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Is job hopping now acceptable? (and news in episode 83)
96 Plays10 days ago
News for 7 October 2024 and Question of the Week, "Is job hopping now acceptable?"
#RNA #RecruitmentPodcast #RecruirmentNewsAustralia
Transcript
00:00:09
Speaker
Adele and I are pleased to have Bullhorn as the sponsor of Recruitment News Australia. In today's world, your agency's database must be in the cloud, secured and accessible wherever you are, in an office, at home or on the move. Bullhorn's Recruitment Software is that home base for your team. Not only does it help you manage your entire recruitment process, it also acts as a central hub for the rest of your tech stack. Go to bullhorn dot.com for more information.
00:00:39
Speaker
This is the news for week commencing the 7th of October, 2024. I'm Adele Last. Former ah RGF Staffing CEO, Peter Acheson, returned to the recruitment industry last week when he started his new role as a DECO's Senior Vice President and ANZ CEO, but replacing Nicholas Lee, who left the role just over six months ago. Acheson joined the recruitment industry in 2004 when he was hired by Rod Butters to run his IT recruitment agency, Ambit.
00:01:09
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Ambit was merged with PeopleBank in 2008, and two years later, HSN became PeopleBank's CEO. In 2015, PeopleBank was acquired by Japan's Recruit Holdings, which simultaneously acquired Chandler McCloud. HSN led the merge business, which rebranded as ah RGF Staffing in 2021. In June last year, ah RGF Staffing unexpectedly replaced HSN with PeopleBank's EGM Brett Lay.
00:01:35
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Acheson is Adeko's sixth ANZ CEO in the last nine years as it has struggled to capture local market share, commensurate with its global ranking as the second largest staffing firm. When RNA spoke to Acheson, he was already on a tour of Adeko's ANZ offices and said he was excited by the challenge of leading a business he called the sleeping giant of the local recruitment industry.
00:01:59
Speaker
RCSA Board Director David Stewart has departed from his executive role at Business NSW and plans to take a nine-month career break. Formally in the NSW Business Chamber, Stewart joined Business NSW in 2011 and subsequently founded and ran the organisation's recruitment, healthcare and community care businesses with 28 branches and 370 employees under the brands Alliance Community, Alliance Nursing, Alliance Rural and Remote Health Extra Staff and apprenticeship careers Australia. In speaking to RNA last week, Stuart, who resigned three months ago and finished up last Monday, said he'd been working professionally for nearly four decades and needed a long break, having not had more than a two-week holiday at any one time.
00:02:43
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since he started his career. Stewart said he would be travelling, playing more golf and considering his options for the second half of 2025. James Monroe Ford was elevated to Stewart's former role as CEO of Alliance Australia three months ago. Stewart's most recent role for Business NSW, Executive Director Commercial, has not been replaced with Stewart's responsibility split across other group executives.
00:03:11
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The ABC's independent review on racism within the national broadcaster Listen Loudly acts strongly commissioned by the ABC Managing Director David Anderson was released last week containing a number of recommendations to improve recruitment practices. Participants in the review expressed the view that a monoculture largely existed because managers tended to hire people that look like them, get on with them socially and are culturally familiar.
00:03:38
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The majority of participants felt that unconscious bias feeds into recruitment processes. There is a perception from participants that recruitment processes are disingenuous and require more accountability, the report said. While diversity was often sought for recruitment panels, this was viewed as tokenistic, with the same First Nations or culturally diverse staff being relied on as panel members. The report's 15 recommendations cover a wide range of HR and cultural issues.
00:04:05
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the ABC must improve pathways for employment which are flexible and inclusive for people who are First Nations and culturally and linguistically diverse, the report said. In its response, the ABC said it had agreed to review its recruitment processes to ensure they were inclusive, accessible, and reflected the broadcaster's cultural diversity. While one journalist who took part in the review told news site Crikey, they felt the process did a job of good job of addressing a lot of the relevant issues experienced by staff They were not convinced that true change could be achieved. Fair Work Ombudsman has launched legal action against Queensland labour high business and sweet potato farm, alleging it unlawfully deducted money from migrant employees, including for breaching its alcohol policy. McChrystal Agricultural Services Proprietary Limited operates a farm west of Bundaberg and is an approved employer under the Pacific Australia Labor Mobility Scheme.
00:05:01
Speaker
The FWO alleges the company put in place a policy to fine employees $500 for breaches of the company's alcohol policy, which stated there was zero tolerance for workers under the influence of alcohol while staying at work site accommodation. Between March and January 2022, 29 employees faced fines under the alcohol policy totaling $14,500.
00:05:24
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The farm workers who were from the Pacific Island country, of Vanuatu, performed tasks such as cutting and sorting sweet potato vines, planting and packaging sweet potatoes, weeding and general farm tasks. In some instances, employees were only left with take-home weekly pay of $150 following the unlawful deductions. The FWO is seeking penalties against the company and its sole director, Russell McChrystal, for alleged contraventions of the Fair Work Act which carries penalties of up to $66,600 per contravention. Fair Work Ombudsman Anna Booth said the litigation highlighted the importance the workplace regulator places on the rights of visa holders. American employers added 254,000 jobs in September, defying fears of a slowdown in the US labor market. Job creation unexpectedly accelerated in September, while the headline unemployment rate was 4.1%
00:06:20
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down from 4.2% in August. Economists forecast a non-farm jobs growth of around 132,500 for September after a subdued summer of employment growth. Hiring instead rose sharply from August when employers added 159,000 jobs and July when jobs growth was 144,000. Both estimates for July and August were revised higher by the Bureau of Labor Statistics on Friday, adding 72,000 more jobs than previously reported highlighting the strength of the US labor market. The pressure on the employees of big consulting firms was revealed last month when the AFR published an internal email from a partner to KPMG consulting employees. A survey of staff doing technology work in the firm's consulting division found that only 47% of employees felt they were able to sustain the energy they needed to do their work.
00:07:15
Speaker
The survey results sent to staff in late August also reported that only 44% agreed that their leaders considered their health and wellbeing to be equally important as getting the job done. As part of an $80 million dollars cost cutting exercise this year, 200 roles were made redundant in the advisory division of KPMG. Partners and directors have also felt additional pressure due to a new mandatory pricing tool designed to stop senior advisors from selling work that helps them hit their annual performance targets, but is not profitable because of the cost of delivering it.
00:07:50
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KPMG directors are expected to sell work with $2 million dollars or more annually, bill at least $1.5 million dollars a year and carry out advisory work worth at least $365,000. They are also expected to bill at least 50% of their work hours to client work. A study by Global Human Resources Platform Remote has found that more than half of Australia's tech companies are losing workers after bringing back strict in-office mandates.
00:08:19
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After surveying more than 4,000 businesses, including 506 litres in Australia, the study found 58% of local tech companies were losing their staff to rivals who offered better flexibility. 74% of businesses reported increased demand for flexible working arrangements, giving big names like Atlassian, Telstra and Medibank, who've all declared working from home is here to stay a competitive edge.
00:08:45
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Atlassian is aggressively targeting workers disillusioned by return to office mandates by encouraging them to apply for the software giant's 300 plus jobs. South Australia's Corruption Watchdog says recruitment processes for ministerial advisors should be strengthened and aligned with public sector guidelines. In a new report, the Independent Commission Against Corruption, SA, notes that when it comes to governance expectations and accountability, there is considerable divergence between public sector agencies and ministerial advisors, particularly when it comes to recruitment and pre-employment screening.
00:09:21
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Unlike public sector employees, ministerial advisers require no police checks and security clearances. This leaves the government exposed to significant corruption risks it must be addressed, says ICAC, SA Commissioner and Vanstone in the reports forward. The SA government would do well to emulate other jurisdictions, suggests the report's authors.
00:09:42
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For example, they note that the Victorian Government's Code of Conduct is incorporated into the employment contracts for ministerial staff. As well, criminal history checks are a standard requirement for appointments to ministerial officers in Queensland and New South Wales. And that's the news for the week beginning 7th October 2024. I'm Ross Clennett.
00:10:15
Speaker
Question of the week. Adele, is job hopping now acceptable? That's a hard no, Ross. Job hopping is always an issue, has always been an issue and will continue to be an issue. Really?
00:10:30
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Really? yeah isn so Isn't this that the Gen X in you coming out? Isn't drop hopping now? You know, post COVID, isn't it much more acceptable? Isn't it just part of being Gen Z and we're just stuck in our ways as Gen X's? Well, part of it could be that. I mean, you know, generationally, yes, we were we were told to stick it out and um stick at things when it got hard and not move around. And, and you know, we certainly um not necessarily valued loyalty in the same way as our baby boomer counterparts, but certainly sticking something out and when it, you know, when it got tough, the tough got going kind of idea. But I'm surprised to hear you say that because you're a Gen X as well. So why do you say um the opposite of that? You're saying perhaps that job hopping is acceptable?
00:11:18
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I say it with the personal experience of my two eldest children, Gen Zs, quitting their, not their current job, but their jobs prior to that, after three ah three months in my son's case and four months in my daughter's case, without jobs to go to, to get another job, and also a survey, which I read 2024 Gen Z and Millennial Survey from Deloitte reports 44% of Gen Zs reject a potential employer that doesn't align with their personal beliefs. 50% reject internal projects or assignments with their current employers that don't align with their values. 21% of Gen Zs would consider other jobs if their employer is not engaged in social issues. 75% are more likely to consider other jobs that better align.
00:12:05
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with their values. So I think the transparency of available jobs and what different employers act on with respect to social beliefs, their work from home policies, all of those things make the job seeking environment more information rich, Adele. And because people, workers,
00:12:32
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um Gen Zs in particular, ah more information rich about what's out there, they're much more likely to go looking for other jobs compared to in our era, when you just couldn't find this stuff out. And not as many of those things that I read out concerned us as a general workforce. And it was kind of more just about money and career opportunities, not those other things.
00:13:02
Speaker
Look, I understand what you're saying, and I think that's right. And in some ways, there's a bit of, um I guess, you know, I guess we might be a little jealous of looking at the ability to have those freedoms of of being unencumbered and not having things that restrict them from making those decisions. If they don't like something, they can get up and leave. And us Gen Xs, you know, didn't do that. And now we find it hard to accept it.
00:13:28
Speaker
But that's the point I'm making. That's why I'm saying I don't think job hopping is acceptable because the GenXs and the baby boomers are the hiring managers in most cases right now. you know That's the generation that's looking at people's CVs and saying, why did this person move around so much? And that's a real issue in recruitment you know without with our clients and our candidates that you have to kind of counterbalance. it's all it's That's why I'm saying it's a big issue because the hiring manager still sees it as an issue. even if the generation thinks it's acceptable and they've gotten used to it and they've got access to all the information and they want to move around, it's that divide between the candidate and the client.
00:14:04
Speaker
All right. Well, okay. That might be the case, but hello, Gen X. Hello, baby boomers. Have you noticed what's happened post COVID? Haven't you noticed that there is unemployment at 4.2% like record job vacancies? Have you not noticed that there's a cost of living crisis? Have you not noticed that remote work and flexible work is a big factor?
00:14:34
Speaker
in people choosing to stay or go in terms of work. Like, haven't they noticed those things? Don't they understand how significant those things are? I mean, it's all well and good for a Gen X hiring manager on 150 or 200,000.
00:14:52
Speaker
to be pontificating on high about job hopping. But what if you're a candidate who's on 65 who sees an opportunity at 80 that they can get and then 18 months later or an opportunity at 95? I mean, wouldn't you be taking those opportunities? Frankly, I just think it's very hypocritical for the older hiring managers to be judging younger people for pursuing better career opportunities and better immunization when, frankly, I reckon if they were in the same position, they'd be doing the same thing, too. Well, maybe their memories are short. You know, maybe they did and they've forgotten it. Or, you know, I guess they probably feel like they don't need to. You know, once you get to a certain age and stage in your career, you don't need to job hop in order to negotiate the things you want. You're probably more likely to be able to go to your manager after five or 10 years in one
00:15:47
Speaker
job and say, this isn't working for me, or this isn't suitable, or I'd like this, and and your company is more likely to go into a negotiation, they thereby preventing you having to leave to get what you want. Whereas when you are in your kind of 20s and 30s, you probably have to leave in order to increase pay or get better conditions. You you don't have the currency of negotiation that you will do in your order.
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah, look, I think, I think that's, that's true. And certainly the evidence again, very strong. You look at official data and people who move jobs receive on average, higher annual increases in their remuneration compared to people who stay. Um, and that propels people to go looking for.
00:16:36
Speaker
new opportunities. And of course with recruiters becoming more aggressive and with the visibility of candidates on LinkedIn, like back in the day when I was in my 20s as a recruiter, headhunting was a luxury just for executive search firms with research departments, whereas now With free LinkedIn, any recruiter can really be a headhunter. So more candidates are being approached about more opportunities than ever before. So all of that is fueling the growth in candidates or job seekers being drawn onto the market, even if they're not necessarily looking and being presented with better opportunities. And if they really are better, who's to blame them if they accept them? and like That's a really interesting point you make about salaries, because I think that's another thing in the recruitment process that has some stigma attached to it, that when a candidate is moving jobs, you know, the hiring manager says, you know, what are they currently on and what are they looking to move or what's their salary expectation? And they make the judgment call whether they think it's too high a jump. But that's the reason you move when you're younger. You know, you don't have, as I said, that ability to negotiate always in your in your current role. So you have to move jobs in order to, you know, grow your salary at an accelerated rate. And I think
00:17:57
Speaker
We have to get managers to um undo that that thought process um or you know talk to our clients about undoing that thought process that the person should want more money. That's absolutely the reason why they're moving. They're moving because they want more money and that needs to be acceptable.
00:18:13
Speaker
end As a generalisation, the better candidates are more ambitious and they want more money. Not always, because clearly some people are deluded about their capabilities and want more money anyway, but generally the more ambitious, highly skilled candidates are the ones who want to move to get a better opportunity and want more money.
00:18:34
Speaker
Now, isn't that what most hiring managers want? Don't they want a better caliber of candidate? Don't they want a more ambitious candidate? Not for all jobs, but for many jobs. So again, like, you can't have your cake and eat it too. It's like, I can't You can't want a really good person with really good skills. And then on the other hand, kind of diss them because oh they're job hopping. It's like, come on, you got to be realistic here. So I think it's about managing expectations. Certainly for recruiters listening to this, it's certainly about having those conversations early on with clients about the caliber of candidates, what's going on in the job market and some of those influences. But I think ah there's a candidate side too, right? To this in terms of managing expectations.
00:19:18
Speaker
so For sure. I mean, ah candidates can be as ambitious as they like, but the recruiter also needs to provide a reality check to make sure that the candidate doesn't think just because they want X, Y and Z in the job for salary B, that they're going to get it. um As a recruiter, if if you know that that candidate for that type of opportunity is going to be up against candidates who on paper look to have a more solid CV and those candidates on paper are going to be the ones that the client leans towards then it's your duty to give the candidate the reality check not to not represent them or say don't be that ambitious but just to say this is the reality of who you're up against.
00:20:08
Speaker
I think that's where recruiter you know market knowledge comes into play and that real consulting element of what we do, right? Very much. We know what's happening and who they're being compared to and what it looks like. And that's where you need to have those honest conversations with your candidates. Definitely. This is one of the advantages of being a market specialist that you can provide that sort of honest feedback with confidence to the job seeker and let them know what you can and can't do for them and then see how the job seeker responds.
00:20:37
Speaker
So in conclusion, is job hopping more acceptable now? What are we saying? I think it's definitely more acceptable. And I think recruiters just need to be ready to challenge the fixed mindset of many hiring managers around that. Let's call it the pre-COVID mindset around job hopping and say to the hiring manager, respectfully, of course, hey, you know, welcome to 2024.
00:21:06
Speaker
This is what it's like. And if you want the best people, then I suggest you need to adjust your mindset around what you perceive to be as a job hopper. You're suggesting recruiters consult. Russ, is that the final takeaway from this? That's right. Consult and educate Adele, like all the their very best recruiters always have done. Hey, are you liking listening to our podcast Recruitment News Australia?
00:21:35
Speaker
If you are, it would really help if you could give Ross Clannan and I a five-star review. On whatever podcast app you listen to it on, please hop onto the review section and give us a review next time you're listening on your favorite episode. And thanks for listening.