Transcript
Speaker: All right. Welcome everyone. This is the first inaugural episode of fatherhood fables. This has been about a year coming for me. This idea came January of last year and took me a year to get everything going. But here I am, you know, fatherhood life is, is busy. So I think a year is not too shabby, but I'm super excited to start this thing out with one of my absolute favorites. We go back, I don't even know how many years now, but definitely a handful of projects.
Speaker: And at one point we were working on two films back to back and he'd always make the joke that we were seeing more of each other for that time period than we saw of our wives. So we've gotten to know each other really through some of my hardest moments a couple of years back. And he was just a constant friend and someone I really look up to. And he's actually the founder, co -founder of BCA, which is Bethel Conservatory of the Arts.
Speaker: which I know was a dream in his heart for many years. And it's been beautiful to see that thing happen over the last couple of years and just flourish. And we're gonna hear a little bit about that and what he's up to now and about his kids and stuff. So David Neronia, welcome to Fatherhood Fables. So excited to have you, man. Man, I'm so excited to be here and to hang out with you.
Speaker: Awesome bro. So just tell us a little bit about yourself, what you're up to, how many kids you have, all that good stuff. Well, yeah, man. We'll start with the kids. I joke that I'm almost Amish cause I've got four kids and you know, kind of like Abraham and Sarah, I've got a, I span from five year old all the way up to my three teenage boys, eldest being 18, been married to my wife or
Speaker: going on 26 years this summer, man, super proud of that. She's still the hottest girl I know to me. And yeah, man, on the creative side and kind of on the business side, man, I co founded BCA, the Bethel Conservatory of the Arts. And that's kind of been my labor of love. This is after serving as a producer at Bethel Media and directing films with you and Bethel Music and
Speaker: That's really my history, man, is that I started off as an artist, as an actor when I was 17 years old. And yeah, I don't think I get through one day without thinking about story or artists or art, man. It's just kind of what makes me tick.
Speaker: Yeah, that's beautiful. I was thinking about this interview last night. I was actually thinking about the few times I've heard you talk about story and just the impact that's had on me as a creative, as a storyteller. You know, we'll hit a little bit more on some fatherhood stuff, but I'd love for you just to kind of delve a little bit into like,
Speaker: the impact of story, how that's impacted your life as you've kind of carved this thing out of stories central to who you are, both as a creative, I'm sure your story of where you came from, your dad, your family, all of that. So just maybe that's not a very pointy question, but I love you just to kind of inside of the wrapper of story, like what has that done for you?
Speaker: Yeah, man. And you know, it's funny, I'll start with this thing that every story has a title, or usually every story has a title. And this connects with the theme of your podcast about fatherhood, because I asked the Lord a while ago, what is the title over my life? And it's actually an exercise that I do with my writers, and I encourage a lot of our artists to do it as well. It's like, if your life is a story, then it should have a title. And the title tells you what the story is about.
Speaker: a great title encapsulates and it's almost you can think of it as like the mustard seed of the story in the title, you get a sense of what the theme, the type of story, the tone, the focus, the objective of the hero and the protagonist, all of that could should kind of be felt or hinted at in the title of the title over my life. When I asked the Lord that he said to me, you are creative father,
Speaker: Fathering creatives, a creative father, fathering creatives. I'm a creative father because I happen to be a father, but there's different types of fathers. There's a protector father, there's a warrior father, there's a provider father. There's different kind of qualifiers or descriptors or adjectives that you can throw in front of father and they're all valid and they're all beautiful.
Speaker: And I think every father has a superpower, or something that they're really great at, you know, that they just have this God given gift. And mine happens to land in this particular thing. But it also describes for me then my own needs and my own wants for me to live and breathe.
Speaker: i have to stay and be creative but then it also describes what kind of father i'm gonna be so how that plays out for me is. You know we read and we tell a lot of stories like you know one of the currencies in my home is stories whether it's watching something with one of my sons or my daughters or talking about it or having read you know bedtime story in my house was like the holy of holies and.
Speaker: So I'm a creative father, but then the second half of the title over my life is fathering creatives. And that gives me my mission statement. It gives me my objective day to day here at BCA. I know that what I need to be is a father to create it. So not only am I described, but I get my mission statement just from the title. And that's just, we could talk on and on about story. If you look at the hero's journey, all I'll say about that is God did it first through the gospel.
Speaker: So when you actually study the hero's journey, there are points in it called the supreme ordeal. Well, that's him and Gethsemane, you know, sweating blood. The resurrection is literally a step in the hero's journey. Like you can't echo the gospel more clearly than actually what we've come to call the hero's journey, which is really Christ's journey. And N .T. Wright says that basically every story is an echo of
Speaker: the gospel and so i could talk on and on about story i think it's human currency i actually think that outside of breathing drinking water and eating if we actually count the amount of hours that we take in and or create content it is probably the thing that human beings do fourth most every single day of their lives so fascinating it's true.
Speaker: That's, yeah, when you start to think about like, I was just thinking social media to, you know, I mean, any of these, you know, obviously, like, I think in media terms, because, you know, that's just, you know, how, what I work in. But, you know, even hearing about my son's day when he comes home from school, right? It's like, it's all story.
Speaker: Yeah. And so, um, I think that's the beautiful power of being a storyteller, right? When you see yourself that way. So maybe just like walk us through quickly. I, I love, one of my favorite things is whenever we were, you know, taking a break in the, the suite and I added sweet and there'll be moments where you share like little stories about your life and be like, I never knew that. So maybe, you know, obviously, um, just doesn't have to be a lengthy thing, but just a little bit of like how you grew up and your relationship with your father and how that impacted who you are. So.
Speaker: Yeah man i mean i i it was babies making babies my parents had me my dad was fifteen and my mom was seventeen when i was born. So he was he was a boy he was a young man who you know got with the girl and and you know surprise surprise along came me and jump out a window or something.
Speaker: Say again, man. Didn't your dad like jump up out of a window or like, well, yeah, at one point, I think my uncle and my grandfather came home and caught them both together. They were, they were teenagers not yet married. And, uh, but they fell in love and that, you know, I was a surprise and he was so young. He literally couldn't get up to date. He had to get like parental consent to come up to see me get born. That's how he was.
Speaker: He did the best that he could. My parents are amazing, amazing people. We had some rough patches. My dad, most of my childhood, there was addiction. There was pot and cocaine and LSD. It was the 70s going into the 80s. But now he's vegan in better shape than me and completely clean. He doesn't even drink. If parenting had a high school yearbook, my dad would definitely win most improved.
Speaker: we have a deep and beautiful connection now my mom and i she's moving to town and so but my my childhood man was pretty you know my parents and i we talked about this like we're all good i've done the counseling thing we've done the reconciliation and forgiveness thing and but i grew up.
Speaker: figuring out how to raise myself as well, not because I wasn't fed and I had parents around, but it was a little bit chaotic. They were just trying to figure themselves out. And so that was, I think, probably that my childhood, as everybody's does, I think was probably the most formative thing. And I'm still walking out both the good, bad and the ugly of that formation, because sometimes
Speaker: you know we form ourselves around the gnarls and and the curves and we then later on have to discover hey i think that maybe worked to survive when i was nine or ten but maybe not great for raising my kids um but yeah man i mean that was my journey as a teenager growing up in the barrio uh you know we were working class poor people first time i ever got on a plane was to go to carnegie to study and and to go to conservatory and to become an actor and
Speaker: My journey to fatherhood was, half of it happened at first without the Lord. And so I made a lot of mistakes and it was rough and it was tough. And I'm still figuring out parts of me that aren't always great and trying to understand why that is what it is. But my wife and I, one of the things I am proud of, because we both came from divorces, we just fought. We fought for our marriage, fought for healing and for growth.
Speaker: And yeah, dude, I mean, we're still standing strong on the same team as I like to say, you know, we've decided to stand on the same team. And, you know, we're walking out the teenage years, which is a conversation in and of itself. Oh my gosh. Now I can't even imagine, I have my oldest is six. Sometimes the conversations we're starting to have, I'm like, oh my word, like just opinions, like he's the sweetest, but the opinions are, you know,
Speaker: just becoming more firm and I can't imagine another six years, seven years when he's a teenager and just all the things you learn along the way. And the, I guess, you know, maybe just, I'd love to hear a little bit more about that because obviously it gives me a perspective.
Speaker: going into, you know, we're like, I'm away as a way. But as fathers, I think sometimes I'll say this with with Aiden, I've realized because he is very much like me. And I'm sure you probably have one of your kids. It's a little bit more like you then. It's like parenting yourself. You're literally looking at yourself going, oh my gosh. And it's such a challenge. Sometimes I'm like, it creates compassion for towards towards him, you know, from me. But at the same time, I'm like, oh,
Speaker: I have to ask the question sometimes what I have needed that I didn't get. As your kids have gotten older, one's 18, maybe about to go to college and he's a man. What are some of the parenting and fathering things you've had to recalibrate, change perspective for the better? What are some of those things you've learned in the recent years?
Speaker: I mean, the biggest thing I've had to confront is that apparently free will still exists and it exists in my home and in my children. It wasn't just in the garden. It wasn't just out of beneath. It was like apparently that is still there. Frankly, we're in a whole reconfiguration right now because I've got literally a 14, a 16, and a soon -to -be 18 -year -old all boys and they're all taller and fitter than me. There's that reality. I'm no longer the biggest, strongest man in the house.
Speaker: you know, not just physical change, but they are self -determining now. And a lot of the tools of like, you know, even the Love and Logic and the Danny Soak stuff, it's like, that's served me greatly. It still informs how I try to parent, but I've hit the wall of the limitations of certain kinds of influence that I at least thought I had.
Speaker: One of the big things I want to say out loud is I believed the delusion that the teenage challenge was going to fly over my house like the Passover spirit and I'm somehow wasn't going to have to actually deal with the gnarliness of teens. I really thought that because it hadn't yet happened and then all of a sudden it landed in my house full force
Speaker: three times over and I was like, Oh, okay. So it's been incredibly humbling, sometimes hard to go, Oh, okay. All those things I thought I had figured out all, um, frankly, it's even been humbling of like, I thought I had been a better parent than maybe I am.
Speaker: You start to realize maybe some of the mistakes and things in you that have played out that now you've got three very strong in every sense of the word saying, hey, pointing out where you've missed the mark. And then in the midst of that, this is the most complicated thing is not only are they pointing out things to you, but you're talking to three human beings that are fully convinced that they're right. Yeah.
Speaker: like teenage boys and maybe all teenagers are 100 % convinced that they are right and sometimes on a bad date that not only are they right, but you're an idiot.
Speaker: And so now you're confronted with, and then here's a crazy stat, but the male brain doesn't actually fully form to the age of 25. That's wild, yeah. The age of 25. So now, and I say this lovingly and respectfully because my three sons are amazing guys. Very bright, very ambitious, very driven each in their own ways. But I just say this from a physiological standpoint, I am literally talking to somebody that has a half -finished brain.
Speaker: who is convinced that they're 100 % right. Then in addition to that, I'm having to confront that I thought I was right about maybe more than I am. And now I'm being told by people who I love and I respect. But again, with everything else that I've just said, and I'm trying to figure out right now, I'm in the trenches of figuring out what's the truth? What is helpful? Where do I need to change? Where do I as a father?
Speaker: need to continue to love, but to require. And that balance is a modern dad of bringing both the connection, the affection, all of the warms and the fuzzies and the nice side. But then also like, where's the lion? Where's the firmness? Where's the alpha who says, that's not the culture of my home. And that equation, I'm walking through that right now. And it's probably one of the most complicated things emotionally and psychologically I've ever had to walk through.
Speaker: Wow, man. Well, thanks for sharing. I think it's encouraging to hear because I think sometimes, I mean, I'm a nine on the Enneagram. So if you don't know the Enneagram, a nine is like...
Speaker: kind of like the peacekeeper, right? So I kind of do what I, you know, I feel like I need to do sometimes. And as my, my oldest son is, is, you know, like I said, he's only six, but as he's developing these opinions and these things, I'm like, Oh, I am no longer just at a level with him where I have to choose to engage.
Speaker: I mean, obviously he's not a man yet, but he's starting to ask questions about how valid is my opinion? How strongly can I push up against you without you coming back at me? What kind of level of discussion can we have? I've started to realize, oh, I need to be okay with a bit of mess.
Speaker: and even like his level of like coming back at me sometimes obviously you know we there's rules and there's ways that we engage with mom and dad and especially mom you know I always say hey that's my wife you know um if he gets a little cheeky but um uh you know I'm allowing him to kind of have a little bit of that experimental space with me that kind of says hey like you know I don't need you to get things perfect all the time with you with having three boys I'm sure the energy sometimes is you know trying to like I heard someone say once trying to keep maybe it was you keep the G .I. Joe out of their butt you know like
Speaker: like please don't do that you know i'd love to hear a little bit too with your your fourth being uh uh you know daddy's daughter like your baby girl like what's been the dynamic of of that of okay wow i have my princess i got three boys
Speaker: You know, I'm working on being a dad and we're in teenage years, but also like, okay, now I have this part of me that's like, I think you told me the other day, you guys have watched the Mandalorian, uh, what, three times through. And like you have this beautiful relationship with her that's probably in some ways contrasted, you know, what it is with your boys. Just maybe how is it, how you've navigated that? How, what does that look like for you?
Speaker: Yeah, man. I mean, you know, on the boy thing real quick, I, you know, when I always felt more comfortable around women, because ultimately, you know, after my folks got divorced, I was with my mom and my grandmother, a lot of my mentors in life, but female teachers and stuff. And so it's like, I always had this like maternal and then lover relationship with women, you know, pre Lord, you know, pre Lord, it's like I had a lot of girlfriends and then I had so women were always a huge component of my life. It wasn't really I didn't really start figuring out
Speaker: what masculinity looked like with masculinity, like guy -die relationship, friendship, because it's just so radically different. And so I always felt more comfortable relating and talking to women. It was always easier for me to do that because it was what I was accustomed to. And then all of a sudden, God pulls this curve ball on me and gives me three boys. I was always convinced I'd just get like three daughters or something like this. And I was like, oh, easy, great. I understand that. I thought I did, by the way. I thought I did. With three boys, what I've learned is this is like,
Speaker: the first place they're going to wrestle is with, is with dad. And it starts off physical. Now the irony is, is like, I never really had that relationship with my dad. It just wasn't who he was. And so I never really like, not that I can remember play wrestled with my dad. And then all of a sudden, I've got these little creatures that are showing me love through physicality.
Speaker: And so much in our society has kibosh that and like kind of crushed it and said it's ADD or it's bad. And, you know, I'm not saying that there aren't some things that, you know, behaviorally that we need to look at with boys, but frankly, most of the world just isn't made for them. I mean, sitting around at school isn't made for them.
Speaker: you know our homes and become these cool little care when import museums and so it's like where does a boy get to be a boy climb trees break things because. That's part of just our nature is where disruptors and builders and. We have muscles and strength and it's just important like every single one of my boys was always look at me look at me mommy flexing now the three of them are at the gym and they're more ripped than i am i mean my eldest son comes out of the bathroom looks like a freaking cobra you know is bass like rock.
Speaker: They're all talking about calorie loading and creatine in my house. My food bill is a mortgage right now. I'm not joking. But on that thing of aid and testing with you, what I've learned is it starts physically. And then it moves to verbal and to psychological. And this idea of testing, there is a form of it that's rebellion and dishonoring. There is that. On the extreme, on the outer curve, it's that.
Speaker: But there's a part of it where they're trying to figure out how to be strong and healthy way. And if they can't do that with dad, then they're gonna do it with a girlfriend or they're gonna do it with a boss or whatever. And so for me, and I haven't really had this thought till talking to you, it's like watching the wrestling and the horse play as a precursor to figuring out how to be a man and us having the sight to say,
Speaker: Ah, I can see what's happening here. You're not just against me. You're trying to figure out how to be a man, how to have tough conversations. Ask for what you need. Self -determine. And so that pushing back, we as parents, it's hard when you have the big red button on your chest and I get offended.
Speaker: But if we can have eyes to see that that's what's happening there my daughter Short version of that completely different if my tone of voice even changes a little bit I can see and i'm talking like the mildest with my voice Sometimes it takes me pounding my chest to be heard with my daughter. I whisper and she's like, oh, okay daddy And i'm like, oh, okay. I better I better be aware. This is a different creature Yeah, that's
Speaker: You know, it's amazing once you get to know your kids too, like my youngest is one. So, you know, I'm just starting to see his personality, but the differences in the way that you parents, not just gender, but you know, personalities too. You got like three or four variables and there's never, there's never a manual.
Speaker: It's evolving fluid. That's the most... It's like you feel like you're showing up playing jazz every day and you're like, oh, I thought I had it figured out. Oh, no, doesn't work with you. Oh, no, it doesn't work this week. Oh, it worked yesterday. It's like, you know, when the kid is like, but I thought you liked PBJ. No, not anymore. You're like, oh, okay.
Speaker: Okay. No, it's yeah. My son just told me that, well, you used to be peanut butter and jelly every day. And all of a sudden it's like, no, no, no, I don't, I've never liked that. I'm like, you've had this for the last two years of your life, every day at school. He's like, I only like with peanut butter and butter. And I'm like, okay. But, uh, yeah, it's ever, uh, ever evolving, just kind of discovery, which I think, I think that's one of the most beautiful things about fatherhood that I've come to enjoy is the discovery. You know, I mean, the same can be said of, of marriage. Oh yeah, man.
Speaker: in marriage, you have to pursue the discovery a little bit. Cause sometimes life just happens and you know, so you just kind of get through it. Both kids, obviously there's like the, the growing up years is they're just blossoming in front of you and they're, you know, discovering themselves and you're discovering who they are and opinions and thoughts and, you know, likes and the things that they're into. And in one of these upcoming episodes, I'll actually give a bit of a backstory to, um,
Speaker: my journey and where fatherhood fables came from and what it is as kind of, um, it was a bit of a exercise and like a journal journaling process for me when it first started. And I realized, um, when I lost my father in 2019, that I, um, which again, you were in, you were literally, we were in, in the trenches 10 hours a day, cutting bright ones, um, in the middle of both libs being born. And the whole year while my father was struggling with cancer and, um,
Speaker: I discovered a part of having both a father in my life. Honestly, you're the closest thing I've had outside of my father to a father that I've just, you know, someone that, you know, you're not that much older than me, but I really respect and look up to. And we've had lots of just beautiful heart and hard conversations of life. And yeah, but just to kind of, you know, go back to what I was saying where the fatherhood fables really was birthed out of
Speaker: Yeah, that was deep. I think to say all of that, you know, I
Speaker: the process of learning to be followed by God in two of the hardest seasons of my life. And yeah, and I really appreciate you being on the podcast. Obviously not the last time I'm going to have you on here. We'll have to have like every 100 episodes, here's David and everyone starting the clock again. But yeah, man, I just really appreciate you taking the time. I respect who you are and I really just love you. And
Speaker: I love next time for maybe to crack open a little bit more of the BCA thing, because I think that one of the things that you have on your life is really, and it's unique, I've never seen it before, is really the ability to father creatives and have a voice with creatives who are discovering who they are, but also, I think as a whole, I sent you a voice now a couple weeks ago.
Speaker: I really think that you have such a God -given revelation into fathering creatives and creating a platform I think for the next generation and generations of what it looks like to partner with the Holy Spirit and raise up creatives that are
Speaker: aware of who they are in Christ. I think we're just on the fringe of seeing the impact of what that looks like. We'll get into that in a further episode, but I just appreciate you being on here, bro, for your voice. My pleasure. Thanks so much. My pleasure. Proud of you, brother.
