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What Leadership Skills are Needed to Drive Technological Change? A Conversation with Tom Kosnik of Visus Group
49 Plays10 months ago
Despite industry employment levels plateauing at approximately 2 percent of the U.S. workforce over the past 30 years, technology seems to hold the key to staffing agency growth. Imagine a staffing platform that empowers recruiters to move from handling 10-15 active assignments simultaneously to managing 30, 40, or even 50 active assignments effortlessly. But true transformation goes beyond technology—it requires visionary leadership and strategic acumen to ensure successful technological selection and adoption. Today, we're joined by Tom Kosnik, president of Visus Group, LLC, who will share his insights on the leadership skills needed to drive technological change.
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Transcript
Leadership and Technological Transformation
00:00:00
Speaker
In today's fast-paced world, staying ahead means embracing technological change. As staffing leader, you understand the imperative to adapt, but often it's not the lack of tools that holds us back but a gap in vision and strategy. So what does it truly take to lead your agency to the forefront of technological innovation? Believe it or not, even the least technologically savvy expert can still lead successfully. Join us on this episode of Aviante Digital Edge as we explore the essential skills and mindset leaders need to succeed in navigating technological transformation.
00:00:39
Speaker
From visionary leadership to agile adaptation, we'll uncover the keys to knowing what skills are needed to unlock the full potential of technology to reshape your agency's future.
00:00:57
Speaker
Welcome to this edition of Aviante Digital Edge, where we sit down with leading industry experts to examine the role of digital transformation in staffing. I'm your host, Chris Ryan, Chief Strategy and Marketing Officer for Aviante.
Challenges in Staffing and Technology Adoption
00:01:10
Speaker
It's no secret that staffing is lagging when it comes to technological change, but with the rapid evolution of mobile technology and end-to-end staffing platforms, change is here whether you like it or not, and those who embrace it will be the ones who thrive. Today's staffing agencies find themselves in a relentless pursuit for revenue growth. However, despite their best efforts, industry employment levels have plateaued at approximately 2% of the US workforce over the last 30 years. And this stagnation is especially striking when juxtaposed with the exponential growth of global dynamic workforce and the meteoric rise of staffing platforms which continue to claim larger portions of market share.
00:01:55
Speaker
In the face of this reality, staffing agencies confront a daunting task, the imperative to adapt. And this means leadership that moves beyond a narrow focus on specific challenges and instead embraces a holistic view of the landscape. Consider this. Even today, a skilled recruiter can often only juggle 15 to 20 active placements at one time. But what if we could discover the perfect staffing platform software that places the recruiter at the epicenter, empowering them to effortlessly handle 30, 40, or even 50 or more active assignments? Imagine the possibilities. But bringing about true transformation at an agency is about more than just bringing in the right technology. It also requires leadership.
00:02:40
Speaker
with the right mix of vision and strategic acumen to navigate the path forward.
Leadership Skills for Tech Change
00:02:45
Speaker
What exactly are these skills that are needed for success in driving such change? Well, today we're joined by Tom Kosnik, president of this group, LLC, who's here to chat about leadership skills needed to drive technological change. With over two decades of experience facilitating roundtables with staffing CEOs and agency owners, Tom has a deep understanding of their priorities and challenges. So welcome back to the show, Tom. It's great to have you here. Chris, so happy to be here with you as well.
00:03:16
Speaker
So Tom, you and I have had ah several conversations about staffing agency owners and CEOs, and most of them understand that tech is important to their business. When you're talking to people in a round table, they're telling you technology is important for their business. But I've also heard you say sometimes that staffing leaders acquiesce to a technology decision rather than leading with it. So what did you mean by that? Yeah, many people in the industry, they have a challenging time determining the levels of technology expertise that they're receiving. They go to the conferences. They meet people at the conferences. They meet peers at the conferences. They may be saying one thing. They may be reading other things. They speak to people that are technology consultants that may be saying something else.
00:04:10
Speaker
And they themselves are not technology experts.
Making Effective Tech Decisions
00:04:14
Speaker
So they have a ah difficult time really understanding the levels of expertise and and then how to access those levels of expertise, technology expertise, in order to make a good decision. In addition to that, they come back to the office and all they hear is, boss, we need this new technology. Boss, we need that new technology. And it makes for a situation that many times they just throw up their hands and say, okay, let's just move forward with this.
00:04:46
Speaker
So Tom, I have to ask a question around this. Most people who get into staffing today are not technologists. Staffing is a people business and leaders in staffing are people leaders and are very focused on relationships. So if you're a staffing CEO and you're hearing a lot of noise and you're not sure whom you can trust, how do you approach this problem and how do you lead when you're not the expert? This is really important. The the clients of ours who have made really smart technology decisions. They start with the business model, Chris. In in other words, they strip their business model down. Is it a low cost provider? Is it a client intimacy? Is it an innovative business model? So they strip the business model down and they really try to understand what it is that they're trying to take to the marketplace.
00:05:37
Speaker
Once they know that, then they can move forward with finding a technology that's a best fit to help them implement that business model. and also the employee productivity levels that they're seeking. You started the podcast out talking about, hey, it's a tough time. It's 15, 20 people on billing for you know these folks on the professional side of the staffing industry. How do we get them to 40, 50, 60, 75 people billing? How do we get a B player to double their productivity? and Is technology a piece of that?
00:06:13
Speaker
And I believe technology is a piece of that. The other piece of it, Chris, is that once a technology is in place, and and you mentioned this as well in your introduction, but just utilizing an agile improvement process.
Aligning Core Competencies with Tech Choices
00:06:29
Speaker
What few new ideas are we bringing into our technology to improve things? I could tell you a whole list of stories of just simple, simple fixes that made everybody in the office more productive.
00:06:43
Speaker
It sounds like part of the issue is that staffing agencies forget who they are or or what their business model is when they start to have technology conversations. Chris, can the technology solve a specific problem or can certain technology solve a specific problem? Absolutely. But that should not drive your tech stack or that should not drive the big technology decision. but What should drive that is how do I increase productivity, gross profit for an internal producer? And what helps me bring my business model to the marketplace in the most efficient and the most effective? So i it becomes a true core competency.
00:07:25
Speaker
Something that my clients and my competitors have a tough time doing or replicating. So you mentioned core competency and I think that's an interesting discipline. If you're an IT staffing agency in Silicon Valley, your core competence is going to look very different than if you're a high volume ah light industrial staffing agency in Toledo, Ohio. And presumably you're going to have to have a point of view about how or why you are going to be better and differentiated from your competitors. And that's where the technology conversation has to start. is that That's what you're saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. Yes. And you know what happens. Again, these business owners, they're wonderful people, but they're not technologists. They go to the shows, they hear this, they talk to salespeople, they hear that, they come back to the office, they get barraged by employees wanting this and wanting that. You and I would be overwhelmed if we were in the same shoes as well.
00:08:20
Speaker
Yes, yes. So what are some of the other significant mistakes that you see staffing leaders make? When you have a round table and you're talking to staffing CEOs and executives, what kinds of conversations or challenges are they having with technology and where do you think there are
Building Qualified Cross-functional Teams
00:08:37
Speaker
opportunities? So I would say that a lot of organizations have individuals that are ah the directors of IT. t or are CIOs, but they're really not qualified to be directors of IT or CIOs. And so these are people that ah way back when, when a company was $5 million in revenue, they were hooking up printers to the computers and more of a help desk role.
00:08:58
Speaker
And as the company grew, they got sucked up into that organization and all of a sudden they're the director of IT, but they really don't have the skills. in In other words, the job has now overgrown their capabilities to really make good technology decisions. So making sure that you have ah the right person in that seat and in that role. And again, Chris, I mean, this is where a lot of my clients struggle. So really understanding what are the competencies that you need in that job in order for that individual to succeed. That's a big mistake. Not having cross-functional teams that are part of your decision-making team or helping you with developing the project plan or helping with overcoming resistance internally, not having sponsors internally and not just executive sponsors, not having internal employees that are fully committed
00:09:53
Speaker
not rewarding the behavior. I mean, I could go on and on and on, celebrating successes, not communicating. You get into the commercial world and the world is coming at them before five o'clock in the morning.
Healthy Tech Decision Processes
00:10:06
Speaker
So what does a healthy technology decision process look like? Put yourself in the shoes of the CEO of a staffing agency. What does this process look like and how should he or she be driving this and how should they be using experts and frontline users as part of the decision? When do you listen to your people and when do you direct your people ah in this process? Yeah, a good process is going to, again, start with the business model that you're trying to take to the marketplace.
00:10:34
Speaker
You're also going to access the right kind of leaders. You're also going to do internal assessments, surveys, data collection. You're going to generate or have a cross-functional team that can be part of the decision. The executive sponsor, it's not necessarily their role to make the decision, but to create the environment. and to and encourage the environment to make the right decision. Starting with the business model, accessing the right experts, collecting enough data internally, understanding what gaps, what problems do we have to solve, and asking the questions. I don't know if anybody, when they were making a technology decision to annuitate to ATS, if they've ever asked salespeople and recruiters, what tool is going to help you put more people on billing, help you go from 20 people to 30 people on billing, or
00:11:27
Speaker
2,500 hours a week to 3,500 hours a week. Put that under underneath the microscope and get them involved. Putting a project plan together is is another big piece of it, having a timeframe when things are going to get done, dealing with adversity, dealing with the providers themselves who promise X, Y, and Z and deliver E, G, and F. which you hear often. I want to say with the experts, the outside experts, their role is to provide high quality advice. So you you think about good, better, best. ah So a good external expert should be able to come in and say, Hey, here's a good solution. Here's a better solution. Here's the best solution. And here's the the pros and the cons and the benefits. Here's the cost structure. Here's the ah ROI or the results that you can expect versus, and I know you've seen this.
00:12:19
Speaker
versus you have an expert in the industry that's tied to a certain solution. And then that solution is the solution for every staffing company, please. The frontline users are using them to help vet different tools, using them for constructive feedback, and encouraging them to to help with the resistance to change. I do want to talk briefly about resistance to change because Frankly, technology can be very scary, especially for frontline recruiters. And we hear on a daily basis that artificial intelligence is coming and that when artificial intelligence isn't goofing up, it's going to come for our jobs. So how do you get people to embrace the idea that maybe they can do their workflows differently because oftentimes changing your process and your workflow go hand in hand with the technology that you're selecting? Yeah. So if the, if the change.
00:13:16
Speaker
And this, this is not just technology. This is any decision that you're making. If change is top down and and there are times where you have to make a top down decision, we're going to make an acquisition. We're going to go into this market. I mean, those are different kinds of top down decisions. ah but generally the rule of thumb is, is that if you're making a top down change, that's affecting the users that are performing those tasks, you're going to be dealing with resistance on the backend from the implementation perspective. So the idea is that people do what they help create. So let me say two things here. One, get users involved in creating the future, in developing the plan and making the decision. Getting those frontline folks to to do that's going to help out tremendously in terms of overcoming the resistance to
Measuring ROI and Productivity Gains
00:14:06
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change.
00:14:06
Speaker
And then Chris, success builds on success. I mean, ideally you pilot. ah You're in a smaller company. like I have a couple of desks pilot the program. If you're in a bigger company and you've got 30, 40 offices. have one or two offices pilot the new program and then use those as case studies for the rest of the organization to follow that success. That's just classic organizational development wisdom there. yeah you know Versus, oh, rip the Band-Aid off, ah you know well all 350 people are going to go through this change all at the same time. but
00:14:42
Speaker
but So let's talk a little bit about return on investment and metrics because I think that actually has a hand in in the whole change management process. I like to think that a good leader sets the benchmarks and sets the objectives and goals and those are the non-negotiables. And then they ask for the assistance of the organization in the how. So, you know, let's talk about metrics and what is the role of metrics in making technology decisions and how do you drive it through the entire process? Yeah. And you don't need to be a Six Sigma expert to do this, by the way. Again, I'm a firm believer to that salespeople and recruiters
00:15:22
Speaker
internal employees, they want to know what they need to do in order to be successful. What does success look like at ABC staffing? Well, success is 50 people on billing and $750,000 of gross profit production. And you know what, why is that never communicated? I think back to Jack Stack's book, The Great Game of Business, the whole idea, the the return on investments and performance metrics, the technology really needs to help increase the gross profit production per internal producer. When I hear stories, which I have heard stories, quote unquote, verbatim, Tom, we
Balancing Technology Features with Execution Quality
00:16:02
Speaker
spent $600,000 on this new technology and our productivity went down. Now from an organizational development, we know that production is going to go down for three or four months until the technology or the new workflows are adopted. But then there should be tracking that.
00:16:19
Speaker
shows productivity increases and exceeds what the productivity was before. So the ROI of any technology is did it or did it not increase gross profit production per internal producer. And then your performance metrics are always changing based on technology. Gosh, I mean, what were our performance metrics before the fax machine? What were they before email? So your performance metrics are always up for discussion and in flux. we're We're a year and a half or a year and whatever we are and and into a recession. Your performance metrics are going to change, but there's got to be a financial ROI model on every technology that you use.
00:17:03
Speaker
At what point do you determine whether it's the quality of the technology or the quality of the execution and implementation that are at fault? I mean, certainly yeah at the end of the day, we know that having a gym membership doesn't make you stronger. It's going to the gym and actually using the equipment. And oftentimes we see a staffing agency that has technology, but isn't putting it to use. I don' i don't want to i don't want to name the the technology here. But this company was 60 million in revenue. They were an engineering staffing company and they had this real fancy ATS system and a real fancy CRM system. And they hired me to do an assessment on the business because they weren't happy with productivity. So they had maybe a half a dozen sales reps, maybe a little more. I can't remember. But we get into the focus group and I started asking about metrics and productivity and tracking and uses yeah of CRMs and
00:17:57
Speaker
tools and all that stuff. And the sales reps, this is a true story. They pull out a paper copy of a printed Excel sheet, the customer's name in the handwritten notes. I said, guys, what are you doing? You guys have this CRM.
00:18:20
Speaker
But the point in my story, 80-20 rule, right? Who knows if that CRM is really fancy and and can help them do whatever they want to do. 80% of the time, the reps were not using the software. So, you know, how do you determine that? And now why are they not using the software? Is it too cumbersome? Does it take too much? I've run into that problem as well. Oh, we have to reboot our machines half a dozen times every day. Oh, it takes us 15 clicks to add one note to the system. So that's when you go shop the market. How easy is it to import data? How easy is it to save a note? How easy is it to set up pending call? And if it's a series of clicks and scratches and get up and run around the desk three times and sit down, probably the technology.
00:19:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting, Todd. I think you raise an important point, which is that oftentimes it's those small tasks that you do over and over every day that are often absolutely critical in helping to get your work done or rethinking your workflows in such a way that you take the complexity out of whatever it is that you're trying to do. I will say that in my time as a consultant in the past, the spreadsheet test was an interesting one. How many Excel spreadsheets do you need to manage your business? And the more there are, the more likely it is that your technology and your processes are broken. So I think that that's a very important test.
00:19:40
Speaker
So let's talk a little bit about implementing technology and getting everyone on board when there are trade offs. One of the things that I've often seen when we're making technology decision is that oftentimes a firm will lock into a favorite feature or a feature that somebody believes is absolutely critical to their business. But more broadly, because they are focused on that feature, they are giving away capabilities that would make them a lot more productive. So how do you tackle that issue? And how do you tackle the issue of standardized training and tools as you grow a customer base? I love the movie Moneyball. It's where you're bringing in just hardcore data and analyzing that data.
00:20:26
Speaker
Oh my gosh, I get these clients where, you know, you have the pull down menu and then you have the option to create certain responses. Well, after two weeks, you got 50 responses in there. And then what happens? People stopped using it because it takes more time to go find the response. Well, it's just faster for me to type it in all the time than to use the pull down menu to your point. Hence and they're not utilizing it correctly. And so then it makes it less time efficient.
Managing Tech Complexity for Productivity
00:20:53
Speaker
So that whole specialization customization, it's again, getting folks in the room, showing them the data, showing them the case studies. Again, Chris, another client verbatim, quote unquote, we bought this tool. We wanted to customize it this way. Finally, the vendor came and they met with us and they said, stop, just use the tool at its basic level, the way it was built to work. Okay. We'll give that a shot.
00:21:19
Speaker
So of course they did it, productivity just kept going up and up and up because people just want simple technology that works. Now this is a management error. So when management can't get employees in a room and say, guys, here's the case study. Here's the data. We can have six responses to this pull down menu. Period. What are they? Nobody else is going to add anything else in here. So that's where somebody and um at a manager level, at some level is making those decisions and directing those types of conversations. that makes a great deal of sense. I think what you're saying here is that sometimes without management intervention, the organization can grow its complexity to a point where the technology no longer has value. And that's the time where leadership needs to look at the productivity metrics, look at the core operations of the business and say, we have to do something differently. We need to build organizational consensus and we're going to go in this direction.
00:22:16
Speaker
I always advise my client, hey, just buy this tool and just let's get everybody utilizing 80% of this tool. Just start with the basics and let let's get everybody using 80% of the tool. And if you just rally the troops around guys, okay, features are not off the table, but what's on the table right now is we got to utilize 80% of this tool at its basic ground foundational level. So help help us determine how we're going to do that. how we're going to test it, how we're going to make sure. Gosh, in my CFO round table, you're going to laugh when I tell you this. At CFO round table, the CFOs are always tasked with doing the tech stack assessment and what technologies we need and which ones we don't need. And occasionally I hear, oh yeah, I just stopped paying for that technology and shut it off and nobody ever complained. So they were yeah paying for whatever. But back to the implementation of these technologies, just start with the basics, get everybody
00:23:11
Speaker
onboard operating the system at its basic level and utilizing 80% of the software. It kills me when I hear that, oh, we're only using 20% of the capability of the software. Oh my gosh. And they're spending how much money per user per month. Again, that's a management failure, Chris. That's a management failure. Thanks, Tom. This has been extraordinarily informative. If we had to summarize what kind of leadership is required to effectively drive technological selection and change, what kind of mindset, what kind of leadership is required to lead a staffing agency through technological change today, and what kinds of strategies do you recommend that leaders employ to bring about the transformation in their organization?
00:23:59
Speaker
Yeah. When I think about leadership, mindset of the leaders, they're the senior change agent, Chris. So they fully understand and they embody that change is upon us and it's coming fast and hard and that they have to be the leaders of change.
Strategies for Leading Tech Transitions
00:24:17
Speaker
So that the ones that are succeeding with these decisions, they spend time, what's coming out two years out, what's coming down three years out, what's coming five years So there's a visionary aspect, there's a change agent aspect, and then there's just an executive sponsorship slash cheerleader slash supportive of problem solving, supportive of implementation, where they're positive about, look guys, I, okay, we hit a speed bump in the road. Okay. We got a flat tire. Let's fix the flat tire and get back on highway. So when I think about the leadership mindset, and when I think about
00:24:56
Speaker
The strategies, again, tapping into the right people that can advise externally and internally. And here's where you just got to be honest with yourself. If you got people internally that don't have the capabilities or the knowledge, you may need to swap them out or you may need to find good cross-functional teams, salespeople, recruiters, back office. When to an organization's just let recruiters make the decision, not good. And everybody else in your, why did the recruiters get to make this decision? cross-functional teams.
00:25:27
Speaker
having champions, having a project plan, using an agile improvement process, measuring success. I have to ask you it as we go through this, what do you say to the staffing leader who says, hey, tell me to think one, two years out or you know to put together these teams. I'm worried about simply driving enough revenue or revenue growth for next week. Everyone is focused on revenue growth and sales right now. What do you say to the leader who's so focused on sales How do you balance the short term and the long term here? Yeah. Hey, so that's a leader manager, right? And they're really not leading. They're basically managing day to day, week to week. That's really a manager and not a business owner. And so for that individual, I say to them, Hey, get your head out of the sand, pick up the phone and go start talking and make friends with people that have successfully grown staffing companies to north of a hundred million in revenue. Find out what they read.
00:26:27
Speaker
Find out who they talk to, find out how much time they spend at conferences and reading books and things like that. It's so funny, Chris, the new members that we're picking up in our round table program, they're all saying the same thing. The most meaningful learning is peer learning.
Learning from Peers and Industry Practices
00:26:44
Speaker
The thing that we get the most out of is when we're learning from our peers. I always say make friendly competitors. And by the way, the man, the woman, the family that owns the 350 or the half billion dollar staffing company, a lot of times those people are more than happy to go out to lunch and to share ideas and find out about you and your business. So anyway, that's that's what I would recommend to that individual because what happens is that they're going to hit the plateau and they're the bottleneck.
00:27:13
Speaker
So Tom, well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure having you back on the show and thank you for sharing your perspectives with us. It's clear that leadership plays a pivotal role in technology in the staffing industry. And I think a lot of what you shared today suggests that leaders need to lead. And even if you're not a technology expert, you still have a critical role in driving the way technology gets implemented in an organization. And also a big thank you to our audience for tuning in. This episode, as well as all other episodes of Aviante Digital Edge is available on our website.
00:27:49
Speaker
and across all major podcasting platforms. Don't forget to like and subscribe to stay updated on future episodes. And to learn more about Aviante, visit our website at aviante dot.com. I'm Chris Ryan, and thank you once again for joining us. And we look forward to having you back with us for future episodes of this program.