Transcript
Speaker: How do we do this? a So we always ask our clients to give us a window of three, sometimes to nine months, so that we can be on the land, walk, stay on the land, map everything, the visible and invisible nature, see how the neighborhood relates to this piece of land, and understand, for example, if the trees have a particular meaning in the different cultures,
Speaker: Hello and welcome to the Regenerative Design Podcast. I'm your host, Mathieu Mehuys, and in this show, I interview the leading authorities in the world of regenerative practices, people who do good and do well.
Speaker: Are you a person that cares about your environment and our planet, that wants to leave the planet to our children to be something that we can be truly proud of? to enjoy for many generations to come but are you also a person that believes we can do all of this and do good in business i have really good news for you you're here listening to the podcast that is all about making our planet a better place and making your business more successful enjoy the show All right. Welcome to another episode of the Regenerative Design Podcast with your host, Mathieu Mehaus. And today we have another amazing guest. His name is Pablo Luna.
Speaker: And Pablo Luna is running his own studio, of his own architecture from firm called Pablo Luna Studio. and he's a super talented architect who has been working with bamboo and other nature-based materials.
Speaker: He's super talented. I found some fun facts actually. you're So you're originally from Chile, but your parents are Peruvian-Lebanese. That's a very interesting mix. And so, yeah, I'm super excited to to have you on the show, Pablo.
Speaker: How are you doing today? Hi, Matthew. Thank you so much for and the invitation. I am super grateful to be here today and to share a bit of our work and dive deep together with you into yeah architecture and creation.
Speaker: Yeah, i'm I'm super excited about that too. And so, yeah, you're you're in Bali. It's super early for you. I'm in my afternoon. But ah yeah, so I first want to get started with like your super...
Speaker: focused on using or using nature and architecture as something like a lot of people will separate nature from architecture, but your work is very clear on combining nature and the built environment and and the surrounding too.
Speaker: But before we really dive into that, I'd love to hear like your backstory. How how did you get into this and where did everything start? um Yes, so I started, um really all started in university in New York. I had the pleasure at the beginning of studying business, but I never found myself fully aligned with that career.
Speaker: And at some point I decided to try an architecture studio class and in which it was all about model making and creation and experimentation. The class I still remember was called Perception.
Speaker: And in that class, I yeah got in contact with this idea of how the spaces that we design, design as in return, and how a proportion, light, different shapes affect the way we move and relate. So very early from that first class, I decided like, wow, I want to really a kind of jump into this journey.
Speaker: i And what really expanded the journey was when I finished university in New York, I had the blessing to get a job for a year and a half in Bali in a hotel called Bam Buinda with an incredibly talented family. and And during that year and a half, I really got to explore different natural materials, contextual to Bali, to bai for this island in Indonesia. particularly bamboo. and Yeah, and that was the beginning after that year and a half of of i beginning my own journey, my own studio. And now it's been around 10 years since that day. So I'm i'm super grateful.
Speaker: Yeah, that's so cool. And i want to yeah we ah we I had the joy to meet you here in the Azores in San Miguel Island. And we had an incredible dinner. And then you also explained that, I don't know if that's linked to what you were doing in that one and a half years, but you were also at the Green School in Bali, which if you haven't heard of the Green School, check it out. like the It's probably, it was the kind of, the is it correct to say that the Green School in Bali was like,
Speaker: the biggest innovation in bamboo structures at that time. And and you were right there. like Can you explain a bit more of of of that background there? So I arrived when the Green School was already ah built, and but I got the honor to work with the people that have envisioned all this project, the founders, John and Cynthia Hardy, and the whole Hardy family.
Speaker: and i had very little to do with nothing to do with that project, really. But yeah a just being around that building and having the contact day to day that I did have during that year and a half, and because actually the founders of the Green School were my my my boss, basically, back in the day.
Speaker: and ah So they have the green school and that hotel, it's the same owners. Exactly. And Bamboo Inda, that is called the hotel. so nice So I was really working on the hotel, but I got a lot day to day things get intertwined and I got a lot of opportunities to interact with the school and a lot of the parents from the school are today still my friends and actually some of them are my clients. So it was a beautiful, yeah.
Speaker: And then I'd love to understand, Mark, because I love that you're like, you were in business probably was something that, I don't know, either your parents told you to do or you were interested in or or you thought like, oh, business, that's what I want to do. And then you find yourself in that situation, not not really happy.
Speaker: Or or yeah I'd love to hear more like, what what was for you the real shift to say, okay, ah I'm going to pursue um architecture and the business around that too, rather than than pure business?
Speaker: and I love to to draw, to paint and to actually do little sculptures since very young. But in school in Chile, where I lived until I was around 18, 20, that was my teachers will not allow me to go from to the next year. but Basically, they will not put me the grades that I needed. They wouldn't. I felt quite rejected. my ex And it wasn't something that was really promoted much. So it's something that I left aside and i grew all their business was one of the five traditional options that you could take on.
Speaker: and I went to a school that was very humanitarian. I loved to read. I loved to philosophy. So I didn't last long either. And when I moved to New York, it was like kind a reinvention in many levels. Because in New York, nobody was judging. There were more people where there was there is still today is a very creative city. and We're actually, yeah, diving into...
Speaker: no limits. So so that that transition allowed me to reconnect, to kind of find myself and explore a bit more areas that I have but forgotten growing up.
Speaker: and And that architecture studio class came like in the midst of it in the between and ended up really taking my heart and and leading me in this path, which is quite incredible actually.
Speaker: Yeah, no, I love that story. And I think it's it's very common for people that the kind of go through life and maybe they they're there. Well, I had it myself. Like I was I was traveling the world. I was doing all kinds of things like exploring, visiting eco resorts. And it was all amazing.
Speaker: But then at some point I had to like do something with all the knowledge that I had gathered. And, and it took a bit of time to, to kind of come back to your alignment and then boom, go full force.
Speaker: And it sounded like that time in New York was a pivotal moment to, to get into, into your inner alignment, to be like, okay, this is what I'm born to do. Um, and, and still I'd like to understand a little bit more because that's, I like, I think that's fascinating. Like you, you finished business in New York and then you did that class and then you started,
Speaker: of them in architecture or you still had a ah formal architecture degree that you that you did too or how did it all evolve from there so basically i just got a bachelor in architecture haven't i cannot sign as an architect yeah and and i got this bachelor and then i moved to valley and in valley a A lot of my experience was in construction. And then actually when I finished working with in the hotel, i decided to i started doing furniture. i started
Speaker: My first house was actually very little design and full-on construction. wow. So I learned a lot and I felt every building that I got my hands on was like a master in architecture, really. A master in detail, a master in experience, how things got put together. And and and the first years were really about these discoveries of how to work with materials, testing their boundaries, the possibilities that it offered. actually arrived in a time that in Bali there was a lot of
Speaker: and opportunity for innovation. So I always have said said that when when when a place that is still a little bit cow chaotic, there is a lot of opportunity for creativity.
Speaker: yeah i So there was a a lot of experimentation. Now, Bali every day have gotten structured together and there is processes. But back only 10 years ago, there was much more room for for innovation and I felt like it was a blessing to be able to be part of that wave and try different things and and and learned at a very small scale. yeah.
Speaker: so yeah and Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And then so you're add you're in Bali and then super exciting. Yeah, I'd love to hear more from you, your take on the the the situation in Bali. Like I visited myself, I think it was seven years ago and 20, 30 years ago, the island was so pristine and I saw lots of videos that people are building like crazy in the rice fields and and like it's losing a little bit of its charm. I feel maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker: So I'd love to hear your take on that and and how your work actually improves that challenge with like so much development is going on. Yeah. Yes, I feel that valley and For sure, it's going through a very big transition where there is a lot of buildings coming up um and not necessarily everybody is creating with full
Speaker: respect to the traditions and respect to the community and an awareness of the environment in which they are settled, and which for sure is sad.
Speaker: um At the same time, I think Bali still has a very promising future. The Balinese culture is such a, they have such a strong and roots, pride, beliefs that still I think and for me, Bali is just magic. Whoever comes to Bali, most of it, there is certain areas which are, have become quite crowded and touristic, but most of the island, if you go around, you will still connect with the, with the tradition and its beauty and that it can be seen in the architecture, in the daily rituals. and Actually, tomorrow there is a very important ceremony here that is called Galungan. Oh yeah, remember that. And for me, being in Bali and having in my team and what I consider also my Balinese family so close for so many years has deeply impacted how I see myself and the work that I do. Because...
Speaker: and There is and a different set of values by living and on on the east part of the world, and especially in this island in which... and yeah in in which honoring or living in harmony with nature, with God and with yourself is so much more priority that whatever you create, whatever status you can get, power, money, etc. And that is ah an understanding that is deeply embedded in how they live and which provides a source of joy, a source of connection to everything they create, a source of gratitude for life that
Speaker: has really, really shifted my perception on on our architecture and how I related my process of creating architecture, which has been a huge blessing, which is now a much more feminine process, much more account process, much more a process that comes more from understanding a territory, a culture.
Speaker: and trying to create from trying to create with community, with nature, with respect, even to and all the layers that we can connect socially, environmentally, culturally. so And this is something that I have learned here, and I continue to learn, and and and and that's why I'm very grateful, and that's why I believe the wisdom of this island a To anybody that allows themselves to fully immerse here is something that is available for everybody. and Yeah, and it's is' a huge gift.
Speaker: This podcast is brought to you by the Garden of Your Dreams Masterclass. Are you struggling with finding the right tools and tricks for your garden? Are you lacking the confidence to be a self-sufficient gardener?
Speaker: Do you sometimes get overwhelmed by the lack of knowledge and time you have to actually do gardening? Then the Garden of Your Dreams Masterclass is for you.
Speaker: Wow, I love that how you got that inspiration from being there and use that in your business and and kind of sounds like it's your business ethics or or your driving force of how you operate.
Speaker: and And yeah, I love what you say about how to like you start with observation, like all my projects we spent ah large amount um in understanding the current condition of the land before we make any changes um because oftentimes nature will actually direct me to what can happen to the place um rather than coming in and taking a piece of paper and just drawing something that may look good on paper but if it's not connected to
Speaker: to the local conditions, the community, what what the land needs, what the highest potential can be, that them then it's it may work short term, but long term it's gonna it's going to collapse.
Speaker: So I'd love to hear more about your your specific process. like I'd love to dissect how how do you work with clients um or even before like they they come to you,
Speaker: How do you get to to the point where you say, OK, we're going to start working? at Like, what's the pre-process? I love to understand. And then once you start, how how does that continue? Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Thank you. That's a bit um a very important question and a beautiful question for me because I have put a lot of intention into every step of our design journey and to whom and we and what we create.
Speaker: So the first step, if we go to the zero point, is that first I want to say that this has been a journey to arrive here. okay not a I feel like our philosophy has been shifted throughout the years. The value for me is always there are certain values in my company that I always try to live up to. that are honesty, responsibility in design,
Speaker: and excellence, or like, and by this, by mean, like, really taking the time to look at every possible detail. And of course, through the years, you grow, you learn, and and and and and you can do things better. And And when I mean excellence, it's also like on how, with whom, and why, and and what we we decide to create. So the first step has been really to communicate to the world this intention through our social media, through our website, of the people that we want to call in that can resonate with our view. That is a very... we
Speaker: we vary We really want to be very respectful with our creation. I think it's a huge responsibility to create any piece, especially considering how long they last, the impact they have in how we move and the impact that it has in their way in in everything, and in the street, in the ways, in terms of electricity, in water. there There is so much that ah any building brings, even if it's sometimes perceived as invisible.
Speaker: a that we are trying to be very honest and and and bring awareness to all of these elements. And for that, the barry the most important step is to give space and um a space for investigation and understanding.
Speaker: and How do we do this? a So we always ask our clients to give us a window of three, sometimes to nine months, so that we can be on the land, walk, stay on the land,
Speaker: map everything, the visible and invisible nature, see how the neighborhood relates to this piece of land, and understand, for example, if the trees have a particular meaning in the different cultures, and then connect with people that can guide us a as such as historians, academics, a permaculture experts, landscape architects.
Speaker: If it's a wellness project, a wellness center, then of course we looked at all the at water, energy, waste, not just in the micro scale, but how is that country relating to this and what is going to happen with the waste that is going to be produced. We we tried to really look at all of these elements and for that we call it territorial studies or land studies.
Speaker: and And there is a phrase that I love that is the they attention is the beginning of devotion.
Speaker: So meaning once you bring awareness into all of these elements, now you cannot look to the side and make like they don't exist. So that's why this space is so important because what is happening today is is that we rush into the design process without giving us the space for the land to speak for itself in a way or for us to try to really connect and understand it.
Speaker: And the result that we have in experiences is quite magical because once you start walking on the land, feeling the land, now instead of us manipulating it very fast on how the way we want to go the land starts to tell you like beet fruit, views, the trees, the movement of the people, the neighborhood. There is so many elements to take in consideration.
Speaker: That is like telling you, hey, Pablo, here there is a space for integration, but here there is other things happening. there is It can be that certain animals live in that space. It can be that certain areas in different cultures, because now we're very lucky to work in Mexico, here in Uganda, and inri they they looked at architecture even in relationship to the cosmos, to the stars, to the openings that you need for the energy to flow.
Speaker: a And also some of the decisions are very intuitive. Like, I don't know, like spaces that spaces get activated at different times of the day. So for example, if you want to do a yoga shala, you know that at sunrise and sunset is when you're going to mostly connect with it. So a yoga shala, and this is for conversation with yoga teacher, is a lot more, about your relationship with the sun. already understanding this is giving you a cue of where the yoga should be. And if you position it correctly, imagine just positioning correctly that building,
Speaker: Now, when you inhabit that space, let's say in sunrise, the teacher is going to be in a place where all the students can look at sunrise. But in sunset, the teacher intuitively, without talking, is going to move to the complete other end. And now all the students are going to look at sunset. So without even speaking, the architecture is allowing you to connect with, is allowing you to move in response to what is happening outside.
Speaker: And that for me is is kind of the magic because you start realizing that there is a, a greater interdependence and it's not architecture just perceived as a wall where I protect myself from the environment and it's like here and I but we can connect with all the energy or all the life and and really i mean passive energy like the sun the light the winds and you can take advantage of that and that is there for all of us to take the beauty of connecting with our garden and
Speaker: And if you're intentional, you then you can... reallay One layer more is like the spaces we inhabit in impregnate mannerisms in us. And certain houses will be all about...
Speaker: and guiding you to the television. But if you actually want to bring further life, it can be all about that connection to the garden or that, you know, that allows you to breathe, that allows you to bring further vitality. And it's very subtle. And this can go to even another level, textures, materials, different materials have different textures and textures will awaken, a rough texture will awaken you, a soft texture will invite comfort.
Speaker: Different smells will activate in the morning or will invite a sense of sleep. And those smells are already in the land. And we are walking and we are mapping them. Sound is super important. When the wind comes, maybe it brings us the sound of the highway or it brings the sounds of the ocean. And do I want to go to sleep with this? How do I position my building in relation to this?
Speaker: So it takes a bit more of time, but the results are, it's like coming back to common sense. The results are very simple, actually. All the gestures end up being very simple, especially today that we have died deeper, especially in our latest projects, because every day we understand it more.
Speaker: but but But it takes a lot of, it's like you're connecting with the stories and and and and this takes a lot of effort to communicate sometimes to the client, to give us that space.
Speaker: Yeah, I love that. It creates a lot of effort but also a lot of courage to say that because a lot of clients will be like what are you going to take three to nine months uh to to do that like but then maybe it's not the right client or it's not the right fit you you want to work with the people that that already understand like oh this is or maybe don't fully understand the ones they have a conversation with you like you just explained to me they go like oh wow that makes a lot of sense because as you explain this what you just said i could see like
Speaker: one of your beautiful buildings. And we're going to look at at some, we're going to share screen ah for people that are are ah watching on YouTube. But if you're listening on Spotify, you can go to to YouTube.
Speaker: But imagine you design that perfect building that everything inside is perfectly arranged. And then you put it on the wrong location. Like you you, instead of the right spot, you put it five meters more down and and tilt it to another direction.
Speaker: And still, like from the objectively, it will look nice. It will like look good. But you just missed a huge opportunity, like you said, that to attract the sunlight, to come in from two angles. like The whole experience of the building is 100% different, even if it's beautiful and well-designed.
Speaker: I love that, how much care and and passion do you have into taking the time to to listen. Because when you do that, you're more like a translator of the land or you're more like a, you're like, i i actually say that to a lot of my clients that I teach how to create their own guards.
Speaker: I say, you got to think like Sherlock Holmes. You got to become the investigator. You got to like take out that, that, magnifying glass and go out in the land and understand like what's the conditions where are the sun the like everything you explained you gotta spend like more time than you actually think to do that because then then the design process is a is a logical consequence to me and and it's not like uh because to me and you i'd love to hear your take on that design
Speaker: is a way to work with land or translate the functionalities of what the land already has into something that's practical. And then because you follow that sequence, naturally everything looks beautiful and well designed and not the other way around where you try to manipulate the the landscape or the nature, try to squeeze it in.
Speaker: i really I'm very fascinated too about that. And 100% agree with that. And it's beautiful to know that you actually spent three to nine months on the land studies.
Speaker: So, and then I, yeah, we can still talk more about the the rest of the process, but what what happens next? How do you take your clients on on ah on a wild journey from that first understanding to the building is ready. Let's bring in the guests or ah if people live there, yeah, what's what's the rest of the process?
Speaker: So I think you said two two words that are very important that for me, I say the same to my team. So the first bit, we are like researchers or investigators, like we are really, and it's very beautiful because in every project, we are students. And there is something that I love that is is not to create or to make or to design architecture, it's to practice architecture. So it's a practice, very much like you practice meditation.
Speaker: You're a student, you're coming there to learn, it's a relationship. And you, it's going to be a forever journey. And that's something that is very humbling and very, for me, it's very inspiring because for me it's it's not, ah it's it's about this investigation of life. For me, it's much more than just architecture is is a way of understanding how we live.
Speaker: and So that first part is investigation. And then exactly as you said, is translation. And the translation and is is is rather challenging. I'm not going to lie. and Because So you need to, you have all the boundaries and you understand what you want to create.
Speaker: and And there is two bits. So one is understanding of the land. And then there is the understanding of the program that you want to create, what are the needs, the operations, the finances, the local materials, the local traditions. and So it's then the integration of all the other specialties. So there is a lot, it's a very complex art.
Speaker: and And you need to mix all of them. And the most important, and this is the very challenging part, is that you actually need to do it beautifully. So the building in terms of proportion, in terms of how the light comes at different times of the day, how the lived experience feels, has to be... a has to read and and And that takes time. that There is no other way. I feel at sometimes with our buildings, it's like...
Speaker: You need to go through a physical process of completely surrendering to the flow of design. And and and and it's a lot of invitation with our team. and and And every time, I don't know how we're going to make it. It's not like now that we have designed, I don't know, 30 or 40 structures now, it's come easy. Every project is a huge challenge. And it's very humbling.
Speaker: And I just come from, we're doing actually the another project in Portugal, in Peniche. It's incredible. like Today we we give our soul into it and we couldn't get something that I felt, wow, this is meeting everything. So tomorrow going to have to go again. And it's exciting.
Speaker: and go to brief and and continue. and But then, yeah, that's the process. You get with your team, I believe, a lot, as we did before starting the podcast, in in setting an intention, in trying to be very honest and not letting kind of... I don't care in our team who has the idea. For me, it's all about that those ideas are responding to this process beautifully.
Speaker: Because if not, everybody will do it, I feel. And the challenge is... You need to bring, you need to do this with grace. And that takes time and hours and hours and hours of practice. You practice, you practice, you practice. And at some point,
Speaker: you get somewhere that it's, wow, this is actually were what we were meant to do here. And you don't know when that's going to come. So it's incredible. I love that. Yeah, I think the way you say, like, um it's about doing it gracefully. That's even more than just creating something beautifully because gracefully is like way more humble and saying, okay, we we you could compromise at some point in your design process, you can compromise the local conditions, the sun, just to make it look like make it work, right? You compromise in some levels, but that that's like the easy way or the easier way
Speaker: um but you so you you you keep going and um until you find the right solution. And I find it also very fascinating in my design work is that we have to like constantly go through ah a kind of a loop where we we we start somewhere with all the information, we start making our first designs, we find, oh, this is cool, that looks nice, and then it's like, oh, but that that's not to work, this is wrong, that's all wrong, and now we've got to have to destroy that idea again and and it and not really start over again because you already have like the design process. The failure of like the previous design brings you one step closer to the actual design. And you and I find i have to go through a few rounds of of failure before um you get to where you you want to be. And even then, it can be a challenging. Like, oh, is it really the best solution or can we still
Speaker: ah And then you even go in construction, you go on on the land as you build it. Sometimes we still make changes too. um We have a very similar process. We have a very similar process because we do the same. I always explain this a loop. You design. You realize, wow, we're not meeting all that because then you go through your checklist.
Speaker: Wow, we forgot it. Then you go again and then you're more and at some point you you get them all. And in construction, we do the same. I have a construction company and it's like, wow, I need to change now all the drawings because I need 30 centimeters more height.
Speaker: And it's got to be done. And that's the thing. There is no, for me, there is no doubt. i will redo all the drawings because those 30 centimeters will change the experience to such a level that is, it'ss there is no other possibility.
Speaker: No, no, that's super interesting to to see that. And so, Then how do your clients perceive your process? that like and i First of all, i love your honesty and and being so open to to sharing your your process because I'm guessing, assuming, even for my project, at times the clients can be like, okay, we need to move forward. we need like It can be challenging. how How do you balance that your client? Like, hey, we need the drawings. We need to start building versus, no, we need the time to
Speaker: to sit down and really nail all this? how How do you navigate that? So, look, we I always say to, to and it has been the main focus of my attention, is a more than the technical skills, what I value a lot is communication and organization.
Speaker: ah Because most of the problems that happen is because of that. Today we have six projects. Lack of communication. Today we have six projects in six different countries around the world. And all of them, and I can tell you from my heart, today i have zero stress or zero pressure because we have structured the studio in a way that every project has a dedicated team which only focuses this project, which is between ah four to five people.
Speaker: That team, every week we text our clients and we're very vulnerable in our process. And every two weeks we have a call with them and we show them how we're thinking. And sometimes we show them, look, we were exploring this, it didn't work, but so...
Speaker: If I need to ask for an extension, which is rare and because we are fully dedicated into this every day, and but they they have been through the journey with us. Yeah, that's interesting. And the same in the early stages when we are doing the study.
Speaker: All these stories, I will share the screen also just very quickly. Yeah, we can that. All the stories that I was telling you before from the early stages, yeah we are mapping. Can you see here?
Speaker: Yeah, perfect. Thank you. So we are mapping them. And we're telling them how we're perceiving the land and we're doing beautiful graphics. This is all the identification notes of one of our projects, access and circulation, ah all the views sketch so that we can really consider them, understanding the sun path, but not just the the salt is the equinox, how things shift from morning to evening.
Speaker: and the wind path, the wind analysis. So we are all the time working on this and sharing this with them very beautifully so that they can connect with the value of everything, even microclimates to understand the temperatures that we want to achieve um and understanding how the and the the the sun is hitting the different facades of our buildings, how the water moves through the side and how we can harness it in a better way or what the challenges are.
Speaker: All the trees that are on the land, the shade that they provide, we go even deeper. We get the medicinal properties of the trees, the ancestral meaning for that particular culture. We map every single animal because for us,
Speaker: These are the all the animals and some of them were just seen by the people that ah take that were the security guards of the land or like the villagers that pass around. And we interview everybody. I don't care. We talk with everybody and they give us the tips and we understand. Because for me, our a client is anybody that is going to have ah any living being that is going to have a personal experience of our our our architecture. So I want to design things.
Speaker: It's the fishermen, it's the villages, is of course the person that are paying us, it's the staff, and it's also the animals. I want to design with awareness to them. and So based on these studies, we can start creating different zoning programs and then we do the same with materials. We we see, okay, what materials are available in in that region.
Speaker: And then we try to understand their availability, how they respond to the different elements. and And then we even explain ourselves. We do it for ourselves, but we map the different types. For example, this is the palm leaf, the different types of weaving that exists. and And this is by talking to the local people. This is nothing new. The same with the Bajareque, the earthblocks.
Speaker: um Then we look what are the consultants that are reasonably around a thousand kilometer distance from the place. So again, all the all the answers are local.
Speaker: It just takes time. a And then, of course, sometimes we provide innovations. But... But as we go through the process, every two weeks we're showing the client, look, we discover all of these things. This the materials that we're mapping. This is inspiration. This is inspiration buildings or or techniques that we want to bring. a So they are bringing their ideas also. And they sometimes we miss certain things or they have a friend here, et cetera. It's very human.
Speaker: Mm-hmm. And that's very intentional. That's why I don't take more than six projects per year because I don't want to grow more. That's what I can handle personally. Of course, having a dedicated team of five people, but I want to be, I am involved in every, every single building that we do because I'm passionate about it. just like it. It's not very smart because I just love it. and And, and that's how we do it too.
Speaker: So I never have pressure. Actually, I have clients now telling me, I want you to take more time. Imagine that. take more time because I want to go deeper because then these are the stories, you know, ah there is something about and there and and understanding of beauty that it can be like a beautiful building or a beautiful, wow. And you're like, wow.
Speaker: But is if it's just superficial, and ah it will fade away quite fast. But if you start connecting and no this was and the and the people can tell you, like this was created for this reason, this represents this, or you yourself start noticing the similarities between the context and the landscape in which you are and how that is relating to the traditions.
Speaker: and How the water, how the energy, how all the, those are the, that's for me the real beauty and that stands the test of time. And actually those are the stories that make every land different because every land the contours will be different. and The way the sun hits, the wind that comes is much as you can get how people perceive it.
Speaker: So that makes every land, every piece of land here, I see it as a heaven on earth. And it's like, you just need to take the time to connect to it, to understand it and the possibilities that it will bring. And it will make difference from every other project. That's why a every project will be so a unique. and and And before I was...
Speaker: Earlier years, we were working primarily in Bali. And for example, bamboo was an incredible material for us because it's locally available. They use it in there and in their ceremonies. They do kites with it. There is a a long tradition of artisans here. But today we're working in Bhutan, in Portugal, in Mexico, and they have their own local materials. And we are learning so much about how those materials and why there is ancestral wisdom there. How I want to bring a different material that there is the artisans in Portugal that I've been working with earth with earth, with stone, with, yeah, you know, things that are already there for years.
Speaker: So so it's very common it's it's a lot of common sense at the end, but it takes a lot of investigation to come back to common sense. So it's kind of funny, but but it does. Yeah, that's funny or interesting. No, it's it's a doing the work that nobody wants to do or or very few people dare to do is to go kind of go against the stream of like,
Speaker: everything's going so fast. We have deadlines, budgets. Your client is kind of stressed and you you you immerse in that stress and you say, okay, I'm going deliver and we're going to do this, this.
Speaker: And then then you have to compromise, compromise, compromise. And then at the end of the project, maybe you had an initial great intention and and a good idea. And then it's just like a ah very small percentage or a diluted version of of what you originally wanted to do. And then after it's built, then it doesn't work, with or then you have problems with the wildlife or the clients have or the the visitors have a wrong experience or all the costs keep rising like that's what i see with a lot of clients that we get in touch with they often have already done some flu work to the land and without much thinking they actually with actually with good intention that's where intention can be tricky too like i i had someone who reached out to us through an agronomist who
Speaker: very wealthy person and bought a piece of land and ah because he wanted to give back and do something for agriculture. And so the first thing he did He actually said, like, oh, you know what? I bulldozed the whole land, the whole farm. So I removed all the topsoil. So now we have a clean sheet. And now we can start um consulting and improving. And we're like, just you just destroyed. It's very sad. You destroyed, like, the nature, the already, the soil, everything that's good.
Speaker: So a lot of it's ah it takes a lot of educating your clients and and or educating my clients and understanding what what it is. And I love your approach that you're actually taking your clients on the journey rather than like, oh, OK, we're going to start now. And in one year, we will present you the the final version of everything.
Speaker: And then they're they're going to be like, i have to wait a year, first of all. You can't get feedback from them. And they will be like, if you Like you could come up with a design, right? You could make it quickly, do it like present it to the client. The client's like, wow, this is amazing. I love it. Let's build it.
Speaker: and then it's not embedded in in in the local conditions ah and then it's it's going to fail or it will have problems. But the way you're doing it is like you're showing the client why why are we doing this whole process because not very few people understand that why why it makes sense. So I'm very pleased to hear your your process.
Speaker: Yeah. thank So, yeah, Pablo, I'm i'm i'm very enlightened and and excited about what your knowledge that you're sharing. So I just want to talk a bit more about your current projects and the work you're doing, like what's what's exciting you the most at the moment and and even in that, what is challenging you the most at at the moment.
Speaker: Super good question. a
Speaker: Today, what what is challenging me most?
Speaker: Good question. m What I'm most excited about, let's start there. i I'm very excited about our projects in Bhutan, Portugal. I'm excited about them all because they're very special clients. I really felt that all of them are super caring people and These are incredible locations. Like in Bhutan, we are in the national park working with the Gross National Happiness Center and the Princess of Bhutan.
Speaker: and In Peniche, it's a beautiful family. They're creating ah a learning center and a silent retreat. and So it's a project with, yeah, a lot of hard people that are really in a stage where they want to contribute and they want to take things slow. Yeah.
Speaker: the The challenge that I'm i'm a in is, of course, they're all different cultures. It means that and I have had to travel a lot. I have taken 30 planes in the last with five months, which has been for my body quite a bit.
Speaker: m And at the same time, the exposure to all of these different cultures is something I get super... With all of these trips, I've been living on these lands, walking on these lands with the different teams that are supporting within the studio to to lead them.
Speaker: and And now we are in that period of translation and finding the vocabularies for six different countries.
Speaker: it's it's a big, yeah, it's just a big challenge, which i love. So we're every day there with a lot of, but it's a challenge. And yeah,
Speaker: yeah and I think to to maintain the This is not a challenge, but I think my my big work is to be a person that can promote that when the team feels a lock on where we're in that iteration process that we were speaking before, and is to unlock and and communicate in a way that we can and continue tapping to the knowledge that we have already connected to through our research and our investigation.
Speaker: And at the same time, allowing everybody, creating a safe space for everybody to to really bring all the possible ideas because Most of the things we're doing, especially I would say in a lot of the country have not been done before in Bhutan. We're doing architecture that has never been created in Bhutan. Very inspired on the local culture, but we're trying to really honor. So sorry, it's been done, but long, long ago. we're trying to bring that back.
Speaker: And so, so it does require a full immersion and study and it feels both. Yeah. There is a lot of emotions that come through the process of, of, of creating anything, a big responsibility.
Speaker: Also, sometimes there is a yeah, so many emotions come really, I don't know how to explain it, but, but the challenge is to maintain center and to maintain the balance so that we can, uh,
Speaker: Yeah, just leave this very honestly and very real, you know. and no and And because there is so much a commitment involved, sometimes...
Speaker: actually physically you can lose your sense of self but at some point, like getting more tired or burnout is always something that we need to watch. And that's why actually I stop always working at five and I'm very conscious of it because if not, I cannot give the full intensity that I give to all the days that were at the office. But yeah, I guess normal challenges.
Speaker: Yeah, no, that's super interesting to hear that ah you have that too. Like I have to almost drag myself out of the office because I i love doing it, but I know it I've gone through cycles of of burning myself through.
Speaker: Like if if nobody would stop me, I could work till five in the morning, but then the next my next days I can't function well or or you're not aligned, not connected. So finding that balance is is important, especially with all the traveling too.
Speaker: And I also feel you like, ah you get i get about I get energized, maybe not physically, but in another plane that that when you have those travels, you meet new people, you see places, you like,
Speaker: it's It's like food for the soul, something. um But then you have to watch, or I have to also watch out for the for the body to take care of it. so yeah i have a what What is your routine usually for for maintaining the the physical health? Because that's if you don't if you miss your physical health, all the other parts that are becoming very very difficult so you want to share your routine of of maintaining the body I love it yes so I have a routine where every day I do first meditation I have a group so we call each other to be accountable because if not for me would be challenging we call each other we're very ugly good friends and we meditate together wow a then i always do 20 minutes of movement in the morning and
Speaker: any type of movement depends on what I'm feeling during the morning. I'm very relaxed. and And every afternoon after work, actually I'm coming from it. and We, I do exercise. I go either swimming or to the gym.
Speaker: and And then nine to five, I tend to be very, very, very focused. And you will find me most days, 95% of the days in the studio, uh,
Speaker: And even though very focused, my studio, if you ever come, you're super invited. The people that I work with are incredible humans that I admire and that are my friends also. We have created a culture that are very much like a family and in which, yeah, for me, it's more than architecture. So it's its it's like I want to enjoy the process. It's my life. is Yeah, it's the life. It's not like work, not work. It's all part of something.
Speaker: Yeah. part of something. so So I think that's very important for my physical health that I am i think I'm smiling or having fun most of the day. I would say all day when we're laughing, even when we're creating and we do something wrong or or we're making jokes. And it's people that I admire. Even there, a lot of them are younger than me. Our team is super young. But ah they are fully committed in all possible ways. they They love it as much as I do. And I'm i'm super honored to work with them.
Speaker: And then at night, going to sleep early. Normally at nine, I'm already in my reading something and slowly transitioning into into bed. So yeah, nothing out of the world but calm.
Speaker: I love that. Yeah, that's very inspiring. And I also love, because that's something you you said at the beginning, and which you use you do very well and intentional, is that you create the space. like it's It's not a mistake or a coincidence that you've created this work environment where you love your team, they're like friends, you're they're doing such a great job because you you're you werere able to create that space and hold that space even, which is also...
Speaker: a challenge but you're doing it as again you're doing it gracefully and and that that you can tell and that attracts the clients I believe that that's people can it's like something you cannot see but they sense it and like oh I want to be part of that um that thing so that's super inspiring to see how you've how you've created that and very yeah ah very much an inspiration to me And so, yeah, Pablo, we're nearing the end of the interview.
Speaker: Still, I would like to ask you two questions. I'll start with the first one. Like people that are listening to this interview that maybe they are not in full alignment with their life or they're struggling or they're they're at the beginning of of taking a new path and in getting into their full alignment.
Speaker: What is your message to them? And yeah, how can you I'll keep it there. What's your message to them? I love it I feel the, I mean i love this question. is First for me is to accept and be grateful for where we are.
Speaker: There is many things in my life that I want to grow on and be better on and align myself more. a But there are many areas where I have already done a lot of effort and also life is full of movement, full of different, everybody has their own challenges.
Speaker: but to be grateful to say, okay, I want to be my best version every day and I'm going to try to get there and I'm going to accept because I'm a human where where I am. a And slowly, consciously to build capacity to be able to invite that best version that you want to be. And how you can do that By being aware of the people you surround yourself, of the words you speak to yourself, of the values by which you can measure the decisions you make. For me, it's very important. i I know my values and and like honesty or care.
Speaker: and and excellence and the finding. They can change. Nothing is rigid. Things can change, but at least... and and yeah um From there, trying to... Also the courage to to follow what you think is best for yourself and the patience because it takes time um like very much like going to the gym you just need to find the consistency and at some point the results become apparent uh so yeah but i think uh
Speaker: I feel it's very important that there is a calling in your heart to allow yourself the space to investigate that through lived experience. And you might learn that it was not really what you wanted at the end, or it might be coming, yeah, the best decisions that you ever made, because I really believe the world will expand to...
Speaker: to to whatever we decide to do. If not necessarily in the way we imagine, but it will take us to places and that are very much what we were trying to invite, even in a deeper level into our own lives.
Speaker: Wow, that's very interesting. And I think um I wrote down what what the main three things are. So first, starting with acceptance, accepting where you are, like you're alive, you're breathing.
Speaker: the sun is shining or maybe it's raining and it's good for the plants. So accepting what is today is is amazing because that gets you very fast into gratitude and that's that's a practice too.
Speaker: um And then second is the environment you surround yourself in. That's like the space you create. You you create your own space and your environment, who do you spend time with, like all these aspects, how you what do you eat, what do you exercise?
Speaker: Your environment is so important. It's like plants, like you put them in the wrong environment, they will die. In the right environment, they will thrive. So that's everything. And then being very much aligned and clear on what your values are, what what you want to create, what you hold on to. Because that's that I believe that's going to bring you through days where you don't want to do things or it's challenging. or like If you just keep going back to your values, then you don't compromise. ah Yeah, so i'm I'm super excited about this interview.
Speaker: Pablo, thank you very much. Final question. how can people reach out to you? If some young architects who are still studying or says, well, I need to know more. I want to be part of the team. How can they reach out? If there's clients or potential clients listening, like I need to talk with Pablo, what's the best way to get a hold of you?
Speaker: um The best way is through email. So we have an email. It's connect at pavlolunastudio.com or also through our website or Instagram.
Speaker: and Our website is pavlolunastudio.com and our Instagram is at Pablo Luna Studio. and Normally, if you reach us from one of these three channels, we we for sure we will be able to connect and it will be a pleasure for sure. Every Friday in the studio, if somebody's in Bali, we have an open studio. We invite different speakers from all rounds of life, from historians to biologists. And we open the studio a little bit to the community. So So Fridays afternoons are a good time also to just show up and we can have more of an a light interaction and yeah have some fun.
Speaker: That's awesome. I'll pick you up on on that Friday afternoon. i think I'll come to Bali next year. so And then I'll be honored to to listen to what you're doing there.
Speaker: So yeah, Pablo, thank you very much. Have a great day. Thank you, Matthew, so much for for the invitation and yeah yeah super grateful for the questions and the time we share. And I'm so excited that our work seems to be very, our processes seems to be very much the same, one and the same. So yes we're happy to hear that because I really believe in it and I just want more people to to do it because yeah they are or ah really or really or to yeah may even improve it or or show us new ways of how this how we can look at this from a yeah with a deeper lens so thank you so much yeah my pleasure awesome
