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Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling Book Club
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In this episode of the Book Club Podcast, host Carly, an Elder Millennial, is joined by guest Jenni to discuss Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling. The episode delves into personal anecdotes about discovering the series, revisiting the story, and its impact on their generation. They explore the book's plot, character relationships, societal themes, and the broader Harry Potter universe. The conversation also touches on the challenges and emotional aspects of revisiting beloved childhood books, the portrayal of female characters, and the movie adaptation's strengths and weaknesses. Tune in next month for a discussion on William Goldman’s The Princess Bride!
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00:00 The Goblet of Fire Chooses Harry
00:45 Welcome to the Book Club Podcast
01:02 Personal Harry Potter Journeys
03:50 Discussing the Goblet of Fire
05:12 Summary of the Goblet of Fire
12:14 Wizarding World and Muggle Relations
21:01 Rita Skeeter and Journalism
24:59 Impact of Cedric's Death
36:01 Revisiting Harry Potter
38:35 Harry Potter and the Cursed Child: Initial Impressions
38:59 Breaking Rules: A Millennial Perspective
39:24 Generational Differences and Rule-Breaking
47:22 The Importance of Genuine Connection
52:25 Female Characters in Harry Potter
58:32 The Hero's Journey and Millennial Reflections
01:03:01 Movie Adaptation: Hits and Misses
01:07:20 Final Thoughts and Next Book Discussion
Transcript
00:00:09
Speaker
Dumbledore suddenly stopped speaking and it was apparent to everybody what had distracted him. The fire in the goblet had just turned red again, sparks were flying out of it. A long flame shot suddenly into the air and born upon it was another piece of parchment.
00:00:25
Speaker
Automatically it seemed Dumbledore reached out a long hand and ceased the parchment. He held it out and stared at the name written upon it. There was a long pause during which Dumbledore stared at the slip in his hands and everyone in the room stared at Dumbledore and then Dumbledore cleared his throat.
00:00:42
Speaker
and read out. Harry Potter. Welcome to the Book Club Podcast. I'm Carly and I'm an elder millennial. And today my guest is Jenny returning for our second episode. Today we are discussing Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire by J.K. Rowling. Welcome, Jenny.
00:01:01
Speaker
Hi Carly, it's great to be here. I started reading the series in high school, the Harry Potter series in high school, a few years after the first book came out. After initially refusing to read Harry Potter, when I first picked up the first book, there were names like Dudley and it seemed so juvenile, I refused to read it. But then once my sister, who's four years younger,
00:01:26
Speaker
also refused to read it i was like oh well maybe i should look again and then i i read the first book in less than 24 hours and then i continued reading each book as they came out so i would have read the goblet of fire initially my senior year of high school and then continued to revisit the story on audiobook and long car rides and things like that from there yeah Yeah. So I think I remember my mom bought the first book for someone else, but that person already had the book. So it was just in her house. And so I picked it up and yeah, I thought it was pretty juvenile, but I liked, I liked reading.
00:02:07
Speaker
you know younger fantasy anyway, and so I went you know went through all four books because they were out at that time and That was the same year that the first movie came out. So I had a friend at my summer job who Loved Harry Potter and so we both came to college ah in Santa Fe and she invited me with her friends ah to go see the movie when it came out and I yeah I remember talking to you about it a lot throughout college in the years afterwards. I remember we took a road trip across Texas and we listened to, I think it was the fifth book on CD. And I remember seeing this movie, the Goblet Fire movie with another classmate of ours when it came out after we graduated college. It was just always around. And I remember being so excited when the books would come out and I would just read it as soon as I could. and
00:03:06
Speaker
It was interesting. I never got online. I'm sure there were plenty of online forums talking about at that time, but but there were plenty of people and just around who were reading it. And I remember hearing people talking about Harry Potter in the dining hall or something or you know what I mean? It's just such a big part of the millennial experience in high school and college. And I couldn't leave Harry Potter off of the season if I was talking about millennials and books that affected millennials because it was such a big part of us. I remember some news story saying that Harry Potter taught millennials to love to read, ah like how many people in our generation would not have become readers if it wasn't for Harry Potter. at You know, I don't know. I would have been a reader regardless, but you know. We'll talk about this book in particular, Goblet of Fire, but but we are going to spoil the whole series. I want to be able to talk freely
00:03:57
Speaker
about anything that happens in the series, books or movies, or even like, you know, rumors of like not not canon stuff that about like the wizarding world. Like anything is fair game in this conversation. And then just real quick before we start with a ah summary of this this one book, I just want to acknowledge that So many people have felt hurt and betrayed by comments that JK Rowling has made. And we're not going to talk about that in depth, but I did want to acknowledge that people have this deep betrayal for this author. And I want to repeat something that another friend of mine said, that the actions of the author don't have to impact
00:04:48
Speaker
your experience, your history, the joy that you found in the books, in the in the works that that author has created. And so that's part of this discussion too is is reconnecting with that joy that we felt when we first read these books.
00:05:08
Speaker
and revisiting some of how that has impacted us as we have grown up. This Harry Potter book begins like all the other Harry Potter books with Harry being at the Dursley House for the summer. We spend enough time there to see that Harry has learned how to manipulate his uncle. The Weasley's quickly come to take him to the Quidditch World Cup at a campground hidden by the Ministry of Magic. All of the Weasley children, plus Harry and Hermione, attend the World Cup They watch Victor Crumb, the Bulgarian seeker, catch the snitch, although the Ireland team wins. And that night, they are woken up by sounds of terror.
00:05:45
Speaker
They see a group of wizards wearing masks tormenting the Muggle family that manage the campground. Mr. Weasley tells the children to hide in the woods while he helps the Ministry deal with the Death Eaters, who are the people in masks. Harry, Ron, and Hermione see someone summon the dark mark using Harry's stolen wand, and they quickly return to the Weasleys' home.
00:06:06
Speaker
Their first night back at Hogwarts, they meet the new Dark Arts teacher, Mad-Eye Moody, a retired Auror, aka Dark Wizard Catcher, aka Wizard Law Enforcement. He has a magic blue eye that spins around independent of his real eye, and he also has a wooden leg.
00:06:24
Speaker
Dumbledore announces that the Tri-Wizard Tournament will be hosted at Hogwarts that year, and they will have guests from two other wizarding schools, Durmstrang with Headmaster Karkroff, and Bobaton with Headmaster Madame Maxine. The champions from each school are chosen by a magical object, the Goblet of Fire. Students write their name on a piece of parchment and put it in the Goblet of Fire, which creates the binding magical contrast.
00:06:52
Speaker
Students under the age of 17 aren't allowed to participate. The goblins spit out the names of Flor de la Cour from Boca Time, Victor Crum from Germany, and Cedric Diggory from Hogwarts. Then the goblins spit out a piece of parchment with Harry Potter's name. After a lot of discussion and some concern that someone wants to harm Harry by entering into this dangerous contest, it determines that he will be allowed to compete despite being too young.
00:07:21
Speaker
Ron gives Harry the silent treatment because he believes that Harry cheated to enter the contest. Most of the school agrees with Ron. Hagrid shows Harry the four dragons that the champions will face at the also see the dragons, so Harry guesses that the only champion who doesn't know about them is Cedric. He catches Cedric between classes to let him know about the dragons. Rudy witnesses this and gives Harry some advice on how to defeat the dragon.
00:07:51
Speaker
Harry gets Hermione to help him master summoning spells so that he can get his groom to steal the golden egg from the dragon. After seeing how dangerous the task was, Ron stops giving Harry the silent treatment and they become friends again.
00:08:07
Speaker
Over the Christmas break, there's the Tri-Wizard Tournament Yule Ball, and Harry and Ron find themselves scrambling to find partners. Ron asks Hermione to go with him and says Ginny can go with Harry, but both Hermione and Ginny have been asked to go by other people, so Ron and Harry go with Padma and Parvati Patil. At the dance, they discover that Hermione is Victor Crumb's partner, and Ron is extremely rude about it.
00:08:32
Speaker
Cedric repays the favor to Harry by giving him a hint on how to interpret the clue for the second task, which will require the champions to retrieve something that was stolen from them at the bottom of the lake from the Murr people. Harry sneaks out in the middle of the night to take a bath in the prefix bathroom where he can listen to the clue underwater. On his way back to his dorm, he sees Barty Crouch on the Marauder's map in Snape's office and goes to investigate.
00:08:59
Speaker
He gets stuck on a trick step and attracts the attention of Snape, Filch, and Moody. Again, Moody does not punish Harry for breaking the rules, but covers for him with Snape. He asks to borrow the Marauder's Map.
00:09:11
Speaker
The champions visit the Quidditch Field where they find a hedge maze growing. They are told that the first champion to grab the Triwizard Cup at the center of the maze will win the tournament. Afterward, Harry and Victor talk at the edge of the forest where Barty Crouch emerges, clearly not in his right mind. Harry runs to get Dumbledore, but by the time they return, they find Crumb, Stunned, and Crouch gone.
00:09:35
Speaker
The maids, during the final task, Harry finds Crumb attacking Cedric. He helps Cedric, then Cedric helps him fight a giant spider. They agree to take the goblet together to tie for champions. As they touch the cup, they realize the support key. They find themselves in a graveyard that Harry recognizes from his dream. Wormtail kills Cedric immediately. He performs a spell using his own hand and Harry's blood to bring Voldemort back to full power.
00:10:05
Speaker
Voldemort summons his remaining Death Eaters and duels with Harry. Harry and Voldemort's wand flock together in a magical binding. Previous spells are extracted from Voldemort's wand. Harry sees the spirit of Cedric emerge from the wand.
00:10:21
Speaker
ahric Harry to take his body back to his parents. Then the spirits of Harry's parents come out of Voldemort's barn. They tell him that when he breaks the connection, they will distract Voldemort and he must run to the cup so that it can take him back to Hogwarts. He manages to reach Cedric's body and uses the summoning spell to bring the cup to him. It takes him back outside the maze where the crowd was watching the final task of the tournament. In the confusion,
00:10:50
Speaker
He finds himself being led away by Moody. It's revealed that Barty Crouch Jr. was using Polyjuice Potion to impersonate Moody the entire school year. He helped Harry win so that Harry would be delivered to Voldemort. Dumbledore finds them along with Snape and McGonagall. He finds the real Moody trapped in a trunk. Snape brings Vereeta Serum to get Barty Crouch Jr. to explain how his father helped him escape from Azkaban to keep him prisoner at home for many years.
00:11:20
Speaker
He escapes his father's imprisonment with the help of Voldemort and Wormtail. After that, Dumbledore takes Harry to his office where he tells Dumbledore and c Sirius everything that happened in the graveyard. Then Dumbledore takes him to the hospital wing where Mrs. Weasley, Ron, and Hermione are waiting. They are disturbed by the minister, Cornelius Fudge, who had a dementor suck the soul out of Barty Crouch, Jr.
00:11:43
Speaker
Dumbledore tells Fudge that Voldemort is back, but Fudge refuses to believe him. After Fudge leaves, Dumbledore asks Mrs. Weasley Snape and Sirius if they will work with him to fight Voldemort and the Death Eaters. At the feast ending the school year, Dumbledore gives a eulogy for Cedric Diggory and tells the students that he was murdered by Voldemort. Harry returns to the Dursley House with a promise from Mrs. Weasley that he will be able to join them later in the summer. So, Jenny,
00:12:11
Speaker
you have an opening question for us. ah Yeah. So why don't the wizards know how to dress like Muggles? Or the way this question first came to me is what do wizards wear under their robes? We encounter a lot of really strange clothing choices in this novel. Everything from like Rita Skeeter's magenta robes with her crocodile handbag, or wizards at the Quidditch World Cup wearing a poncho with a kilt, or even Ron's fancy dress robes for the yule ball. So if wizards are all around us, how do they not know how to dress like mugs?
00:12:53
Speaker
Yes, i I like this question. I mean, there's so much to this book is so rich. There's so much that I could include in a summary. And so all of these little details that just fill out the world, they just make the book so enjoyable. So we start out the at the Quidditch World Cup and First of all, compared to the first three books, this fourth book is so much bigger just physically than the first three books. And we get that that glimpse into the wizarding world outside of Hogwarts. And I remember just being super excited to learn about that, like what's happening outside of Hogwarts. Who are all these people? And I loved learning about the broader world.
00:13:30
Speaker
But yeah, the wizards are so disconnected from the muggles, even though I think it's mentioned that there's one little town. Oh, it's it's the town outside of the school is one of the few hogs me. Yes. It's one of the few completely wizarding towns. Right. Like other types of creatures will go visit there because it's one of the few places where they can go and be seen.
00:13:57
Speaker
And so we know that wizards are living next door to muggles all the time and yet they still don't know how to put on a pair of jeans. And I want to make this connection between, you know, how separated the muggles are from the wizards and also how now you with social media and the you know the algorithm, the mysterious algorithms that show you things that that you want to know already, there's a siloing of people it you know because of the way media works now. And you can have people who live next door to each other, who shop at the same store and see each other every day. And yet they have completely different views of what's going on in the world because they get their
00:14:40
Speaker
their information from different sources. And I wonder if there's a parallel there um that it is actually possible but to be physically in the same place with people and and also alienated from them. I mean, and I've always felt that you you see what you value and Right now, I'm thinking even at the very end of the novel, Dumbledore is talking to Harry about the mysterious deaths, and Dumbledore reads the muggle news, and he found out about the death of the... ah Frank, Frank Bryce. Yeah, Frank, what role does he serve? I keep wanting to say Gamekeeper, that's not it, but Gardner, yes, he's a gardener. Dumbledore is paying attention to those muggle deaths, but...
00:15:30
Speaker
When he brings that to the attention of other wizards, they are very dismissive. I think that the wizards are rather self-centered. I mean, the extreme is the Death Eaters, but to a lesser extent, most wizards aren't concerned about them at all. In fact, the only real muggle lover we hear about is Mr. Weasley, and he's considered a complete eccentric.
00:15:59
Speaker
is I mean, I know that Draco likes to tease Ron about that, but Draco's father is a death eater. you know like there's And it seems like there's a generational difference. like The younger people know how to dress like muggles. It's their parents and older who have a real struggle with it. And I wonder how much the war with Voldemort, you know the previous war with Voldemort,
00:16:29
Speaker
and talking about pure blood, did that wake people up like Dumbledore? and It's been such so long since I've read the other books that I don't remember exactly. Like when did Dumbledore start reading the Muggle paper? Was it after Voldemort rose to power the first time because he's starting to think about you know this whole like pure blood and the separation that Voldemort advocates, did Dumbledore react to that by being like, no, wait, actually, we should be more concerned about the rights of other creatures and muggles? Possibly. I also just feel like Dumbledore is just a character that does all things.
00:17:09
Speaker
you know I feel like she really goes the author really goes out of the way out of her way to say that Dumbledore, while he has his short haul, is capable and interested in everything.
00:17:22
Speaker
yeah oh But you're making me think of one of the later books that actually start with a minister of magic in a Muggle government office. and He goes to see the prime minister to say, hey, we have a problem. But the the division is still very clear between the two. I mean, you can't do magic in front of Muggle. In some of the other movies, there's this whole branch of the ministry dedicated to making sure if Muggles don't see or remember magic.
00:17:54
Speaker
Right. I know there's a whole bunch of lore about it. It's not really told in in this story about Harry Potter, but like, why the wizards had to had to be in hiding. And you'd think that if it was so crucial, so important to that the whole wizarding community has has agreed that they have to be in hiding from the muggles, that they would learn how to actually be in hiding. Like at the World Cup, the ministry wizards are like running around trying to stop people from doing spells where The muggles could see them, the muggles who run the campsite and just like doing these memory spells on them over and over and over again to like make them forget. It's like, there's a real hubris there of like, Oh yeah, we're not supposed to do magic in front of the muggles, but if we do whatever, we just erase their memory. Yeah. oh There's a power imbalance. Like the wizards really do have capabilities that the muggles don't. And I think it it's short sighted, but they're also like, Oh, Oh, well.
00:18:54
Speaker
But yeah, I think it is interesting how you can exist in the same space and have no connection with the other people around you. So I think it shows that pretty clearly. I mean, her by any eye and all of these withers and what they're wearing or even trying to give them some subtle advice. You know, but oh you maybe wouldn't want to put those together.
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah. With Rita Skeeter though, she has a fashion sense, but it's like a wizard fashion sense. It seems like whenever Rita is mentioned, it's also mentioned that she's wearing something brightly colored, right? Like there's a point to wearing something. We always know what she's wearing. So like, what do you think is going on with with that?
00:19:37
Speaker
I mean, she's certainly portrayed as being like sharp and perceptive. And I imagine her being like very fashion forward. And I might be influenced by the movies some here, but she's always wearing something bright. And now, like at the end of the book, when you realize she's in a mangas and she's a beetle, you know, you think of those shimmery colors on the beetle, the iridescent. So I think,
00:20:07
Speaker
um Raleigh might be. might be giving us little hints about that iridescence with her her brightly colored clothing. Oh, interesting. Just like the flash of color that you see when you see a beetle scuttling around. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking about about right now. But also, a flashy dress wizard, even in the muggle world, would probably command a degree of respect. you know she've probably it's It's a power move for Rita, for sure.
00:20:39
Speaker
Yes, and that power comes from something kind of underhanded, I want to say. She's able to get these stories because she's breaking the law and she's sneaking around. And it's not a power like Dumbledore's power or like even McGonagall's power that there's a lot of integrity.
00:20:58
Speaker
No, she's mean and nasty. That was something that also struck me throughout the novel is that archery heroes are regularly encountering these people that are straight up mean and nasty. And I feel like Rita falls into that category. I feel like she does it out of selfishness. She makes the living out of writing nasty things about people that sell papers.
00:21:24
Speaker
And so she really had no shame um as she interviews people and makes things up and goes for that kind of unauthorized story. Just seeing the trend of journalism over the last couple of decades. I mean, I have a journalism degree, so just seeing how these sort of high ideals that I was taught in journalism school about how to tell a story and how to like try to verify your information. And a lot of those um practices have gone away, right? Like even in the most respected newspapers, you'll see overuse of anonymous sources and and it's just bad journalism. And it's interesting that there's Rita Skeeter as an example of
00:22:11
Speaker
of a journalist who's aggrandizing herself rather than telling a story and just making stuff up like just telling lies and then when she does find something that's true like the story about Hagrid being a half giant using that to ruin someone's life like why why is it anyone's business like she uses this banner of like the people have a right to know right like they want they need to know that if their kids are at school with a half giant it's like Do they? Well, Hagrid's a complicated case, ah but but but it's just like the worst possible way of addressing Hagrid's capability as a teacher is just to call him a half giant and then let the angry letters come in. you know
00:22:55
Speaker
I mean, I think it comes back to something that we're facing every day now and that, you know, wild stories sell papers, they sell news. It's all about the marketing and kind of the wealth of that industry. So it's hard not to read an article and then go through and have to fact check it. And I'm using ground news so that i I can see, oh, who is covering that story? How factual is it?
00:23:23
Speaker
Because to a degree, that that machine kind of generates a shared experience for people. kind In some ways, it's like a Stabilizer or eyes. That's not quite the right word. But like even this weekly is affected by Rita's article in which weekly about Hermione And a girl who's you know at her own house Yeah, Cornelia's fudge is affected by what he's reading like these people in power are affected by what they're reading and the ministry goes on to use
00:24:02
Speaker
the newspaper as a tool for kind of hiding information and manipulating society as the novels go on. So Rita is certainly not put out as a upstanding journalist, you know, she's not doing that oh but career any favor, of that business any good yeah but yeah Oh, and just one more thing about Rita Skeeter, she creates conspiracy theories and conspiracy theories have been a big part. I thought that was interesting that she's able to drum up these these whole conspiracy theories. That kind of plays to Voldemort's hand. He certainly uses
00:24:47
Speaker
you know, he uses fear to his advantage. He knows how to manipulate people using him fear. I think as things continue from this point on, this is the book where I feel like the kids gloves are off. Everything else, like moving forward in the series, become you know, life and death or, you know, society is facing a huge problem. The death of of Cedric is so shocking. He's just an innocent student, the most innocent bystander of innocent bystanders, right? And he's just killed. um And, you know, how we were we are in our 20s when we read this book, but I really wonder for the younger millennials if that affected them in any way, you know?
00:25:32
Speaker
Do you have but thoughts on young middle school age kids, teenagers reading about death in this way? I think it certainly affects a reader when a character that you've gotten to know over you know a bit of time is just needlessly killed, especially somebody that's as stand up as Cedric is. You don't fall in love with him, but he's also an okay guy. So for him to be ah murdered with no reason or up pomp and circumstance, like there's no gravity to his murder. It's just, boom, dead.
00:26:15
Speaker
And we move on. That's really challenging, but also I think reading about death affects us differently at different ages because your life experiences play into it. So even. Younger millennials or kids who pick up the the novel for the first time and read it today may or may not dwell on that death to the same degree. Yeah.
00:26:41
Speaker
um But we're we're also lifted list you know living in a world with school shootings and things like that where innocent people just are taken from you instantly because someone else has a problem.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah. Well, can't say that Cedric's death affected me, but reading through this book, you know, I've never read these books out of order. I always would restart when a new book was coming out. I would start back at the beginning and reread all the previous books and in preparation for the for the new book to come out. So I've read them all many times, except for the last one. And in the last one,
00:27:19
Speaker
there are a lot of deaths. And I know you mentioned this too, you have the same experience where you're reading about these characters in this book and you know which ones are going to die in that battle in the seventh book. And that that did affect me a bit reading this. It it definitely influenced my reading of of this one. I haven't gone back and reread the later books as much as I read the early books, like books one through three. And so revisiting this one after many years of not reading Harry Potter, you know it's it's hard to read the playful banter between Fred and George, knowing that you're going to lose one of them. Even reading about Hedwig or Dobby, all of these different characters that we lose,
00:28:08
Speaker
I got a little sad every time I'd read about one of those characters. I couldn't really focus on them as these new fresh lively characters anymore. ah yeah Like their future death kind of overshadowed my current reading.
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the ones that got me it was Dennis and Colin Creevy, you know, and I think it's the skill of the storytelling to have such a layered and rich world where Dennis and Colin Creevy are just like in the background.
00:28:40
Speaker
But they're consistently there in the background. And so, you know, and there's that scene in the last book where Harry walks through the Great Hall and sees all of the casualties and it's just like hit after hit after hit of like Oh, this person's gone, this person's gone. Because we've had so many years and so many books of these folks just being around, it does feel like a loss. I mean, I've experienced real grief and real loss in my life since these books came out. And the grief from ah from a story is completely different for me than grief I've experienced in real life.
00:29:18
Speaker
But I don't know how well established it is, the idea that people who read fiction have empathy, like it's a way of practicing empathy, ah immersing yourself in stories and and and learning about these imaginary people. I haven't seen a direct connection between reading stories where where some there's loss and grief and my real life experience of it. But i I do wonder if there was some some kind of preparation or some kind of resilience from reading these books when I was young and then having loss in my life later. Yeah, it's like a just a light inoculation. yeah Every time it's like they taking your your mind and your emotions and your body through like a little practice, little practice dealing with loss. ah I think reading fiction helps build your ability to
00:30:15
Speaker
look at situations from different perspectives as you read a variety of different books and different fiction, especially depending on what point of view the author takes. Even in this one, it's like, well, you can see Harry's perspective about being suddenly this champion in the Triwizard Tournament. You can also see Ron's very clearly, like we have this this outside perspective where it makes it really easy to understand the motivations and the actions of our characters, you know to the point where you're out there, you're with Hermione, come on Ron, just talk to him or Harry, just talk to Ron. ah Because I think those those perspectives and characters are just developed really well. But I think you know we're getting
00:31:03
Speaker
Definitely into to the last book. But all of this is happening in such a small community. There's a world of wizards. All of these battles, especially between Harry and Voldemort, are fought on this very small space. You're intimate with all of the characters involved, even at this level midway through the series. ah You know Cedric because he was a seeker for the Hufflepuff Quidditch team.
00:31:34
Speaker
So you've we've already, we've been building these relationships and instead of this being a war that's being fought in another country, it's a war that's being fought in a very intimate place. Yeah. Even even though it affects all of the wizarding world.
00:31:51
Speaker
Well, I think that goes back to these books being like growing with the reader as the reader grows. Like you like you start when you're 11 and then as you mature, the books mature. But it's all within this framework of the school and and the the framing of the stories are consistent, right? Like the you begin at the Dursleys in the summer and you have, there's the Christmas vacation always. There's the Quidditch, but in this in this book, it's the tournament and then the reveal, right? Because there's always a mystery element to the story. So then the mystery has to be solved. And I always enjoyed that too. I always enjoyed trying to figure out the clues and solve the mystery. and this In this book, the mystery is
00:32:41
Speaker
Moody is actually not Moody, you know, it's always, and the dark arts teacher is only going to be there for one year, you know, and it's like, why is Moody gonna leave? Moody's great. Oh, you have to figure out what's going to cause the dark arts teacher to leave. Like those repeating, what would they be called, tropes, structures to the story. I think that's part of setting up a young person with literacy, right? Like with the ability to really sink into a story and get something out of it is providing these handrails. It's like, okay, I know when I sit down to read Harry Potter, it might start with some event, but I know it's going to be summer. I know we're going to go to Hogwarts. I know that there's going to be something fishy about the defense of the dark arts teacher, um you know, and
00:33:38
Speaker
And even though usually the beginning of the novel kind of develops Ron and Hermione and Harry and their friendships and their character, by the time we get to Christmas break, they're going to be working hard to solve some problem. Right.
00:33:55
Speaker
And we're trying to solve that problem along with them. You know, I think from Harry's perspective, you know, the big question is who put my name in the goblet and how am I going to survive this? But then the answer ends up being so much bigger than Harry would have ever guessed. I really loved reading the reveal chapter in Goblet of Fire this time. Listening to Barty Crouch Jr. tell how he did everything was just amazing. You're like, oh yeah, oh yeah. you You can pick up all of those clues. You can see how it worked, even though everything seemed like it was coming from somewhere else. It really fell into place nicely that no, he could have been there. He could have done that. It's just barely believable.
00:34:43
Speaker
Yeah. That's part of what makes it fun. Yeah. Well, and he has a misstep. I think it's really interesting. I mean, that moment with Neville just broke my heart this time in you know their first class at Moody or or whatever, when they're going over the unforgivable curses and Neville has such a strong reaction. And that's when we learn. I think it's just barely mentioned that Neville's parents were tortured with with the Cruciatus curse.
00:35:11
Speaker
I think I wrote in my notes this time. I was like, this is a kid's book. Like we're talking about a poor 14 year old boy grieving his parents who were tortured. And then Moody gives him a book of plants. When the first time you read it, you're like, oh, Moody, he is a decent person. I mean, he's like a weird guy because he's like so crazy about catching dark wizards.
00:35:32
Speaker
but he's a good person and yes, it's okay. He's a teacher, right? Even though he's showing them illegal curses, ah like, and he puts- Well, as a student, that's exciting. You're like, oh. Sure. Yes, exactly. I don't think Dumbledore knew about that, but- I don't think he did either.
00:35:51
Speaker
Yeah. And then at the end it's revealed. Oh, that's why, that's why Moody never gets Harry into trouble. You know, like it's, yeah, putting, ah putting that all together. Now there's something we've been kind of talking about like revisiting, right? Like we, we know the series, we know how it ends. We're revisiting the book. What does that do with nostalgia? Like,
00:36:11
Speaker
Going back to a book that you've read, I mean, i I like to reread books. I read them over and over again. I get a lot out of it. Well, especially good books that have many layers. You get a lot out of multiple readings. But going back to something that you loved when you you were a lot younger. I don't know. I feel, is there more to say about that? Do you have anything to add about that? Like what is this experience of the story stays the same? These characters are alive in this book, but we know later on that some of them are not. And just like ah trying to grasp, like what does that do for us? I think it makes it a little bittersweet. Kind of like thinking about your own childhood is a little bittersweet.
00:36:57
Speaker
because things have been lost and broken along the way, experiences you have evolve with perspective as you get older. And with a book like Harry Potter or a series like Harry Potter, um where you get so close to the characters, I think it's especially poignant. Because if it's a book that's more about maybe an adventure or a particular experience. You know, I read The Giver with you for an earlier podcast and the theme of that book is what really affects me as I'm reading it. And so it didn't bring back nostalgia for me. It just made me revisit the theme of the book, which is really powerful. Whereas with Harry Potter,
00:37:54
Speaker
I've developed a relationship with all of these characters. So the things they experience affect me more like spending time with a friend that I haven't seen in a while as opposed to a bigger idea. Yeah. Because that the theme in Harry Potter is is very much light versus darkness, love versus fear. That's a very broad theme that I hardly ever have any deep thoughts about, but the characters, you fall in love with the characters. You want to know how they are and what they're doing. And I think maybe because you befriend them when you're young, you expect them to continue to have new experiences.
00:38:35
Speaker
o so when Harry Potter and the Cursed Child came out. I got a copy and I read it and I was kind of excited to see, oh, these these characters ended up together. These characters have kids. you know This is what their life is like now because it's about the characters and instead of an issue.
00:38:55
Speaker
Right. Instead of an idea, an abstract. One thing I wanted to mention was how they always break the rules. In the first book, they start breaking the rules and that always stood out for me. I was like, these kids never follow the rules and yet somehow that's the right thing to do and I wonder if that has anything to tell us about the millennial mindset. I was recently with a group of mostly Boomer H people and they said something about millennials being entitled and I was like um hi there I'm a millennial but but like are millennials entitled no I don't think so but like what is I wonder if that has something to do with like
00:39:43
Speaker
Is there a generational difference in how millennials approach the so-called rules? And is that why we were called entitled and still are called entitled? That's really funny because hearing you say that, I think, well, the Boomers didn't have any rules. And then they made a lot of rules. I think about being an 80s kid and all of the references now are that, you know, being a child in the 70s and 80s and 90s, your parents would just send you outside.
00:40:12
Speaker
Come back before dark. you know There really wasn't a lot of oversight. So that's a little different than what our characters are doing and in this book because they are constantly breaking the rules, but I feel like that's a ah part of childhood, but maybe maybe ah all of these books we read when we were younger romanticized it, like romanticized breaking the rules for us.
00:40:41
Speaker
but they generally have a good reason. They are well-meaning while they break the rules. It's always for a greater good. Yes, but I think, I'm trying to think of a specific example and in Goblet of Fire, but I do know out in some of the other books, they're putting themselves in real danger by breaking the rules. And they're just like, no, maybe because they're Gryffindor. Like, no, I have to be the one who goes out and does the thing instead of telling the grownup who maybe is more capable of ah of doing the thing, you know? like
00:41:15
Speaker
They're just so, they are independent. Like they take on the responsibility for themselves of solving the mystery of the story. Even though all the adults are telling them, no, like it's like, come ask for help. And they're like, no, we're just gonna do it. It also kind of reinforces the idea that people, adults rarely understand young people.
00:41:44
Speaker
and their concerns. right Because for some of this, if if Harry Potter or Hermione would have been like, oh, there's a troll and we've got to go get the troll. They'd be like, no, there's not a troll here. you know there' They're just not believed a lot of the time.
00:42:03
Speaker
or they tell themselves that no one would believe them. So whether or not Professor McGonagall or Dumbledore would would hear one of their issues and believe them, they've told themselves, no one would believe this. So it's up to me to fix it.
00:42:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know, that quote, it's in a later book. Dumbledore tells Harry, he apologizes to Harry and says, I as an old person, I i should remember what it's like to be young. I should, have you know, and he's like, I should have treated you differently and and had more compassion for you. And I've thought about that a lot, especially, you know, turning 40 and suddenly there are all these 20 year olds telling us what to do and how we're parting our hair wrong and wearing the wrong clothes. And it's like, uh, excuse me. And beyond that, even, you know, having more acceptance for people with different lifestyles, right? Like really having to question
00:43:06
Speaker
the biases that I didn't know I had. Like, wait, am I biased in this way? like So that Dumbledore quote really helped me. i thought of i've I've thought about it a lot when I'm confronted with something that's like, the Gen Z says X. And I'm like, I don't dismiss things as quickly. It's like, oh, I remember being young in my early 20s and having this vision and hope for how the world should work.
00:43:32
Speaker
and and being frustrated that the older people around me refused to believe that things could change for the better. you know It's like having the respect for that. we're We're facing that as we you know try to deal with climate change. you know Many of the activists are very young. ah And so listening to those voices and respecting those voices because the world's changing around us. and um you know Dumbledore is also a rule breaker. Because there's different levels of rules. There's the rules that keep you safe. um There's the rules that are really just society's parameters about what's accepted and what's not. And sometimes those need to change. Those need to be broken. Like the prejudice with Hagrid and Madam Maxine being part giant.
00:44:31
Speaker
the way house elves are treated in some cases. I wouldn't say that all wizards are bad to their house elves, but we don't have really great examples. Werewolves, the prejudice against Lupin. So in some ways they're breaking, you know Dumbledore is breaking those rules, the societal rules. So I think it's just important to really examine all of the structures and all of the rules. Because sometimes they break rules and do get hurt.
00:45:01
Speaker
yeah But you just have to think about like, why is this rule here? and um And I think that's important for us in our everyday lives as well. And it's important to be bold enough to break those rules sometimes. Sure.
00:45:15
Speaker
I mean, wow, I really relate to Hermione um because when she finds out that house elves work in the kitchen that first night back at Hogwarts and she just like stops eating and then she's eating the next morning and Ron kind of teases her about it. um And she's like, well, i I figured that there were better things I could do to to fight for the rights of house elves. And Ron says, yeah, and you're hungry. I really relate to that.
00:45:41
Speaker
Because you know I was working as a political activist in jobs that I had a strong mission and a strong passion for, but they didn't pay well. And at some point I had to say, look, I need a job with the 401k and a healthcare plan. Like I just can't continue working these low paying jobs because of a mission, you know, my 20 year old self would be appalled. It's like, but my perspective changed. So.
00:46:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard to, you know, live your life with every situation that you encounter, having to try and cycle that perspective through different lenses. You know, there's the immediate and myopic and then spreading it out to how it affects other people, the world, your life over a longer period of time. Because yeah, Hermione definitely has to face that she gets all fired up and then you know, she makes assumptions that ah in some ways aren't hers to make. and So she has to, you know, backpedal a bit. Even though she's not wrong about some of these elves being mistreated, some of them are, but she also can't tell the elves how to feel. So she's having to shift her perspective throughout the novel. And by the end, Spew just disappears.
00:47:13
Speaker
No, no, it comes back in the next book. I remember it in the next book. Yeah. Are we ready to talk about genre themes? Yeah. Let's give it a shot. So first of all, genuine connections with our first episode on one in a millennial, we talked about how the internet has changed the way people connect to each other. And so I'm looking for Where does genuine connection show up in these books? And the thing that stands out to me is it's a fourth book. So Ron and Hermione and Harry have a strong connection. therere They are friends and they and and Ron and Harry have a fight. And this happens more than once where what they someone's fighting with someone.
00:47:56
Speaker
But they come back and they're friends again. And I think that's a really important example because how do you form friendships that are that close where that there's a freedom to fight and be bad at each other, right? Like I feel like that's not something that I can say about friendships made as adults. It seems a lot harder to to to recover from a conflict because it's so easy to just exit each other's lives. you know It takes more effort to stay with each other. So that's that's one example of connection. Yeah. In Ron and Harry's situation, there's really nowhere else to go.
00:48:43
Speaker
And I think when you're younger, that's often the case. Like you're just put back in front of that person over and over and over again. in school or clubs or wherever your friends. And that's that's true for Harry and Ron. And it's like their interaction has to be sustained for like a month of them not speaking to each other until you know Ron gets jarred by the task with the dragon to go, oh man, that was that was crazy. And you did that.
00:49:14
Speaker
um which which brought them back together. And so they had time to cool off and then they had an experience that brought them back together. And I think now it's easier to walk away. It's easier to walk away as an adult because you have the autonomy to, but also with with social media and technology, it's easy to hide away from an interaction with someone just behind a screen. You can still be in the same room for years and never Yeah. oh Never get past those problems that you might have had. Anything else to say about connection in this book? No, the Triwizard Tournament is about bringing different parts of the wizarding world together. So I've always kind of liked the connection between Hermione and ch Crumb.
00:50:04
Speaker
o You know, it's these people who are from different schools. ah There's really no reason for Crumb to be interested in Hermione, other than the fact that she is not following him around with goo-goo eyes. thank yeah But it seems like they still have, like, he wouldn't have been in the library initially unless he maybe shared that commitment to studying and learning. Like I think that's something they have in common beyond the fact that he didn't want an airhead. And here's this interesting fellow student who is just really focused and I think he admires that focus and we get to know ch Crumb a little bit and he follows her around like a puppy dog and she has no interest, but there's still a connection there that I really enjoy.
00:50:57
Speaker
Yeah, I think it makes sense for a young athlete that that I never thought about that before that she is focused and he can see that. And as a young athlete, athletes have to be focused. And so that makes a lot of sense that he would be attracted to that. And then the fact that she's not chasing him around for an autograph that I can also see that being very attractive to a young athlete as well that I'm who who's going to like me for me and so of course the person who's not starstruck by him is going to stand out too. I or the prize that's hardest to catch.
00:51:37
Speaker
Yes, yes, exactly. He's the he's the seeker. um And that's different than Flor de la Cour, too, who is ah who knows she's beautiful. But we don't really see her connect with anyone until Harry and Ron at the lake. you know That's where it's like, oh, she's not just this ice queen. like we get to you know she She really loves her sister. and ah She is changed by that experience and then develops a connection with Harry and Ron ah and the Weasley's that goes on in the series. So I don't know. Those were little connection moments. Hagrid and Madam Maxine yeah that have shared life experiences.
00:52:25
Speaker
Um, okay. Female characters. It's always bugged me that floor does the worst in the tournament. Like and it's always just sat in the back of my mind of like, why is the one girl, the one who's in last place? Like that just always kind of nagged at me. I think the girls.
00:52:42
Speaker
I don't know. It seemed to me that Hermione had a lot of not like other girl syndrome. I hadn't noticed in previous readings where she gets annoyed with the Boba Tom girls being cold. And it's like, they're from a warmer climate. Like they're cold. Um, I get that Hermione's young and I can forgive her for that. But like, I don't know if I forget, if I forgive the overall book and its treatment of some of these female characters.
00:53:09
Speaker
i I think JK Rowling might really identify with Hermione and there's probably a lot of feminine tendencies that she doesn't respect.
00:53:21
Speaker
And I feel that way from my childhood. ah I always tended more towards the tomboy style. I always took my studying very seriously. I never wore makeup. I never looked particularly nice because I was like, oh, that's not important. And I would roll my eyes at the cheerleaders. um And so I'm not proud of that feeling. Yeah. Because I probably did sideline a lot of really wonderful people.
00:53:50
Speaker
um But as a kid reading about these, I really loved Hermione and I was completely sympathetic with all of her eye rolling at the other girls in the novel. Again, that's not something I feel good about though as an adult.
00:54:13
Speaker
Yeah, no, I, I definitely sympathize. I mean, I was, I was the book reading girl. Like, I don't know that I connected with the feminine girls either. Right. I was just.
00:54:29
Speaker
reading the book, I didn't pay much attention to my clothes. um Yeah, so I think I can sympathize. And actually, I just remember one of the movies was on TV one day and I was in the in the room with my dad and Hermione said something and my dad goes, oh, no wonder you like this movie. You're just like Hermione. And I was like, I think Hermione was saying something about not wanting to get expelled.
00:54:55
Speaker
or something. And I was like, I don't care that much about getting expelled. ah But my dad was like, we're gonna like her. I was like, okay. but I definitely relate to Hermione being the first one raising her hand in class to answer all the questions, reading all the books, all of her classmates being like, how do you know that? And she's like, well, I read it in a book. Like, that was that was me in school. So I connected with that. But as far as female characters, I don't know. I think the series is blessed by Luna, who comes in in the next book. ah So very happy for Luna to come in. But yeah, I'm not i'm not thrilled with the way the women
00:55:33
Speaker
It's so weird how like Mrs. Weasley and Mrs. Dursley are both housewives. And it makes me think of, it must just be like Rowling's perspective. Cause probably when she was a child, most of the moms were housewives, right? They didn't have as many, like didn't have as many careers. So that feels kind of antiquated. Yeah. Our other characters, our other female characters are Professor McGonagall, who is excellent, but ancient.
00:56:03
Speaker
And, um, Oh, the divination, the whole the divination teacher. ah sir And of course it's like lavender and not rotty with a lot of, yeah, not written with a lot of respect there either. Um, you have Rita Skeeter, who is gorgeous, but evil. vile I should say maybe not evil. So yeah, it is really hard to find the female.
00:56:29
Speaker
role models in this series, or they live in a lot of stereotype. Yeah. Even Fleur, who you know grows on you as the series continues, starts off in this kind of, she's portrayed as like vain and cold.
00:56:47
Speaker
um you you know, she finds the most attractive boy to take to the ball, even though she has no connection with him. So ah yeah, that's ah but that's something that's kind of missing. It's like you really do only have a couple of female characters to look up to. yeah and And Hermione is great because of her dedication, her studiousness, her boldness, you know, those things those things come out.
00:57:16
Speaker
ah But we're also forced to remember in this book that she is a girl. Open your eyes, Ron. yes she can She can put on beautiful dress robes and smoother hair back and be, you know, beautiful and worth pursuing. And that comes as a major shock to her friends.
00:57:38
Speaker
Well, to Ron, it's not clear to me how much Harry is agreeing with Ron and in those parts. I just have to say as someone with naturally curly hair, I do not approve of her straightening her hair for the ball, like find the curly girl method, come on. um But yeah, like Ron, I think that's supposed to be setting up romance between Ron and Hermione maybe. I mean, I think Rowling has said that she originally intended Hermione to end up with Harry, but then it didn't work out that way.
00:58:06
Speaker
um So yeah, I don't know how much Harry shares that reaction. they're just They're so squarely in the friend zone, and then there's no other male characters to evaluate Hermione, other than Malfoy, who's making fun of her bushy hair and her big teeth. Yeah.
00:58:27
Speaker
Now, does this story reflect the idea that we were raised in a world that no longer exists? I mean, Harry, I think this is related to the next genre theme, which is the hero's journey, which is like Harry was chosen.
00:58:42
Speaker
to be special. Like he didn't ask for it. It's a really interesting framing of he grew up with the Muggle family and so didn't know he was special. And then he's chosen as a wizard. And then he realizes that he's special. So when you have the hero's journey, I've shared this on the um the book club podcast social media. So if you're not following it on Twitter, please find us on Twitter. You can see the hero's journey image that I shared about being called and then having, there's a lot we don't have to talk about at all. But like, I think the big part that the pattern that I'm seeing in this season is the hero has to go through
00:59:19
Speaker
has to accomplish some goal and achieve something and it changes the hero internally and it changes the greater society. And we see that in the full seven book series of Harry Potter, but then we also see it in Microcosm in this book. Harry is chosen to be a champion against his will and he meets the challenge with help And then as a result of him being the champion, Voldemort comes back. And that is a huge change for all of the world, basically, even for the muggles who don't know anything about it. um That's where it busts out of the microcosm again. It's like, oh, this was a it was a microcosm like he was chosen as the hero. And it could have been something smaller within Hogwarts or within Wizarding Academia. But then, boom, you're in the graveyard. It's back to big picture.
01:00:10
Speaker
changing Harry's life, changing the world. Yeah. um And so it was Harry raised in a world that no longer exists. I mean, Harry represents the hope and the end of a war for the people who were alive when he was, when Voldemort, I guess he kind of, he defeated Voldemort as a baby.
01:00:30
Speaker
And like, oh, and this is the book where we learn what what that curse was that killed Harry's parents and the curse that he survived, right? We didn't know the name of that. I just love that layering of storytelling. It's just masterful. So Harry was raised in a world, first of all, he was raised the muggles, but then like when he enters the wizarding world, Voldemort is gone, right? Like there's nothing to be worried about. He learns that that's not true, but like,
01:00:58
Speaker
I don't know. What does that say about the millennial experience that we thought we were born into a world of peace and prosperity? This may be a stretch. Tell me what you think. I think we did have that impression growing up in the eighties and nineties. The world was a safe place for us. And now we're like, it would be nice if all of our dragons were in the form of dragons or Lord Voldemort, but instead we are currently facing social issues that seem insurmountable, where you kind of ask, well, what could one person do about this huge problem? you know What can I do about war in Gaza? What can I do about climate change? What can I do to protect the rights of other people in my own country?
01:01:55
Speaker
Um, it's just our dragons aren't dragons. Yeah. Yes. I, that's true. But is that different with other generations? I don't think so. So it's a part of growing up. It's a part of growing up, but it's also a way for us to give a name to the roles we might play. Hmm. Like a way to understand what our role might be.
01:02:25
Speaker
in the world, that even if it's something small like standing up and speaking at a city council meeting or voting or writing a letter to the editor, it's a small thing that you might need help along the way.
01:02:43
Speaker
that might change you, that might have a larger change. So even if it's never as grand as Harry versus Voldemort or Frodo destroying the ring, those small things we do in life are still hard and scary. OK, so let's talk about the movie. How about you go first real quick? Oh, so because I read the book and then immediately watched the movie,
01:03:14
Speaker
all of the differences were just glaring at me. It felt like a flip book version of the novel I had just finished. Yeah. um I hate the movie. I hated it so much. And the reason why is that it gets so close to being perfect. like it just Like the cast is awesome. I love every single cast member. They're perfect. The setting is, is amazing. ah The music, I mean, it's so great, but then the writing or maybe it's the editing. If you don't read the book, you don't know what's going on in the movie and that makes it a bad movie, right? They show these pieces from the book, but they don't really have any
01:04:01
Speaker
closure on it. The most egregious one I think is you have Hermione and Ron having a fight at the Yule Ball and you have this heartbreaking scene of Hermione sitting on the stairs crying and she says, Ron, you ruined everything. And then nothing happens. There's no like payoff for that. And that just happens over and over again. There's no payoff with Rita Skeer. They show her briefly. like They're just like flashing like a flip book, like you said, that they just, hey, you, remember this from the book? Wasn't that great?
01:04:30
Speaker
And I felt that way about all the movies. I remember you used to watch the movies on DVD and I would just like come into the room and you would be watching a Harry Potter movie and I would just be like, oh, Harry Potter movies, they're so bad. Do you remember that at all? Well, I like to have movies on while I was cleaning and doing other things. And because the books were so fresh in my mind, I could just fill in all the missing details.
01:04:59
Speaker
i could I could forgive the absences. and And I think that's what was surprising when I watched the movie this time. and I was like, oh, there's no... Quidditch match. Oh, there's no Winky. What? He was, yeah Crouch was there at the beginning. There were so many just glaring errors and omissions. And then you'd have these like, there would be a scene where it would show this like beautiful setting. And as you said, like great characters, great acting and a one-liner and they cut to a new scene. Yeah. Nothing would happen as they transitioned from scene to scene.
01:05:38
Speaker
it was jarring yeah One exception is the scene. I mean, I'm sure that they really had to get it right. They were really focused on it was was the graveyard, right? Like that was done really well. But I always felt this at the time too. I think that the movies really suffered because she hadn't finished writing the books when they started making the movies. And so you didn't, like the movie makers had no way to know what would be the threads to to emphasize early on. i I really thought that that suffered.
01:06:09
Speaker
It would be better done as a mini series. Yes. The cast is so great. Like I love how, I mean, oh my gosh, Rickman as Snape. Genius. ah We'll never get Alan Rickman again. They're going to have to wait a good 15 years before they recast it and do it as a mini series.
01:06:30
Speaker
yeah so that all of us who have fallen in love with these actors ah can move on enough to to accept someone else in the role. Right. Yeah, exactly. Well, I want to ask our listeners to subscribe on Substack and help support the show. um You can have a paid subscription on Substack And it's a small podcast. We need support just to do the bare bones minimum of producing an audio file and and sharing it on the internet. So if you are able to share $5 a month or $5 a year, that would help the podcast continue and make sure we can do future seasons.
01:07:10
Speaker
If you become a paid subscriber before the end of this season on Millennial nostalgia, um you will have a chance to pick a book for a bonus discussion. So Jenny, what are your final thoughts on Goblet of Fire? To be honest, I struggled getting into this most recent reading, but by the time we made it past the Yule Ball and all of the drama that was shaping it towards the second half of the book, I really got sucked in. And by the time I finished, I was like, wow, this was really lovely. It was great to ah kind of be pulled back into Harry Potter's world for a little while.
01:07:55
Speaker
Yeah, I loved it. i Like, it's weird for me to read it out of order. So that kind of annoys me. And it was hard for me to not immediately pick up the next book as soon as I finished it. I'm just used to them. i'm I'm considering reading book five now.
01:08:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard to not just finish the story. It's just so well done. I was immediately like back in the world and just like the texture of the world and the details and even just like the physical. This is the same book I've had since I first bought it.
01:08:30
Speaker
when it first came out and just the feeling of the paper, the weight of the book, it just was just a full sensory experience that I just enjoyed so much um and really, really could appreciate even more just the technical storytelling, the skill in it. So yeah.
01:08:50
Speaker
but Well, I should say that I find Harry and Ron's spat at the beginning particularly painful, so that might have had something to do with my interaction with the beginning of the novel. Oh, interesting. That's interesting. All right. we yeah we We can't talk about that right now, but that's very interesting. um Listeners, what do you think of the Harry Potter series as a whole, ah the Goblet of Fire in particular?
01:09:13
Speaker
Other books by J.K. Rowling. What do you think of our millennial nostalgia topic? um Let us know by recording a voice memo and emailing openingquestionatgmail.com. You can also comment on the substack at bookclubcom. And you can find me on Twitter at book underscore club underscore pod and on threads at sea rose jack. I will also link to those social media profiles in the show notes.
01:09:42
Speaker
So also please, if you're enjoying the podcast, leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify to help new listeners find the show. Our next book discussion