with both of them.
Phill: Oh, so there's a famous incident in some one-day final or something, last ball, run out.
Jamie Bowman : oh oh is it is it when they is it when this yeah is it when they but got run out wasn't it when they got run out that ridiculous run out to win the world was it the semi-final
Phill: was involved, wasn't
Tom Evans: It was, yeah. I'm going to need a name of one of the two batters involved, otherwise I'm... Phil's
Phill: he?
Jamie Bowman : Oh.
Phill: Wasn't Sean Pollock involved?
Tom Evans: going with Sean Pollock. Jamie?
Jamie Bowman : Pollock.
Phill: Donald, Alan Donald.
Jamie Bowman : Macmillan? Macmillan?
Tom Evans: Alan Donald and Lance Klusner being run out of the the third third to last ball in the semi-final at Edgbaston, making it a tie.
Jamie Bowman : No, Donald. found
Tom Evans: Klusner, who had been absolutely incredible throughout that tournament, the 1999 World Cup, just had a brain fade at the worst possible moment. And they needed one to win and reach the final.
Tom Evans: And he just sort of tapped it just past the bowler and set off. And I think Alan Donald just sort of stood there thinking, what what are you doing once? But then if he'd set off, we have, we've all we've all been there in both, in both worlds.
Jamie Bowman : yeah we've all been there we've all been there
Tom Evans: We've also all all been the fielding side in that situation who made an absolute hash of a simple run out. And I think if Alan Donald had set off, then he would have made his ground. But anyway, yes, identified what Millie was talking about.
Jamie Bowman : yeah yeah that was good well excellent excellent
Tom Evans: is Well done. Now it's over to it's over to our guests for Dressing Room 101, which for new listeners is the feature where we invite our guests to share their little niche cricketing irritations, little niche cricketing bugbears that they want to banish to Dressing Room 101.
Tom Evans: And Jamie and I will will will we'll give our ruling.
Jamie Bowman : june
Tom Evans: Phil, have you got for us?
Phill: So this is Phil O'Brien's official application to the old fart club, right? So, you know, i there's only what I read these myself and think, you're a miserable so-and-so O'Brien, right?
Phill: So the first one first one is double appealing.
Jamie Bowman : you're a long friend and You're among friends, among friends.
Phill: I've appealed loudly to the umpire.
Tom Evans: Oh, okay.
Phill: The umpire hasn't given it, so I appeal again more loudly.
Tom Evans: I wonder if it's ever worked. Is this ever an example of an umpire? Oh, go on then.
Jamie Bowman : yeah
Phill: How is he? How is he? Once is enough. He knows his job, the umpire.
Jamie Bowman : I like that.
Tom Evans: Okay.
Jamie Bowman : i mean i mean You don't see it very often, but it is annoying.
Tom Evans: the lot of People getting carried away. People get carried away in the moment though, don't they? People...
Phill: So here's the thing. I'll let like a young buck who's excited and super competitive have it. But it's definitely going in 101 for like experienced cricketers are just trying to bully umpires.
Tom Evans: Yeah, yeah, where where it's where it's intimidating to the umpire. I definitely get that.
Tom Evans: There's a line between doing it for emphasis and doing it for intimidation, isn't there?
Phill: Even in my curmudgeonliness, I'm prepared to compromise and let the young book not go in 101.
Tom Evans: Jamie, any thoughts on this?
Jamie Bowman : but Well, I was going to ask Phil, what what what how should you appeal? what's the Is it a polite inquiry or is it, you know, do it is how would you prefer people to appeal?
Phill: but Just once. And I don't care whether they're, how's that, sir?
Jamie Bowman : Yeah. Simple. How's that? Yeah.
Phill: How's that, sir? Or would you care passing your judgment on whether his leg was adjacent umpire? Or even if you want to have an an aggressive single appeal, I'm fine with that.
Phill: But it's the double one. It's the one that goes, you didn't give it first time. If I shout louder, maybe you'll give it this time.
Jamie Bowman : Mm-hmm.
Tom Evans: It's done with the next appeal in mind though, isn't it? It's sort of as if to say, you didn't let us have that last one.
Phill: That's a level of cynicism.
Tom Evans: but That last one was so out, I appealed twice. That's how out the last one was.
Phill: so
Tom Evans: So you've got to give us this one.
Phill: a level of cynicism I don't associate with award-winning journalists.
Tom Evans: No, is this is my my observation of cricketers. Do you associate it with cricketers? In particular, fast bowlers.
Phill: think it's possible you might have something.
Jamie Bowman : I must apply a face the umpire. You don't like this. I presume you don't like the running towards the slips with your arm off appealing.
Phill: No. No.
Jamie Bowman : No. Okay. Right. like It's hard to argue with Phil on this one.
Tom Evans: It is hard to argue with it, yeah. yeah So it's just to be clear, it's appeal as much as you like, as loudly as you like, but only do it once.
Phill: Yeah, yeah.
Tom Evans: Yeah, okay. I can go with that. There you
Tom Evans: there you go. A dismissal for which no appeal was was required. did Did you have another?
Phill: Nice one.
Tom Evans: another
Phill: Oh, mate, how long have you got? and
Tom Evans: the last out The last hour can go on as long as it takes, as you know.
Phill: So fielding, I'm fielding on my team and there's always one person on your team that when the ball goes in the air towards you, shouts, catch it! It's like, oh Christ, is that what I'm going to do?
Tom Evans: now, come on.
Phill: Is that what I'm supposed to really?
Tom Evans: Nah, that's just so...
Phill: You know when the baller bowls a full toss, we don't shout onto the batter, hit it, do we?
Tom Evans: and let
Phill: Or the fielder runs to the boundary. We don't shout, pick it up, throw it in. Like, people know what they're meant to do in cricket.
Jamie Bowman : It's like, do your job. yeah
Phill: Yeah. Tom, ask a question. Tom, ask a question.
Tom Evans: No, I just think it's so instinctive. when you're out there you You must have done it, Phil, when you've been fielding. And the ball's spooned in the air towards mid-off, and you're wondering whether he's concentrating.
Tom Evans: And it's an important one.
Phill: Ask.
Tom Evans: You really need the wicket.
Phill: It's they difficult to argue.
Tom Evans: Come on, when you're bowling. You're saying when when you're bowling and the batter hits the ball up in the air, how could you not say catch it?
Phill: Well, these days, mate, because I'm going, oh, my back's hurting and my leg hurts and I'm too busy worried about myself, mate. Listen, I'm in an ivory tower of making curmudgeonly judgments.
Phill: Don't ask me to do justify how I behave, mate.
Tom Evans: i What do you think, Jamie?
Jamie Bowman : Well, i used to play i used to play with a player who you all know, Tom Price, James james Price. And James Pierce.
Tom Evans: Oh, the Lancashire fast guy.
Jamie Bowman : Oh, James Pierce. James Pierce. What I talking about?
Tom Evans: Oh, yeah, the former Echo Liverpool FC correspondent, yeah.
Jamie Bowman : And he, as you know, James has a lovely West Country accent. And whenever the ball went in the air, he didn't shout, catch it. He used to go, there it is. There it is.
Tom Evans: So it was just
Jamie Bowman : And I really liked that. It wasn't, well, it is.
Phill: wine
Jamie Bowman : And you'd think, well, there it is. Yeah. And you so, no, I think it's i think it's part of is's part of the sound of cricket, village especially yeah our level. I think it's the sound of cricket.
Jamie Bowman : I'm not having that one.
Tom Evans: But I think you hear it at all levels of cricket. I think you hear it in the stunt market and and international games as well. And I think for the spectators, well, it serves a purpose because you can't always tell as well as the cricketers can if the batter has skied it or if it's just sailing over the boundary.
Tom Evans: And I think when, you know, if the spinner's on, and the batter gives it a big heave, and the wiki keeper shouts catch, you can sort of pick something up in the tone of their voice of how realistic it is that Midon is going to be able to get round and cut it off and and catch it. I want i want to keep Fielder shouting catch it. I'm a fan of it, I'll be honest.
Tom Evans: So, sorry, Phil, but...
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, great.
Phill: I respect your right to be
Tom Evans: yeah Keep going, see if you can make it to one
Phill: So, have update I'm not going to make friends with this one, right? Club social media accounts that behave like the ticker tape at the bottom of Sky Sports News.
Tom Evans: I'm thinking back to the the winter survey I sent out, Phil, and I i wondered if that was you. Go on.
Phill: I just...
Tom Evans: when When I saw this response.
Phill: but Like, I get. Listen, Premier League cricket, like, it's a very, very high standard of cricket. Like, with some fantastic cricketers.
Phill: But, look, wear a trick, play third division cricket. And some of our peers in the league, their social media accounts are,
Phill: seem to imagine that they are in the Champions League in the and in in the way that they behave. i And this is some people who I'm very fond of, who I have this conversation with.
Phill: and
Tom Evans: Thank you.
Phill: I completely recognise I am very much lagging behind the times when it comes to social media accounts, announcing signings and all that kind of stuff.
Phill: But yeah, that's my bid not to have any friends in the Liverpool competition.
Tom Evans: I'm wondering if I should recuse myself from this one because when it comes to people making a bigger deal of of amateur cricket than is perhaps justified, then um'm I'm not really in a good position to talk myself, am I? high
Jamie Bowman : and And I also did Sefton social media accounts, so I can't talk because I do that stuff too.
Tom Evans: Because that's kind of...
Jamie Bowman : But yeah, signing...
Tom Evans: you do do signing it up Do you do signing videos, Jamie?
Jamie Bowman : We haven't done a signing video yet, no, no. I think that is... Well, purely because we haven't signed anyone. But if if we if we did, we probably would.
Tom Evans: five know
Phill: Do you know what?
Jamie Bowman : But I can...
Phill: yeah In a bid to appear less curmudgeonly and unreasonable, I have seen some really nice posts on people signing, but the way it's being communicated is it's clearly trying to make that the person feel special and welcomed to the club.
Phill: I think that's quite different.
Tom Evans: yeah yeah
Phill: I think that's quite different.
Tom Evans: You tend to get different a different tone on different social media platforms as well. I think on Facebook, you're more likely to get the everyone welcome so-and-so to the club. let's let let Let's make sure he feels welcome and that.
Tom Evans: Whereas on Twitter, you're going to get the new signing just dropped at 7pm today kind of thing. And like you know the little the the signing emojis and the big presentation.
Jamie Bowman : I'm scared to ask this.
Tom Evans: big presentation
Jamie Bowman : I'm scared to ask this, Phil, but how do you feel about TikTok videos?
Phill: I just feel ignorant about it, mate. I feel ignorant about it. I have no knowledge on which to be passing judgment. at It had occurred to me when I had this on my list, what you two guys did for a living.
Phill: This is like this is not like this is like the Partridge.
Jamie Bowman : We need this stuff. We need this stuff.
Phill: This is like the Partridge going to the gamekeeper and going, not sure about this, fellas.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Phill: Not sure about this.
Jamie Bowman : We need this stuff.
Tom Evans: I mean, it's it's useful as well.
Jamie Bowman : yeah
Tom Evans: so but when but when When you've got 40 plus clubs to to keep an eye on, it is useful when they announce signings on social media in general.
Phill: but As long as your lives met suppose your life's made easier, Tom, that's fine.
Tom Evans: but
Tom Evans: Well, that's the most important thing.
Phill: Yeah.
Tom Evans: I'm sure we can all agree. Yeah.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, I think we have to refuse this one, Tom. It's it's our lifeblood, isn't it?
Tom Evans: Yeah.
Jamie Bowman : Sorry, Phil.
Tom Evans: Absolutely. So, sorry.
Jamie Bowman : ael
Phill: yeah
Tom Evans: So, you're two on down here, Phil. So, did did did you have any more?
Phill: I see where this is going.
Tom Evans: was that how much How many have you actually got?
Phill: but i've got I've got some quick ones for you.
Tom Evans: Okay, we got we'll do with we'll do a lightning round, yeah.
Phill: Fast bowlers taking a bottle of water out with them onto the field, leaving it by the boundary to have a drink. Fine by that. Not taking it away with them at the end of the game.
Jamie Bowman : Phil, that really annoys me.
Tom Evans: Yeah, fine. Keep them coming.
Phill: and And then I have to be careful with this one. right Just wicket keepers.
Tom Evans: Just in general?
Phill: that
Tom Evans: The way they behave?
Phill: So i have to be got I'm responsible for a wicketkeeper, right?
Tom Evans: for
Phill: One of my progeny is a wicketkeeper. But all this scratching marks behind the wickets, like the inane things they say. Yeah, I'm not expected to make any friends with that comment.
Phill: What I will say is I enjoy nothing more in cricket than watching a wicketkeeper stood up to the stumps and and like doing a brilliant job. But yeah, that they're a unique breed and cricket wouldn't be the same without them.
Tom Evans: Yeah.
Phill: I don't really want them to go into one-on-one. But yeah, i just wanted to make the point.
Tom Evans: Just Wicked Keepers. You just had enough of them. You think they should just tone it down a bit? Is that...
Jamie Bowman : Well, we can't give him
Phill: yeah I have a lot of friends with wicketkeepers as well. So but there you go.
Tom Evans: Some of my best friends are wicket keepers.
Phill: and
Tom Evans: well Okay, I don't think we can let you have all all wicket keepers.
Jamie Bowman : well we target but
Tom Evans: yeah Someone's got to stop the ball.
Phill: I think that's still not an unreasonable judgment on your part.
Jamie Bowman : yeah
Tom Evans: So having had us pass judgment on you, Phil, it's time to time for you to to get your own back, basically, by stumping the hosts with some with some cricket trivia.
Phill: Okay, so I have a, like, the first one is, there's a quiz show in there with impossible questions on. So the first question is, can you name me a first class cricket, first class cricket 11 who were born in Liverpool?
Tom Evans: Good. Okay.
Phill: Okay, and I'm not letting you have Sefton and the world as part of that. And it's an impossible question because there aren't 11.
Tom Evans: Do
Phill: Okay, there aren't 11.
Jamie Bowman : There are.
Tom Evans: you want to take issue with that, Jamie?
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, there are.
Tom Evans: Having written an actual book about this very subject?
Jamie Bowman : So you're not giving you're not giving a Jersey side.
Phill: Do you reckon...
Jamie Bowman : It's got to be Liverpool.
Phill: Well, that was how framed the question, mate, yeah?
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tom Evans: So not Wirral, we're talking
Jamie Bowman : Well, I'll give you Tom.
Phill: No, you can't have Wirral.
Jamie Bowman : Right. I'll give you Tom.
Phill: You're not having Wirral, you're not having Sefton, you're not having Halton or St. Ellen's, Liverpool.
Jamie Bowman : I'll give you Tom Smith. Ex-Lancashire.
Tom Evans: Liam Naylor.
Phill: Okay.
Tom Evans: Liam Naylor's an international cricketer.
Tom Evans: don't think he's played first class, but he's played international.
Phill: Okay, so we we're done then, are we
Phill: we? Listen, and and I have that as my question, not to be mischievous. I just think it's fascinating, isn't it? If you were to look at the athletic percent potential, the athletic potential as expressed in other sports, and then you're going, what's happening with our system that we ain't producing cricketers?
Tom Evans: It is, yeah. Such a big...
Tom Evans: I
Tom Evans: i mean, Coey Jr.
Phill: Okay.
Tom Evans: I think was born in Liverpool.
Tom Evans: I think he was born to this side of the border.
Jamie Bowman : You'd be surprised, Phil, how many there were in the early days of cricket, and especially in the Victorian era.
Tom Evans: Yeah.
Phill: Well, I look forward to you surprising me.
Jamie Bowman : Victorian era, especially when Liverpool was, you know, really, really excelling as a city on the world stage. There was a lot of sort of gentleman players who played first-class cricket, believe me.
Jamie Bowman : So, there's been a few. There's certainly been a few.
Phill: I don't think there's been 11, Jamie. I have tried to do it. the by. By the by.
Tom Evans: I mean, are we we're talking about simply simply born within the city limits?
Phill: iine
Tom Evans: Because obviously, there if you live Bootle, if you live Widdness, you're probably going to come to the women's hospital
Jamie Bowman : i
Phill: Okay.
Tom Evans: to have your baby, I don't know, or Myrtle Street in the old days.
Phill: that There might be 11. There might be 11.
Tom Evans: There might be. Yeah.
Phill: There might be 15.
Tom Evans: yeah
Phill: If we ask the same question about people who've gone on to play professional rugby or people who've gone on to play professional football, the numbers are significantly greater, aren't they?
Tom Evans: It's easy, yeah.
Phill: And it's not me saying cricket's more popular or more important. Just going, the athletic potentials here in the city But there's something about the way we're structuring development for cricketers that's not supporting them to become first class, becoming professionals.
Tom Evans: Also, cricket cricket is more important, just putting that out there as well.
Phill: And then I've got another one that's a little bit...
Tom Evans: Have you got a proper question that we can actually answer?
Phill: When was the last time Merseyside played in the county championships?
Jamie Bowman : That's a good question.
Tom Evans: I mean,
Jamie Bowman : I didn't know they ever had.
Tom Evans: I don't know that they ever have.
Jamie Bowman : i so
Tom Evans: It's only recently been considered a like a county, like a metropolitan county. It's it's traditionally in the Lancashire borders. So if we're going back, like way back, then it's it's in Lancashire.
Tom Evans: And more recently, we haven't had sort of any any wacky counties. Durham were admitted to the championship in the early 90s, but before then it was 17 counties and it was pretty set in stone, I thought. So I'm going to say never. I'm going to say trying to trick us again.
Phill: So I think that's not an unfair claim on your part, Tom. However, in 2023, Merseyside played in the county championship of the visually impaired cricket league.
Tom Evans: Oh, good one.
Phill: Okay.
Tom Evans: Yeah, well done.
Phill: And that's that simply a question that allows me to shoehorn in a plea to the cricket community on Merseyside.
Tom Evans: Thank
Phill: At Waverture Cricket Club, we think we're the only cricket club in the country with its own visually impaired offer.
Tom Evans: you.
Phill: There must be visually impaired people who love cricket in people's networks. Please signpost them to us and explain to them that we've got a nice bunch of people who are playing the visually impaired version of the game at Wavertree and they would all be super welcome.
Phill: So yeah, a bit naughty, I'm sorry.
Tom Evans: Nope. Thank you for that. That's a good one. I should have thought outside the box a bit more there.
Phill: And I've got a proper question for you.
Tom Evans: A proper question. Okay. Go on
Phill: How many different ways can you bowl a no-ball?
Tom Evans: on. Okay. Right. Front foot, back foot,
Tom Evans: bent arm, height of over the batter's waist, yeah.
Jamie Bowman : height yeah uh bouncer
Tom Evans: Not pitching.
Phill: Do you want to go for more or less than five?
Tom Evans: more Front foot, back foot, bent arm, waist height and not on the not pitching on the on the pitch is a no ball as well, isn't rather than a wide? If it's that much a wide.
Phill: No ball with 0.
Tom Evans: So it's definitely more than time because knocking the stumps over and breaking the fielding restrictions, whether it's fielders in the circle or behind square on the leg side.
Jamie Bowman : oh what about knocking the stump not Knocking the stumps over, is that no ball now?
Phill: So you've gone beyond five there.
Tom Evans: but but
Phill: Do you think it's as many as ten?
Tom Evans: a
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, sounds about right.
Tom Evans: We've got seven without really having to work that hard. I don't know. Let me think. Oh, I suppose... If the bowler changes delivery, if he switches hands or comes round the wicket without telling the umpire, say, that would be a no ball.
Phill: Yeah.
Tom Evans: Fielder distraction, is that a no ball or is that dead ball? think that's probably a dead ball, isn't it? If the fielder's chatting to... Wicket keepers do that quite a lot, by the way.
Tom Evans: It's another reason to not like wicket keepers, Phil.
Jamie Bowman : yeah
Tom Evans: Talking when the bowling's running up. If I were overdoing that, then talking when the bowler's running up would definitely be in it.
Jamie Bowman : Well, so what have we got? Eight?
Phill: So I've ticked, well, read them off again and I'll tick them off.
Tom Evans: Okay. Front foot.
Phill: Yeah.
Tom Evans: Back foot.
Phill: Yeah.
Tom Evans: Bent arm.
Tom Evans: West high full toss, or above.
Phill: Yep.
Tom Evans: Not pitching on the strip.
Phill: Off the strip, yep.
Tom Evans: Knocking the stumps over.
Phill: Yep.
Tom Evans: Breaking the field in restrictions.
Phill: Yep.
Tom Evans: Bowling with a different action to the one that the umpire has announced. That's eight.
Phill: Yep.
Tom Evans: Any more, Jamie?
Tom Evans: There's probably loads of things that come under the the umbrella of no ball that nobody would ever do.
Jamie Bowman : now
Tom Evans: That's the thing.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, I can't think of any more. did You filled in restrictions you've had, haven't you? But behind, people behind, too many players behind leg side, would that be?
Tom Evans: I'm assuming that's within fielding restrictions. Is that...
Phill: yeah i ticked that one off for that yeah right i think
Jamie Bowman : Okay, okay.
Tom Evans: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Are calling it a day at eight?
Jamie Bowman : Yeah, go on.
Tom Evans: Go on, enlighten us.
Phill: you're halfway i think you're halfway there i think you're halfway there so yeah you might have said some of these and if you are i apologize bold boun ball bouncing more than twice before reaching the popping crease
Tom Evans: well Halfway. thanks There are eight more ways of bowling a no-ball.
Tom Evans: Halfway. Yeah, of course. that thought thought That's one we've seen a lot and like park cricket, yeah.
Jamie Bowman : Of course.
Jamie Bowman : That's my best ball, that.
Phill: and
Tom Evans: Can't believe they outlawed it.
Phill: whiff
Jamie Bowman : Yes.
Phill: am At the risk of sounding obsessed, wicketkeeper taking the ball in front of the stumps.
Tom Evans: That's a no ball, is it? Okay.
Phill: Oh gosh, I hope the panels there award the judging panel are not listening to that, Tom. i think Surely you wouldn't be winning the awards if you didn't.
Phill: Bowling underarm.
Tom Evans: I didn't win the no-ball award.
Phill: Bowling underarm without having previously arranged it before the start of the game.
Tom Evans: Okay, so that's different to swapping actions without telling the umpire.
Phill: Yeah. The ball stopping before it gets to the batter.
Tom Evans: that's very unlikely to be the bowler's fault. And if it is, then it comes under it bouncing twice. If it's just on the ground, then it's bouncing an infinite number of times.
Phill: Bowling
Phill: balling up and unfiltered.
Tom Evans: I'm not having that one of the indifferents.
Phill: but An unfeasibly large incline. Can't get it there. hello
Tom Evans: while just rolling back down the hill to the bowler's feet.
Phill: If the fielder intercepts the ball before it gets to the batsman.
Tom Evans: Okay.
Phill: You didn't, I don't think, talk about the bouncer above head height.
Tom Evans: i was wondering how ah ah yeah I was wondering about that one.
Jamie Bowman : Did I not mention it?
Tom Evans: I wasn't sure of the rule on if it's just a wide or it's a no-ball.
Phill: and Fielder on the pitch.
Tom Evans: Right, okay.
Phill: Fielder encroaches, maybe a close infielder, their foot gets onto the cut strip. and And then the last one.
Tom Evans: it's like a and That's like a restriction on where the fielders are allowed to go.
Phill: Yeah, yeah.
Tom Evans: Yeah, we should we should we should have said fielding restrictions, shouldn't we? Anyway, go on.
Phill: I suppose it is possible that some of these come under the same. But this list has come from the laws of cricket this morning.
Tom Evans: Yeah, yeah, no, but I'm um'm i'm not not questioning you.
Phill: Okay.
Tom Evans: Go on.
Phill: And then that's that's a really bad principle in life, mate, because I just say things confidently, Lazio. and Dangerous bowling.
Tom Evans: Right, so what, dangerous, like, short-pitched bowling?
Phill: Yeah. Yeah.
Tom Evans: Be a no-bowl.
Phill: So that number 16.
Tom Evans: Okay.
Phill: So this is a question I've done it for you as a favour, because without question, you are now going to get the umpiring Twitterati picking all kinds of holes in that, which will get your podcast lots of attention.
Tom Evans: Thank you very much, Phil. I appreciate that. I think you... Possibly overestimating how well-followed umpires are on Twitter, but we'll see. I don't think you get umpire influences.
Tom Evans: don't think that's a thing. That's not a job that exists yet, but maybe it will be. i'm Great. I think all that remains to say is thank you very much, Phil O'Brien, for coming on and talking about Wavertree and No Balls and all the other things. it's been It's been a lot of fun. Thank you.
Phill: Thanks, fellas, and thanks for what you're doing. I think the cricket community is lucky to have you guys.
Jamie Bowman : Thanks very much, Phil.
Tom Evans: Appreciate it. Thank you, Jamie, for coming on again.
Jamie Bowman : Thank you, Tom.
Tom Evans: Hopefully, get one of these out.
Jamie Bowman : The award-winning Tom Evans.
Tom Evans: I'm sorry?
Jamie Bowman : The award-winning Tom Evans. It was a privilege.
Tom Evans: yeah what that That's to give me my full name, yeah, but, you know, Tom to his friends.
Jamie Bowman : Yeah.
Tom Evans: so And thank you again for listening. please Please like and share and leave reviews on the podcast app of your choice. I'm still not 100% familiar with how to i do this basically, but i'm I'm learning on the job. So you can listen to this on Apple podcast. You can listen to on Spotify, or you can listen on it.
Tom Evans: there You can listen to it through Zencastr itself. Thank you very much for everyone who's listened and supported. And we hope to be back with another one of these before the, before the start the cricket season.
Tom Evans: Thank much guys. Catch you later.
Jamie Bowman : Cheers, guys. Thank you.
