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Ep 112: Save That Cat!
57 Plays2 years ago
Centaur has been revealed and we give our first impressions. We also give our thoughts on the Homepin interview, Pinball Hall of Fame, and some of the rumors that have been making the rounds.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Episode 112
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:09
Speaker
We are on episode 112.
00:00:11
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:12
Speaker
With me, my co-captain, as always.
Pinball Community Rumors
00:00:14
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:15
Speaker
And Scott, rumors are dropping.
00:00:18
Speaker
Man.
00:00:18
Speaker
Games are being released.
00:00:20
Speaker
Fireworks.
00:00:21
Speaker
Good.
00:00:21
Speaker
Cry me.
00:00:22
Speaker
If you want that sweet, sweet game, who are you going to be calling?
00:00:25
Speaker
Well, flipping out pinball.
00:00:27
Speaker
And let me tell you what I did.
Insider Connected Kits Installation
00:00:30
Speaker
I actually bought five insider connected kits.
00:00:33
Speaker
Dang.
00:00:34
Speaker
And I put them in.
00:00:35
Speaker
Actually, Iron Maiden already had one.
00:00:38
Speaker
I put one in Infinity Quest.
00:00:41
Speaker
I put one in Jurassic Park.
00:00:43
Speaker
I put one in Deadpool and I put one in Led Zeppelin.
00:00:45
Speaker
And I immediately got the GC on Led Zeppelin.
00:00:50
Speaker
Uh, I'm not saying it was because of that, but it's pretty much, I think I put some Zach mini into the game.
00:00:57
Speaker
Nice.
00:00:58
Speaker
So of course I got it basically on my first ball and then the last next two balls, I totally drained, but yeah, we, we won't really talk about that.
Flipping Out Pinball Story
00:01:05
Speaker
I don't blame you.
00:01:06
Speaker
But absolutely.
00:01:07
Speaker
Zach and Nicole, they've always been good for us.
00:01:09
Speaker
So reach out to them.
00:01:10
Speaker
Flipping out pinball.
00:01:12
Speaker
I love their honesty.
00:01:14
Speaker
I helped a friend get a Godzilla premium from them this week.
00:01:18
Speaker
And they said, well, here's the situation.
00:01:19
Speaker
We do have one.
00:01:21
Speaker
But there is a hole in the box.
00:01:23
Speaker
And we understand if you do not want that.
00:01:25
Speaker
And the family is like, we want it.
00:01:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:28
Speaker
He says there's no damage to the game, but I just wanted to let you know.
00:01:31
Speaker
And that's fair because, you know, it's, you know how easy he could have just shipped that out and then it could have got to the homeowner and he could have just claimed, Oh, it must've got damaged in transit, you know?
00:01:44
Speaker
You know what?
00:01:44
Speaker
He was upfront and honest about it.
00:01:45
Speaker
And I think that creates less problems.
00:01:47
Speaker
And that is a lot of transparency you want in a company.
00:01:50
Speaker
No nonsense.
00:01:51
Speaker
No nonsense.
00:01:52
Speaker
Well, cool.
Centaur 2.0 Release Discussion
00:01:53
Speaker
Speaking of releases, I think the biggest news we have this week out of everything that's starting to swell is Centaur 2.0 or Revisited as they're branding it.
00:02:03
Speaker
Resurrected.
00:02:04
Speaker
Resurrected.
00:02:05
Speaker
From Haggis Pinball.
00:02:07
Speaker
They totally should have used that.
00:02:08
Speaker
They should have.
00:02:09
Speaker
Like, why should you like, and come on Centaur, the dude looks like he's some, some beast from hell.
00:02:15
Speaker
Yes.
00:02:16
Speaker
No, I totally.
00:02:17
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:02:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:02:19
Speaker
What are you thinking release wise of this game?
00:02:22
Speaker
Do you, let's, let's talk about the actual game itself before we get into any of the haggis shenanigans.
00:02:28
Speaker
Do you think Centaur is a smart game to, to revisit?
00:02:32
Speaker
It's a well-respected game.
00:02:35
Speaker
I would argue, though, it's probably more known for the art package than the gameplay.
00:02:42
Speaker
I would agree because it's very limited in production as well.
00:02:46
Speaker
Right.
00:02:47
Speaker
And it certainly looks cool.
00:02:49
Speaker
And I do like that they went with more of that retro feel.
00:02:54
Speaker
It kind of looks like a Pulp Fiction cabinet.
00:02:57
Speaker
Yep.
00:02:57
Speaker
No, I agree.
00:02:57
Speaker
So I do like that.
00:03:01
Speaker
Man, I will say the price point they're shooting for, wow, you have to be a big fan of this game.
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:10
Speaker
And that's the challenge is that it's super expensive.
00:03:14
Speaker
The Australian dollar on it's $15,000 for the base model and then $25,000.
00:03:19
Speaker
This is Australian for the Orblivian model.
00:03:24
Speaker
But no, I agree.
00:03:26
Speaker
I think the art is very classic.
00:03:27
Speaker
It's very unique.
00:03:28
Speaker
You don't see this on almost any other pinball machine.
00:03:32
Speaker
I'm not just talking just about the black and white.
00:03:34
Speaker
I'm talking about the actual art package itself.
00:03:37
Speaker
Well, let's also point out something.
Gameplay and Design of Centaur
00:03:39
Speaker
This is interesting because it does have...
00:03:45
Speaker
it does have an attractive woman on there, but it's not the, it's not the objectified version, which you see so much from this version in pinball.
00:03:56
Speaker
I mean, I would say both the centaur and, you know, and the woman in the back glass, they, they look like they're both really tough.
00:04:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:07
Speaker
And which is, is totally unique for this, uh,
00:04:11
Speaker
for this era of pinball.
00:04:13
Speaker
And so I do appreciate that.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
I like, if you've never played Santar, I don't know if pinball arcade, I guess they still don't have it.
00:04:22
Speaker
Cause it's a, it's a ballet game.
00:04:23
Speaker
I know.
00:04:23
Speaker
I still have it on my phone.
00:04:24
Speaker
Cause I bought it before they lost the license.
00:04:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:27
Speaker
It's a very unique play.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:31
Speaker
rule set and what's even more unique is you can work on earning adding more balls into your multi ball yeah so it's kind of like a risk reward and cashing out and getting more you know four three times four times whatnot and the shots are intriguing because there's that left
00:04:49
Speaker
Like, you know how Godzilla goes behind the flipper?
00:04:51
Speaker
It's got that little cove that goes around the backside of the flipper.
00:04:55
Speaker
That's similar on Centaur, but when it comes out the other end, it has a captive ball and you can hit that and it goes up through some inline drop targets.
00:05:06
Speaker
It's very unique in its play.
00:05:08
Speaker
It's very brutal.
00:05:09
Speaker
It is not a forgiving game.
00:05:11
Speaker
No.
00:05:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:12
Speaker
Well, most of these games from this era are.
00:05:14
Speaker
I mean, they're known for just being coin takers.
00:05:19
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
I'm excited to see this because, like I said, the production's low.
00:05:24
Speaker
It's a very sought-after game.
00:05:28
Speaker
But like you said, I think the biggest hurdle on this one is the money.
00:05:32
Speaker
But to counteract that,
00:05:35
Speaker
I feel like they went with
Collector Market and Limited Editions
00:05:37
Speaker
less of a run, right?
00:05:37
Speaker
There's only 250 of the Rebellion model.
00:05:43
Speaker
Is that what it is?
00:05:44
Speaker
I can't remember.
00:05:45
Speaker
And then the Oblivion's only 50.
00:05:47
Speaker
So 300 units total.
00:05:49
Speaker
I mean, we talk about supply and demand on the show all the time.
00:05:52
Speaker
If you definitely want to up your price, you lower your supply.
00:05:55
Speaker
Right.
00:05:56
Speaker
Because there are people who are collectors and they want that thing that no one else can have.
00:06:02
Speaker
Yep, and this is definitely going to make it to where people aren't going to be able to obtain it.
00:06:07
Speaker
We've also talked about the economy of pinball and the economy in general taking a dip.
00:06:12
Speaker
Do you think Haggis sells out?
00:06:15
Speaker
Because these have officially started selling.
00:06:17
Speaker
They start this Wednesday, actually, at like 11 in the morning.
00:06:22
Speaker
I don't know if that's – it's probably their time, so it's probably like 5 o'clock our time or something like that.
00:06:28
Speaker
I don't know.
00:06:31
Speaker
The high-end will.
00:06:34
Speaker
For 50, you are going to get, there are at least 50 whale collectors out there.
Debate on Playfield Colorization
00:06:42
Speaker
And that's a gambling term.
00:06:44
Speaker
The whales are the big fish that the casinos are all trying to get.
00:06:50
Speaker
And I know, I know whales, not a fish, but you ever watched James Bond's casino Royale.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yep.
00:06:55
Speaker
Yep.
00:06:55
Speaker
All the whales are sitting there, you know?
00:06:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:57
Speaker
So that, so at such a limited number, you are going to get buy-in from these collectors.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:05
Speaker
This is definitely taking it to a more exclusive club.
00:07:12
Speaker
I'm not sure about the entire run though.
00:07:14
Speaker
I, so I think the, the high ends.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:17
Speaker
The entire run, maybe you are also competing with Godzilla Premium.
00:07:24
Speaker
You're competing with Jurassic Park Premium.
00:07:27
Speaker
You're competing against Foo Fighters, all these games.
00:07:32
Speaker
So whether or not you can actually command that price, you have to make sure that the collector wants to secure that spot in his or her lineup.
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:45
Speaker
And I think...
00:07:46
Speaker
You know what?
00:07:47
Speaker
I agree with you on the 50.
00:07:49
Speaker
Do you think that the colorization of the play field will be a, do you think it'll be a perk or do you think it'll actually be a hurdle?
00:07:56
Speaker
Because it's so iconic with the black and white.
00:07:59
Speaker
I thought it was very interesting to decide to go with color on that limited 50, which truly makes it stand out as a limited edition because you're never going to see that anywhere else.
00:08:08
Speaker
In 50 games, I mean, that's nothing for the world.
00:08:11
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:08:12
Speaker
That's a tiny bit.
00:08:14
Speaker
I, I, it's hard to tell because anytime you put color in, you are at risk of, of what's the, what's the comment that people always make when people throw in just like a bunch of LEDs into the game.
00:08:31
Speaker
It's like palm puke or whatever.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:34
Speaker
So as, but it looks like from when I'm looking at it, that it looks more subdued.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:43
Speaker
So this doesn't feel like a, there is that tipping point where it looks like,
00:08:52
Speaker
it looks like a casino game.
00:08:53
Speaker
I mean, cause the casino games are drenched in rainbow color, just every, every color there.
00:08:59
Speaker
They're just trying to scream for your attention.
00:09:02
Speaker
This seems a little more subdued just on the pictures that they're giving anyway.
00:09:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:09
Speaker
So I think it's going to be fine.
00:09:10
Speaker
I don't think it actually detracts that much.
00:09:13
Speaker
The back glass is still that classic, you know,
00:09:17
Speaker
It's mostly black and white.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah, there's a few color in there, but I don't see this as being much of an issue because it does look like retro colors.
Centaur's Market Position
00:09:28
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:09:30
Speaker
I think they've done very well with it.
00:09:32
Speaker
I think the actual product of the game is very nice.
00:09:36
Speaker
I do have a hard time.
00:09:37
Speaker
I think they said translated.
00:09:39
Speaker
Don't quote me on this.
00:09:40
Speaker
Don't be calling flipping out because they are the exclusive U.S. dealer for this game.
00:09:46
Speaker
I heard that the U.S. dollar was 12,000 for the base model, 15 for the limited.
00:09:51
Speaker
So it's not too far out of the park where pinball prices are at right now.
00:09:55
Speaker
I mean, that's that lines up with a J.J.P.
00:09:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:57
Speaker
And they're.
00:09:59
Speaker
we played fathom mermaid.
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:02
Speaker
It was great.
00:10:03
Speaker
It was amazing.
00:10:03
Speaker
It felt solid.
00:10:04
Speaker
It felt, it felt like it was amazing.
00:10:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:08
Speaker
It like that one felt like it was resurrected from a previous version of itself, like a Phoenix rising.
00:10:15
Speaker
What was amazing is if you've ever played these older games,
00:10:18
Speaker
you can always tell that they're definitely used, right?
00:10:20
Speaker
Like they're sluggish.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yep.
00:10:22
Speaker
There's a lot of floatiness to it.
00:10:24
Speaker
Mermaid did have a little bit of that floatiness, but the flippers felt amazing and traditional.
00:10:30
Speaker
And I would say the floaty felt era appropriate, like era appropriate.
00:10:36
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:10:37
Speaker
So it didn't feel like a, you know, it is interesting though.
00:10:42
Speaker
I did message you and the triple drain guys.
00:10:46
Speaker
We talk a lot in the background.
00:10:49
Speaker
And I went and played my friend's Medieval Madness Royal Edition.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:54
Speaker
And I've played it before, but there is something that feels slightly different about that version of the game versus my version.
00:11:03
Speaker
And I have the standard version.
00:11:05
Speaker
I'm pretty sure it was made in the Stern factory.
00:11:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:10
Speaker
And it feels very much, it feels very similar to a Stern game.
Sales Strategy Speculation
00:11:15
Speaker
Now, I don't notice much of a difference with
00:11:18
Speaker
with attack from Mars, cause that was definitely made in a CGC factory, but for some reason, just maybe what I'm used to with mine, it feels different.
00:11:29
Speaker
And so I don't know if anyone else has had that situation, but with this remake, I mean, if you are a centaur fan, you're going to buy it.
00:11:38
Speaker
Definitely.
00:11:40
Speaker
No, I agree.
00:11:42
Speaker
Overall.
00:11:43
Speaker
I don't know.
00:11:44
Speaker
I'm,
00:11:44
Speaker
Happy for anyone that is getting this game.
00:11:46
Speaker
I think you've got a solid game on your hands.
00:11:50
Speaker
I don't go reading through every comment on the forum, but everyone that has received their Haggis game, whether it be Celts or Fathom has been very happy with it.
00:11:59
Speaker
I haven't heard of any issues across the board and they're built like a tank.
00:12:04
Speaker
Like they are not, I mean, with that, that nice plastic coating on top, it protects your play field.
00:12:12
Speaker
It,
00:12:12
Speaker
And it's not like a plastic playfield protector.
00:12:15
Speaker
It's something that feels like a playfield without ruining the playfield.
00:12:20
Speaker
So just you're getting a good quality product.
00:12:24
Speaker
I think this is a smart move by Haggis to keep the numbers down.
00:12:30
Speaker
I am a little nervous just because if you remember when Fathom was released, they gave it like two weeks or something like that to sell out.
Centaur's Theme Song Critique
00:12:39
Speaker
And it seemed like they're at the tail end
00:12:43
Speaker
dealers bought out the rest to kind of sell out that run right and that was at a cheaper price point than what we have at centaur so i'm gonna be interested especially with just zach being the dealer for america if if they'll sell out like they did before uh time will tell we'll see we'll see hopefully haggis will keep us updated as things progress on wednesday so uh i gotta mention one thing though before we get off this topic
00:13:14
Speaker
I love you guys.
00:13:15
Speaker
I love you, Haggis.
00:13:17
Speaker
I really respect Martin.
00:13:20
Speaker
Guys, that song, I've been making fun of it for like three days now, four days now.
00:13:26
Speaker
And I don't think it's the song itself.
00:13:28
Speaker
Like, you can definitely tell it is very inspired by Rammstein.
00:13:34
Speaker
But the lyrics...
00:13:35
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:13:36
Speaker
We have been yelling half man at each other at my household and people have just been randomly messaging me half machine.
00:13:45
Speaker
It's like, Hey, that's great.
00:13:46
Speaker
It's like, it's like the lion man, lion man.
00:13:50
Speaker
It's, it's like you typed into chat GPT, what lyrics you wanted for a Rammstein song.
00:13:57
Speaker
And it, and that's what it gave you.
00:14:00
Speaker
Who's to say that's not what they did.
00:14:02
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:14:03
Speaker
It's just, it's rough.
00:14:05
Speaker
The lyrics are rough.
00:14:06
Speaker
It takes me out of the experience.
00:14:10
Speaker
What do you think it should sound like?
00:14:12
Speaker
That's my question.
00:14:13
Speaker
You know what?
00:14:14
Speaker
And honestly, I got to think about the Rammstein feels probably correct for Centaur.
00:14:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:19
Speaker
It's the lyrics.
00:14:20
Speaker
It's the lyrics that get me.
00:14:21
Speaker
Cause the funny part is, is,
00:14:23
Speaker
I was listening to this super quiet.
00:14:25
Speaker
It was 4th of July night.
00:14:26
Speaker
We all got in bed because they just revealed it on the 4th of July Independence Day for America.
00:14:31
Speaker
And I had it so quiet.
00:14:32
Speaker
I'm like, is that Rammstein?
00:14:34
Speaker
And as I'm watching the video, all of a sudden I heard like, half man.
00:14:39
Speaker
And I'm like, what was that?
00:14:41
Speaker
But the problem was, is like,
00:14:43
Speaker
I'm in bed.
00:14:43
Speaker
The kids are asleep.
00:14:44
Speaker
I don't want to be blaring music.
00:14:45
Speaker
So I was like, I'll just listen to it in the morning.
00:14:47
Speaker
And then we all got on our chats and we're just listening to the song together.
00:14:52
Speaker
And it was just, Oh my goodness.
00:14:54
Speaker
Like keep the, why even put lyrics to it?
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:59
Speaker
And, and that's, that's probably where they would, they should retool it is just have it, uh,
00:15:06
Speaker
Kind of that thrash metal type vibe, yeah.
00:15:10
Speaker
Did you order the song off of Wish?
00:15:12
Speaker
Like, where did...
00:15:13
Speaker
Who wrote the lyrics to this?
00:15:14
Speaker
Maybe they ordered it from the, the Rammstein wish site, but it doesn't always come out the way you think.
00:15:21
Speaker
Maybe they gave a sandwich to the same guy that was supposed to do the USB stuff for home.
00:15:25
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:15:25
Speaker
We are going to get into that.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:30
Speaker
For haggis and the reveal and everything.
00:15:32
Speaker
They're going to, they're going to retool that.
00:15:34
Speaker
There's no way that's going to be the, the end, but Hey, we, it was memorable.
00:15:40
Speaker
That seems to be the new meta, right?
00:15:42
Speaker
We've got this now.
00:15:44
Speaker
Space Hunt.
00:15:47
Speaker
What was some of the other ones we were talking about this?
00:15:50
Speaker
It's come out just this year.
00:15:52
Speaker
All the songs, for some odd reason, have just been really rough for reveals.
00:15:57
Speaker
Like Galactic Tank Force.
00:16:02
Speaker
Not everybody can reveal to Welcome to the Jungle.
00:16:05
Speaker
True.
00:16:06
Speaker
Oh, that brings up the slash Godfather theme.
00:16:10
Speaker
Like, I had a lot of people like, oh, that's just a little too much.
00:16:15
Speaker
And it's just it's just funny because I don't feel like anyone this this year has released a pinball machine.
00:16:20
Speaker
And they've been like, you know what?
00:16:23
Speaker
The music has been so spot on.
00:16:25
Speaker
Nailed it.
00:16:26
Speaker
And with Foo Fighters, it's their music.
00:16:28
Speaker
So how do you like.
00:16:29
Speaker
If you have a music pin, I mean, there's a reason why you're making a music pin because their music is iconic.
00:16:36
Speaker
Correct.
00:16:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:39
Speaker
And if you're Scott Denisi, I mean.
00:16:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:41
Speaker
You know, no one goes like, why did he put that in this?
00:16:45
Speaker
They usually buy Final Resistance because of this music.
00:16:48
Speaker
Right.
00:16:48
Speaker
So just.
00:16:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:50
Speaker
Hopefully it gets retooled.
00:16:53
Speaker
And then I was the thing by the end of the trailer, the second or third time I watched, I'm like, are they going to put the song in Centaur?
00:17:00
Speaker
Maybe.
00:17:01
Speaker
I just don't feel like it'd be era appropriate.
00:17:04
Speaker
And granted, it won't be in the, it won't be in the original code, right?
00:17:07
Speaker
The original code is going to strive as much as possible to make it feel.
00:17:12
Speaker
Right.
00:17:12
Speaker
Feel like pretty much like Fathom where you have the updated code and the original code, the, the OG, the OEM.
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:22
Speaker
Okay, I'm off my soapbox.
00:17:25
Speaker
Just next time, next person that reveals a game, please.
00:17:29
Speaker
I don't know.
00:17:29
Speaker
Just run it by Josh.
00:17:31
Speaker
Don't do lyrics.
00:17:32
Speaker
I don't know.
00:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know.
00:17:36
Speaker
Oh, my goodness.
00:17:37
Speaker
Speaking of home pin, let's move on to some home pin magic because I've got money in my
HomePin Controversy
00:17:42
Speaker
pocket.
00:17:42
Speaker
I don't know.
00:17:43
Speaker
To start with now, Josh, we'll get into this.
00:17:46
Speaker
You just got back from the Pinball Hall of Fame.
00:17:48
Speaker
Correct.
00:17:49
Speaker
Correct.
00:17:50
Speaker
So Mike from home pin has said all the people who are complaining about his game, his games are the ones who haven't played it.
00:18:00
Speaker
And it's, according to him, they're just trying to, it's kind of like hating Nickelback.
00:18:07
Speaker
It's like, well, I, you hate nickel.
00:18:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:10
Speaker
The cool kids hate Nickelback.
00:18:12
Speaker
So they should.
00:18:13
Speaker
So that's kind of the assertion that if you don't like this, you're just piling on to get your, his words, 15 minutes of fame.
00:18:21
Speaker
Not sure you're getting much fame off that, but you actually played these two games.
00:18:28
Speaker
So give me the skinny.
00:18:30
Speaker
Sorry.
00:18:31
Speaker
So I'm going to refer to you.
00:18:33
Speaker
So Aussie pinball podcast, Dr. John front of the show.
00:18:37
Speaker
Dr. John.
00:18:38
Speaker
He did an interview with Mike from HomePin.
00:18:41
Speaker
I don't even know if his last name – it's always just Mike from HomePin, right?
00:18:44
Speaker
And like you stated – I think his first name is Magic.
00:18:48
Speaker
I'm going to bring up some stuff from the interview first because I know that it's been talked about.
00:18:52
Speaker
But there are some things that have not been talked about this interview because it was just dripping with so much information.
00:18:59
Speaker
I don't know if else you want to call it.
00:19:01
Speaker
But like you said, for someone to –
00:19:04
Speaker
Mike feels picked on because jumping on the bandwagon to hate his games is so you can only get your 15 minutes of fame.
00:19:13
Speaker
His last name is Kalinowski.
00:19:15
Speaker
Oh, good to know.
00:19:16
Speaker
Kalinowski.
00:19:17
Speaker
Mike Kalinowski.
00:19:19
Speaker
I agree with you.
00:19:19
Speaker
It is similar to hating Nickelback, which I am not a fan of Nickelback.
00:19:23
Speaker
But that's the thing.
00:19:24
Speaker
Nickelback has multi... They sold like 16 million albums.
00:19:28
Speaker
Somebody bought them.
00:19:30
Speaker
Nickelback's a multi-platinum... It's like when Machine Gun Kelly wanted to become famous.
00:19:36
Speaker
He dissed Eminem so much that Eminem felt like he finally had to reply.
00:19:42
Speaker
And he got the publicity of Eminem dissing him.
00:19:45
Speaker
Right?
00:19:47
Speaker
I don't feel like anyone, even in the pinball industry, attacks Homepin for the fame.
00:19:53
Speaker
Well, let me bring up some numbers.
00:19:54
Speaker
Could I took some numbers down for you?
00:19:56
Speaker
Guess how many Stern followers?
00:19:59
Speaker
This is just Facebook, Facebook alone.
00:20:01
Speaker
How many followers do they have?
00:20:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:05
Speaker
This is me just shooting from the hip.
00:20:07
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:07
Speaker
I'm going to give you a range.
00:20:09
Speaker
I would say between 10 and 20,000.
00:20:12
Speaker
Stern pinball.
00:20:13
Speaker
Maybe even north of that.
00:20:14
Speaker
Stern pinball, 80,000 followers.
00:20:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:20
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:20
Speaker
80, 800,000 followers.
00:20:21
Speaker
I apologize.
00:20:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:24
Speaker
800,000.
00:20:24
Speaker
Just shy of a million.
00:20:25
Speaker
Million.
00:20:25
Speaker
We're okay.
00:20:27
Speaker
That's for a very niche product, which pinball is still niche.
00:20:32
Speaker
That's a very respectable number.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:36
Speaker
JJP is in second.
00:20:37
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:20:38
Speaker
43,000.
00:20:38
Speaker
That's still pretty respectable, right?
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:42
Speaker
Okay, but now compare it.
00:20:43
Speaker
Now, you said how much did you say for Stern?
00:20:46
Speaker
800,000.
00:20:46
Speaker
800,000.
00:20:47
Speaker
Let that soak in.
00:20:48
Speaker
800,000.
00:20:48
Speaker
And the next closest is JJP with 43,000.
00:20:50
Speaker
Which is 120th.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah, it's 5%.
00:21:00
Speaker
Which is probably comparable to the market share, to be frank.
00:21:07
Speaker
Spooky, who's been around for more than a decade.
00:21:09
Speaker
30?
00:21:10
Speaker
12,000.
00:21:11
Speaker
12,000, okay.
00:21:11
Speaker
Still respectful.
00:21:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:14
Speaker
American Pinball, they've been around for about five, six years now.
00:21:18
Speaker
I'm guessing five.
00:21:19
Speaker
I think 2017 was the inception.
00:21:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:22
Speaker
But still. 5,000?
00:21:24
Speaker
7,000.
00:21:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:25
Speaker
All right.
00:21:26
Speaker
Haggis.
00:21:27
Speaker
So Mike from home pin accused Haggis of stealing the plastic protector for the play field.
00:21:35
Speaker
Right.
00:21:36
Speaker
Guess how many followers they have?
00:21:38
Speaker
2000.
00:21:38
Speaker
And this was before sent Centaur.
00:21:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:41
Speaker
2000.
00:21:41
Speaker
4,000.
00:21:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:41
Speaker
All right.
00:21:43
Speaker
These are still respectable numbers, right?
00:21:45
Speaker
Still respectable numbers.
00:21:46
Speaker
Like we're not dissing on any of that.
00:21:48
Speaker
Exactly.
00:21:48
Speaker
Especially with, we're going kind of like chronologically.
00:21:51
Speaker
These, these,
00:21:52
Speaker
Companies haven't been out as long.
00:21:54
Speaker
Home pin has been out longer than haggis.
00:21:59
Speaker
Do you know how many followers they have?
00:22:02
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:22:04
Speaker
Home pin, they do not sell to unnamed country.
00:22:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:10
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:22:11
Speaker
It's the U S by the company, X, Y, Z, X, Y, Z, or a country X, Y, Z. Yeah.
00:22:17
Speaker
So they have zero presence in the United States.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yes.
00:22:22
Speaker
So we're going to take all of that out of the equation.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:27
Speaker
Let's assume that there are still, I mean, Facebook is still used internationally.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yep.
00:22:34
Speaker
But yeah,
00:22:35
Speaker
Given that you're showing this precipitous drop, I'm going to just throw out a number that may be 800.
00:22:41
Speaker
You're close.
00:22:44
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:45
Speaker
Just shy over a thousand.
00:22:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:47
Speaker
So.
00:22:48
Speaker
How many games have they made?
00:22:50
Speaker
Like, I'm not talking titles.
00:22:52
Speaker
I'm talking about how many games have they made?
00:22:55
Speaker
They've made three plus whatever Porsche.
00:22:58
Speaker
I think they've roughly made five.
00:23:00
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:01
Speaker
Technically, only two are available publicly.
00:23:04
Speaker
Sure.
00:23:04
Speaker
But how many total games have they made?
00:23:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:23:07
Speaker
Any idea on that?
00:23:09
Speaker
Not because on the, on the interview, he even talked about, they can do two play fields a day.
00:23:14
Speaker
Something like that.
00:23:16
Speaker
Is that what I heard?
00:23:17
Speaker
Something like that.
00:23:18
Speaker
So if it's two play fields a day, let's just say 20 work days.
00:23:22
Speaker
So the maximum production they can make is 40 a month.
00:23:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:28
Speaker
Right.
00:23:28
Speaker
Something like that.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:30
Speaker
So let's just assume that they're making, they're cranking these suckers out nonstop.
00:23:36
Speaker
Like in a year you're making, there's no way they're making, you know, they can't be that, that that's not even possible.
00:23:49
Speaker
Like there's no chance there's more than 300 of these games worldwide.
00:23:53
Speaker
No chance.
00:23:54
Speaker
So my point being is if loser kid pinball podcast, once there are 15 minutes of fame, we're not going to go after a company.
00:24:03
Speaker
It's not a target.
00:24:04
Speaker
Less followers.
00:24:06
Speaker
then we get more than double the listens per episode.
00:24:12
Speaker
It makes no sense for me to target your company, whether I like it or not, because I'm going to get famous off of it.
00:24:21
Speaker
That is such an arrogant little comment.
00:24:25
Speaker
It's narcissistic.
00:24:28
Speaker
This guy alone, this whole interview just got under my skin.
00:24:32
Speaker
Dude,
00:24:35
Speaker
you suck at pinball you suck at making it you suck at producing it and you sit there and you go off about america being you don't even say america because we shall not be named by the way he had according to him there were four people count them four yeah okay how many live in the united states
00:24:58
Speaker
Isn't it like 370 million?
00:25:01
Speaker
That's what I was going to say, like 330 million.
00:25:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:25:03
Speaker
By the way, if you look at, if you look at any medical reviews out there, by the way, so any, so my company, like we, we actually are one of the biggest anesthesia providers in Utah and we do easily 500 cases a day, just, just across the system.
00:25:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:25:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:27
Speaker
And the total amount of reviews we have on Google are like 15.
00:25:31
Speaker
And they're all from people who were ticked off for some reason or another.
00:25:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:35
Speaker
Well, you're not representative of the whole thing.
00:25:37
Speaker
So if you're talking to people with PayPal that you felt gained the system and left a bad taste in your mouth, that is such a weird cross section of, you know, okay, well, four people in the entire United States
00:25:56
Speaker
That's not representative of what's going on.
00:25:59
Speaker
And if you want to nuke an entire country, and by the way, the, one of the biggest economies on the, on the planet.
00:26:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:06
Speaker
Like, is that, is that really because you had a couple of bad business.
00:26:11
Speaker
Pinball economy.
00:26:12
Speaker
Like, hands down.
00:26:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:15
Speaker
Where's pinball made, Josh?
00:26:17
Speaker
Chicago, Illinois.
00:26:19
Speaker
Where's Chicago?
00:26:20
Speaker
Isn't it smack dab in the middle of the United States?
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:23
Speaker
Somewhere right there.
00:26:23
Speaker
A little north of middle, but yeah, I get what you're saying.
00:26:27
Speaker
And so it seems his attitude seems so bizarre.
00:26:32
Speaker
It really felt like he.
00:26:37
Speaker
There were so many things about his attitude that rubbed me the wrong way.
00:26:43
Speaker
Mike has said that he is not interested in score.
00:26:47
Speaker
He said the whole point of pinball, or at least for his the way he approaches it.
00:26:52
Speaker
is I just want to have a game that I can, you know, drink with my buddies and bang it around.
00:26:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:59
Speaker
And that's, that's really his, his attitude.
00:27:02
Speaker
It's like, I don't care if, if someone gets like a hundred points more than me or whatever, it's like, that's not the point.
00:27:10
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:27:11
Speaker
If it's not the point, why even have any rules?
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:15
Speaker
Why have any scoring whatsoever?
00:27:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:18
Speaker
Because if score doesn't matter, you,
00:27:22
Speaker
then why would you even worry about it?
00:27:25
Speaker
I agree.
00:27:26
Speaker
And coming out and saying that, look, all the people who know about pinball, this isn't for you.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:35
Speaker
That says, okay, imagine a car company coming out and saying, you know, all the people who know how to drive cars, this car isn't for you.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:47
Speaker
And the bottom line is because you...
00:27:50
Speaker
it doesn't hold up in comparison.
00:27:54
Speaker
It's still roughly the same price as a fully functional game.
00:28:01
Speaker
And you're, you're basically saying that I am offering you a product that is not that good.
00:28:09
Speaker
It's, it, it, it boggles my mind that like that.
00:28:13
Speaker
So who is your market?
00:28:15
Speaker
Like the, the naive, the,
00:28:17
Speaker
guy or girl who wants to have that cave, the game room that knows nothing other than theme.
00:28:27
Speaker
That's obviously the only market that he's catering to.
00:28:31
Speaker
The only market.
00:28:32
Speaker
And it just... This whole interview is just from top to bottom.
00:28:38
Speaker
John did a great job.
00:28:39
Speaker
He was very composed.
00:28:41
Speaker
Holy crap.
00:28:42
Speaker
I just... I don't get this, man.
00:28:46
Speaker
I don't get
00:28:48
Speaker
How you could uproot your life like majorly twice to make this product and not like you're banking your whole life on this product.
00:28:57
Speaker
And you're marketing it totally opposite.
00:28:59
Speaker
Mike, I've got if this doesn't work out, I've got a couple options for you.
00:29:04
Speaker
A ham company specifically for Jewish people.
00:29:08
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:29:10
Speaker
An ice cream company for Eskimos.
00:29:15
Speaker
Ooh, an alcohol company for Eskimos.
00:29:17
Speaker
for members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
00:29:20
Speaker
How about that?
00:29:20
Speaker
That's a good one, right?
00:29:22
Speaker
Yeah, for teetotalers.
00:29:23
Speaker
Alcohol for teetotalers.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:29:26
Speaker
And if none of those work out, you know what?
00:29:28
Speaker
It just wasn't for them.
00:29:31
Speaker
It was, you know... Maybe he can go into Hovercrafts with Andrew Highway.
00:29:35
Speaker
Oh, maybe.
00:29:38
Speaker
Why?
00:29:38
Speaker
Like, just why?
00:29:40
Speaker
You know what?
00:29:41
Speaker
You are welcome.
00:29:42
Speaker
You're getting your 15 minutes of fame from us.
00:29:45
Speaker
Because this is probably the last time I want to even... Okay, but you... Now, okay, we're putting the cart before the horse, though.
00:29:51
Speaker
You played both of these games at the Pinball Hall of Fame.
00:29:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:55
Speaker
So tell me.
00:29:56
Speaker
How was it?
00:29:57
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:59
Speaker
I played Spinal Tap first.
00:30:01
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:03
Speaker
It's exactly what he said.
00:30:04
Speaker
It feels like a game made for people that just want to bang the ball around and have a beer with the buddy.
00:30:12
Speaker
I didn't care about score.
00:30:15
Speaker
Honestly, I couldn't drain if I wanted to try.
00:30:17
Speaker
It's very much, he's still stuck in like the 70s.
00:30:22
Speaker
So even though the layout's modern, you've got ramps, you got orbits and spinners and scoops.
00:30:29
Speaker
It still felt floaty and just weak like an EM.
00:30:35
Speaker
And the other part that really sucked, and maybe this is because it's on location, I don't know.
00:30:39
Speaker
You've got a left ramp, and the way that it's pitched is you get like two-thirds through that ramp.
00:30:49
Speaker
And if it still doesn't have enough juice, it still comes back through that ramp at you.
00:30:53
Speaker
It's like a J-pop ramp.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:55
Speaker
It's like a J pop ramp.
00:30:57
Speaker
But the funny part is it's not even like, you know, J pop ramps.
00:31:00
Speaker
They are like tilted to the, to the glass.
00:31:02
Speaker
Or like the George Gomez, like the, I can't remember with the left shot, a monster bash where you hit it.
00:31:09
Speaker
It's not steep, but it's long.
00:31:12
Speaker
And so if you don't strike it, it's not going to make it all the way up because the, the habit trail is so long.
00:31:19
Speaker
Exactly.
00:31:20
Speaker
That is a perfect example.
00:31:21
Speaker
That's how it feels.
00:31:22
Speaker
You shoot that shot.
00:31:24
Speaker
You watch it go up around the corner and hope it comes around the other corner.
00:31:28
Speaker
And if it doesn't, it trickles back at you.
00:31:31
Speaker
Like I said, that could be dribbles back.
00:31:34
Speaker
Dribbles.
00:31:36
Speaker
That could be a flipper issue.
00:31:37
Speaker
The flippers felt weak.
00:31:39
Speaker
They just, they felt like mush.
00:31:41
Speaker
It felt like it shot fine.
00:31:44
Speaker
Like the layout shot.
00:31:45
Speaker
I don't know.
00:31:47
Speaker
Define fine.
00:31:48
Speaker
Was that fun?
00:31:50
Speaker
It was very boring to me.
00:31:52
Speaker
Okay.
00:31:53
Speaker
I didn't feel any energy.
00:31:55
Speaker
I didn't feel any moments.
00:31:56
Speaker
The problem is you're playing a game where none of the scenes from the movie have anything to do with the gameplay.
00:32:03
Speaker
And they're seriously only two, three seconds long.
00:32:06
Speaker
Because you know when you're watching a movie, all you want is two, three seconds, right?
00:32:10
Speaker
Like when you're playing a pinball machine.
00:32:12
Speaker
Okay, other machines have integrated movie assets.
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, like Star Trek.
00:32:19
Speaker
Even though it's pulled directly from the movie, I love that those modes...
00:32:23
Speaker
are constantly spitting out lines from the same, like when you're playing, whether Spock and, and captain Kirk are trying to run and jump off the cliff.
00:32:31
Speaker
Right.
00:32:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:32
Speaker
And it's just spouting out those lines.
00:32:34
Speaker
It's, it's fantastic.
00:32:35
Speaker
This is just randomly, it has nothing to do with the mode, right?
00:32:37
Speaker
Like there was like banana mode and you had to shoot to like, unpeel the banana.
00:32:44
Speaker
But why even have a mode?
00:32:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:32:48
Speaker
All right.
00:32:49
Speaker
The scoop was how you started the modes, which is on the far left, similar to like a whirlwind.
00:32:55
Speaker
Every game?
00:32:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:56
Speaker
You know, granted, the layout, like I said, it was very reminiscent of the 90s Bally Williams.
00:33:03
Speaker
You've got a pop nest in the top right.
00:33:06
Speaker
The thing that confused the crap out of me is the skill shot, right?
00:33:11
Speaker
You pull it back and it looks kind of like, you know how Willy Wonka...
00:33:15
Speaker
you kind of have to get up in between a spot.
00:33:18
Speaker
And if you over plunge, it goes up around the top.
00:33:22
Speaker
I mean, a lot of power games like that, where you have to just hit the sweet spot.
00:33:26
Speaker
This one, I was trying to do that because I was like, oh, I've got to hit the sweet spot.
00:33:30
Speaker
I missed the first time.
00:33:31
Speaker
And the second time I just didn't care.
00:33:33
Speaker
And so I just full plunge.
00:33:35
Speaker
And then I realized, oh, if you full plunge every time, it just gives you the skill shot.
00:33:40
Speaker
Because, you know, that's skillful, right?
00:33:42
Speaker
Because it actually shot it through that hole and then up through the rollovers.
00:33:46
Speaker
It's a skill shot.
00:33:47
Speaker
And I'm like, for what?
00:33:49
Speaker
I did nothing besides pull back as hard as I want to.
00:33:52
Speaker
And my four-year-old can do that.
00:33:54
Speaker
That's probably the skill level he's shooting for.
00:33:56
Speaker
I'm actually surprised he has a plunger and not just like a button launcher.
00:34:01
Speaker
And you know what?
00:34:02
Speaker
Overall, if you're looking for...
00:34:05
Speaker
This is how it felt overall to me.
00:34:07
Speaker
It felt like if Zizzle got the go-ahead to make a full-size machine.
00:34:12
Speaker
If you want to Zizzle for the price of a Stern... If you want to Zizzle, just wait for Harry Potter.
00:34:18
Speaker
Good criminy.
00:34:19
Speaker
It just... Like I said, overall, it's not the worst game I've ever played.
00:34:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:27
Speaker
But it's not something you'd want to buy.
00:34:29
Speaker
No.
00:34:30
Speaker
Not even close.
00:34:31
Speaker
I feel bad to the people that this was their dream theme.
00:34:35
Speaker
because it feels like the kid that procrastinated his homework project up until the last point and then was like, here you go.
00:34:45
Speaker
And the teacher was like, this isn't even like a coherent statement.
00:34:49
Speaker
I guess that's a little mean to say because the layout does seem fine.
00:34:54
Speaker
It's better than Thunderbirds.
00:34:56
Speaker
Holy crap.
00:34:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:00
Speaker
Why?
00:35:01
Speaker
Why shoot this in a ramp?
00:35:03
Speaker
How many times is international rescue like 2025?
00:35:05
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:07
Speaker
Here's the funny thing about that.
00:35:09
Speaker
In the interview, they asked about it and he said they basically, it was the night before that they said, Oh, we have these lights back here.
00:35:20
Speaker
We don't really have anything programmed.
00:35:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:23
Speaker
Why is that not in your planning sessions?
00:35:28
Speaker
Like, that seems very odd that I can understand them not having a good idea for it, but saying, hey, we had all these lights here and we had no clue on what we were going to do with that.
00:35:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:43
Speaker
So that seems so bizarre that there wasn't some.
00:35:47
Speaker
So that's like a planning session you have in the first month of the game.
00:35:53
Speaker
It's not when you're about to ship it out the door.
00:35:55
Speaker
Why even put it in then?
00:35:57
Speaker
If you're like, oh, we don't know what this is going to do.
00:36:00
Speaker
And here's the thing about Thunderbirds is that center ramp is so close to those flippers.
00:36:10
Speaker
It's like, where else do I shoot?
00:36:12
Speaker
Because that ramp is right there.
00:36:14
Speaker
It just boggles my mind.
00:36:17
Speaker
Okay, you know, I said this isn't the worst game I have ever played.
00:36:21
Speaker
This would have another dollar in it, though.
00:36:24
Speaker
No, I didn't finish either game.
00:36:27
Speaker
That's the problem, though, is like by my second ball on Spinal Tap, I already earned two extra balls and still just hitting the ball around because that's, you know, hit the ball around to have a beer with the buddies.
00:36:39
Speaker
Right.
00:36:40
Speaker
And so I finally walked away from it because I just was so.
00:36:44
Speaker
uninterested in the game.
00:36:45
Speaker
It just, and I wanted to like it.
00:36:47
Speaker
I enjoy this is spinal tap.
00:36:49
Speaker
I think that is a great game, a great movie.
00:36:52
Speaker
Thunderbirds and spinal tap may not be the worst game I've ever played, but I'm comparing it to games that have been around for 40, 50 multiple years.
00:37:05
Speaker
This, these two games are by far the worst games being made in production today.
00:37:13
Speaker
I'm not saying quality.
00:37:14
Speaker
I'm not saying I'm saying gameplay.
00:37:17
Speaker
I am saying right.
00:37:19
Speaker
Theme integration.
00:37:20
Speaker
I'm saying artwork.
00:37:23
Speaker
They're just the rough.
00:37:26
Speaker
And it breaks my heart because like, I know I have a friend that loves Thunderbirds, right?
00:37:32
Speaker
That was their show growing up and they loved it so much so that like, it's just been a part of their life, their whole life.
00:37:40
Speaker
So when a Thunderbirds came out,
00:37:43
Speaker
It's one of the reasons it got them into pinball and they went and played it and just was so mad at the disrespect of.
00:37:53
Speaker
I think, I think it's lazy.
00:37:55
Speaker
I think that's what it comes down to.
00:37:58
Speaker
It's the disrespect of the, of the property.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:02
Speaker
just being that lazy shows that you're not caring for that property.
00:38:08
Speaker
Like someone that has grown up with these, like this wouldn't fly.
00:38:11
Speaker
If Stern was like, we made Avengers and this came out.
00:38:15
Speaker
What, what these games see, I will say that Thunderbirds, it looks like in the homebrew section at expo, the people who have a passion for a theme,
00:38:30
Speaker
And typically they're, they're rough.
00:38:33
Speaker
Like the, the, I, I respect what they've done.
00:38:36
Speaker
I haven't made a pinball machine myself and I respect how difficult it is, but it still feels like it's a, a fan fiction product.
00:38:47
Speaker
It's not ready for publication.
00:38:50
Speaker
So when you look at Thunderbirds, Thunderbirds feels like I should earn a gumball at the end of the drain.
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:59
Speaker
It's like a novelty game.
00:39:00
Speaker
That's what it looks like.
00:39:02
Speaker
This is Spinal Tap.
00:39:03
Speaker
It looks okay.
00:39:07
Speaker
It looks like a very generic play field.
00:39:13
Speaker
I agree with you.
00:39:14
Speaker
Spinal Tap does feel like a homebrew.
00:39:17
Speaker
Right.
00:39:19
Speaker
I, though, would say that Thunderbirds is so bad, it is an insult to say that it looks like a homebrew because I have played
00:39:26
Speaker
multiple homebrews well chicago and at texas yeah and those people i would hire one of those people to design your game yeah before i told you to release what they did for thunderbirds so the the challenge is i don't know if someone playing this would say i i love it enough to
00:39:47
Speaker
Are you going to get people buying these games after they play it?
00:39:51
Speaker
Or is it an impulse buy for a whale person who just has a dream theme and has a game room?
00:39:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty much what it comes down to.
00:40:00
Speaker
But it just it's it stinks because like we know people that work in the industry that have wells that buy from their company, right?
00:40:07
Speaker
And they buy.
00:40:09
Speaker
They'll call up and buy 10 machines at once because they got the money.
00:40:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:13
Speaker
They'll say what he got in stock and they'll buy arcade and pinball.
00:40:16
Speaker
They don't care.
00:40:17
Speaker
It just, I would be surprised though.
00:40:19
Speaker
I mean, it just seems that he's intentionally.
00:40:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:40:25
Speaker
The point of this is he's pretty relevant on the pinball landscape.
00:40:30
Speaker
Right.
00:40:31
Speaker
And so, you know, when someone comes out and just starts,
00:40:35
Speaker
like flamethrowing to get attention like Robert Mueller.
00:40:40
Speaker
Maybe I would say that when I listened to the interview, there were elements of someone who is very self-confident and very sure that they have all the answers.
00:40:58
Speaker
And anytime something didn't work out, it was because,
00:41:04
Speaker
it was punitive on regulations, government, whatever.
00:41:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:11
Speaker
And every version of anything that he talked about, it made him sound really good.
00:41:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:20
Speaker
And other people sound really bad or vindictive.
00:41:25
Speaker
So I, it's, it's a very dangerous personality mix that if you have,
00:41:33
Speaker
there's a fine line between confidence and arrogance.
00:41:37
Speaker
This guy was so far away from the line.
00:41:40
Speaker
The line didn't exist.
00:41:42
Speaker
That's true.
00:41:42
Speaker
Like he was so far into the arrogant narcissism that I, it was hard.
00:41:49
Speaker
If I were in a room with this guy, I probably would just kind of walk away or just wait for the train wreck.
00:41:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:56
Speaker
Because nothing that, nothing that he was saying seemed to be making sense.
00:42:01
Speaker
Like he's,
00:42:03
Speaker
Okay, should we get into the USB thing?
00:42:05
Speaker
Yeah, go for it.
00:42:06
Speaker
We've been updating games through USB since when?
00:42:12
Speaker
Dennis Creasel said the invention of it was in 1996.
00:42:15
Speaker
Okay, but when, like, in, okay, Simpsons I know has a chip, okay?
00:42:20
Speaker
Yeah, the EEPROM.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:22
Speaker
So at some point between that and Pirates of the Caribbean, because I have that stern one.
00:42:27
Speaker
At least since Spike won games.
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah, okay, so 15, 16 years?
00:42:32
Speaker
At least.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:33
Speaker
And so this is not new technology.
00:42:36
Speaker
Well, it's not just Stern.
00:42:37
Speaker
It's JJP.
00:42:38
Speaker
Well, JJP has their own issues about updating games.
00:42:41
Speaker
I like my Wizard of Oz.
00:42:43
Speaker
That was kind of a pain to update my game.
00:42:45
Speaker
So I will say that there's still USB though, right?
00:42:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:48
Speaker
It's, it took me a while to figure it out, but K Stern has the, it, they have it down.
00:42:57
Speaker
It is very streamlined.
00:43:00
Speaker
And any respectable engineer can retro engineer something.
00:43:08
Speaker
If you give them a product, they can say, I can figure out how that works and I can just replicate it.
00:43:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:15
Speaker
So if you're saying that you are an amazing engineer and these experts in the field can't figure out something that Stern has been doing for 18 years,
00:43:27
Speaker
That makes me question your expertise.
00:43:30
Speaker
A little bit.
00:43:31
Speaker
And when you find someone who can do it for chips and a sandwich, you're not getting top-notch talent.
00:43:40
Speaker
No.
00:43:40
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:43:42
Speaker
You're not.
00:43:42
Speaker
And so that's not a professional thing.
00:43:46
Speaker
And to claim that all the experts out, the so-called experts out there couldn't figure it out,
00:43:54
Speaker
That makes me question your ability to assess what an expert is.
00:43:59
Speaker
Well, not only that, like to say that motherboards will fail within a couple of years.
00:44:04
Speaker
I'm sorry.
00:44:05
Speaker
Show me the body.
00:44:07
Speaker
Show me the bodies.
00:44:08
Speaker
Show me ever all the games that are put out to the curb after three years then.
00:44:13
Speaker
That means everything made.
00:44:15
Speaker
That means my, my Avengers should have stopped working by now.
00:44:19
Speaker
It was made in 2020 and my world cup soccer over there should not, not even exist because of the motherboards and it should be dead.
00:44:26
Speaker
My oldest game, uh, black Rose.
00:44:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:29
Speaker
Black Rose, 1992 ish.
00:44:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:44:32
Speaker
So that's a 30 year old game.
00:44:34
Speaker
Uh huh.
00:44:35
Speaker
Still working.
00:44:37
Speaker
My amazing Spider-Man from Got Believe in 81.
00:44:41
Speaker
It was still working while I sold it.
00:44:42
Speaker
It had a motherboard.
00:44:45
Speaker
It just.
00:44:45
Speaker
It seemed very strange.
00:44:47
Speaker
The positions he was taking.
00:44:49
Speaker
It was.
00:44:50
Speaker
It really smacked of.
00:44:52
Speaker
I'm smarter than everybody in the room.
00:44:54
Speaker
And I'm going to tell you that.
00:44:57
Speaker
I think.
00:44:58
Speaker
I think we should grant his wish.
00:45:01
Speaker
And.
00:45:03
Speaker
These games aren't for us.
00:45:04
Speaker
So no one should support him.
00:45:06
Speaker
I am curious.
00:45:07
Speaker
None of us pinball people should support him.
00:45:10
Speaker
Sorry.
00:45:10
Speaker
Let me, let me rephrase that, but he's coming to expo next year.
00:45:14
Speaker
That's what he said.
00:45:15
Speaker
So I, I, I'm not catering to the,
00:45:19
Speaker
pinball crowd, but I'm going to a pinball expo.
00:45:24
Speaker
In country XYZ.
00:45:27
Speaker
XYZ.
00:45:28
Speaker
So let me get this way.
00:45:29
Speaker
You think America sucks so much to the point that you won't say their name.
00:45:34
Speaker
It seems a very immature thing to do.
00:45:40
Speaker
You don't sell to pinball people, yet you're coming to a pinball convention in America
00:45:46
Speaker
To sell your product.
00:45:48
Speaker
Right.
00:45:49
Speaker
Get out of here.
00:45:50
Speaker
I'm going.
00:45:52
Speaker
I'm sure I'll be at pinball expo.
00:45:54
Speaker
I will go up.
00:45:54
Speaker
I'll stand in line.
00:45:55
Speaker
I'll go and I'll play the game.
00:45:58
Speaker
Eventually at some point I will make it down to the pinball hall of fame.
00:46:01
Speaker
Cause it's about seven hours away.
00:46:04
Speaker
And I will give my own assessment of actually playing.
00:46:06
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:08
Speaker
So the only thing that I've commented on is his attitude, his business decisions.
00:46:16
Speaker
And.
00:46:17
Speaker
how he comes across, which just seems bizarre.
00:46:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:46:22
Speaker
Compare him to someone who was really savvy with the media Jersey Jack.
00:46:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:30
Speaker
We're talking light years difference.
00:46:32
Speaker
Yep.
00:46:33
Speaker
Like you don't, you don't try to alienate people by criticizing them by, by attacking them.
00:46:43
Speaker
If you're trying to actually sell things to them, then you should probably be more likable.
00:46:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:49
Speaker
He's not like, or the, or the very least not tell the whole country that, that makes pinball machines is the highest economic demographic of the product you're making.
00:47:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:47:03
Speaker
that were so terrible.
00:47:05
Speaker
You can't even say our name because of four people on PayPal.
00:47:09
Speaker
It seemed weird.
00:47:11
Speaker
But then did you notice that he, that he turned and he said, actually, pen PayPal is fine now because if someone says anything, I immediately file a complaint and it goes to the ombudsman.
00:47:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:47:27
Speaker
So basically he takes a very aggressive tactic and,
00:47:30
Speaker
As opposed to saying, okay, is this a valid complaint?
00:47:34
Speaker
Because that's what you should do as a business.
00:47:36
Speaker
Yeah, I agree.
00:47:37
Speaker
It's a valid complaint.
00:47:39
Speaker
But he just, he seems, according to the interview, that he just takes a very aggressive defensive thing.
00:47:47
Speaker
Now, there was another guy that we have talked about a lot that was a big talker that had a flamethrower and started trying to throw haymakers at Stern.
00:48:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:01
Speaker
How'd that turn out for him?
00:48:03
Speaker
He's sitting in a prison cell.
00:48:05
Speaker
Hopefully.
00:48:06
Speaker
Hopefully.
00:48:06
Speaker
Or he's at least the very least on house arrest because he still invested millions of dollars.
00:48:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:11
Speaker
That was a con man.
00:48:12
Speaker
This guy.
00:48:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:13
Speaker
And by the way, I'm not saying that Mike is a con man.
00:48:15
Speaker
I'm not.
00:48:17
Speaker
No.
00:48:17
Speaker
Because he's made a product.
00:48:18
Speaker
It's completely delivering the product.
00:48:20
Speaker
Yes.
00:48:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:20
Speaker
It is completely different.
00:48:22
Speaker
However, there are a lot of attitude issues.
00:48:25
Speaker
that are very similar between the two.
00:48:28
Speaker
He is the guy that when you go to your favorite sports team and sit in the arena, he's yelling from the grandstands at the number one athletes in the league that they suck, they're not doing it right, and he could do it better.
00:48:42
Speaker
And I don't know if you ever saw this video, but in the UK, there was a man harassing a female tennis player that he could do it better because he was a man.
00:48:51
Speaker
So she finally said, come on,
00:48:53
Speaker
You come play.
00:48:54
Speaker
He had to put the skirt on though.
00:48:56
Speaker
So he got down on the court, put on the skirt, started playing and got his butt handed to him from a woman.
00:49:01
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:49:02
Speaker
Because, because you will, any elite athlete, if I, if I play tennis against anybody, any elite athlete, regardless of gender, I'm going to get smoked basketball.
00:49:12
Speaker
100%.
00:49:12
Speaker
Any elite athlete basketball, I will get smoked.
00:49:15
Speaker
I am not an athlete.
00:49:16
Speaker
And I also am aware of that.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:49:20
Speaker
Exactly.
00:49:21
Speaker
And that's what I'm saying, though.
00:49:22
Speaker
Like, it doesn't matter about gender.
00:49:23
Speaker
It doesn't matter.
00:49:24
Speaker
Like, you shouldn't disrespect someone for something that they have trained in a high-level competitive state, manufacturing state.
00:49:34
Speaker
It doesn't matter.
00:49:34
Speaker
Like, it just, I don't know.
00:49:36
Speaker
This guy just, like I said.
00:49:38
Speaker
He was too much.
00:49:38
Speaker
Too much.
00:49:39
Speaker
Too much.
00:49:40
Speaker
Too much.
00:49:40
Speaker
And your games suck.
00:49:41
Speaker
Like, they're not my cup of tea.
00:49:44
Speaker
Which, guess what?
00:49:45
Speaker
I play pinball, so it's not for me.
00:49:48
Speaker
It's probably not for me, too.
00:49:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's not.
00:49:51
Speaker
And it's not for all my friends that are in pinball, that they play pinball because of either it's casually going through the exploration of the game because they want to see the depth of the game and experience the feeling and the story and be immersed in that world.
00:50:05
Speaker
Or the people are playing for score.
00:50:06
Speaker
Guess what?
00:50:06
Speaker
None of it's geared towards you.
00:50:08
Speaker
It does seem bizarre, though, because it's not like you find pinball machines in the 7-Eleven anymore.
00:50:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:15
Speaker
You have to seek out pinball.
00:50:17
Speaker
They're either at
00:50:18
Speaker
bars that cater to pinball or you're at home environment.
00:50:23
Speaker
Those are really the two.
00:50:25
Speaker
Occasionally you get like a, like a, what am I, what am I trying to say?
00:50:31
Speaker
Like a collect, like the, you know, the pinball collective or something where you pay 10 bucks and you go and you play as much as you want, you know, but still that's a very, that's a, you're catering to a specific crowd.
00:50:43
Speaker
People aren't going to bump into a pinball machine unless they want it.
00:50:47
Speaker
I agree.
00:50:48
Speaker
I like to keep things positive on the podcast.
00:50:51
Speaker
So I think this is probably the last time I talk about Haggis because it just gets under my skin.
00:50:54
Speaker
Or not Haggis.
00:50:55
Speaker
Sorry.
00:50:55
Speaker
The last time I talk about Home Pin.
00:50:57
Speaker
Sorry, Haggis.
00:50:58
Speaker
I apologize.
00:50:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:01
Speaker
You're nowhere near Home Pin.
00:51:02
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:03
Speaker
I will say I will keep it positive.
00:51:05
Speaker
I am positive that I am not interested in these products.
00:51:08
Speaker
I like that attitude.
00:51:10
Speaker
I did find it interesting, though, as I was at the Hall of Fame.
00:51:12
Speaker
I'm going to give a quick review of that.
00:51:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:51:15
Speaker
That he had all of home pins games, but he only had one Jersey Jack, which was Hobbit.
00:51:23
Speaker
He did have a good amount of Sterns.
00:51:25
Speaker
There's a lot of Sterns.
00:51:26
Speaker
A lot of Sterns there.
00:51:28
Speaker
But it's like he didn't have any American games.
00:51:31
Speaker
He didn't have.
00:51:31
Speaker
I mean, it's kind of weird that he doesn't have these games in the Pinball Hall of Fame.
00:51:37
Speaker
It's an interesting location.
00:51:39
Speaker
It feels very kind of a mix of.
00:51:45
Speaker
a flea market where there's these games that are functional adjacent.
00:51:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:52
Speaker
But they're not, you know, a lot, there's a lot of things that are off and I'm, I'm hoping that they could change their philosophy and maybe hire two or three full-time techs that just go through and make sure everything's ship shape.
00:52:10
Speaker
But it's difficult to the way it's currently being managed to anticipate a long-term viability of it.
00:52:20
Speaker
I agree.
00:52:20
Speaker
And Tim Arnold is getting up there in age.
00:52:23
Speaker
Maybe he will sell it soon.
00:52:25
Speaker
I don't know.
00:52:25
Speaker
But that was the problem about the Pinball Hall of Fame is I got there.
00:52:30
Speaker
The new location is amazing.
00:52:31
Speaker
It's great where it's located right there, right next to the airport.
00:52:35
Speaker
So when you're pulling in, the biggest thing you see from your airplane is the pinball.
00:52:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:41
Speaker
at least half the games were turned off.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:44
Speaker
And I, that just shows a staffing issue.
00:52:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:49
Speaker
Like you're not, there are people that are not being hired and paid a wage to maintain the games.
00:52:55
Speaker
The biggest attraction in my opinion, that's there.
00:52:58
Speaker
It's pinball circus.
00:52:59
Speaker
If you're not aware of pinball circus, there's only one.
00:53:01
Speaker
It's been two.
00:53:02
Speaker
There's two.
00:53:03
Speaker
Is there two or three?
00:53:04
Speaker
I thought there was three.
00:53:05
Speaker
I thought there was two.
00:53:06
Speaker
I thought there was one there and then one in a private collection, but it is also still a gimmick game.
00:53:11
Speaker
It is a gimmick game.
00:53:12
Speaker
I played it once and I got to, you know, through the mouth of the clown at the top.
00:53:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:18
Speaker
The last two or three times I've been there, it's actually been down.
00:53:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:22
Speaker
Was it down?
00:53:23
Speaker
It's still down now.
00:53:24
Speaker
It was, you know, it was down a couple of weeks ago from what I saw on Facebook.
00:53:28
Speaker
Going nuts, which there's only been 10 in the world of those ever made.
00:53:31
Speaker
That one was down.
00:53:34
Speaker
I mean, a lot of, just a lot of games were shut off.
00:53:37
Speaker
And yeah,
00:53:39
Speaker
Here's the thing.
00:53:40
Speaker
It is a 501 C3, by the way.
00:53:44
Speaker
It's not a business business.
00:53:47
Speaker
It is kind of a charity type thing.
00:53:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:51
Speaker
Maybe they need to transition.
00:53:53
Speaker
Maybe they need to transition to more of a for-profit enterprise.
00:53:58
Speaker
Well, and here's the thing, too, is like you can go in there.
00:54:01
Speaker
I know that people get ticked off when these games are turned off, but you're not paying an entrance fee.
00:54:05
Speaker
It was cool to kind of go through and see some of the history there.
00:54:07
Speaker
And then Tim's got at least 200 games set up.
00:54:12
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:54:12
Speaker
There's a lot.
00:54:13
Speaker
There is a ton of games in there.
00:54:16
Speaker
And there's arcade games and bubble hockey.
00:54:19
Speaker
And like I said...
00:54:22
Speaker
there's really i know that people complain that like well this place just sucks because you know half the games are tough they had a lot of sterns that were on a lot of newer sterns i mean they had four foo fighters they've got batman 66 they've got black knight i mean they just they had a lot of games there and so i didn't feel ripped off because i'm like well granted i've been in this hobby for over a day or almost a decade now a lot of those games that were turned off i just was like oh like
00:54:49
Speaker
I'm not playing Black Knight 2000 today.
00:54:51
Speaker
Right.
00:54:51
Speaker
It's just, you know, and, but I get it.
00:54:54
Speaker
I get it.
00:54:54
Speaker
Like we had on Martin Gonzalez and he's like, it just stinks when you're new into this hobby, you're so excited and you find, finally find a place that has that game and you get there and it's turned off because it's broken.
00:55:07
Speaker
So I do feel for those people that specifically go to the pinball hall of fame and that their games turned off that they wanted to play.
00:55:13
Speaker
Right.
00:55:14
Speaker
I would say that it has the most name recognition of all the location, the destination locations.
00:55:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:20
Speaker
People at least would recognize or know that a lot of people ask me, Hey, have you been to the pinball hall thing?
00:55:26
Speaker
Cause they went to Vegas and they saw a big sign, but there are, there are definitely other places that are more well-maintained and that's not really a knock on Tim.
00:55:40
Speaker
I hope that, um,
00:55:43
Speaker
The business philosophy adjusts for what the demand is.
00:55:48
Speaker
I do find it interesting that there was one thing that kind of almost gave me a heart attack.
00:55:52
Speaker
As we were pulling out, we thought we saw a cat up on the Pinball Hall of Fame sign pretty far up.
00:55:59
Speaker
It was on the letter B. And so we stopped.
00:56:02
Speaker
We got out to see what we could do.
00:56:03
Speaker
And we realized it's a fake cat that they've put on.
00:56:07
Speaker
the letter B for some odd reason, just to hang out up there.
00:56:09
Speaker
Oh, it's like the size of an actual cat.
00:56:11
Speaker
It's not like something that's, Oh, wow.
00:56:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:14
Speaker
I took a picture.
00:56:15
Speaker
Cause I was like, what the heck?
00:56:17
Speaker
But yeah.
00:56:18
Speaker
Overall, like I said, pinball hall of fame.
00:56:20
Speaker
If you're in Vegas, you have some time to kill.
00:56:23
Speaker
I still recommend it.
00:56:24
Speaker
There's still some great games there.
00:56:25
Speaker
I still go.
00:56:26
Speaker
There's a lot of good history there.
00:56:28
Speaker
Just, just know, don't be as disappointed.
00:56:31
Speaker
Whatever happened to, they built that place.
00:56:33
Speaker
It wasn't even like a year later that they were, they said that part of their property was encroaching on another property.
00:56:38
Speaker
They didn't say that.
00:56:39
Speaker
I think that that was a post that they said it was, they, they missed it by like nine feet or something like that.
00:56:48
Speaker
I don't know.
00:56:48
Speaker
Everything around that place, though, has been demolished.
00:56:51
Speaker
It's literally just the pinball Hall of Fame right there now.
00:56:54
Speaker
And now I will say it's not also the best part of the strip.
00:56:57
Speaker
Like we walked there after a football game and we decided this wasn't the best idea.
00:57:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:03
Speaker
So that's just it's not it's not terrible, but I would just drive.
00:57:09
Speaker
I mean, the parking lot's fine.
00:57:11
Speaker
Definitely.
00:57:12
Speaker
So, all right, let's move on to what else we got on this list.
00:57:15
Speaker
We've got a couple of minutes left.
00:57:17
Speaker
Yep.
00:57:18
Speaker
Well, we got queen queen.
00:57:21
Speaker
Queen dropped their price.
00:57:22
Speaker
They were originally 92 99.
00:57:24
Speaker
They've dropped it to 89 99.
00:57:28
Speaker
Why do you think that is Scott?
00:57:31
Speaker
I think it's to get below a certain price point to help move things.
00:57:36
Speaker
I agree.
00:57:39
Speaker
Queen is a better integration than some of the dream themes that we have seen and we've talked about.
00:57:47
Speaker
It's still not a game that I would be interested in buying.
00:57:50
Speaker
I agree.
00:57:52
Speaker
Just because I have other alternatives that I enjoy playing more and that's what it comes down to.
00:57:58
Speaker
So it, it's a smart move.
00:58:00
Speaker
If you want to try that psychology though, of, well, it's technically under $9,000.
00:58:04
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:58:06
Speaker
No.
00:58:06
Speaker
And they do that all the time.
00:58:07
Speaker
They do that with gas.
00:58:08
Speaker
What do they say?
00:58:09
Speaker
Hey, gas is three 59 99.99.
00:58:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:15
Speaker
Of course.
00:58:16
Speaker
And nothing's a hundred dollars.
00:58:18
Speaker
It's 99 95.
00:58:19
Speaker
Exactly.
00:58:20
Speaker
So, so yeah.
00:58:21
Speaker
So there is that.
00:58:24
Speaker
I didn't even tell you why I was in Vegas.
00:58:27
Speaker
I went down there to the punk rock museum that just opened up.
00:58:30
Speaker
I don't know if any of you like punk rock out there, but it goes from the decades of the sixties when it first was introduced all the way up through to now.
00:58:40
Speaker
It seems like it kind of stalls out around the mid two thousands, late two thousands.
00:58:44
Speaker
Nothing wrong with that, but it was really cool.
00:58:46
Speaker
I got a guided tour with Dave bash of some 41.
00:58:50
Speaker
That is a pinball machine.
00:58:51
Speaker
I would like to have just throwing that out there, but,
00:58:55
Speaker
Yeah, it was a really amazing experience.
00:58:59
Speaker
And I'd highly recommend it.
00:59:00
Speaker
The guided tour, hanging out with two and a half hours, the guy that inspired me to pick up the guitar.
00:59:06
Speaker
So it was cool to have.
00:59:08
Speaker
It was very, I mean, the group was small and we had maybe 10 people in our group and it was just seeing the history of like the Ramones and they had their jackets there and
00:59:17
Speaker
and black flag and just all those old school punk rock bands.
00:59:21
Speaker
It was really weird though, to see flea from red hot chili peppers.
00:59:24
Speaker
He was a band called fear.
00:59:26
Speaker
That was a punk rock band before red hot chili peppers.
00:59:28
Speaker
And his stuff was in there for them, but not for red hot chili peppers.
00:59:31
Speaker
There's not, well, red hots more of a funk band, but yeah, true.
00:59:35
Speaker
But they did have some punk elements to him, but it was funny.
00:59:38
Speaker
Cause like motorhead was in there.
00:59:41
Speaker
One of the, one of the people was trying to like, are you, they're not really punk rock.
00:59:43
Speaker
And I'm like,
00:59:44
Speaker
Have you listened to Ace of Spades?
00:59:45
Speaker
It's high octane.
00:59:48
Speaker
Vocals are grungy.
00:59:50
Speaker
It's punk to me, I guess.
00:59:54
Speaker
Anyhow, I highly recommend it.
00:59:55
Speaker
If you're in Vegas, check out.
00:59:57
Speaker
They have different people from different bands.
01:00:01
Speaker
The schedule's about a month out in advance.
01:00:03
Speaker
You can just check it out on their website.
01:00:05
Speaker
Definitely go to the Punk Rock Museum if that is your cup of tea.
01:00:10
Speaker
A lot of people were shocked.
01:00:13
Speaker
Like,
01:00:13
Speaker
Billy Idol was in the punk rock hall of fame and Joan Jett's in the black hearts.
01:00:19
Speaker
Yeah, they are.
01:00:20
Speaker
Yeah, they're, they're punk.
01:00:21
Speaker
So rumors are revving up end of this month.
01:00:27
Speaker
23rd comic-con starts up and Stern supposedly has a booth at comic-con along with the artist of is Ozzy going to be there again.
01:00:37
Speaker
I think Ozzy, something like that.
01:00:39
Speaker
I don't know.
01:00:40
Speaker
You can check out all the details on.
01:00:42
Speaker
Now I am going to clarify some things that some people have said.
01:00:48
Speaker
They said that Todd, Todd McFarlane invented venom.
01:00:52
Speaker
Okay.
01:00:52
Speaker
That's not true.
01:00:54
Speaker
Venom's actually been a character in Marvel for a long time, but Todd McFarlane got his name out there for being a Spider-Man artist.
01:01:05
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:06
Speaker
And,
01:01:06
Speaker
He did the Spider-Man comic.
01:01:10
Speaker
He actually got his own comic book that was named just Spider-Man because his art sells.
01:01:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:16
Speaker
And so obviously he knows how to draw spiders.
01:01:20
Speaker
He knows how to draw...
01:01:23
Speaker
Spider-Man characters, including Venom.
01:01:25
Speaker
And so that definitely makes sense because he left Marvel to make Spawn.
01:01:29
Speaker
That's actually Spawn is his own property.
01:01:32
Speaker
So that's where that came from.
01:01:34
Speaker
He actually left with the creator of Deadpool, Rob Liefeld.
01:01:38
Speaker
They actually started Image Comet.
01:01:40
Speaker
Image Comet.
01:01:41
Speaker
Comics?
01:01:42
Speaker
Comics?
01:01:42
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:44
Speaker
that was right back in the nineties when comics were, had a huge rise in collectability.
01:01:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:52
Speaker
I think it's, it's tapered down a lot since then.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:56
Speaker
But,
01:01:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:58
Speaker
And obviously he's, he's involved in the project because there's zero reason why Todd McFarlane should be there unless he's associated with a stern release.
01:02:09
Speaker
They're only stern release that it's, it's the worst kept secret venom.
01:02:14
Speaker
And obviously Ozzy is going to be involved because there's no other reason why Ozzy would have, would have been there last year.
01:02:20
Speaker
So there has been rumors that this isn't actually venom, that the next release is a remake of,
01:02:29
Speaker
I just have a hard time believing that they're going to do a remake in between now and a Venom release.
01:02:35
Speaker
They obviously pushed Venom back for some reason.
01:02:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:41
Speaker
So I'm not sure why, because it takes a long time to schedule, you know, people who have a very full schedule, including Ozzy Osbourne.
01:02:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:52
Speaker
And so something significant must have happened to readjust the schedule.
01:02:59
Speaker
We'll have to ask when it finally comes out and see if we can get anything.
01:03:03
Speaker
Because a lot of times they just don't share.
01:03:05
Speaker
But maybe it's obviously stuff beyond their control.
01:03:08
Speaker
It's the same thing as when we talked about, well, Stern apparently dropped the ball when it comes to Harry Potter.
01:03:17
Speaker
Well, okay, maybe.
01:03:20
Speaker
But I always ask, what do they know that we don't know?
01:03:26
Speaker
And what, what were the, what were some conditions or some situations that they thought may not work for their business because that it's a business decision.
01:03:38
Speaker
So obviously something that wasn't working for the timeline is why they pushed it back, but I pushed it back to release in the comic book venue, you know, a comic-con.
01:03:52
Speaker
Well, and so the rumors are right now,
01:03:56
Speaker
There's a cornerstone at the end of this month.
01:03:58
Speaker
And then there's another game looking to be released in December.
01:04:02
Speaker
And they're speculating because George Gomez said there's only two cornerstones coming out this year, shipping this year.
01:04:09
Speaker
And there's so a lot of people are speculating in December.
01:04:14
Speaker
It is a remake.
01:04:16
Speaker
As far as rumors go, I'm trying to think of how much we can say here, but there's,
01:04:24
Speaker
My understanding, there will be something shown in December, but not ship until the beginning of next year.
01:04:32
Speaker
Yeah, and that's not uncommon.
01:04:34
Speaker
No, it's not uncommon.
01:04:34
Speaker
That's not uncommon for them to release.
01:04:36
Speaker
And they have done that before.
01:04:39
Speaker
But that means you could still technically have three cornerstones this year.
01:04:46
Speaker
but only it'd be two because you're technically showing the third one in December.
01:04:50
Speaker
Does that make sense?
01:04:51
Speaker
Do you think that George cares at all about timelines?
01:04:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:56
Speaker
Oh, you know, he is tied to it.
01:04:58
Speaker
Sticking to two releases versus three releases.
01:05:02
Speaker
He's 100% tied to it.
01:05:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:04
Speaker
And this it's, it's almost like they sacrifice their first born on this promise that they're only good.
01:05:11
Speaker
Basically he was talking that they are modifying their production and
01:05:17
Speaker
scheduled because of because of manufacturing issues this wasn't design issues this was manufacturing issues that they were having so if they start like there's no switch that says okay so we we can only do two this year now let's crank it up and do three next year you know if the if the lag time was
01:05:40
Speaker
you know, four, four months between schedule and it was six months and now they dropped it to five months.
01:05:48
Speaker
Sure.
01:05:49
Speaker
Fine.
01:05:50
Speaker
I, I also don't understand why rush doesn't seem to be on the manufacturing anymore.
01:05:55
Speaker
There seems to be still a lot of demand for rush.
01:05:57
Speaker
Yep.
01:05:58
Speaker
So I don't understand that, but yeah,
01:06:01
Speaker
I wouldn't be surprised if they released it because who, who cares about an interview he did?
01:06:06
Speaker
I mean, he, he throws out things like, yeah, we're probably going to remake stranger things.
01:06:12
Speaker
And then they had to come out and say, we were not planning on doing that right now, but it's a good idea.
01:06:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:19
Speaker
Well, what's funny too, is like he announced last year and it weirds me out because we focused on such the weirdest things and we announced this last year.
01:06:27
Speaker
Like I'm surprised nap arcade hasn't ran this or,
01:06:31
Speaker
You can go back and watch the footage, but George Gomez announced last year a Spike 3 was coming soon.
01:06:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:38
Speaker
You know?
01:06:39
Speaker
Well, of course it is.
01:06:40
Speaker
It's like saying Nintendo is saying, hey, we have the next console in development.
01:06:46
Speaker
I agree, but is it just not as appealing?
01:06:49
Speaker
Like, is it not?
01:06:51
Speaker
I don't know.
01:06:51
Speaker
It just makes me chuckle some of the stuff that we focus on.
01:06:54
Speaker
But...
01:06:55
Speaker
Do you think it's been five years since we've had a vault?
01:06:57
Speaker
The last vault that's ever happened was Star Trek and they called it like the final voyage.
01:07:01
Speaker
Right.
01:07:01
Speaker
Yeah.
01:07:03
Speaker
And it's been five years.
01:07:05
Speaker
Do you really think we get a vault?
01:07:06
Speaker
Because I keep hearing that we're going to get a vault at some point in time.
01:07:12
Speaker
I see.
01:07:13
Speaker
I don't know.
01:07:13
Speaker
OK, so let's walk through the reasons for a vault.
01:07:19
Speaker
So why typically do they make vaults?
01:07:22
Speaker
To fill a gap in the line.
01:07:23
Speaker
To fill a gap in the line.
01:07:24
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:25
Speaker
Have there been any gaps?
01:07:27
Speaker
No.
01:07:28
Speaker
So that's my first question is like, okay, a vault, why would you do it?
01:07:33
Speaker
Do you need to throw out a hundred of these?
01:07:35
Speaker
Now, how, how much development do you have to do to make a vault viable?
01:07:42
Speaker
If you go back to something like Tron,
01:07:45
Speaker
which has a lot of demand out there, that would be a pretty easy one to vault because I don't think you have to do much to change Tron out there.
01:07:57
Speaker
I agree.
01:07:58
Speaker
So that would be something quick and easy.
01:08:00
Speaker
And you could, you could probably spit out 500 to a thousand of them quite easily.
01:08:05
Speaker
Once you start getting farther back, there's going to be questions.
01:08:08
Speaker
Okay.
01:08:10
Speaker
Are you going in Metallica is kind of in that same era.
01:08:13
Speaker
If you want to do a Metallica one,
01:08:16
Speaker
But they also made a billion Metallica games out there.
01:08:21
Speaker
We're hearing that The Vault is Metallica.
01:08:23
Speaker
Other people are saying it's like Stranger Things.
01:08:27
Speaker
I think Stranger Things seems more likely.
01:08:29
Speaker
I agree too.
01:08:30
Speaker
Because they cut it so short because of the lukewarm reception.
01:08:38
Speaker
It's still pretty similar to Attack from Mars, which is a well-received game.
01:08:43
Speaker
So it's...
01:08:45
Speaker
it's not surprising that stranger things turned out to be a fun game too.
01:08:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:52
Speaker
So you could do that.
01:08:53
Speaker
Metallica.
01:08:54
Speaker
I don't know.
01:08:54
Speaker
I'm still skeptical on the Metallica rumor because, but you, what's funny about that rumor?
01:08:59
Speaker
Cause do you remember this?
01:09:00
Speaker
We had a listener of the show reach out.
01:09:02
Speaker
We did.
01:09:03
Speaker
And ask like, do you know what the next vault is?
01:09:05
Speaker
And I'm like, we don't have a clue.
01:09:07
Speaker
No idea.
01:09:08
Speaker
We don't.
01:09:09
Speaker
But the interesting part is they were claiming that someone that they knew that worked for Stern had told them Metallica was the next vault.
01:09:17
Speaker
And because of the price that Metallica's were going for,
01:09:21
Speaker
he should sell his Metallica so that way he could.
01:09:25
Speaker
And I think that we said that that was my, I actually said, yeah, you should sell because you can get a crazy price for it.
01:09:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:31
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:33
Speaker
But the, so yeah, you could do, so the easy ones that you can make and you can make stranger things, you could make Metallica because there's still, people will still buy Metallica, but Tron, I think makes a lot more sense, but there, you need to look at license availability.
01:09:49
Speaker
Like stranger things is still going on.
01:09:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:51
Speaker
Tron is kind of dead in the water right now, except for they have the, the new light cycle ride at Disneyland.
01:09:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:59
Speaker
So that, so that's the only reason.
01:10:00
Speaker
There's a new Tron movie coming out though.
01:10:03
Speaker
Is that because it's been in development for a long time.
01:10:06
Speaker
Is it actually going forward?
01:10:08
Speaker
I got the green light.
01:10:09
Speaker
I think it releases here the next year or two.
01:10:11
Speaker
Really?
01:10:12
Speaker
Yeah, it was finally greenlit.
01:10:14
Speaker
okay now you're gonna be looking i am looking it up so because i i mean there was like but like you said though does it make sense to vault a game right now when the whole line yeah especially where they're moving factory and you've got two possibly three cornerstones this year and lineup wise tron aries are you kidding me 2025
01:10:40
Speaker
See?
01:10:41
Speaker
Okay.
01:10:43
Speaker
Does it make sense?
01:10:44
Speaker
So between a mute move Jared Leto?
01:10:48
Speaker
You have Venom.
01:10:50
Speaker
Okay.
01:10:50
Speaker
Rupert.
01:10:51
Speaker
coming out at the end of the month, and then do you really have time for a vault?
01:10:56
Speaker
And if Eddie's next, and Danger was last, and Borg was before that, that means Elwyn is up to bat.
01:11:03
Speaker
Do you really want to release a vault and then release an Elwyn?
01:11:08
Speaker
Maybe that's the reason to have a vault come out, because it's like, well, if we release an Elwyn, there's no reason to release a vault for the next at least eight months.
01:11:17
Speaker
Okay, so this actually gets into...
01:11:21
Speaker
We've heard there are a lot of people who are really excited for the release, the announcement in December, January.
01:11:30
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:31
Speaker
Yes.
01:11:31
Speaker
We've heard people are like, this is going to be big.
01:11:34
Speaker
I'm super excited.
01:11:36
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:40
Speaker
I've said this before.
01:11:41
Speaker
What's the one license right now that would sell a billion games in
01:11:47
Speaker
And is could go any in any family arcade would have this thing.
01:11:52
Speaker
And it just released a movie that made billions.
01:11:58
Speaker
Super Mario Brothers.
01:11:59
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:11:59
Speaker
Like, like if you had the choice of doing Harry Potter or Super Mario Brothers right now, you would do Super Mario Brothers.
01:12:06
Speaker
Yeah, you would.
01:12:08
Speaker
Because I agree.
01:12:10
Speaker
If they are super excited and so confident to say, well, what do you want to do?
01:12:17
Speaker
So I actually texted Zach and I said, Hey, I know this is my total speculation.
01:12:26
Speaker
But if Elwynn is doing Super Mario Brothers, I want an LE.
01:12:30
Speaker
It would sell a boatload.
01:12:31
Speaker
Yeah, I'd want an LE as well.
01:12:33
Speaker
And I don't believe in LEs.
01:12:35
Speaker
Yeah, no question whatsoever.
01:12:37
Speaker
It wouldn't leave the house.
01:12:39
Speaker
Yeah, would you... Vault to the floor.
01:12:42
Speaker
So, like, what is the advantage of doing a vault other than just like, hey, you can sell more games.
01:12:47
Speaker
Guess what?
01:12:47
Speaker
You can sell more games of Rush.
01:12:49
Speaker
You can sell more games of Foo Fighters.
01:12:51
Speaker
You can sell more games of almost anything that you are making right now.
01:12:56
Speaker
So why muddy the water or even complicate things to even go after these extra things?
01:13:04
Speaker
It's true.
01:13:04
Speaker
I would be very surprised if it's a vault.
01:13:07
Speaker
I really would.
01:13:08
Speaker
Hey, and this is me just talking like I'm trying to look at it from I would love vaults like the vaults.
01:13:15
Speaker
If you made a Lord of the Rings vault, I would have to buy one.
01:13:21
Speaker
How about this?
01:13:22
Speaker
Let's say is Venom in two weeks.
01:13:25
Speaker
but it's a vault.
01:13:26
Speaker
It's a remake of what of Spider-Man.
01:13:30
Speaker
You'd be getting your vault plus your cornerstone kind of thing.
01:13:33
Speaker
It's like Batman 66.
01:13:34
Speaker
I would be, I would be shocked.
01:13:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:38
Speaker
Okay.
01:13:39
Speaker
But I would be shocked because they already did a comic version of Spider-Man vault.
01:13:44
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:46
Speaker
And they didn't do an update with the DMD or with a, with an LCD.
01:13:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:50
Speaker
But why?
01:13:50
Speaker
Why?
01:13:50
Speaker
It's,
01:13:54
Speaker
okay that that would be definitely playing we're we're going through the uh the wormhole on that one i agree with you though super mario brothers and it was funny because i can't remember which i i listened to the pinball show sure and they they went over this being super mario brothers the likelihood of it not being made because nintendo owns the license and they own
01:14:19
Speaker
arcade games and if they were going to make it, they make it themselves.
01:14:23
Speaker
I think right now, I think right now, they didn't make the movie.
Nintendo's Licensing Strategy
01:14:27
Speaker
No, they didn't.
01:14:28
Speaker
But that's the thing.
01:14:29
Speaker
Nintendo is getting more and more loose with their licenses.
01:14:33
Speaker
It used to be, they used to, did you know there was an adult film made of the Super Mario Brothers in the 80s and Nintendo did not want it distributed so they bought up the rights to it to shut it down.
01:14:50
Speaker
That's how tight they were with their licenses, which they wanted.
01:14:53
Speaker
They had an image they didn't want to maintain.
01:14:55
Speaker
I don't blame it.
01:14:56
Speaker
If you're going family friendly, you want to maintain that image.
01:14:59
Speaker
But my point being is if you've ever played Cadence of Hyrule, that is based off of a rhythm action game.
01:15:08
Speaker
They did it.
01:15:09
Speaker
I have no idea what you just said.
01:15:11
Speaker
It is, if you haven't checked out this game, it is amazing.
01:15:14
Speaker
It is top-down, old-school Zelda.
01:15:16
Speaker
What's a rhythm action game?
01:15:19
Speaker
It started its own genre.
01:15:21
Speaker
So it's top-down Zelda, right?
01:15:23
Speaker
Like, remember Link to the Past or... Okay, but Link to the Past, that was Zelda 2.
01:15:27
Speaker
And so you had a side-scroll in addition to the top.
01:15:30
Speaker
That was Zelda 4.
01:15:30
Speaker
Nope, nope, nope.
01:15:33
Speaker
Sorry, Adventures of Link.
01:15:35
Speaker
The Adventure of Link was Zelda 2.
01:15:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:37
Speaker
So that's the one that was like a top down and then it had a side scrolling thing.
01:15:41
Speaker
Yeah, it was a weird one.
01:15:42
Speaker
Correct.
01:15:42
Speaker
So I'm talking to Link to Pass that was on the Super Nintendo.
01:15:45
Speaker
Okay.
01:15:46
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:46
Speaker
So Link to the Pass.
01:15:48
Speaker
So imagine that, but there's music playing and you move on the beat to get your combo higher.
01:15:56
Speaker
Like Advanced Dance Revolution?
01:15:58
Speaker
Kind of.
01:16:00
Speaker
But you're still playing, but I don't know how to exactly explain this.
01:16:04
Speaker
You're moving on the beat and you get rewarded for being on the beat.
01:16:08
Speaker
You're still playing Zelda, but you're moving to the rhythm of the music.
01:16:12
Speaker
It sounds kind of goofy, but...
01:16:14
Speaker
But Nintendo took a chance because the original game was called Crypt of the Necrodancer.
01:16:20
Speaker
And they took a chance and said, okay, we will give you the assets for Zelda, which is arguably their biggest selling license at the moment.
01:16:30
Speaker
It's the fastest selling game for modern game right now.
01:16:35
Speaker
It blew away God of War.
01:16:37
Speaker
It blew away Pokemon.
01:16:39
Speaker
It just... Zelda's Tears of the Kingdom has just...
01:16:43
Speaker
demolished everything in its path right results is pretty big right so why would they benefit at all by making a random sub genre game that has no blip on the map besides the fact that like they're taking trust of this company this indie company and saying hey you can use our product if you make a good product we'll release it they're doing that more and more so why wouldn't they let star make a pinball machine they want the quality right they don't
01:17:12
Speaker
And if you want volume, if you want quality, you're you would approach Stern.
01:17:18
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:20
Speaker
And so that's why I think Nintendo, the only games they really produce arcade wise is the Mario Kart games.
01:17:28
Speaker
Like last time you went to an arcade, what have you seen in there from Nintendo?
01:17:31
Speaker
It's always Mario Kart for me because that's their top selling arcade game.
01:17:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's so I can understand if it was Mario Kart.
01:17:38
Speaker
It's all Roth drills, but true.
01:17:41
Speaker
But I would understand if it was Mario Kart.
01:17:44
Speaker
But this is Super Mario Brothers.
01:17:46
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:47
Speaker
I don't know.
01:17:49
Speaker
I still would die on the they should do it.
01:17:54
Speaker
I guess I'll put it that way.
01:17:55
Speaker
100%.
01:17:55
Speaker
If they haven't considered it, they should do it.
01:17:59
Speaker
It would be arguably the best-selling modern game by far.
01:18:07
Speaker
I guarantee that Godzilla holds that right now.
01:18:10
Speaker
I know we don't have numbers.
01:18:13
Speaker
They're still selling a boatload of those.
01:18:15
Speaker
Based off the runs and based off what we know, how much they make a week, which you can take the math.
01:18:21
Speaker
We're going to do public math right now, right?
01:18:24
Speaker
They make how many Elys?
01:18:25
Speaker
They make 1,000 now, right?
01:18:27
Speaker
They make 1,000.
01:18:27
Speaker
1,000.
01:18:28
Speaker
And they're able to pump out Elys,
01:18:31
Speaker
It takes two weeks to pump out all the LEs, and that's still with other lines running other games.
01:18:36
Speaker
You're running probably about 1,000 games, if not more, a week.
01:18:40
Speaker
You times that by four.
01:18:40
Speaker
That's 4,000 games a month.
01:18:43
Speaker
Times that by 12.
01:18:43
Speaker
They're roughly putting out about 48,000 games a year.
01:18:47
Speaker
And if you're doing two to three to four runs of Godzilla a year, I mean, it's not hard to make the math really quick.
01:18:54
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:18:56
Speaker
You're at least, the very least, double digits in Godzilla right now.
01:19:00
Speaker
God certainly has the opportunity to, and I don't want to say eclipse, but basically set a new benchmark for a modern game.
01:19:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:11
Speaker
Sorry.
01:19:11
Speaker
I said that wrong.
01:19:12
Speaker
Not, not double digits, five figures.
01:19:14
Speaker
I bet you they're over 10,000 right now.
01:19:16
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:16
Speaker
But that's what I'm saying.
01:19:17
Speaker
Like I, and who knows, maybe Stern would announce if they ended up starting knocking on that 15,000, 20,000 mark.
01:19:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:27
Speaker
I think they should.
Comparing Sports Legends
01:19:29
Speaker
Here's the thing.
01:19:30
Speaker
So we've been talking about, you know, we talked about Spirit of 76 and which did not have more than Adam's family.
01:19:36
Speaker
I found that out.
01:19:37
Speaker
But I have been looking.
01:19:39
Speaker
I found.
01:19:42
Speaker
Rock Ola, which used to be the old jukebox company, they made pinball machines back in the 30s.
01:19:49
Speaker
They have one called World Series.
01:19:53
Speaker
World Series is up there.
01:19:54
Speaker
It has 50,000 units made.
01:19:57
Speaker
But Jigsaw has over 70,000 units made, produced.
01:20:03
Speaker
And so that's pretty insane.
01:20:05
Speaker
But then again, the game was half the size, no flippers.
01:20:07
Speaker
You have to take a lot into account.
01:20:09
Speaker
But my point being is, you know, we always talk about these numbers.
01:20:13
Speaker
Anywho.
01:20:14
Speaker
I will say it's the same as athletes.
01:20:18
Speaker
Like I really hate when people talk about greatest of all time.
01:20:24
Speaker
I say it really doesn't fit.
01:20:27
Speaker
You have to say greatest of their era because in that era, it's a different game than what it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
01:20:36
Speaker
And so they're competing against the genetic equals in athletic talent.
01:20:46
Speaker
And they surpassed all of the people of their generation.
01:20:51
Speaker
So that's why it doesn't really translate from like the 1950s basketball to now.
01:20:59
Speaker
Just wouldn't do it.
01:21:00
Speaker
Well, and technique and everything has changed since then, too.
01:21:04
Speaker
The bar has been changed.
01:21:05
Speaker
The rules have been changed.
01:21:06
Speaker
And if you're going to go LeBron, Jordan, I'm still going to pick Jordan over LeBron.
01:21:12
Speaker
Oh, I would.
01:21:14
Speaker
That's just me.
01:21:15
Speaker
I would also consider Bill Russell.
01:21:18
Speaker
Bill Russell has 11.
01:21:20
Speaker
But it was a different game and a different era.
01:21:24
Speaker
Like our boy John Stockton from the Utah Jazz, he holds so many records and a lot of those records will never be broken.
01:21:31
Speaker
I don't mind zero rings.
01:21:32
Speaker
Yeah, zero rings.
01:21:34
Speaker
But I don't I would not fight you and saying that like John Stockton
01:21:39
Speaker
was the greatest of his time because he still holds those records that haven't been broken.
01:21:44
Speaker
And they even said like for LeBron to break his stealing record, it would still take like every game, playing every game, getting like 20 steals per game for the next seven seasons or something like that.
01:21:54
Speaker
It's insane.
01:21:55
Speaker
You've never checked out John Stockton's stats.
01:21:57
Speaker
They are insane.
01:21:58
Speaker
He missed 38 games over 12 seasons.
01:22:01
Speaker
Yeah, the guy was a machine.
01:22:02
Speaker
I will say I loved when...
01:22:06
Speaker
When Jokic was told that he had like a crazy amount of triple doubles and he asked, he's like, how many, how many did Jack have?
01:22:14
Speaker
And I think he
Pinball Production Analysis
01:22:15
Speaker
was legitimately asking,
01:22:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:22:17
Speaker
And Shaq said, Shaq had such a great line.
01:22:20
Speaker
He's like, well, big honey, I never passed the ball.
01:22:24
Speaker
That's great.
01:22:28
Speaker
So I will agree though, that Lionel Messi is probably one of the goats right now.
01:22:33
Speaker
And you could, you could argue that I'm just saying that, you know, the, the greatest of the era.
01:22:38
Speaker
So right now I would say the greatest of the era is
01:22:42
Speaker
is probably Godzilla for the, for the, you know, for the foreseeable past because it has, it found the secret sauce of being accessible to entry level players and elite players.
01:22:57
Speaker
Yep.
01:22:58
Speaker
It's definitely the game that has raised the bar for the whole industry and hopefully influences pinball for generations to come because I think that this is the right direction.
01:23:12
Speaker
It's weird to play Godzilla.
01:23:13
Speaker
I got Iron Maiden, and Iron Maiden's a great game.
01:23:16
Speaker
But it's interesting to see how polished and in-depth Godzilla is.
01:23:20
Speaker
I'm not saying that Iron Maiden isn't.
01:23:22
Speaker
But I owned Guardians, and Guardians was a good game, don't get me wrong.
01:23:27
Speaker
but you can feel the transition.
01:23:29
Speaker
Oh yeah.
01:23:30
Speaker
And Guardians and Godzilla are not even five years apart.
01:23:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:23:34
Speaker
And the funny thing is I'm looking at your screen and three of the four games I can see are Elwynn games.
01:23:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:23:40
Speaker
And I do have the Ninja Trolls arcade here.
01:23:43
Speaker
I saw that.
01:23:44
Speaker
And Foo Fighters is going in its spot, which comes this month.
01:23:48
Speaker
But even then it's like Foo Fighters leave if Elwynn does release another game by the end of the year.
01:23:54
Speaker
It's just I find that L1 games are the best for the home environment.
01:23:58
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
01:23:59
Speaker
I appreciate Deadpool.
01:24:00
Speaker
I appreciate Guardians.
01:24:01
Speaker
I appreciate Mandalorian.
01:24:03
Speaker
But I would rather play those on location and go enjoy them on location than spend the money, have the headache of, do I sell this?
01:24:11
Speaker
When do I sell it?
01:24:12
Speaker
Now I'm selling it.
01:24:13
Speaker
Now I'm getting lowballed because someone's offering me half.
01:24:17
Speaker
That person's
Godzilla's Pinball Success
01:24:18
Speaker
never going to get let down.
01:24:19
Speaker
You know that.
01:24:20
Speaker
I have a family crisis.
01:24:21
Speaker
Can you take like $500 off?
01:24:23
Speaker
Yeah.
01:24:24
Speaker
My mother's dying.
01:24:25
Speaker
Can you take like $1,500 off?
01:24:27
Speaker
Okay.
01:24:28
Speaker
True story.
01:24:28
Speaker
That actually happened.
01:24:30
Speaker
That happened.
01:24:30
Speaker
It was just unbelievable.
01:24:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:24:34
Speaker
So...
01:24:37
Speaker
awesome what's ended on that no big fan of godzilla yeah okay but you didn't put you didn't put something in here that i do want to talk about okay let's go for it really quick stern has the masters of the universe license yeah that's what that's what nap arcade jason nap has been on fire lately dude like where do you get these rumors and it's funny because i had okay good or bad thing good
01:25:02
Speaker
Why not?
01:25:03
Speaker
Maybe like, okay.
01:25:04
Speaker
I, I do better or worse than Ninja Turtles.
01:25:07
Speaker
Cause it's the same era.
01:25:08
Speaker
It's eighties.
01:25:09
Speaker
It is the same era.
01:25:10
Speaker
I would say that the turtles have more current,
01:25:15
Speaker
Cool.
01:25:15
Speaker
Caché, some relevance.
01:25:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:25:18
Speaker
I did, surprisingly.
01:25:21
Speaker
I was on call over the weekend, and this is even before the rumor came out.
01:25:24
Speaker
I actually watched the show that Kevin Smith did on Netflix.
01:25:30
Speaker
Okay.
01:25:31
Speaker
Okay.
01:25:31
Speaker
And it was interesting, and I saw, wow, this feels very much like the...
01:25:37
Speaker
the cartoon, but better than I watched as a kid.
01:25:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:25:41
Speaker
Okay.
01:25:42
Speaker
And I was like, okay, well this is, it's actually really well done.
01:25:47
Speaker
And I even had like the action figures as a kid, you know, and I had castle Grayskull and all that.
01:25:53
Speaker
I, I don't know.
01:25:55
Speaker
I, it's, it's not a theme that I connect with anymore.
01:26:00
Speaker
And so like turtles, I can still kind of like, okay, like it takes me back.
01:26:05
Speaker
This one, it just feels like that was an era that for a couple of years, it was really big and they sold a lot of toys and then everybody moved on.
01:26:15
Speaker
It's funny because I don't think He-Man is still relevant, but for some odd reason, Skeletor is.
01:26:21
Speaker
There's so many Skeletor memes and like... Well, it's usually the laughing meme.
01:26:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:27
Speaker
Or the...
01:26:29
Speaker
like highly like weird philosophy memes.
01:26:33
Speaker
So I agree with you.
01:26:34
Speaker
I don't, if they make it, I think there are, I think it will sell.
01:26:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:40
Speaker
To a certain demographic.
01:26:42
Speaker
I also think there are other themes that would sell more on theme alone.
01:26:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:48
Speaker
I agree.
01:26:49
Speaker
So.
01:26:51
Speaker
Okay.
01:26:52
Speaker
Once, once again, I think I, yeah.
01:26:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:54
Speaker
I'm not much for a He-Man game.
01:26:56
Speaker
I'd have to, I'd have to play it kind of thing.
01:26:58
Speaker
Right.
01:26:58
Speaker
And I, okay, to be fair, I said, I'm not interested in the Godzilla theme.
01:27:03
Speaker
Yeah.
01:27:05
Speaker
And I still am not like, it's not a theme that I love, but it's, it's a fun campy theme that has worked out fabulously.
01:27:15
Speaker
Yeah.
Future Pinball Themes and Engagement
01:27:16
Speaker
You know what's funny is we did a joke.
01:27:18
Speaker
So the second interview we did with Keith, was it second or third?
01:27:21
Speaker
Yeah.
01:27:22
Speaker
Where we floated it out there, like what would be the worst theme for pinball?
01:27:27
Speaker
Right.
01:27:27
Speaker
Because we didn't tell anyone that Ellen was coming on.
01:27:29
Speaker
And we got some of the funniest themes.
01:27:31
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:27:33
Speaker
And we read them off to Elwin and some of them include like C-SPAN, the government general that watches Congress.
01:27:40
Speaker
And he picked out Laundry Day and started explaining like the mechs he would put in there.
01:27:47
Speaker
And the rules.
01:27:47
Speaker
And the rules.
01:27:49
Speaker
And we were kind of blown away.
01:27:50
Speaker
And what's funny is we actually have people that still message us to this day that say we would actually like a Laundry Day pinball.
01:27:58
Speaker
If Elwin was making it.
01:28:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:28:01
Speaker
He is.
01:28:03
Speaker
What's the fairy tale where they spin straw into gold?
01:28:10
Speaker
Godzilla is the perfect example of spinning straw into gold.
01:28:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:28:13
Speaker
And it's alchemy.
01:28:15
Speaker
Because Godzilla, you got to admit, it was not right.
01:28:18
Speaker
Godzilla was a C-list, maybe D-list theme.
01:28:23
Speaker
Because even the new movies have been fine.
01:28:25
Speaker
Yeah.
01:28:27
Speaker
They're a popcorn movie.
01:28:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad they actually went with the campy rubber suit fighting guys.
01:28:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:28:36
Speaker
Which, by the way, if you're looking to make a new pinball machine, apparently Alien is the new meta too.
01:28:40
Speaker
You've got Aliens and Godzilla.
01:28:42
Speaker
You've got Aliens and Foo Fighters.
01:28:44
Speaker
You've got Galacta Tang 4 about aliens.
01:28:46
Speaker
You've got Space Hunts about aliens.
01:28:48
Speaker
You've got, you know what I'm saying?
01:28:49
Speaker
Like,
01:28:50
Speaker
Really, Godfather is the only one that stepped out of that equation at this point.
01:28:54
Speaker
Okay.
01:28:54
Speaker
What it reminds me, though, do you remember that the kids show Bolt when the pigeons come up?
01:29:00
Speaker
Yes.
01:29:01
Speaker
Hey, hey, we got a great idea.
01:29:03
Speaker
Okay.
01:29:03
Speaker
Wait for it.
01:29:04
Speaker
Wait for it.
01:29:05
Speaker
Wait for it.
01:29:06
Speaker
Aliens.
01:29:07
Speaker
Oh, snap.
01:29:09
Speaker
Aliens.
01:29:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:29:10
Speaker
There it is.
01:29:11
Speaker
And then they show at the end of the movie.
01:29:14
Speaker
Aliens show up.
01:29:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:29:15
Speaker
Aliens show up and adopt the girl.
01:29:17
Speaker
And they turn off the TV.
01:29:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:29:17
Speaker
Yep.
01:29:21
Speaker
Oh, that's okay.
01:29:22
Speaker
That's a great note to the end.
01:29:23
Speaker
We're going to end it there.
01:29:24
Speaker
If you want to get a hold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:29:30
Speaker
We're also on the socials, Facebook, Twitter, Twitch, Tik TOK, which we have not released a video on there.
01:29:37
Speaker
YouTube.
01:29:38
Speaker
I know we, I figured we'd get the name all at loser kid pinball.
01:29:42
Speaker
So if you want to find us, follow us that way or just shoot us a message on messenger between Josh Roop or Scott Larson.
01:29:51
Speaker
If you're not friends with a bunch of pinball people, it might be a little bit harder to find us because Scott Larson's kind of a generic name.
01:29:56
Speaker
Josh Roop isn't.
01:29:58
Speaker
It's not.
01:29:58
Speaker
R-O-O-P is very different.
01:30:00
Speaker
Yeah, get a hold of us that way.
01:30:03
Speaker
Give us a last thought, Scott.
01:30:05
Speaker
You know what?
01:30:05
Speaker
I am super excited and please Stern make Super Mario Brothers work.
01:31:22
Speaker
The sound of the sun
01:32:42
Speaker
Begin or begin the task.