Transcript
Speaker: When I came in as CEO of the Institute Imagination five years ago, we had 15 different programs in 15 different places, all short term. And the interventions were were're okay, but they weren't deep. that We weren't looking for depth of impact, depth of transformation.
Speaker: We were looking for breadth, numbers of people active in in our work. But I sort of asked my team and I asked many of the beneficiaries that we worked we were working with or for and our board, and and they all said, look, we want to see more transformation.
Speaker: And so that meant, okay, let's let's not do 15 different things just okay. Let's do three things that are brilliant and let's be part of a community. let's not Let's not try and work all over the UK and occasionally internationally, which is what we were doing.
Speaker: Let's start here on our doorstep in Lewisham, in Lamberth, in in Tower Hamlets, and just really get to know the communities. you know ah We can see the problems right on our doorstep. So this is where we need to restart from and build from here. and So it's with that mindset that I had as a you know as a child and and then as a teenager working as a youth leader thinking, if you're part of a community, you can help change it.
Speaker: Welcome to an exciting new season of the Charity CEO Podcast, where we bring you the stories and insights of remarkable leaders who are changing the world for the better. We talk to the movers and shakers who are driving positive social change, inspiring you to think big, act boldly, and make a difference.
Speaker: A huge shout out to our incredible global community of listeners spanning over 55 countries. Your thoughtful comments and feedback continue to fuel this growing movement, and we couldn't do it without you.
Speaker: To all of you who pour your hearts and souls into making the world a better place, especially those of you in the charity and non-profit sectors, thank you for the tireless passion you bring to your work. This podcast is for you.
Speaker: I'm Divya O'Connor, and here's the show.
Speaker: Imagine if creativity and curiosity truly underpinned how children learn. What aspiration and innovation could be unleashed? How can we truly empower children to reimagine both their future and ours?
Speaker: This is the primary focus of the Institute of Imagination. In this episode, I am joined by Martin Alan Morales, CEO of the Institute of Imagination, for a conversation about the power of creativity, curiosity, and play.
Speaker: We explore the Institute's programs that centre play as a core methodology within their pedagogy and how they stay true to representing children's voices. We talk about systems change and the need for disruption to build new models of aid and development.
Speaker: We also talk about Martin's extraordinary journey coming to the UK from Peru as a child and how he used the mediums of music and food to foster human connection and a sense of belonging.
Speaker: And how 40 years on, anti-immigration sentiment still casts a shadow on British society and what Andy Burnham's new government needs to do to change it. Enjoy the conversation.
Speaker: Today's episode of the Charity CEO podcast is brought to you by Eden Tree Investment Management. An award-winning provider of sustainable and impact investment solutions, Eden Tree is investing for a better tomorrow.
Speaker: Its experienced team of investment professionals look to generate long-term returns by searching out high-quality businesses that are driving positive change for both people and the planet.
Speaker: And it's not just their investments that make an impact. Eden Tree is proudly part of the Benefact Group, a charity-owned family of specialist financial services companies that give all available profits to charity and good causes.
Speaker: If you'd like to find out more about Eden Tree's range of sustainable investment solutions, visit www.edentreeim.com or speak to your investment advisor today.
Speaker: With any investment, your capital is at risk. EdenTree, it's sustainable investment elevated.
Speaker: Hi, Martin. A very warm welcome to the Charity CEO podcast. How are you today? Fantastic. Thank you. Great to be here. Oh, you're very welcome. i like to start the show with some icebreaker questions and I have four questions for you, if we can get started.
Speaker: Yeah, sure. So, question one. Can you share with us something about yourself that people wouldn't typically know? i love surfing and I love five rhythms dancing. Oh, five rhythms dancing.
Speaker: Excellent. Question two. What would you say is your professional superpower? ah Listening and talking less. Question three, share with us a quote or a motto that inspires you.
Speaker: Maya Angelou, people may forget what you say, what you do, but they'll never forget how you made them feel. Yes. And final question, what is one question that you think charity leaders should be asking themselves right now?
Speaker: How can my organization evolve into the next 10 years without losing... next ten years without losing the the mission, but also by embracing innovation and not just through technology.
Speaker: And that is very pertinent to our conversation today, Martin. Thank you again for joining me today. Let's start off by hearing about your organization, the wonderfully named Institute of Imagination. Tell us about its origin story, its mission and its work.
Speaker: Sure. 20 years ago, two amazing women, Diana Ullem and Michelle Dorian, following the passing of their good friend Alicia Delphine, they said, look, in honor of Alicia's mission, which was to create the first children's museum in the UK, we're going to carry on that work and really kickstart it and and follow that through.
Speaker: And really with the idea that children's museums in the US are places where our children can go and play and make and really think and really imagine what their future could be like. Very interactive, very immersive experiences.
Speaker: Not just things behind cabinets, but really immersive experiences in one physical place. And so they had the idea of of bringing that to the yeah UK and really kick-starting that here.
Speaker: And 20 years later, we we haven't achieved that because we've evolved and we've wanted to really go where where children are in their communities. And so we now today exist to empower children to reimagine their future. that's That's from our founding foundations, particularly five to 11 year olds in communities experiencing disadvantage.
Speaker: And we do that with creativity, with play, with STEAM, and we developed those creativity, curiosity, collaboration, critical thinking, all of those sort of, we call them the eight competencies that that are founding patron, Sir Ken Robinson, sort of developed and and handed over to us, an inspired part of our work in our pedagogy, always to try and help problem solving and resilience among children and young people.
Speaker: So last year, we worked with around 17,000 children, 1,000 educators, at ten about about a thousand educators um And one of our main programs is called the Power of Play. It's funded by the brilliant Lego group who have supported us in this work in piloting no real cross-collaborration a consortium of different charities which we've together brought together for a particular borough in London called Tower Hamlets.
Speaker: And it's been three years of the Power of Play across more than 80 schools, which is the total schools, but then also in surrounding areas. about 38,000 children.
Speaker: And now that model and has inspired another programme, which the National Lottery has just given us confirmation for the support of, which is a £2.5 million pounds grant to over five years to help us grow into into the north of England, Northern Ireland, and Scotland and Wales. And that's called Playing for a Fairer Future. And that's really got children at the centre, children's voices at the centre of our work there.
Speaker: So that's that's what we do. And of course, we are navigating how we support children through the avalanche of AI and technological change, but always with that focus around creativity, imagination, as well as empathy and curiosity and play, because these are really important aspects in this in this AI age, I think I love the idea of unlocking the power of play. And we are recording this podcast in early August. And I know the National Day of Play in the UK was just earlier this week, I believe on the 5th of August. And I must say, Martin, congratulations on securing the national lottery funding for the playing for a fairer future. program. Can you tell us a bit more about how you ensure that children's voices are really represented in this, as you say, against the the avalanche of AI that we are seeing?
Speaker: i mean, for us, it's been a gradual process of really understanding how we become, and we're still in that process. We're not absolute experts, but we're one of the only organizations in the UK really with this focus. And that's what the National Artillery highlighted. And that's what the Power of Play and the Lego Group have really championed and supported us with. um This is about obviously working with parents and carers and teachers and the community, but really being on a level with children, and know sitting next to them, not with a clipboard and a load of questions, but using play, using games, using engagement in workshops and to say, you know what you know what what could the future look like? you know What's important to you? and
Speaker: And asking those questions, say, not with a clipboard, but but but in a gamified way that's not not gamified through computer games in this case, although we use a lot of technology, microbit, zapper, and others as well for certain children age groups, but but for others not.
Speaker: And so our objective is is to help them have a voice. That voice could be could be important and informative and entertaining even to their parents or carers and could help that family to make life choices, but it could also be important to their community, their school,
Speaker: And we hope towards policy change. I mean, I sit on the National Play Commission, which I started a couple of years ago, to to provide some recommendations for for government on the importance of play across digital, across playgrounds, across playtime, across the curriculum, across health and well-being, and even planning and the built environment.
Speaker: And why shouldn't children have a voice in that? It's they who are affected. It's they who know best. And it's they, particularly children in disadvantaged communities that are being left out in those conversations and they those decisions. So I find myself more and more representing those voices when they're not there, obviously, as an adult, as a person that's been invited to to Parliament to talk about this or to advise, or to the European Commission or other other sort of groups. So, yeah, take that that responsibility very, very seriously.
Speaker: And what are the sorts of policy changes that you're currently advocating for? What do you think can make the most difference for children in this space? I think, I mean, we're trying to make sure that there is a, we'd love to see a play minister for a start.
Speaker: We'd love to see there being more playgrounds, more youth clubs. We'd like to see playtime grow because it's fallen in terms of the school time. It's fallen gradually year by year.
Speaker: um We'd like to see, in terms of the IOI and the Institute Imagination, we've always we've always used play as a methodology within our pedagogy. The creative learning approaches in general to learning should be part of the way we learn any subject.
Speaker: And we think the curriculum is very outdated in that way. It's not built for careers of the future, which many of which we don't know yet. So that is a key part. So... so so you know Learning in schools as a hub for most children, not all, but most children, I think is really important, the way we evolve that education system, but also what's happening outside of the education system and what's outside of those institutions we call school and learning.
Speaker: What's happening on the streets, what's happening in in in in places that provide that access for children, whether it's a youth club or a leisure centre or a football club. and also what what the media and what social platforms are are saying and how we are ah we are promoting good, healthy play as opposed to you know promoting addictive tendencies or or negative emotion feelings that could be happening. and it was So we we've set out a series of recommendations from the Play Commission to Parliament and through the newly formed all-party parliamentary group on play,
Speaker: That's how we're taking that forward and and and seeing if we can create real change. Play England is, in England, is playing a key role in that. We, as an organisation, have contacts with Play Scotland and Play Wales as well.
Speaker: And we, through Playing for the Fair Future, are having also those conversations and those partnerships now, growing our work it more sort of in all the nations of of the UK.
Speaker: Martin, I'm curious to hear how you got involved with this work. Tell us a bit more about that. In terms of my journey here? Yes. Sure. I mean, well, I grew up in Peru and as a child. I'm Peruvian originally.
Speaker: And I grew up surrounded by this you know extraordinary culture with lots of creativity, but also seeing inequality firsthand. My my maternal family comes from an indigenous farming community.
Speaker: And I came here age 11 to the UK, fleeing violence from Peru as a refugee. and And I experienced what it was like to to arrive here without, you know, without really that sense of belonging, you know, looking for safety.
Speaker: And unfortunately, a school that I went to, I suffered a lot from racism. So those first experiences gave me A real understanding of local communities, both both farming communities, indigenous people and people living in the cities like like Peru and seeing that poverty firsthand, although I had somewhat a privileged you know position at the time of not living in poverty, but some of my family were and seeing those inequalities and then coming here and living in a working class community in the center of England and in Colville in Leicestershire, where Margaret Thatcher had closed the mines and the
Speaker: Industrial Revolution was taking on a new stage, and a lot of people were being forgotten. And as a result of that, people like myself who had migrated here felt the blunt end of of that that rhetoric that was so prevalent at the time, which has now sort of really increased again, and is anti-immigrant sentiment. so So yes, that set off the foundation. But for me, that turned into a a career, yes, now in social impact and environmental impact, but a lot more into going through working first in culture, creativity, entrepreneur entrepreneurship, but always trying to bring people together. So I've spent i've spent much of my life, in a way, crossing borders, and geographical, cultural, and the borders between business and creativity and social impact. So that's kind of my journey.
Speaker: With that context, I moved first from working through music and then technology, then entrepreneurship and social impact. I worked at EMI, first making the tea and then running record companies and launching well-known artists like Katie Tunstall and working with Josh Stone and then worked at Disney, launching Miley Cyrus and Jonas Brothers and people like that.
Speaker: And then working in the the early days of of ah iTunes at Apple, a business that that I was one of a team of five in Europe and that launched from zero to grew really fast. and And then I left all of that to be a social entrepreneur and and founded a series of restaurants called Ceviche Mandina. I really wanted to just start one restaurant, but It was really successful and people loved it. And it was all based around Peruvian food and culture.
Speaker: We had an art gallery, we had a record company, an ingredients company. We brought fair trade quinoa to this country for the first time. we And we also had a charity that we supported, a children's education charity. And that was that was my first experience. And i was ah i was on the board there for 10 years. So that was my first experience in children's education inequalities, aside from my own that I'd suffered or I'd seen as well as a child.
Speaker: So those things really led to a moment when I sort of said, look, I want to, you know, I've become a social entrepreneur. entrepreneur I want to use this experience in business, in large companies, working with multi-stakeholders, different complex stakeholder systems. um Think about how international development can really work and international organizations in the charity sector can really work.
Speaker: and how innovation can and transformation can go into into the sector, because it's it's an essential sector for for societies, but it's it's not had enough innovation. It really needs not disrupting, but evolving.
Speaker: And I just saw, I just see my place in this very clearly. Wow, that certainly is an ah unusual root pattern. And to come back to what you shared about when you first came to Britain at the age of 11, and sadly, even at that tender age, faced discrimination and racism and anti-immigration sentiment. And as you say, it's a really sad indictment of our society that, you know, almost 40 years later, Britain is still facing similar issues. And I wondered if you reflect back
Speaker: you can share how how did you deal with that as a child? Yeah, I mean, as I said, so I arrived here when I was 11 as a refugee, and so I experienced that racism and hostility.
Speaker: So today's anti-immigrant sentiment isn't new to me. But Britain also gave me extraordinary opportunities. And so, you know, as I've mentioned, sort of I've built businesses, I've created lots of jobs, I've paid taxes, I've employed hundreds of people and led organisations serving communities.
Speaker: um So I really think migration shouldn't simply be reduced to numbers. It's it's about people, contribution and belonging. And those early days for me were about, of course, in a way, we're about survival. You know, we, they call it third culture kids or, you know, migrant mentality. I don't know. We we are survivors.
Speaker: We have to overcome trauma. We have to find that balance in life and we have to relate and find belonging and find community. And I tried to do that all the time with a lot of empathy. but you know You mentioned, you asked me at the beginning, you know what what words would you describe yourself as a leader or something like that? You asked me, I think.
Speaker: And I said listening. and But I have a lot of curiosity and a lot of creativity. And I like connecting with people, even if they think I'm different, or at the time as well. So that's why when I was younger, i sort of said, no, i I didn't say I hate this community and you're all evil.
Speaker: because many were being very antagonistic and racist towards me and physically and verbally. But I said, look, I'm going to become a youth leader. And that's the first thing I did, become a youth leader so I can you know show my worth within this community and become part of the community and give, not give back, but be within the grain of that community.
Speaker: And it's interesting because today that's exactly what me and my team are doing. may we i sort of When i came in as CEO, of the Institute Imagination, we five years ago, we we had 15 different programs in 15 different places, all short term.
Speaker: And the interventions were were're okay, but they weren't deep. that We weren't looking for depth of impact, depth of transformation. We were looking for breadth, numbers of people active in in our work.
Speaker: But I sort of asked my team and I asked many of the beneficiaries that we worked we were working with or for and our board, and and they all said, look, we want to see more transformation. And so that meant, okay, let's let's not do 15 different things just okay.
Speaker: Let's do three things that are brilliant and let's be part of a community. let's not Let's not try and work all over the UK and occasionally internationally, which is what we were doing. Let's start here on our doorstep in Lewisham, in Lamberth, in in Tower Hamlets, and just really get to know the communities. you know We can see the problems right on our doorstep. So this is where we need to restart from and build from here. And whatever learnings we have, we can then take them to other places.
Speaker: So it's with that mindset that i had as a you know as a child and and then as a teenager working as a Euclid thinking, if you're part of a community, you can help change it. And that's what we're doing now as well.
Speaker: I love how you've reframed that, Martin, that in the face of that hostility, what you thought was a way to cultivate contribution and belonging. and I speak to many leaders in the sector and I know that colleagues, particularly in the the refugee sector, face direct threats, harassment. mean Many organisations are sadly having to spend charity funds on bolstering their security and on additional measures to protect their staff and their offices. Safe rooms, yeah. Yes, indeed. And and part of the problem is this polarised political environment that we're now in and the anti-immigration rhetoric that unfortunately is being spouted by the far right. And coming back to influencing policy and government, what would you like to see from the new Andy Burnham government on this?
Speaker: ah i mean I think we need long-term investment on in children, in education, in creativity, in communities. We really need to rebuild social cohesion.
Speaker: We've got to embrace innovation and AI whilst also, and this is part of what we do at the IOL, is also protecting what it means for us to be human and and what it means for a child to show their humanity, connect with each other. Because if we If we lose those vital skills, which technology is sometimes helping us lose those, it's it it slows us down from going outdoors, from playing with each other, from challenging ourselves, you know, in that sort of physical environment as well, where we are sort of connected, where we can look at each other, you know, each other's eyes and really feel each other.
Speaker: I mean, I go on workshops sometimes where part of the workshop might be looking at someone for 10 minutes nonstop. And this is not in the IOI. This is separate that do for my own personal development. But I can feel how that empathy and that sort generosity can come from that.
Speaker: And that's really good for work. That's really good for progress. That's really good for innovation. That's really good for performance, you know, if you want to go into sort of business terms. So I'd like to see the government also embrace AI, of course, but also protect what makes us human.
Speaker: And most of all, you know, I'm British. As I said, I've i've lived here for 40 plus years and my father was British. So I've i've got the right to be here.
Speaker: and I am, you know, you could say slightly, you know, we we are all different. We're all unique. We all have abilities or not. And so it's critical at this point with...
Speaker: with some of the rhetoric that you mentioned, which you know I saw when I first came to this country and I thought, this is getting better year by year. But then i but for the last 10 years, I've been thinking, gosh, this has not been getting worse. This is getting worse. And we can see that, that sort of divisionism happening.
Speaker: i think I think it would be smart for any government to create a Britain where background doesn't determine your future. And you know the government works on bringing people together and listening to each other.
Speaker: And linked to that, of course, is systems changed. And you talked about that a little bit earlier. And I know that you have some interesting perspectives on what the social sector could do to create sustainability within that constantly changing environment and the role of innovation and disruption within that.
Speaker: Talk to us a little bit more about that. The two are related. So systems change, but also sustainability. When I mean sustainability, um That can mean a couple of things. That can mean financial sustainability, but also leaving legacy or empowering local communities.
Speaker: So financial sustainability for an organization, a charity, for example, but also sustainability to empower a community where you might have worked on a program with that community, co-creating, co-designing.
Speaker: and And therefore, if you if you're no longer there, how can that community be empowered and know how to and be resourced to carry on that work that they started and they led and they co-created with with a facilitator like like me and us and our organization?
Speaker: I think that's really, really vital. System change means... ah for me also means that we can be an organization like ours that's 10 people big or you can you can have a revenue of of of a few billion like save the children but even save the children can't do everything on their own and so for example in tower handlets in our program power of play we are the consortium lead we very democratically we work in partnership with our partners but save the children are one of our partners and they deliver a part of it and they do it brilliantly And they bring their expertise there.
Speaker: And so there's another charity called Ambition Aspire Achieve that is an amazing charity. It's locally based and works for Children with Scent. and we'd send children. And then there's another another social enterprise called Easy Peasy.
Speaker: Now they're they're an app and they they have access to parents and carers. They do phenomenal work. So we couldn't be doing that bit. And they they're the experts at that. So finding the expertise in big and small companies, in small and big charities, being really down to earth about it and saying, yep, I can't do this bit. Or yep, I'm weak in this bit. So who could do this? Or actually, I don't have all the answers.
Speaker: What do you think Save the Children? What do you think Ambition Inspire Achieve? What do you think Young V&A is another partner? We've got amazing building, right? So each has a brilliant role to play, which we're blessed that a corporate, normally corporate sort of, yeah they wanna do good to help their business grow and I don't know, greenwash sometimes, I don't know, who knows.
Speaker: But in this case, the corporate's really committed to the social impact and and they they not only give money, They help really develop programs, bring people together, and they are ah as as interested in about impact as I am. so And as motivated by it their team, certainly, and the CEO of the UK team, for example, and obviously the global CSR head, which I met which i which i met up with again the other day.
Speaker: they're as as fascinating, as interested and as as ambitious about social impact as we are. So that is a combination of how to bring people together for systemic change in a local community and really think of the touch points of where a child is living. So that's, I guess, my marketing background for working in records and and technology and hospitality and other areas.
Speaker: You know, I've always been sort of customer-centric, user-centric, they call it in our tech world, right? user-centric design. Now our focus is around everything starts and ends with a child. You know, the children is at the center of our universe is one of our values at the IOI. We have three values and that's the first one.
Speaker: So what happens when a child wakes up? What are they thinking about? What are they doing? What technology they're doing? What happens when they have breakfast? If they have breakfast, what happens when they walk to school? Who's influencing them?
Speaker: Their friends? What happens in school? What happens after to school? What happens in the the the playground nearby or the roads that are happening? What happens on the technology platforms, et cetera, et cetera? So how can we...
Speaker: create better environment and greater better activities and better learning experiences for children in all those areas. Now that's why you need different partners and that's why you need physical and digital partners to create that systemic change.
Speaker: And as far as sustainability for charities is concerned, Yeah, and that's ah that's aligned to that, but I'd like to think that all charities and even foundations and corporate partners or CSR department, et cetera, really need to think like that because the world's changed, you know, economic pressures, geopolitical instability, shrinking public finances, USAID, you know, sort of almost closing and and funding from the UK government, all of this, and this huge competition for philanthropic funding. So that
Speaker: The charity model is pretty much broken and won't survive if it's not changed. So charities need to become more entrepreneurial without becoming less principled. They need to diversify income, really think about their commercial partnerships, really think about philanthropy around earned income and how they can be more socially entrepreneurial, and think about technology and new types of collaboration. So it's it's it's about...
Speaker: you know, rethinking, it's not about just innovation for it for its sake and innovation through technology, as I said before, it's about rethinking the operating model. and So how can, yeah I'm just going to end now, but and it's a big question because I'm really passionate about it, so sorry, I'm going on a bit. but But it's it's not about charities protecting, they shouldn't be protecting the old model because that old model's gone, it's life's changed and the systems right now, that the pressures are so big.
Speaker: think it's important to think of how they protect their mission whilst reinventing the model. And that's what I've been focused on at the IOI and all the different boards I've sat on and and the work that I'll do in future.
Speaker: And I love how you described there, Martin, about each entity within the system bringing their specialist expertise and working together in partnership in order to deliver for, in your case, the child being at the centre of that universe. And that's what's going to really drive the sustainability and the change longer term.
Speaker: Yeah, critical. I mean, that's so that's what we get out of bed for, right? So to change people's lives. Absolutely. What are the other two values? You mentioned that was one of three. I'm curious.
Speaker: Imagination equals creativity equals innovation and equality, inclusion and belonging a part of our DNA. So those those are three simple values.
Speaker: Yes, we often hear, Martin, about what the social sector can learn from the commercial sector. But I think you're probably of the similar school of thought as me, because I think there's actually a lot that can be learned going the other way. And what would you say you learned from the business world that you bring with you to the charity sector?
Speaker: I think I mentioned that I worked at a couple of really big complex organizations, multinationals, Apple and Disney. both very different culturally. One, a newer organization that was growing extremely fast, that's Apple.
Speaker: And the other, you know, huge tanker but of ah of an organization with real set ways of working where we still were innovative, actually.
Speaker: So we had different demands. So from Apple, I learned how to grow very quickly, how how to work with international offices and how to nurture and create them and cultivate them and start them from scratch. um how to understand different audiences but but really become local.
Speaker: As Marshall McLuhan used to say, think global, act local. And from Disney, at one point I felt like I had 27 bosses because I worked across 27 territories. And I ran the sort of the music business but also a couple of the franchises, High School Musical, Hannah Montana, for example.
Speaker: And we had to work across borders, across media, across platforms, across products. And so you have to really be an expert in stakeholder management because there's a lot of protectionism and silos that that was happening at Disney at the time.
Speaker: And I think me and a few others sort of thought, this is not good for business. It's not good for our customers. It's not good for our team morale. ah In short, it was terrible politics. It's you know it's toxic.
Speaker: But we said, no, actually, we need to break through that, not protect every little penny and every little bit of our our own businesses and be competitive with each other. really think customer first, really think about the franchise and the story we're trying to tell, whether it's Toy Story or whether it's High School Musical, and and really work together.
Speaker: so So I was franchise leader for High School Musical, and we just sort of said, okay, what are your plans? What's your ideal in which area? And let's look at sort of the timelines for all of that. We coordinated all of that.
Speaker: I um and the team that we worked at and worked with coordinated all of that so that there wasn't any cannibalization, any crossover. and so that everyone could win. And we did. And it became the biggest sort of you know toy property or kids' property in the world as a result of that mindset. And that's what Disney taught me, of how to not make decisions from above, but sort of make decisions from below, bring people together and collaborate and have a shared vision to be able to have success.
Speaker: And that's what I'm bringing to the charity sector, the INGO sector, and the coalitions that we began building at at the IOI and at the you know different boards that I've been on. And that's sort of, in a way, systems change, but flipping it. you know We're not making money, we're making impact.
Speaker: That's what we want. And that, for me, has been, you know, i I sort of felt like i needed to get the commerce bit out of my body when I was younger and flush it out because I thought, you know, that's that's really cool and that's really interesting. And I know businesses has got a lot to give.
Speaker: But ultimately, because of my beginning of of life and those life experiences, I always felt and knew this is going to be, when I find the right level of experience and when I have the right know-how, I'll be able to take this to have impact to improve people's lives.
Speaker: I love what you said there, Martin, that we're not making money, we're making impact, but you still need to adopt and bring those commercial business principles to the charity sector in order to really make that happen. Yeah, exactly. you know In business, it's quite clear in in the commercial sector, you know there is there are massive pressures where it's either partners or the market or the consumers kind of going, we don't want your stuff, so go away. And it's like, oh my goodness, what happens now?
Speaker: And so you have to you have to evolve and you have to transform. You might have the same mission, you might have the same brand, but you have to evolve. You have to not just cut costs. I hate it when that happens. And that happened when we were at Disney. I found that really lame. I just thought, I believe in people and talent and how people and talent can evolve and find and and work through innovation processes to find new solutions, and to think outside the box. So, you know, this chat the charity sector,
Speaker: Our sector needs new people coming from different places, people with big hearts, but also big minds, and they've thought differently. And that's what we've done in every sector that I've worked in. I've always been humble enough to go in there and learn really quickly, not being an expert at the beginning, but you know after a year, two years, expert enough to be able to lead teams that that know that and have been there for 20 years, but also to say, open up, because we're going to bring someone else from some other area that's going to blow your mind and make your work even more fascinating.
Speaker: And is there anything that has surprised you working in the charity sector? What have you learnt? Look, it's a lot more a lot more collaborative than many other sectors. you know The tech sector pretty good, but it's It's now becoming a little bit more toxic. And you know at the beginning, the tech sector wanted to change the world, wanted to improve people's lives. that People can now see through all of that.
Speaker: The music industry has always been very cutthroat. I found it as as I moved out of world music, which is where I started working with Brazilian and African and Latin American music, Cuban music. I moved into the pop sector. I found the real cutthroat male, toxic, sometimes drug, sometimes racism.
Speaker: and and I didn't like that at all and so there's camaraderie's that exist from different those different points of privilege that I felt very uncomfortable with dare I say and I think that unfortunately a lot of that continues today whereas the charity sector is really always looking at itself and looking at how it can improve it's very consciously trying to navigate that yes we can be a bit too sensitive with certain issues that affect us but we do have to adopt more feminist leadership we do have to decolonize our systems if we're working internationally. We do have to find much more equality within what we have and particularly representation. you know We can't just be from one sector of society that's very well schooled, that comes from the right places.
Speaker: If we are going to help someone somewhere else and we have to you know empower those people or let them let them have the tools to be able to to lead rather than just through privilege having those tools and leading ourselves in it and sort of overpowering so to speak.
Speaker: and So it surprised me how much compassion there is and how much collaborative nature there is and and and hopefully such willingness to to evolve and change. I'm finding that more more and more every day as bigger challenges emerge.
Speaker: And coming back to your personal journey as a leader, Martin, I wonder if you could talk a bit more about what this work has required of you personally. I mean, you previously talked about your personal burnout and depression. i know that we are currently... in challenging times. And I speak to many leaders who are facing challenges on multiple fronts in their organization. And the funding landscape is incredibly tough. And as you just mentioned, many organizations are looking at cutting costs and that means restructuring. And that means actually people and programs get impacted. And I was just wondering if you could share how you led through that and what personal tools did you develop in order to to navigate that's those challenges?
Speaker: I think at the beginning of my working life, I really wanted to prove myself. I thought resilience was about being strong and carrying on and being the best and all this kind of nonsense that the old type of entrepreneurs and business leaders would tell you about in a very male chauvinistic way and very sort strength-based. um But that's just I found out the tough way, you know, that's not that's not sustainable. Always being available, carrying everything yourself on your own shoulders, constantly pushing.
Speaker: You know, well-being isn't separate from leadership. It's part of being able to lead well. And i as I said, I've learned that the tough way, but that's because I felt that society was telling me those things and I wasn't listening to myself. So, you know, what I've worked through in the last 15 years is looking more inward than outward.
Speaker: and really being more with myself and really listening to myself, and really being much more in presence and really trusting me and myself and others and resting, you know, the power of rest.
Speaker: You know, I work for the Institute of Imagination. we We believe in boredom because when you create space in an adult way, I'm very supportive of of meditation practices, of yoga, of, I mentioned five women's dancing.
Speaker: All of this are embodied practices that get you away from the head and into the body and create space, the space for things to happen. So you can think, so you can work through problems rather than putting them on the shelf or finding distractions to sort of take you away from the challenge you might have.
Speaker: Or, you know, or using using tech to accelerate something and then slowly you're kind of going, so what am I accelerating? What am I doing? And so so that all of that can become very overwhelming. So so yeah, my my new superpowers are, as I said, that presence, that trust, and that rest. And that that has kept me sane these last sort of 10 years. And i'm and i'm I'm on that sort of personal development journey to improve those so that my wellbeing continues well balanced so I can be of of service to others, but also of service to myself and bring that self-compassion back.
Speaker: So i think I think resilience is much more about knowing how to recover than getting through stuff. Yes, and I love the frame there of the power of boredom and sitting still. And I almost feel that my kids today have completely lost that notion. If they're not on an iPad or not being stimulated by some game, they almost don't know what to do with themselves. And I know that I think what you do at the Institute of Imagination is to really cultivate that sense of
Speaker: You don't need external stimulus, but actually looking within and and getting those creative juices flowing. But that comes from, as you say, the ability to to be quiet almost and not have external noise constantly being pushed in. Yeah, and to create safety.
Speaker: And hopefully healthy stimulus can come to you, whether it's the beautiful smell of a flower or whether it's the the warm feeling on your skin of the sun, or whether it's the smell of a perfume of someone that you care for.
Speaker: And then, of course, if it's a touch on your arm of your your friend, and he's just saying, excuse me, hey, do you want to do this? And all of those things are so life-affirming that they're essential for our well-being, and we take them for granted. And we we disconnect with it's stuff that's really vying for our attention just to sell our data.
Speaker: Yes, this is where that human connection is so vital and so important and and can't be replaced by ai So we do need to protect it and and almost treasure it. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: Martin, what gives you hope now at this moment? Well, I'm blessed to work with children and you know the power of childhood that you know even you know we work with children that come from refugee communities and you can see as I have had in some, to some level, you can see trauma firsthand, but, but beyond that, you can also see hope, can also see a lot of curiosity and intelligence.
Speaker: And, and you can see a lot of drive, not just from, from children that we work with, but from children in general. So that, That fills me with joy. and i have two children, which I've hopefully been a good parent with with my wife, you know in helping them have stability and well-being and happiness and be curious and be able to to find their their way in life and and to overcome challenges.
Speaker: And they give me hope as well, just watching them. i also think that there is a beginning connection with which, you know for a moment, COVID accelerated.
Speaker: beginning connection with nature and the natural world and an understanding and appreciation for it. I hope that continues. Unfortunately, I see governments as well as particularly companies sort of slowing down their ESG departments, their sort of work they're doing in sustainability. And that that's not great because I think younger people are looking for for those expressions within the companies that they follow. They're looking for purpose themselves and places they can work. They can feel that that that company is not just making money for a few people, but but sharing that that wealth, but also leaving to a good footprint on this planet and helping it become much more regenerative.
Speaker: So young people and some businesses and an outlook on purpose is what gives me hope. And coming on now Martin, to our closing question, what is one thing you'd like people to take away from this conversation? Give us a final thought or reflection.
Speaker: ah Gosh, there's so much I could say, but I'm going to lean into what we do in a way and what my raison d'etre is at the moment and has been for the last five years. And for me, through my life as well, you know imagination has played an important role. It runs through everything I've done.
Speaker: from imagining a different life when I arrived here you as a child and using music and food to bring people together through the restaurants that I started and and through the records that I produced and the music companies and charities that I work for today, and then building business and now helping children imagine futures that that they don't know exist yet.
Speaker: And so I just i would try and i we try and help people think about how they're using their imagination, how powerful that imagination muscle really is to everyone, especially to their children, but ah to all of us.
Speaker: you know i always say imagination leads to creativity, leads to innovation and problem solving. And that could be that could be a problem you might have in your own home with your own family. And that could be a crisis. That could be something just small that you're dealing with.
Speaker: But it can also... be powerful enough to change someone's life and to create the innovation that we want to see in the future to help our planet become safer and and happier and healthier.
Speaker: Well, Martin, Alan Morales, thank you so much for this moving and deeply personal conversation. And thank you for sharing everything that you have. It has been a pleasure to have you on the Charity CEO podcast.
Speaker: Thank you. Really enjoyed it.
Speaker: Well, that's a wrap on another inspiring episode of the Charity CEO Podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling empowered and uplifted. I know it did for me. If you loved what you heard, please share the joy by leaving us a quick review on your favorite podcast platform.
Speaker: Reviews really help us reach more listeners and grow this amazing community of change makers. Be sure to also hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode. And for even more inspiration and resources, head on over to thecharityceo.com.
Speaker: There, you can dive into our past episodes from the last five seasons and find valuable content to help fuel your impact. Thank you for listening. And remember, together, we're building a better world.
Speaker: See you next time.
