Transcript
Asta Nordvig: Hi, welcome to the podcast. this is the
Simon: Well...
Asta Nordvig: Go WuWei podcast. Hello, Simon.
Simon: Hi, hi Asta. Hi, Esther. Thanks for having me on. I'm very excited and it's Well, both. new for us.
Simon: So, we will see.
Asta Nordvig: yet
Simon: what magic comes out of this.
Asta Nordvig: Yes, I'm very excited to have you on the podcast. Do you want to just quickly introduce yourself?
Simon: Yeah, absolutely. So for those of you who don't know, I am Simon. and born and raised in Stockholm but half Chinese so my full name is actually Simon Wu Ke Andreas Zellström.
Simon: I... i' a lot of things but i think i guess the most important thing for this conversation is that i I both lived in Shanghai for a year.
Simon: back when I was about 15. I then spend most of my time continuing in Stockholm Sweden. for the rest of my high school.
Simon: and then I spent one year at UC Berkeley in California. And then... finished my undergraduate in economics and politics and a little bit of maths at Lund University in southern Sweden. before I ended up doing a two -year master's at Oxford in economics.
Simon: focusing a lot on development. and I think broadly speaking the Yay. what I believe is the most important for human flourishing. I've always been quite... skeptical or questioning,
Simon: this video. simplistic view of get more stuff. equals more happiness. And...
Asta Nordvig: okay
Simon: So even on a macro scale, one of my pet peeves as an economist has been to questioned idea of infinite growth on a finite planet.
Simon: And then as a consequence of that, Well, think about what is driving this. desire for... economic growth all the time. And is there another path? And is this really the the path to a good life even in general?
Simon: even if Maybe maybe maybe that's... maybe it is a happy life, right? And then at that point we just have to Kind of trade off. the future. of the planet and and future generations versus today.
Simon: But if not... if it's actually not giving us that much happiness, then it feels a bit unnecessary. So... the long just to give you the the TLDR, the short version, what I found was after well many many years of studying economics and the science of human flourishing and happiness.
Simon: It is not. by any means necessary to have enormous wealth. or too. by lots of things that take up lots of energy and resources.
Simon: And so... What led me into this? was a combination of just my personal interests and and experiences.
Simon: So,
Asta Nordvig: It's really interesting Do you want to just quickly delve into what is Wu Wei?
Simon: Yeah, that's happy to, happy to. so Wu Wei is A... Hey. I would say an umbrella for experiences.
Simon: that includes meditation retreats, but also trips, and Hmm. and various forms of uh engage engagements in both your wellness a Chinese culture,
Simon: and and the signs of happiness and well -being.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: So the focus and niche is to blend Peace. traditional kind of Western knowledge with the Eastern traditional Chinese medicine. while also getting a bit of a glimpse into what China is today.
Simon: And... wu -wei itself It's an ancient Chinese term. that tries to capture this idea of nothingness but still having activity.
Simon: Inactivity, inactivity. or activity. while being inactive It is a very deep... concept. that I'm sure that the next few guests will be able to talk more about.
Simon: I am just a beginner that is very excited about this journey. as someone who wants to study it and go deeper into it and connect with my own culture. So...
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: I know that it has a... great importance. within Taoism and Chinese culture. I cannot. dare to claim that I actually understand it.
Simon: myself. fully. so Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: Yes. I'd love to hear a bit more about this. What brought you to have this interest in in the concept of wu -wei and What? What lifestyle?
Asta Nordvig: kind of led you to to creating these experiences.
Simon: Yeah, that's that's the good that you bring it up. So, I'm a startup founder. I haven't always been that but but after straight after coming to university i decided to take that alternative route, so to speak.
Simon: and This is very very stressful. and back in 2024 in January I decided to go on a silent retreat after some other friends of mine had had gone. and told me about that experience.
Simon: And... And it was incredible. like I have meditated before. When I was at UC Berkeley I did have a teacher. and But...
Simon: then Once you get into that stage where things are there's a lot of pressure on you as an individual to drive things forward, There's challenges with you know, just getting money into the business and then you don't. really know. if we're going to survive for i don't know one two more months And...
Simon: so So in that context, I was like, oh, I need actually to have... Philly D cup. All right. Disconnect. As a startup founder, you work every day.
Simon: All the time.
Asta Nordvig: but
Simon: Almost. of course you have freedom to take breaks like middle of the week and and whatever but I think there's always an underlying I always like being being available.
Simon: And I'm sure there are people who who feel that, even if they're not a founder. and they They naturally have that tendency. I don't know, many friends who just kind of really turn off.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: So, uh, by going on a retreat. I got to experience for the first time how it feels like to Peace. Just away from a phone for like 70, I think 72 hours.
Simon: So I went to this place in Sussex, southwestern England. and turn off my phone. and then just participated. Initially, the first dinner was you could speak.
Simon: so you could like sort of mingle you learned about the rules of this place you you got assigned a role so i was the What is it called?
Simon: I think I was the cleaner of... cutlery and like kitchenware as in not cleaner but I was like drying it
Simon: So ed we had a we had a whole team, like four people.
Asta Nordvig: or a polisher
Simon: That's it. Yeah, everyone had the stations. I had the final one, which was like... dry it up a bit. put it in the right place in the kitchen. So that there is like there was a team that did the cutting before lunch. and dinner. So they just cut vegetables. And then there was another team that was...
Simon: I think the chef was like actually cooking, but like there was other teams that were cleaning. they They had like more dishwashing duty and my team.
Asta Nordvig: You were doing... All this in silence.
Simon: Yay.
Asta Nordvig: Meanwhile.
Simon: Exactly. So so that from the first session, we we all we were all in silence. and we had to communicate by like to just like looking at each other and be like maybe pointing but even pointing is a form of communication so we were supposed to just like
Asta Nordvig: like
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: Zen, which is just sentence.
Asta Nordvig: Just exist in your task.
Simon: Yeah, we just sends each other and we
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. Wow.
Simon: semi -acknowledged each other in the house. so This is like 40 -50 people in a big house.
Asta Nordvig: hand
Simon: So you're not supposed to really have eye contact. Well, not communicate really.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: And... Yeah, so... That in and of itself was a great experience. after the first 24, 12 hours.
Simon: you I mean you're still thinking about stuff like things come up and you sit for like 10 seconds and then it's like thoughts come into your head then you start to think about another business, or life, or...
Simon: uh just reflect on things. But after, I think day two, I started to be get get better at it and I could... Hold them. a stillness for I don't know, maybe I could...
Simon: Wait for like a minute. or something. two and then you catch yourself, and then you... Good pack. It was a cool experience like to live in a room as well. I had a roommate.
Simon: You don't really talk, you just... That's... That's them, that's me. and
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: You sit with yourself. So that was the inspiration that was the inspiration
Asta Nordvig: That's all. That sounds really cool, yes. So you wanted to take this.
Simon: and
Asta Nordvig: and give that experience to more people
Simon: Yes, exactly
Asta Nordvig: And. You mentioned that like, especially your case is quite extreme as a startup founder, but you also... have seen people that Do not live that lifestyle. that also have this constant availability.
Asta Nordvig: constantly opening themselves to input.
Simon: Absolutely. I mean I think Everyone is doomscrolling.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: like my my grandma and my dad and like...
Asta Nordvig: Yeah, these days.
Asta Nordvig: It was.
Simon: young people, old people, and and
Asta Nordvig: We're all in our... bubble of content right now.
Simon: Absolutely.
Asta Nordvig: Aren't they?
Simon: There's a lot of entertainment.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: There's a lot of one -way. And I think you're you're distracting yourself very often. from your own thoughts. And I don't know about you, but...
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: But... or i'd like have you talked with friends and you've been like just realize that none of you ever take time off.
Simon: And and you know you don't...
Asta Nordvig: Hmm. mainly
Simon: realize that you have like your brain can just Pop up with. funny, interesting thoughts, if you allow it.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. Yes. But like also the popping Have you heard of that?
Simon: No, what's that?
Asta Nordvig: the phone phone nubbing when you nub your friends with your phone So you're in a conversation. and suddenly you have your phone out And you're basically just cutting off the conversation without notice to your friend.
Asta Nordvig: to look at your phone.
Simon: oh yeah I see what you mean.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: It's like just randomly looking away at like
Asta Nordvig: Thank you. when the doom scrolling just like takes over even in your real life life. even when you are occupied.
Simon: So you're saying people, like, maybe they get a message, they quickly answer, and then they just, like, by habit, just...
Asta Nordvig: and so i says
Simon: quickly check instagram and see a video and then and then they're like oh right there's another person here
Asta Nordvig: Absolutely, thank you.
Asta Nordvig: Yes exactly.
Simon: Oh shit, yeah. that's bad But... Yeah, so so I think... I think in this day and age there's a lot of
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: Neat
Asta Nordvig: It's a lot of... this and but What do you think this kind of behavior and this addiction to constant entertainment? How do you think it affects people's nervous system?
Simon: I think it's It keeps you stimulated. I mean, you're always stimulated for sure.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: And I think especially, I mean, depending on your feed, of course, but there is a lot of like... uh, Exciting, yes, like exciting in a positive way, but also say things that make you angry and upset and really attention and grabbing.
Asta Nordvig: mother
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: And and so yeah so you're not really... resetting in a proper way. And... and And I think that, like when you're in it, the thing is you don't realize how how how you are in this like fish tank like if they're fish you swing me around you're like what is water I have no idea
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: So... you you can't really also experience the stillness and the calmness of your body. if you if you don't really ever expose yourself to that.
Simon: And and we frankly speaking, that just doesn't happen. Like most people, last time they had this. kind of to calmness and and like emptiness in their heads or just in the bodies.
Simon: was when they were like, I don't know, seven, eight years old. Maybe.
Asta Nordvig: then
Simon: when you were truly in the present and you're like in a flow state but it's not flow like for work but it's like just laughing with friends. running around, maybe exercising.
Simon: sleeping until you You just genuinely wake up and you feel rested and not sleeping and you're like, oh, I wish I slept more.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: but you You just wake up by yourself. and you feel fresh.
Asta Nordvig: Yes. Yeah, I definitely see that in my kids.
Simon: and and And the first thing.
Asta Nordvig: like They wake up.
Simon: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: when they wake up. They don't and and go about. They wake up and they sit up and they're awake.
Simon: listen
Asta Nordvig: They are in They just feel their body, right? And I as an adult and I'm... Definitely. phone addicted. I will doom scroll before I get up.
Asta Nordvig: Definitely.
Simon: yeah Exactly.
Asta Nordvig: Or I will turn over and press snooze.
Simon: so Best news, exactly. I mean, sleep is such a huge thing like in this day and age. as in it is a massive massive problem myself obviously uh not always sleeping very well i mean i think at the time i was very often i could wake up at
Asta Nordvig: All right.
Simon: like five Sometimes, like the bad situations like Maybe I sleep at 12. Walaikum Assalam I mean, 12 was but good if I slept. yeah More commonly, it was like 1 o 'clock.
Simon: And then... the worst days, intense periods, I will wake up at 5. My body feels tired, but I'm Pretty awake.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: I cannot fall asleep again. And then that's like four hours of sleep. which is horrible. And... and And then so... You know the the coping mechanism for us it becomes this like the scrolling or can be eating Like you just want to snack something.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: and you try to stimulate yourself maybe like a lot of people drink coffee of course i i don't but
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: All of these stimulants kind of add up. and and you youre you're slowly ruining. your long -term health. And it gradually, so you don't notice it like day by day, but... but If you have had the ability to jump you would have.
Asta Nordvig: Just... from teenage years and through your career
Simon: Alright.
Asta Nordvig: year by year you're just adding A cocktail effect of...
Simon: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: Bad hands. I'm very
Simon: Yeah, and so and sleep in particular. like I read this book by Matthew Walker.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: called Why We Sleep.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: Strongly recommend it to anyone really. a A lot of that the person recommended it to me. uh beatrice she's she had gotten it recommended to to her and she said like oh yeah my friend after reading this became like obsessed with sleep and like making sure you get the full hours and everything which is which is great I found that actually. the funny thing about these self -help books is that when you read them when you're in the midst of it You.
Simon: try to like you actually respect it and you start to do these things So anyways, but the the thing I wanted to to say is that the vast majority of individuals in metropolitan cities.
Simon: the Londons, the New Yorks, probably Copenhagen as well or Stockholm. they they are sleep deprived. which is different from insomniac.
Simon: So if you have insomnia, that means use your body cannot produce. enough sleep. for you.
Asta Nordvig: o
Simon: So, whereas uh
Asta Nordvig: Yes. It's like a medical condition, yeah.
Simon: Yeah, it's more medical body wise. Sleep deprivation is when you're not giving yourself enough. Sleep. time.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: so So like you're you're not even allow like there's no physical. possibility to to get. the full 8 hours. or yeah i think eight hours so So that what Matthew Rock
Asta Nordvig: You're not. time to allow yourself the necessary sleep basically.
Simon: Yep. exactly so most of us were just like working late and when we have to get up at seven or eight And and we just do it.
Asta Nordvig: Perfect.
Simon: override or natural kind of body.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Simon: yeah so so so let me ask you a question oh sorry
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. Because I think Yes. No, absolutely
Simon: and Okay, I'll ask you a question and then and then we can... the next. so There was this experiment in the book, and I love using this because it just shocked me. They let people test What? how fast they are at reacting to things.
Simon: And that's a test of alertness and just play cognitive function. So all that happens is that there's there's an item that comes up on the screen. and all you need to do is like press this button if something is on screen.
Simon: It's kind of a reaction test.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: And if you haven't slept enough, that you micro -sleep. apparently. See you just... quickly lose attention. You just don't. Seed it. So people just like actually miss. an entire thing they just don't press
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: Now, they did it they have two conditions one is a person asleep deprived the whole night. So they do it before and they do it after. The second condition was they tell people Okay, now you're gonna sleep.
Simon: One hour less. than what you normally would. And so instead of, well, not normally, but like what you should. So normally that you absolutely should have at least seven and a half hours.
Simon: That's like seven and a half, maybe eight. Like that is what every human actually needs.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: and It doesn't matter if you Wake up earlier as you get older or let you sleep less That is, a symptom. of various bodily functions.
Simon: Not. working the way Ideally, they should. it's not optimal.
Asta Nordvig: my man
Simon: now So the question to you is,
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: how many nights of just sleeping slightly less so like about one hour maybe or so. 45 minutes. So instead of let's say And...
Simon: 8 hours, you sleep 7 hours.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: How many air of such nights? What it does it take? for you your cognitive function to be as bad as after one whole night of staying awake.
Asta Nordvig: Ooh. That sounds like a trick question. But I would assume at least least a couple of nights, right?
Simon: Yeah, so so how many yeah how many nights Or how long would those take?
Asta Nordvig: I mean they're
Asta Nordvig: and sleep three nights. Three nights. Off. slightly reduced sleep.
Simon: It is... 7 or like about a week.
Asta Nordvig: Okay.
Simon: which makes sense if you add up the numbers, like seven hours right times seven.
Asta Nordvig: he
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: And and of course, like...
Asta Nordvig: I guess even if you have a bad night and someone asks you to do... a very involved task. You can pull yourself together most times and still
Simon: yeah
Asta Nordvig: Perform for a few minutes, right?
Simon: yeah absolutely and then and it's it's like At the end of the day you e
Asta Nordvig: When you get to the point where you don't even notice that you're... not performing. to your potential.
Simon: Yeah. exactly and these are very nuanced like i don't know how big the gap was like because like one night everyone can imagine oh shit you're really tired and you're like oh my god Can't really.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: Keep up. but the pernicious thing is that you don't realize after sleeping I mean, let's say that your baseline is like seven and a half and you sleep six and a half hours.
Simon: Like, Yep. Pretty okay overall, you can do stuff.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: but you don't notice that that gap in your cognitive function and ability. And then most people don't. Like you you walk around. And you're thinking, yeah, I'm pretty fine, you know.
Simon: i'm I'm working.
Asta Nordvig: month
Simon: I can answer emails. I don't feel too bad. I'm not like yawning necessarily throughout the day.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: But... but These small incremental changes does affect you. And over time, you see see things as Alzheimer's.
Asta Nordvig: once
Simon: being developed directly as a symptom or a result of lack of sleep. You have... obesity or like Just... weight gain because there are certain hormones in your body that are increased in production if you don't sleep enough.
Asta Nordvig: nice
Simon: So there are a lot of these like stress responses that that happen. if you do not sleep.
Asta Nordvig: Okay.
Simon: Yeah, so that's about health. So I'm like, oh shit, i need to I need to recover. I need to think about my body. Doesn't matter how stressful.
Asta Nordvig: right
Simon: things are, I need to still like fully take a break.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: And that's that's how I got the inspiration. We gathered some friends for this. friends and family and people I knew from meditation groups in London to to just come with me on this first really, really...
Simon: wonderful retreat. that we had.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: Amen. in back in April, april March, April in 2026. So, that that and initially wasn't the idea that idea wasn't for me to create go away
Asta Nordvig: All the work.
Simon: but rather I just wanted to do it for myself and for people I know. But then I figured it went so well that like, okay, let's let's keep doing this. I think there are there's a problem we can solve for a lot of people here.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. Absolutely.
Asta Nordvig: m So... You basically created this retreat. and I understand it as... you got some pretty nice access to meditation teachers in China.
Simon: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Meditation, not just meditation actually. We also have Tai Chi.
Asta Nordvig: Who knows? There's also the... always Yes?
Simon: Kung Fu uh,
Asta Nordvig: Hmm?
Simon: calligraphy, we had chefs that are are very much specialized in Chinese health -focused cuisine. So there's a whole like complex system about what you should eat and what you shouldn't eat. it's all part of this sort of Daoism but also just general Chinese folk.
Simon: tradition.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: We as had like this particular venue. is very close to tea plantations or tea where you, not plantations but like tea, grow tea leaves.
Simon: and so
Asta Nordvig: moment
Simon: we because it was like kind of fresh retreat, a bit startup -y. they came and said, well, actually, this is tea plucking season. why don't we do like a whole morning and afternoon of like jet picking the authentic tea leaves.
Asta Nordvig: of
Simon: learning about the different types of teas, how you prepare them and then doing it ourselves and then having a proper tea ceremony.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: So we we I was like, yeah, cool, let's ...
Asta Nordvig: Yep.
Simon: change up the program and do that. So so yes
Asta Nordvig: And you can ask. take some of these Chinese cultural the practices, right? Like the tea ceremony. that is applicable in everyday life. You don't have to have...
Asta Nordvig: the whole table and the tea set. to enjoy a quiet moment of... Making tea. Setting intentions. with what you are doing.
Simon: Absolutely, absolutely.
Asta Nordvig: And that is something. that is something you can teach definitely in there in the retreat.
Simon: Yeah. Exactly, and then i think I think at the end of the day, what you're bringing with you home.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: is very much a mindset. and it's a place it away. approaching every moment in life. In fact, if the science of well -being and happiness Reveals that one of the absolute absolute strongest and most important things that you can do for your own well -being and happiness is to appreciate.
Simon: like the present and people are not like The first step is to be in the present. like Most people are like living in the past or the future. Right. If you are anxious, That's you, your mind thinking about future states that don't exist.
Simon: uh, If you are... Kind of illuminating. You're living in the past.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: But... What's interesting is the past and the future does not exist. Back. in our human brains, the only thing we can actually ever experience is the current present. And when you look across, and this is something, i know mogawat a gentleman who
Simon: very impressive guy, former leading Google X. but he's made itself a mission to make 1 billion people happy. So we explore that sign. What he said, and and that's it's one podcast I was listening to recently.
Simon: He just looked into all human emotions that we tend to have. And... and he found and well he discovered i guess i mean this is known but If you think about it, all positive emotions tend to be in the present like in currently whereas negative emotions are very often past the future.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: So,
Asta Nordvig: Okay.
Simon: Bleh. so so this has been replicated across many studies that that that being in the present but also then of course. appreciating things and then like let's say you drink a cup of tea
Asta Nordvig: friends
Simon: you're actually like drinking the tea, you're not. thinking about being somewhere else.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: Suppose...
Asta Nordvig: So you can take that physical action, that physical input,
Simon: Mm hmm.
Asta Nordvig: so apply the desired emotion. basically.
Simon: Yes, exactly and and it's actually especially good if you're not someone who drinks tea normally and you never really have this like chinese tea ceremony -esque way i mean you don't have to make it so like grandiose like the thing when you have the tea ceremonies you have these like super small cups of tea
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: You obviously have the pot, but you have that they're very small. So they're kind of like kind like shots. but But as someone who's
Asta Nordvig: But you don't shut it, do you?
Simon: No, no, you drink a little bit slowly.
Asta Nordvig: Thanks.
Simon: But but but i'm I'm someone who's like, Arun, are you big on like...
Asta Nordvig: hor
Simon: I don't know productivity hacks and like these so -called self -improvement books or are you More like normal.
Asta Nordvig: I...
Simon: Hey, human.
Asta Nordvig: I think I would lean more normal, honestly.
Simon: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: you would have to see the kind of acrobatics I had to make in my brain too. figure out how to make a podcast. and I'm very grandma in my ways, I would say.
Simon: Dry it
Asta Nordvig: And.
Simon: but So have you heard of the book Atomic Habits or...
Asta Nordvig: Thank you.
Simon: or the power of habits.
Asta Nordvig: Yes, I have heard of the i haveve heard of the book, but I have not read it.
Simon: Right, so so it's like... so basically when because you said something good there about like physical triggers kind of oh no yeah that's your reminders and And in fact, one of the things that you want to do if you want to build new habits is you want to have humans. So a cue can be something like...
Simon: if I want to work out. And I prepared my workout clothes and I put them right by my bed. A cue would then be that as soon as I woke up, the first thing I see are these workout clothes.
Simon: So instead of putting on my other clothes, I'm like, okay, I put on my workout clothes.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: Oh, I have workout clothes on. Well, I guess I'm supposed to like go to the gym. So that that becomes a trigger.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: for a whole chain of events.
Asta Nordvig: Absolutely.
Simon: And so you can program your brain, or your your your kind of... body and and everything. to affiliate Tea. With... this retreat. So you can like actually physically... bring back the emotions and state state of the nervous system.
Simon: to what you had during that retreat by anchoring how you were.
Asta Nordvig: So your brain... Your brain remembers how you feel when you're at your best, most well rested after a nice meditation session.
Simon: Mm -hmm.
Asta Nordvig: just by the scent. of teas. stemming from your teamwork.
Simon: Yes. the scent of the tea or the action like you can choose different things but but like The body is absolutely incredible in many ways.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: Like, you know how tired you feel like it's all hormones and and different like cycles if you are stressed That's actually the body.
Asta Nordvig: Boom.
Simon: If you are producing more cortisol, if you are producing more hormones that would make you like gain weight or want to eat more like
Asta Nordvig: hmm
Simon: If you actually think about it, It's all in your body. and your mind you have the like active nervous system and you have the more like passive kind of broadly mechanisms.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: Pits. it is possible to control your body through your brain like obviously your brain is connected to your body. select Just on the first, it sounds a bit woo -woo and magic.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: Peace. in principle, like why wouldn't your conscious self
Asta Nordvig: but i think
Simon: be able to control some of the like so automatic
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: systems.
Asta Nordvig: Yes, and I absolutely think that Western science is starting to catch up to the... wisdom of the East as well. that we are not just machines.
Asta Nordvig: We are not just what we can measure in our body. and how we feel. can also be affected. by what we do.
Simon: Exactly. I mean the westerns, it's like okay you got pills, you got the hormones, oh you don't have this hormone, well you gotta eat the pill.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: whereas the chinese way is seeing the whole system as a holistic thing you have the lymphatic systems they had it like nervous and and
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. You're not just replacing the missing hormone. You're figuring out. Which part is not making the hormone and why?
Simon: Yeah, and you're saying that, and then... and and then at the end of the day that there's this approach to health that Yes, we can we can fix these things.
Simon: and we can work on our minds and and physical bodies. that in and of itself can't heal. You're helping your body heal
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: so So, yeah, so so and if we talk a little bit about how a day looks like. Or like a week. We... we're always developing this but we have a bit of everything.
Simon: in a way that makes you immersed into the present. so I give you enough time to... rest and then have your own time. But...
Simon: The coming one in 2027 it's gonna have It's going to start with the day of... arriving. so you have arrival day that's all going to find not much planned One. in the evening we have a bit of a kind of agenda setting and expectation setting and the norm setting and what is going to happen this week.
Simon: you're going to be given a bit of a reading. pre -reading if you want to Learn about the Taoism and the Zen Buddhism and sort of stimulate your brain. Start to ask yourself some questions.
Simon: next day in the morning We start to pray the morning Tai Chi. and So Tai Chi is this exercise form. and before breakfast for those who want it's a bit of optional. but we definitely encourage it it's a great way to start the day after having been woken up by The birds.
Simon: kind of singing. Then around 8 or so, 8 .20, the breakfast starts. corn breakfast Chinese style. Chinese breakfast. followed by then the first session, about nine or so. where we introduce you to the cultural kind of systems, both Zen Buddhism.
Simon: buddhism or Chan Buddhism as it's called in China. and Taoism. and then meditation sessions which is in blocks So you would meditate maybe 20, 30 minutes at a time as a beginner. That's already a lot.
Simon: And then there's a bit of pause, a little bit of conversation. We ask questions from the teacher. And you can you don't have to know Chinese you speak in English and then we either have translators or we have these kind of AI live translations, or the teacher speaks en English.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: And then you do a bit of standing meditation. and then pause and then walking meditation and then pause and then sitting meditation so you have a bit of rotation And then you end up actually meditating for like one and a half two hours and then get to lunch.
Simon: so that would be like at the typical like meditation days of day one is is a lot of talking and understanding the systems and interacting. But then by the evening of
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: I think we're doing from day two or the day one or day two. we enter silence. so Just... 24 hours? but a way for you to experience this complete.
Simon: Yeah. Silence. And so you're still you haven't gotten to know everyone in the group yet.
Asta Nordvig: move
Simon: which is interesting because typically especially if you have a little bit of social anxiety whenever you're in your walk into an activity maybe at lunch you feel this like pressure to like mingle or chit chat But that is all gone.
Asta Nordvig: Nothing to do.
Simon: all of a sudden And you're still with other people.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: And I was told last time... to to the friends who attended. who had a little bit of social anxiety. one was doing a lot of content on social media. She she was someone who is bridging west and east. It talks a lot about that. And she said, wow, Ursus. so emancipating. It's such a freedom.
Simon: that she'd never felt before.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: field. togetherness
Asta Nordvig: god
Simon: but you're D 'oh!
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: Thank you for your channel. alone together.
Asta Nordvig: Okay.
Simon: yeah so that's like the first day and then like first two days and then after that we go into days that have elements of chinese music sound meditation We had the more active. like Kung Fu in the afternoon and some days. and the tea ceremony and tea plucking.
Asta Nordvig: so not only do you get this full mental reset and unplugging completely. you also get to really dive into Chinese cultural experiences and a little bit of sport and activity as well.
Simon: yeah exactly and that's a way to like kind of de -stress and be like in the moment
Asta Nordvig: Sounds like a Yes. Exactly. So getting back inside your body basically. before. Another a year.
Simon: yes another year and and And I think it's part of the...
Asta Nordvig: All right. in the future You probably won't have to wait a whole year, right? before the next retreat.
Simon: Good point. We are we have Because we're we're so excited about this, Asta and me and the the team, all people who are like just doing this out of pure passion.
Simon: at least for now.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: We have many concepts in the mate making. So another concept that we're developing is the is that yang longevity.
Simon: experience. which instead of being in one place of focusing on meditation, it is more a combination of seeing different cities in China, that like modern Shenzhen and Hangzhou, but also getting health tested.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Simon: 360 degrees, the MRI scans, the blood tests check for toxins, heavy metals,
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: your hormone hormone levels, even sperm count if you're a man and you're in your 20s. and these Many of them are quite advanced, sophisticated, that typically would be
Asta Nordvig: Yes, there are technologies. that typically don't exist here in europe or or even in the states right
Simon: Yeah, bald. of course if you have the money
Asta Nordvig: or they exist what they would might be. Yeah, it might be prohibitively expensive, yes.
Simon: super super expensive Yeah. It's expensive, not accessible. So what we want to do, and we're working on this now, is to find providers who could help us with with at like modern facilities and who could do this at a more affordable rate.
Simon: so that you can get a 360 degree of actually your current health and we can flag things like mineral deficiencies.
Asta Nordvig: next
Simon: and we work with a US -based licensed medical doctor and who's been trained specifically at the Institute for Functional Medicine.
Simon: Yeah. which is this preventative.
Asta Nordvig: Okay, so you could... Yeah, so you do get it in a way that you understand it you get a consultation so you understand what these tests are, what your results look like.
Asta Nordvig: and of course a translated results.
Simon: Yes, exactly. So what we do we get the tests in China? we could do mri scans actually and they you can actually like book it in it's affordable You can get the blood test.
Asta Nordvig: one
Simon: You can get the V0 Max, which is your cardio. you can get the DEXA scans
Asta Nordvig: Mm hmm.
Simon: All of these things, probably in conjunction, We're looking at... worth of 15 ,000 USD at least for like doing all of these type of things in the US most likely. But.
Simon: in China. we call out I don't want to give you the numbers. But it will be. as much as you would have paid to just go on a regular like nice holiday But you get not just a holiday.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Simon: you also have Roughly. maybe one or two days of this like comprehensive state -of -the -art tests that are then also interpreted by a licensed doctor based in the US.
Simon: so
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Simon: That is something I'm very excited about myself. partially for myself, as as as any good entrepreneur you do it for yourself, but also for anyone in my network.
Asta Nordvig: No.
Asta Nordvig: Because you don't know if you will need these tests. That's the thing, right? You can test for things that may come up. As you said, it's preventative. Yeah.
Simon: it's pro preventative
Asta Nordvig: So.
Simon: It's preventative.
Asta Nordvig: And you get to see you. all of these exciting Chinese cities I know. It's been a long time since I was in China and the development is so fast. They have really removed a lot of the roadblocks to developing a city in a modern way that that we see in other parts of the world.
Simon: absolutely
Asta Nordvig: Thanks. Sweet.
Simon: And nowadays they have apps in Chinese, like in English as well. It's super easy. You can like literally an inside Alipay. They have VPN, like you can buy it inside the app and it's like you buy internet and VPN baked in.
Simon: so you don't feel any difference
Asta Nordvig: no
Simon: You can connect your regular credit card. and then you can actually use alipay and you use scan you use their like chinese checkout system Seamless. they charge nothing for anything below like i think 20 like microtransactions no No fees.
Simon: And this like super apps is one of the things in China. In China, you don't have like Uber, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: like you You have the...
Asta Nordvig: No, it's all inside Waysin.
Simon: Yeah, it's also an innovation, and then Alipay for a lot of other things.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: for the booking a flight ticket, hotel, all of these things.
Asta Nordvig: second
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: Super convenient. and And you have stuff.
Asta Nordvig: And we help with this, of course. we
Simon: yes yes yes
Asta Nordvig: I'll just set it up. Yeah.
Simon: So the benefit of working with someone like who's done this and who's sort of like but based in I'm based in London, but I'm in Sweden quite a lot for family and friends.
Simon: is that we ourselves have gone through those steps and been confused and been like oh visa and or do i need a visa or his own arrival how does that work and and you know our transport system like which apps do I need to download in advance because yes there are apps that you probably want to have in in advance and some of them you might not be able to download when you arrive.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly. Yes.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: But it's just nice to have someone you can like trust and you can just send a text message. to be there like oh yeah what about this what about that or like you end up here with a taxi driver who doesn't speak english and you're like oh shit Now what?
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. And exactly for the, yeah. and exactly for the travel of practicalities i mean we are of course here for the clients and Right now... uh in If you are Swedish, a Swedish citizen you do not need a visa.
Simon: Yeah, see, lo and behold. And that was actually very quite new. It came like November, December.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly, it's news.
Simon: uh... and UK was added as well and now just this earlier this spring
Asta Nordvig: But.
Asta Nordvig: honey
Simon: And I'm thinking there are more and more that pops out there. I think nowadays most of Europe, like most major countries in Europe.
Asta Nordvig: Okay.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: visa -free us even It's not like completely for the US citizens like you can just like just literally fly in. but they
Asta Nordvig: I think you need to announce that you're going to come, but you don't need to pay the big fee for the visa anymore.
Simon: Yeah, it is
Asta Nordvig: So that's nice.
Simon: it's relatively straightforward it's like super quick and streamlined but even if you don't have visa you can actually do transit visa in China hundred more than 100 hours transit visa.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm. Exactly.
Simon: which means that you can like As long as you basically buy a ticket to China and then an exit ticket to like Hong Kong. that counts as a transit, which means you can land and you say, on a arrival you say yeah this is transit and they're just like okay cool transit
Asta Nordvig: emily
Simon: That's it.
Asta Nordvig: Mm.
Simon: deletion.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Simon: So... So even if you were like last minute wanted to go you can actually do it you just need to go via Hong Kong, like Shanghai.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Simon: Hong Kong and then back to the US.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. And exactly the the mini retreats that we've been doing. Those you can absolutely do on the on the 100 hour transit visa.
Simon: yeah Exactly. so way we're we're We're doing...
Asta Nordvig: and get in with the with a beach vacation. Yeah.
Simon: Because we're doing different lengths. We have now everything from the six nights to three nights.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: And and we also want to integrate.
Asta Nordvig: no
Simon: like This is not just for foreigners. the problem of stress is for anyone living in major cities.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: so One thing for the next the upcoming ones is
Asta Nordvig: Exactly. expecting
Simon: but the weekend we will have will welcome more participants who come on Friday evening.
Asta Nordvig: Nice.
Simon: and they just do Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So, I think that would be a cool opportunity for someone like who's based in the Europe or US to actually meet a regular Chinese.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: white -collar professional. in Shanghai.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Simon: and And I think that blend of culture is super important that we build bridges.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: between different cultures.
Asta Nordvig: also if you If you are in China, and you want to delve into Chinese culture and philosophy. this is a great opportunity as well. because we do all the work we have sourced. all the teachers and everything for you.
Simon: Mhm.
Asta Nordvig: You just show up.
Simon: Exactly, exactly.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: So so we we have...
Asta Nordvig: You just come as you are.
Simon: Yeah, the weekend plan for for the next one in the upcoming flagship retreat.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: The weekend, we are introducing more activity -based cultural... and immersion so so that would be the like kung fu for example and it would be the a testing of Chinese instrument for example and so So we try to make it so that basic... like China 101 stuff.
Simon: is during the week. and then we Make it so that things that regular Chinese young people just never really got the chance to get a taste of. There's more on the weekend.
Simon: And that way, everyone gets like something new and novel and so also like during the weekend we would have a bit more towards the end we would have these like discussions comparing and contrasting West, East.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: and reflection about how you what you can bring back to yourself. wealth back home and and implementing your life those type of things that are oriented towards helping you also take this further like how how can we make sure this was just not a one -off thing.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly. Exactly.
Asta Nordvig: yeah that you actually bring it home with you and take all the teachings to heart Hmm.
Simon: Exactly.
Asta Nordvig: Exactly.
Simon: so But Asta, Let me ask you then, as as as someone who's
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: who interviewed me now for today. what would you want to convey for the listener here. as to maybe like what What do you think they should know or or take away?
Simon: wow from from from this. Like a Wu Wei. Or why should they go to to to China and participate in art?
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. I think The thing about especially the place we have in Anorke is that You can of course go to a retreat somewhere in Europe but you will always be so close to a lard. metropolis In Anhui, you get this quiet that you wouldn't get anywhere else.
Asta Nordvig: You can hear the nature around you. and not much else, which is very rare. and So I definitely recommend that. And China is closer than you think.
Asta Nordvig: It's really not that far. And... it We will absolutely welcome you and make you feel welcome and taken well care of.
Simon: Yeah, that's a good point.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: and and the specific and i think i guess it worth mentioning we haven't talked too much about the venue itself the main flagship venue It is built by And...
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: a practicing Buddhist. and who is developing. like property and so on. and And so the entire area has been developed to follow the principles of Feng Shui.
Simon: It's integrated in nature in a very unique way, even for China.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. a
Simon: so that there's a building, there's a section at the bottom of this kind of mountain slope, which of the beautiful white brick.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: remark
Simon: Hui architecture, classic Chinese architecture. Then after that, there's there's a little bit of a forest, a forest path that you walk up, and then you eventually reach a small lake.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: in and a timber building which is the big restaurant and a deck.
Asta Nordvig: No.
Simon: and this deck is where we in the morning have the exercises And then after that, there's there's a path to a smaller lake where you can fish, fish.
Asta Nordvig: That's lovely.
Simon: and then you can continue up a path to the study.
Asta Nordvig: Mm hmm.
Simon: which is there where we meditate, and it overlooks the entire valley, the whole whole landscape.
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: and And this... so even in china this is very very rare like this has not but been built to be commercialized and that well obviously it is to some extent but it's not that like you know,
Simon: God.
Asta Nordvig: it's not focusing on the pumping money it's it's a place built with intention
Simon: it's not the same
Simon: It was built from the heart, if I put it that way.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: so so he built it because he saw this place he visited and he saw wow
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: this has to be developed, this this has a special energy. and then
Asta Nordvig: look
Simon: Yeah, maybe it becomes a business too, but that was the second thought. he uh initially donated a lot of money to establish a monastery.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: There's a Buddhist monastery with actual buddh Buddhists just around
Asta Nordvig: and
Simon: around the corner so to speak, like it's a few minutes drive. But that was established by the the person who built this venue as well. And so, during there may be opportunities to visit this this monastery.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: if you participate in these retreats. and then you can meet the actual monks who live there. full -time.
Asta Nordvig: That's very exciting. yeah so Yes, definitely definitely
Simon: Yeah, definitely definitely something for everyone, even if you're not...
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. Yes.
Simon: planning to be, you know, a buddhist or purist, or a Taoist.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah. yeahma Yes, you don't have to be
Simon: There's something to learn.
Asta Nordvig: Yeah.
Simon: Absolutely.
Asta Nordvig: Definitely. You can take what you want from from the experience, of course. but It is an experience that I would say is worth it for anyone who is interested.
Simon: Yeah. and the way we plan this as well i guess as to wrap things up the the current for the current coming one. for if for anyone listening.
Simon: You want to save the date. that are right before I know. Well, not right after Easter. So the way we've done it, if you do...
Asta Nordvig: All right.
Simon: Oh boy. if you do if you do celebrate or or if you come commemorate, so to speak, Is there?
Asta Nordvig: Mm hmm.
Simon: you You can do so. So Good Friday. as the easter day and so on that is not it's not overlapping
Asta Nordvig: Right. Yeah.
Asta Nordvig: There is time to come out of your Lent and have your celebration and then... You can join us.
Simon: Yes.
Asta Nordvig: in China.
Simon: Exactly.
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: So we planned so that it starts the Tuesday. after. So this starts on Tuesday and goes to the Sunday.
Asta Nordvig: Alright.
Simon: So if you're someone who values this and wants that time with family that's all good you can just come straight after
Asta Nordvig: Hm?
Simon: But if you're someone who... Who? don't Don't mind. missing one year. then you can come earlier so you can fly on the thursday like before good friday and you can visit Shanghai, Beijing, you do the more traditional touristy things.
Asta Nordvig: Yes. Exactly.
Simon: And then you can get the deeper experience right after. with with the
Asta Nordvig: Great. Yeah.
Simon: Retreat.
Asta Nordvig: I think that is a great way to do it as well. because uh then you get all the excitement. you get a really nice contrast between doing all the fun touristy things and then you land in Anhui for the retreat.
Simon: Exactly.
Asta Nordvig: So.
Simon: and
Asta Nordvig: Just. quickly before.
Simon: get the depth
Asta Nordvig: Yes. Quickly, before we end, could you...
Simon: Hm?
Asta Nordvig: How do you... How can people reach you? and Haru. the book. the experience if they are interested.
Simon: Yeah, good question You go to gowuwei .com and that's... Go like this. I guess it sounds. Then W. You. W E I dot com.
Simon: And...
Asta Nordvig: All right.
Simon: We also have an Instagram. And it's also the same thing.
Asta Nordvig: Hm?
Simon: kind of name. And so that those are the two best places to sort of get started. see what's out there, get a brochure and book a call with either myself or someone from the team to just get any questions that you might have answered.
Asta Nordvig: Great. Yes? Thank you so much, Simon.
Simon: Thank you so much for having me
Asta Nordvig: is there anything else you would like to Convey before we end.
Simon: Final words. I think it's... Like you only have one life you only have one body and it is worth investing in.
Asta Nordvig: Absolutely.
Simon: You... can very very likely extend your life and life happiness and satisfaction. Bye. Amen. in terms of extending.
Simon: I'm sure days, if not weeks. if not months or years with the right habits in place. and for your everyday. well -being I don't know how to measure that. but It is worth.
Simon: putting that investment like think about how much you spend on clothes and other things but then how much do you really invest in yourself?
Asta Nordvig: Yes.
Simon: that that That I think
Asta Nordvig: you can spend on your happiness.
Simon: Yeah, it is for yourself, but also not for your just for yourself, it's for the people around you, your friends. your family, your kids.
Asta Nordvig: Hmm.
Simon: that that's want to see you happy and that that you to some extent Ok, so I mean I'm sure you want them to see you at your best self.
Simon: So, that' I guess that's where I'd live. you as a listener. with.
Asta Nordvig: Alright. That was very nice. Thank you very much, Simon.
Simon: Thank you. Thank you for having me. That's that. Bye bye.
Asta Nordvig: Thank you. Bye -bye.
