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The Left Hand Of Darkness with Emily Inkpen
213 Plays2 years ago
This month we're talking about one of the all-time classics of science-fiction literature, and arguably the book that demonstrated science-fiction could be literature: Ursula K. Le Guin's The Left Hand Of Darkness, a million-selling Hugo and Nebula winner. We talk about the book's enduring legacy, its approach to worldbuilding, character, and loose(ish) plot, and how the book plays with ideas of light, darkness, a balance of the two, and ultimately, love. We also dig into the book's sexual politics, the extent to which the book is feminist with respect to its portrayals of sex and gender, and the controversies that greeted the book from some surprising sources.
Joining us to talk about Le Guin’s book is the author Emily Inkpen. Emily was born in South London and raised on the South Coast of England, but moved to Glasgow for her university years and now lives in Berkshire. She juggles copywriting for Marmalade Game Studio with writing novels, short stories and audio drama, and is the Social Media Officer for the BSFA.
Elsewhere The Judge talks about monarchies in our writing, particularly pertinent given the recent succession in the UK. We have the winner of the Chrons October 75-word writing challenge, and peace talks at the 43rd Andromeda conference sadly collapse when the discussion turns to the erotic properties of golden eagles. Naturally.
Join us in December for a talk about Christmas ghost stories with the author Alison Littlewood!
Index
[00:00 - ] Emily Inkpen Interview Pt 1
Voicemail 1
The Judge's Corner
Writing Challenge
Voicemail 2
Emily Inkpen Interview Pt 2
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Cronscast
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to Cronscast, the official podcast of SFF Chronicles, the world's largest science fiction and fantasy community. I'm Dan Jones. And I'm Christopher Bean.
Discussion of 'The Left Hand of Darkness'
00:00:26
Speaker
Today we're talking about Ursula K. Le Guin's important feminist science fiction, The Left Hand of Darkness.
00:00:31
Speaker
Published in 1969 by Ace, The Left Hand of Darkness follows the loose story of Genly I in assembly epistolary format. He's a human diplomatic envoy sent to the planet Gethun to advocate for its joining with an interplanetary confederation called the Ecumen.
00:00:46
Speaker
He's guided by the gathenian politician Estroven, but generally is frustrated by his lack of understanding of the planet's culture, shift with thought, and particularly with respect to sexual biology. gathenians are ambisexual and become either male or female for only a few days each month in a period known as chema when they become sexually active.
00:01:04
Speaker
The book has been reprinted more than 30 times and has become a classic of the genre. It's won the Nebula, the Hugo and has sold over a million copies and frequently appears near the top of polls listing the greatest science fiction novels. It appears to be even more pertinent today as society struggles to become inclusive vis-a-vis trans rights and gender.
Introduction of Emily Inkpen
00:01:23
Speaker
Joining us to talk about Le Guin's book is the author Emily Inkpen. Emily was born in South London and raised on the south coast of England, but she moved to Glasgow for her university years and now she lives in Berkshire. She juggles copywriting for Marmalade Game Studio with writing novels, short stories and an audio drama, and she is the social media officer for the British Science Fiction Association.
00:01:48
Speaker
Her trilogy of novels, the first of which is repped by our good friend John Gerald at the John Gerald Literary Agency, is currently in publisher submission and she has written a prequel audio drama series and it all falls under the title of The Dex Legacy. She has a background in medical writing and copywriting for HealthTech,
00:02:10
Speaker
And so the scientific influences that feed into Emily's work tend to be on the biological side. The Dex legacy tells the story of three biologically enhanced children owned and raised by the megalomaniacal weapons manufacturer turned head of state, Nathaniel Dex. So welcome, Emily. Welcome.
00:02:29
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
Emily's Recovery and Writing Influences
00:02:30
Speaker
Hello. Hello. Well, it's wonderful to have you because it's taken a little while to get this scheduled because you've been struck down by the dreaded COVID lurgy. So how are you feeling now? I am feeling much better and thank you very much for postponing. I don't think you'd have got much out of me a week ago. But yes, I'm much recovered, I think. Yes. That's one thing we missed from your bio is that you can break down, strip and rebuild a gun, a rifle.
00:03:00
Speaker
Which is always useful for a for a science fiction novelist. Well, I mean, it does explain I realized I write a lot of military side sci fi. I mean, it's Dex legacy is very political, which actually was inspired a lot by the left hand of darkness. But
00:03:19
Speaker
It also has heavy military influence and it took a long time for me to realise that potentially my time as a military cadet might have actually played into that, my sort of interest in that area.
00:03:32
Speaker
where it always strikes me as funny that the things that you pick up in your life just by going through your life, they influence your writing in funny ways. You pick up bits and pieces and they always say write what you know. And I remember thinking when I was younger, what the hell does that actually mean? Write what you know, I don't know anything. And then as you get older, you do pick up these odd little bits like putting together a rifle. And then you think, oh, actually I can feed that into
00:03:58
Speaker
into my science fiction military industrial complex trilogy. Well, for me, it's weird because I write the like basically the entire trilogy. But all of my write what you knows happened retrospectively. So I didn't realize that what I was writing came from certain things that I've been through experience and everything until I'd already written them.
00:04:22
Speaker
And then I was thinking, well, hang on a minute, where did that come from? So I didn't like sort of think about it and think, oh, I know this thing, I could feed it in. It all happened. It was like, you know, my, I just wrote it and then realized that it was related to the things I'd been through. So that's your, that's your subconscious, just pulling the things that are important to you or are going to be important to you, pulling them down into your manuscripts.
00:04:47
Speaker
Exactly. It was like a retrospective voyage of self-discovery. A future retrospective, yeah. That happens anyway when you're writing, I find as well. Those things that you don't... Well, I suppose it depends if you're a strict planner or somebody who is more of a discovery writer. But you can often
00:05:08
Speaker
You know that that lightning will cut well not lightning But that that idea or some or some detail will come which is informed so much by your experience But you never have thought of it thought of it when you were planning or at the moment It just suddenly comes from both from the blue. I really love it when that happens Yeah, so left hand of darkness.
Emily's Admiration for Ursula K. Le Guin
00:05:28
Speaker
Why did you pick this seminal book for discussion?
00:05:32
Speaker
Well, um, I am a massive Le Guin fan. I do actually have her words tattooed on into my skin. Um, I, well, you can show us, but, uh, it doesn't make for great, great audio. But what does that, what does that say? Um, it says, um, to light a candle is to cast a shadow. And so this comes from the wizard of Earthsea.
00:05:59
Speaker
when a, when the sort of one of the wizards that's teaching, teaching the kids at the wizard school, he's saying that in magic, there's a balance. So you can say, okay, I'm going to water this crop, this, you know, this crop, I'll take the rain and I'll bring the rain and I'll water it. But then somewhere else in the world won't get written. So
00:06:25
Speaker
it's sort of saying, you know, whatever you do and whatever you influence with your magic is going to have an effect. But then also this quote does actually remind me of a moment in the left hand of darkness.
00:06:40
Speaker
Um, which of course have been the left hand of darkness. It does talk about light and dark. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, that's it. Yeah. It's a clear theme, isn't it? The idea of balance duality is central, isn't it? To left hand of darkness. So yeah. Um, so what was it about left hand of darkness that, that, um, caused you to pick it? Um, well, there's a moment where the main characters, um, generally I and, um, a Stravan are crossing a, uh, glacier and
00:07:10
Speaker
when they're crossing the glacier, there's this phenomenon that occurs where it's a complete white out and there's no shadows. And when there's no shadows, you can't see anything. You can't see, you've got no depth perception. And they, it's very dangerous because they suddenly there's fissures opening up in front of them that they didn't even see because there's no shadows. They can't see that there's fissures there. And I absolutely love this idea of the fact that when there's a lack of shadows,
00:07:41
Speaker
you can't see like you darkness is obviously perceived as not being able to see but without any darkness, you can't see anything. And I think that that's a really interesting idea. And it's just this image that has kind of haunted me actually, it's kind of terrifying this idea of being completely blind, almost in bright light. Yeah, well, it's an ancient idea, isn't it? I think I
00:08:05
Speaker
I think Le Guin was pulling on some very ancient ideas from a few different directions when she pulled together Left Hand of Darkness and, I suppose, the Earthsea stories as well. I mean, the poem that Astravan recites to... I'm going to see if I can find it now. He recites a Gethinian poem.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yes. To, generally, as they're walking across the ice, and this really does encapsulate the theme of the book, and here I found it here, and it's, light is the left hand of darkness, and darkness the right hand of light. Two are one, life and death, lying together like lovers in kema, like hands joined together like the end and the way. That seems to absolutely chime with what you're saying.
00:08:55
Speaker
And it's almost religious in its imagery, I think. The end and the way is very Christian language. And it coincides with...
00:09:08
Speaker
generally drawing the yin and yang sign in the ice. At some point he draws the circle on the ice, divides it and puts the dot in either side, which is the same thing, a drop of light in the darkness and a drop of darkness in the light. Very ancient ideas. It's this universal, it's sort of like a transcendent language almost, because obviously generally has come from
00:09:36
Speaker
the planet of, and he's sort of like an ambassador on this, on winter, which is the planet as they know it, or Gethin. And he is trying to sort of communicate with them to convince them to join a almost like confederation of planets that are in touch with each other and exchange knowledge.
Genly's Mission and Challenges
00:10:00
Speaker
And it's all planets where human life has
00:10:04
Speaker
like sort of has grown and taken sort of made a presence for itself. And obviously on this planet, human life has changed in terms of like the way gender happens. But his sort of role there is to find a common language almost. So the using of these symbols is really interesting and him finding like a ground
00:10:32
Speaker
with him and Ostravan, who, just for a bit of background for anyone who's listening, because Ostravan was the Prime Minister of the country that he landed in. Which was Carhide. Yes, Carhide.
00:10:49
Speaker
this Prime Minister becomes his friend really. He's sort of co-conspirator almost generally has to convince people that he exists and that what he stands for exists and is true. And yeah, Estraben becomes his, you know, he believes him really vitally and works with him to try and convince other people and to try and
00:11:17
Speaker
like bring their people forward and make this partnership with this confederation and bring them into this relationship, intergalactic, I guess, interceleration.
00:11:32
Speaker
But it doesn't go so well at the beginning. It doesn't really go so well for either of them. It starts with the ritual of the blood in the stone, which, Chris, I know you like that a lot, didn't you? Very sort of weird fiction and gothic fiction about having the blood mixed in with the mortar, which is quite, it's kind of ancient and a bit, sort of macabre. Are you asking me or Emily? Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Come on, Bean. Well, yeah, I mean, I was, I was, um,
00:12:01
Speaker
I was pre-sold to it because I used something in my book, but I found that the thing that hooked me into a story that wouldn't have hooked me because, like I was explaining before we started recording, I'm not really a fantasy reader and it read
00:12:19
Speaker
at the beginning, the whole thing with the ceremony and the people and the sort of pageantry, it read like something that I'm really not a fan of, but as soon as they got to the mortar and the keystone, and also, obviously, the minute you read keystone in any literature, you think, oh, that's going to be meaningful in some way, you know, linchpin. I started to sort of tune into the book, but I think also
00:12:43
Speaker
It gave me something I could relate to as a horror reader because of, like you said, the weirdness of it, but also in an opening few pages which are saturated with names, strange terminology, just absolutely really, really head screwy things for someone like me, struggles with lots of things at once, floating point calculations.
00:13:07
Speaker
Stylistically, it is very much of its time, isn't it? It's very front-heavy with the world building. I mean, we've encountered this before when we've talked about old texts, when we did Lud in the Mist. I mean, that's seriously front-loaded.
00:13:23
Speaker
So we would, when we spoke with Julie at E McKenna, we were convinced that actually Hope Merellis was just making it up on the fly, just world building on the fly, sticking anything down in the manuscript and seeing what the hell came out of it. I don't think Le Guin is quite that slapdash, but still, there's a lot of front loading and a lot of funny names and stuff. But it's not the first book, is it?
00:13:49
Speaker
in that. Would a reader have been pre exposed to that? Wasn't it the first one published? No, I think it was the fourth. I don't know if the dispossessed came first. I think there was something, I don't know. It's like you said, I don't know if it was published, but I did find myself thinking, is this a me problem?
00:14:16
Speaker
because I've not read the other texts, so maybe I'd be familiar with this terminology in this. But the thing is, with that aside, even as somebody who's not into that or who struggles with that, I picked it up. It's not something you, it's not inscrutable.
00:14:32
Speaker
I think there's a certain element of that I appreciate it with it in that it does throw you in at the deep end. And it almost makes you understand Jen Lee's point of view in that he's suddenly woken up in this culture that is so rich and has no idea what's going on. And it is all a bit much. And
00:14:55
Speaker
if anything, I mean, I know that it's of a style, but it does sort of help to put you in Jenny's shoes almost and sympathise with him as a character. It's like, oh, you know, we've got a lot of catching up to do, to, you know, work out what's going on here. And that's, again, that's the central thrust of the narrative, isn't it? It's that that Jenny is coming from
00:15:19
Speaker
one position as, well, he's the other on the planet. He's the different one. He's the only human being. He's a pervert. Sorry? He's the pervert. He's the pervert, yeah. But when we come onto the sexual politics, he's the pervert because he's a man all of the time. And as we said in the intro, on Gethin, sex is fluid, but gender is immutable. So gender is fixed.
00:15:48
Speaker
people's gender doesn't really change at all. They're sort of stuck in this, the the Gethinians are not really male, they're not entirely male, they're not entirely female, they're kind of fixed in the middle, but sexual biology is the thing that is fluid and moves around at different times of the month. Yeah. It's very strange for generally to get his head around. And while
00:16:11
Speaker
As Stravan buys into the nature of Genly's diplomatic mission, he still has a hard time understanding Genly as an individual. And it's only as they go through the book and they're subjected to various different trials, tyrannies, and the epic last journey across the icy desert in the last third, that they're able to come together and find that, their balance, the lighting, the candle to cast a shadow.
00:16:39
Speaker
So they arrive at that balance at the end. But yeah, it's at the beginning we are, it does feel very much like a living, breathing culture. When we first see a car hide in the midst of its pomp and ritual at the beginning of the book, it feels real, it feels living, it feels overwhelming, like you said it, Chris. There's a lot to engage with here.
00:17:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think that that is one of the wonderful things about it, because in other sci fi, it's sort of it, when it comes to the world building, you don't necessarily get thrown quite so much into the world into the sort of
00:17:24
Speaker
day to day elements of it, the sort of the religions and the rituals and the politics.
Le Guin's Sociological Exploration
00:17:31
Speaker
You know, and you get like one of the things that stood out for me is the fact that in a lot of sci fi, you get sort of planet countries, as I sort of think of them, and we're talking like, in Dean terms, like Arrakis is is one country, basically. But you know, it's surrounded by space, which is the sea. And to get from one country to the next, you have to go through space as opposed to crossing an ocean.
00:17:54
Speaker
Whereas with the left hand of darkness, we do actually see another planet where there are two separate countries and two very different systems of government, very different cultures, ideologies, all of the rest of it incredibly distinct on this one planet that is incredibly alien as well. And yet also has some similarities like in the governments and in the sort of society itself, you can see reflections of
00:18:24
Speaker
society but then it is again it is it is alien so it's it's trying to and that I mean technically the alien parts are the human parts you know that the politics and everything is pretty recognizable in car hide they have a monarchy and in augurin which is the neighboring country they have a bureaucracy
00:18:46
Speaker
And these two countries are like mortal enemies. They, you know, shoot each other on the spot kind of deal. And, you know, they're constantly sort of in a state of tension. And I think that that richness isn't, you know, you don't necessarily just get the comparison between Earth or Gendy's sort of
00:19:11
Speaker
Ekman kind of origins and this planet. But you also get this planet, which has its comparisons like the, you know, the first place where he lands compared to the the other country like Carl Hyde versus Orgorin versus the Ekman, and how he is welcomed in each place is very different because he does go from car high to Orgorin and he is welcomed very differently in each place. And I think that that is
00:19:40
Speaker
fascinating and as a writer kind of schooled me on what is possible in sci-fi when it comes to exploring new places and different places. It's lesser, I read an article which was shared by one of our friends and
00:20:03
Speaker
a prolific poster and member and blogger on Crohn's and on his own blog, The Big Pete, Pete Long. He shared an article a while ago about
00:20:13
Speaker
It was about a Game of Thrones, specifically the TV adaptation and how it borrowed from the book. And it was stating that the narrative overall was a sociological narrative. So it looked at society as a whole. And that's where it sort of drew off its individual psychological plot strands or character strands, character arcs. And it seems to me that
00:20:38
Speaker
left hand darkness is doing a similar thing. It's, it's, there's a, you only get to the sort of the psychological narrative deep into the journey in the desert, really, that's when because everything generally in a straven and then in splendid isolation, there is no such thing as the society, whether it's car hide or auger and they're completely excluded from both of them. And all that's left is their relationship with it with one another and them coming towards each other and finding that
00:21:07
Speaker
was balanced. But before that, it's all sociological. Yeah, it's the first time it has a sort of typical character, you know, with a character, character learning something can plot between people rather than just concepts that, you know, that stuff in the on the big journey across the wasteland. I really appreciated the relationship between them. And I enjoyed that much more that book, especially the struggles
00:21:31
Speaker
with generally having to find a place as a human with all the patriarchal trappings and assumptions. That's when it became interesting for me.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's more, I suppose that last third of the book, which is dominated by that journey across the ice, that's what would become, what would be more recognisable to the modern reader. Yeah, definitely. That's psychological exploration. The first two thirds do read more like, it's very, it's hands off, isn't it? The whole thing seems to be written at arm's length.
00:22:11
Speaker
Genly's epistolary accounts are kind of journalistic, I would say, rather than exploring his inner journey, which the journey across the desert is reflective of. Yeah, I mean, I think you mentioned Orgorin. Orgorin is a bureaucracy that ends up being a bit of a fig leaf. And once
00:22:35
Speaker
generally is he's incarcerated when yes in the volunteer camps in the volunteer camps I mean it just it just struck me as I don't know if you've read the Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn but it was it just was it almost echoed parts of Gulag Archipelago perfectly it struck me how did she manage to encapsulate what was going on in Soviet Russia
00:23:02
Speaker
four or five years before Gulag Archipelago was even published, it's really uncanny. But she just, she nailed it in that way that a bureaucracy is just a figlet for tyranny, which is exactly what it is. It's a tyranny which thrives on disinformation, control, brutalizing political prisoners in a way that's
00:23:25
Speaker
sort of far away from the prying eyes of society and there's a line that says we let what is it we let the farms in the wind to do them they let the farms in the wind to do their murders for them yeah which is very cold and brutal i think well there's i mean there's yeah i i think that that's also i mean like you can't help but see a mirror basically held up to our own society in orbara and in many in many respects and it's a very human place and actually there's a moment where
00:23:55
Speaker
generally says or reflects on the fact that he come, he's had his training on Hayne, the planet, but he comes from Earth and the fact that he comes from Earth puts him in a better position for dealing with the bureaucracy and the false sort of trappings of Orgorin than if he had been born and raised on Hayne, which I found incredibly interesting because
00:24:25
Speaker
Obviously he's not just harkening back to his past and his training, he's then talking about where he was born. And that sort of, he recognizes in himself what Earth is. And also I think Le Guin is referring back to the fact that this is in many ways a mirror to our own society and calls into questions a lot of elements of what we recognize in ourselves, but in this extrapolated situation. I've really felt,
00:24:54
Speaker
know, after, when we first get to that section, to Orgrain, I was like, oh, this is where I'd rather live, you know, in my mind. And, you know, it's funny, because again, it's that, well, this is my cultural capital, this is what I understand. And this is, you know, excuse me. Not the leather jack boots, then? No, that was, that was value added.
00:25:19
Speaker
No, but it was, it is, you know, I remember I was sending Dan voice notes saying I can't believe this was written in 1969. I can't believe this was published in 1969. Because this is so relevant today, the stuff that is going on in the in the story and how depressing that can be, you know, as well as how smart it can be. It's what it seems. It seems portentous. Yeah, doesn't I suppose it always has been but she's
00:25:49
Speaker
I mean, it's held up as a feminist book and I think that's halfway towards the truth. I don't think it's fully a feminist
Themes of Gender and Identity
00:25:57
Speaker
book. I think it's written much more from her anthropological background. That's my opinion that it's much more of an anthropologically inclined book than a feminist inclined book, although obviously there are elements of that because everything that she's writing is
00:26:15
Speaker
is ancient it seems to me she's looking back for all of it being a science fiction and set among a confederation of planets and all of that stuff and space travel and starships it's looking back she's looking she's drawing on on themes from antiquity like the the the Taoist yin yang and the light in the darkness and the light in the darkness it's it's from it's from the story it's from the exodus story and i
00:26:42
Speaker
I didn't, it struck me halfway through, as I was listening to a Jonathan Pajo podcast, and he was talking about Exodus, and I was reading like the left hand of the darkness for this at the same time. And he talked about the part where the Jews are being led by Moses through the desert. And at one point,
00:27:02
Speaker
they're being led by a theophany, like a manifestation of God. And it's a column of dark, a column of cloud in the daylight and a column of fire in the night.
00:27:15
Speaker
being led through the desert. And it just sort of hit me exactly what Le Guin was doing. And it absolutely staggered me that she'd sort of figured this out and updated this into a late 1960s science fiction, where it's exactly the same thing. They're being led by the darkness in the light of the icy wasteland. And they're being led by the fire in the darkness. It just staggered me that she managed to do that. But yeah, it's looking back.
00:27:41
Speaker
I think that, I mean, when I first read this, I was at university, I was studying English literature, I was also studying philosophy. And when it comes to those subjects, I think Le Guin was on a lot of reading lists, shall we say, because her ideas are deeply philosophical. I mean, you've got the dispossessed, which is an anarchist society, a very deep
00:28:07
Speaker
exploration of anarchism in you know a whole society built on anarchism this is obviously is um it's more of an exploration of i mean obviously these two societies but also you can't really get away from the um gender situation going on there the the sort of it's i mean when when people say it's a feminist book i would say the only the only reason it's a feminist book is because you take away men
00:28:37
Speaker
and you take away women. And then they're working on a level playing field.
00:28:42
Speaker
on Gethun, this is because we still have, generally, as a man, the Earth man. Genuinely, it's the Earth man, but everyone, like the norm on Gethun is to be neutral. And I think that that in itself is a very interesting exploration of, if you're talking about feminism as a movement, we are trying to get to a state of equality. And Le Guin sort of exemplifies this by taking away
00:29:12
Speaker
the separation between the sexes, which is really interesting. But at the same time, because she's surrounding it by the trappings of what has always been, you know, with with monarchies and bureaucracies and all of the undercurrents that we recognize the, you know, the good and the bad. It's not better. It's better, I think, it's better for the individuals, I think. But it's not
00:29:38
Speaker
you know, in that there's no difference and there's no sort of like, you know, the only the only time people are persecuted is for is for political reasons, as opposed to because of, you know, their gender discrimination on down to their immutable characteristics, for example. Well, it's interesting comments on flirting and rape and, you know, all those interpersonal things that happen with gender that don't happen on Gethan. Yes.
00:30:07
Speaker
Exactly. I think I think it's really interesting also is how they approach it, the fact that when people are in a state of chemo, which is when they go sexually active, when they are sexually active, yes, and this happens once a month. And, you know, they sort of one of them when they come together, one of them will take on one side and one will take on the other, like if we're talking about male or female size of things, and it depends on the other, they were like,
00:30:36
Speaker
when they come together, there's a balance that struck and one will go one way, the other one will go the other way, and it's very much a response to what's happening. And the way they sort of, they play with this, there's moments in Orgorin where there's one particular key moment where generally is in danger of being manipulated. And there's a character,
00:31:02
Speaker
Um, just trying to remember the name of, um, he's the one who is very, um,
00:31:15
Speaker
Oh, obsolete. Is it obsolete? Is the name like OBS? OBSLE? Is this when? Is it a car hide character or an auger in? It's an auger in character and he's very attractive. Oh, I know what you mean. Oh, yes. Yeah. There's the hacks or some HAXE or FAXE. It's an AA.
00:31:41
Speaker
Oh, facts is the, the religious. Yeah, is that not him? No, it's, he's definitely. Okay. He's definitely on the organ side, but he tries to manipulate Genly. Genly. You're saying Genly. I always called him, I always refer to him as Genly, but I guess this is like a gift for a gif situation. So I'm trying to say Genly.
00:32:05
Speaker
Those kind of things, I think there's such a small issue, aren't they? Unless an author has come out and said, I want it pronounced this way. I remember George Lucas saying, I don't care how people pronounce, you know, the aliens in Star Wars, some people pronounce them this way. It's a universe. So people pronounce things differently because of their region. So that's what I think about things like this. When I did the introduction, I was, you know, I don't know how to pronounce this stuff and I'm reading it and people are probably going to be cringing. So please say it the way you used to say it. You're used to saying it.
00:32:34
Speaker
All right, okay, so Gendli. He seeks to seduce Gendli almost and sort of get under Gendli's skin. And the way he does this, he goes to a place where you can induce a state of chemo. And he takes some kind of artificial hormone to induce that state. And then he goes and visits
00:33:01
Speaker
Gendli. And there's that moment where it's a very uncomfortable scene between the two of them where, because I think at that point, Gendli is still trying to wrap his head around the sort of male versus female situation that's going on on Gethin. And there's this person who he has described throughout as being very attractive, beautiful. This person is beautiful.
00:33:29
Speaker
and this person is then coming on to him and it's I don't know it's it's a very um yeah as I say it's it's an uncomfortable scene and yeah I don't really know how I felt about it I came away from that I think I think I got exactly the right um the right emotional response from it which was just uncomfortable and
00:33:52
Speaker
know, I guess, I guess actually being like, it's like anybody who's had an unwanted sexual advance, and you've just got out of it and managed to avoid it. And you feel sort of, yeah, there's, I guess, I guess generally, generally is kind of because he is he's called the pervert, as we've said, because and that's, because he's
00:34:18
Speaker
biologically male all the time. And that lines up with his masculine personality traits, I suppose. But I guess that kind of fetishizes him a little bit, doesn't it? Not for all of the characters, but certainly for, I'm still trying to find out his name, but yeah, it sort of fetishizes him because now he's the one that's the other, the outcast, the different one. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a fascination
00:34:46
Speaker
with that sort of like intoxication almost and fascination of the fact that he is technically the way they see him is because he is constantly male, he is in a constant state of this kemma and therefore constantly sexually aroused. Whereas when they're not in kemma on Gethin, they are just completely, they have no sexual desire or leanings or anything like that. They're just not sort of stimulated in that way or, you know, and
00:35:16
Speaker
Obviously, it's very different to what we're used to. But then for Genley, throughout the novel, it almost becomes the norm. And I think that that is, as we've talked about before, solidified by he and Ostravan's journey across the ice and sort of discovering each other and discovering who he is in relation to
00:35:41
Speaker
Estraven but also in that society. And when the people of Gethin work out that they do want to become sort of connected to the Ekman, he sees the woman from the spaceship for the first time and she is alien to him.
00:36:07
Speaker
And I found that very interesting as well. So Gendli has gone through such a journey on Gethin that being around people from pain and earth is uncomfortable to him. They are the aliens now, but he is also in a constant state of alienation. And I think that that
00:36:31
Speaker
It's almost, it's a bittersweet ending to the book when that happens, I think. Well, I mean, spoiler alert, everybody who listens knows we deal in spoilers all of the time. Estravin does not survive, well, he does survive the journey across the ice, but as they get towards the border of... Estravin kills himself, essentially. He sacrifices himself so that Genly can make his way back across the border into Carhide. Yep.
00:37:00
Speaker
And so, yeah, you're right. He generally is in a state of alienation at the start. He's in a state of alienation throughout the whole book, whether it's in Kahad or Orgrim, when he's incarcerated, put into the tyrannical farm, the labor farm. And at the end, when he's reunited with a Hain woman, an Earth woman, he's also
00:37:26
Speaker
He's also still has that sense of alienation. But the only section where he doesn't have that sense of alienation is ironically when he's alienated from the rest of that and he's walking together with a Stravan across the ice.
00:37:45
Speaker
It's so funny that it's a feminist book and even in a feminist book that the relationship between generally and a Stravan is handled with, it depicts such grace and then moving together and become almost as one.
00:38:03
Speaker
not quite, it's never consummated in a sexual manner, psychologically, they do become this couple. I think, yeah, there's definitely a sort of, it is a love between them. And that's what makes the death of a Stravan in the end. So tragic, because they have come so far together. And actually, there is a moment when they're crossing the ice, when a Stravan is in a state of Kemma. And he
00:38:33
Speaker
is very careful in that time to not come into physical contact with Gendli and to avoid that kind of close physical contact because he doesn't want to trigger in himself a full Kemmering, basically a full Kemmer experience. And there's a reading of this in a book called Deconstructing the Starships by Gwyneth Jones, which is absolutely fantastic.
00:39:01
Speaker
but she reads this as sort of an anti-feminist sort of statement because in that he is trying to avoid becoming female in essence. And she reads this as him not wanting to become female because that's weak. And I don't agree with this at all. I saw this as entirely practical. They are in the middle of crossing an ice field and the last thing he wants is to go into all like, you know,
00:39:30
Speaker
he's referred to as he all the way through. And that's another point that I want to touch on. But he is in a state, he could go into this state
00:39:41
Speaker
it's sort of explained all the way through that when people are in this state, they're not really good for much apart from, you know, sexual things coupling. Yeah. Yeah. So I sort of see that civil that as a completely practical move on a Stravan's front in that this is the last thing we need right now. I'm not in a position where I can take days out to do sexual things right now. We've got across this ice. And yeah, I think that
00:40:08
Speaker
I think I don't think that that was a front to
Reception and Relevance of the Novel
00:40:11
Speaker
feminism at all. And I certainly didn't get that sort of that view. Yeah, I mean, it's very strange that when the book was was published in 1969, it was described as a feminist book for for clear reasons. Yeah. And at the same time, it was criticized most heavily by feminists.
00:40:34
Speaker
It was Alexei Panchin criticized, as you've just touched upon it, the use of pronouns, which, you know, then that was in 1969. So, you know, sometimes we think these radical, strange new battlegrounds are a la mode, but actually, you know, this is old stuff, actually. Fermi said that the novel wasn't feminist enough.
00:40:57
Speaker
One writer at the time said Sarah Le Fanu criticized it for not being exploratory or experimental enough with respect to gender roles. And I think all of that personally, and it's easy, I guess, 53 years later, I think it's all very, very harsh because I think the book is, I always say the text is the text and what's written in the text is meant to be in the text and that's what the text is.
00:41:22
Speaker
And like we said before, it's written more from the pen of an anthropologist or at least an anthropologist's daughter than a feminist, even though Le Guin did describe herself as a feminist. We should say that. But it's even handed, I think. It's an even-handed book. It's about balance. If it was
00:41:42
Speaker
If it was too feminist, then it would be, well, too feminist. And one of the, one of the things that a Stravan realizes as they journey across the ice is that, uh, he, the pronoun game, a Stravan realizes the beauty in Jen Lee's masking masculinity. There's a, there's a wonderful passage. Um, I've got it noted. I'll see if I can find it.
00:42:11
Speaker
There is a, I'm going to read this verbatim if that's okay. There's a frailty about generally, he's all unprotected, exposed, vulnerable, even to his sexual organ, which he must carry always outside himself. But he's strong, unbelievably strong. I am not sure he can keep hauling any longer than I can, but he can haul faster and harder than I, twice as hard. He can lift the sledge at front or rear to ease it over an obstacle. I could not lift and hold that weight unless I was in doth
00:42:41
Speaker
To match his frailty and strength he has a spirit easy to despair and quick to defiance, a fierce impatient courage. This slow hard crawling work we have been doing these days wears him out in body and will so that if he were one of my race I should think him a coward. Be it he is anything but that. He has a ready bravery I have never seen the like of. He is ready, eager to stake life on the cruel quick test of the precipice." And I think that's a remarkable thing to say about
00:43:09
Speaker
were about masculinity essentially from the pen of a feminist. And that encapsulates as much as anything else, this sense of balance and this sense that the adversarial nature sometimes of wars and the battles of the sexes or however you want to frame it is counterproductive
00:43:32
Speaker
And that the ultimate message of the left hand of darkness is one of reconciliation and moving towards one another, regardless of who you are, about finding that common ground. And sometimes you have to isolate yourself. I don't want to say your enemy, but the person who seems the other to you, I suppose, at first glance. Recognizing them, what makes them beautiful.
00:43:59
Speaker
And then again, I suppose in yourself, you know, in reflection of the other person, how are you different? And I think when it comes to the sort of like going back to the pronouns thing, just sort of, I think if it was written today, I think it would be a they them situation.
00:44:22
Speaker
I, yeah, you're probably right. Le Guin said that the question of the pronouns haunted her. Yeah. For many years and she couldn't quite resolve it. She couldn't resolve it on the one hand because
00:44:39
Speaker
I think, what did she say? The they, them, I don't think maybe was linguistically elegant enough, I think, or maybe a confect, that's right, a confected pronoun would have been linguistically inelegant, I suppose. I'm paraphrasing, but she didn't want to do that.
00:45:03
Speaker
the idea of them and they, yeah, maybe she could have done, she did use them and they in an unconnected story set on Gethin. Yes. Which I forget the name of, Winter's King. Winter's King. Yes. Is that the story of the two brothers?
00:45:21
Speaker
not yes, yes, the two half brothers on the lake. Yeah, it's not to do with the main narrative of left hand of darkness is set on the same world. Yeah, but she did experiment that was in a short story a few years later, and it was on her mind. And I think maybe because of this, this the criticism that she faced after writing the book from the unexpected sources, that it was plaguing her a little bit. I think you're right, it probably would have been written differently today. But the text is the text.
00:45:47
Speaker
I mean, I think that, yes, the the only reason I say that is because these days we're so much more with so much more awareness around sort of gender and gender fluidity in, you know, us and using they they them pronouns is more common in the day to day. It's more accepted and easier, I think, for people to get on board with.
00:46:15
Speaker
The only thing I would say about sort of the way it refers to everybody as he, him, all the way through, is I sort of can understand it when you're thinking the book is from Gendli's point of view, mostly. And Gendli is coming from a patriarchal society, I suppose. Not much is said about Hayne in terms of whether or not it's equal, but as Gendli is a male, I don't know,
00:46:42
Speaker
maybe Genly is referring to. It's a tricky one, isn't it? Because he does refer to, he does describe a Stravan at various points as being feminine, female-like in terms of his physiology, his behaviour, personality. So it's unclear. But I think looking for clarity in it is the problem. I think Genly is always looking for clarity.
00:47:10
Speaker
in this until they're crossing the ice. Which is a masculine characteristic. Exactly. He's looking for one or the other. And his opinion is, his sort of view is always one or the other. And it's actually, it's interesting when he gets back to, so there's this journey, it starts off in Carhide. He meets the king of Carhide, and he's obviously introduced to Ostravan, who is the prime minister at the time. And he is not
00:47:39
Speaker
welcomed there with, you know, he's the king of car hide is quite frightened of the prospect of these outside people coming onto the planet and introducing new ideas, he's a king, they they're a king, they, they sort of like things the way they always have been. And then they end up going to Orgorin where they're going to hope to get a better reception to sort of support them in bringing this planet on board.
00:48:07
Speaker
That all goes to hell. And then they are brought, they go back to car hide. Now in the meantime, the king of car hide has been pregnant and lost the baby. And this is, this is quite, this one, this interested me because in car hide, as a king, you had to like a true heir was the baby that you carried yourself and birthed. And
00:48:37
Speaker
Because the king had never had a baby themselves, after this baby died, the question then was, he's going to have to choose from his Kemmering children, which is the children he has fathered with other people who have taken on the feminine form and then had his offspring. But it's this idea that those direct children are still his children, but not his children in that he physically gave birth to them. And
00:49:06
Speaker
When Genly comes back to this court, the king is described. I think I've got it written down here somewhere. It's a very beautiful sort of observation where he says that the king is no longer, you know, he's no longer, here we go,
00:49:35
Speaker
The king now looks like a woman who has lost her baby, like a man who has lost his son. And the idea is that he's suddenly, Gendli has worked out that they are both, they are neither, and they are all of the things. And this king who is in grieving, who is in mourning, then has no fear of Gendli.
00:50:04
Speaker
because he's already lost everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's to what that's at the end, isn't it? And I think that that is a very poignant moment. And it shows how far Genly's come in his perception of the people of Gethin, because in that moment, he's not seeing it as this person is in this moment, male or in this moment appears female. They're both. And the grief is as both.
00:50:32
Speaker
And I think that's very poignant in the story. It's instructive to anyone who's writing that you don't have to find these
00:50:45
Speaker
these beautiful flourishes all the time in your text. But if you get them right in the right time in the right space and with the right words, then it changes the complexion of the whole book. And it's not the case in the left hand of darkness that there are these flourishes all the time. A lot of the language is quite dry. A lot of it is quite journalistic. It's epistolary. But every now and then there are these flashes of light that
00:51:14
Speaker
that really bring the text to life in a different way. Yeah. And that's what makes it a great book. Yeah. Agreed. Is there anything else you wanted to say about Left Hand Darkness before we take a break?
00:51:29
Speaker
I think, yeah, just the richness of the text, go and read it. The sort of the presence of religion as well is very interesting. There's two religions on the planet that we talk about, the Handara religion and the Yamester religions. It's such a rich, it's two very rich cultures there. And it's just worth exploring. I think every time you read it, you find new things.
00:51:56
Speaker
in their new references, new, and as you say about certain passages bringing the thing to life, you home in on different passages. And I think that that happens as you grow. Like I read this back when I was at university, different parts of it now stand out to me in the text than they did back when I first read it. And I think it's one of those books, you can read it at different times in your life and at different times of your life, it will speak to you in different ways. So yeah. And I suppose that's because Le Guin was drawing on
00:52:26
Speaker
as well as looking forward because she was drawing on those ancient themes and those ancient philosophies. So those things are always going to be with us regardless of what we do technologically or even socially that there are these ancient things deep within us biologically and psychologically that keep cropping up and they're always relevant and they always
00:52:48
Speaker
The wellspring always springs forth in new ways in each individual. So a text as rich and as deep as this. Sometimes we come onto books like this when we're doing the podcast. We had it with Northern Lights, which on the surface
00:53:04
Speaker
the surface it doesn't look like much and then you start digging into it and it's almost infinite in its depth because the things that it's plumbing are so ancient and so deep you know they're rooted in things like bible stories and ancient myths like that that you can never really get to the to the true bottom of what's going on. What we'll do is we'll have a little break now and we'll come back to our talk with Emily Inkpen a little bit later on in the show.
00:53:35
Speaker
Hello again SSF Chronicles, I'm going to have to whisper because I'm not supposed to be here but I have managed to sneak into the meeting room for the 43rd Andromedum interplanetary conference In front of me is a vast room about the size of football pitch with an enormous crystal dome for a roof There are 5 figures sat around a large black oval table The dark blue walls of the room are covered with rows and rows
00:54:04
Speaker
I don't know, extraterrestrial writing. Look, to be honest, I've no clue what it all means. I've got to see if I can get the phone a bit closer. War has been raging in Andromeda for centuries, but we can now bring it to an end.
00:54:20
Speaker
to a great peace accordance with Zombronians. Was a Chucheans and a Flandak Zombreans. How is that? And as an Avdagian Zump I can safely say that I don't mind Zombronians but us
00:54:35
Speaker
of Zambia Ramyans can never be at peace with the... was it chunkers? Good, because we don't want to be at peace with you either! You smell of fat! Retract that statement! Or I will slice open your anterior vesibiluma with this wand! Gentlemen, we are trying to settle a centuries old conflict. This is not the time for fighting!
00:54:59
Speaker
Oh, what do you mean? Gentlemen! Of landed zooms? Of no gender? What's happened to your legs? It's just the way my trousers are rolled up. Yeah, Wuzchankers have no gender either. I never knew that! How do you reproduce? It's nobody's business but the inhabitants of Wuzchank! But for the sake of galactic peace, I will let the assembly know. We use the golden eagle!
00:55:26
Speaker
I wait! That's the same as zambonians! Deep practice remoteification! Only on a full moon! Well, there you go! It looks like the Andromnian species have something in common after all! And you speak for yourself, Chairman Avalon! Offalines zams are much more unlike everyone else than anyone else! We still use the Golden Eagle!
00:55:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah you do. But in a much different way. A much different way than what? Different than the rest of the universe. Prove it. Right, so I will. Put that away. Yeah, put it away. It smells of cheese. Right, that's it. I've got enough insults. Okay.
00:56:09
Speaker
If you hear that, with the one giant delegate, I pulled out a large saucepan filled with what looks like fried potatoes. The other delegates have all produced sidearms and are discharging them in the direction of the saucepan, which is now growing in size. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to leave because DIY end to end is on in five minutes and I'm not able to work the remote thing on the telly.
00:56:39
Speaker
Hello, I'm Damaris Brown, and this is The Judge's Corner, where I usually talk about legal matters that might be of interest or importance to writers in their work. This month is a little different, though if you have a kingdom in your novels, some quirks I mention here may well be of use to you, as following the death of Queen Elizabeth II on 8th September, I thought I'd touch on the law regarding the sovereign in the United Kingdom.
00:57:05
Speaker
To begin at the beginning, the UK is a constitutional monarchy. That is, the sovereign is head of state, but not head of government. The King reigns, but he doesn't rule, which is different from nations such as the United States, where the president occupies both roles. The monarchy is also commander-in-chief of the British Armed Forces, and the oath of allegiance is given to the sovereign, not the government. But all power in that respect is delegated through his ministers.
00:57:35
Speaker
This current constitutional monarchy is one which has gradually developed over the last 800 years, as the informal advisors to the king morphed into a council formed of barons and nobles, then to meetings attended also by burgesses and knights of the Shahs, eventually creating an elected commons in a parliament which gathered more and more power to itself,
00:57:58
Speaker
including the right to behead one monarch, deem another had abdicated, and to offer the throne to people more politically suitable than those entitled under pre-magenitor.
00:58:10
Speaker
As a result, the monarch's political role is now limited to what the Victorian commentator Walter Badgett described as the dignified parts of the Constitution, the semi-theatrical aspects of pageantry and ceremonial, which were to be differentiated from such bodies as the Cabinet, Government and House of Commons, which he called the efficient parts.
00:58:34
Speaker
And perhaps I ought to pause here to allow for audience laughter at this point. Badyard also coined the famous dictum that the monarch retained the right to be consulted, the right to encourage, the right to warn. These rights and the soft power that comes with them were impliedly recognized on the death of George VI in 1952, when Elizabeth came to the throne. In a tribute to the late King, the Marquess of Salisbury as leader of the House of Lords said,
00:59:04
Speaker
With a passage of centuries, the position of the sovereign in this country has greatly changed. He has ceased to be an absolute monarch. He has surrendered one after another his main executive duties, which are nowadays performed for him by his ministers under whose advice he acts. But though by this evolution the actual powers of the monarchy have been diminished,
00:59:28
Speaker
The influence which it can and does exert has, I believe, been maintained and, indeed, enhanced. The recognition that the crown is above the storms and stresses of politics gives it a monumental strength which it did not possess before. On the same occasion, the Lord Chancellor, head of the judiciary in England and Wales, talked about the relationship of the sovereign to the law.
00:59:56
Speaker
We speak of the King's justice and of the royal courts of justice. In grave words, we address a jury, you shall well and truly try and true deliverance make between our sovereign Lord the King and the prisoner at the bar.
01:00:13
Speaker
so too, the judge, when he takes his solemn judicial oath, swears that he will well and truly serve his sovereign Lord the King. It is by these familiar words, unthinkingly, unconsciously, used in the common order of life, that we bear testimony to the truth that the King, under God, is the source, the fountain of justice.
01:00:38
Speaker
It is he who, under the law, embodies the rule of law by which we live.
01:00:45
Speaker
under the law, perhaps. But the monarch actually has sovereign immunity. The king as an individual can't be prosecuted for a crime, and is effectively immune from civil proceedings. Following on from that, the monarch can't be arrested. But in addition, no arrest can be made in the monarch's presence, nor within the verges of a royal palace.
01:01:09
Speaker
Judicial processes such as Ritz can't be executed in a royal residence, nor can his goods be seized.
01:01:18
Speaker
In his remarks, the law chancellor also referred to the king's peace, which is nowadays little but a quaint expression, but was once an important legal concept. Its long history begins in the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms, when the area immediately around the king's court was subject to laws giving special protection to everyone there.
01:01:41
Speaker
Under the Saxon rulers, the king's peace could also be granted at times such as Christmas and Easter, to places such as fairs or markets, and even to people. Effectively, these were grants of safe conduct, so an assault on such persons was a more serious offence.
01:02:00
Speaker
By the time of William the Conqueror, the king's peace also covered the four great Roman roads in England, so people travelling on them had the king's protection and were subject to the jurisdiction of his courts. All other roads, which at that time remained under the sheriff's peace, gradually came under the king's law over the next 300 years.
01:02:22
Speaker
But as early as the 12th century, the idea arose that the king's peace in fact extended everywhere, though it was enforced most strongly in places or concerning matters in which he had a particular interest.
01:02:37
Speaker
But because it was seen as belonging to the king as a person, stemming from him as an individual, not from the crown as an entity, when the monarch died, the king's peace also expired. While nowadays the crown passes immediately upon the death of the sovereign, originally it was not until the coronation of the new monarch that his reign began, which meant laws concerning his peace lapsed until that coronation
01:03:06
Speaker
which might be weeks or months later. As a consequence, it's said that the death of Henry I in 1135 led to what has been described as an anarchic phase of robbery en masse.
01:03:22
Speaker
How true this is, I'm not sure. Since although Henry had greatly expanded the role of royal justice, England still remained a country where menorial and ecclesiastical courts flourished. But the stability of the realm and the need to preserve order was certainly used as an excuse for the greatest theft of all, the monarchy itself.
01:03:43
Speaker
when Henry's nephew Stephen usurped the throne and was crowned king three weeks after Henry's death. Ironically, despite supposedly seeking to keep the realm at peace, his actions led to a devastating civil war that lasted 15 years.
01:04:00
Speaker
Whatever the reality of disorder going unpunished between the death of one monarch and the coronation of the next, the royal courts themselves had no legal standing during that period. Matters came to a head in the last years of the reign of Henry III as his eldest son and heir went to fight in the Holy Land and was still abroad when Henry died in 1272.
01:04:25
Speaker
In order to ensure the king's peace continued without interruption, Edward I was formally proclaimed king a few days after his father died, allowing the administration of justice to continue in his absence, and he didn't in fact return to England until 1274 and was crowned king only some 21 months after his accession.
01:04:49
Speaker
Nonetheless, although it was no longer necessary to await the coronation of the new monarch for him to rule, under common law, the death of the sovereign meant all offices held at the crown were then vacated. Later, these offices would include those of government ministers and justices of the peace, as well as judges. And so fresh appointments were required by his successor, with paralysis in the administration until such appointments were actually made.
01:05:19
Speaker
Over the years, various statutes qualified the common law. Commissions in the Army and Navy were dealt with in 1837, for instance. But it wasn't until 1901 that final legislation was enacted to ensure a smooth transfer of all offices immediately upon the accession of a new monarch. The demise of the Crown Act stating that,
01:05:42
Speaker
The holding of any office under the Crown, whether within or without His Majesty's dominions, shall not be affected, nor shall any fresh appointment thereto be rendered necessary by the demise of the Crown.
01:05:58
Speaker
As a result, all government ministers and the like now continue in office with no interruption, though judges still redo their oath of allegiance to the new monarch, as do MPs, as a gesture of loyalty towards the sovereign. Incidentally, this act is a rare example of legislation being applied retrospectively, since it specifically covered the period after Victoria's death, though it only received royal assent from Edward VII several months later.
01:06:29
Speaker
The extension of the king's peace from its beginnings as a small area around the king himself to eventually covering the entire country, derived from the royal prerogative, the right of the monarch to exercise his power with unfettered discretion, though in practice it was fettered from 1215, and as early as the 14th century there were attempts to define and limit it.
01:06:53
Speaker
and Bill of Rights in 1689 actually set out specific limitations, so for instance the monarch couldn't levy taxes without the consent of Parliament. Nonetheless, the royal prerogative still exists, in privileges and authority which adhere to the Crown alone.
01:07:13
Speaker
But though nominally exercised by the monarch, the rights are mostly now invested in the government of the day, not in the sovereign personally. They include the prerogative of mercy, such as the granting of pardons to those who have been convicted of crimes, as well as such constitutional matters as the appointment of the prime minister and the power to perogue or dissolve parliament, all of which in theory could be done by the sovereign on his own initiative,
01:07:42
Speaker
But practice only happened on the advice of his ministers. William IV was the last British monarch to attempt to assert any kind of political authority, when in November 1834 he dismissed a Whig ministry, which had a majority in the Commons, and made the Tory Sir Robert Peel leader of government.
01:08:04
Speaker
However, there remains debate and speculation about the consequences of a monarch acting on his conscience and against the government. Something raised in the 2014 play, King Charles III. The royal assent is required for all UK statutes to become law, and the play revolves around the king refusing to give that assent.
01:08:25
Speaker
something which hasn't happened in reality since 1708 when Queen Anne vetoed the Scottish militia bill and on that occasion she acted on the advice and at the request of her ministers rather than from her own convictions.
01:08:42
Speaker
As at the accession of every monarch, the UK's coinage, paper money and stamps will be changed over the coming months and years to bear the new king's image. Other changes, arising from the fact we have lost a queen regnant, have already happened. The queen's bench division of the High Court is now the king's bench division.
01:09:04
Speaker
Actions brought by the crown, usually criminal cases, are now in the name of the king, Rex, instead of Regina. Prisoners now serve in his Majesty's prisons, and at his pleasure. And juris oaths no longer refer to our sovereign lady, but instead to our sovereign lord.
01:09:25
Speaker
and something that for some of us will be hard to get used to, redolent as it is of the Edwardian era and such great names as Sir Edward Marshall Hall, the senior barristers once known as Queen's Council became King's Council immediately on Elizabeth's death.
01:09:44
Speaker
It's said that in 1952, when she came to the throne, some barristers began their cases that day as cases, but finished their legal arguments as QCs. And apparently, there were then two living council, aged 87 and 98, who had been appointed QCs by Victoria, were cases for the reign of four successive kings, then reverted to QCs on the accession of Elizabeth.
01:10:12
Speaker
In view of her reign of 70 years, 214 days, the longest of any British monarch,
01:10:20
Speaker
It's unlikely any council appointed by her father are still alive to revert to being KC's again, nor perhaps will any former QC's live long enough to see another queen regnant. So, the second Elizabethan era is over, and we're at the beginning of another Carolian age, with His Majesty Charles III. By the grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,
01:10:48
Speaker
and of his other realms and territories, King, head of the Commonwealth, defender of the faith. Since the reign of the first Charles brought about the English Civil War, and that of the second was marred by the Great Plague and the Great Fire of London, let us keep our fingers crossed that the reign of the third proves far less eventful.
01:11:12
Speaker
October 75 Word Challenge had the genre of Gothic fiction and the topic of light and dark. To Bean's eternal consternation, I won it with my entry entitled Last Dance Upon The Heath. Last Dance Upon The Heath by Dan Jones.
01:11:30
Speaker
The Earl's manner, that crumbling black ingot amid acres of virgin October snow, sleeps with shutters down, doors locked, tight as secrets. He sits within a beslippered, regretful halvishon, holding frigid vigils beside unlit candles. An old melody promising endless pleasure, and flashes of light taunts him.
01:11:55
Speaker
At midnight toll he drags himself to the manor's modest cemetery. He stands by her grave, countenance fierce, frozen hands gripping his trusty shovel. They will dance again. Hello again SSF, sorry about that earlier. I just needed to catch that episode of DIY SOS because I heard they spent 60 grand on a shed and wanted to see what it looked like.
01:12:24
Speaker
I shouldn't have bothered, because the Andromans were mind speaking the whole way through. And it turns out a lot of them want to take over Earth. Hang on a second, I'll see if I can dial the phone into my head. Yep, there it goes. I'm back in the football pitch size room with the crystal dome and it looks like the Andromans have quit their bickering. They are now gathered around a saucepan and are eating what I think are ranch arrows from it. Sorry about that earlier, Chairman Holborn.
01:12:47
Speaker
Sorry about that. You know, trying to kill you and making fun of your genitalia. I don't know any about that. That's just the type of thing that tends to happen at these conferences. So what do you think? Should we form an alliance and destroy the Earth?
01:13:07
Speaker
Well, they use mathematics and physics to create terrifying weaponry. Andromed and magic, it's good, but it's no match for their, what do you call them? Flutes. No. Nickies. No. Mutton daggers.
01:13:25
Speaker
No. Willy's. No. Pox. No. The Johnston's. No. Takers. No. Atomic bombs? Yes, that's them. Our magic is no match for atomic bombs. Those things have the power to harness the forces that hold together the nucleus of an atom and can destroy every living thing they come in contact with. The mild irritation our magic blasters cause would be no match.
01:13:52
Speaker
That's terrifying. Do you think they could bring them here? No. Humans only seem to be interested in destroying each other. Good. That's a shame anyway. Oppressing and brutalising an extraterrestrial species would have just been the thing to take everyone's mind off the problem here. I suppose, what can you expect from a galaxy? Doesn't use golden eagle. Will we stick on a video? Alright, so... Glad I'll get this for the theory of dancing with the wolves.
01:14:29
Speaker
Welcome back.
Emily's World-Building Inspirations
01:14:30
Speaker
We're here with Emily Inkpen and we've been talking about Ursula K. Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness. Now Emily, you said at the top of the show that The Left Hand of Darkness has been a big influence on your own writing. So could you tell us a little bit about that?
01:14:47
Speaker
Um, sure. So basically the way the left hand of darkness, as we've already discussed, is very sort of politically focused and shows this, this planet with, um, multiple countries and everything that it was the first sci-fi that I'd, I'd got into where it wasn't just, as I said before, a planet that's basically a country. And, you know, they, like when you're, when you're watching Star Wars, for instance,
01:15:14
Speaker
They go to a planet and the planet is just that city or something. That's all you see of it. And no one talks about anything outside. The only one that's different is in Star Wars episode one.
01:15:25
Speaker
which barely anyone likes to talk about, but with the... Well, hang on. Hold your horses right there because you are in good company here. I absolutely adore Star Wars, especially the prequels and the sequels and all the content. So I'm quite happy to die on any hill when it comes to Star Wars, whether it's the animation or whether it's the films.
01:15:50
Speaker
Well, you know, I mean, in Star Wars, mostly it's it's just one place when you've got the Gungans and the Naboo. Yeah. So you've got these two cultures that don't necessarily get on on that one planet. But you don't necessarily see that in other sci fi. And my sort of knowledge of sci fi was quite limited. I think Le Guin was the first
01:16:11
Speaker
the first one of the first that I actually got into and it was through university and through like this specific sort of academic lens and philosophical lens and you know psychological as well and it proved that you can do really interesting things with sci-fi as sort of commentary and you can make planets to be a playground your playground to sort of and you don't have to leave the planet
01:16:42
Speaker
to do sci-fi. You don't have to have it in spaceships. It doesn't have to be about that. And so, I mean, with my big trilogy that I've just finished writing, the first one is wrapped by John Gerald, as we've mentioned. It's all happening on a seed planet. And almost like the Left Hand of Darkness, a long time ago, it was seeded by people from Earth, and they dropped 10,000 people
01:17:10
Speaker
on this planet and those people, it's been 1500 years since that happened and those people have obviously multiplied. Countries have sprung up, different languages have sprung up, religions, cultures, people are invading each other and countries that used to exist don't exist anymore and there's all sorts of things going on, a huge rich history and we don't leave the planet.
01:17:40
Speaker
For a long time, I mean, okay, spoilers. No, the spaceships are coming in the trilogy. I can say that, but anything more is spoilers. And the rest of the time- Because you do have to have a great big spaceship on the cover, right? That's kind of the rule. There has to be a promise there somewhere. It's like in Game of Thrones, it's like the dragons are coming and the army of the dead is definitely coming.
01:18:04
Speaker
still on its way, definitely coming. Yeah, so for me, it's the spaceships are coming. But it's, yeah, it's all on this planet. But one of the things that is quite interesting on my planet is this idea that they have a sort of looking back and trying to understand why they were sort of dropped on the planet SP714, what was intended for them to be there. And they are left there with
01:18:33
Speaker
this incredible amount of data, they call it the seed data. And the ancestors left them with every book, movie, everything that has ever been made by people. And it's all in this huge database, an enormous amount of data. And the exception here is that it doesn't include anything about how to travel through space.
01:18:59
Speaker
So this key omission in the seed data that is incredibly frustrating to them. And there is definitely this sense of being cut off and left adrift with questions about where they came from. And a kind of anger, because depending on the person that you're talking to, they vocally care about the ancestors or they don't.
01:19:27
Speaker
And there's a divide there. Some people, because of the different orbital rate of this planet, you have ages in planet years and ancestral years. And every six years, they add a year to keep up with ancestral years. So basically, when you turn six, you're seven. And then when you turn like, and so they add years. So you can be
01:19:57
Speaker
your 12 planet years, but 14 ancestral years is the idea. And so the people who keep to the planet years are doing it as a kind of comment on the fact that they've sort of left the ancestors, they don't care about the ancestors, they don't want to know. And people who keep the ancestral years are, you know,
01:20:24
Speaker
are different. They acknowledge the ancestors, they appreciate the seed data. They're often quite well read because there's a certain sort of, I know, I know, what was it? It's quite a topical, it's quite a topical thing to use an aspect of one's identity as a political comment.
01:20:48
Speaker
Yes. Is that the sort of sense that you're drawing out with these characters? I mean, in this sense, it's age, which is really quite quirky and different. I like that. But it is using a characteristic which I suppose is in some way immutable and saying, well, actually, it's not. We can tailor it for political purposes. There's a short story that is a prequel to the audio drama and it's available on the website, but in it,
01:21:17
Speaker
the woman says to one of the main characters, Ren, she's like, how old are you? And he says, I'm 15. And she's like, she pulls the face and he's like, Oh, wait, that's 12 planet years or something. Like, I can't remember. Yeah, it's he's like, it's different. It's 12 planet years. Because she keeps she is the kind of person from a kind of culture that would keep planet years. And he comes from a country that keeps the ancestral years. So
01:21:45
Speaker
there's that sort of difference happening there. And he has to correct himself, you know, in line with this culture that would definitely be more sort of ancestor averse. Well, that's very, very left hand of darkness, isn't it? I guess, yeah. It is in a way, isn't it? Well, it may in a different way and sort of using different characteristics, but it's still putting people at odds based on certain characteristics. And then, well,
01:22:15
Speaker
We don't know how the story progresses, but maybe there's some sort of reconciliation, but at least some sort of journey, we'll find out. What strikes me as interesting is this concept of them not having any cultural reference to how to travel in space, because it immediately makes me think of the church or about religion and those kinds of things. Like, okay, we're going to tell you how to be spiritual, codify it, but not going to give you the whole story.
01:22:45
Speaker
which is very interesting to me. I think there's also this distrust. One of the conversations that happens early in book one, it's not a spoiler, is that they're having this conversation and Nathaniel Dex is saying, well, do you believe what the ancestors wrote in the seed data or do you believe that the seed data is complete except for that one type of omission? Because
01:23:14
Speaker
the people who win get to write history. And so he's very skeptical about the fact that the seed data is actually a representation of everything. And, you know, he's sort of like, well, the seed data is great, we can get a lot from it, but we shouldn't try to, you know, we shouldn't put too much faith in it as a record.
01:23:40
Speaker
And I think, yeah, there's a lot of skepticism about the ancestors, but it is a question. I mean, 1,500 years after arriving on this planet, they're having these conversations.
Emily's Writing and Audio Drama Journey
01:23:50
Speaker
What did the ancestors think? What did they mean? What was it for? So it's like a constant complex for these people on this planet. It's like, why? Why are we here? What are we doing? So this trilogy, is the trilogy with John Gerald at the moment?
01:24:10
Speaker
Only book one, but I have one. I've written them all. So do you have any scoops that you could give us about progress or is it just still going through the grinder at the moment? It's still very much in the grinder. We've had some near nibbles. It's definitely given some editors some head scratching time. We know that it spent a lot of time on a couple of desks while they considered things and it almost happened, which is so frustrating when you're a new writer.
01:24:41
Speaker
But you have had success with the audio drama, which I think, which fascinates me. That really does fascinate me. And I want to know, before we talk about the audio drama, the nuts and bolts of it, I wanted to ask, has that been dealt with through John, like by your agent, or is this something that you've done off of your own back completely?
01:25:01
Speaker
The audio drama is entirely off my own back. And it all came about by accident almost. I was approached before I got, before I was represented by John, or was it just straight after? It was around the time. And I got this message on, on Twitter, from a guy called Chris Gregory, who runs the alternative stories podcast. And it's sort of an anthology podcast. It does every season.
01:25:28
Speaker
goes through different genres of things. I'll do an episode in this genre, an episode in that genre. And he asked me to write something for this podcast. He said, would you do a episode? It would be good to get a section of your novel, which I know you're writing, you're working on. And
01:25:49
Speaker
I didn't want to convert a section of my novel because there's a good chance if it does get picked up that an editor's going to change things or have certain edits that they want to make. And I wanted the audio drama episode that I created to be evergreen and to always be relevant for anybody who wanted who came to the books.
01:26:14
Speaker
And so I wrote this prequel episode set 11 years before the first book. And it focuses on a very specific event in the history of Dex, Ireland, Nathaniel Dex, and his colleagues and the kids, Vary and Isra and Wren. And
01:26:37
Speaker
So we released this episode. It was one of the best performing episodes of the year, which was fantastic. And then Chris, it turns out he's a massive sci-fi nerd. We're both really into the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy original sci-fi, original radio show. I was basically raised on it. We align on a lot of things. And he said, I've always wanted to do a full season sci-fi audio drama.
01:27:04
Speaker
can we do a sequel, can we do a series of this? And that's where the full series came from. And then we sort of rebranded and relaunched as the Dex Legacy. And yeah, it's gone from there. And it's kind of gone gangbusters a little bit, hasn't it? I mean, it's done really well. It's done pretty well, yeah. I mean, season one has today smashed through 20,000 downloads, which is nice for a season one.
01:27:33
Speaker
And, um, you know, we're pretty happy with that. And, uh, I think that, I mean, it's, it's, it's nice to look at the grass and to look at the numbers. Uh, we're currently between seasons. So, uh, we're, you know, like we're not really releasing anything, but the numbers are staying pretty steady.
01:27:51
Speaker
And we've got, we're actually, we're releasing a bonus episode on Friday, a Between Seasons bonus episode. And after I, after I stopped talking to you, lovely people, I'm going to go away and listen to it so I can feed back to Chris and me and let him know my final thoughts. But yeah. So this, this is a viable means of writing and a viable way of
01:28:16
Speaker
creating a manuscript and getting it out there. I mean, you said there was a little bit of serendipity involved in getting the contact from Chris, Chris Gregory, you said, right? Yeah. But more broadly, do you think it's an avenue that writers could be exploring a little bit more these days?
01:28:34
Speaker
Well, it's really accessible because since the dawn of podcast platforms, you've got Apple Podcasts, Amazon, you've got all of these different platforms that can support
01:28:46
Speaker
podcasts and audio dramas. And it's, it's not that expensive to do. And it's great for sort of building an audience and building interest in something. So, I mean, I've got these books that are in submission, nobody would have heard anything about them. And but this audio drama has introduced everyone to the world, it's introducing the characters, and
01:29:14
Speaker
I've, you know, there are people who are interested now and I know that. And, you know, even though the books haven't been published and there's something very isolating about being a novelist, I think before anything goes out or before a book goes out, you are on your own. You're the only one who knows about it and you're not getting anything back. And it takes an enormous amount of energy as a writer to keep putting energy into a project when you're not getting anything back. And with audio drama, what I've found is that you're putting something out there
01:29:44
Speaker
And it's getting feedback from an audience. It's getting people listening to it. And that boosts your energy. I guess you're working as a team, aren't you? It's not just you. You're working with, well, I mean, it's a full cast, isn't it? You've got a group of actors. So can you tell us a little bit about the nuts and bolts of production, how it comes together? Because it looks like it sounds great. I mean, the quality is good. The production values sounds fantastic. So tell us, how does it all come together?
01:30:14
Speaker
Thank you very much. First off, you're writing the script. The script when you're doing an audio drama, when you're writing a book, the words are the product. When you're writing an audio drama, the words are your base. And then you've got a lot of work to do before you've got a product. And everything else sits on top of the script. So you get your script, then you've got to do casting.
01:30:42
Speaker
And that is a lot of fun. You get a selection of actors, put the scripts out, they send recordings back, you have a nice little listen to all of their voices. You see if any of them have actually got it right. It's a lot of fun doing that. And also, it's actually, it's also, nothing is gonna make you question your skill as a writer, like hearing 20 people say the same lines over and over again.
01:31:12
Speaker
And you're sort of sitting there cringing. Are you like, can I carry you guys around with me when I'm writing out a manuscript, just so I can hear how it sounds? Exactly. It will take forever, but it will it will probably produce good quality. But yeah, I mean, like you're listening to these people and then you're and you're cringing and then suddenly there's a voice and you're like, oh, it's them. Them, they are the character and it all falls into place. You must get chills.
01:31:42
Speaker
Oh, it's so weird. And the first time that it happened, I mean, it's when you've got your book and it's in your head and you're on your own with it. And then suddenly you hear people using the names of characters that have so far only been in your head and a tiny handful of people who have read this manuscript.
01:32:00
Speaker
And suddenly these characters outside your head, you're hearing their voices outside your head for the first time, and it's really weird. And then there's a moment after probably a couple of episodes, for me, I don't know when it really happened, when you start writing with those voices in your head, with those actors and the way they perform. Yeah, so they bring themselves to the characters. That's such a gift. You start off
01:32:29
Speaker
in splendid isolation, then it's more of a collaboration, isn't it? Because they become part of the character, so they're informing what you're writing. It's cyclical. Exactly. And they will bring wonderful things to your lines. They'll do unexpected things. They'll make you laugh, and they'll twist stuff. They'll do great things. And one of the things, writing collaboratively, it's important to trust each other.
01:32:58
Speaker
And if you're working with great actors, which I do, I'm really lucky in the cast and we've got a big cast and all of them are fantastic. And you got to trust they are, they're professionals. They've studied this. They know what they're doing, you know, let, and you can't dictate to these people because they know they will bring good stuff to the role and
01:33:25
Speaker
the best thing that you can do is explain the characters, explain to them what the character is like and what their relationships are like to the other characters. So one of the things that I do, one of the parts of the process is that, yes, okay, so you found your voice, you found your actor, then you've got to communicate who that actor is playing properly. So they've got the right voice, who are they? And I do a little five to 10 minute video
01:33:54
Speaker
me just explaining the character like this is who you are this is what you've what's happened to you so far if they go into the novels sometimes I give them an idea of where their character is going you know so they can sort of put themselves in the context of you know this bigger picture and not only does that help them
01:34:15
Speaker
understand who they're playing but it also helps them like these actors they're coming into a project it could be a one-off but by explaining to them how this all fits into a bigger picture it helps them to get invested in the project because they know about it and they know that there's passion and they know that there's more and so yeah part of the process for me is always
01:34:37
Speaker
finding ways to support the actors. And all of this has been made in lockdown. Well, it's a perfect medium, isn't it, for a digital age? You don't have to be in the same room together even once, I suppose. No, you don't. And one of the ways, I mean, obviously finding a way to direct an actor
01:34:57
Speaker
That's what these videos do. But then what we get back is normally a recording, they do each line three or more times with slightly different angle, like ways of saying the same line. And then what I do is I go through and I listen to their delivery and I say, okay, well, I like takes two and four, or I like takes one and two, maybe three. And then I send it to Chris and he stitches it all together.
01:35:25
Speaker
But then that becomes part of the sort of at a distance direction, I guess. So how does author, novelist, Emily, switch into radio play or screen? Yeah, radio play writing mode. So there must be differences in terms of style and technique when writing for
01:35:49
Speaker
an audio drama than there are when you're writing a novel manuscript. So how do you switch between the two? What did you have to learn? Well, OK, so it's all with audio drama. You can approach it differently depending on the style of the story that you're telling.
01:36:06
Speaker
So some people will have a narrator who fills in the gaps, and then you'll have patches of script between the characters, and then you'll have an narrator again. Some people will have a prologue that is read by one thing, and then it will go into the script. With me, I'm quite a cinematic. I visualize cinematically when I'm writing. So it's all very clear to me in my mind what's going on.
01:36:35
Speaker
as a result, the deck's legacy is written like a movie, I guess. It's just dialogue straight up. There's no sort of descriptive bits that would be doing the same thing as a bit of description in a novel. It is all dialogue. And that means that everything needs to lean on what the characters are saying. And if the character doesn't say it, it doesn't exist to the listener.
01:37:02
Speaker
But you can't be really heavy handed with it. You know, you can't you can't say, oh, look, you know, they opened the door. You know, you have to do this. I think you should try that once. This makes us laugh. See what Chris says. Emily, your writing has really gone downhill with this episode. Luckily, he can do he can do the the door opening sound, you know, sit in the corner going,
01:37:32
Speaker
okay well actually we did sound effects are brilliant fun and they actually like a lot of what you're describing in the description that that happens between dialogue when you're writing a novel is things like where a person is what they're doing you know what's what's sort of happening in the background but a lot of that can be done in sound so the sound of a door opening and closing we have an ongoing joke with the Dex legacy that
01:38:01
Speaker
A lot of the action happens in Nathaniel's office, which is a library. And when they're in the library, they're drinking tea. So we've got the sound of spoons staring teacups. And so there's this ongoing joke that for a high sci-fi show, an awful lot of the action happens in a library drinking tea.
01:38:24
Speaker
which is sort of typical of me and I guess a British production. But yeah, the sound effects are really... Quite right too. Yeah, quite right. Absolutely. Tea is universal. And yeah, so like at the weekend, this episode coming out on Friday, there's a bit of violence. And we need to have this, this isn't much of a spoiler, but we need to have the sound of somebody's neck being broken.
01:38:51
Speaker
Okay, so you go on freesound.org and type in neck being broken and shock her. Nobody's recorded someone's neck being broken. That would be horrific. So then you have to find interesting ways to make that sound. And we were, we ended up breaking a carrot and pulling the head off a pepper.
01:39:18
Speaker
and layering those sounds so the carrot you get this sort of squeaky sound before the snap which is like a pop and when you're pulling the top out of a pepper it's got more of a sort of like um lick like there's a there's a
01:39:33
Speaker
schlocky schlocky sort of sound. This is real foley art. This is real. I was just gonna ask you if you've seen a film called barbarians or berberian sound studio because yeah, Chris is constantly referring to that. Yeah. Yeah.
01:39:49
Speaker
Because that has got, I mean, the way the ways in people are stabbed and killed in that is just like a big marrow and they're just breaking off. I just absolutely love that. I mean, it's incredibly sad film, but really, really interesting onto, you know, the special effects on foley. Yeah, it's a lot of vegetables in the making of the movie seems to be the best on your CV. If you're if you're a vegetable, you can get a job as any kind of sound effect.
01:40:17
Speaker
Yeah, basically, yeah, I can do carrot. Yeah, so yeah, it's a fun process. And, yeah, we had this really funny conversation on WhatsApp trying to work out what vegetables to use. And, you know, what made it you haven't made it to aubergine yet, then.
01:40:40
Speaker
Aubergine, what would you do with an aubergine? What kind of sound effect would that be? Well, you're clearly too innocent to go down that road. So we'll move on from that. I don't know what you're talking about. Aubergine could be a cork leg falling off. That's the best I can do.
01:41:04
Speaker
It could make it because it's got a nice shiny surface. You could get a good squeaking sound on the side of a no machine. I reckon. Yeah, that's actually a good point. Yeah. Sounding like Frankie Howard now.
01:41:17
Speaker
Hey look, all suggestions gratefully received. Just look, next time you're in the supermarket, you can just browse the vegetable aisle and think, you'll be thinking, hmm, what can I use in my next episode of my audio drama? Lolo Rosso. And this is where real art is created. Lolo Rosso lettuce, that's one I want to see. I'll be listening out for that one. Yeah, Cavallonero. What are you going to do with the Cavallonero? Grapes.
01:41:48
Speaker
Oh, great. You must have used grapes already. No, actually, I popped out. That's got to be a grape, hasn't it? It's got to be a grape. Yeah. Technically, someone's eye has already popped out. Off cam. Yeah. All right. Previously on on decks.
01:42:13
Speaker
A lychee being shelled perfectly. Oh, that's a good one. Oh, yeah, that's good for her eyes as well. Do you get to eat afterwards? Well, I knew that Chris, after destroying multiple vegetables in Aid of Friday's episode, I know he made a he made a good I think he made lentil curry. And it all went into the curry. Okay. Yeah, I'd be I'd be getting told off for eating them all.
01:42:41
Speaker
art as food and food as art. Yep, absolutely. Yep, I'll credit the carrot. So let's move on from the vegetables. Sure.
Social Media and Writing
01:42:53
Speaker
Also the social media officer for British Science Fiction Association. So what's going on with the BSFA at the moment? I think it's an organisation that
01:43:06
Speaker
I would think at least some of our listeners will be aware of, not all of them will be members. So can you tell us a little bit about the association? What are the advantages of joining it? What's going on with the association at the moment? And what role do you play as social media officer?
01:43:25
Speaker
Right, okay, so the BSFA, British Science Fiction Association, is a sort of organization, it's a voluntary organization run by sort of a selection of a group of volunteers. And it's, I think it's the oldest sci-fi association in the UK. And when you're a member, you get all sorts of benefits. One of which is you get four publications
01:43:52
Speaker
whenever on release, every time a new publication goes live, you get focus, BSFA focus, which is the magazine of people, writers contribute sort of their process, like articles about their process, how they write different types of sci-fi, all of these things. You get the BSFA review, where people, you know, where it's reviewing books,
01:44:21
Speaker
you get Vector, which is a great publication. It's sort of more on the analytical side of things and they do a theme every few months and they like really great sort of analysis and sort of dives into different aspects of sci-fi.
01:44:43
Speaker
And then you also get a fission, which is the BSFA short story anthology publication that goes out once a year. So it's
01:44:55
Speaker
four of like each of those I think um the review comes out every month um focus comes out I think quarterly and vector is quarterly and yeah fission is annually so you get those which is um I think you know pretty good it is that is a lot yes um our our counselors are very busy and editors are very busy people and
01:45:22
Speaker
There's a lot there about, there's an organisation on the front of, we have the writing groups called orbit, the orbit groups. So if you want to join a writing group or, you know, there's those all up and down the country, you can sort of get in touch and see if there's space in one of those groups and then you can join them.
01:45:48
Speaker
It's also the home of the BSFA Awards, which are nationally recognized science fiction literary awards. So that is also excellent. If you are a member of the BSFA, you get to vote in the awards and you get to nominate and vote for the winners. And yeah, it's a solid award and nationally recognized.
01:46:17
Speaker
Yeah, great reasons to be part of the part of the BSFA, really. So how do you become the social media officer? Well, I do quite a lot on social media for myself and I've got a bit of a following and I sort of I'm all over the place there. I, you know, I don't I don't shut up on social. I'm just I'm always I'm always there. And the chair of the BSFA, Alan Stroud,
01:46:44
Speaker
basically invited me to be social media officer. Actually, Alan wrote the theme music for the Dex Legacy. And that was an accident. Okay, so there's a bit of a side note there. I put out a thing on social saying, hey, we've got this podcast, we'd really like some theme music.
01:47:06
Speaker
anyone up for doing that. And Alan got in touch and said, yeah, sure, I'd love to I'd love to do that. And I had no idea who Alan was really at this point. And I didn't know he was the chair of the British Science Fiction Association until I got an email with the with the until we'd already decided that we loved his theme music. And then we got the file of it via email and and the signature was, you know,
01:47:34
Speaker
Dr. Alan Stroud, chair of the British Science Fiction Association, and I was like, oh, okay. So yeah, we've sort of, we got to know each other through that and he appreciated my work on social and invited me into the role.
01:47:51
Speaker
And the rest was history. But I think that's a really important story, Angel, on the use of social media, particularly for writers and creators of... Well, I don't want to mean creators as in, oh, look, I'm the comedy stuff. I just mean literature, I suppose.
01:48:08
Speaker
There's so much like on the writing hashtag, the writing community on Twitter where it's just absolute nonsense and you join to follow people and it's like, what would your character eat on a Sunday? And I just cannot bear it. Yeah, we see a lot of that. What's your favorite dog in sci fi? It's not useful. No, the best way to network is to have meaningful interactions with people. And that doesn't mean spamming social media with
01:48:36
Speaker
bullshit about what your character, you know, what would you, what, why did you choose this as your character? It's so disingenuous. And I don't believe anybody believes it, you know, when they're, when they're just fishing for those kind of likes, or I don't even know how the algorithm actually works so that it helps you. But you know, having something a request, like you said, like who wants to do this, and it leads to something and it's a proper networking opportunity that leads to a furthering, you know, which is so much more important. So really nice
01:49:05
Speaker
I guess it filters out the people. Well, yeah, it filters out the people aren't so serious about it. But I think some of them are serious about it. And they think this is all I have to do is it's a war of attrition is just throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. And maybe there is an element of that that works. But for me, it's a turn off, you know, it really is, especially with my
01:49:25
Speaker
with my writing Twitter profile, if I start to get them, I just unfollow the people. I don't care if my follow ratios or whatever go down, but I don't want my timeline clogged with that. I want to know when the new book is released or something else is going on. I don't want to know what 300 random people have chosen to write about dogs, you know. Can everybody read each other's things though? This is the joke, those things, the questions that go out there, they are entirely to promote engagement.
01:49:54
Speaker
and therefore generate follows and all the rest of it. I don't know if anybody actually, if they say, what would your main character eat on a Sunday? If I do answer those questions, and it's normally only because I've got something to say and I fancy it.
01:50:10
Speaker
every now and again, I do. But I never read what anybody else is writing. I don't I don't care what everybody else's character would eat on a Sunday. I just you know, if I've got an answer to it, I'm just like, yeah, mine does this, you know. But I understand why there's that that that sort of compulsion to do that. Because, you know, we've touched on this in the podcast today, you are in isolation, you're writing, you know, you mentioned when somebody else mentioned your characters, how rewarding that is. So it is also of
01:50:38
Speaker
also this checking in, you know, if somebody engages with you on something that's so personal to you. But I do think it's about relevance and, you know, oh, yeah, there's definitely a side to social media that's useful and a side that's somewhat cathartic, I guess, and a side that's kind of like, I can't see the writing community as a big support group. It really is a bunch of people who are weird.
01:51:07
Speaker
to societal levels, actually like this part of the writing community side of Twitter is the nicest place on Twitter. I think it's very rare that you get bitchiness or open hostility happening in the community. Most people are there to be nice and to support each other, which is lovely. And yeah, like most of my people, I mean, every now and again, you come across the old weirdo, but then there's the wonderful thing called the block button.
01:51:37
Speaker
Exactly. You're a big fan of the block button, aren't you Bean? Yeah, well, it brings great joy, the block or the ignore button. I really hate using it on the forums on the Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles, you know, this podcast, the home of this podcast, just because
01:51:56
Speaker
it, you can have a thread. And it's such an old fashioned way to consume content, to consume opinions and stuff is on an old fashioned forum. But it's I really, really love to love to do it that way. But you get this sort of, you know, this chronology of opinions, points or whatever, to response to a question. But then there's people quoting something you've blocked. And so you have to go in and unblock it and stuff. Whereas on Twitter, it's just like, okay, you're a dick. I don't want to listen to you. You know,
01:52:26
Speaker
There's recently been some drama about this guy who's been saying, oh, I follow and I promote women. Sorry, I promote writers, but all he's doing is promoting. They're all women, and the women are now starting to share the DMs he's been sending, and they've been very, very dodgy. It just seems- It wasn't Ed Wilson, was it?
01:52:49
Speaker
No, no. Sorry, Ed. You better be careful before you get cease and desist. It was somebody who says they're doing something, but they're not. It's not even an author. It's such an easy place to be disingenuous, I suppose. It's the easiest place in the world to be disingenuous, and I suppose that's why. Well, way back when we had Stephen Palmer on,
01:53:15
Speaker
one piece of work that he was working on was investigating, I guess, the effects of social media. And because it's such an embryonic media platform, still, I don't think we're going to see the full effects until it's about 30 years old. And you can see the effects of literally a lifetime of using it. What happens to someone's behavior or someone's brain after they've been consuming something for 30 years in this way?
01:53:45
Speaker
whether it's for good or bad. And my personal opinion is it probably slants towards the bad, especially if you are inclined towards that, let's be charitable and say disingenuous personality type that you see on social media. So it's nice that you've cultivated and inhabited a nice little corner of social media that doesn't sustain itself on mutual venom
01:54:09
Speaker
I find it very draining. People often say, oh, I find social media very draining. I've got to take a break from social media. And I have to be very careful because it can be very easily. As soon as there's drama and you're involved in drama, it is exhausting. And I find it, yeah, because it's, you never know what somebody's going to say. When you respond, you don't know how someone's going to
01:54:35
Speaker
receive it, you know, it can be twisted. I had one thing where what I said was taken out of context. And the person like, you know, quote tweets, like took a screenshot of it and then claimed that I'd said something like what I'd said was in context to something completely different. And you don't know how the algorithm works in that context. You don't know how the algorithm is, if it's
01:54:59
Speaker
if it's able to direct people towards the thing that is going to cause the most controversy. Yeah. It's not well understood. It's very nerve wracking sometimes. And you don't know when these things like if they're so basically, I try not to engage in the drama. And I try to keep myself out of it. I try not to engage in political things. I have certain stances that if somebody, you know, on certain subjects, if somebody
01:55:26
Speaker
So for instance, anyone who's anti LGBTQ, anyone who's, you know, a Trump supporter, really, I generally find those people like, you know, inhabit all of the things that I find offensive in the world. You know, if anyone's sexist, you know, I, and racist, so racist, sexist, ableist, anti LGBTQ, those people, you know, won't, I won't have any time of day for those, I'll boot them straight off.
01:55:55
Speaker
other people, they have a three strike policy, generally. And if they're suspect, or if they're rude, or if they say something that is offensive, that's a strike. And some things are two strikes in one, and they're gone. And then they get their carrot broken. Exactly. But I think also it's a case of
01:56:19
Speaker
of picking your we're not picking your fights so much as I sometimes what not so much anymore, but I used to find myself about to reply to something which might be about Margot or Trump or whatever. And just think, I don't know this person. I don't care. It's only because I happen to have scrolled past it that I'm caring about it. And a lot of people, especially I think this tends to be a lot of older members on our on the Science Fiction Fantasy Chronicles website.
01:56:47
Speaker
There's not a phobia about Twitter, but quite a dislike about it. And I get the impression there's a lot of fear of, oh, I have to be careful, like you were talking about needing a break and stuff.
01:57:02
Speaker
And I always say I've never got into any spats. I mean, I've only been on Twitter for about five or six years, I think, but I've never got into any spats. I've never experienced that. And the subjects I follow, one of them is Star Wars, which is possibly the most toxic subject. Yeah.
01:57:20
Speaker
And I just see people hating so much Star Wars content, and it never even bothers me. What does bother me is when, like you've just mentioned, somebody takes something out of context, and it's a pylon. And not, I mean, obviously, the pylon is toxic, and I hate that. But what I mean is the person who is then the author of that tweet that has been taken out of context, then feels they have to make amends or justify something. And I think
01:57:48
Speaker
There was a brilliant quote I saw on a tweet about writing today, which was, writing about potential problems or problematic issues doesn't make you problematic. It means you're writing about them. And there is a tendency for people to accuse some other people of racism or homophobia or whatever it might be, just because they're writing and exploring that in their fiction.
01:58:12
Speaker
And the author then justifies, or not justifies, but feels they have to come back and say, no, I'm not. And it's this fear of, oh, my career, the success of my career. I was going to say the success of my career is dependent on whether Twitter likes me or not. And I just think, are you writing to be successful? Are you writing because you have to? Because obviously,
01:58:36
Speaker
we want to write to be successful, but I think a lot of us write because it's a compulsion. And to then start thinking about, oh, I have to be careful about the Twitter crowd is just... It's counterproductive. Yeah, it is. But most people, if you do throw an accusation towards most people, and most people are...
01:58:54
Speaker
reasonable, they, they will take it to heart and they'll really, you know, they'll examine themselves and they'll examine their actions and their conscience. Yeah, absolutely. Unjustifiably in many instances. I think it's feedback. It's the accessibility of feedback, direct feedback to the author. And it's so low resolution, isn't it? It's like, I mean, previously, in previous years, you had to write a letter.
01:59:20
Speaker
You know, you had to be passionate enough about the offence to get your letter, you know, your paper out in your pen and frame a green pen. Yeah. And then go and post it and pay for a stamp. And now you can just add the author and, you know, and dump on them. I'm going to take it all the way back to Less Hand of Darkness, because it's when Jane Lee and Estravan are on the ice.
01:59:47
Speaker
And they get to know each, that's when they get to truly know each other. When all of the noise and all of the other nonsense is shut out. And they see each other in a really high resolution, as a really high resolution image of another person. And that's when they get to know each other and they're able to come together and reconcile.
02:00:09
Speaker
That's the antithesis of a lot of what social media is about and why it seems to be antithetical to a reconciliation in that respect. And you can only arrive at that reconciliation in doing what gently and it's drive and do, which is journey across the desert together. Yeah. I mean, I think that when people meet me in person, they're in no way surprised about how I am because I'm very genuine on social and weirdly.
02:00:38
Speaker
when I meet people who I've been interacting with for a long time, they very rarely surprise me. And they're not a different person. And you get these posts on Twitter, one of those, the other ones that are quite common, saying, are you the same person on social media as you are in real life? And most people, I think, say yes.
02:01:02
Speaker
Mostly because acting is hard, I hire actors. Why would you do that for free? Also, why would I think I'm a horrible person? I should pretend to be nice on social and then people will like
The Light Anthology and Conclusion
02:01:17
Speaker
me. If you're a horrible person and you understand the need to project a more likeable personality, why aren't you doing that in real life and being nicer genuinely?
02:01:31
Speaker
It's weird, it's a weird, I guess it's like a mirror for yourself, isn't it? You're posting these things and then you're like, well, wait a minute, is that me? Or is it what I want people to think of me or? Yeah, there is that. How much complexity can you get over in a tweet anyway?
02:01:51
Speaker
Oh, that's another thing. It's great for editing skills. Yeah, there is that. Hey, talking of editing, before we go, because I realise we're running low on time now, I wanted to talk about the light anthology, which is hot off the press. As of today, I believe the light anthology published by Twisted Fate, it features one of your stories. Could you tell us a little bit about that, please?
02:02:19
Speaker
Sure. So my story in The Light Anthology, which features stories by Adrian Tchaikovsky and Peter McClain. So I'm in super good company, could not be more delighted by that. And my story is called Cerebra and the Dragon. And
02:02:36
Speaker
It's about a spaceship. I did actually write a story with a spaceship in it. So, you know, that qualifies me as sci-fi, I think. And also, but it has a dragon on board. Oh, double whammy. It's about a dragon on a spaceship. I can hear the clicks. Yeah, catching. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I can think six people off the top of my head on Crohn's who would love that story.
02:03:06
Speaker
I think it's one of my better efforts, I think, on the storytelling front. I'm a bit of a fan of this story. Everyone who's read it has said it's great. I can say with reasonable authority that you might enjoy it. I'm sure we will. Is there a thread running through the anthology? Is there a theme that ties everything together?
02:03:30
Speaker
Um, so it's very much a sort of, um, light and dark thing again, like left-handed topics to what we're talking about today. Exactly. So the previous anthology that twisted fate released was called darkness. And so this one is light. And the idea is because all of the proceeds go to mind the mental health charity, which is a, um, it's a cause very close to my heart. I wrote a piece for them way back in like.
02:03:58
Speaker
many years ago after I lost my father and they didn't have much on there about grief. And so I wrote a piece about dealing with my grief after my dad died. And so that was many years ago. And so when Twisted Fate, we're doing this anthology, it's a firm mind. I was like, well, yes, obviously I want to be involved. And a lot of the pieces are just about dealing with light in darkness.
02:04:28
Speaker
And I find that lovely, the sort of, yeah, as I say, previous one was called Darkness. This is light. It's about dealing with, it's about finding, yeah.
02:04:39
Speaker
I'm basically repeating myself. Finding the light in the dark situations, yes. Well, that's marvellous. So that's The Light Anthology. It's published by Twisted Fate. I suppose it's out of all your usual book outlets for your dream stories with Adrian Tchaikovsky, Peter McLean, and of course, Emily Inkpen. Emily, is there anything else you wanted to talk about before we sign off today? No, I'm just doing a sort of run in my brain, OK?
02:05:08
Speaker
Next episode of The Dex Legacy is coming out on this Friday. I don't know when is this? Which will probably be last Friday by the time this comes out, but okay. There we go. So there is a new episode of The Dex Legacy that is live at the moment. It's an in-between episode. If you go, definitely if you listen to that, like, subscribe, do all of the things.
02:05:32
Speaker
visit the website. We've got a merch shop. So, you know, if you like what you hear, you can buy t-shirts. It's a lot of fun. And yeah, buy this anthology. It's great. Buy the anthology. It's great. You heard it here first. Emily, thanks so much for joining us. It's been a fantastic conversation. We've had a lot of fun. It's been really instructive, informative, entertaining the whole lot. I hope you've enjoyed it.
02:06:00
Speaker
I had a blast. Yeah. Thank you very much for having me. You're very welcome. As usual, I've learned a load of things, so I'm grateful. Not least how to make a sound of somebody's neck breaking with the contents of your vegetable drawer. Yep. Next interview we do, there will be a line of carrots in front of both of us. Oh, those carrots should be nervous. Yeah.
02:06:25
Speaker
Right, Emily, it's been great having you on. Thanks ever so much. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye bye.
02:06:47
Speaker
This month's episode of Crocs Cops was brought to you by Dan Jones and Christopher Bean, and our special guest Emily Inkpin. Additional content was provided by Damaris Brown, Brian Sexton and Jay Starper. Special thanks to Brian Turner and all the staff at Crocs, and thanks to you for listening. Don't forget to join the world's largest science fiction and fantasy community for free at sffchronicles.com. And if you enjoy our podcast, please do like, review and subscribe.
02:07:17
Speaker
Join us next month when we'll be joined by the author Alison Littlewood and join us in front of the fire for a collection of Christmas ghosts and stories.