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The One With More Women of the Marching Arts
128 Plays16 days ago
In this Women’s History Month special, we’re bringing you an episode full of inspiration, empowerment, and wisdom from some of the brightest and most powerful women in the marching arts world. Hosted by Alicia Sharp, with a dynamic group of rotating co-hosts including Ashlee Amos, Nicole Younger, and Whitney Stone, this episode dives deep into their experiences, challenges, and triumphs as they share their journeys in a traditionally male-dominated field.
This week’s episode is packed with incredible conversations about leadership, mentorship, and breaking barriers. The panel talks about gender issues in marching arts, the progress being made, and how they are shaping the future for the next generation of women in the activity. We also explore burnout, career transitions, and the power of building confidence and authenticity.
🌟 KEY SEGMENTS INCLUDE:
⏱ 32-Count Life StoriesEach guest shares their journey in the marching arts, from early musical experiences to their current roles as leaders, educators, and performers. Get to know Holly Connell, Cecilia Clark, Katie Zheng, and Jenna N. Foley as they open up about their personal paths.
🎧 60 Second Tech BlockOne of the rotating hosts takes the challenge and delivers a rapid-fire technical session on twirling techniques, including tips for catching under stadium lights, offering an exclusive glimpse into the world of twirling and color guard.
💬 Water We DoingThe hosts reflect on their experiences and share insights about navigating the hurdles of being women in the marching arts world. They discuss the pressures of being perfect and overcoming gender biases, while uplifting one another.
🔥 Gush and GoCelebrate wins with the hosts as they share exciting announcements and updates! From Katie Zheng's recent WGI victory with Fishers High School to Holly Connell's inspiring path forward in her career, there’s a lot to celebrate in this heartfelt segment.
Featured Guests Social Media Links:
- Katie Zheng: Instagram: @katiezheng99
- Holly Connell: Instagram: @hollyrebecca61 | Facebook: Holly Rebecca
- Cecilia Clark: Instagram: @ceciliavclark
- Jenna N. Foley: Instagram: @jennafoleymusic | Facebook: Jenna N. Foley
- Courtney Allyson Mills: Instagram: @camills_cr8tive | Bluesky: @lovecam.bsky.social | Website: camillscreative.com
🔗 Follow Us On Social Media:
- Instagram: @on_a_water_break
- Facebook: On A Water Break Podcast
- YouTube: On A Water Break YouTube Channel
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Transcript
Introduction and New Host
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey everyone and welcome back to On A Water Break, the podcast where we talk about everything you and your friends are talking about at rehearsal on a water break. This week we are continuing with Women's History Month and a full panel of powerful women.
00:00:13
Speaker
We'll find out what made Nicole say. You know, here's the thing. I'm such a fraidy cat when it comes to certain things. but like I love watching Drew Cromwell. It's... And why Whitney said... and just think she's awesome, so she's one of the first, like, strong females that I think of in the marching arts.
00:00:32
Speaker
All this and more on this week's episode of On a Water Break.
00:00:38
Speaker
Eight off the mat and go. Welcome to On a Water Break.
00:00:45
Speaker
The podcast where we talk everything marching arts.
00:00:51
Speaker
Hey
00:00:55
Speaker
everyone, it's Alicia, and this is my first episode hosting. So just like everyone's first rep, we get this one for free, already messed up once. We're not going to talk about it. We have a great episode this week for Women's History Month. Last week's episode was with the amazing Denise Bonfiglio, and it was a great way to kick off the month.
00:01:14
Speaker
This episode is bringing the same female power energy. Before we see who's on the sidelines this week, go and subscribe and hit the notifications on your favorite listening app. Write us a review, share this with a friend.
00:01:27
Speaker
If you've got a question or a good topic to talk about, email us at onawaterbreakpodcast at gmail.com or find us on social media and DM us if you want to be on the show. We even have a form now that you can fill out if you want to be a guest.
00:01:41
Speaker
We love having people on the podcast. So check that out at our link in our bio on our social media.
Panelist Introductions and Roles
00:01:46
Speaker
Okay, let's see who's on the sidelines this week for our all-female panel. Ashley, it has been a hot minute since we've seen you on. How's your winter going? How is the twirling world?
00:01:56
Speaker
It has been so long since I've been on here. ah can't even remember the last time, but we're not going to talk about that. Yeah. ah My winter, actually, we haven't even had our first show yet because it's only our second season doing indoor, and our first show got canceled due to weather.
00:02:17
Speaker
I know. The snow, the rain, the everything that was the weekend of February something in the beginning. I don't know. Yeah. twirling world.
00:02:29
Speaker
we're like in the midst of competition season. Next weekend is Congressional Cup, which is in Maryland. Me and both of my parents are actually judging at the competition.
00:02:41
Speaker
So that will be really fun. All family events. That's what we do on a lot of the weekends, like in the spring, take family trips and to different states and judge around. But it's it's really good. Everyone's looking well rehearsed.
00:02:57
Speaker
it's just like a fight for like spot and like the competition because this is a world's qualifying year for everything. So everything has been little cutthroat.
00:03:10
Speaker
ah That is fascinating. so The twirling world is dramatic, like even more dramatic than Killingard. That's true. So um I would love to pick your brain sometime about like how it's judged. and We hosted a show at a school I worked at once and it the whole day, again, fascinating to me. So, you know, maybe we'll save that at some time. I'd love to see like a comparison, maybe future episode. Sure.
00:03:34
Speaker
Ooh, yeah. Yeah, that'd be fun. So, and I see we've got Nicole and Whitney, but they are over there working on an issue with the color guard and I don't even want to get involved, but they'll be coming back for the next segment with Courtney, Allison Mills. So you guys will want to stick around for that.
00:03:51
Speaker
Now, though, I am excited to welcome some brand new ladies to the podcast. This is a cool panel because everyone is directly connected to somebody that is already on the panel or on the podcast. So it's like we have our family here.
00:04:05
Speaker
ah First up is a friend of mine who has a really interesting story to tell later. But Miss Holly Cannell. Hi, Holly. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. I'm really glad that you asked me to do this.
00:04:19
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad you could come We also have a friend of Ricardo's coming to us from Georgia, Cecilia Clark. Hi, Cecilia. Hi. So glad to be here with you ladies.
00:04:31
Speaker
Yeah, and then we have a friend of Austin and an amazing woman in her own right. Please welcome Katie Zing. Hi, excited to be here with all of you.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah, glad to have you. so I'm to pull something I saw Nicole pull a couple weeks ago. But now that we have met everybody, we would normally go and do a news segment.
00:04:54
Speaker
But going to pull it this week and say no news. We're here with four incredible women in the
Unique Perspectives of Women in Marching Arts
00:05:00
Speaker
marching arts. You guys each bring a unique perspective from the podium to the classroom, to the field.
00:05:05
Speaker
So I want to jump right into it. Are you guys cool with that? No news is good news. Yeah. Right. So, and you know what? It's not been a heavy week for news in the marching arts world anyway. So I have a quote that I read that, you know, talked about, you know, the marching arts and said, we also have a friend of Peyton's, Ms. Jenna Foley. Jenna, welcome to the podcast.
00:05:30
Speaker
Hi, thank you so much for having me on. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, I'm so excited that all of you guys could be here. Again, welcome to On a Water Break. Yes. Yes. Okay, so it is time for our 32 count life stories. It's one of our favorite segments on the show.
00:05:46
Speaker
In this segment, our guests get Adolph the Met to prepare, and then you have 32 counts to share your journey from birth to whatever you had for breakfast today, whatever you want it to be.
00:05:57
Speaker
and Holly, are you set? Sure, why not? Everyone else will be like, it's all uphill from here. Yeah, you can do it. I believe in you. Born piano, flute, recorder, actual flute, middle school, high school, went to college, became a band director, the elementary school, not a thing.
Leadership Challenges and Experiences
00:06:17
Speaker
Middle school, 13 years. ah High school, those are my people. Six through 12, that's a little bit much. And on a water break.
00:06:28
Speaker
love that you can just give us like slam poetry.
00:06:35
Speaker
That was awesome. Great job. Okay. Cecilia, I am so sorry you have to follow that, but are you ready? I'm not nearly as prepared. I'm ready.
00:06:47
Speaker
I'm telling you, I stressed about this all day. So while I was working on saxophones, that's what was going through my head.
00:06:55
Speaker
I'm a drummer. I can't multitask like that. Okay. Okay. Okay, Cecilia, you can do it. So I was born and raised on Andrews Air Force Base, just outside of Washington, D.C.
00:07:09
Speaker
My parents raised me as their only child who did music. I was an organist because it was the 70s. And then I became a percussionist.
00:07:19
Speaker
I am a first-generation college graduate, I'm super excited to be where I am. As a high school band director, I've been teaching for 29 years.
00:07:32
Speaker
I can't even believe it.
00:07:36
Speaker
That is awesome. And you did great. You did great. See, no stress. All right, Katie, are you ready for yours? I think so. Okay, you can do it.
00:07:48
Speaker
I was born and raised in Western Kentucky. i started dancing when I was five years old. I did ballet, tap, lyrical, modern. And then I started band in middle school, started playing trumpet, went all the way through high school, four years of marking band.
00:08:03
Speaker
I started marking drum corps when I was 16. And then I went on to go get my degree in music in college. I marched five years of Brum Corps in total. And then started teaching marching band, taught troopers the last three years. And I work at Fishers High School in Indianapolis now.
00:08:21
Speaker
Oh, awesome. I'm a big fan of what's been happening with the troopers the last few years too. That's fantastic. And love Fishers. All right. We have um one more. Jenna, can you wrap us up with an awesome 32 count life story?
00:08:35
Speaker
Yes, I can. I believe I can at least.
00:08:41
Speaker
Hi, so my name is Jenna N. Foley. I'm from Livingston, New Jersey. I, as a young'un, played softball and soccer and basketball and a bunch of sports. But when I hit high school, I was like, let me do this marching band thing. So I picked up a bass drum and never kind of stopped.
00:08:55
Speaker
I also was drum major for two years in high school, played quads as well. And I went on to Kutztown University, had four great years on drum line there, was their president for my fifth year, Kutztown University marching unit baby.
00:09:08
Speaker
I also went to Georgian Parks Drum Major Academy for multiple years, worked with them, and then now I'm with Hawthorne Caballeros at Houston Fusion Tour. That was great. I need more like a 64.
00:09:21
Speaker
That's okay. That's okay. And but that's cool though, because you all have so much experience in the activity, which, you know, the activity that has tri traditionally, excuse me, been a very male dominated field, especially in leadership.
00:09:35
Speaker
So I really want to talk to you each about a time when you felt like you really had to prove yourself as a female in the activity. and Jenna, you just mentioned working with Fusion Corps and you're the drum major for Fusion Corps, right?
00:09:48
Speaker
Um, so I was formally the drum major for for the past two years and I will be a assistant drum major with the Hawthorne Cavaleros this year. Okay. Awesome. so you know, the all age cores have definitely like provided us with more opportunity for female leadership and drum majors, but what, tell me about your experience.
00:10:07
Speaker
um So specifically within the drum core world being a female drum major, I mean, it's, it's kind of a crazy thing to think about because as you were saying our activity used to be so male dominated i mean i'm extremely lucky to be one of the first women drum majors ever at hawthorne caballeros like we can still only count us on two hands and uh this summer thank you this summer we're going to be the first female drum major team at hawthorne caballeros so that's going to be really awesome in our
00:10:38
Speaker
Thank you, in our 79-year history. So I'm excited to be a part of that team. And in general, being a female drum major, I feel like there's always all this pressure of like you have to be on your A-game because you have to show that you do know what you're talking about because any slip-up, some people are going to think, oh, you're not qualified. Even taking away from the gender bias, like, oh, you're not qualified to be up there because you slip up on this one thing.
00:11:03
Speaker
And it's amplified because I'm a woman. And it's it's definitely come a long way, even in my, which is so wild to say, my decade of marching as of the summer um in general. But my now three years in drum corps, it's even changed from each season. Like when I first became a drum major in 2017 with Livingston, it was way different than it is coming into this 2025 season with Hawthorne.
00:11:30
Speaker
yeah Yeah, absolutely. You just you triggered you know memory for me that my very first year of drum corps, which I'm not going to talk about the year, but we had a female drum major and it was, this is going to age me, it was Division one at the time.
00:11:47
Speaker
and And there were only two Division I female drum majors that entire year. So it's cool to see so many barrier-breaking new women. in the activity doing this leading groups. It's really, really cool.
00:11:59
Speaker
And we're starting to see other drum corps as well, such as CV. They had an all-female drum major team last year, and I believe Mandy was within the most recent years as well. So it's great that we're starting to see this yeah trickle throughout the whole entire um drum corps international. And now that's starting to trickle down to the all-age division as well.
00:12:19
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I'm going to profess my love for Kim Roman of Hawthorne Caballeros because I love that woman. Go cabs. But next question is for Cecilia.
Mentorship and Overcoming Burnout
00:12:33
Speaker
What was your experience like becoming a band director in a field where most it's mostly men in these head director positions?
00:12:43
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think what's great is like, Jenna, you've already talked about that, right? That landscape is changing. And I'm so glad to be able to see that because I think I mentioned in my 32 count, I've been doing this for 29 years.
00:12:58
Speaker
And so I was, came on the scene when there weren't very many women doing it. So the fact that we're seeing more females leading at that younger level, I know that someday that that's going to change. Because for me, when I started teaching, less than 20% of all high school band directors were women.
00:13:23
Speaker
Just all, right? And Of that, and it's actually the number at the time was 17.2%. Why do I know that? Because of course I noticed, right? And of that less than 20% across the United States of all the women that are out there, less than half of those women were head directors.
00:13:45
Speaker
Right, right. You could be a band director, but you can't be in charge. And then of those half of the women who got to be head directors, less than half of those women lead programs that the Department of Education would consider large or suburban programs, right? so So women like myself who get to have a band and a large band is considered more than 80.
00:14:14
Speaker
Right. So to have 200 kids in my program, to be in Metro Atlanta as head director, that's still kind of unheard of in 2025. So having people like y'all who are leading programs at your age, that's how it's going to change.
00:14:32
Speaker
Because I started at a time where Honestly, in Pennsylvania, i just we just didn't even talk about it. I was i was i was dressing a part of the male band director because I didn't know what it looked like to be a female band director. i was wearing a suit.
00:14:50
Speaker
I wasn't wearing flowers. I wasn't wearing dangly earrings. I wasn't wearing a skirt because I was just trying to fit in with the guys. And now to be in 2025 and be able to celebrate, really truly celebrate women, I'm just so proud to see that change in my career because it is changing because of young women like yourselves that are just boldly entering the profession and taking those leadership roles. So it's just awesome.
00:15:18
Speaker
Cecilia, it's so cool. how you've been able to kind of carve such an like an awesome path. I think you and Holly could be, you could have a lot to talk about because I know her experience has been very similar.
00:15:32
Speaker
ah Holly, i was I was going to talk to you and ask you about the frustration you once shared with me of having to constantly correct people that, no, you're not the garden instructor. I think you've also had a similar experience with Cecilia where and even though you might have been the person who was the most qualified in the room to be leading a program. You had to kind of fight for trust in programs you've worked in, right?
00:15:59
Speaker
It's pretty much anywhere that I've ever been. And, you know Cecilia, you were talking about the percentages of women in certain programs or like, especially as head, you know, head directors. yeah I think if you really look at those numbers too, you see a lot where women end up like you can get to middle school and it's okay for women to be at the middle school level, but still in so many places, it's just not okay for a woman to be the head director of a high school.
00:16:25
Speaker
And, you know, as much as I hate to say it, there are still so very sadly places in this country that just will not hire a woman to take those jobs, even if the woman is clearly the most qualified candidate.
00:16:39
Speaker
And it's yeah, I know. Right. It's 2025. And it's it's just really unfortunate. And. I hope that that will change in time. It's clearly a very slow change, as all of us probably know. um We probably all wish that there are things that would change tomorrow to make our lives so much easier.
00:16:59
Speaker
But like Cecilia, I mean, I'll take the wins for now. or There are more women and there are more younger women. And so there is hope. We just have to keep plugging away and doing the things that we know how to do.
00:17:12
Speaker
And just proving that, you know, we are equals with them. We're not. And, you know, I don't think there's anyone that would say that they're trying to be better than. In large part, like we are just we're equals like we do the same work. We want the same results as them. And so we're just asking to be treated equally with them.
00:17:35
Speaker
Not a big ask. No, not. Well, I don't think so. Like I always say, what do I know? All right, we're going to move on to our next question. This is for Katie. as a visual tech and a brass instructor, have you ever felt that your authority or expertise was questioned because of your gender?
00:17:55
Speaker
I think it's especially difficult as a woman in a leadership role in the activity, mainly because a lot of people view the things that you say and do under a microscope, kind of waiting for you to say the wrong thing or fail at something and then use it as a way to deflect the real work that you do and your credibility.
00:18:14
Speaker
um I think it's also a really common reaction in the judging community. I've been in positions and critiques where going into it, if it's overarching visual caption, a lot of the times people will just kind of assume that you're the color guard person or the dance person when you are visual instructor or brass instructor in a leadership role. So it is really frustrating. And then you kind of get stuck in these cycles where you're always trying to like be perfect and put up a front that you kind of have it all together all the time. And it just becomes really difficult to keep up with that over your own authenticity.
00:18:50
Speaker
So i think once you let go of that kind of fear of failing and letting other people's opinions dictate your worth as an instructor, that's when the real growth starts to kind of happen. So it does take time, but it it does start to get better as you push past those like judgments.
00:19:08
Speaker
ah Katie, that was such a good point about like just feeling like you have to always be perfect in order to like be respected in your position. So good. And you really led us to the next point that we wanted to talk about, which was, you know, leadership in the activity. You know, you guys all just had spoke very intelligently about your experience.
00:19:32
Speaker
What is something for all of you that, you know, you maybe wish you had learned earlier in the activity or that you wish more women knew? and know, Jenna, particularly for JAR majors, do you have any advice?
00:19:44
Speaker
I say I would have a two-parter for this one. ah My first piece of advice would be don't be afraid to get emotional. That is something that women are crucified for, but emotion, specifically facial expressions, is something that is so important for a drum major.
00:20:01
Speaker
That is one of the things that I've been complimented on probably the most within my conducting, other than like patterns and stuff and so on and so forth. The oddball of it all would be pointing out my facial expressions. That's something that a from members, from staff, so and so forth. So don't be afraid to get emotional on the field and get into the music because it's
Career Advice and Authenticity
00:20:25
Speaker
and important. and It's important for any performer, but the stereotype with women is, oh, they're so emotional.
00:20:31
Speaker
Okay, so then be emotional. Get into your performance. b the perform the yeah we try that again Be the performer that gets emotional,
00:20:42
Speaker
that calls out to the kid in the stand Because the kid's going to remember the person getting emotional and getting into their performance rather than the person just going through the moves. Yeah, thank you.
00:20:56
Speaker
And I guess like bouncing off that, my second piece was go for the gold. When I stepped into Fusion Corps and before I continue with my next statement, I have to say, I love Kyle DeFranco. Do not get me wrong. Kyle DeFranco, my predecessor at Fusion Corps, absolute godsend of a man. Him and I have had many, many conversations.
00:21:12
Speaker
I still have to tell him I'm contracted at Hawthorne. So, Kyle, if you're listening, this is how you're finding out. I have to text you still. um
00:21:21
Speaker
ae
00:21:23
Speaker
Following him in Fusion, had very, very big shoes to fill. And that was intimidating for me towards the beginning of my time with Fusion, which I joined Fusion 23, like, Memorial Day weekend-ish.
00:21:35
Speaker
But at one point during that season, I did finally just let it relax. And the thought of, oh, I have to try and get this award. oh I have to try and lead the ensemble to this award. i eventually let that roll off my back and in turn made that happen.
00:21:52
Speaker
I was able to lead Fusion to ah ah third place winning that year with second place percussion, which is absolutely phenomenal. And obviously it's not my work. um It's the work of the members, but I'm honored enough to get the lead them on the field for that.
00:22:06
Speaker
And then I was also very honored to take home the last ah Drum Corps Associates Open Class Drum Major Award, which I was very, very honored and very humbled to be a part. John Cower and I have had multiple conversation about it. And as you can see on video, I'm still blushing about it.
00:22:22
Speaker
But that wouldn't have been possible if I continued to let it in my head, get in my head to go for the gold. And when I stopped, I know I said, I like, oh, go for the gold every time.
00:22:33
Speaker
But when I stopped truly thinking about that, that's when I was able to succeed to that and help others succeed to that.
00:22:42
Speaker
um Yes. Cecilia, as a band director, how do you mentor young women in your program to become leaders? Hmm.
00:22:53
Speaker
I, I think that I just mentor all of my students to become leaders equally. I don't know that there is a specific path for women because at the end of the day, I don't ever, I don't appreciate it when someone says, wow, she's really good at that for a woman.
00:23:12
Speaker
Hmm. Or wow, right? Oh, she's a good conductor for a woman or she's a good drummer as a female. I don't ever want that qualifier. So I think it's really important that young students who aspire to be leaders just approach it.
00:23:31
Speaker
in the same way, right? We just want them to embrace the idea that if I am going to lead program, it's my responsibility to be the absolute best version of myself.
00:23:43
Speaker
I just have to be great human. Doesn't matter what your gender is, right? I just have to be a great musician, doesn't matter what instrument you play. I have to be a really incredible performer. I have to have strong character.
00:23:57
Speaker
have to be a person that people can trust.
Courtney Mills on Self-Awareness and Education
00:24:00
Speaker
I can be a person that just, I've got all my stuff together because if I've got 120 people that are counting on me, I better know what's up, right?
00:24:10
Speaker
So being the most prepared, being the one that's willing to always work hard, setting aside your personal needs sometimes to serve others. i just want to instill that in all of my students.
00:24:25
Speaker
But i wait I just, for any of the, you know, my students who identify as female who will want that role, if I ask them, you know, when they ask me, what do I need to do?
00:24:35
Speaker
You just need to be so good at what you do. It's undeniable. You're the best dot, dot, dot. and And then you earn that position.
00:24:47
Speaker
That's the word I was thinking. it Like right before you said it, I was like undeniable. Then you said it. You read my mind. Perfect. I guess that's it, right? That's it. That's what's got to happen.
00:24:59
Speaker
Holly, I really wanted to bring you on this episode because you have such a unique perspective. Having... wrestled with the decision really, and then ultimately decided to step away from and teaching after what, a 21 year long career or so. I mean, and I think burnout is such a real issue for so many educators.
00:25:21
Speaker
You know, how did you recognize the signs of that burnout and and what advice could you offer to other female directors who are experiencing that? Yeah, it was it was definitely not an easy decision when you i mean you teach for 20 years and that's your whole life. I mean, you you look at it and you go, well, what am what am I going to do if I leave teaching? know What's next?
00:25:45
Speaker
There were a couple of things that happened. I was in one particular teaching situation that was challenging, very challenging. As an assistant director, um there were just a lot of things that were happening that were creating unnecessary stress.
00:26:01
Speaker
Unfortunately, is it was my dream job. It literally had everything that I wanted in a job. I would have loved to have stayed there for the rest of my career and retired from there. But sometimes things just conspire against you and it's just not meant to be. So in trying to kind of mitigate some of that stress, I made a job change.
00:26:21
Speaker
to get out of the situation. Sometimes removing yourself from a situation, all you need to be able to, you know, kind of rekindle your passion and find your footing again. And so I made that decision and ah took another position and in some ways it was better, but in other ways, like I feel like as a teacher, my lot in life has been to fix the dumpster fires of people who have come before me. I'm like, and you know, when you hit. That's the life of a woman.
00:26:52
Speaker
Yeah. My gosh. It's not, I mean, it's hilarious, but it's really not funny at the same time. But I mean, every job that I have ever had has followed someone who literally left a dumpster fire. And so There was never an opportunity where I could just come in and, you know, maybe make small changes here and there just based on my. So now, this is like the ship is sinking and you better stick everything you can in every hole you can find. Keep this thing from going down kind of thing. And so the last program that I took was another one of those. And it was a mid-year job change, which brings its own set of challenges um in itself.
00:27:30
Speaker
But the environment was good. And so, you know, for like the first first semester so, i was like, okay, we got to marching season and it was good. Like, I did the best I could with what I had to work with. And Alicia, you were there. You had a front row seat to what I had to work with. And it wasn't much at all.
00:27:51
Speaker
I want, Holly, if you don't mind for me to interrupt you, I really want to defend you here for a second because I know you'll never say this yourself either, but... You took a job in the deep South and the rural deep South. And as a woman, there was even more of a barrier for you because everyone expected a man to do your job and they were not happy that a woman got the job.
00:28:17
Speaker
No, they weren't. And, you know, I try to make, I really try to make the best of it. And you know what we did? We like, I sat the kids down and we had a conversation and we laid out some goals and we just, we went for them. of like Jenna was saying, like, go for the gold.
00:28:33
Speaker
Like the kids kind of had what their things were in mind and we went for it. And by golly, we did it. You know, it it was not easy. And I think a lot of people were really surprised by what we did. I was surprised by what we did, quite frankly.
00:28:49
Speaker
But as we got into the next semester, um you know, I got to December and I was tired. And, you know, Alicia, you having seen what I did, I mean, I was exhausted. And the the drive to my job was particularly challenging. It was two and a half hour commute every day.
00:29:04
Speaker
So that's round round trip. So that alone will start to wear on you after a while. So you leave your house at six o'clock in the morning to get to work by 730 and you know teach all day at school, have after school rehearsal, all the things. And then you finally make it home 12 hours later.
00:29:23
Speaker
And so I kind of started like I was tired. And so i was like, OK, well, is this tired or is this burnout showing itself back up again? And I was like, well, let's just get to the end of the school year because we're not going to pull another middle of the year stunt. That's just a bad idea for everyone.
00:29:39
Speaker
So um but I was in rehearsal one day and was looking at the kids and I had stopped for some reason. I don't even know why those kids look like they would rather be anywhere in the world.
00:29:53
Speaker
than in that band room. And it was at that moment that I thought, you know what? It's like, I don't blame the kids because kids are a reflection of their director nine times out of 10. Like they do as we do.
00:30:05
Speaker
And so it was in that moment that I was like, you know what? I am like, I have nothing left to give. And these kids don't deserve that. No kid does. um And so I think it was that day that I went home and i told my husband, I was like, I think I need to be done teaching.
00:30:23
Speaker
I just, I don't know where I can go. I don't know what I could, but this is not the place for me. And these kids deserve better than what I can give them right now. So I made the choice to step away.
00:30:36
Speaker
And for the month of June and pretty much the month of July, I did nothing. And by nothing, I mean nothing. Like there was a lot of going to the pool and a lot of Netflix watching.
00:30:50
Speaker
um So, and then there was the, you know, okay, well, my last paycheck is coming. I better have some source of income. So, you know, that kind of thing. But I have, I have taken this school year and it honestly was not until about a month ago that I even had any desire to listen to concert band music.
00:31:11
Speaker
My son is junior in high school. He is in band. He loves all things band. I'll be just be honest, going to his concerts was a struggle. I really want to go. ah like i mean, we're talking like serious burnout.
00:31:25
Speaker
But it is like it is coming back. and And I think sometimes you just get to a point where it's a hard decision. And, you know, at first I was like, I'm never going back.
00:31:38
Speaker
And then about six months, you know,
Critique on Design vs. Educational Quality
00:31:40
Speaker
or so I was like, maybe. And I think the answer now, it will go back at some point. But I've made a list and these are the things that have to happen in order for me to be able to go back and maintain my sanity so in the process. Because the job, know, I think as women, you know, we talk a lot about we are under a microscope and I don't think there's any escaping that as much as all of us would love for that to go away. It's just not.
00:32:09
Speaker
I had a wonderful conversation with Paula Kreider early on in my career and I was talking about this very thing You know she made the comment, you know, as the first female band director, female high school band director in Texas, back in the day when there were zero females, you know, doing what she did.
00:32:27
Speaker
She said, you know, unfortunately, your band is always going to have to be light years better than any man's in order to get even a quarter of the respect that they get.
00:32:39
Speaker
And I don't know about all the rest of you, but I have found that to be so incredibly true through my entire career. It's hard. It's very hard to do what we do.
00:32:49
Speaker
We love our kids. And I think we love our kids fiercely. And I think we love our kids fiercely in a way that men can't because they're not built that way. And that's okay. That's what makes...
00:33:02
Speaker
Being a band director is special. And that's what makes us so good at our jobs, even though we don't necessarily like to wear pants all the time.
00:33:14
Speaker
Which that's a whole other story. Like, don't even get me started on like how we should be dressing. Cecilia, I'm sure you could go right there with me. And that goes back to the whole, like getting you confused if you're the color guard instructor.
00:33:25
Speaker
But anyway, um... There's just, there is so much and we have so much to offer when we're given the opportunity. But for me, going back, like we, they're just, I have to set some pretty hard, fast boundaries about what my next position is going to look like so that I can be my best to give my best back to the kids.
00:33:50
Speaker
Because if I'm not my best and the kids aren't happy, then what's the point? I mean, there is no point at all because band should be fun and it should be the best part of everyone's day because band kids are the best kids. like We all know that, but they can't be the best kids if we don't have it in us to be able to show them how to be the best kids.
00:34:10
Speaker
So when I said at the end of my, my 32 count thing on a water break, I am on a water break, a year long water break at this point. Um, But it's been good. and learning things about myself, I'll just go ahead and say it. I put myself in therapy because there was so much that had happened.
00:34:31
Speaker
i was having trouble processing the emotions that sometimes go along with that. And I needed someone else to kind of ask the right questions. I'm really good at burying everything.
00:34:42
Speaker
i'd rather I'd rather go swim for an hour or you know run for a while and to have to face things. But I think the only way to be the best version of me going forward is to just, we got to beat this one with a little different method than in the past.
00:35:01
Speaker
So I hope that kind of answers your question. Absolutely. That was a fantastic response. Like, it felt like you were almost talking to me. you know, I hate that. My personal life, like and all of it.
00:35:19
Speaker
And if you have kids, like, you know, like i said, I have a 16 year old and you know, when you do this job and they're also in band, you're dealing with two different band schedules and and And then next year, my kid's going to, like, he'll be a senior. And it's just, it's a lot.
00:35:33
Speaker
That's a whole different perspective, too, as parent of a kid that's in band. But... That was really well-answered question. Really, really, really well.
00:35:45
Speaker
Which kind of leads us into our next question. Katie, how would you encourage or how do you encourage ah young female performers to step up as leaders in visual and music instruction throughout your your teaching career?
00:36:03
Speaker
I think a lot of it for me is a personal journey as like growing up as a woman of color and also in living in a rural area growing up where like diversity was really scarce.
00:36:15
Speaker
I just wish I had somebody who looked like me leading leading the charge and kind of being able to look up to that person as someone that I aspired to be, which didn't really happen. So it took a lot of time to kind of figure out my own strides and my own confidence. So a lot of what my personal mission is, is just building up female performers and their confidence and their skills and like encouraging excellence over everything.
00:36:42
Speaker
And also knowing that you will have to work twice as hard to get half the credit of most of your male counterparts, but
Courtney's Interests and Engagement
00:36:50
Speaker
for over that, like excellence instead of perfection all the time. So confidence usually think is described almost like it's supposed to be a feeling that you have.
00:37:02
Speaker
But I think it's a lot more complex than just feeling a certain emotion. You have to continually choose to show up for yourself every single day. And that confidence is a mindset that you have to choose to go after, even when you're in a place of like anxiety or fear. And eventually, it kind of just becomes a second nature muscle memory the more that you choose to show up for yourself.
00:37:25
Speaker
Just like the same skills that we teach in like marching technique or playing your instrument. It's also skill that you should have to be successful and to feel empowered. Yeah. Come on. We're learning life lessons on a water break.
00:37:39
Speaker
Right. And I love it. love it. so I need this right now. Yeah. It's like our own therapy. But in that same sense, you know, those life lessons, we have to get back out to rehearsal or we're going to get yelled at.
00:37:53
Speaker
But real quickly, if you could go back and say one sentence to yourself at the beginning of your career, you know, about being a woman in the marching arts, what would that be? What would you say to yourself? Jenna, you want to start us off?
00:38:08
Speaker
ah Sure. I do have like one sentence, but I think it does need like explanation to it. So we'll ramble a teeny tiny bit. But I think the sentence I would give to myself, again, thinking back on a decade now, again, as of this summer, it'll be 10 years of me marching, which is wild.
00:38:23
Speaker
But I think telling myself and this smile, can i because I can picture the photo of me I get emotional thinking about because it's been 10 years, but I think about the photo of me with my braces and the bass drum on and the sports sunglasses and the makeshift pad we had to make for my hips because I got such bad bruises my first year.
00:38:42
Speaker
And I look at that girl in my head and think about just live in the moment. um Don't stress about too many things. Don't stress about...
00:38:53
Speaker
who and what person might be trying to tear you down because no matter what gender they are, that doesn't mean it's a reflection of you. Either somebody talking about how I played a drum a certain way or staff members doubting myb ability. I would just go on to prove them wrong in the end, live in the moment because that's all I could do.
00:39:15
Speaker
I went on to win the best drum major award that year when I had people...
00:39:23
Speaker
And then like thinking about me back 10 years ago, like that little kid with the bass drum, like living in the moment, not worrying about what other people might be saying because you're going to go far, kid. Like that statement rings true. ah Cecilia, one sentence.
00:39:42
Speaker
Don't allow your a success to be defined by someone else.
00:39:52
Speaker
I spent, I wasted too much time in my career trying to prove myself, try to be a cool kid, one of the guys, whatever it is, keep up with, I don't know, all of those things.
00:40:06
Speaker
And the moment when I decided it was no, that wasn't, that wasn't my goal. but my what My ultimate definition of success was was the success of but the students in the classroom sitting in front of me.
00:40:21
Speaker
And I wasn't going to allow anybody to define that. If you can find that for yourself early on. And success looks different everywhere, right?
00:40:32
Speaker
What it looks like in your program is going to be different than your neighbors, which is going to be different than somebody else's in a different state. Define that for yourself and create that with your own students in your own school community.
00:40:47
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Katie, what about you? I think people are going to have judgments about you and it has nothing to do with you. um And the people who are good at the things that you're trying to do won't judge you for trying or failing.
00:41:03
Speaker
They'll respect you for the effort. So the outcome relevant, I think. If I could tell my younger self, like, give yourself grace, don't listen to the haters and just keep showing up for yourself, keep showing up for yourself despite the opinions of people who make those judgments because they'll never be in your shoes.
00:41:22
Speaker
And Holly? i think the biggest thing that I would tell my younger self is to be myself. Myself is not necessarily everyone's cup of tea, but it's who I am.
00:41:38
Speaker
And, know, I hate that I had to get to the age that I am before I'm like, you know what, this, what you see is what you get. You can take it or leave it because I definitely spent a lot of time trying to reinvent myself and just, yeah, it doesn't go well for you or for anybody else.
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah. All right, everyone. Well, you need to be very excited because Nicole and Whitney will be back with the incredible Courtney Allison Mills. And then we will do our gush and goes and our what are we doing right after this commercial break.
00:42:23
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:42:52
Speaker
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00:43:04
Speaker
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00:43:16
Speaker
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00:43:29
Speaker
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00:43:44
Speaker
Welcome back to On a Water Break. We just heard from Alicia and an incredible all-female panel celebrating Women's History Month. Now we're keeping the momentum going and we have another amazing guest. But first, I'm back on the sidelines with my girl, Whitney. We haven't been on this thing a hot minute together. It's been a while, yeah.
00:44:03
Speaker
Yeah. How are you doing? I'm pretty good. How are you? Good. I know you've got all the things going with the dragons and whatnot. All the things. I gave you that little trinket, remember? yeah Look at mine.
00:44:16
Speaker
Oh, it's the same, but bigger. Yeah. Yes. Cause I put a lot more stuff in. I just dumped it all out, but I thought the mother of dragons needed something of dragons too. Thank you. I appreciate it so much.
00:44:28
Speaker
You're welcome. So right now we have another extraordinary woman on Whitney. When we asked about talking with other women about women's history month, and tell us why you chose our next guest.
00:44:42
Speaker
ah Courtney has been a really important figure in my my life and my color guard career. and She marched crown before me. always knew who she was. she actually officiated mine and Heather's like real wedding when really got married.
00:45:00
Speaker
And she's been in my life for a long time. And I just think she's awesome. So she's one of the first, like, strong females that I think of in the marching arts.
00:45:11
Speaker
Absolutely. I agree with you. 2000%. So
00:45:19
Speaker
so right now, please welcome to the podcast, Courtney Allison Mills. Hi, Courtney. Hello. Hi.
00:45:27
Speaker
Amazing to see both of your faces today. ah that both of you kind of, Nicole and Whitney, both round rockers. But yeah, I'm so pumped to be here. When Whitney reached out, I was like, absolutely, let's go.
00:45:43
Speaker
Perfect. All right. So this is how this is how we start the Kiki. The game that we play first is the 32 count life story. So what will happen is we'll give you 32 counts on the Met. We'll give you eight and then you're in and you have to fit your whole entire life story in there.
00:46:00
Speaker
Yes, I'm building it up to more than it is, but it's always fun to watch the person do it. So ready? All right, here we go. And now we go. ha i went to Seminole High School. I went ahead and did color guard art all through high school.
00:46:15
Speaker
And then i marched Carolina crown for four years. I did the company, won two gold medals, won independent A and independent open. Then I went to teach like all the drum corps.
00:46:25
Speaker
but I lived in Australia for a while. And then I was like, oh my God, I got to go back and get my dance degree. And so then I went and got my bachelor's in dance at 30. Then I started, oh my God, this is so stressful.
00:46:37
Speaker
I feel like literally I'm on like Jeopardy or something. After that, I taught, I essentially taught for 10 years in the public school system. I'm a dance teacher. and during that time I was like, why not get my master's? So I got my master's in performance psychology.
00:46:52
Speaker
And now I'm an instructional coach for high school dance teachers here in Texas. um And then there's like a bajillion other things that I have already gone through and that like 32 counts literally is just not enough.
00:47:04
Speaker
You did good. You still did good. I first was going to like, I literally, and again, neurodivergent female here. i legit was like trying to like, how can I make this backbeat go with what I'm saying?
00:47:18
Speaker
Like, that's what like threw me off. I'm like, I marched crown and then seminal. Like, was like legit, like,
00:47:32
Speaker
Courtney, you've talked about self-awareness as a foundational skill for performers. How do you help students develop that? So in the midst of 2020, when we were all locked down, I decided, again, just why not do a little more school? So I got a specialization certification from the University of Colorado Boulder in social emotional learning.
00:47:53
Speaker
And it's a big buzzword in schools right now. And it has been people are like SEO. But what social emotional learning is, is really all the stuff that we learned on Sesame Street. And so that under, I mean, it really is.
00:48:05
Speaker
um But understanding that and recognizing that that awareness of presence and how our presence affects everyone else. I actually tell this story because it kind of helps people recognize it.
00:48:19
Speaker
It's like ah people that don't use their blinker. So if you don't use your blinker, you're not allowing everyone else to know what your next move is going to be. Right. So that blinker is not there for you.
00:48:33
Speaker
That blinker is for every single other person on the road so they can navigate around your existence. And so for me, that is one of the first things I talk about anytime we're talking about that awareness of self.
00:48:46
Speaker
and our own social awareness um and how we exist in the world. Because truly, if you don't tell someone something, they cannot help you and they don't know what direction you're going. So always use always use your blinker. Everybody gets mad when somebody just slows down and doesn't use their blinker.
00:49:03
Speaker
To me, I'm like this, you're not a bad person. You just have absolutely terrible self-awareness because how you show up in the world makes it, it makes somebody else's day or it breaks somebody else's day. So your existence affects everybody, everybody else.
00:49:17
Speaker
I love that. um Where did your love for this and interest for this come from? uh, being a weird 14 year old adolescent, like totally undiagnosed neurodivergent color guard kid whose parents were not super supportive. They really wanted, I was in band first. They wanted me to continue in the band realm.
00:49:39
Speaker
And I just couldn't because I needed to perform. And so I feel like when I got into the teaching idea, i just, I saw myself. I saw myself in all of these other kids. And I was like, oh my God, like, I know where you're at. I know I can help you through this.
00:49:55
Speaker
So I can't really say that. I think color guard was the catalyst, but recognizing how vulnerable dance is and recognizing how vulnerable any visual activity is. It's not like a chorus person could be like,
00:50:08
Speaker
And they're just mailing it in. But if you're a visual artist, if you are a color guard or dancer, like you can't mail it in, you have to be vulnerable. And so getting to that vulnerable space with specifically adolescent kids at this point who rely on their entire existence in social media, I feel like my calling has just started growing and growing and growing over the years because of that space I was when I was younger. And that's been essentially like That's been my passion is just really making sure everyone feels like they belong. And this is a space for everyone.
00:50:42
Speaker
Courtney, I feel like I'm learning so much from you right now. And I've known you for years. And yeah, you know, speaking, I mean, another Noro Spicy female right here, too.
00:50:56
Speaker
So like when you said that, I was like, no wonder we kind of clicked right away. But understandable. So you were on the Femme Forte podcast and you were talking about safe spaces for neurodivergent students.
00:51:07
Speaker
I just want to ask, do you think that being a female has helped you understand these spaces? And obviously being neurodiverse helped you understand these spaces even more. So if you could tell me about that. I don't necessarily know if being a female has helped me. I feel like because my brain operates so differently, I've had to adjust and make sure that people around me know because i mean,
00:51:31
Speaker
People that have been taught by me, ah most recently I was down in Hernando, ah Mississippi, working with those kids. And they know that I'll say something and it's like a random story and it goes this way and this way and this way.
00:51:43
Speaker
But they know what I'm talking about. Like they know how it relates and they know all of those things. So I think that it helps me go into a space and it allows me to revert back to that weird 15 year old, 14 year old.
00:51:56
Speaker
And I know how to talk to them. And I know where they're at. And I kind of feel like there's this theory that like, if something in your life happens, like a traumatic incident, or just a really hard time in your life, that you're always stuck at that age.
00:52:10
Speaker
And I feel like I'm always stuck in this 15 year old mindset of, of just trying to like, make my way around, but understanding kids in a way that I know the majority of adults don't.
00:52:23
Speaker
So being, I feel like being neurodivergent has definitely helped me in those spaces, but specifically in color guard, because most of our constituents, most of our performers are female.
00:52:34
Speaker
I do feel like that. I have that ability to walk and be like, I know where you're at. i know where you're at. And, um, I'm going to talk a little bit more about that later for one of the questions you're going to ask. Cause I already know I've already, I've been working on something in my head.
00:52:49
Speaker
So yeah, so I do feel like yes and no, it helps in different spaces. It helps in different ways. Okay. Now, I do want to probably rephrase this in another way that I actually have it. But have you ever had a moment where embracing neuro spiciness has led to like a huge breakthrough with a group, or, you know, with you to them or them to you to help them understand a little bit more?
00:53:15
Speaker
I think that it's not so much about that breaking through to them. think it's more about breaking through to myself. I feel like once I'm able to authentically and like, once I'm able to be myself and once I was, i wasn't diagnosed until way later in life, but once I was, I had to actually like take a minute and cry and grieve and recognize that that 14 year old girl had some issues that nobody was dealing with, including me. I was trying to be normal. I was masking.
00:53:44
Speaker
But I think that whenever I'm in front of a group, I'm almost empowered more to be more of myself because of that past relationship with not being diagnosed, with not quite feeling like I belong anywhere.
00:54:00
Speaker
That's helped me go into a space and be able to put everybody's minds at ease. And I think that does help them create a safe space. because I'm so bizarre.
00:54:10
Speaker
Like I'm so weird in how I teach and my philosophies are totally like, People are like, where did you come up with that? Like somebody asked me two weeks ago, the director was like, how did you get to that place? And I'm like, does you want me to explain my brain?
00:54:23
Speaker
Like I'm still working on that. Like I have no idea, but that's just where it went. So i think that in most spaces, it helps me be the most me, which then again, kind of helps them be the most them.
00:54:37
Speaker
And to me, that is the ultimate safe space is when you're able to be in a room of teenagers who are still trying to figure it out. but they see an adult who maybe doesn't necessarily act like an adult.
00:54:49
Speaker
I think that that's probably. That's the biggest breakthrough. Yeah. So when I move with them and I'm super weird and I do something crazy, they're like that lady's nuts. And I'm like, I'm not, I fully embrace that.
00:55:00
Speaker
I fully embrace that. But I'm also saying like, here I am. I'm an older and older woman that I'm sitting here and I'm in front of you and I'm going to be just as weird as I can be because I know all of you crazy.
00:55:13
Speaker
equally as weird as me. And I want you to out weird me. It's not going to happen, but I want you to at least try. Yeah, I feel, do feel like when kids understand and they like, oh, she's got, you know what I mean? Like anytime that ever stood in front of any of the kids at the academy and I just let them know, hey, you guys just bear with me. I'm, i have ADHD.
00:55:35
Speaker
and So my brain works a little differently. And like, there's little light bulbs that go off on some kids' faces. And it's just like, do we see each other right now? We do. Totally. And i think that that's such an underrated thing in our activity.
00:55:49
Speaker
is the adult, and I'm going to do this and not to be rude, and the adult that's in front of the kids, I think that they forget. I think that they forget what it's like to be in that spot and to have another adult look at you and give you feedback, which is usually like, you're laying on count eight.
00:56:13
Speaker
But I do think that there's something to be said for reverting a little bit into that you know, who you were and who you continue to be. ah Part of my process with a lot of the groups I teach is one of the first things I do is just weird improvisation.
00:56:30
Speaker
And the improvisation is not based on dance. It's just literally like, can you be a T-Rex going across the space? Does a T-Rex fall to the ground? How do they get back up? Like just random stuff like that.
00:56:42
Speaker
And the goal for that is not for them to actually prepare themselves to be a T-Rex in their show. Their goal, the goal there is to actually get them to revert to a childlike space because when they were children, there was no judgment and there was none of that. Like, Oh my God, somebody is looking at me.
00:57:02
Speaker
In fact, it was the exact opposite. They were on the playground. They were doing all kinds of craziness and they didn't care. And when I start improvisation, that's exactly what I want to start with. I want to get them back to that five-year-old version of themselves that's like staring off and like looking at butterflies and I'm a T-Rex.
00:57:21
Speaker
Like, because it's so cool to see them back there, then they start to remember. And that's when you can get them in that space of releasing all of the judgments from around them. let's break love it Courtney, you've worked with so many performers. What's one leadership lesson you always try and pass down?
00:57:44
Speaker
For me, it's always modeling. It's modeling how you want to be treated by how you treat others, ah how so you carry yourselves, how you approach others,
00:57:58
Speaker
teaching a flag phrase. I think that that or any weapon phrase from a choreography standpoint, dance phrase, whatever, if you teach it in a way that's not performative, they're gonna learn it in a way that's not performative.
00:58:10
Speaker
So if you just give them the counts, it's not your name. Why aren't you performing in it? Well, you're not modeling exactly how you want them to do it. And just going through this lifetime and learning as much as I can about the psychology of adolescence Not they're not watching you to actually see the movement.
00:58:31
Speaker
They're watching you to mimic the shape that you make. And so when you're teaching and you just do something, maybe 75, 80 percent, they're mimicking that shape. And so when they mimic the shape, they're never, ever, ever going to fully do that movement full out because you are not.
00:58:49
Speaker
And so for me, that is what I look for in leadership is are you able to at any given point and always do these things full out? Are you able to hold yourself accountable in a way that you would hold someone else accountable?
00:59:04
Speaker
Because leadership is not about somebody doing this. Leadership is about the person in the back that's like pushing all of the people forward saying, no, no, no, you first. You need to go.
00:59:15
Speaker
I'm watching out for you and I want to make sure you're good and I'm going to hold it up back here. And then once we get to where we're going to be, we're all going to be at the same level in terms of performance, because I'm going to be, you know, bringing up the rear here and making sure everybody's safe.
00:59:30
Speaker
That's awesome. That's such a good way to look at it too. And to let other people, you know, I guess you could say interpret in, in whatever way they need to. I am going to change the questions a little bit.
00:59:44
Speaker
Perfect. Even though I love hearing about your philosophy and the way you think, um and I just feel so much more comfortable knowing that you're a neuro-spicy person because I don't really talk about that that much. I mean, masking, of course, you know, and masking, code switching, i have to do both. All the things, yeah. All the things.
01:00:00
Speaker
I heard that you are an Ugly Betty fan. watch Ugly Betty in this household. Okay. ah You're also a plant mama. But my biggest thing that I saw that you like to do is...
01:00:13
Speaker
You're a true crime fan. Oh my God. Don't even get me started. guys don't even know. Like it's such a problem. It's such a problem. It's what I do. Once I get, when I'm, when I'm judging, once I get to the hotel, I'm like, where is 48 hours?
01:00:28
Speaker
The first 48. Don't even get me started. Don't even get me started. Yeah. It puts me in a really, I don't know. It's my calm, safe place. But anyway, I'm,
01:00:39
Speaker
I want to know what your favorite true crime, I guess you could say a show a podcast, whatever is to listen to watch. Okay. So drive, I'm an instructional coach here in Houston. I don't live in Houston. So i do drive here quite a bit. And so I listened to crime junkie.
01:00:55
Speaker
um It's a podcast, big fan of that. I listened to kind of all the audio check, but I will tell you that they introduced me to my new fascination with one of the lesser known serial killers.
01:01:08
Speaker
that I am absolutely obsessed with. And his name is Israel Keyes. um Okay. You know, I just listened to a podcast on him this morning. Like literally this morning.
01:01:22
Speaker
He, he's not very known, but he is probably one of the most prolific. They don't know how many people ah he has unalived. But the only reason he got caught and it was in Texas and was actually right up the road here in. um Yeah.
01:01:40
Speaker
The only reason is because but everything overtook him and he was young. He had a kid.
01:01:47
Speaker
And so at this point, I think they were saying there's like 11 connected to him. And long story short, the FBI really wanted him to talk. And the reason you guys don't know about him is because He told the FBI, I don't want to talk because I don't want my kid find out all of these things.
01:02:08
Speaker
so I'm obsessed with him and all of his interviews are super creepy because he's, I mean, he is the quintessential psychopath um and just zero remorse. What podcast is this, by the way? It's not a podcast. Well, I found it on, uh, on crime junkie. they can send up okay They actually have a couple of documentaries. They just came out with one wild crime. Uh, you can look that up on, I believe Hulu or Netflix.
01:02:33
Speaker
But Wild Prime is one. And then he actually has an entire documentary dedicated just to him. Because it's the randomness and the thoughtfulness of all of it. I hate to say thoughtfulness, but man, he was good.
01:02:48
Speaker
good. You really are in it. I love I am a psychology person. And for him to think of all of these things and how to not get caught, just fascinating. Like he would take the body and bury it in a different state.
01:03:05
Speaker
we will neff we will definitely be in contact and like hey listen to this listen to this gate all over it let's go okay all right courtney what part of the marching arts are you this isn't meant literally we just want a creative personality driven answer that represents you for example i'm the percussion feature i'm not the percussion feature fierce abrupt intense and ready to break chops and I'm the band parent in the stands cheering for everybody with the bandaid kit and ready for the next injury.
01:03:37
Speaker
So what part of the band are you? I feel like I am the soloist that's throwing a seven on the very last count of the show. I feel like I am reliable.
01:03:50
Speaker
feel like I'm consistent with my presence and my message. I feel like whether or not I catch it or not, you're always going to make sure you watch me. ah And I feel like I can give the expressiveness that's going to take you on a journey that nobody else can.
01:04:07
Speaker
I'd give you the solo. I'd give you the solo. I'm not going to lie. there were The majority of the Winter Guard shows that I marched, I rarely did the flag feature because I was a soloist.
01:04:18
Speaker
So it was, I know, I know. I'm not going to lie. i really love that part. But it just ended up that way. and i don't You'll have to ask Adam Sage about that one. I don't know. Oh man, I love the flag feature. I'd be bummed.
01:04:30
Speaker
no I'm not gonna lie. In his flag feature, I was not bummed. I didn't need my wrist doing this more times than it needed to. I've spun the Adam's stage flag feature before. Yes, I know. good
01:04:45
Speaker
Okay. We need to go into our next section, which is called, What Are We Doing? What are we doing?
01:05:01
Speaker
what are we doing dancing right now but so Courtney when we are talking about doing what are we doing so you tell me about something that in the marching arts seat like basically what are we doing doing this or what are we doing not doing this so basically a little tongue-in-cheek you know what grinds my gears so Courtney what are we doing i was actually gonna say what grinds my gears I am, my biggest thing right now, so first of all, I am applying right now to several PhD programs because I want to study essentially how ah new movers, new learners learn how to move their body.
01:05:38
Speaker
Aside from that, it has kind of led me down this path of recognizing that the majority of our color guard directors are male and the majority of our color guard participants are female.
01:05:51
Speaker
And what I have been really interested is viewing the lens of why lot of us get into teaching color guard and what it goes into is that we're not really interested in teaching color guard.
01:06:06
Speaker
We're interested in designing and we want people to see our product. So the education of how we're working with students has become secondary when we're younger, because we feel like I am gonna create this message and this design and my choreography And I feel like as we get older, we sense that, okay, like I can't do exactly what I want to do because these kids can't do what I am asking them to do.
01:06:35
Speaker
So for me, looking at the totality of the activity, our younger directors, our younger instructors are in this because and they really just want to design and they want to show their art.
01:06:46
Speaker
And I applaud that. I think that that's fantastic. However, I do feel like the reason we don't see more females is because there's not an education push.
01:06:57
Speaker
There's not this component saying, do you want to be an educator? and it's it's all about, hey, can you come in here and teach these kids? Well, anybody can go in and teach kids, but are you teaching them in a healthy way?
01:07:09
Speaker
Are you making sure that when they go home at night, they're not thinking about the fact that you yelled at them and told them that they were a horrible person because they didn't get to count four on time? And I think that there's something to be said for making sure that our younger instructors, our younger educators are looking at themselves in that light, in that seriousness.
01:07:30
Speaker
I don't think that they do because from the higher ups, we're not getting that seriousness. We're getting a lot of push for design. We're getting a lot of push for technique. We're getting a lot of push for, you know, all these other things. But we're not getting this push for pedagogy and philosophy on how you approach even preparing your kids for a show.
01:07:49
Speaker
So, Whitney, it's in the TCGC circuit. Nicole, I know that you were as well. um And ah Joey Powell and I started this in 2017. And it's the EDU experience where we bring in three clinicians and the clinicians, the groups can essentially choose, oh, they choose to do the EDU experience. They don't know who their clinician is going to be, but we follow them through their warmup, through body,
01:08:13
Speaker
through equipment, through transit, on the floor, watch the show off the floor. And then we talk not about the show. I mean, I'll give notes on the show. I really want to talk about what they're doing in warmup.
01:08:25
Speaker
um A lot of times here in Texas, and I just got back from Atlanta, Sapa has now picked it up, which has been great. But a lot of times, like I go into body warmup and they're doing a full show run without equipment.
01:08:36
Speaker
And for me, that's like doing a marathon before you're doing a marathon. Like at what point are we using our body warmups to actually utilize, not even thinking about equipment. And I do use the neurodivergent thing. I can't do air equipment from a sensory perspective.
01:08:53
Speaker
I have to have the thing in my hand. And if I don't have it in my hand, I'm freaking out because, oh my God, my hand, wrong oh my God, I have to like, I'm literally wanting it to be perfect. And I know everyone's like, oh, but it's for your body.
01:09:06
Speaker
That is not translating. Right. There is no translation from going body to going, I'm going to air flag, or I'm going to air rifle this. There is no translation that goes from that into equipment, into those bodies, because every single time I've seen it, it's like,
01:09:22
Speaker
You just spent all of this time that you could be working, maybe getting their brains right in a warmup that you do every time or going through a movement section of the show. Do you have dancers in your show? Can you go through this section with these dancers?
01:09:35
Speaker
But really, truly making sure they are settled and going into that equipment warmup. And so when they go into that equipment warmup, again, see the full run. Why are you doing a marathon before you're doing a marathon?
01:09:46
Speaker
Always begin your warmup with an ensemble moment. And I always say, start with your flag feature. it gets their eyes working and it gets them able to start connecting with their other performers.
01:09:59
Speaker
Then break apart, do your equipment. Don't do staging. Just make sure you're focusing in. Create a goal at the beginning of the week. Make sure the kids know what the goal is. This week, I want to make sure we get our partnering correct.
01:10:11
Speaker
Hit your flag feature and warm up. Okay, guys, we're going to work on that goal for the week so they know what's coming. So they don't walk into warmup and be going, and I wonder what we're going to do today. Because all of that brain space that they're using to question what they're doing is taking away from everything you've worked on during that week.
01:10:28
Speaker
And it's taking away from the preparation and the anxiety they're feeling walking on the floor. So I don't think that people really give enough thought into that.
01:10:40
Speaker
And for me, that's huge because you've prepared them all week for this, but then you walk into a warm up and there's no thought or preparation into that. I love that thought process of using body warm up, but basically mind and body warm up.
01:10:56
Speaker
that you know mean That's the beginning of it. That's where we start our warm up. So you have to use that space. It's not just about the physical presence. It's about the somatic experience, the mind-body connection and getting them really in tune with where they're at in that moment and getting them prepared for what they're about to do.
01:11:17
Speaker
So that's a huge push from me um just because as an educator, as a certified educator in Texas and in Colorado, take those things seriously because again, I'm there because I want the kids to succeed.
01:11:30
Speaker
And like design schmizine, I'm not going to allow five people in the stands to dictate, you know, the quality of what I'm doing or the design process that I felt was necessary.
01:11:42
Speaker
I want those kids to walk away and say, did I do the best that I could? Was I set up to do the best that I could? And those are the things that are important to me because the kids ultimately, that's our reason for being. If you want to be an artist, go be an artist.
01:11:58
Speaker
But if you want to be a performing artist that teaches performing kids, you have to understand how to do that. It's not as much as just saying you're late on count eight.
01:12:11
Speaker
Courtney. Gosh. Great job, everyone. Set your equipment down. Touch and go.
01:12:19
Speaker
Sorry. was just ruminating. I've never really like thought about the body run thing like that because I i am a body run through person.
01:12:31
Speaker
That's me. And now I'm questioning all of that. But here's the thing, Whitney. Nobody teaches you these things. There is not any sort of education material that talks about pedagogy and the psychological reason we do things.
01:12:46
Speaker
And a lot of us do things because that's how we were taught. And that's not necessarily either the correct way or the most like conducive to the performer's success way. And that person probably was the way they were taught.
01:13:03
Speaker
And we have to start thinking about how we prepare our students and not the way we were taught because these kids are different than we were. That may have worked back in the day. I can tell you the air equipment thing never worked for me because again, boom, boom, boom, sensory.
01:13:18
Speaker
I had to have it in my hands in order to truly understand the movement that went with it. If I was just doing the movement that never translated to that equipment, because again, that sensory process had to be working in conjunction with that.
01:13:33
Speaker
It's beautiful. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thanks. I just want everybody to be educated. Well, I think you're helping. Thank you. So gush and go.
01:13:44
Speaker
This is your moment to gush about anything you want. It can be about the marching arts, a project you're working on, or just something cool happening in your life. So what do you have that's exciting right now?
01:13:56
Speaker
This is going to be so weird. And I, again, I'm super weird person, but a golf, I want to talk about golf. I watch golf. I love golf. And what a lot of people don't know about golf is that golfers are not paid on Thursday and Friday. So a golf tournament is four days.
01:14:13
Speaker
Thursday, Friday is qualifying. And then you have Saturday, Sunday or the actual tournament. If you don't qualify for Saturday and Sunday, you've just spent all this money to go to a golf tournament and not win anything. You essentially lost money.
01:14:25
Speaker
Now, during those four days, they placed the hole in different parts of the putting greens. So, and they also moved the tee box where you tee off from.
01:14:36
Speaker
So each time the golfer goes to that hole, to that tee, it's a different course. So each time it's different. Now, I watched golf for a really long time before I started playing. was little intimidated to go and play.
01:14:50
Speaker
ah But when I started playing, I was brought back to the first time I learned how to spin a saber. Because this apparatus in my hand has a weight at the end of it,
01:15:00
Speaker
I understand pathway. I understand weight shift. I understand hand-eye coordination. And I under understand how to be consistent within my own body. i am able to hit the golf ball in a way that is probably a little quicker and more conducive to somebody that's been playing for a while. I've been playing since May.
01:15:21
Speaker
And I have gotten my first par. I have actually gotten my first birdie, which basically means par is if the hole is a certain... ah you have to get the strokes in a certain amount. So if the hole is a par three, you have to get it into the hole three hits, right?
01:15:37
Speaker
If it's a birdie, I would get it in two hits, which would be a minus one. So you want your score to be lower. You don't want it to be plus. But I think as an older woman who has found myself a little bit like I'm using my brain in a billion different ways, I wanted to combine that with physicality and a new hobby.
01:15:55
Speaker
And so this to me has been the closest thing to color guard that I have actually found that I enjoy. It's outside. I don't have to be out in the blazing in the middle of the day. I can go in the morning.
01:16:08
Speaker
I can go in the afternoon. I can also just go to the driving range to hit balls, to work on. or You can go to top golf. I can go to Topgolf and have an adult beverage. Like all of those things, I think for me has given me an outlet.
01:16:21
Speaker
And while I don't know how creative it is, it's super social. It's really fun to put my own past understanding of pathway angles and velocity and so speed and effort change and dynamic quality. I can put all of those things into my golf game.
01:16:41
Speaker
And I think that that's such a cool comparison. And as younger people, when you start to get towards the point in the career that I'm in right now, where I'm consulting, doing a lot of choreography still, I feel like it's really cool to have something on the outside that I can do, but still is familiar in a way that a lot of other, most people on the golf course just don't understand.
01:17:06
Speaker
i want to ask,
01:17:10
Speaker
Do you have like a cute set of golf clubs? Oh my God. Don't even get me started because now my thing is golf attire. Never in my life have I ever worn a skort until now. And I have so many golf skorts and I have so many cute outfits and my bag is this burgundy bag with white polka dots and I have all of the things and I never, ever, ever thought that I would be like that.
01:17:35
Speaker
But you need to post a picture or it's not true. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed with my golf wear. In fact, my sister got me a bunch of gift cards for Christmas. She was like, I hope you get so many scores. I'm like, just watch out.
01:17:49
Speaker
Watch out for my golf sport and my golf glove. Hey, it's called gush and go, not gushing stay. Let's go. I'm sorry. oh ah Her sound bites are coming for Courtney. It's fine. You're good.
01:18:07
Speaker
Courtney, loved having you on today. I just want to ask one more question is where can the people find you um or follow you on socials?
Courtney's Upcoming Lectures
01:18:14
Speaker
Okay. So I am no longer on Facebook. um That's a bit too much for me.
01:18:19
Speaker
And I used to actually be on Facebook just for work, but you can find me on Instagram at C A Mills underscore, and then C R the number eight and then ti t I V e So C A Mills creative.
01:18:34
Speaker
And on Blue Sky, I think it's Love Cam, L-O-V ah Cam, which Courtney Alpha Mills Cam is actually what was on my stopper ah when I marched Crown. And so everybody called me Cam, which is really funny.
01:18:48
Speaker
umma And then my website is camillscreative.com and that's regular creative. And my contact information is there. um All of my stuff with ah broadcasting for box five and the breakdown camp is there.
01:19:02
Speaker
Yeah, I am. I have actually been getting a lot of instructional coaching stuff for color guard educators at this point, because I think band directors are starting to find the need to have somebody come in because they want their programs to be better. And so that's been super cool in my world as well.
01:19:18
Speaker
So what's the next big thing you're doing? um I am preparing couple different lectures. One, um I am both on the leadership and the director's track summer symposium for Bands of America.
01:19:30
Speaker
I'm doing their summer symposia or their Bands of America Band Camp. I'm also, I just got the word that I'm going to be presenting at USA Gymnastics National Congress in August in New Orleans.
01:19:42
Speaker
And I will be coaching wellness means coach wellness. ah And I have been applying for PhDs. So I am definitely looking to continue my own education and philosophy within specifically dance training for new people. And then like looking at how the social media effect ah really works with and hinders our ability to teach kids in person because they don't know how to be in person because they have two personas.
01:20:11
Speaker
So all of those things and a billion other things because why not? Because that's what I do. I completely understand. Courtney, well, I just want to say thank you again so much for joining us today. It's been incredible, enlightening, and I feel like I literally know more about you and relate you a little bit more.
01:20:31
Speaker
Yeah, and no, thank you guys. This has been awesome. And I always love being a guest and specifically for you guys, anything you need, I'm here. Awesome. Well, we love hearing about your journey, your insights and all of your passion for movement education.
01:20:46
Speaker
Now don't go anywhere because Alicia and all her female panel are back with more gush and goes, what are we doing? And a brand new segment, the 60 second tech block with Ashley. So maybe we can get some twirling knowledge.
01:21:00
Speaker
Who knows? Let's go for
Advertisements and Personal Journeys
01:21:01
Speaker
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01:21:11
Speaker
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01:21:33
Speaker
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01:21:45
Speaker
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01:21:59
Speaker
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01:22:19
Speaker
Okay, everyone, we are back. Thank you. Oh my gosh, so much, Nicole and Whitney for that awesome conversation with Courtney. She is a gem in the activity. Excuse me, love to have her on.
01:22:31
Speaker
Okay, everyone, it's time for our 60 second tech block. This is our newer segment where one of our hosts or guest clinicians is put on the spot to deliver a nonstop 60 second tech session on topic that needs some serious attention after that last run through. We're not gonna talk about it.
01:22:49
Speaker
um Our special tech this week has come prepared with three topics that they can talk about for a full 60 seconds straight. No hesitation, no pauses, just pure technical gold. ah This week, let's see, I think I want to throw it on to Ashley.
01:23:03
Speaker
Ashley, I know that your best topics are tossing your baton in stadium lights or proper technique for more than one turn under equipment.
01:23:15
Speaker
Or what it's like to go from twirler to guard to drill rider. So, everybody, what topic do we think Ashley should do? We can vote, we can go around, or you can just jump in. I'm scared.
01:23:27
Speaker
I just have to put that out there. I want to hear about this journey from twirler to guard to drill rider. i agree with that. Yeah, I twirled baton actually first grade through 12th grade, not competitively at all. It was like recital baton, not competition in any sort of way. So I'm extremely intrigued how you went from twirler to drill writer because that's also something I want to be doing is drill writing.
01:23:53
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. And I totally agree. Ashley, tell us how you made those transitions. I will say I did the 60 second tech block last week and I nailed it at right at like 58 seconds. So pressure's for you.
01:24:06
Speaker
but Katie, we'll pull up a 60 second timer on your phone and let's time Ashley while she does this. Absolutely. right, here we go. And 60 second tech block.
01:24:23
Speaker
te like probably in three two All right. So I started as a twirler. My parents had a baton drum corps color guard group.
01:24:36
Speaker
That's how my twirling career started. Ended up going to actually like the best team in the world. They're two hours away, one way. So I know that commute, Holly.
01:24:46
Speaker
And then after I graduated high school, twirled at University of Delaware, where also did indoor guard. I did guard in high school, but I was forced to do it because I wanted to twirl with the marching band.
01:25:00
Speaker
But my band director said, no, no twirler, sorry. So I was going to go to a different school. Ended up being forced to color guard. Ended up loving it, obviously. 15 seconds.
01:25:13
Speaker
15. Oh, 10. I'm not going to finish this in 60. But guard, I did indoor guard with University of Delaware, did AMP for a year.
01:25:25
Speaker
and and I go over? Yeah. I need to make it to the drill writer.
01:25:37
Speaker
What can say? I got to hear it though, Ashley. I want to know. how did you get there? So after i was done performing, I started teaching high school.
01:25:48
Speaker
The high school that I was with, or still with actually teaching, the band director didn't really know how to write drill. He's more like a music person, not so visual and drill.
01:26:02
Speaker
So kept hiring people to write drill and the color guard drill was just garbage. I'm going to say it cause I'm not saying the high school, not in this podcast. Not episode.
01:26:13
Speaker
But I was just like, I'm just going to rewrite the drill. So I kept rewriting the color guard drill after we paid someone to do it. Anyway. And then I was like, you know what?
01:26:26
Speaker
I'm just going to do everything. I'm just going to write, write all the drill. So that's what I did. I didn't take like class or workshop or anything for PiWare, just trial and error.
01:26:40
Speaker
It's worked out so far so good. So that's trial by fire. and Most of us, Laura. Yeah. but No drill writing class with Heidi Sarver Delaware?
01:26:53
Speaker
I was going to. then So my graduation year from college was 2020. Enough said. And I ended up dropping the class before it even started.
01:27:04
Speaker
And instead, I had to take Spanish medieval literature to finish my Spanish minor. Oh, because that's totally what you wanted to take. Yep. Yeah. A lot in your drill writing, don't you?
01:27:16
Speaker
I just throw out there that people doing drill writing now, like so when I was in college, the first version of Piware came out, if that tells you anything.
Traditions and Financial Transparency in Marching Arts
01:27:27
Speaker
I have never been so frustrated with a computer program in my life and that completely turned me off to ever wanting to write my own drill. not intuitive at all. No, not all. I'm going to come back to this because it sounds like a really good thing to use in our next segment. um What are we doing?
01:27:46
Speaker
What are we doing?
01:27:55
Speaker
What are we doing? This is the part of the show where we get to let loose just a little bit or maybe lot. This is your chance to rant about anything in the marching arts that just doesn't make sense. Maybe it's tradition that needs to go.
01:28:09
Speaker
Maybe it's a habit that performers can't seem to break when it's something that makes you think, why are we even doing this? Or why haven't we started doing this yet? Whatever it is, this is your moment to call it out and get it off your chest.
01:28:21
Speaker
Let's see.
01:28:26
Speaker
ah I thought about this when we started the 60 second tech block of the first topic about releasing under stadium lights. just releasing and catching in general equipment.
01:28:41
Speaker
What are we doing not looking at the equipment when it goes into our hand? I can't tell you how many times I've i've told my my students,
01:28:54
Speaker
like Right on a score sheet for twirling. I'm like, can you just look at it when it goes into your hand? Because otherwise you're you're not going to catch it. If you're looking up, it's it's going to pass your hand. it's going to fall right onto the ground.
01:29:06
Speaker
It sounds so silly, but it works.
01:29:13
Speaker
and You just made me think, you know, in Color Guard, the ah late look after we release that's really popular. I would be so amazed. You know someone in world class is going to do it eventually where they are not looking and they catch, like, has that been done? Yeah. I need to see it.
01:29:29
Speaker
I don't know about in Color Guard. There's, like... blind catches twirling. Like you can catch it like this way. So you're not technically looking at it.
01:29:39
Speaker
It's like behind your head. Those are so scary. You like, you like spot it until the last second. And then technically you're not looking at it, but yeah, it's right in front of you. Come on.
01:29:50
Speaker
Look at it. holie Are you ready? Do you have your, I have to only have one though. You can text me one. I could use it. I don't have one this week.
01:30:03
Speaker
This is such a pet peeve of mine. What are we still doing? And I think it's more in the South than in other places, but why are core style bands still using maces in high school? Thank you, Jenna.
01:30:18
Speaker
no I'm actually a very proud person that spins mace. I won a DCA or an I&E medal for spinning mace in 2023. I convinced my high school band days to let me spin mace my senior year, probably because I was bugging them so much.
01:30:35
Speaker
I still love mace. We don't know about We don't need a- it's cute! Thank you, Cecilia! It's fair that might not be needed, but I do think it's a nice thing to have- And high school kids- high school kids want to do a fun salute with them. It takes 20 frickin' minutes at the start of your show to get through the salute, and then they drop it. No!
01:30:54
Speaker
Just give me eight counts and let's go get on the podium. salute- my salute ah with the mace- we put- so I had a co-drum major that year that didn't spin mace, so we put down the mace for the salute. So I guess that's your solution for that.
01:31:06
Speaker
Nope, just get rid of them. We don't need those. This is awesome. So Jenna, you have a chance to get back at Holly. but I had a different one. I will respect anyone that says that it's not for that. It's not for every single program. I'm not going to, of course, force that on any program that doesn't want it. I'm an added fan of it, but.
01:31:26
Speaker
However, my what are we doing is more directed towards the Drum Corps International specific world. And it's something that I didn't understand my first two years and still don't truly understand. But what are we doing not truthfully showing the financials of everything for ah where tuition is going?
01:31:45
Speaker
like something thank you and it might not be expected but i guess going into drum corps i was expecting not every single thing to be laid out but at least maybe like a pie chart or something this percentage of just for simplicity because all all age tuition is a little cheaper than world class or open class so let's just go with a thousand dollars if tuition was a thousand dollars How much of that percentage of everyone in the core, let's say we're a 60-person core, is going towards food? How much of all that percentage is going towards ah transportation and equipment and odds and ends that are needed every day within a core?
01:32:26
Speaker
Being too much in the blind spot of it is too stressful for me. I want to know my money is going towards my education as a performer than just... poofing into the clouds and being sucked into the money machine that is the world.
01:32:41
Speaker
So what are we doing? Yeah. Kind of like a robbery. It's like, give me the money and everything will be fine. yeah ah Future episode idea too. We're going to write that down because I think the activity would be funded much better by its alumni if money transparency existed. So hang on to that. We should talk about that this summer. Some.
01:33:04
Speaker
Yeah. I think drum corps too, having transparency in how other successful drum corps are able to balance their financials would help some of the smaller, newer corps stay afloat too, because it's We've seen a lot of those groups go under or not field a core that season because of financial issues.
01:33:21
Speaker
I think transparency across the board, as far as how to run overall a drum corps, that should be shared amongst different organizations.
01:33:32
Speaker
yeah And just to close it out, just to close it out with what Katie would say, like there's no reason that XYZ Corps, who is paying $1,000, for the example...
01:33:42
Speaker
um is getting fed every weekend, getting transported everywhere, so on and so forth. But then the ABC Corps, who is also paying $1,000, isn't getting fed every single weekend and isn't getting transported everywhere. So like we really need to be able to see that and have that transparency, just as Katie was saying.
01:34:00
Speaker
Yeah. And Katie, what are we doing? I think something I've noticed a lot more as I've been more and more involved in the indoor winds and percussion community is, and also teaching drum corps now, is In the color guard community, it's very common for the contract period to be delayed because of those people who also march indoor winter guards.
01:34:24
Speaker
And then so their seasons are pretty busy up until April when the WGI season is over. So they still have an opportunity to be contracted. And the same kind of goes with percussion. But I've noticed a lot more and more that Drum corps will not really give opportunities to the people in brass sections who are either marching in indoor winds group or an indoor percussion group the same kind of leniency in having to miss camps because of their indoor performances that conflict with those schedules.
01:34:57
Speaker
It just, to me, it doesn't really make sense because those individuals are going to get an experience in bettering themselves. And then on top of that are still aspiring to pay the money and get the experience of Drum Corps.
01:35:10
Speaker
But the same isn't really reciprocated from a staff and caption head level to extend that kind of, I guess, just opportunity to be able to still do both, but also have to miss camps every now and then during that overlapping season. Yeah.
01:35:27
Speaker
all right. Cecilia. What are we doing?
Normalizing Achievements and Leadership Praise
01:35:32
Speaker
I want to celebrate all of the humans in my life for doing good things, but I'm tired of us having to celebrate every.
01:35:40
Speaker
I am the first one of fill in the blank to be able to lead this program. and Did you hear it on the award show last night? I am the first dot, dot, dot to do it.
01:35:54
Speaker
but Let's get to a place where everybody has that opportunity. We don't have to keep celebrating the first time that this group is being led by a woman. The first time that and a woman is a caption's head.
01:36:07
Speaker
The first time that there is a woman writing drill or arranging music. Can we get that? Let's go. Let's go. more first. Let's make it the norm.
01:36:19
Speaker
Great job, everyone. Set your equipment down. Gush and go.
01:36:24
Speaker
All right. Now that we got that off our chest, let's bring some positive energy into the room. Welcome to our Gush and Goes. This is your chance to shout out anything awesome happening in your life, marching arts related or not.
01:36:37
Speaker
If you're excited about a performance, about student success, a big life event, or maybe something cool you want to brag about, no negativity here, just pure unfiltered hype. So who's got something to gush about?
01:36:50
Speaker
Oh, I do. I do. I do. Can I go? Yeah, go ahead. You start us off. So I am the very, very proud president of an organization called the Servant Leadership Association for Music.
01:37:02
Speaker
Our founder and CEO is Tim Lotsenheiser, who has influenced so many of our lives through his servant leadership experience. And I just can't, I can't tell enough people about how if you want to be a part of an organization where there is all kinds of positivity, where teachers of all walks of life at every level, teaching music to band, choir, orchestra, general music all around the world. We have members from all over the world.
01:37:34
Speaker
We get together and we help empower each other to be better teachers for our students on a daily basis. Please, oh, please come check us out. Slam Servant Leadership Association for Music.
01:37:48
Speaker
Awesome. That was so awesome. Okay. Ashley, do you have a gush and go? Yeah, I think I, well, I wasn't really thinking about it before this. And then we're like, gush and go. So I'm like, crap.
01:38:01
Speaker
So think I'm going to gush and go that. I said earlier this weekend, my parents and I are judging Congressional Cup. um That's the name of the competition.
01:38:12
Speaker
it's I don't want to say it's like a big deal, but it's a big deal to me. It's like been a kind of prestigious competition, I guess. Like we have people that are invitees to like, it's a higher level. It's like the elite, the catchphrase is where the elite compete.
01:38:33
Speaker
But it's like the most elite athletes in the twirling world. And like, I get to be a part. I get to judge that. I get to be a part of that is like mind The same competition that I was competing at 10 years, less than 10 years ago ish.
01:38:55
Speaker
So that's really cool. Awesome. Let's see who's next. Holly, do you have a gush and go? Well, it's not marching related, but it is performance related. And I just did.
01:39:07
Speaker
I play in the Alabama Winds we just got to perform with the for the Alabama Bandmasters Association this last week. And we had two female conductors in our panel, which I was super glad to see.
01:39:20
Speaker
There was a group before us that performed. And while they were wonderful, all of their conductors were men. And that really stuck out to me. And I like not knowing that I was going to be doing this, but made me happy that, you know, we do.
01:39:32
Speaker
encourage that but kind of thing. And also this is a really small thing. Some of you know, like my current endeavor is a instrument repair technician. I got burned really badly not too long ago.
01:39:45
Speaker
And so I finally finished the horn that burned me. That's kind of a big deal. Do you mean like a literal burn?
01:39:58
Speaker
Yes. You got to tell me the story at some point. I'll tell you the story. right. Faxophones are the devil. Jenna, Katie, either of you want hop in with yours?
01:40:09
Speaker
Yeah. So I didn't really grow up with a huge background in indoor. My school program that I grew up in just was really small. We didn't really have the budget to do indoor. But now as a teacher, Fishers especially, we have a pretty...
01:40:23
Speaker
pretty like prevalent indoor program with three winter guards and an indoor percussion group. So I just want brag on my kids because this past week we had the goal of setting our entire closer on for our show for the WGI Indy Regional.
01:40:37
Speaker
um We had to end up adding a couple extra rehearsals. And then also on the same weekend of prelims on Saturday, we had state solo and ensemble. So we had several kids out for rehearsal and then kind of working through logistics didn't really work out because we had so many kids gone.
01:40:55
Speaker
But we added an extra rehearsal. And I think a lot of like what we've been trying to coach them into in terms of performance quality and kind of pushing past your wall really clicked for a lot of them.
01:41:08
Speaker
So it also kind of reaffirmed like my sense of confidence in like what I'm doing, even especially with the imposter syndrome of having never marched in indoor group, really, and then going on to teach.
01:41:22
Speaker
I just really proud of my kids and they ended up taking home first place in their class at the Indy Regional, which was super cool. It's just a big accomplishment for the program and all the kids felt really great about it, but still lots of work to do. So excited to get going on that.
01:41:39
Speaker
Awesome. I just have to say, I love what Fishers has done, really watching them for the past like six years. That program explode has been really cool. So cool to see that you're a part of a big fan.
01:41:51
Speaker
Jenna, do you have a gush and go? I do want to say to Katie, I feel the same. I can't announce it yet, but I am starting to dive into the indoor world, but we never had a program at my high school, so I definitely feel you on that.
01:42:04
Speaker
I guess my gushing though aside from marching with Hawthorne Caballeros this summer, I'm really excited to be continuing to work at both my high school and also working my piano proficiency test to finally get my degree from Kutztown University. I should be completing that this semester. It kind of slid under the radar that I had to complete it for my Bachelor of Arts in Music. I knew I needed it when I was music ed. When I swapped majors, it kind of muddied.
01:42:31
Speaker
But I'm looking forward to honestly finally getting that paper that I've been working for for six years. Yeah. Knock on wood.
01:42:41
Speaker
Well, congratulations. You'll get there. That's awesome. Thank you. So my gush and go is I have just ventured into the judging side of the winter world and I trial judge this past weekend for the first time, both downstairs and upstairs. And it was amazing.
01:42:58
Speaker
humbling to say the least. It was so fast, but I feel like I learned a lot. I took a lot away from it. I have two more weekends this coming and the weekend following that I'm trial judging as well. And hopefully if all goes well, next winter I will be full on and judging for real.
01:43:15
Speaker
So yeah, it was awesome. Hey, it's called gush and go, not gush and stay. Let's go. Well, thank you guys for such a great rehearsal this week. And what a great way to show off more amazing women in the pageantry arts for Women Histories Month.
01:43:33
Speaker
Thank you specifically to Ashley, Nicole, and Whitney. Thank you to Courtney for being with us and bringing those amazing stories on all of your wisdom. And big thank you to our guest clinicians this week.
01:43:46
Speaker
Tell us where we can find you on social media, Holly. I don't use a whole ton. I'm really old. So Facebook, I'm Holly Rebecca. um But I do use Instagram a good bit. And I think I'm Holly Rebecca 61 on Instagram. Awesome.
01:44:03
Speaker
Jenna, what about you? You can find me on my professional page, which is at Jenna Foley Music. That's on both Instagram and Facebook. If you want me a little more personal, it's Jenna and Foley also on both of those socials and I'm on threads. I'm on TikTok under similar names.
01:44:23
Speaker
So find me places. I'm out there and you'll see me with the Hoffman Cavaleros this summer. And I'm really excited to see hopefully y'all out at a show. Oh, Katie, where can we find?
01:44:35
Speaker
I'm on Facebook as Katie Zing and then Instagram as Katie Zing 99. And Cecilia. and cecilia Cecilia Clark. I'm on Facebook, of course, but I do actually now have an Instagram account where you can watch what my band kids are up to. And it's at Cecilia V. Clark.
01:44:54
Speaker
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01:45:12
Speaker
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01:45:30
Speaker
Before you close out your podcast listening app, go so subscribe, write a review and share us with a friend. Follow us social media at On A Water Break. And we will see you at the next rehearsal.
01:45:42
Speaker
On a Water Break.
01:45:45
Speaker
The On a Water Break podcast was produced by Jeremy Williams and Christine Rehm. The intro and outro music was produced by Josh Lida. To learn more, visit LidaMusic.com. And until next time, thanks for tuning in.