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Actionable DEI: Beyond Buzzwords to Real Change
40 Plays7 months ago
In this enlightening episode of "Water Cooler Wisdom," we delve deep into the impactful realm of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives with experts Davida Sharpe and Eve Keller. Reflecting on pivotal moments like the Me Too movement and the murder of George Floyd, our guests explore how these events have reshaped organizational attitudes towards the treatment of women and people of color.
This conversation navigates through the evolution of DEI efforts, the added dimension of belonging, and the tangible ways in which organizations are adapting to create a more inclusive and equitable work environment. Join us as we dissect the successes, challenges, and the path forward in embedding DEI into the corporate ethos, ensuring every voice is heard, valued, and understood.
References from the episode:
Caste: The Origins of Our Discontent - Isabel Wilkerson
Power of Habits - Charles Duhigg
Atomic Habits - James Clear
The Compound Effect - Darren Hardy
Recommended
Transcript
Rising Demand for DEI Initiatives
00:00:05
Speaker
In 2020, we saw a big spike in the call for DEI initiatives for long overdue reasons. While some organizations were well-intentioned in their efforts, their approach to DEI initiatives haven't been successful and many have even seen adverse impacts on their workplace. Why is that happening?
Effective vs Ineffective DEI Approaches
00:00:24
Speaker
What are others getting right? On today's episode of Water Cooler Wisdom, we'll be joined by two experts in the L&D field to discuss what's working and not working
00:00:34
Speaker
with our approaches to PEI and how we might shift our mindset to tackle this important issue in the workplace.
Introduction by Hosts
00:00:44
Speaker
Welcome to another episode of Water Cooler Wisdom. I am Jake Blocker. And I am Rachel Grail. Rachel, great to be with you again for another episode.
00:00:56
Speaker
especially this topic. This is a pretty big topic that's important. Now I've been important for a long time and something you and I talked about is just how this is always an evolving topic. DI isn't something that it's, you do it right once and it never changes. It's just constantly evolving.
00:01:15
Speaker
Yes, it's constantly evolving our relationship to it, our awareness of it. And I'm so excited today to have this conversation because we've got two really great guests and there's only so much we can do on our own or in our own spaces. So I think including new people and new voices is, is so important. So I'm really looking forward to that. Same, same. So let's get into it. Sounds great.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome, DeVita and Eve. So I'm going to go over these great bios here and we'll get going.
Expert Insights by Davida SHARP
00:01:50
Speaker
So DeVita SHARP is a seasoned learning and development strategist with over 30 years of experience linking people development to business priorities across various industries.
00:02:01
Speaker
She notably advanced in leadership roles at Center for Creative Leadership due to her strategic acumen and management skills. She led and designed to work on developing and delivering affinity of offerings for women's and African-American leadership. The video's educational background includes broadcast journalism from the University of Georgia and counseling education from North Carolina A&C States University. Welcome to VEDA. Thank you.
Eve Keller's DEI Journey
00:02:29
Speaker
And we also have Eve Keller. Eve Keller is Director of Client Solutions and International Partnerships at Interaction Associates. She has a rich history in project management, including facilitating CMMI Level 2 certification efforts at High Point Global and supporting CMS federal contracts. She's an active volunteer and contributes to LGBTQIA Plus community through IndiePride and InterPride,
00:02:56
Speaker
She was recently elected to the United States Association of Pride's co-president, serving for a four-year term. She's also the new co-chair, the Leadership Development Committee with InterPride. Eva's also a new board member with a local ATD chapter and ATD Central Indiana chapter. She's passionate about teen coping and peer support skills lacking in our education system.
00:03:19
Speaker
as it relates directly to mental health and an increase in suicide amongst LGBTQIA plus youth. And Eve also has an educational background with a bachelor of science in education and a certificate in instructional design. Welcome Eve. Thank you.
00:03:38
Speaker
You've been busy so much, so much new for you. A lot, yeah. These are people who are out here walking their talk. I feel so lucky to have you both here today. Let's lead into our topic here. We know it's been an important shift in the last few years to see some attention brought to diversity, equity, and inclusion in the workplace. But as I'm sure you two know all too well,
00:04:03
Speaker
Even with good intentions, some initiatives really haven't brought the kind of meaningful change that they hope for or promise. We know this is a complex issue and it's one that's really close to my heart. So I'm so delighted to have you both here today to talk about it. We've had some great conversations already. So let's kick this off just by giving our listeners a little bit of context.
Impact of Social Movements on DEI
00:04:27
Speaker
Reflecting on past DEI initiatives,
00:04:30
Speaker
What are some pivotal moments that stand out, and how have they influenced changes in the workplace? I'll start, Rachel. The two things that stand out for me are the Me Too movement and the murder of George Floyd. I think those were pivotal moments that caused organizations
00:04:53
Speaker
around the world to actually think twice about the treatment of women, the treatment of people of color. And I can recall highly publicized stories of high-profile firings. As a result of the Me Too movement, women became more confident about speaking up about things that were happening in the workplace.
00:05:16
Speaker
I'm also aware of CEOs that sent out correspondence to their employees after the murder of George Floyd. So people were horrified by what happened, and it's almost as if it was like a smack of reality.
00:05:34
Speaker
for people who maybe their heads were in the sand or they, you know, they're busy with life. They didn't realize how things were going. But now, you know, they finally accept and solve for their own eyes some of the things that were happening in the country. And so I think workforces around the world began to reconsider, put committees together and think about what they're doing and what they could do differently.
00:06:04
Speaker
I think that's exactly right, Davida. I was going to name the same thing. I know George Floyd specifically affected my family. I have a biracial child who is non-binary, and they basically started really evaluating how they were seen in the world.
00:06:24
Speaker
made them question all of the systems that are broken for them and it really shone a light on a very dark area of our society that people I think were specifically avoiding and we weren't addressing appropriately. So I think that trickled
Belonging in DEI Initiatives
00:06:41
Speaker
down. It obviously shone a light on the police force in many different cities and I think that kind of stretched into the workplace and that came to some of the changes that we faced.
00:06:52
Speaker
I know there's a lot of acronyms that are out there when it comes to DEI. There's DEI, there's EDI, there's DEI and B. So the acronyms tend to evolve over time. But what does the practice truly entail today? And how does this addition of belonging, that B that we've added, how's that reshapes the organizational approaches? Yves, why don't you start this question first?
00:07:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think you have some information from CCL and how they deal with the acronym. And so I'll let you share that. But yes, I think it has evolved. Everyone's really attached to the DEI part of it and diversity, equity, inclusion.
00:07:36
Speaker
But once you open that can, of course, you get into whether you belong or not. I think as soon as we walk into a room, that's the first thing that we evaluate. And it's part of our fight or flight. It's part of our psychological safety. It's part of just reviewing. Is there anybody else in here that looks like me, talks like me, has the same background as me? And that's why we stretch into the belonging part of it.
00:08:00
Speaker
And I think some organizations really went towards the belonging by creating ERG groups, employee resource groups, business resource groups for different sets of folks that may have commonality in order to create that belonging.
00:08:17
Speaker
But I also think that a little bit had to do with the deconstructing of DEI that's happening now because some folks resisted that belonging and they didn't really fit in any one of those ERG-BRG groups and they did not feel like they belonged anymore.
00:08:33
Speaker
So I think it's a big piece of what's going on with this anti-woke scenario and narrative that's happening. But DEI, of course, tons of different acronyms. But I think we get into the intersectionality of all of us. We understand.
00:08:49
Speaker
There's really no American, we are all pieces and parts of other cultures. And I think that goes back to the last time Davida and I shared together, really kind of doing a pseudo date with the person you're about to collaborate with and dig in underneath their own narratives, their own biases, and get to know each other in a better way so that you can create individual relationships and belonging in a more authentic way.
00:09:18
Speaker
What stands out for me when I was thinking
US Diversity: Melting Pot or Salad Bowl?
00:09:22
Speaker
about this whole issue is a couple of things. One, this whole notion about whether the US in particular is a melting pot or is it a salad dish?
00:09:36
Speaker
So if it's a melting pot, I think there are people who subscribe to the melting pot scenario because we're all in there together. We're all blending and there's nothing particularly distinct.
00:09:50
Speaker
And then, you know, I've been drawn towards the salad bowl because you can see the different colors and textures and potentially even smell the different aromas. They're distinct, but yet they're together.
00:10:09
Speaker
And I think that historically, people who were optimistic about us coming together and about Martin Luther King's hope and vision and dream that all of our children, regardless of their race or gender, would be able to work together. I think people thought we need a soup bowl. We just need to all come together. I think the
00:10:34
Speaker
DEI and now belonging movement may speak more to the salad bowl. I think it's okay to be different. I think that's where we have to get to the heart of this question is, isn't it okay to be different?
00:10:51
Speaker
Isn't it boring for everybody to be the same? Aren't you curious about people who are different from you? Isn't there more to learn from someone who's had a different experience? And when you get to this concept of belonging, which I think is getting closer to hitting the nail on the head, it's this whole, if I use another metaphor, it's this whole piece about
00:11:19
Speaker
Everyone wants to be seen, heard, and understood. I've pulled out my old friend Maslow's hierarchy as a person with a counseling background. We need belonging in order to begin to fully self-actualize.
00:11:36
Speaker
And I think that we don't understand that every human being just wants to be accepted for who they are and bring their full selves to whatever situation they're in. They don't want to hide. They don't want to have to pretend. They don't want to have to do something differently.
Leadership's Role in DEI Success
00:11:53
Speaker
And I actually think
00:11:54
Speaker
the ERG groups and other these other groups sometimes I think the reason some of them backfire too is because you don't necessarily want to be in a group with just people just like you when are we going to bring people who are different together and let them you know
00:12:11
Speaker
fight it out. And I don't mean that physically. I think you guys know that. But I'm looking forward to the day when people have more courage in organizations, whether they're the police departments or in the federal government or wherever they may be. Let's bring different people together and have the hard
00:12:30
Speaker
conversations because I think we'll find out in the end that as human beings, the thing that we're most worried about is our significance and whether or not we're insignificant. And I think that's the heart of the problem.
00:12:47
Speaker
I think that's so beautifully articulated because when we do think about that pyramid, that self actualization is so vital and that core need to be seen, to be significant, to be accepted is so potent and we will do better. We will have so much more available as a society when everyone has that opportunity.
00:13:13
Speaker
However, unfortunately, as we saw with some of those pivotal moments you were talking about, it goes right down to the bottom of the pyramid where people have not been safe to be seen. And I think in some ways, there is still, when we do DEI surveys, even with all of the efforts as of late, they're still showing a growing sense of disconnection.
00:13:39
Speaker
And you've already both given some great ideas about what some individuals can do. What do you think organizations can do? What measures could they take to promote this idea of genuine inclusion and sort of organizational civil behavior? Another acronym, OCD, OCB, excuse me.
00:14:02
Speaker
That's such a great question, Rachel. I think some organizations have gotten it right, and Davida and I were talking about this last week, is really connecting this to the strategic initiatives of the organization, really having leadership that understands that diversity is profitable. I went to a presentation recently that said pride is profitable, or they had tons of data points around how diverse teams make a company better.
00:14:30
Speaker
And I think companies leaning into that even more, not from a numbers standpoint, not from a performative standpoint, but leaning into those differences and maybe even highlighting them or using mentorship programs like KPMG, one of our clients, really taking people that are completely opposite and putting them together so that they can stay open and curious with each other. I think folks, I had a landlord once that only lived in like 100 miles from Mississippi.
00:15:00
Speaker
And that was his experience, right? And I fully believe Tabula Rasa with John Locke that we are a product of our experiences. So when you travel and experience other cultures, you're learning what's different about the world and questioning some beliefs you may have. So I think it's really important for organizations to go down that route
00:15:21
Speaker
of learning and unlearning with each other and making it okay to disagree. We have another client that that's one of their values is disagreement is okay. That's where the collaboration happens. That's where we get a little bit uncomfortable because we're learning something new. And I think that's where people get stuck is they stay in their comfort zone. They stay around people that they look like and act like and learn like and read the same news stories. And that's where we're missing some of this.
00:15:52
Speaker
While I believe in the democratization of movements in organizations, that is people from the so-called bottom-up, you know, influence the organization, I think this is a case where we have to have good modeling and leadership from top leadership on this issue. If you have an all-male, all-white executive body and team, you're not exactly
00:16:18
Speaker
walking the talk. So I think it starts at the top, what you look like, what you sound like. And it can't be on a checklist. You can't be doing it because you want it to look good. I mean, an organization really has to believe in the idea, backed by research and science, that diverse teams produce the best results.
00:16:46
Speaker
the most diverse organizations have the greatest success. Not for diversity's sake. It is a known fact that when people with different experiences come together, be they experiences based on race or gender identity or gender or religion or where you grew up or what you majored in, you're going to get the best results.
00:17:09
Speaker
because we may want to believe we can see the whole world, but the truth is we can only
00:17:17
Speaker
we can only represent that very narrow slice of the world we experience. The more diversity you get into the room, the more people available to look at the problem or the decision or to reframe the challenge. When you're fighting against this thing to be inclusive and diverse and equitable, you're really hurting yourself.
00:17:46
Speaker
Because now you are cutting yourself off from other opportunities, other possibilities. And so I just think we just need
Strategic DEI Initiatives
00:17:56
Speaker
two things. I'll underscore what Eve started off with. It starts with top leadership modeling the way. And they have to believe, they have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that
00:18:09
Speaker
DE and I and B and A and some of the other letters that we're starting to add because we haven't talked about accessibility, which is a big thing that Eve's concerned about. I'm concerned about it, but I know Eve has done some advocacy in this area that
00:18:26
Speaker
Organizations, especially leaders, have to realize the more diverse they are, the more successful they're likely to be. Is there a guarantee? No. But there's a likelihood that they'll be more successful. Yeah, I think a lot of it's really how it's approached. If you approach of, all right, I got to check this box because legal or HR, let me check this box quickly, then yeah, you're probably not going to get the results you're wanting.
00:18:55
Speaker
approaching this from a, I want more ideas, I want more thoughts, opinions, I want that, then I think you'll have a little more success. And to that, to that point, if you touch on some of the success stories out there, I'd love to know a little bit more, and I'm sure listeners would like to do the same thing, of what are the instances where DI efforts have led to substantial change within the organization?
00:19:21
Speaker
That's a really good point. I think there were a few companies that have been highlighted in several articles, but I always go back to KPMG and this reverse mentoring idea. It's really a strategy that can help bridge the gap and they've been running an internal reverse mentoring scheme since 2018.
00:19:40
Speaker
So basically senior leaders are paired with junior employees of a different gender, race, or sexuality. Leaders get to learn how they can be more inclusive. And I think the whole company watches that happen. And I think that's the example that Davida's talking about. And that truly brings about culture change. I think once folks at a junior level see senior leaders slipping up or missing the mark somewhere,
00:20:04
Speaker
it really affects them and their engagement and their kind of buy-in with the organizational values. So reverse mentorship is a win-win for both parties. Studies show that the knowledge gained during this is really, really powerful, and it's not always the case in a traditional mentoring arrangement. A couple of organizations come to mind, but I'm going to mention one that'll probably surprise our listeners.
00:20:33
Speaker
I'm going to talk about the US Army. I think, much to my surprise, the US Army has a long way to go.
00:20:45
Speaker
I think when I look at the US Army visually, they appear to be making huge strides. And the reason I mention the US Army is because it's the last place sometimes we expect those things to happen. Don't get me wrong, our military have some major issues related to women.
00:21:06
Speaker
and relate it to people of color. But the thing I'm going to speak to in terms of DEI initiatives are top leadership. I'm going to go back to that visual look of what your leadership looks like. Because whether we like it or not, that's what people are going to look at. So when you look at how diverse the top leadership members are of some of our military institutions and even our government,
00:21:35
Speaker
I think it gives you a little hope. I guess I see more of that than sometimes I see in some organizations. There's still a huge shortfall of women and people of color in many organizations. You see a lot of it in the big Fortune 500 or the Fortune 100 in particular. You see some gains being made there. You know, organizations that come to mind to me are, you know, the targets.
00:22:05
Speaker
you know, which have some significant efforts underway with equity and inclusion. But where we really need to see it, I think, too, are with the smaller midsize companies, because I'm not picking up that kind of diversity
00:22:24
Speaker
that you would expect for where some of these companies are located. I don't necessarily see it in those mid-sized companies. But I think the Fortune 100s are doing better than I expected. Many of them have a long way to go. The US military has a long way to go. The US government has a long way to go. But they've come farther than I expected. So I think I want to give kudos to the US military for trying.
00:22:53
Speaker
Because I think we still have companies that are not even trying. And I think those things that we see the most often are the things where we need to see the furthest advancement. I've seen large cities hire more women and people of color for their police
00:23:13
Speaker
uh, chief positions. I see that happening in many large cities. Um, so I see some things happening and, and they are using both the mentorship efforts and other things in order to make that happen. But then there's, there's some backfiring underway. And I think we're going to get to the, some of that and some of our later discussions where people feel excluded and certainly a recent affirmative action rulings have not made things easy.
00:23:43
Speaker
on DEI and B. And I'll just add in a few more companies that seem to be doing it right, specifically as it relates to gender equality and women in the workplace. I know several of our clients have brought this up to us really trying to have more women in executive positions and management positions.
00:24:02
Speaker
So, there's still obviously a numbers game here with some of these goals, but Johnson & Johnson looking to have 50% women in management globally by 2025. MasterCard also going towards that direction with gender diverse groups as well as coverage for, you know, sex reassignment surgery and surrogacy assistance. Accenture really trying to have gender balanced workforce. 47% of the company currently is now female.
00:24:31
Speaker
Kaiser Permanente, I don't know if you know how Kaiser's been amazing in our history as far as gender diversity, even when they built boats back in World War II, and equity and inclusion and diversity have always been linked to Kaiser Permanente. And so 67% of their labor force are members of racial, ethnic, and cultural minorities, and 72% of them are women.
00:24:57
Speaker
I think it's really, it's encouraging to hear some of these companies that are doing it right, that are setting exciting goals and really taking steps to
DEI Challenges and Individual Engagement
00:25:08
Speaker
go towards them. And if you'll allow me sort of an off script question. I'm thinking about some of the challenges or some of the obstacles, both on an organizational level and also on a personal level, because we know that both organizations need to take responsibility.
00:25:27
Speaker
for taking this seriously and really putting some initiatives in place. And also individuals need to be responsible for our own engagement with our own discomfort and our own willingness to grow and have conversations. So would you be willing to talk a little bit about what we can do individually as well as maybe what organizations can do who might be struggling, maybe some of those mid-sized companies who don't really know how to get started
00:25:59
Speaker
Such a great question. Davida, do you want to start on this so you want to think about it a sec? I want to think about it. Okay. It is tough because I think when you bring up the word diversity, people immediately go to visible diversity, right? Even when you see it on a commercial and they highlight the word diversity, they show a person of color.
00:26:19
Speaker
And I think we're missing a little bit of the invisible diversity that we have amongst each other. I know my co-president at the United States Association of Prides has to literally say that he identifies as a Mexican-American because everybody sees him as a white guy.
00:26:36
Speaker
So, you know, it's part of our board to be more diverse, but to come to a point where you have to literally self-identify as part of a diverse community, it's really one of those areas where I think people are afraid to say the wrong thing, to do the wrong thing, to maybe speak up for their own ideals in the workplace.
00:27:02
Speaker
So I don't know if there's an easy answer to that, Rachel. I think we're still, like Davita said, looking to meet our own needs, to make sure that I have a voice, to make sure that I'm seen and heard for the value that I add to the company. And so as an individual, I'm constantly fighting for that and have been for several different organizations to make sure that as a woman, I'm heard, but as a part of the queer community, I'm heard and seen and pushing for
00:27:31
Speaker
more diversity training for most of these organizations so that we can learn and unlearn our own biases and get out of our own way and open up a little part of this difficult conversation with each other. Yeah. And I love this kind of idea of there's value in a variety of perspectives, even beyond the ones that we can readily see visibly.
00:27:55
Speaker
I think that what organizations can do is assume they have a problem and study it.
00:28:04
Speaker
I think that's why I mentioned the U.S. Army, because I'm aware of them forming task forces because they were concerned about the lack of diversity in some spots. And I think if you study your own organization and ask yourself questions, challenge your decisions. Why did we do that? Why didn't we consider that? I think it begins with introspection.
00:28:30
Speaker
both for the individual as well as for the organization you you've got to figure out what's going on inside and ask yourself if you have a culture of bias in your organization so i think that's the first step is to admit
00:28:46
Speaker
that everything may not be okay. If you have your head in the sand and you want to say, well, I'm a good person and everything's okay, that's great. Somebody once said the road to hell was paved with good intentions. I think it falls in that
00:29:02
Speaker
Same category, don't make assumptions about your goodness and about whether that's translating over into your culture. I think organizations get the culture they build or the one they neglect. So they've got to decide that that's the first thing. Because for me, I know I'm looking at it through an organizational development lens and a leadership development lens. I think that this whole issue is a culture issue. So I think you have to treat it as such. How are you going to rebuild and reframe the culture?
00:29:31
Speaker
that's open to diverse perspectives, diverse people, diverse experiences. That's one. I think the second part is training and development. I don't think you can wave a magic wand and have people just to, you know, all of a sudden they're more open. I do a lot of work with a company that specializes in trust building.
Building Trust and Addressing Microaggressions
00:29:56
Speaker
And one thing that Dennis and Michelle Reina have taught me is that it's not the big things that get people into trouble with trust building. It's the subtle stuff. And I'm going to apply that to this whole space.
00:30:15
Speaker
Because I think we think that because I don't use horrible words about people, or because I have diverse friends, or I live near diverse people, or I have progressive ideas, that somehow I'm immune.
00:30:35
Speaker
But that's not true. Sometimes we do and say the smallest things that can erode trust between us and another person. So you add diversity.
00:30:47
Speaker
equity, inclusion, and belonging to that, you're opening up a whole new space of trust breaking issues. So I think organizations just really need to do OD work and training and development work because I think we have to be trained
00:31:06
Speaker
to do better. Now, you notice young children in schools, they seem to do just fine. How many of us have seen those videos streaming on social media about children who are different, who don't seem to notice it and don't care? So as I love Eve's terminology, what we learn and unlearn, so eventually young people grow up and learn to hate
00:31:33
Speaker
So we gotta unlearn it. So I think it's training and development. That's what organizations can do. If they want to be different, they have to commit to a culture of difference and they have to commit to training for that.
00:31:47
Speaker
And I'll add on to that, Davida.
Understanding Employee Needs Through Stay Interviews
00:31:49
Speaker
I think the training, what we do when we're looking for training is we do a survey. We do a gap analysis. What's missing? What skills and behaviors do we need to adapt? The big thing that I'm hearing now from clients is stay interviews. Have you heard this? Stay surveys, where they're literally going around and asking their employees, what would make you stay here? What would make you leave here?
00:32:12
Speaker
And I think that's what we need more of. We need more open, honest conversations where obviously you feel psychologically safe to share with your manager what's going on for you. I think you're exactly right to point out the microaggressions. I attended a seminar last year where a lady said microaggressions aren't micro.
00:32:32
Speaker
So no such thing because those things add up and they do erode the trust that you have. And I think those microaggressions, when they're not addressed appropriately through training and development and conflict resolution, they add up and you don't realize how much they've added up until it affects your company culture or your engagement with the employees. So I think these stay surveys may be a really, really good place to continue these interviews with folks and learn.
00:32:59
Speaker
about each other and learn what your employees need from you and what they value from the organization. I like that a lot because I think it's for the organization, it shows like, hey, I actually care about you. Sometimes it may just be lip service, but some may truly care. They're diligently reading over these surveys, understanding how do I keep my talent? I know I would find that useful.
00:33:22
Speaker
Jake, you used a good word there, lip service. This space cannot survive on lip service because people can point it. They know when you're authentic and authentic. And to your generation and those coming up, that authenticity is so important. And that's what it requires in order for success to occur.
Pandemic-Induced Introspection
00:33:46
Speaker
Well, and I think during the COVID years, Davida, we actually all went inside. We had less distractions. We were able to take a moment and reflect on what really mattered to us, right? Time with our families, our health, right? We couldn't find a bike anywhere because we wanted to ride a bike.
00:34:04
Speaker
So gym equipment was sold out. We really went and figured out what was really important to us. And so now I think that energy is extending to our workplaces and to our relationships. A lot of divorces during COVID, right? And so in these workforces, we're finding that folks are like, do my values align with this organization's values? Do they do what I think is important? And maybe I should go to another place that does value that.
00:34:36
Speaker
Yeah, that's great. I've loved this conversation, and I think we're going to start bringing it to a close now.
Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Remarks
00:34:43
Speaker
I know we have a few rapid fire questions that Rachel's going to ask you, so I will hand it off to her. Oh, right. Rapid fire questions. Let's see. I didn't write them down, so I'm going to see if I can remember them. I'll grab some too if you need to. Let's start with you, Davida. Coffee or tea in the morning? Tea.
00:35:06
Speaker
And you, Eve? I'm leaning more towards tea, but I still do coffee right now. Yes, well, no judgment here. All are welcome. Early bird or night owl work style? Night owl. Early bird for me.
00:35:24
Speaker
Nice. It's a book that made a significant impact on you. We'll start with you, Eve. I did a deep dive for habits, specifically power of habits, atomic habits. I'm currently reading compounding effect, and it's very similar to compounding your habits and habit stacking, and that has been hugely successful for me. I was in a lap pool this morning at 7 a.m., so it's working. Wow, impressive.
00:35:54
Speaker
I brought my book with me cast by Isabel Wilkerson. There's currently a movie out called Origin. It's had a profound effect on me because this brilliant Pulitzer Prize winning journalist has studied both
00:36:12
Speaker
the African-American people of color experience in the United States, along with the experience of Jews in Nazi Germany, along with the caste system in India. And she found the common denominators between those two. And I find it to be a provocative book written by a very brilliant
00:36:37
Speaker
a woman, and I continue to be fascinated by her question of the origins of our discontents. What is it? So I just love her work. And for our listeners who are thinking, I need to go out and get those books, we're going to link them in the credits of this podcast so you can find them easily. Last but not least question, if you could have a water cooler chat with anyone, dead or alive,
00:37:06
Speaker
Who would it be and why? It's always easy for me to answer this question. I lost my father in 2009, so I use most of my quiet time still talking to him. That's a great one because I lost my dad a couple of years ago, but I'm going to go
00:37:29
Speaker
with Ava DuVernay, who's the producer-director of the movie Origin, because it's a brilliantly done movie, and it's really hit me so hard, and it ties to our topic today.
00:37:51
Speaker
And so I would love to just chat with her about the way she thinks and how she pulls things together because I think that's a genius and I am so curious about the way she pulls things together.
00:38:07
Speaker
I want to to our chat today just know about Ann Lister and 1860s modern lesbian gentleman Jack if you've watched the HBO show 25 volumes of journals educated beyond her time. I would love to chat with her.
00:38:29
Speaker
Well, I have loved chatting with all of you. I feel we are all constantly evolving in this space and continuing to grow and inquire and have more insights. And I hope to continue to hear your insights and continue this conversation and continue to do my growth. So thank you both so much for being here. Jake, it's always a pleasure to be with you as well. Yes, thank you both so much. This is great.
00:38:57
Speaker
Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you to our listeners. We will see you next time.
00:39:02
Speaker
Thanks for listening to Water Cooler Wisdom. This podcast is brought to you by Interaction Associates, a leading professional development and leadership training organization whose mission is to help people work better together. If you'd like to learn more, visit interactionassociates.com. If you have questions, comments, or are interested in collaborating with this podcast, you can email us at watercoolerwisdom at interactionassociates.com.