Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Italian football podcast. OK, Nemma, let's start off then with Razma Toyland, who is set to join Manchester United for 85 million euros, 75 million fixed fee, then 10 million in add -ons. The deal is done. It's going to become official in the next day or two. Five year contract plus one year for Hoyland at United. And the first thing that comes to mind here, Nemma, is
Speaker: Atalanta, they really are the best team in the world when it comes to selling players and making profits on players, aren't they?
Speaker: It's not even close. I tweeted that out and people were talking, oh, what about Porto? What about Benfica? What about Borussia Dortmund? Borussia Dortmund sold Jude Bellingham and Elling Horland. Atalanta sold Francia Siegagliardini and Rasmus Holland. Like, what are we even talking about? It's not even a discussion. I mean, the list that we've got here, we have to re -go through it because I think that just ends that debate.
Speaker: Rasmus Heulen, they paid 17 million euros for him, sold him for 85, and a deal worth 85. Romero, paid 16, sold for 55. Amadiello, zero, sold for 41. Kulosevsky, 100 ,000 euros, sold for 35. Bastoni, zero, sold for 31 million.
Speaker: Brian Christante paid 9 .5, sold for 30. Kesia, 0, sold for 28. Caldera, paid 0, sold for 25. Gossens, paid 1, sold for 25. Castan, paid 6 .5, sold for 24. Andrea Conti, 0, sold for 24. Galliardini, 0, sold for 22. Musabaro, paid 0, sold for 13.
Speaker: It's not even a contest. Enzo Fernandez is a world -class player. Jude Bellingham is a world -class player. Erling Haaland is a world -class player. Okay, they screwed Liverpool, Benfica, for Darby Nunez, but... I mean, these clubs don't do amazing business. They're amazing selling clubs as well. Porto, Benfica. Yes, they are, but they sell quality. But I'm saying, if you compare the quality... But you've also got to look at the size of the clubs. I mean, pound for pound, there's no debate. Pound for pound, Atalanta are a provincial club.
Speaker: These other clubs are big clubs. I mean, Porto and Binfico, they're historic clubs. They've won Champions League between them in the past. But what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, even if you look at the quality, there's really only one or two, maybe three actual world class players on that list I read up.
Speaker: Yeah, but I mean, but the others, like you said, they're bigger clubs, so they obviously attract bigger talent. But I mean, it's not, no matter how, that's what's amazing about it, Nimmo, because if you take Rasmus Hoyland, we've been singing his praises. He was my pick. Absolutely. We know he's an amazing talent and he looks like he's going to have a great career. But
Speaker: The point of the matter is this. He started 20 games for Atlanta last season. He scored 10 goals in all competitions. OK, most of that was in 2023. That's when he exploded this kind of the year for club and for countries. He scored a lot of goals for the Denmark as well. There's no doubt in the talent. But when you look at that, he started 20 games.
Speaker: for Atalanta, scored 10 goals, and they've managed to quintuple their investment on him in 11 months. I mean, it's just insane. And that just follows the pattern of those players that you've read out, like Ahmad Diallo, that they sold to United for 41 minutes. Yeah, who I spoke about last week. He played just four senior games before they sold him for a fortune. And then they ruled substitute appearances. Kulosevsky, he'd only played three games for Atalanta.
Speaker: For Atalanta, but let's be honest, he had a fantastic season of Parma before he went to EU in January, or six months there. But it's a different thing. My point is simply, no matter what metric you use, no matter what parameter it is, that list that I read up since January 2017, that makes Atalanta, by far, pound for pound overall, they are the best club in terms of selling players and turning a profit.
Speaker: 390 million euros. Not just selling for discovering players, scouting players, then developing them. Because you've got to develop them as well. Also the youth system, a lot of these players came from the youth system. They've been with them since they were very young age. They weren't just signed at 18. You know, they didn't do what a lot of the Portuguese clubs do in which they signed players from South America. Also, the other thing to mention about Porto and Benfica is a lot of those players have third party ownership.
Speaker: When you put it on paper, they bought this player for X amount and they sold him for 100 million. Well, actually, they've got third party ownership. They're only about sometimes up to 50 percent of their contract. And actually not much of it is going to Porto and Benfica. That you need to take into account as well. But yeah, I mean, Atalanta, they're just the way that the club operates for such a small club. But I mean, I just just to build on on that as well, like for me, again, the quality of the players, Kikuti Romero, Bastoni,
Speaker: Those are the only ones that I would say are world class or world class adjacent.
Speaker: I mean, the rest of them, I'm sorry, none of them are. They're good players, many of them. Some of them are atrocious players. Some of them are the jury still out on that. But that's what I was going to say. That's what I was going to say. Hojland is a player who I think, and I do sing his praises just like you do, because we think we both think he's a great talent. But again, we're talking about a player who had six good months, even that in the Serie A, and they flogged him for a deal worth almost 90 million euros.
Speaker: That is insane. It is insane. Absolutely insane. And that list that you read out, like you said, there hasn't been that many success stories on those. I mean, a lot of these, some of these plays have been huge, huge flops. Kaldara, massive flop. Andrea Conte, Conte, massive flop. Galiadimi, Kulosevsky, massive flop at Juventus. Then they then sold him on to Tottenham.
Speaker: Ahmed Diallo, so far, massive flop at United. He's been loaned out to the Scottish League and to the Championship so far. He did well last season in the Championship, but let's see if he can do it at this level. There hasn't been Kessier's struggle at first, then he came good. Christante has been good, but he's not been 30 million worth. Gossens has been well. He struggled in the first year, did better in the last months, hasn't he?
Speaker: Still been a flop, still been a flop. Let's be honest, let's not beat around the bush here. Bastoni and Kuti Romero are the only ones to date today. I don't think Kuti Romero has been sensational either. I mean, he's been good. He's been good, but he hasn't been, I mean, he's been better for Argentina. But what I'm saying is, absolutely. But I mean, Tottenham's problems are well -documented and more related to Tottenham. The history of Tottenham.
Speaker: but the history of the Tottenham is a certain poet from Italy who said, look, but today, 31st of July, 2023, when we're going through this Gianluca Mancini, another guy named on the list, that's not on the list, that's the level of the players that they've done, that they've sold that, except for Bastoni and Cote d 'Omero, there's not really been a single player who, I think, I look at, wow, I'm sorry, and I'm not saying that Osman's Holum couldn't be that guy, of course he can, but
Speaker: That's part of the skill, isn't it? That's part of the skill and of just how good they are. But also the other thing, and we've said this before, when you have a system coach like Gasparini, sometimes players
Speaker: can look better than they are in the system. And then once they come out of the system, they struggle to adapt elsewhere. And I think that's definitely been the case with a lot of these players. I don't think it's going to be the case with Hoyland over the long term, maybe at the start, because he's done really well for Denmark as well. I mean, look how well he's been played for Denmark. It's not just like, he's a big talent. There's no doubt about it. But that is just a word of caution. That is a word of caution that
Speaker: when it comes to buying players from Atalanta, you know, they seem to struggle when they're outside of the Gasparini system. So that's a reason why these players are so big for such big money.
Speaker: Yeah. I mean, a profit in six years, well, six and a half, because this is from January 1st, 2017, six and a half years of profit of almost 400 million euros. That is mental. That is just wow. I mean, it's just and again, look at the quality of the players. Look at the size of the club. It's a tiny provincial club in northern Italy. I mean, it's just nice. You got to have a salary bill of a championship club. You know, it's like.
Speaker: Exactly. I mean, that just shows you how to qualify for three Champions Leagues in a row and really fight for the Champions League last season as well. I mean, it just shows how well, how incredibly well run the club has been and why we say, you know, pound for pound, they are the best run club because what they're doing, they should be a, you know, a bottom half Serie A team. Not a team that's fighting for Champions League every season.
Speaker: I think financially in terms of player trading and in terms of how you run a club when you don't have the revenue streams of the EPL or a state backing you up, they are the best run club from that aspect in the world. There is no one else who comes close. Not when you take every parameter into consideration. Absolutely. Absolutely.
