Transcript
Speaker: My name is Chris Mitchell and welcome to another episode of Balancing the Future. And today I am here with Blake Carroll. Blake's not going to say he's a superstar expert when it comes to the CPA exam, but he is a CPA exam coach.
Speaker: And my friends, that is very important for our profession. And obviously, I thank him for all of his service in that area. But we're going to have some really good conversation about what it takes to be successful as it relates to the exam.
Speaker: Now, I took the exam many moons ago. I mean, a long time ago. So the process in which I went through, it was just night and day compared to what ah newer staff are experiencing today. So we're going to talk through all the ins and the outs and what's going on with that. But Blake, before I say another word, I will shut it down. Please expand on your background and share more with the audience.
Speaker: Yes, thanks for having me. Definitely excited to be here. So a bit of my history, how I got to where I am. So I'm from the Raleigh, North Carolina area, born and raised, went UNC Chapel Hill for undergrad and grad school, kind of backed my way into accounting, to be honest, by trying finance and then marketing and not enjoying those.
Speaker: I tried audit and didn't really enjoy that, to be honest, and then tried tax and thought, OK, I like this the most out of what I've tried so far. So went that route out of the Mac program. started working with pwc and the raleigh office in their federal tax practice stayed in that group for five years and was able to make manager and get a lot of good experience in client service there then i moved into tax technology for one year which was a very different role um but ah a good experience just to try something new And then after that year, I moved into deployment for three years, which is more of an internal talent, HR type role, helping with scheduling, career development, things like of that nature, which was a very, very great job. oh I had a great team, really enjoyed my time there.
Speaker: And then ah a couple a few years ago, i really discovered a passion for helping candidates pass the CPA exam because as anybody who's taken it knows, it is so difficult. You know, one of the toughest, probably the toughest test you'll ever take, one of the biggest projects you'll work toward. And it's it's difficult enough on your on your own. So I think just having Having someone there who can help candidates learn from other people's mistakes so they don't have to figure it all out themselves, I think it can definitely make a big difference in people's journey.
Speaker: And ah so that that is really my passion. And starting to coach candidates is is um you know a big focus of mine. You I think about the CPA exam, I know it has morphed and it has changed. And there's all kind of legislation out there to kind of tweak things quite a bit to make it fit better as relates to the nature of the business today.
Speaker: What are your thoughts as it relates to the exam? Because I know it has changed. But what can you share that I don't already know? I don't know very much, so don't give me too many kudos. But what can you share as it relates to the exam kind of where it is?
Speaker: The biggest change going on currently is um states moving from the what the number of credits that is necessary to sit for the exam or get licensed. Historically, I think in most jurisdictions, if not all, you needed 150 credit hours. And there was variation amongst the states in terms of what type of credits you needed, accounting or otherwise. But the overall number was 150. However, over the last couple of years,
Speaker: um Many states, I think we're up to a majority now, have either introduced or even passed legislation where instead of 150 credit hours with one year of work experience, there's what they're calling the alternative pathway, which is 120 credit hours and two years of experience. So essentially, instead of needing a fifth year of college, whether it's grad school or otherwise, you just get get it one year of work experience instead. And that is kind of a stand in for the grad school year.
Speaker: um That effort was made to just sort of get more get more candidates into the pipeline. As anybody who pays attention to the industry knows, there's all the conversations around coming shortages due to older generations retiring, due to fewer people entering the profession.
Speaker: And so I think that was generally what was behind what's behind this movement is just wanting more people to take it. And it's certainly a big obstacle for people to go back to school full time for another year and grad school at that just to be able to sit for the exam.
Speaker: So that is the big I think the big change we're going to see from that is, of course, less people with a grad school education, more people with just undergrad taking it who are also probably working full time. So you're going to have you know less students taking it, more full time professionals, um potentially older candidates as well. Maybe people who are several years or even a decade or two into their accounting career, they don't have their their CPA credential, but they never really thought it was an option for them because it just wasn't feasible to go back to school. But they may think, hey, you know, I still have my 120 from undergrad.
Speaker: I've worked in the industry for several years. Maybe, you know, it's not too late. Maybe I'll go back now and try to pass the exam. So it'll be interesting to see. We're still pretty early on in that process.
Speaker: um I don't think it it hasn't been going on long enough to see, um you know, enough data to know how that's going to change things. But it will be interesting to see how scores change, how pass rates change as we start to get more seasoned professionals taking the exam and less people fresh out of grad school relative to what those populations have been in the past.
Speaker: You know, Blake, based on what you just shared, something came to mind. I need you to put that Coach Carroll hat on and help me understand the difficulties that the candidates are facing. Because I know the exam is tough.
Speaker: But what really what difficulties are they they facing? Because it's not what we probably think is happening. It's a lot of other things going on. So if you could elaborate or expand on that, that'd be awesome.
Speaker: Absolutely. So it's easy for you know people in firms to think, hey you know we've given we've we've given our candidates their review course. We covered the costs. They've got the bonus to motivate them. They should be good to go, right? They should be able to pass and get this done. But there is so much to the exam beyond just the content. um I don't think the exam is really a knowledge problem or a technical accounting problem. It's an execution problem because you have to be consistent for so long. You have to learn how to learn. You know you have to study very differently from how you did in college. um A lot of people just really struggle to balance work in the exam, um especially many candidates in the younger generations. that you know This is their first job out of college. they They've never had this experience before of work. you know they have They're dealing with imposter syndrome at work. They want to do well. and They're dealing with the exam at the same time. It's a lot to balance.
Speaker: They're afraid to ask for help from other people. And they're this generation in particular. You know, we can certainly dive deep into how much of an issue comparison is for them and perfectionism. I think comparison and perfectionism affect this generation more than previous ones.
Speaker: And then just dealing with the the inevitable struggles, right? Because most candidates are going to fail at least one section, if not more. And so just how you bounce back from that. So it really is. It's not just can I learn this material? Because, you know, we we have a ton of candidates who are absolutely smart enough. They're more than capable, but it's just can they overcome all these various obstacles to actually get it done? And I think it's important for, you know, firm leaders, for coworkers, bosses, you know, managers on up to really understand the challenges their people are going through so then they can better support them and help and help get them to the finish line.
Speaker: You know, when I think about failing a part of the exam and it will happen unless you're just incredibly talented and I wasn't. So how do you fail the right way? Because there's an attitude and there's an energy behind it. So I'm just curious as to what your thoughts are. How can I fail and be successful as a release to that?
Speaker: So it's really the story you tell yourself when failure happens. I think many candidates take failure personally. you know they They get that score back where it's you know it says fail. hear Your score report tells you what you did wrong.
Speaker: And it's it's the meaning that they ascribe to it. And I think for many candidates, they haven't really had to deal with failure very often. You do have a lot of people in accounting who are that mindset of, you know, I went for the 4.0 GPA, always was trying to get an a doing doing very well.
Speaker: um holding themselves to that standard of excellence. And so for many people, they have never struggled academically like this before. And i think it's a normal sort of just human response where if you've been successful in an area your whole life and then the first time you aren't, the first time there's something difficult that didn't come right away, you start to think, oh, maybe this isn't for me. I've been able to do this every time before. i can't this time.
Speaker: So perhaps, you know, this isn't the right path. I should do something different. I should look elsewhere. And so you really have to separate that the event of the failure from the person. it's If you if you failed, you know, that is it happened. But it does not mean you're not good enough. It does not mean you're not smart enough. It doesn't mean you can't do it. And so I think just accepting that it's a part of the process and you can when you mentioned failing the right way.
Speaker: People focus so much on the gap between, yeah let's say you got a 70. People focus so much more on those five points they have left that they need to get and they feel terrible about how close a co close they were. They completely ignore everything that came before that. They ignore the 70 points that they've already gotten. And of course, if all you're doing is thinking about where you're coming up short, like if you had a coach or a teacher or a parent who the they only ever pointed out what you were doing wrong, And what you still needed to still needed to work on, they never appreciated how you had grown, how you had learned all the progress you had made. You know, how motivated are you going to be to be around somebody like that? You know, players don't want to play for a coach who does that. Students don't want to learn from a teacher who who you instructs them that that way. So I think that's another huge thing that holds people back is not recognizing while they may not be there yet, they're so much closer than they were when they started.
Speaker: You know, one thing that popped in my head is that leaders today need to understand that these this new group of Gen Zs or whomever is coming up through the ranks are different than we are.
Speaker: Okay. We came up in a time when it was a little different and the pressures were different and we were motivated in a different way. So what can we share with the leaders? Because I want to make sure that they're getting something from this because they are really key to the success for all of the candidates. What are they missing? Because I don't think they really understand the significance of the big difference in the big gap and and the Gen Z's versus maybe their generation.
Speaker: I completely agree that there are some significant generational differences. there's a I know from you know from time, going back ah ah long ways, older generations thinking, you know hey, I was able to do this under these tough circumstances. you know I got it done. Why can't the younger people do what I did? But you do have to recognize how things are different. And I think it's important to frame the whole conversation of generational differences that none of them are better or worse than the other one no There's not one right way. There's not a wrong way. They're just different.
Speaker: And there are there's no perfect you know no perfect characteristics characteristics of a generation. It's all about the trade-offs. So this young generation has challenges, but then they also have strengths as well. I think the biggest one of the biggest things specific to this current younger generation of accountants, to older people who have taken and passed the exam, is social media and comparison.
Speaker: A lot of the firm leaders, back when they took the exam, The only people whose experience they could really hear from and relate to were their coworkers, their classmates, just people within their inner circle that they knew in person.
Speaker: So it was more likely that that you probably would have people who are similar to you at a similar stage in your life, have gone through a similar experience. And that is just not the case nowadays, right? Gen Z's grown up on social media their whole lives. They've been seeing everybody what everybody else is doing. And now for CPA candidates, you don't just see your coworkers in your classmates. You see the thousands of other people taking the exam.
Speaker: Whenever you open your LinkedIn feed around a score release date, all it is is just people announcing that they passed. And especially the people who passed them all in the first attempt or the people who passed them all in four to six months, they're going to let you know about it, which I mean, it's a big deal. Like I'm not trying to diminish those accomplishments, but for the people who struggle,
Speaker: who are actually in the majority of candidates, they feel like they are the only one. They feel like they are the exception when they're really the majority. But they think, you know, everybody else is ahead um because that's that's all that they're seeing. Like, we all know the the stories and the principles that, you know, Social media is comparing your behind the scenes to other people's highlight reel. It's not indicative of what is actually going on.
Speaker: But when candidates go on there, but it still it still affects people. You can't help but compare yourself when you're seeing other people in a journey similar to yours. So I want older leaders to think about, you know try to show a little empathy and think about when you were taking the exam,
Speaker: If you were constantly hearing about everybody else who passed and how much everybody else was crushing it and doing so well, how would that have made you feel? Do you like, do you think you would have dealt with those feelings of doubt, insecurity, you know, thinking you should be further ahead?
Speaker: And so it's tough. It's tough for young candidates when LinkedIn or Reddit or whatever platform they're on is just screaming at them that everybody else is doing better. They're the only one struggling. They're the only one going slow. It's no wonder they feel bad about themselves.
Speaker: And then when you're in that emotional state that that just tons of negative feelings and feeling bad, like how motivated are you to study, right? How much harder is it to show up and be engaged and study after work when you're tired and study when things are busy if if all you're feeling is just that you're doing things wrong. So the comparison is a huge obstacle and something that is that is so different from what older older generations had to deal with. So that's one of the biggest issues unique to this generation.
Speaker: You know, when I think about the candidate, okay, and I'm talking about leaders, we just finished with them and we're not done with them yet. um But when I think about the candidate, how can I be more transparent?
Speaker: What am I sharing with my boss to help them understand my difficulty and my challenges? Because I'm working 60 hours, 70 hours a week, okay? I am nervous.
Speaker: I am afraid. i am paying attention all these platforms out there and success. I want to be promoted. i don't want to fall behind, you know, as it relates to the class that I'm in, because anyone who knows anything about public accounting knows that you can slip into another class because you're not successful.
Speaker: What am I sharing? What am I sharing in full transparency with my boss to get them on my side so I can be more successful? It's a great question. And I think it's important when thinking about how to communicate about your your CPA journey. Both levels in the firms have a responsibility here because you know the candidates need to speak up, but the bosses need to also create an environment where they feel comfortable doing that. um I want to approach it from the from the view of the candidates at first. And the biggest thing is that's another thing with this generation.
Speaker: I think they they are very afraid of um not appearing perfect, of not appearing like they've got it all together. You know, they're crushing it. um The imposter syndrome is a term that's getting thrown around a lot, especially with you know with their first job. They want to prove that they deserve the job. They deserve to be here. um They want to just prove themselves both as a worker and as a candidate, which it's tough to do at the same time. And the big the big thing that rises from that fear of not wanting to appear like you're weak or you're struggling is you don't ask for help.
Speaker: So candidates need to learn that it is OK to ask for help. It is OK to raise your hand and let you know your senior, your manager know, hey, I'm really struggling right now. um There's a lot going on at work. I'm trying to balance the exam.
Speaker: I don't really know the best way to approach these things. um I would love to work together to try to find a solution. That's the biggest thing when you go to your team. Don't just go with problems. Go with potential solutions. It's not just I need to pass this exam. Please help me. It's I need to pass this exam.
Speaker: Maybe this is, you know, can I block this time off every day to study? Can I potentially, you know, log on a little later and stay on a little later so that I can study in the morning? You know, think about what do you what would you like to see from your employer?
Speaker: to help you on your journey and you know bring bring that solution to them. And just know there's there's a fear of judgment. There's a fear of being being embarrassed and thinking, you know, are they going to think less of me? Are they going to regret hiring me? But your your your older co-workers who have taken this exam, they know how tough it is, right? Like they even though their experience was different, they have an appreciation for what you're going through. And so I think they actually will be eager to help you. It's a it's another interesting paradox of how humans work.
Speaker: We love to help other people. Like if someone asks you for a favor and you're able to make a difference in their life, that that feels really good. Like when when you when you help instruct somebody, it's a good feeling. But then at the same time, when it goes the other direction, we think that, like you know, we're being a burden or we should be embarrassed if we need help. And so I would just tell the the younger people that i I think your seniors, your managers, they want you to succeed. They want you to pass the exam. That's the other big thing. You know, candidates want to pass.
Speaker: the The managers want you to pass. The firms want you to pass. Everybody's incentive is aligned that it's good if you pass the exam. So give them the chance to help you. Give them the chance to come up with a solution where you get your work done. You get your work done well, but you're still able to study, too.
Speaker: Now, of course, so that was the responsibility of the the candidates. But leaders, managers, partners, they have a responsibility, too. And you have to create the space where they feel comfortable speaking up.
Speaker: Because it is it is still going to be even with everything I just said, it's still intimidating for a 23 year old or someone in their 20s, first job, fresh out of school. It still is going to be intimidating to raise your hand and say, hey, can you please help me?
Speaker: And if you tell candidates that you want to help them, but then they when they actually do raise their hand, if you don't listen to them, if you if if the client work is always coming first, if you say one thing, but do another thing, You know, you tell them, oh, yeah, we can make it work for you. But then every client need is a fire drill where you have to work late and studying and studying swept aside. Then how they're of course, they're not going to speak up. So make it where they you know actually take action on what they are asking for. Don't just ignore them. Don't say one thing and do another like that would probably be the worst thing is if your your words and actions don't align. If you say you're going to support them, but you don't actually you don't actually follow through.
Speaker: That's a great way to just create disengagement and burnout from your employees. So I really think both both of those levels within the firm really need to come together to make sure that they can help each other. And like said, just keep keep that frame ah across across the whole whole conversation that we want the the same shared outcome of candidates passing the exam.
Speaker: You know, when I think about the solution and I know public accounting, I know how firms work, it's not resources. So when I say it's not about the resources,
Speaker: What's your take on that? Because I think often as leaders, we think it is the resources. and but I'm giving you a bonus. You have access to this information and I've done my part.
Speaker: That's not enough, what you just described. But well what comes to mind when I say it's not about the resources? Because I want the leaders to hear it from you because that's not enough. Yes, absolutely. And I mean, it's it's a great thing that the firms provide courses for people because I mean, the cost is significant.
Speaker: So it's nice that candidates don't have to pay. But all I think and once that that's also when that attitude of, hey, I got it done, why can't they get it done, can come back up again. But there are like it's it's a fact that there are candidates who have the course who pass and candidates who have the course and fail. So therefore, it must be other variables. There are other factors in this journey that determine the outcome. And all the information is there.
Speaker: It's like, you know nowadays, especially with AI, with the Internet, you can find how to do what you need to do. You can find like the contents there. The teaching is there. But I think it's just that appreciation the.
Speaker: They don't need another resource. They need help with prioritizing. They need help with staying accountable. They need help with, um you know, knowing with how to balance the client demands and everything. So I think that that's really what firm leaders need to focus on is that the content is only half of the equation. You know, if if that if that was all it took, then everybody who had, you know, Becker, or everybody who had you world would pass. And don't you know, don't just throw another resource at them. All the resources don't matter in the world if you don't use them.
Speaker: It's like the I think the the courses and the content, it's like the people for their New Year's resolution who buy the Peloton or the yoga class or the new running shoes. You can get all the fitness equipment in the world. But if you don't actually use it consistently, nothing is going to change.
Speaker: And it's it's really easy to think that, hey, with another with another course, with another set of multiple choice questions, with another tutor, this is going to be what unlocks it. But if they're not using what you give them, then, you know, what's the point? And so and I think that also gets to, you know, embrace talking to your employees where when they are having these struggles, like I would I would ask, have you actually gone to them and discussed with them? Like, hey, like, you know, you you have the course. what What difficulties are you running into?
Speaker: I think ah you know that's something to to really think about. Have you asked them specifically what they are dealing with? Because you know if you don't identify the problem, you can't solve it. So have the conversations to figure out you know directly from them, why is it that the course is not working? Why is it that they're not able to be consistent, to have momentum? And I think you know you'll probably hear some of these answers we've been discussing.
Speaker: But then once you know what the actual problem is, you can you can solve it. And I think it's not so it's it's not just the course. There's too many other factors going on that can hold people back. You know, when I think about trying to get this across to the broader audience and what I mean by that, they've got to hear a story. And I know you've got one where it hasn't gone well.
Speaker: Okay. And then they need to hear one where it's gone extremely well, because I think it makes a difference when it comes to the business as a whole, if we're doing it correctly.
Speaker: Okay. If we're doing a lot of the things that you've already highlighted. So give me ah an example of when it didn't go well and what happened as a consequence.
Speaker: the The worst case scenario that unfortunately is becoming only more and more common, especially in public accounting, is senior associates who are up for manager promotion and need a credential in order to get that, you know whether it's the EA or the CPA. But regardless, they don't have one. and It is literally the only thing holding them back. You know, they've got the technical skills. They've got the people skills. They're starting to interact with clients. um They want the promotion. They want to rise to that next level. You know, they they want the responsibility, the pay raise. They want all of it. The firm's like, you know, this person's a rock star. Let's do it. But they don't have the credential.
Speaker: and the And once again, if the firm is not supporting these people, because once you everybody in accounting knows senior associate is one of the hardest positions in the firm. Yes, sir. the first time.
Speaker: yeah You have to manage up to the managers. You have to manage down to the associates here. You're reviewing work. You're sending it up. um You're starting to interact with clients. It is a lot, um a ton of responsibility. And so having the exam on top of all that, you know it's it's more difficult for a senior than an associate. But then if you throw that pressure on top of it that, hey, this is literally the only thing holding you back from promotion.
Speaker: That only that only makes it harder. Once again, it's hard enough. But then that pressure of like you have to pass this by this specific timeline or else, you know, if you don't get it done, then you miss this promotion cycle. You have to wait another six months to see if we can do it at mid year. That's the worst case. And unfortunately, I have seen it where because because the firm doesn't support the senior, they still keep giving them a ton of work. They still you know go to them with extra assignments with all the client demands and the senior, they just can't get it done. There's not enough time in the day. and they end up leaving the firm because because they couldn't do it. I mean, everybody loses in that situation. The firm loses a great employee who wanted to advance.
Speaker: The employee feels terrible about themselves, you know, because they view that as a huge failure, a huge, a huge indictment. um their Their plan has gotten thrown off. You know, they thought, hey, I was going to make manager, maybe senior manager. Who knows what was going to happen? But now they have to go find a new job. um and That's where people might quit the exam entirely.
Speaker: And so that is that is the worst case scenario. And so if you do have if you're starting to have that backlog of seniors where they're getting close to promotion and they don't have the credential yet, I think you need to really try to head that problem off because the longer it goes, the worse it's going to get.
Speaker: And that is a situation where people absolutely need firm support to make sure once I know the work has to get done, you know, and I understand it's a balance. But it will absolutely take both sides working together to ensure that the that the senior feels like there is a path where they can do both things and and get that promotion. Because it it really is a shame if people end up leaving a job that they like in a firm that they like just because they couldn't get the exam passed.
Speaker: You know, when I think about ah the Gen Zs and it's not just the Gen Zs, I don't want folks to think I'm picking on them, but the emotional and I won't say trauma, but ramifications of not passing a part of the exam and then having to go back and share that with your supervisor.
Speaker: I mean, help the supervisor understand how to have the conversation with that particular candidate, that particular senior, and that particular staff. the level set with them so they get in the right frame of mind so they can pass the exam. Because mentally, let me tell you, it'll weigh on you where you can't pass it.
Speaker: I mean, I've known some folks that get there and they hover at 69, 69, 69, and they can't get it across the finish line to the point you've made. It's not like they don't know.
Speaker: It's just now they've got this mental fatigue and this ah pressure to be successful. So how how how am I helping if I'm if if I'm a leader, how am I coaching them up? How am I coaching them through that exercise? Because I think it's really important for leader to step up and acknowledge because sometimes you can give attention to those who to the point you made earlier who are very successful and you use them in ah in a way and you parade them and then everyone else you know freezes in their steps.
Speaker: and are not successful. So what how are you helping that leader be more successful and in in that dialogue and that in that conversation? I think leaders can do a lot to try to normalize failure.
Speaker: um i think more discussions around that, not not making people expect to fail, but just letting them have an appreciation that 70% of candidates fail at least one section. Most candidates need six or seven total attempts to pass all four. I think you...
Speaker: ah You can't you can't remind them of that enough. You know, people may hear that at the start of the journey, but then if they don't hear it again, the rest of the way, it's easy to forget and to fall back into that expectation of getting it all perfectly.
Speaker: So and I think something that's very powerful, you know, everybody talks about the power of story Right. Like, you know, we're humans. We love hearing stories. It's how we pass things down. It's how we learn. So I think firms can look at seeing if there are other people within their firm trying to get, you know, almost like testimonials and stories from people who they struggled with the exam and they can share their experience for the candidates, especially if they're higher up, because I've seen sometimes people at the partner level.
Speaker: um on LinkedIn, on social media, share their experience. And you'd be surprised to see people who seem like you know rock stars in the industry. They got the LinkedIn content. you know They're they're living living the big accounting life. And then to hear like, oh, the exam was terrible for them. like They really struggled with it. They really stressed out, not just partners, but even going all the way down I think seeing like, are there seniors who are comfortable sharing what struggles they had? Because you want the ah you want the candidates to appreciate I'm not the only one. Right. There's there's so much power in realizing I'm not the only one. Other people have gone through this. Other people have overcome this.
Speaker: Because when when we see that there have been people who have dealt with the same things I'm dealing with, they've gone on to be seniors, to be managers, to be partners. So if they did it, then certainly I can do it too, right? I think we all can speak to, we've all probably had experiences where we had a role model where we were working toward a goal. We weren't sure if it was possible, but we we saw someone else do it.
Speaker: So we knew that we were capable of it, too. And when you have that belief, you're much more likely to follow through. But if you think if you have that perception that, oh, you know, all these other CPAs in my firm, they probably crushed it. They probably did it all in the first attempt.
Speaker: You fall back into that trap of I'm the only one I'm behind. I'm screwing up, which means something is wrong with me. So I think if you can sort of, you know, whether it's like a lunch and learn newsletters, webinars, but sharing those stories from within your firm um of struggle that people overcame because it's going to it's going to teach your candidates lessons. It's going to give them ideas and it's just going to normalize the struggle. And it's much easier to get through the struggle when you know that other people have dealt with it and gotten through it.
Speaker: And that replaces the narrative of I'm the only one struggling because I'm not good enough. Now, Blake, I was thinking about transformation and technology and the tool that everyone should be using is artificial intelligence.
Speaker: I'm curious as to how that gets baked into the overall prep exercise. I would think that students should be using it, but I'm curious as to what your thoughts are.
Speaker: I could not agree more that students should be using it. I think they're really doing themselves a disservice if they are not. Because the the AI agents that are out there, whether it's you know a third party one or the the bots that are embedded within you know Becker, UWorld or your course, you should absolutely be using them. It's as if you have a personalized tutor who is always available, always there, ready to answer your specific questions. And what I tell candidates is to imagine if they had a teacher or a tutor right next to them or the instructor in the lecture videos was right next to them in person, every question that you would ask them, why would you not ask the AI? Because even if it's not going to perfectly answer things, it's still probably going to get you closer than you were before. And a big
Speaker: question people raise is that, you know people saying, is it really that good? Is it really that accurate? And I think people need to take a bit of responsibility about how exactly are they prompting it? Because bad prompts are going to yield bad results. If you tell the AI I'm struggling with bonds, help me learn bonds versus if you say,
Speaker: I'm taking the CPA exam in 2026. I'm studying for FAR. I'm struggling with this type of bond journal entry. I think I'm messing up this part of the process. Can you help explain where I'm going wrong? Or like, can you give me real world real world examples? Think about how different the result is going to be when you give it that additional context and and and what you are looking for. So that is something where if people aren't getting a lot of value from AI, I think you need to look at how you're prompting it and look at, are you being specific enough to what you are looking for?
Speaker: I think it it can help you with content. It can help you come come up with examples. It can check your study plans. There's really no harm in asking it anything. And if you think about how good the models are getting, because I know that was something as as the models are getting better. that was something in the news a lot is like, are they are they able to pass this professional exam or, you know, what are they scoring on these results? And it really has been. transformational to see how much they have grown. like I've been a big user of of AI. I like to scroll back within my own history and see questions I asked it in 2023 or 2024. And it is crazy how much better it is and how much the answers have changed. So if you if you've used AI in the past and you thought it wasn't helpful, it made too many mistakes, I absolutely i absolutely would ask you to revisit it again um because I do think they have improved a lot and they're only going to continue you to get better.
Speaker: so I want to say candidates are doing themselves at a ah disservice, any technical issue. um Another thing that comes up a lot is, oh, I still didn't understand what the AI was telling me. It still didn't make sense. And to that, I would say, well, you can always ask it again. You know, if if you had a if you had a human tutor, maybe they might start to get a little impatient with you if you need to hear the same thing over and over. But the AI is not going to it's not going to complain if you're like,
Speaker: That didn't make sense. Can you explain it a different way? That didn't make sense. You know can you make it can you make it simpler? um Can you take out all of the jargon? I mean, really anything that you can think of. So, yes, whether it's whether it's technical content, study plans. um I think a ah great thing I tell people to do, use the voice mode on AI and try to explain something to to whatever model you're using, because they always say the best way to learn something is to try to teach it to someone else. And I think for a lot of people, you know, your your partner, your kids, your your friends, they may not want to hear you explain ah CPA exam concepts to people. It might be tough to do that, but you can go to an AI and say, hey, I'm going to try to explain the COSO framework on the audit section to you. Ask me questions to poke holes holes in my understanding. And you can have that dialogue with it. So there really are so so many different ways to use it. I think it can help every aspect of your journey. um There's no reason to not try it and You know i know Becker, I know UWorld, they have their own proprietary models that are a part of their programs. So those are trained, you know, on their data. It's embedded into the software.
Speaker: So know you can use those. You can use whatever third party model you want. you know Use both of them, compare them to each other. um But I really think from the technical standpoint, it can help. It can help accelerate things so much. I mean, I can't can't imagine how different my experience would have been taking it if this tool had been available. So highly encourage everybody to use it.
Speaker: You know, Blake, when I start thinking about this audience and I know they need steps, there are steps that leaders can take to be more successful in making sure that their people are getting what they need to be successful.
Speaker: What's your recommendation? I normally like a five is a round number, but it can be less than that. So what are those key steps that you would tell a leader to take tomorrow to help their team be more successful in navigating the exam?
Speaker: I think the biggest thing that firm leaders can do is to go first and to be the ones who start these conversations and initiate them. Because like we've talked about, this young generation, they are often afraid to raise their hand and ask for help.
Speaker: They don't want to seem weak or incompetent. So if leaders can be the ones who reach out and ask their candidates, how is the exam going? How are you doing? You When was the last time you did? When was the last time you checked in to see are there any problems you're running into? Is it different than you expected? And ask, how can we help in terms of, you know, helping you create a study schedule that works for you, help you balance things, um you know, maybe give you a mentor or a buddy, someone to study with. But B, if you start the conversations, I think you'll see that, oh, there actually was a lot going on underneath the surface surface that I wasn't aware of. And you'll find ways where where you can help each other. And so since the leaders are the ones that are older, that are in the positions of power and influence, I think
Speaker: you You need to be the one to go first because it's often just like too intimidating for the young people. And you might think if they haven't asked for help, if they're silent, that that means that everything is going OK. But that is often not the case. You know, often they're just not bringing it up. So don't take silence as a sign that everything is good.
Speaker: So I would say start these conversations, really try to get a feel for what people are actually going through. And we've talked about how firms provide the course, firms provide the bonus, and those are great extrinsic rewards, but the firms need to also focus on the intrinsic aspects too. Don't just talk to the candidates about you know the bonus, but also maybe ask other people within your firm, how did the exam help you beyond just you know what people think of in terms of the bonus in getting promoted? Like how did it help you become a better employee? How did it help you in other areas in your work, in your personal life? um you know, maybe it helps somebody accomplish a big goal of their own, whether that's like fitness related or, you know, some other skill that they tried to develop. And because they had developed all these skills when they studied for the exam, they were able to translate that to other parts of their life, too. So I think, you know, the title is great. The bonus is great. All those things are great. But if you can get a sort of holistic approach about what the exam is going to do for you, I think that also can be a great source of motivation.
Speaker: And then i think one thing as well that I think leaders can really emphasize to people is they don't need to try to race through everything and get through everything as fast as possible. That's another area where stories can really come into play because, you know, we're we're a microwave society nowadays, right? We want everything right away. We want the Amazon package right away. the the Uber Eats right away. um i want to be able to watch 10 things on Netflix. I want it all now. But so I think firms.
Speaker: should make sure to message to two candidates. And once again, this is something that they they will have because they've been working for a while. They have the experience, they have the perspective. And so I think if they can tell people like, hey, right now, because you're young, you know, the the couple of months that you're studying for this or years, it feels like forever.
Speaker: And it feels like you just want to get through it and get to the finish line and just be on to the next thing. But as people who have been working for a long time, you have that perspective. You know that in the course of my whole career, if I have to sacrifice myself,
Speaker: one year where a lot of time goes toward this exam, like that, that is okay. I have so much more career ahead of me, so much more life ahead of me, so much more time to accomplish all these other things. Cause that is another huge, a huge struggle for people is just thinking it should go fast and thinking it should be easy. And so I think just giving that perspective of how the exam fits into a longer career and your overall career picture can help them just realize once again, and that, you know, I don't have to be perfect. I don't have to sprint through it That no matter how long it takes, you know, you're still capable of having a great career and you have you have time. And just when you're in the future, looking back, you know, you're able to connect those dots and see that, um you know, how it how it all it all worked out. It all led to the different places in your career, but you just didn't need to try to rush through it and stress so much.
Speaker: Awesome. You know, when I think about leaders, that's great advice. I want one takeaway, one takeaway for the candidate that they can look to, that they can use tomorrow so they can be more successful in navigating the exam. So what's your one takeaway for them?
Speaker: My one takeaway for candidates is appreciating that this journey is supposed to be difficult. I think often we take struggle or adversity as a sign that we are doing something wrong when you almost need to flip that on its head and appreciate that this is a part of the process. By signing up to take the exam, you are also signing up for failure, for struggle, for adversity, for having to learn and adjust and be adaptable. And you can't want the rewards of the process without also wanting what it takes to get there. you can't just want the credential and the bonus and not want to put in all the work, put in all the time, make all the sacrifices. But I think you should actually be glad that it is so difficult because that is why the credential is so valuable.
Speaker: Right. The things that are easy, the things you don't have to work for, they're not valuable because anybody could do it. But this is one of the best credentials you can earn. It is very respected. It has credibility. It adds to your brand. And it's because it's tough because people know that when once you've passed this exam, that says something about you. So it is good that it is tough because that means on the other side, if you can get it done, if you can you know incorporate a lot of these ideas and advice we've been talking about, once you get it done, it really just transforms your career on the other side. So the things we work the hardest for typically have the most value.
Speaker: So don't you know don't take struggle as a sign that you're bad, that you're not good enough. Accept that it's a part of the path, but just know that you can overcome it and know and all those sacrifices will absolutely be worth it on the other side once you've passed.
Speaker: Awesome. Awesome. Blake, it's been an absolute pleasure talking with you. I think this is a critical topic. I think it's very good and necessary information for supervisors, leaders, as well as those candidates that are gearing up for the exam. So I know you're a busy man.
Speaker: I mean, you're a coach, so you're busy doing all kinds of things. So, but I thank you for your time and your energy as relates to this topic. Yes. Thank you for having me. You know, an honor to have the conversation. Hopefully it provides some value to the candidates, the leaders and everyone in between. But yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker: Awesome. Awesome. You know, to take some time to look into the camera I'll say this. see The CPA exam is not easy and it's not getting any easier. It's an incredible opportunity. um Don't procrastinate because we know when we procrastinate and don't be afraid.
Speaker: You've got your leaders that are there on your side. So be patient, be easy on yourself. And I think you'll be successful in navigating the exam. I thank you as always for tuning in to Balancing the Future. And I look forward to our next conversation.
