Transcript

Speaker: So I don't really worry about my competition because really nobody is copying what I do. Welcome to the Fashion Geek Podcast, the show that helps you learn more about men's fashion and get some tips to help you dress your best.

Speaker: This is Reg Ferguson, Fashion Geek number one, and I'm a men's fashion consultant here in New York City, born and raised. My mission is to help you learn more about men's fashion so you can become fashion confident.

Speaker: Do you like shoes? Are you willing to spend a lot of money on shoes? What style do you like?

Speaker: Do you only wear black shoes? Do you only like black shoes? Do you like suede? Have you ever bought a custom made to order shoe?

Speaker: My guest, Justin Fitzpatrick, Jay Fitzpatrick Footwear is here on the show because he is the creator of his own shoe line.

Speaker: Hey, if you ever found yourself staring at the closet, not knowing what to wear, if the idea of shopping for clothes makes you feel physically ill, Wait till the end of the show and I have something for you.

Speaker: But for now, let's get to the show. Yo, today we're gonna talk with Justin Fitzpatrick, who is the creator of J. Fitzpatrick Shoes.

Speaker: And we're gonna talk about something the everyday man should have an interest in. Why is this one of the best shoe brands in New York City? And maybe beyond.

Speaker: Justin, what's up, man? How you doing? Thanks for the kind words. Oh, no, I meant it. I'm not only an interviewer, I'm also a consumer. So, this is an unbiased interview. He knows that no money was exchanged. Well, no money was exchanged, but not back to me.

Speaker: So, before we go into our topic, please tell us, so what do you do?

Speaker: So what do you do?

Speaker: I do a lot of things. First and foremost, I'm founder and co-owner of j Fitzpatrick Footwear, my shoe brand here in New York City, where we offer classic welted shoes with a twist.

Speaker: As you can probably see by the colors in the background, the twists. I also write a shoe blog called the Shoe Snob Blog. where I talk about the whole industry, and well, the whole welted kind of industry, and try to educate as much as I can. The the readers, everything there is to know about high-end welted shoes.

Speaker: To me, the term Goodyear welted has really been in the forefront for, let's say, at least the past 10 years, right? I mean, think about it. Before we were ever thought of, Goodyear was doing this. yeah But all of a sudden, it became a term, I think particularly in the hashtag Classic Menswear crew, that they jumped on it.

Speaker: And any shoemaker worth his or her salt, if they're marketing their product, and they do that type of product, they leave with... this is a welted shoe, this is Goodyear welted.

Speaker: How do you think that became such a ah sexy term for something to me is so clunky, to be honest? Well, I think there's varying degrees of Goodyear welted. There can be clunky ones, but there can also be really refined ones, say like a Gazziano Gerlin, that you don't look at that shoe and say, that's clunky.

Speaker: You know, often... ah The word welted is attributed to quality. It goes through a lot more stages of production than your typical a cemented or Blake stitch shoe, which are far more rapid builds.

Speaker: And so I think with the rise of the internet era and social media, people were able to understand and see what that word meant and be able to access far more shoes from that community of of manufacturers.

Speaker: Let's go back prior to Instagram and globalization. And if you're in let's just say you're in Seattle, Washington, where I'm from. Right.

Speaker: There are maybe three brands you could get who are Goodyear welted. There's Allen Edmonds, maybe Alden. There's few places that sold Alden in Seattle.

Speaker: And then if you're lucky, department stores sold churches from England. sure That's it. Everything else was ruled by Italian makers. So nobody back then really knew what Goodyear welted was or meant, nor did they really care, to be honest.

Speaker: They were happy with the made in Italy and comfort and flex soul and all of that stuff. But then as the rise of internet, social media, being able to buy a shoe halfway across the planet from your phone, people started to see what was really out there, not just what was accessible in their city, but what was accessible in the world.

Speaker: And they started to see that actually quality laid in the welted side of of shoemaking. And so they wanted to, you achieve that people normally want to try to achieve the best they can at the best value they can so this is what they sought after and then as time progressed there was a big bubble and and a big trend and the bubble was in Europe but then it started to grow even further now down to Asia where there's huge rise of manufacturing and and instead of those new Asian manufacturers doing Blake shoes or or or cemented shoes, they're doing welted and next level hand-welted. So they're even skipping production lines and going straight to single workman single workman kind of craftsmanship where actual people are putting the shoes together, not just machines. and fur

Speaker: A very scary low price. For the people who don't really understand, can you explain, first of all, what welted or a Goodyear welted shoe means? And then the second point is, or question, can you then make a comparison for the listeners and viewers between that and Blake's judging? Sure.

Speaker: Try to show it with my hands because without something to show, it might be hard to conceptualize for those not familiar manufacturing. But when you have a shoe, let's just grab one. Yeah. When you have a shoe, ah you have its mold, right? And you have the the the leather, which is called the upper.

Speaker: So when you put the upper onto the mold, and then you need to basically, let's just for simple words, we need to close it. So we need to attach the upper and the mold and the sole.

Speaker: So in a Blake stitch shoe, They wrap the leather around the mold and they put the sole on and they give it one stitch around, Blake stitch. Shoes done, shoes made, it's very simple.

Speaker: It's often with a thin sole, very flexible, but it's a very simple construction. Now with Gujar welted, so I think many people don't actually understand what Goodyear is. welting is actually a machine that does the welting invented by, um believe it was Charles Goodyear, who also did the tires. Right. Invented the machine to make the welt on a pair of shoes, to stitch the welt.

Speaker: to the upper and the insole. And so in a welted shoe, you got the upper. You wrap it around the mold, the insoles on the bottom, and then instead of putting the sole on, you first put a strip of leather another finer strip of leather, and you stitch that to the upper and the insole.

Speaker: The insole is where your feet are touching, the leather on the on the on the inside of the shoe. And once you have the welts on, you then put the sole and you stitch the sole to the welt.

Speaker: And that's where you see this stitching here. And so you have a dual bond. And that dual bond allows for the sole to be easily replaced. It also creates a a point of, ah kind of like a ah point where it's harder for water to get into the insole. Yeah, it's like ah an extra layer of protection.

Speaker: And at the same time, you just have more material from between your sole and your foot. And because you can easily replace this, it tends to last longer because it's not, you know, with a Blake stitch shoe, few people that replace Blake stitch, and once you go through that sole, it's almost toast shoe.

Speaker: And so with welted, you can just constantly keep re-souling. As long as your welt stays intact, you just rip off the sole and put a new one. And then hand-welted is the replacing of the Goodyear machine and doing it all by hand.

Speaker: Right. yeah And you're saying where we have come to a point now that it seems like particularly overseas, they're doing this at an amazing cost, which leads to high competition for someone like you.

Speaker: Exactly. Yeah, in Asia where, you know, it's not a secret, wages are lower, cost of living is lower, they can get... quality craftsman to do it all by hand and often charge less than a European machine-made shoe.

Speaker: You're in the game. You have a brand. How does that make you feel? ah You know what? I've... it doesn't bother me because i've never been one to sulk over what somebody else is doing i try to just do the best that i can do and i offer my what makes me special and i try to do that as much as i can and i focus on that so you know i can easily say nobody does the design that i do and most people don't dare to copy it because In reality, I think it's scary to offer two-tone shoes and think they're going to sell off the shelf like a regular black shoe would.

Speaker: And so some might say, well, that's a crazy business idea because, you know, in in business, you want to make a profit. And the way you make profit is through high sell rates. But it's a lot harder to sell a two-tone extravagant shoe than it is a black Oxford.

Speaker: Sure. Because they're more daring and a lot of people don't have the gumption to kind of mimic that. They make safe shoes because safe shoes are easy to sell. So I don't really worry about my competition because really nobody is copying what I do.

Speaker: you know, people are seeking hand-wilted shoe for $400, I'm never going to offer that. So I don't think, I don't worry about that because I can never be what they want. You know, if they're looking in the coolest design, then I can try to offer that. You know, and I make a good value for money for a European-made shoe. And that's why focus on good customer service. And I don't worry about what other competitors are doing. In fact, I promote them all on my Shoe Snob blog. Yes, I've seen that. At the end of the day, there's enough people for us for us all to eat.

Speaker: And we just got to focus on doing the best we can. In reality, if we all helped each other, we'd all be we'd we'd grow the industry. So my goal is really not to worry about those guys still in a shoe customer. It's me converting a sneaker wear into a dress shoe wear. So that's what I focus on.

Speaker: That's a good point. More men than ever before are wearing sneakers. They're wearing sneakers with suits. We both have suits on for the listening audience.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: How do you feel, to me in my mind, I often tell people, so my late grandfather, classic menswear guy, right? And to me, I have felt that classic menswear has made a so slow decline, particularly in terms of suits, from the 50s till now.

Speaker: I feel also parallel to that would be the wearing of shoes. That not as many men wear a classic shoe or a boot. the way they did back in the day.

Speaker: Is that also a a competitive you know issue and force? Yeah, it's definitely it's definitely challenging when your customer base kind of shrinks and at the same time there's more shoe brands than ever.

Speaker: So there's more competition and less clients. So that's why I try to focus on converting clients as opposed to fighting over the few clients that there still are. um But you know, that's how you diversify.

Speaker: aye I've been offered sneaker range for a long time now, like a classic sneaker range, not like a Nike type sneaker range. And i always feel like When you look at my bold collection, a lot of guys are afraid to jump right into that if they're new shoes.

Speaker: sure But they'll easily transition from the entry point line to that collection. But now I'm starting to see you guys will transition from the sneakers to the entry point line. So it's now I just have like one more barrier to jump, but at least if I can get them into a classic sneaker, leather sneaker that's, you know, classic by nature.

Speaker: They then start thinking about, oh, well, let me try suede loafer. And once they get into that suede loafer, the let me try one of these you know two-tone shoes. And so, you know, I look at everything as a long game. You know, I'm not worried, okay, every guy's wearing sneakers, but you know what?

Speaker: lot of guys grow up. And they start to realize what's what's funny is like more than ever, and and and I don't know where it comes from, but I've had guys that are retiring and they're like, I've been wearing sneakers my whole life and I want to get into dress shoes. And they start at our brand.

Speaker: And I was like, it's weird. These guys are like 60 years old. they're now getting into dress shoes and they're going gung ho with their retirement money. I was like, yeah, great. It works for me. You know?

Speaker: And it's not the first time. it's And I'm also finding guys that are going from designer brands to classic shoes. I got a guy who just called me the other day, and he's like, yeah, I got Gucci this, Tugs that, Ferragamo this.

Speaker: But now he's coming to, you know, little old Jay Fitzpatrick looking to get a more classic shoe. So I just think ah it's just about long-term education.

Speaker: And so everything goes in trends. This all change eventually. I don't know when, but five, 10 years, it won't be the same. ah Maybe we won't even be wearing Nike's or dress shoes. Who knows what it'll be.

Speaker: but I try not to focus too much on the things that appear scary in the moment and I just try to focus on continuing to do the best I can at educating and offering a cool product and great service and hopefully that conveys into word of mouth and people coming to the brand.

Speaker: A few years ago you made a choice, you know you were talking about transitions. how you're getting men now who maybe never wore shoes or not consistently, all of sudden they're coming to you and then your value ladder, they move with it.

Speaker: But a few years ago, you made a choice to create the JF line. Would you like to talk about that a little bit? Yeah. Again, the Jay Fitzpatrick line, the line that I founded the brand with, the line that really is about offering welted shoes with a very strong personality twist, my personality, ah can be a hard pill to swallow for somebody new into shoes.

Speaker: The designs are... can be seen as extravagant to somebody not used to dress shoes. They can be seen as scary because, you know, for example, ah a black shoe with a red saddle strap, you know, it's like that's a bold shoe for the average guy.

Speaker: They look at that and no way I could wear that. And so I knew that I needed to offer something more appealing to a newbie, so to speak. A guy getting out of college, getting into his first job, can't jump straight into a $500 shoe, needs something classic, doesn't want to spend a ton of money.

Speaker: and And it'll be a nice transition piece for him because, again, once a guy just gets into that world, He then goes back home, he starts Googling, he starts searching, he starts getting curious, he starts reading, he starts studying, he starts seeing other guys wearing cool shoes and then they graduate to that line.

Speaker: So again, it's all this long term and I knew I needed that. I needed that step in, that step to the Boulder line at the same time. uh i was reading you know a lot of guys would be like uh other than you know mirman what do i buy at a low price point nobody there was no other competition mirman in the sense that guys that wanted to spend under 300 didn't really and didn't really want to go buy from asia so to speak and a lot of the asian brands weren't even really around five or six years ago or whatever they've been popping up on the scene recently

Speaker: A lot of guys would be like, where do I go? Just Allen Edmonds, but even Allen Edmonds was a higher price point. um There's a lot of obscure European brands that the average guy didn't know about. So they were like, where do I go? There's just Meerman. Outside of Meerman, I got to jump up to double the price.

Speaker: And so I saw that and I was like, well, let me try to offer a line that's, you know, I can't make it as cheap as Meerman. There's no way. Yeah. But let me try to offer something not double, but maybe $100 more that they could have another option for. And then get them slowly into the Jay Fitzpatrick side.

Speaker: So I've been holding up the shoe as you brought it up as an example. Yeah. And i mean, you're right. It's a bold, it's a bold take on a classic shoe.

Speaker: What led you to make that type of decision when you created the overall brand? Hey, these are classics. Here's my spin. You know, I grew up in a...

Speaker: a very urban culture where when I was young, you matched. And you matched, you know, every color in your hat, you matched to the colors in your shoes and the colors in your shirt.

Speaker: And they were often bold colors. You know you don't match as black. It's easy to wear black as black. But you know if you had, you think of baseball caps and the colors in those, and then you had to wear the colors in the shoes.

Speaker: So I grew up wearing colorful stuff, obviously not in the dress world, in the you know young urban style of sneakers and hats and t-shirts to match.

Speaker: And so I'd always liked colorful stuff to a degree. When I started working at Nordstrom, I was wearing banana yellow Prada loafers and blue paint and Dolce Gabbana loafers. And so I was always kind of bold. And then when you wear that stuff, people react.

Speaker: People would stop in the street and say, wow, i like those shoes. Those are cool. you know you know But when you just wore two classic, nobody stopped to notice. Nobody paid attention.

Speaker: And so when I went to learn shoemaking in Italy by Stefano Bemer, his kind of ethos was the same. He had very beautiful classic shoes, but he had a very strong personality twist to all of them.

Speaker: And so my goal was to have my own company, you know, and you got to think what kind of company do you want to start? I was always into dressing. and I always loved shoes. Shoes were my first passion in the wardrobe.

Speaker: um you know Growing up in America, you're probably from my same era. If you weren't wearing cool shoes, you couldn't be part of the cool crowd. And that influences you when you're young. You want to have that latest Nike.

Speaker: Absolutely. Because you wouldn't be nobody without it. I have talked about that. And so I don't know what it's like today. I don't think so, because I see people now wearing the shoes that you would have been clowned on wearing when we were in our generation.

Speaker: You never be caught dead in the Asics running shoe. Oh, my God. You know, you'd have been laughed out of the building. right And so. And so, you know, but then I would, you know as I got older, left high school, worked at Nordstrom, went university, I started, I wanted to dress more maturely, more professionally.

Speaker: and And would just look, you know, coming from Seattle, guys are wearing New Balances with their suits. And i was just like, so embarrassing. And we were just getting clowned on by Europeans. I would read the magazine. i would buy the European magazines, the ones that cost like triple the price. I would buy those and I would read those and I would see all the beautiful stuff available in Europe.

Speaker: I would see them talking bad about American style. would then look at American magazine and see the way the men were dressed. And then I would look at what we had on offer. I was like, there's a huge divide between what they wear and have in Europe and what we wear and have in the U.S. And I wanted to change that.

Speaker: I said, it's not that we don't have style. It's that... We don't have good information because these magazines are just, America's all about capitalism. So we've been just peddling whoever's paying us the most. We're not peddling the best advice in the big, you know, GQ magazine. They're peddling who's ever given them the most advertising money.

Speaker: um So I would see this the the clothes they were putting the models together with, just terrible shoes, terrible clothes. And then I would read the European magazines, which on the contrary, more about the style. A lot of that's changed now. Everybody's just peddling whoever. Everybody's pulling for the money. Ralph Lauren is the biggest advertiser in every single magazine in the world.

Speaker: um And I would see what we had on offer it was just terrible stuff. And I realized the department stores only bought safe. They didn't buy, they never took a chance on a small shoemaker that had amazing product. They would go to the big guy that could offer them the cheapest price and the safest product.

Speaker: And I said, this is the we we we can't do better if we don't have access to better. And again, this is before globalization, before Instagram. you if you If you weren't rich enough to just hop on a plane and fly to London to buy shoes on German Street, you were subject to what you had at your local department store.

Speaker: Sure. And that was severely lacking, in my opinion. So I wanted to change that. And I said, i'm going to start a shoe line. And I chose the welted industry, which I knew was a challenging one. So I knew that in order to to make it, I had to had to show the future clients I was a serious person.

Speaker: I mean... With all due respect, any non-American looking at some American kid coming out with a shoe brand on this thing would just laugh at you if you had no real background. Right. Pedigree. So said, I knew I needed to have something that i that showed them I knew what i was doing and talking about.

Speaker: So I said, everything I need to learn there is about shoes and shoemaking. I can't have somebody making me look like a fool and pulling my card and not being able to respond because then I'd be looked at as a joke.

Speaker: So I said, let me go learn how to make shoes so I know the ba the foundation of shoes in general. And then after I do that, let me go figure out about manufacturing, about design, about last making, about this, about that, about everything that I could.

Speaker: So I could become essentially an expert. That was the goal, to then be able to start a line and be like, well, he might be young, but he's already done all of that. So you put in the time, you put in the work.

Speaker: Again, you wanted the pedigree. Yeah, I needed to because my competitors at the time were crock and carmage, 100-year-old brands. started the brand like 28 years old. So it's like, you know, was young. it's like, why should shoes from a 28-year-old, you know? eight years old so it's like yeah was young and it's like why why should we buy shoes from a twenty eight year old know Well, I'm going to give a personal story about this, as I'm sure you recollect.

Speaker: So I think as I was toying with the idea to launch my brand, to launch my service, a co-worker at the time, big shout out to Paul Buttonhaar, took me to the Style Forum event.

Speaker: And... I think maybe they had it for a bunch of years. I think I went two years. And then I i think the second time I went, they didn't do it anymore. And I met you.

Speaker: at one of those events in the Garment District. right I remember that. At that penthouse. yeah And you were there, you had your table. i thennna I've never shared this with you. We've known each other a long time, and it took all took a bunch of years to do this. And I'm so happy to do it.

Speaker: I thought at the time that you were English. I totally did. I probably had a little twang. You had a little lint. And you speak soft. So I was...

Speaker: Oh, okay. And then, you know, saw the name and you were breaking things down. And I didn't purchase, but I was very intrigued by you and interested in your story. And I was like, oh, okay. And I remember, you know, shook your hand. like, wow, thank you so much for, because you really,

Speaker: It's what you said earlier. i think your task was anyone who stopped by, it wasn't just telling about your story. It was explaining about why you had these shoes and the value of the shoes.

Speaker: So, and now, you know, here we go we are. Yeah, we are. You grew up on me, bro. There we

Speaker: All right, so you said something earlier. i want to revisit it. You said no one is doing what I'm doing. I'm making bold choices. No one is stepping to me.

Speaker: I'm paraphrasing. know. I'm sorry. Nobody's doing shoes like me. There are other bold shoemakers. but they have their own unique styles. you know Norman Valalta, for example, makes bold shoes in his own way.

Speaker: you know He has his ideas, he's a great artist, and he puts them together with his mentality, but he's not doing Button boots. So, you know, we we fit into different aspects of the bold shoemakers.

Speaker: Tons of bold shoemakers in France that they just live on colors and two tones and etc. But we all kind of have our little sectors within that.

Speaker: You know, I do button boots. Nobody else does button boots. Norman kind of created the trend of putting dress shoes with commando soles. Now a lot of people are doing that, but I remember Norman being among the first in this industry.

Speaker: Italian shoemakers have been doing this for years, but it wasn't a thing. Norman started doing on some beautiful tassel loafers, and that was different at the time. Yeah. Years ago with patina on them. It's like nobody had done that.

Speaker: So in the sense that What I don't worry about my competition is because nobody's doing the things I'm doing. You know, I take certain models and I run with them.

Speaker: I do a lot of butterfly loafers. Not a lot of brands do the butterfly loafers. They do penny loafers or tassel loafers. I do button boots. i do hiking models, an interpretation of the alpine style.

Speaker: There are some of those around, but again, we all have our little twists on them. So... Not that I'm the only bold shoemaker, no, there's other bold shoemakers for sure. But, you know, again, i think we all, i think we all, we all know each other first and foremost. I think we all respect each other and our little side of the design portion and we try not to step on each other's toes.

Speaker: When a client decides to ultimately step up and do a made-to-order purchase, what is that what does that provide for that type of individual? you know Again, if we talk about your ladder. Let's say they start with the JF line, then they graduate.

Speaker: And then let's say, to me, two things. Made to order and your patina you know option. What does that mean for a potential client who's listening and watching?

Speaker: Yeah, I mean, in made to order and patina is you're really just being able to fulfill exact ideas you have and want to achieve that you can't find on a ready-made basis. So when you start at JF, chances are you're getting a very basic classic shoe.

Speaker: And you graduated to J. Fitzpatrick and you're probably getting something a little bit more bold and unique. Now then, when you go to made to order, it's because probably you want to get a green shoe or a two-tone shoe. And I don't have the exact makeup as a ready-made option, but that's what you want. Maybe you want to change the sole. Maybe you want to change the shape.

Speaker: And then when you go into patina, then you're really going for, you know, all out I was going to say all out. Now you want multi-colors blended together in one shoe. And so it's really just, you know,

Speaker: You go up the ladder of detail, really. Detail mainly in design and and color options. Starts as basic, J Fitzpatrick gets a little bolder, May Chorter you start to be able to choose your boldness, and then patina's like the ultimate of it.

Speaker: I want to go back to the boots. I'm big research guy. i have been told you're the only American brand that does a button boot. Is that the case?

Speaker: Yes. Yes. At the time when I launched them, there's only three brands in the world that offered them. Really? Yeah, there Mii, Aubercy, sorry, there was four, but there was four.

Speaker: Mii, Aubercy, Enzo Bonafe, and a Japanese brand called Perfetto that you could only get in Japan. So, and for a brief time, they were sold in Paris, but that was only very brief.

Speaker: Now there's a few people that have offered some, but again, i think people try to do these things and they realize how hard it is and then they take it out of their collection because, you know, I sell them because I made a name selling them and then so people find us and come to us. I've been copied by tons of like Pakistani Indian companies that sell them on eBay as replicas and all of that. And then people learn the hard way when they buy those.

Speaker: But I think you know it takes confidence and investment to sell a button boot. and And so I just, a lot of people don't try to mimic it. So yeah, we're the only brand in all of the Americas, I think, that offer button boots. You can find a couple in Europe and that's about it Why did you choose to want to make a button boot?

Speaker: I was always fascinated with the the idea of it. I loved how they dressed in the Victorian era. You know, that was for me the pinnacle of menswear. Dan Dillard? was like, you know, they were all so sharp.

Speaker: And, uh... And ah like challenges, you know? Life is not meant to just kind of be in a straight line. I like to do things that are difficult and almost like test myself, see if I can pull it off. I understand that. So I thought, man, nobody's offering these and the people that are very difficult to get. let me see if I can modernize the button boot.

Speaker: I think to a degree I have, obviously it's... I'm still a small brand in a big world, but I've sold thousands and thousands of button boots. So that's thousands and thousands of people wearing button boots.

Speaker: Can you describe ah customer that buys a button boot? Not really. um I've sold them to 20-year-olds up to 70-year-olds. Okay. Whoa! Everything in between. Really?

Speaker: it's not It's not, there's no specific guy or type. I've even sold them to ladies. So... I think somebody that just appreciates something unique.

Speaker: I think, you know, a lot of people look to achieve something that nobody else has, and the button boot's an easy option for that. In most people's circles, you're not going to find the person you know that has one. um And, yeah, I've sold them to all kinds, all kinds.

Speaker: Well, ladies and gentlemen who are listening, I have this one in my hand. It's a beautiful purple suede. I'm totally biased, because this is my brand color. I mean, along with this leather and the French toe and the detailing.

Speaker: I'm not saying I'm that guy, but I'm saying right now, i'm like, if I had a black tie event or if I was getting married, not happening, ladies. um I would see myself doing this. And you'd be the slickest guy in the room. Well, yeah, I'm already pretty slick. So i would just be adding on to the slickness.

Speaker: You also said this is hard to make. Why is this hard to make? I mean, it's not, it's not super hard to make. Oh, did I misunderstand you? It might've been hard to sell.

Speaker: hard to sell, hard to replicate because I think, I mean, it might be challenging to make. I remember when I first went to my factory and i was like, I want to do button boots. and they're like, we can't make them. They told you no.

Speaker: I did my research. They told you no. Yeah. And I said, yes, you can. And they like, no, we can't. And so I always do this where I, you know, i let somebody have their opinion and then I'm like, okay, I'll revisit it.

Speaker: And so then some time goes by and I said, okay, I want to do button boots. and they're like, we can't make it. I said, well, it's funny because if that brand can make it, then so can you. It's not impossible, right?

Speaker: Well, no, it's not impossible. Oh, okay, so make it. Okay, we'll try. And then of course I made it. I'm like, I guess you could in the end, right? You know? So it's that it's cumbersome.

Speaker: And so a lot of factories, they don't like cumbersome. The factory likes ah a four-piece cap toe, the easiest shoe to make. That's why they want to make shoes without having to think. This causes you to think. so Yeah, it's, like I said, I mean, you know I've never said to you, oh my gosh, this is really, you know, I always look at them and go, but the purple. Yeah, gives you a new perspective. New perspective.

Speaker: And more to my point about when and I wore bold shoes, if that was all black, you wouldn't think twice. No, I would not. I would not. And I remember, and don't know if you still make that style of button boot.

Speaker: I remember you used to have like a like a herringbone wool. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still. Okay. Still do those. Still have those available made to order. Okay. This is a very basic question for you, but it's something I've never thought of asking because I've never had this type of opportunity and access.

Speaker: Why do you decide to leave a model behind, so to speak? I have these Issaquahs, which for people who aren't seeing, knowing, listening, this is a string tie loafer.

Speaker: It's a French toe. I really like it, right? And obviously wore it today in tribute. But if I recall correctly, this is you've moved on from this. Yeah. Which is one of my my more regrets because I love that model.

Speaker: Mainly I move on from a model because lack of sales. But that was not the case for this. So what was the case for this? Well... You're gonna understand as soon as I tell you. You see how the knot on the right shoe is not tight?

Speaker: Yes. How many times have you had to re-tie that knot? I don't wear shoes a lot, meaning I have a really big rotation. But a few times, not a hundred times, but a few, yes.

Speaker: So the braided string is hard to make a tight bow. Is that because it's waxed? It's because it's thick leather and it does, yeah, it's not waxed. It doesn't hold because of the thickness and it's braided. It's not meant to be really tied. That's a, it's a shoemaking thing.

Speaker: And so, um if it was s suede, it holds better. But in leather, it the the bow, see how it's loose? Yeah, I know. I tightened it this morning before I left. That side's perfect.

Speaker: So, The problem was guys would buy the shoe. It would come undone. And then they'd complain to me. And in extreme circumstances, the guys would pull it like they're unbreakable and break the thing. And then blame me. And it's like, dude, they're not shoelaces. Right, right, right, right, right. It's an adornment.

Speaker: And I got tired of just having to be like. And they just automatically blame the shoemaker. It's like the staple. I did something wrong, but let me blame you. And I just said forget it, I can't keep having this problem, I can't keep writing to people explaining, look, don't pull them that way, you gotta learn how to tie a knot by just pulling the knot.

Speaker: And it just became too much, and I just said forget it, I'm just gonna turn these into regular tassel loafers. And it's a shame because I love that shirt. I do too. That's the reason why I bought it. It's 10 times more special than the plain tassel version. But, you know, and i always thought maybe I can, you know, how do you keep that bow? What, I super glue it together? It's like, how do you keep it tight on a production level? And it's very challenging. You either stick like a pin, super glue it. don't know, but it just became too much. And I thought, you know, maybe I'll revisit it in the future. But...

Speaker: It just became yeah more than I could handle with too many people complaining. as I can't deal with that. Right. I had to retire. I had to swap it. ah Well, i'm I'm glad now. I feel like.

Speaker: You got unique piece now. Yeah. Well, I am a unique piece. So. Fitting. What is Museum Calf? You used to, and would see that as a description for your shoes.

Speaker: Museum Calf is, it was. And you moved on from that too. I'm moving on, yeah. Very strong soon, I will no longer offer it on ready-made shoes.

Speaker: Museum Calf was a term coined by John Lobb. So the actual, name for it in the tannery is called radica and it was created by chair an italian tannery and what they did was find a way to make a shoe look patina or antique but in the tanning process as opposed to by a patina artist so they they managed to

Speaker: make on a production level patina looking style shoes. Wow. And so John Lobb was like the first to really popularize that and they called it museum cap.

Speaker: I presume something that would have naturally aged in a museum and that's why they probably called it that. That's slick. Natural patina is how something ages through light. light light Yeah, life, light and time. It creates its own unique look.

Speaker: And so John Law popularized it and then more tanneries started copying it and then more brands started buying it. And yeah, that's what's the museum, Cap.

Speaker: And why are you moving on from it? There are a lot has changed since COVID and there are only about three or four reputable tanneries that make it.

Speaker: There's really only two in my mind and then there's two that I don't really care for. um One, my factory really no longer has a relationship with.

Speaker: And the other, which I actually prefer, They're just too small and they take way too long to produce. And because of COVID, payment structures changed. Tanneries now want upfront payments.

Speaker: They don't hold a stock. So once you pay them, they make your stock. However, that can take four or five months and then shoe product. It's like an eight month process just to get the shoes now. I said, it's too much. So I just said, it's too many headaches involved with museum calf.

Speaker: I tried out the other tanneries. didn't like the quality. So I just said, you know, forget this. i I'm through with it. What is the normal turnaround for a shoe being made? I mean, a standard shoe, meaning not made to order.

Speaker: I mean, made to order and a standard shoe is really the same, at least at my factory. It should be different, but it's the way it goes. Normal European production can be anywhere from four to six months.

Speaker: wow Some smarter factories will do made to orders faster in you know eight to 10 weeks. I can't convince my factory to make that switch. They're just like, no. Production times are the same no matter what it is. They're big.

Speaker: You see, the bigger you are, the more you hate made to order because it doesn't flow in your production. More steps. Yeah, more steps, more you know, more steps equals less efficiency. Right.

Speaker: And, you know, their ideal dream order is a thousand pair of black shoes in the same model. Right. Give me that and they're happy. Right. You know, give me 20 made to orders, they're like, boom. Right.

Speaker: So... But tanneries that are wising up to the future have their own little maid tour departments and then, you know, push it through a different way. Sadly, I haven't convinced my factory of the importance of that yet. Hopefully they'll wise up soon.

Speaker: You've made so many different styles. So this going to be a tough question. What's your favorite tanneries? What's your least favorite of all the experiences, all the things you've tried, messed around with, worked, didn't work?

Speaker: I mean, my favorite is the saddle shoe on the table. And why is that? It holds the most emotional value. It's the one that really captured me when I was at... So that shoes, that specific shoe on the table that you're probably looking at, I made by hands. And that pattern is Stefano Bemer's. So I made that when I was apprenticing.

Speaker: And then I made my own version in Ready to Wear, changing the lines and whatnot. So that shoe really influenced me as a designer and I felt like it captured me as a person and my personality.

Speaker: So it's always held a special place. I always love the saddle strap. I love it as well for design purposes, the breakup of three pieces. So you can have a back piece and a front piece with one material and the saddle as a contrasting material. So if to me, it's the perfect pattern for tones.

Speaker: um My favorite shoe that I wear the most is the butterfly loafer. Yeah, we didn't get to, we didn't have one, so i didn't want to throw it in the mix. I'm like, keep your foot there said so they can shoot it. The butterfly loafer, I wear more than any other shoe.

Speaker: Yeah, I've kind of known, I mean, and don't check you like that all the time, but yeah, you do seem to lean towards that. I think it might sound crazy, but I probably have around 30 butterfly loafers, just as in that model.

Speaker: 30 color variations. Oh my God. Yeah. That's my go-to. All right, what was something that you tried that really just didn't work? You were like, i mean or the you know the market didn't gravitate towards it? Let me think.

Speaker: It's weird because throughout my history as a brand, I've had like the hardest time. It's kind of changing, but in the beginning, had the hardest time selling like just classic brown suede shoes, which is crazy. Brown suede shoes? yeah, yeah. I have two pairs of brown suede shoes. and and But I think, and I and i was always asking. Wouldn't have a boot in a shoe. And I had a really hard time selling chakas.

Speaker: Chakas? All of this only made sense when I introduced the JF line. Yeah. So as a J. Fitzpatrick only brand prior to the JF's existence, I couldn't sell chakas and brown suede shoes to sell my life.

Speaker: And I started to just like, it's like, these are two very common models. yeah So then I introduced the JF line, I started selling brown suede and chakas. And I realized first and foremost,

Speaker: Every brand in the world has chukkas and brown suede boots. yes Guys didn't come to Jay Fitzpatrick line for those two common things.

Speaker: Guys came for two tones, button boots, butterfly loafers, etc. enters the JF line, saw a brown suede all day, and my chukka boots are among the most popular.

Speaker: So I realized at the same time, those models are going to newbies, guys that don't have their bases all filled yet. Right, the foundation. And also guys that don't want to spend a ton of money on a basic, common shoe.

Speaker: So I was always baffled by that in the beginning, but then I finally understood why. So the market that rejected it when I was only a bold brand. But now that I offer a non-bold lower price point, now I sell those two things.

Speaker: So bizarre. But if I introduce them into the J. Fitzpatrick line, they won't sell. And I tested this with my tassel loafers too. I introduced tassel loafers on both lines.

Speaker: I nearly sold out of all of my shoes in all of the colors in the JF line while I barely sold any in the JF Fitzpatrick line. So again, I started to understand why people gravitate towards certain models in different lines and price points. so Kudos to you, but utterly fascinating, right? Yeah.

Speaker: All right, lightning round. Why is fashion important? ah I mean, i would say and don't like the word fashion, but I think style is important because I think it's a form of, you know, not only self-respect, but community respect. I think the way you...

Speaker: portray yourself as important. Unfortunately, we are all ego creatures and we all judge people by first appearances. It's the way we are as human beings. Exactly. And I think the more you convey that you're a respectable human being, the better for society as a whole.

Speaker: um I think also you feel better when when you're when you're stylish, you feel better. You're never going to be super motivated in sweatpants and running shoes and a t-shirt. I totally agree. You're not in the mindset. I bad intern is wearing that. well Right now they're doing work that requires comfort, so to speak. But, you know, if you're in the mindset of being business-minded, you need to match that and your style as well. You know, business is not sweatpants.

Speaker: um So I think style is important. I think it it affects us psychologically that most people just don't understand. they They'll feel it, but they can't realize that it's happening. Right. They can't articulate it. Yeah.

Speaker: So... But know, right now the whole world's sold on comfort and being you and da-da-da-da-da and all this other stuff. but People don't understand, I explain this to potential clients, I am amazingly comfortable right now yeah in my suit. Like, the fact that people now are making some type of equivalence that this means you're uncomfortable.

Speaker: um Because they don't know what real fit is.

Speaker: And, you know, when I travel, I don't and i never travel in sweatpants and athletic shoes and a shirt. I wear a jacket, a button-up. I might wear jeans because I love jeans. But I'll wear my butterfly loafers.

Speaker: And you know what? I smooth right through immigration. You know? But, so, yeah. What difference has fashion made in your life? Uh...

Speaker: I mean, i don't know. Other than, like I said, you know bombing through immigration, and don't know if it makes a huge difference because I've always been in that. So it's hard it's never like I wasn't in that.

Speaker: So I don't know what it's like. For example, we launched a store right when COVID hit. So I don't know a New York prior to COVID. I don't know a world. in my own existence prior to being stylish, because I always tried to achieve that since, you know, I was seven or 10 whatever.

Speaker: Prior to that, you didn't think about those types of things. So i don't I don't really know how it's affected my life because it's always been there in my life. So I don't know the opposite of that.

Speaker: That's fair. What's the top fashion tip you would give the everyday man so he could look his best?

Speaker: um could look his best i mean i think guys just have to not be afraid to try again i think just start subtle it's a lot of times like my wife's like what should I wear I'm like It's not that difficult. You can still look good in some jeans and a shirt and nice shoes.

Speaker: When you're trying to overdo it, you often mess yourself up and then you just don't start because you're already psyching yourself out. So it's like start slow, wear something that looks good, feels good, but don't try to overdo it because then you might not even start because you're like, oh, this is too much.

Speaker: And so a lot of times for me, I look at guys that look great. It can just be, again, a pair of jeans. It doesn't have to be slacks all day long. Start with basics.

Speaker: You move from there, you'll feel good because you'll look good. and And it doesn't have to be a suit and a pocket square. Right, no. It doesn't have to be that. It can be that. Right. But it doesn't have to be that. Exactly. And that's the problem. And if they feel like, oh, it has to be that, then they don't even try. Right. Yeah. And that's the problem. They psych themselves out. Yeah. they can't They can't even get out the gate. Yeah.

Speaker: This is what I ask all of my guests, Justin. What does the phrase, always be fly, mean to you? Always be fly. I think it's self-explanatory. I agree, but... It means, you know, always attempting to look your best. Again, i think that dressing nice is, most importantly, ah manner of not only self-respect, but respect for others. So I always try to be fly just for that. You know, I care about how I portray myself, not because I'm worried about what other people think, but I see it as a side of respect.

Speaker: And so I'm always trying to be fly, even if it's you know subtle flyness. Nothing crazy, but always you know iron my clothes, keeping my stuff put together, well put together. And again, i think it all boils down to respect and feeling good you know subconsciously without knowing it.

Speaker: Justin, this was years in the making. And I really felt like they Yes, sir. Really proud to represent the brand. As you know, I've brought clients here, and I'm actually bringing a client here right after we do this.

Speaker: Sounds like plan. So I really appreciate time. Thank you, likewise. Appreciate it. So you learned from Justin the difference between a Blake stitch shoe and a Goodyear welted shoe.

Speaker: You also learn how competitive the marketplace is. You can find Justin Fitzpatrick on Instagram at jfitzpatrickfootwear or theshoesnobofficial or on web at jfitzpatrickfootwear.com or theshoesnobblog.

Speaker: If you want to level up your shoe game, then let's make it happen. Take initiative and become fashion confident in 30 days. All you have to do is email me at reg at nyfashiongeek.com for a consultation.

Speaker: sleep Well, that's a wrap. Thank you so much for listening. We hope you had fun and are down for another one. Please tell a friend who could use some fashion help about the podcast or share an episode with them directly. If you enjoy the show, please give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker: Lastly, if you constantly struggle putting an outfit together and are looking to turn that confusion into confidence, i' would love to talk about how we can improve with Check me out at nyfashiongeek.com and email me at reg at nyfashiongeek.com for a consultation.

Speaker: A special shout goes for our producer search and everyone down with the Fashion podcast. If you have a story suggestion, you can email me at podcast at nyfashiongeek.com or hit me up on the Insta at New York Fashion Geek.

Speaker: Well, that's a wrap. To my team of interns, past and present, who have helped make the Fashion Geek Podcast what it is today, I thank Always be fly.