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00:00:01
Humanity Part 6 - Jessica Brewer
89 Plays3 years ago
Jessica Brewer, an executive pastry chef with an immense knowledge and background in the art, opens up about how to satisfy clients, communicating with those in the industry, and working on family life while pursuing a genuine passion.
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Transcript
Introduction to Chef Jessica Brewer
00:00:02
Speaker
On today's episode, we talk with Chef Jessica Brewer about her time as an executive pastry chef, where she started, and what personal life looks like outside the kitchen.
The Value of Work Across Industries
00:00:14
Speaker
No job was too little of a job for anybody.
00:00:17
Speaker
Like, something that I had heard, I mean, this is just something that's said a lot, but when people are like, oh, are we going to pay these people as much as we pay people to flip burgers?
00:00:28
Speaker
Or something.
00:00:28
Speaker
And it's really condescending because especially even coming from fast food, like, were we doing like the elbow deep culinary work?
00:00:38
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No, not necessarily.
00:00:40
Speaker
But it was still honest and difficult work.
00:00:44
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Humanity Scudu.
00:00:48
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This week, our guest is none other than renowned Santa Fe chef, Jessica Brewer.
00:00:54
Speaker
Hello, Jessica.
00:00:55
Speaker
Hey.
00:00:56
Speaker
How are you?
00:00:57
Speaker
Good.
00:00:58
Speaker
How are you?
00:00:58
Speaker
I'm fantastic.
00:00:59
Speaker
It's been a good evening and been looking forward to this conversation.
00:01:03
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So what I want to know first and foremost is, how's your night?
Life as an Executive Pastry Chef
00:01:11
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My night's been good.
00:01:12
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I've had an interesting day, such as holiday week for the restaurant industry in general.
00:01:19
Speaker
It's crazy.
00:01:20
Speaker
I think, honestly, the biggest issue is trying to drive to work and get there alive.
00:01:25
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because of the way everyone drives.
00:01:27
Speaker
Do you think it's a Santa Fe thing or like a holiday thing or a combination of both?
00:01:32
Speaker
I feel like it's a Santa Fe thing.
00:01:35
Speaker
I feel like it's exponentially worse here than anywhere else I've ever been.
00:01:39
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Like there's always like traffic that's back to back, but I've really never been anywhere where pedestrians will step out in front of a moving vehicle.
00:01:47
Speaker
Oh God.
00:01:48
Speaker
You haven't lived in Sacramento.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:52
Speaker
People are less reckless in Sacramento than they are in Santa Fe.
00:01:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:01:56
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Well in Sacramento, at least like, well, not at least, but there's a lot of ticketing for jaywalking.
00:02:02
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They're actually pretty intense about that.
00:02:03
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Oh, they actually like buckle down on that.
00:02:06
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:02:06
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When I was in high school, I had several friends, like we dart across the street and then.
00:02:11
Speaker
You got tickets.
00:02:13
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:02:14
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Wow.
00:02:15
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Or parents called depending on how old you were.
00:02:18
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but they really, they do that.
00:02:20
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So when I was here and like people would take off in front of the street, I'm like, what is going on?
00:02:24
Speaker
You guys do this here?
00:02:25
Speaker
Technically illegal, but the cops simply don't pursue it ever.
00:02:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:29
Speaker
There are bigger, more important bridges to burn here than that.
00:02:34
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Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
00:02:37
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Yeah.
00:02:39
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Okay.
00:02:40
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So what I want to begin with this evening is I want to know a little bit more about your industry.
00:02:45
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What it is that you do, what you got going on, because as I understand it, you are a pastry chef.
00:02:53
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And not even just a pastry chef.
00:02:55
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You're like, what's a step up above the pastry chef?
00:03:00
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Executive pastry chef is the top of our category.
00:03:05
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Above us is like, I don't know, actually this could like depend on who you ask, but technically in the hierarchy, there's like pastry is separated from savory.
00:03:16
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So you can have an executive chef and they are in charge of one side and executive pastry is in charge of the other.
00:03:22
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And sometimes those areas of,
00:03:26
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you know, authority can be separated.
00:03:28
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Like sometimes you'll get like the cold station will be under pastry and it just depends on what restaurant you work for and how they decide to split those responsibilities up.
00:03:38
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Sure.
00:03:39
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So.
00:03:40
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Okay.
00:03:41
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Above me at this point is like as executive pastry chef is the owner of the restaurant.
00:03:46
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Okay.
00:03:47
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I was going to say God, like I'm like, you're literally second in command to like the earth, but you also have a boss.
00:03:54
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Yes.
00:03:55
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But the restaurant that I'm at now, at least I still will take a final, uh, I get like a final okay from the executive chef because some things kind of have to make sense with each other.
00:04:06
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Like the menus have to interact with each other the right way.
00:04:08
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It just depends on where you were at.
00:04:10
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So like, I'll be like, Oh, okay.
00:04:12
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Are you okay with sending this as a final thing?
00:04:15
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And then we bring it to the owner and they give the ultimate okay.
00:04:19
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So we get complete freedom, but that freedom can't get kind of crazy because they'll,
00:04:25
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bring you right back to where they want you to be.
00:04:26
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Okay.
00:04:27
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So what I would want to know is when you, you have this level of freedom, do you ever get like this wild hair and you just decide, I want to make like a wild
Creative Experiments in Pastry
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pastry.
00:04:37
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I want to make something that like looks insane or tastes insane.
00:04:40
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Or like, I want to just sort of go off the deep end and just do something nuts.
00:04:43
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But you know, because of your, your skill level, your talent, your experience, you could do something kind of nuts and get away with it.
00:04:50
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Oh yeah.
00:04:51
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So often.
00:04:54
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So I was the executive pastry chef at Paloma for several years prior to going to the compound.
00:05:00
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And Paloma is an upscale Mexican restaurant.
00:05:04
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So things, not that things were like, there was never any kind of like stranglehold on things particularly, but there was always the upfront idea that things had to remain in like the culture and technique and execution of kind of what you were doing.
00:05:20
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So if it's upscale Mexican, I would never make creme brulee because that is French.
00:05:26
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And there's no way you can twist or turn that without it being ultimately French because that's what it is.
00:05:31
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But there's other ways that you can get around that where you could do like crema catalana or matias or something that was similar to that.
00:05:40
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So I would get like a wild hair all the time.
00:05:42
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And my boss at that time where he would just say, because he didn't want to degrade me or make me feel bad about what I was doing or where my mind was going.
00:05:52
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He would just say, I love that idea, but it's not us.
00:05:56
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And I'd be like, yes, chef, heard.
00:05:58
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I understand completely what that means.
00:06:00
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Sure.
00:06:00
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So now at the compound, which is where I'm at now, it's all...
00:06:05
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European influenced and American influenced.
00:06:08
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So like, kind of feel like I can do at that point, it's balls to the wall.
00:06:13
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Like I could really do anything, right?
00:06:15
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Like where's the limitation here in this description?
00:06:18
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So I don't know.
00:06:19
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I have, you know, given my new menu for the winter to the owner and the chef, and they're totally into it.
00:06:26
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That includes foie gras ice cream.
00:06:29
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And that I feel is like kind of crazy.
00:06:31
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compared to the things that I've been known to do and what I've been doing for years.
00:06:35
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But like, it sounds fucking wild.
00:06:38
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People will probably like it.
00:06:38
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They'll probably read it.
00:06:39
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And they're like, what the fuck is that?
00:06:42
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That sounds ridiculous.
00:06:43
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I would pay $15 to see what the hell she's trying to do.
00:06:47
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And then they'd probably like it.
00:06:49
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Yeah.
00:06:49
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I think there's a lot to be said about some sort of like, I mean, novelty in general, but also when you get people who are familiar with a restaurant or certain menu items, you know, people, creatures of habit and you walk in someplace and suddenly something a little bit more bat shit shows up on the menu and you're kind of like, I need to know.
00:07:10
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I need to, you know, like it might not even be good.
00:07:13
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And I'm not going to say that like your food isn't good, but like to, it might not be too, like not be appealing to a majority of people.
00:07:19
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The masses tastes might not look at this and go, Ooh, this sounds good.
00:07:23
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But suddenly, you know, some people might try it and go, wait a second.
00:07:26
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Just because it doesn't sound good doesn't mean it isn't.
00:07:28
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You never know what you might want.
00:07:30
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So do you like experimenting for the sake of like, I hope people like this?
00:07:36
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Or do you sometimes just say, I just want to make something quality be damned?
00:07:39
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I mean, obviously you want the quality to be good.
00:07:41
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Right.
00:07:43
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But you know what I'm saying?
00:07:43
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Like, do you ever just want to just like make something just so ridiculous just because you're like, I need to know.
00:07:50
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Sometimes I do things just to see how people react.
00:07:54
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Oh, it's like a social experiment.
00:07:55
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It's like a huge gamble.
00:07:57
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So for example, I did, um, wine and chili festival is a massive event in Santa Fe.
00:08:05
Speaker
And, um, maybe one day Albuquerque joins in on it.
00:08:09
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I'm not sure the limitations or why sometimes that isn't all inclusive, but there's like, there's a lot of restaurants in Santa Fe.
00:08:17
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So I think it'd be like a, a too big of a scale for wine and chili to expand.
00:08:22
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But with that being said, Wine and Chili's Fiesta does like events all week.
00:08:29
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And I did the guest luncheon and I did it the year prior to it.
00:08:34
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And for this one that I did recently last year, I was experimenting with mixing savory and sweet flavors.
00:08:42
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And I was like, what about mole?
00:08:43
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This is like the classic part of Mexico.
00:08:46
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This is not something that would typically be found in a dessert.
00:08:49
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So how can we make this make sense?
00:08:51
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And I remember several people and I had conversations about how people would probably not approach mole mixed with dessert in like a way that would be acceptable.
00:09:04
Speaker
And I thought about it and I was like, well, I'll make all 125 people who paid like, I don't know, $200 a ticket for this event, my own Guinea pig.
00:09:16
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And I did a chocolate mole dessert and they fucking lost it.
00:09:21
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They loved it.
00:09:22
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And people came up to me through that whole event afterwards.
00:09:24
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And they were like, this is the best dessert I've ever had.
00:09:27
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Oh my God.
00:09:28
Speaker
These flavors were so strange, but they all worked.
00:09:30
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And it's like,
00:09:31
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You know when you're eating something and it's like weird and you're like, what is that?
00:09:35
Speaker
So you keep eating it.
00:09:36
Speaker
But like on the flip side, when you like it versus trying to figure out what it is, but you're like, oh, this is something I've never had.
00:09:43
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And it's something weird.
00:09:44
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So sometimes it works out, but sometimes it doesn't.
Lessons from Dessert Failures
00:09:49
Speaker
I guess to be continued.
00:09:50
Speaker
Honestly, have you ever had something that you tried?
00:09:54
Speaker
You were so proud of and it just flopped like even like,
00:09:58
Speaker
And to know if it flops, I mean, is it something that you taste and you go, Oh, I'm not sure if I'm into this, but other people might still be, or have you tried something that you thought, Oh man, I'm, I love this.
00:10:08
Speaker
And then you, you put it in the public and just, uh, it's been like where I like it.
00:10:13
Speaker
And I think it's something that's interesting, not, and it's nothing that's ever been crazy is the thing that I put out that is like strange and weird gets a lot more attention than the stuff that I think
00:10:26
Speaker
just tastes great.
00:10:27
Speaker
So I had like this chocolate cheesecake I made last fall season and it had, it was all gluten free and it had like a pepita and dried cherry crust and like everything was very juicy and very rich.
00:10:42
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And I had made several of them and they were really pretty too, because chocolate is so forgiving.
00:10:48
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when you're decorating it in the cooling process.
00:10:51
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So I felt like the presentation that I had made was really pretty and almost no one bought it.
00:10:56
Speaker
That's a bummer.
00:10:58
Speaker
I don't know what happened because I was like, it was delicious.
00:11:00
Speaker
It was juicy and yummy.
00:11:02
Speaker
It's cheesecake and it didn't grab the attention of other people.
00:11:06
Speaker
I remember coming into work on a Monday that we were closed and I still had like six pieces, which is, you know, a third or yeah, a third of the entire thing.
00:11:16
Speaker
pie and I was like, really?
00:11:17
Speaker
For three days?
00:11:18
Speaker
Because we can't sell it after that.
00:11:20
Speaker
You can't sell stuff that's longer than 48 hours unless you're disgusting.
00:11:24
Speaker
Unless you're disgusting.
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah, you can't do that.
00:11:28
Speaker
Well, what if you open up yourself up to be a disgusting chef?
00:11:31
Speaker
A disgusting, like what if you modify your business acumen to- As being nasty, chef.
00:11:37
Speaker
I mean, because you know how they throw those businesses out in like- Well, some places do that.
00:11:42
Speaker
Right.
00:11:42
Speaker
Like in Ohio, they're like- It blows me away.
00:11:44
Speaker
The restaurant that like, that blows you away as in like, there's restaurants that have weird- In my mind, I'm thinking of those places where like, they purposefully treat you bad.
00:11:53
Speaker
You know, like you go and like, you know, they, you order something and they call you names and then, you know, treat you like shit at your table.
00:11:59
Speaker
Oh, like dicks.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:01
Speaker
That's exactly it.
00:12:01
Speaker
Have you ever been to there?
00:12:03
Speaker
No, I've never been.
00:12:05
Speaker
I'm curious.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:07
Speaker
I've thought about it too, because I thought about how many line cooks would be very successful as soldiers.
00:12:14
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Because they're just fed up with people.
00:12:15
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Because they're just speaking their mind where it's like, I think you're an idiot.
00:12:19
Speaker
Sure.
00:12:20
Speaker
But sure.
00:12:20
Speaker
Or like anyone that orders something medium well, oh, you've like set yourself up.
00:12:26
Speaker
You've already ruined it.
00:12:28
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:12:30
Speaker
Um, so, okay.
00:12:32
Speaker
So if, if, if the, the food comes out and you make this delicious looking cheesecake and just nobody's eaten it, do you look at it and you say, is it not presented well enough or was like the flavor profile too specific for tastes or like, what is it that helps you sort of, uh, assess what, what to do next time?
00:12:50
Speaker
It can be a combination of things.
00:12:52
Speaker
Usually if something doesn't sell, it's, it's not about the guest at all.
00:12:57
Speaker
It's really about what something you've done.
00:13:00
Speaker
So you can still make something well and it be with good ingredients and done perfectly.
00:13:07
Speaker
And it just won't appeal to the masses.
00:13:09
Speaker
So at that point you look at, okay, so what are these other dessert specials or items that we've had that have been successful that have similar notes to this?
00:13:21
Speaker
And what are the commonalities and the differences between these things so that the next thing we produce is more fruitful?
00:13:28
Speaker
You know, like for example, if,
00:13:30
Speaker
if it's the fact that cheesecake itself is not selling well, no matter how it's prepared or presented, then in that case, we're going to know, okay, it's not the cheesecake.
00:13:41
Speaker
It's, you know, welcome Pluto.
00:13:45
Speaker
It's not the chocolate or it's not this.
00:13:47
Speaker
It's the fact that it's cheesecake.
00:13:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:49
Speaker
And maybe the people that are in the area just don't like cheesecake.
00:13:52
Speaker
It's not in the season.
00:13:54
Speaker
It's not in the trend.
00:13:55
Speaker
It's not whatever.
00:13:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:57
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:13:58
Speaker
And that's a give and take too, because I know like a majority of chefs I know don't like cheesecake because they think that the sour and the sweet is kind of weird.
00:14:07
Speaker
How do you feel about cheesecake?
00:14:09
Speaker
I love cheesecake.
00:14:09
Speaker
I love cheesecake too.
00:14:10
Speaker
I also just don't like sweets.
00:14:12
Speaker
So I love the blend of savory and sweet and sour and all of these things matter when you're eating them.
00:14:19
Speaker
So it has to have a balance.
00:14:20
Speaker
So if you don't get the sourness from the cheesecake,
00:14:22
Speaker
Like cream cheese, where are you getting it?
00:14:25
Speaker
Because it has to be incorporated.
00:14:26
Speaker
So like, are you putting creme fresh on top of something you're doing or sour cream, ice cream, or what are you doing here to implement that flavor that's going to give the umami that matters to make something that you've made different and rememberable?
00:14:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:41
Speaker
So you say you don't like sweet.
00:14:44
Speaker
Now, obviously you have to, to a degree, taste your food as you're making it to make sure it's not like, but you wouldn't go out of your way to eat sweet pastries.
00:14:53
Speaker
You're more into savory.
00:14:54
Speaker
No.
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:56
Speaker
I love savory pastries, but I will not.
00:14:59
Speaker
I never order dessert.
00:15:00
Speaker
And there's some desserts I like desserts.
00:15:03
Speaker
Like I like ice cream.
00:15:05
Speaker
in gelato or sorbet depends.
00:15:08
Speaker
It's like so specific, but do you like sort of like muted flavors that are, cause I'm, I'm a chocolate and peanut butter guys and that doesn't sound like it's up your alley.
00:15:17
Speaker
Are you like doing like pistachio?
00:15:20
Speaker
Salty and sweet.
00:15:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:21
Speaker
Perfect.
00:15:22
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:23
Speaker
Cause I mean, I drench mine small amounts.
00:15:26
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:26
Speaker
I could eat a whole bowl.
00:15:27
Speaker
It's terrible.
00:15:28
Speaker
I'm trying to like not do that.
00:15:29
Speaker
But you know, I, when I was a kid, it was just vanilla ice cream with chocolate syrup on top covered in honey roasted peanuts.
00:15:35
Speaker
And it was my favorite thing in the planet.
00:15:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:38
Speaker
But also I suppose there's going to be different flavor profiles that compliment the whole thing.
00:15:42
Speaker
So it's not exclusively sweet now.
00:15:44
Speaker
Right.
00:15:45
Speaker
So, okay.
00:15:46
Speaker
So sweets are sort of off the table then as a whole.
00:15:49
Speaker
I mean, you're, how do you feel about dark chocolate?
00:15:52
Speaker
I like dark chocolate.
00:15:53
Speaker
You know, it's funny.
00:15:54
Speaker
is that I have been making toffee for the last two hours.
00:15:58
Speaker
And I was thinking about this and like putting dark chocolate on top.
00:16:02
Speaker
And I thought to myself, well, because this is for a sweets box that I do every once in a while for holiday seasons.
00:16:09
Speaker
And I just happen to have one for Christmas.
00:16:12
Speaker
And I put dark chocolate on it.
00:16:13
Speaker
And I was like, what if people don't like this?
00:16:15
Speaker
Or like something like thinking about kids are mostly the people that don't like it.
00:16:19
Speaker
Because to me, dark chocolate tastes like chocolate.
00:16:22
Speaker
And milk chocolate tastes like heavily sweetened chocolate.
00:16:26
Speaker
Very sweet chocolate.
00:16:26
Speaker
Sure.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:27
Speaker
It doesn't have like the important notes because it's hidden with like all this other shit.
00:16:32
Speaker
So then I was like, should I put dark chocolate?
00:16:35
Speaker
And then I sprinkled it.
00:16:35
Speaker
I was like, I'm going to fuck.
00:16:37
Speaker
Like this is real chocolate.
00:16:38
Speaker
You're buying a real dessert.
00:16:40
Speaker
These people have paid a lot of money for these boxes too, where I'm like, they're going to want chocolate.
00:16:45
Speaker
And like thinking about this debate between several types of chocolates.
00:16:49
Speaker
As far as I'm concerned, there's no debate.
00:16:51
Speaker
It's dark chocolate or whatever.
00:16:53
Speaker
And, you know, it's interesting, too, because as a kid, somebody handed me dark chocolate.
00:16:58
Speaker
I wasn't like a stranger.
00:16:58
Speaker
It was one of my teachers.
00:17:01
Speaker
A teacher in probably like second grade handed us all like pieces of, I think, milk chocolate and dark chocolate.
00:17:08
Speaker
And one thing that they instructed me to do was take this dark chocolate and don't chew it.
00:17:12
Speaker
Don't eat it.
00:17:13
Speaker
Like let it sit on your tongue and sort of melt and take the flavor in.
00:17:16
Speaker
And as a kid who loved sweets, I remember doing this and just feeling like, Oh, this is the greatest sensation I've had with something in my mouth.
00:17:23
Speaker
And from that point on, it activates a lot of different things because there's acids and it's like,
00:17:28
Speaker
tannic some of the chocolates depending on where they're from and that's like chocolate is so complex it's insane like they can be grown in different areas and produce they can be like roasted under certain circumstances and it makes a difference and you can taste all of these things and like some of them activate like saliva production and you're like okay if there's too much of this
00:17:49
Speaker
it's not good for this type of dessert because we're going to want to tone that back.
00:17:53
Speaker
We don't want people drooling on themselves.
00:17:55
Speaker
We just want people drool a little bit.
00:17:57
Speaker
Just a little bit.
00:17:57
Speaker
Yeah, just enough to activate the chocolate.
00:17:59
Speaker
Just a little bit.
00:17:59
Speaker
Chocolate activation.
00:18:00
Speaker
I'm so into that.
00:18:03
Speaker
So you also sort of say that with your pastries, and I've seen tons of pictures of it because the way you design your food, it doesn't look like, oh, I just want to eat that.
00:18:14
Speaker
It looks beautiful.
00:18:16
Speaker
You are making things that are
00:18:18
Speaker
magazine worthy.
00:18:19
Speaker
These are, you know, Ansel Adams could come in.
00:18:20
Speaker
I guess he, I think he takes like photographs of like nature, but whatever he would come in and look at pictures and take these pictures of your beautiful looking foods.
00:18:28
Speaker
And they look, they look good.
00:18:30
Speaker
They make you feel like, God, I just need to eat this now.
00:18:34
Speaker
Thank you.
00:18:35
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:18:35
Speaker
Well, I mean, food ostensibly is art, you know, art is crafted because also what you said earlier is, you know,
00:18:43
Speaker
you were thinking about making these different chocolates and flavor profiles, but then you're like, no way, dark chocolate, that's what we're doing.
00:18:49
Speaker
And it's like that old David Bowie thing, don't play to the audience.
00:18:52
Speaker
You know, what is your art and how do you decide to make it?
00:18:55
Speaker
Right.
00:18:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:56
Speaker
That to me, I mean, it sounds really exciting for you as the chef to say, you know, you obviously want to appeal to people, but you want to appeal to people with what you've fully decided they get to enjoy.
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
Trusting Creative Instincts
00:19:10
Speaker
So like with people buying like a product from a chef specifically, especially when it comes to like what I'm doing, which is like a sweets box where you know from watching me what I produce.
00:19:23
Speaker
And if you had special requests and stuff like that, like it could be accommodated or something like that.
00:19:27
Speaker
But in reality, it's like
00:19:29
Speaker
When you give full trust to the artist, no matter who it is, whether that be a painter or a sculptor or a tattoo artist or a hairstylist, when you give them the actual genuine full control of something, you're actually getting the best of your money's work because you're getting that artist's
00:19:46
Speaker
best work put forward and like what they're actually talented at doing rather than like being controlling of like, no, I only like this.
00:19:54
Speaker
And I only like this.
00:19:55
Speaker
And I've had plenty of people that are like that.
00:19:57
Speaker
Like weddings are the biggest thing with that because you have a massive amount of people that have different opinions on everything.
00:20:07
Speaker
And so like I had a wedding in particular that I did a few months ago where it was several hundred pieces of
00:20:15
Speaker
dessert and stuff like that.
00:20:17
Speaker
And some of them are like salty, like blondies have salt in them.
00:20:23
Speaker
And, you know, certain things that the bride and the groom had requested were more salty than they were sweet.
00:20:28
Speaker
And they were all requested dark chocolate.
00:20:31
Speaker
And so many people, like there were so many leftover.
00:20:34
Speaker
And that was like the biggest complaint from people.
00:20:36
Speaker
They're like, oh, well, it was like salty and sweet.
00:20:38
Speaker
And I was like, well, this is cooking.
00:20:40
Speaker
I don't know what else to say.
00:20:42
Speaker
Like, this is what I do.
00:20:43
Speaker
And like, this isn't like a bakery or something like that.
00:20:47
Speaker
I'm an actual pastry chef and we do, you know, whatever the client wants.
00:20:51
Speaker
So if that's miso caramel brownies, that's going to be salty and sweet.
00:20:56
Speaker
And it's presented exactly as it should be.
00:21:00
Speaker
And there's always that like, you know, criticism and stuff like that.
00:21:03
Speaker
And I like struggle with that because I want to be very matter of fact all the time where I'm like, well, I don't know what to tell you.
00:21:08
Speaker
Like, those are people that are like,
00:21:11
Speaker
I only eat my burgers medium well and anything less than that's so gross.
00:21:14
Speaker
And I'm like, well, that's not a good idea to me.
00:21:19
Speaker
That's your prerogative.
00:21:21
Speaker
And this is what we offer and you chose us.
00:21:24
Speaker
So I don't know what to say.
00:21:25
Speaker
That's what's interesting is if somebody goes to you on purpose and actually I think feels like, Hey, we want to request something specialty, but we want to, you know, that's like saying we really need Andy Warhol to,
00:21:39
Speaker
to make a bunch of prints of like downtown show flyers.
00:21:44
Speaker
Like you're not getting the artists to do with their art.
00:21:47
Speaker
You're asking them to like hand you the cookie cutter.
00:21:51
Speaker
Right.
00:21:52
Speaker
Or some other weird, like it's hard for us to interpret, especially when talking to people that don't work in the industry and they, or they just like, don't like, they don't enjoy food on the same level that we do.
00:22:04
Speaker
Sure.
00:22:04
Speaker
But it's hard for us to interpret
00:22:07
Speaker
what someone means when they are not sure how to explain themselves.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine that would be difficult because I mean, when you're in a position of like knowledge and authority on something, it's very easy to look at everything and go, Oh, I've got this knowledge, you know, I know what's going on.
00:22:23
Speaker
And most people don't simply put, you know, I also have a very limited degree of, you know, what I want or what I know that I like, but also I think learning how to communicate that would be my responsibility.
00:22:36
Speaker
Now with that, is there anything that you ever feel like you can do to help try to like clarify that for people?
00:22:44
Speaker
Cause obviously you don't want to make them like look or feel dumb, but you want to, you know, when you're in a place of like business, especially you really want to help accommodate to people and educate them is really sort of the goal.
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:22:55
Speaker
What does that look like for you when trying to help sort of like provide people with the information with enough information for them to make what they feel is like an informed decision?
00:23:06
Speaker
I think it's really based on like the way that you ask questions.
00:23:09
Speaker
You can recognize pretty quickly if somebody doesn't, not that they don't know what they're talking about because that's like really condescending.
00:23:16
Speaker
It's more that they know what they like.
00:23:18
Speaker
They just don't know.
00:23:19
Speaker
And it's intimidating when you're sitting with someone who to you is like a professional being like, am I using the right terms?
00:23:26
Speaker
Am I using this?
00:23:27
Speaker
And it's like a lot of pressure.
00:23:29
Speaker
So it's our job to be able to recognize some of that, of being like the best way to,
00:23:35
Speaker
kind of make that work is asking the right questions on our side where it's like, what are some things that you do like?
00:23:44
Speaker
What are some flavor profiles that you really don't like?
00:23:47
Speaker
And things like that.
00:23:48
Speaker
And then it's our job to come up with something that kind of bridges the gap between them.
00:23:53
Speaker
These people are always spending a decent amount of money.
00:23:56
Speaker
So they're willing to have the conversation where they can over explain themselves.
00:23:59
Speaker
Like really communication is like the most important for this because the worst part is when someone pays several thousand dollars for something and you've given them something that they didn't particularly want, but you also didn't ask the important questions to ensure that the guest had the good time.
00:24:17
Speaker
Sure.
00:24:17
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense.
00:24:18
Speaker
Now, is this something that you simply learned through experience or did you have somebody that really helped sort of instill that design into you?
00:24:26
Speaker
Is that something that you sort of just picked up?
00:24:28
Speaker
I think I got it from my own experience, honestly, because you kind of fly in blindly and I haven't had any guests complain about anything, but I have had enough experience where I'm
00:24:43
Speaker
I had felt walking away from it that there's something that I could have tweaked had I asked maybe another question.
00:24:49
Speaker
Sometimes that falls into chocolate.
00:24:52
Speaker
If people don't like dark chocolate, I'm going to assume that this is more appropriate because it's like real chocolate.
00:24:58
Speaker
And then sometimes where they're like, oh, this is like too intense for me where I'm like, fuck, I should have asked if they liked milk chocolate or dark chocolate and we could have
00:25:07
Speaker
made this a better experience for the guest.
00:25:09
Speaker
Although they weren't like necessarily complaining, there's always that little area where you could have made it better.
00:25:15
Speaker
And then you learn after doing this hundreds of times, the correct way to approach people and how to ask them in a way that they feel comfortable too.
00:25:23
Speaker
Cause it's like intimidating, right?
00:25:26
Speaker
Making them feel comfortable with making their boundaries for what they expect for the money they're spending.
00:25:31
Speaker
And they deserve that.
00:25:32
Speaker
Honestly, they're paying for it.
00:25:35
Speaker
So it's like,
00:25:36
Speaker
Tell me what you want and we'll do it.
00:25:38
Speaker
And that is how everyone should be.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:40
Speaker
Let's work together to find out what you want.
00:25:43
Speaker
You know, because in the service industry, I also know that like, ultimately my taste is irrelevant.
00:25:49
Speaker
My experience is something I can lend you, but it's not about what I want.
00:25:53
Speaker
It's about what can I do to help you find what you want.
00:25:55
Speaker
Right.
00:25:56
Speaker
Exactly.
00:25:57
Speaker
So, uh, it,
00:25:59
Speaker
would you say the majority of your experience really comes from just being a pastry chef or did you have like any jobs when you were younger?
00:26:06
Speaker
Where did you sort of start off with?
00:26:09
Speaker
I mean, what was your first job?
00:26:11
Speaker
My first job in the culinary industry was in fast food.
00:26:15
Speaker
So I kind of have
00:26:17
Speaker
went all the way from fast food all the way to fine dining.
00:26:21
Speaker
And even that was in kind of a condensed period of time.
00:26:26
Speaker
I started initially at Domino's as just like a CSR answering phones and stuff, made my way to the line, which is, it is a line, but line, you know, cause I'm a chef, but went through there.
00:26:41
Speaker
And then like, there's so much,
00:26:44
Speaker
competitiveness in fast food that it's like almost comical.
00:26:48
Speaker
And I ended up going from Domino's from when I was 17.
00:26:53
Speaker
I went over to Pizza Hut.
00:26:54
Speaker
Ooh, the enemy.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:58
Speaker
And actually I will settle the debate now.
00:27:00
Speaker
Pizza Hut has better pizza.
00:27:03
Speaker
They make their pizza more fresh.
00:27:05
Speaker
They make the dough every day.
00:27:06
Speaker
They literally make it there.
00:27:08
Speaker
And at Domino's, they just get it in a truck.
00:27:11
Speaker
Sure.
00:27:11
Speaker
And they have to count all their toppings in a really specific way.
00:27:14
Speaker
And it's just like Pizza Hut's pizzas are just loaded.
00:27:17
Speaker
Anyway, this is not a Pizza Hut debate.
00:27:19
Speaker
Pizza Hut, yeah, there's no debate.
00:27:20
Speaker
I mean, that's clear as day.
00:27:22
Speaker
Pizza Hut also had the red cups.
00:27:25
Speaker
And the arcade, like little cocktail machines and the little salad bar.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:30
Speaker
And the red hatch roof, like, come on.
00:27:31
Speaker
And they serve beer.
00:27:34
Speaker
What are we arguing about here?
00:27:36
Speaker
Right, yeah.
00:27:37
Speaker
That's great.
00:27:38
Speaker
That's a real family restaurant.
00:27:39
Speaker
That's a real family restaurant.
00:27:41
Speaker
Dad can have something.
00:27:43
Speaker
I can play Gallagher.
00:27:45
Speaker
So, okay.
00:27:47
Speaker
So, also, by starting with the sort of fast food restaurant, do you think that
00:27:55
Speaker
having a spectrum of experience because you're executive pastry chef, you are second in command to the boss, right?
00:28:05
Speaker
But having a spectrum of experience, I think really sort of can help you appreciate sort of what all of food looks like.
00:28:12
Speaker
You're not just saying- It's very humbling.
00:28:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
00:28:16
Speaker
You found something to begin with and worked your way up, but you got to see a lot of it so you can contrast and compare.
00:28:24
Speaker
What do you think some of the best things that you sort of learned along the path to pastry chef were?
00:28:29
Speaker
That no job was too little of a job for anybody.
00:28:34
Speaker
Like something that I had heard.
00:28:36
Speaker
I mean, this is just something that's said a lot, but when people are like, Oh, are we going to pay these people as much as we pay people to flip burgers or something?
00:28:44
Speaker
It's really condescending because especially even coming from fast food, like were we doing like the,
00:28:52
Speaker
Elbow deep culinary work?
00:28:54
Speaker
No, not necessarily, but it was still honest and difficult work.
00:28:59
Speaker
Sure.
00:28:59
Speaker
And a lot of it was still handmade and it took a lot of thought.
00:29:03
Speaker
and stuff like that.
00:29:04
Speaker
And like, it's still timing and it's still stuff.
00:29:07
Speaker
That's honestly a lot more difficult than the people that are saying this kind of shit are capable of doing.
00:29:13
Speaker
Cause how many people per hour are you doing in fast food?
00:29:16
Speaker
And so I can't even imagine the stress of just like people per minute coming through a restaurant because the whole purpose is to do it quickly.
00:29:24
Speaker
You know?
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:26
Speaker
I would imagine that would be really stressful.
00:29:28
Speaker
Do you feel that nowadays, um,
00:29:31
Speaker
I mean, obviously every job has its own stresses, but it sounds like you get to work at more of your own
Challenges of Staying Relevant in Culinary Arts
00:29:36
Speaker
pace.
00:29:36
Speaker
And I'm sure there are plenty of stresses just in general.
00:29:39
Speaker
What, what are some of the hardest parts about the job for you at this point?
00:29:43
Speaker
Like, what do you, what do you look at and you just say, God, you know, this is still on the daily, just like.
00:29:50
Speaker
Difficult.
00:29:51
Speaker
I mean, at this point now it's like hard to remain relative and creative.
00:29:58
Speaker
There's so many ideas.
00:29:59
Speaker
So the culinary industry is always expanding just like technology is or the medical field.
00:30:05
Speaker
And that's why they compare a lot of these areas with each other because they're always just expanding, expanding.
00:30:12
Speaker
There's always a new way to do anything.
00:30:15
Speaker
And even leaving the industry for a couple of years can bring you all the way back.
00:30:19
Speaker
Like if I were to leave now and let's say I didn't have
00:30:24
Speaker
You know, any kind of popularity in media.
00:30:26
Speaker
And I was just like someone that wasn't known.
00:30:30
Speaker
If I were to leave to like, for example, when I had my son, I left for four years and I still cooked minimally, but I was still out of the executive position.
00:30:41
Speaker
I just started all the way back as a line cook.
00:30:43
Speaker
Because that's how quickly the industry expands and how far you get behind.
00:30:49
Speaker
So it's always about watching what peers are doing, watching trends, like what is new, what is different.
00:30:57
Speaker
Life in itself is kind of overwhelming all the time.
00:31:01
Speaker
And so you go to work and you're trying to learn things that when you're in a position of executive, you've never seen before and there isn't someone to teach you.
00:31:11
Speaker
So you have to teach yourself and introduce yourself to these other trends and these other things.
00:31:16
Speaker
And half the shit you do won't be relevant to anything.
00:31:19
Speaker
And you have to kind of hit and miss so many times until you find like a groove.
00:31:24
Speaker
And it's a dangerous place to be because you can come up in your career and be very popular.
00:31:29
Speaker
But if you can't maintain that, you just tank.
00:31:32
Speaker
And then what do you do?
00:31:34
Speaker
I see.
00:31:34
Speaker
So you're sort of having to keep like a novelty going.
00:31:37
Speaker
You're having to keep a trend resetting.
00:31:39
Speaker
You're having, if you, if you get complacent, you're just sort of left behind.
00:31:43
Speaker
And it sucks too, because like artists in general, if you're going through anything in your life, it's really hard to produce.
00:31:50
Speaker
Like your brain is kind of like clouded with a bunch of other stuff.
00:31:53
Speaker
Or if you have like back-to-back events where you're like required to come up with all these things and all this art,
00:32:00
Speaker
And so you kind of vomit it all out and then you're kind of left with nothing.
00:32:05
Speaker
And it's hard for you to come back from that where you can produce something that you're proud of and stand behind.
00:32:10
Speaker
And I feel like 80% of the time, chefs and probably all artists in general hate what they're putting out.
00:32:20
Speaker
It's so rare that you put something forward and you're like, I stand behind this.
00:32:24
Speaker
I love what I've done.
00:32:26
Speaker
This is really good.
00:32:28
Speaker
Or the imposter syndrome of people loving something that you've done.
00:32:32
Speaker
And you're like, this is shit.
00:32:33
Speaker
This is the worst thing I've ever done.
00:32:35
Speaker
You're stupid.
00:32:36
Speaker
I hate this.
00:32:38
Speaker
And I've even made jokes myself where I'm like, I can get a pie from Sam's Club and tell people I made it.
00:32:43
Speaker
And they'll be like, Jess, this is so good.
00:32:46
Speaker
I'm like, no, it's not.
00:32:47
Speaker
I didn't even make this.
00:32:49
Speaker
So it's an endless cycle constantly.
00:32:53
Speaker
Well, I hear this phrase that says, perfect is the enemy of good.
00:32:57
Speaker
And when you're creating art, God, like the only obsession to do it exactly right.
00:33:02
Speaker
Perfecting it.
00:33:04
Speaker
Is perfecting it.
00:33:04
Speaker
And that I think almost outweighs when we've done something that truly is of a good quality and we overthink it to death.
00:33:11
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:33:12
Speaker
And that's what ends up sort of like killing momentum and, you know, I'm trying to think of the right word for it.
00:33:21
Speaker
Sometimes your perseverance, you know, you get squandered because, you know,
00:33:24
Speaker
You obsess so heavily that you just get discouraged to the point of like, I don't want to do this anymore.
00:33:29
Speaker
Has there come a point?
00:33:31
Speaker
And I'm sure for, you know, most people in like any sort of position of like executive power that you've just looked at everything around you and just thought, God, like, can I still do this?
00:33:41
Speaker
Do I want to still do this?
00:33:42
Speaker
Like you're just in the middle of the shit and it's so heavy.
00:33:46
Speaker
You just don't know where to go.
00:33:47
Speaker
What's that been like for you?
00:33:48
Speaker
Very often, actually.
00:33:51
Speaker
And sometimes I feel because I have so many friends in the art community that are not in the culinary.
00:33:56
Speaker
I mean, it's all art, but outside of the food application of art that feel the same exact way.
00:34:04
Speaker
Like, I don't know if you're familiar with Nico Salazar from Meow Wolf.
00:34:09
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:34:09
Speaker
He does Future Fantasy Delight.
00:34:11
Speaker
That's his thing.
00:34:12
Speaker
And he's okay.
00:34:13
Speaker
one of the most incredible artists I've ever met.
00:34:16
Speaker
And I'm fortunate to know him because he's my best friend's brother.
00:34:19
Speaker
So I get to know him on a personal level.
00:34:21
Speaker
And we've had several conversations where it's like, we're having to pump and pump and pump this stuff out where we have like nothing left and we hate everything that we do.
00:34:30
Speaker
And then you get stuck in this cycle of putting something out because you're required to, but you like really hate everything that you're doing.
00:34:38
Speaker
And you don't even know what you want to make.
00:34:41
Speaker
And like, what could be the art that you produce that puts it out there that makes it feel like you've done something worthwhile.
00:34:49
Speaker
And then you start to get very skeptical and then you move to another industry or you start studying shit that you would have never thought.
00:34:57
Speaker
Like I have a backup degree and a lot of people in the culinary industry do where it's like, eventually we're going to have to leave because we're going to run out of ideas.
00:35:07
Speaker
We're going to run out of self-esteem.
00:35:10
Speaker
We're going to run out of energy at that point too.
00:35:14
Speaker
So multiple, multiple times, so many times I have thought about how what I'm doing is shit.
00:35:22
Speaker
And I hate it.
00:35:23
Speaker
And I don't belong here.
00:35:24
Speaker
And I want to do something else.
00:35:26
Speaker
It's not fulfilling sometimes.
00:35:28
Speaker
And your mental headspace plays a lot into that.
00:35:31
Speaker
Whenever you're struggling in your mental health life, in your personal life, it reflects on your work a lot.
00:35:38
Speaker
And some people, like myself personally, I feel like I do to the public, at least in their response, the best work I do is at the worst points of my personal life.
00:35:50
Speaker
Oh, interesting.
00:35:50
Speaker
That's where the creativity kind of comes out because that's the coping.
00:35:56
Speaker
The art is the coping.
Finding Inspiration Through Struggles
00:35:58
Speaker
And so we put stuff out on a whim out of pure passion and anger and sadness or whatever the feeling is that we have.
00:36:08
Speaker
And people fucking love it.
00:36:09
Speaker
And they're like, Oh, I love this.
00:36:10
Speaker
And you're like, what?
00:36:14
Speaker
I hate my job.
00:36:15
Speaker
I hate myself.
00:36:17
Speaker
And they, and it gives you a whole other meaning.
00:36:19
Speaker
And then at the same time, anytime that you go and get inspired by doing something different, whether that be like a,
00:36:27
Speaker
you know, a catering in my industry or a random personal project for someone who's personally paid you or something like that.
00:36:38
Speaker
You can get re-inspired really easily.
00:36:40
Speaker
And it's like this toxic, I feel like being an artist is the worst thing that you could do.
00:36:44
Speaker
Cause you're in this endless cycle of hating yourself and everything you do.
00:36:48
Speaker
But then at times you're like, I'm so good at what I do.
00:36:51
Speaker
I'm literally the best.
00:36:52
Speaker
And then you're like, Oh, I hate this.
00:36:54
Speaker
I hate this.
00:36:54
Speaker
I hate this.
00:36:55
Speaker
And it just years pass and you don't even know what's going on.
00:36:59
Speaker
Sure.
00:37:00
Speaker
So when you're, when you're in these moments of just, I mean like self deprecating, like wallowed sorrows, like what is it that sort of like,
00:37:11
Speaker
helps you even out?
00:37:12
Speaker
How do you refocus?
00:37:13
Speaker
Is it people?
00:37:15
Speaker
Is it making something different?
00:37:17
Speaker
Is it trying something new?
00:37:18
Speaker
Is it stepping away?
00:37:19
Speaker
What is it for you that when those moments crop up, get you back on track?
00:37:27
Speaker
Usually, a lot of it has to do with something that I want, that I'm doing myself.
00:37:34
Speaker
I'll indulge in a different technique that is unfamiliar to me because I want to explore because I need something to feel fulfilled or I need this itch in myself to kind of complete something I've never done before or look at something very difficult and being like, this is something I feel like I could never do.
00:37:56
Speaker
And I'm going to do it to prove to myself that I can, or at least learn this new task and new technique and at least be a better artist or chef myself.
00:38:08
Speaker
Like I had made a Pavlava that was super weird with epizote that the Albuquerque journal had posted photos of and did a story about me for.
00:38:17
Speaker
And for me, that was like, I'm sick of this mundane, boring shit of putting cinnamon on everything that I do.
00:38:24
Speaker
because it's like the number one spice for like this region or something.
00:38:29
Speaker
I want to do something that is notably famous to fail at and see how hard I can abuse myself at failing at it until I never do it again.
00:38:39
Speaker
And then like, then it turns into, I have to make this work.
00:38:43
Speaker
I'm better than this.
00:38:44
Speaker
And it's like, like I said, it's an endless fucking cycle of constantly abusing yourself.
00:38:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:51
Speaker
Right.
00:38:52
Speaker
And I've even had other local bakers and stuff who have told me like, you're such a masochist.
00:38:58
Speaker
Like,
00:38:58
Speaker
You'll do all these caterings and all these things and combine.
00:39:02
Speaker
I feel like I'm seeing you put all this work out and I'm like, I'm trying to feel something.
00:39:07
Speaker
This is me attacking myself to feel like I'm getting some work done.
00:39:14
Speaker
And the exhaustion makes you feel like you did it.
00:39:16
Speaker
And then the tasks are over and you've done it.
00:39:18
Speaker
But like gunning for the things that are unreasonable and unrecognizable has brought me back every time.
00:39:26
Speaker
And this isn't even so much for the customer.
00:39:28
Speaker
This is really like a personal vendetta against yourself.
00:39:33
Speaker
It is so rare that chefs do shit for other people.
00:39:37
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:39:38
Speaker
We truly do it for ourselves.
00:39:39
Speaker
This is truly the truest form of art as far as I'm concerned.
00:39:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's incredible.
00:39:46
Speaker
As chefs.
00:39:47
Speaker
And I feel like I can speak for so many of us, too.
00:39:50
Speaker
There's always like one part of the menu, like one item on a menu that is for guests.
00:39:56
Speaker
And we fucking hate it.
00:39:58
Speaker
It is like the one thing that we hate to do that we have to do for the people.
00:40:05
Speaker
Like for me, it was churros.
00:40:08
Speaker
where I can't take it off the menu.
00:40:10
Speaker
Like I could not at Paloma because there would be riots in the streets.
00:40:15
Speaker
No one would come, no one would order desserts.
00:40:17
Speaker
They'd be like, where's the fucking this?
00:40:19
Speaker
Where's this?
00:40:19
Speaker
Where's that?
00:40:20
Speaker
But you hated making them.
00:40:22
Speaker
I hated it.
00:40:23
Speaker
Patashu is so boring.
00:40:24
Speaker
Like this is not culinary school 101, but it's a very basic thing and people love it.
00:40:32
Speaker
And there's ways to like make it creative, but it's so rare.
00:40:36
Speaker
It doesn't feel, I don't feel good when I make these things.
00:40:41
Speaker
I do feel good that other people love it and that they're happy eating it.
00:40:45
Speaker
But for me, I'm like, I can't get more creative with this.
00:40:48
Speaker
I pipe it in a circle.
00:40:49
Speaker
And I'm like, is this different?
00:40:52
Speaker
So how do you find that balance then with you get to make something exciting and then you still have to like make the boring staples?
00:41:00
Speaker
Because obviously when people go to a restaurant, there's going to be expectations of, well, baseline needs have to be met, such as churros.
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:09
Speaker
But then, you know, how much does churros take away from you getting a chance to make your big like, you know, this is I hope somebody orders this so I can go crazy.
00:41:19
Speaker
feel good about myself.
00:41:21
Speaker
Well, that's usually what chefs do with like specials.
00:41:23
Speaker
I mean, we get...
00:41:25
Speaker
a big bonus emotionally every time we swap a seasonal menu because we're doing something different.
00:41:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:41:31
Speaker
And so it can be kind of mundane in the culinary industry because you're kind of doing the same thing every day.
00:41:38
Speaker
It gets overly predictable towards the end of the season.
00:41:41
Speaker
You're kind of burning yourself out because you want something new.
00:41:44
Speaker
But chefs that put out a lot of specials are the people that you could see that are kind of struggling with how they feel inside about the art that they're doing because they need to do something different.
00:41:55
Speaker
Sure.
00:41:55
Speaker
So whenever you see restaurants where they release specials often, this is usually what that is, is that they need something new.
00:42:02
Speaker
They need to kind of scratch this itch.
00:42:05
Speaker
We saw, and it could be something so small.
00:42:07
Speaker
We saw a video about somebody frying something like this.
00:42:11
Speaker
And we're like, this would be so much better if we did it like this.
00:42:13
Speaker
And you're like, how about I put that to the test in like an actual setting and bet.
00:42:21
Speaker
the product that I have in the labor that I've put into it and literally bet it and then watch the numbers rise or fall and see if you were right or wrong.
00:42:29
Speaker
Either way, it feels like we're putting out something much more often than we are.
00:42:34
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:35
Speaker
And that's where we kind of get that scratch.
00:42:38
Speaker
Have you ever like gotten the, the chance to make a chef special and you're like, I cannot wait to do this.
00:42:44
Speaker
And then like one month and you're like, I cannot believe I suggested this.
00:42:47
Speaker
I hate it.
00:42:48
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:42:49
Speaker
There's been tons of times that I've like convinced my boss that this was a good idea.
00:42:54
Speaker
And I'm like, this is so good.
00:42:56
Speaker
People love this.
00:42:57
Speaker
It's all over the place.
00:42:58
Speaker
Like Bon Appetit, like loves cocoa butter spray bullshit.
00:43:02
Speaker
And then I do it and it's no one gives a shit.
00:43:05
Speaker
And I'm like, still trying to defend myself.
00:43:08
Speaker
Cause I'm like, I felt really good about this.
00:43:09
Speaker
And then like no one else liked it.
00:43:12
Speaker
So even with that, like what if you made something that you thought, oh, I can't wait to do this.
00:43:16
Speaker
And then it gets super popular.
00:43:18
Speaker
But then a month and you're like, I never want to make one of these ever again in my life.
00:43:21
Speaker
Oh yeah.
00:43:22
Speaker
All the, my entire, my entire menu last season, like the, it's like a running joke at Paloma about saying guava tart to me.
00:43:33
Speaker
Oh, because there was, this was a random ditch dessert that I had made, you know, we came through COVID and that was really difficult.
00:43:44
Speaker
And when we reopened fully staffed and so many other restaurants feel the same pain,
00:43:49
Speaker
you kind of had to streamline what you had because of what was available to you, not based on product, but based on staff and sometimes also product.
00:44:01
Speaker
Like some of our main puree companies that exist in the U S have failed and they're not around anymore.
00:44:08
Speaker
They were like famous staples that we leaned on for flavor profiles and stuff.
00:44:12
Speaker
They're not there anymore.
00:44:14
Speaker
So then you have to like figure out how to get this stuff way in advance to do it.
00:44:18
Speaker
So you're kind of just like coming up with shit to get it moving.
00:44:21
Speaker
And my guava tart was one of those.
00:44:23
Speaker
It was something that was super simple that I had just randomly thought about.
00:44:28
Speaker
I could mass produce it easily for a very low cost.
00:44:32
Speaker
And I literally had that dessert photographed more than anything I have ever made.
00:44:40
Speaker
And I hate it.
00:44:42
Speaker
I hate that dessert so much.
00:44:46
Speaker
That's your regret.
00:44:48
Speaker
I, yeah, I literally hate it.
00:44:50
Speaker
I like felt not creative.
00:44:51
Speaker
And it was like an argument to take it off the menu because guests complain and this is who we serve.
00:44:58
Speaker
So we're going to take what they say to heart and obviously into consideration.
00:45:02
Speaker
It's a business.
00:45:03
Speaker
We're not here to play with our food for free.
00:45:07
Speaker
We would like some money back from it.
00:45:10
Speaker
So then to be like, I couldn't even change my menu for like an additional three months past the season because of this fucking tart.
00:45:17
Speaker
And churros.
00:45:18
Speaker
So two thirds of this.
00:45:19
Speaker
And the other one was tres leches, which is something I had put back on the menu after COVID because so many people wanted it.
00:45:26
Speaker
So for me, I was like, I feel like I work at like any sort of chain store producing the same low quality cheap dessert because it was not interesting at all.
00:45:41
Speaker
It was just very simple and
00:45:43
Speaker
And those desserts have haunted me forever.
00:45:46
Speaker
And they will.
00:45:47
Speaker
I will never make those again.
00:45:49
Speaker
It's a tragedy to hear, but also it's really funny.
00:45:57
Speaker
And I'm sorry that food has haunted you to some degree, but I suppose like any art, you know, this is kind of any art.
00:46:06
Speaker
Yeah, we'll do that to somebody.
00:46:07
Speaker
But OK, so despite the fact that you are obviously as a pastry chef, you're experienced in, you know, one sort of like specialty line.
Personal Life and Fast Food Preferences
00:46:17
Speaker
But you obviously have a culinary expertise that allows you to make a variety of things all across the world.
00:46:23
Speaker
You could do all kinds of cool stuff any day, anytime, however you wanted.
00:46:27
Speaker
But I'd imagine by the time you get home, you're on your way home and you're like, I'm hungry, but I don't want to make something.
00:46:35
Speaker
Oh, never.
00:46:36
Speaker
So many people, they're like, oh, what do you do?
00:46:39
Speaker
You must make, or they would tell my son.
00:46:42
Speaker
They're like, oh, wow, your mom's a chef.
00:46:44
Speaker
You are so lucky.
00:46:45
Speaker
You must have this or this.
00:46:47
Speaker
And sometimes that's true.
00:46:49
Speaker
I mean, when we cook, Thanksgiving is a showdown and things like that.
00:46:55
Speaker
But in reality, no, I don't want any of that crap.
00:46:58
Speaker
My fridge is full of every condiment you could ever imagine.
00:47:03
Speaker
But when it comes to making a meal, I only buy it fresh that day in a very scaled amount.
00:47:07
Speaker
There's no leftovers.
00:47:08
Speaker
There's no nothing.
00:47:09
Speaker
I just have condiments and drinks.
00:47:11
Speaker
That's it.
00:47:12
Speaker
I'm admittingly a fast food addict.
00:47:18
Speaker
Do you look at fast food now with this discerning eye or do you just sort of love the indulgence of like, it's cheap, it's easy, it's hot, it's fresh and delicious?
00:47:26
Speaker
Hopefully it's fresh.
00:47:27
Speaker
All of it.
00:47:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:28
Speaker
It's also just filthy and disgusting.
00:47:30
Speaker
Like nacho cheese on anything and everything is an option depending on where you're going.
00:47:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:47:37
Speaker
The other day I thought about it and I was like, oh man, I really want some nacho cheese.
00:47:40
Speaker
But it was like in the middle of the afternoon.
00:47:42
Speaker
I was like, I don't want nachos.
00:47:43
Speaker
I don't want this.
00:47:43
Speaker
And I was like, Arby's.
00:47:44
Speaker
Cool.
00:47:45
Speaker
nasty beef and cheddar that sounds delicious and i didn't stop for that at that point but i was i went to baja taco in san february who puts their green chili cheese fries or like beer battered fries covered in nacho cheese and green chili sold dip into some sour cream that's my favorite thing that sounds super good it's a meal i eat very often
00:48:07
Speaker
Okay, perfect.
00:48:09
Speaker
So you have a couple of go-tos and sometimes the indulgence of fast food really is just a really good way to go.
00:48:15
Speaker
Do you ever like when you take a bite, say Taco Bell, you go to Taco Bell?
00:48:19
Speaker
I love Taco Bell is my favorite fast food place.
00:48:22
Speaker
So it's one of my vices.
00:48:23
Speaker
Do you ever just grab like a Doritos Locos taco and just think like, this is the filth that I want.
00:48:31
Speaker
Yes.
00:48:32
Speaker
Every time I eat it, whenever, cause I've made so many types of tacos in my lifetime, like from straight classics to like, this takes 24 hours from start to finish type fine dining, delicious, high quality, organic, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:48:49
Speaker
Tacos.
00:48:50
Speaker
But I get the top, like I'll get like a party pack from Taco Bell and I can clear almost an entire one alone.
00:48:56
Speaker
Oh, heck yeah.
00:48:58
Speaker
This shit is disgusting.
00:49:00
Speaker
Whenever people whine where they're like, Oh God, you know, this person just has ground beef and potato tacos at their house with iceberg lettuce.
00:49:09
Speaker
And I'm like, for sure.
00:49:13
Speaker
It's cheap.
00:49:14
Speaker
It's meant to be its own style of tasty food.
00:49:17
Speaker
You know, and so living in New Mexico, that's something that I've heard from a lot of people because they just go, oh man, you eat Mexican food all the time, right?
00:49:24
Speaker
It's like, well, I mean, it's accessible and it's delicious, but also I love Taco Bell.
00:49:29
Speaker
And they go, why would you get Taco Bell if you live in a city with like thousands of taco options?
00:49:33
Speaker
And it's like, sometimes I want a specific flavor that Taco Bell has.
00:49:37
Speaker
It's not because it's better, but it's because that's what I want.
00:49:40
Speaker
It's in its own little area of something.
00:49:43
Speaker
Like we could have...
00:49:45
Speaker
this style of food, but sometimes we just want the shit of the food.
00:49:50
Speaker
I don't need best of the best for every single meal.
00:49:53
Speaker
It's comforting.
00:49:54
Speaker
It's really comforting.
00:49:55
Speaker
It's junky.
00:49:56
Speaker
It's good.
00:49:57
Speaker
It's got all the things you like feel like,
00:50:00
Speaker
Like you have to take a shower.
00:50:03
Speaker
Right.
00:50:03
Speaker
And sometimes that's a majority of the time.
00:50:05
Speaker
That's what I want.
00:50:07
Speaker
I don't want to feel good about what I eat half the time.
00:50:10
Speaker
I like this stuff and I'm not afraid to be like, I enjoy this.
00:50:14
Speaker
And so many times too, where people ask me, Oh, what do you make for yourself?
00:50:18
Speaker
And I'm like, nothing.
00:50:22
Speaker
I eat a Taco Bell like three times a week.
00:50:24
Speaker
I love that place.
00:50:25
Speaker
It's like cheers to me.
00:50:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:50:27
Speaker
It's very comforting.
00:50:29
Speaker
Jessica's rolling up, better pull out the party pack.
00:50:33
Speaker
Just as it's, I think, important for you to have worked in fast food all the way up through where you're at, I think being able to indulge in a variety of foods, including lower tier whatever, is just as important because it's still food.
00:50:46
Speaker
It still satisfies a certain specific
00:50:49
Speaker
flavor palette that you crave.
00:50:50
Speaker
And like, I don't ever want to dismiss, you know, like somebody says, Hey, go to the cheesecake factory.
00:50:55
Speaker
Hey, somebody go to Taco Bell.
00:50:56
Speaker
They're both great when you're in the mood for whichever one calls.
00:51:00
Speaker
What it is you're looking for.
00:51:02
Speaker
Sometimes you just want junk food.
00:51:04
Speaker
Sometimes.
00:51:04
Speaker
There's times I've argued even that nachos at the gas station, it's nacho cheese and just chips.
00:51:11
Speaker
Or the movie theater where I'm like, this is so nasty.
00:51:15
Speaker
I don't want to know what I'm eating.
00:51:17
Speaker
I just know I'm eating it.
00:51:18
Speaker
I want greasy, buttery popcorn.
00:51:20
Speaker
It's the number one.
00:51:21
Speaker
Oh.
00:51:22
Speaker
They're like hardly even food and they're incredible.
00:51:24
Speaker
I don't know what it is.
00:51:27
Speaker
But every day after high school in Sacramento, my little sister and I had to walk past Jack in the Box, which actually it was a dual Jack in the Box and Taco Bell.
00:51:36
Speaker
So it was amazing.
00:51:37
Speaker
Oh, Jesus.
00:51:38
Speaker
How do you decide?
00:51:38
Speaker
And right next door was an A&W mashed with KFC.
00:51:43
Speaker
So connected these four gods of the fast food community.
00:51:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:49
Speaker
So we would always stop because Jack in the Box tacos were two for a dollar.
00:51:54
Speaker
So we'd go and get hella tacos.
00:51:57
Speaker
And I was like, what is this mash?
00:51:58
Speaker
And I'd look at it and I'm like, I don't want to know.
00:52:01
Speaker
Or the videos where they're like, do you know where that comes from?
00:52:04
Speaker
And I'm like, I literally don't care.
00:52:06
Speaker
It's tasty.
00:52:07
Speaker
I don't know what to say.
00:52:08
Speaker
I can't argue this.
00:52:10
Speaker
It tastes good.
00:52:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:13
Speaker
I'm with you.
00:52:14
Speaker
I think sometimes it's really, it's about the whole of it rather than I'm only allowed to eat like the 20% of good food out there.
00:52:22
Speaker
You know, there's food is food and food is,
00:52:25
Speaker
The idea of it, like capturing so many different flavors, good, bad, whatever.
00:52:31
Speaker
Sometimes you just want what you want.
00:52:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:34
Speaker
And there's a lot of people that share the mindset and the professional community, like Christina Tosi, who is a world famous pastry chef, has made her career off of being addicted to junk food and snack foods and
00:52:51
Speaker
shit food essentially as the rest of the community would see it.
00:52:53
Speaker
And she's always said that it doesn't have to be fancy to be good.
00:53:00
Speaker
Like it doesn't have to be fussy.
00:53:01
Speaker
It doesn't have to be overthought.
00:53:03
Speaker
It doesn't have to be these things.
00:53:04
Speaker
Sometimes you can combine 20 pounds of butter with some powdered sugar and just deck it out in like sprinkles and sauce and things that are awful for you.
00:53:14
Speaker
And it's amazing.
00:53:16
Speaker
And so she does work with the milk bar.
00:53:19
Speaker
If you ever look her up or them up, if you haven't heard of them, all of her stuff is like crazy junk box food, like things smashed together.
00:53:30
Speaker
And they're one of the most famous people for pastries in the country.
00:53:34
Speaker
Oh, that's cool.
00:53:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:53:37
Speaker
Junk box.
00:53:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:39
Speaker
Beautiful.
00:53:41
Speaker
Now.
00:53:42
Speaker
Have you ever thought about, I was watching this show, just I found this yesterday, and it was like this challenge where these people had to go and try to create like, quote unquote, shitty snack food, garbage food, junk food.
00:53:55
Speaker
And the first challenge was like, hey, go in the kitchen and make some homemade Flamin' Hot Cheetos.
00:54:00
Speaker
I just watched this yesterday.
00:54:03
Speaker
And I think that's super fascinating.
00:54:05
Speaker
Yeah, my sister told me about this, and she's super sick right now, and she's like, oh,
00:54:12
Speaker
Netflix queen right now.
00:54:14
Speaker
It's like, oh, you should, have you heard of this show?
00:54:16
Speaker
And I was like, well, I've seen it on my feed and stuff on Netflix, but I usually watch documentaries.
00:54:21
Speaker
So I always go that way.
00:54:23
Speaker
Sure.
00:54:23
Speaker
And I work with food all day, so I don't typically want to do that.
00:54:27
Speaker
That's like the same as...
00:54:30
Speaker
anyone who's like, Oh, well let's make dinner and get together.
00:54:32
Speaker
And I'm like, Oh, let's do my job for free.
00:54:34
Speaker
That sounds awesome.
00:54:35
Speaker
Right.
00:54:36
Speaker
I don't want to do that.
00:54:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:39
Speaker
So I watched the show just that one episode.
00:54:42
Speaker
Cause I fell asleep after that.
00:54:44
Speaker
And I,
00:54:45
Speaker
I was watching the way that they were all coming about it from different angles, too, because you have people from all walks of life in that show, too, where you have like food scientists.
00:54:52
Speaker
Then you have famous pastry chefs.
00:54:55
Speaker
Then you have people that are famous at getting popular for being at home chefs.
00:54:59
Speaker
And like, how do all these things work?
00:55:01
Speaker
And then how would I do it as a professional?
00:55:03
Speaker
And I was like, what the fuck?
00:55:05
Speaker
Like, these are intense.
00:55:07
Speaker
Like, and then I thought, and I was like, how the fuck do you make hot Cheetos?
00:55:10
Speaker
Literally, like, I don't even know.
00:55:12
Speaker
I don't even know how to approach that where I'm like, okay, polenta makes sense.
00:55:17
Speaker
But does it?
00:55:18
Speaker
Right.
00:55:19
Speaker
And everything when everyone was having their stuff pop back at them.
00:55:22
Speaker
And I was like, that makes sense.
00:55:23
Speaker
Like your rule is too high in this.
00:55:25
Speaker
And I'm like, I would not be able to probably successfully pull that off on a show.
00:55:29
Speaker
Yeah, I actually thought it was a really impressive challenge.
00:55:32
Speaker
Yeah, what a neat idea because we take it for granted because it's so mass produced.
00:55:36
Speaker
And, you know, you could go to Taco Bell.
00:55:38
Speaker
It's crap food, but we can't produce the crap food as professionals.
00:55:42
Speaker
So what are we?
00:55:43
Speaker
How do you make Pringles easily?
00:55:45
Speaker
How do you make?
00:55:45
Speaker
Yeah, it was a really interesting idea.
00:55:47
Speaker
And I kind of like a sort of taking something that is seemingly simple and, you know, having to analyze the
00:55:55
Speaker
The genuine complexity of it, you know, a factory that does it for them.
00:55:59
Speaker
But like somebody still had to sort of figure this out in the first place.
00:56:02
Speaker
Right.
00:56:03
Speaker
Where I want to see the recipes now.
00:56:05
Speaker
I thought about even the seasoning.
00:56:08
Speaker
I don't even know how to replicate it.
00:56:10
Speaker
I know that there's a lot of niacin involved in hot Cheetos, which gives you that.
00:56:15
Speaker
tip of the tongue, spicy, tingling flavor, but there's also a lot of acid and like lime flavor.
00:56:21
Speaker
And then where does the cheese come from?
00:56:24
Speaker
I sat there for a while where I was like, I don't even want to mentally think about this because I admit this is something I could not do.
00:56:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:31
Speaker
I feel like I could not.
00:56:32
Speaker
Pretty cool to see.
00:56:34
Speaker
No matter how much you know about food, there's always so much more you simply don't.
00:56:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:39
Speaker
And I think that's actually a really good sort of like sign or maybe even philosophy is to realize that.
00:56:44
Speaker
Well, I don't know if it was Socrates.
00:56:46
Speaker
The more you realize, you know, the more you realize, you know, nothing.
00:56:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:51
Speaker
So it's so humbling.
00:56:53
Speaker
Also, I hope I attributed that to the right person.
00:56:55
Speaker
But it's one of those guys in a toga, you know, doing.
00:56:58
Speaker
Yeah, something I'm trying to think about and I'm like, I know what you're saying, but it's totally true.
00:57:04
Speaker
Yeah, it's good to be humble with that.
00:57:07
Speaker
So even outside of food, then when you come home and you don't want to cook, you don't want to make food, you don't want to be inundated with something you're already doing all day long.
00:57:16
Speaker
Do you have any sort of go-to hobbies or do you watch movies or read books or play games or go running?
00:57:23
Speaker
I don't know.
00:57:24
Speaker
Like, what do you got?
00:57:24
Speaker
What's...
00:57:25
Speaker
I definitely never go outside.
00:57:27
Speaker
I've always told people, if you see me running to run the direction I'm running.
00:57:32
Speaker
Something bad is happening.
00:57:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:35
Speaker
No, I am too tired to run or exercise like that.
00:57:41
Speaker
I play a lot of video games.
00:57:42
Speaker
I'm super introverted.
00:57:44
Speaker
So a majority of the time I like to spend by myself.
00:57:50
Speaker
I'll even like lie to people that love and respect me to be alone.
00:57:55
Speaker
And I, they probably know it.
00:57:58
Speaker
I was going to say they're going to once they listen to this.
00:58:00
Speaker
I know.
00:58:01
Speaker
And a majority of people will be like, oh, I fucking knew it, Jess.
00:58:05
Speaker
I knew it.
00:58:06
Speaker
Confirming the whole thing.
00:58:07
Speaker
I just can't like working in a kitchen.
00:58:09
Speaker
So I have ADHD very bad too.
00:58:14
Speaker
I have serious sensory issues.
00:58:17
Speaker
I majority of the time I cook with gloves on.
00:58:19
Speaker
I can't touch stuff.
00:58:20
Speaker
I like,
00:58:21
Speaker
makes me feel like that limb is dead to me.
00:58:23
Speaker
It sounds really extreme, but it's really how I feel almost all the time.
00:58:28
Speaker
And so I'm in this, I can be a very assertive person and most people find me or describe me to be intimidating and I don't see it.
00:58:36
Speaker
I'm in this figure of authority almost all the time, all week at my job.
00:58:43
Speaker
And I work in a very loud environment.
00:58:45
Speaker
There's oven hoods blaring, there's ovens themselves on, there's, you know,
00:58:50
Speaker
Things sauteing, things frying, things braising and plates crashing and a dishwasher turning on.
00:58:58
Speaker
There's people yelling to get shit from the pass and like other stuff.
00:59:03
Speaker
And it's so loud and overstimulating that I come home.
00:59:07
Speaker
I live by myself and I always will because it's just crazy.
00:59:12
Speaker
decompressing.
00:59:14
Speaker
So I read sometimes when I can like maintain the entertainment to do so just because I feel like I get distracted by things so often or I'll sometimes reread a paragraph like 30 times and gain nothing from it.
00:59:29
Speaker
I love to read, but it's only in like the right setting.
00:59:32
Speaker
But I mean, I'll watch shows even too, but mostly getting lost in playing video games by myself is
00:59:40
Speaker
really how I spend almost all of my downtime or just napping in general, anything quiet, just low energy.
00:59:47
Speaker
Well, after a busy day of being very extroverted, yeah, it's nice to come home and like the complete opposite, get that balance going.
00:59:55
Speaker
Right.
00:59:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:56
Speaker
Constantly too.
00:59:57
Speaker
It's so loud.
00:59:58
Speaker
It's too much.
00:59:59
Speaker
And then even sometimes it's so draining.
01:00:01
Speaker
I don't even have energy to play games, which is the least amount of energy.
01:00:05
Speaker
It's like the most selfish, self-indulgent thing you can do is like turn yourself off and live this other life.
01:00:14
Speaker
And sometimes even that's too exhausting.
01:00:16
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:16
Speaker
You only have enough to exist in wherever you're standing.
01:00:20
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
01:00:21
Speaker
When you play video games, I actually, you know, obviously I'm into video games.
01:00:24
Speaker
I had a couple sort of questions for you.
01:00:28
Speaker
Do you ever play video games and look at food in video games and you either think that looks delicious or I want to make that?
01:00:33
Speaker
Yeah, I do that mostly.
01:00:35
Speaker
I feel like video games don't really like put a lot of focus on food rather than like name what it is.
01:00:43
Speaker
So it kind of limits like the creative ability to recreate something.
01:00:47
Speaker
Because it's like, you know, like Stardew Valley, you have like salmon dinner and like the ingredients for that are salmon, amaranth, and kale.
01:00:58
Speaker
I think kale.
01:00:59
Speaker
I know.
01:00:59
Speaker
I'm going to like fuck this up.
01:01:00
Speaker
Stardew Valley.
01:01:01
Speaker
You're so stupid.
01:01:02
Speaker
It's not that.
01:01:03
Speaker
Boycott the podcast.
01:01:04
Speaker
I can do whatever, you know, that entails.
01:01:08
Speaker
But a lot of that is like anime.
01:01:11
Speaker
Sure.
01:01:12
Speaker
Does a lot of that where I look at it and I'm like,
01:01:15
Speaker
What the hell is that?
01:01:17
Speaker
I could recreate that because it's, it doesn't even have a name.
01:01:21
Speaker
It's just being made in this show and it looks so complex and so different.
01:01:27
Speaker
You could actually recreate it.
01:01:29
Speaker
And there's plenty of YouTube people that do that where they look at,
01:01:35
Speaker
food that was made in a show or a movie or something.
01:01:37
Speaker
And then they create a whole series of them recreating what they think that that means.
01:01:43
Speaker
And it's beautiful and delicious.
01:01:46
Speaker
It's a fun idea for people to sort of take that like one extra step.
01:01:50
Speaker
Zelda Breath of the Wild came out a couple of years back and you can just willy nilly throw shit into a pot and makes hundreds of different types of foods.
01:01:58
Speaker
And people started making like their own written illustrated cookbooks that are like, here's how to make, you know, I don't remember the names of half of these things, but you know, like some sort of like apple truffle steak or whatever it might be.
01:02:09
Speaker
And it's, it's so fun to see people sort of take it to like this extra sort of next level of,
01:02:15
Speaker
You know, it doesn't just look good.
01:02:16
Speaker
Here's how you can actually make something comparable at home.
01:02:19
Speaker
I have thought about making my own YouTube show where I do something like this because during COVID, so many people encouraged me to make a show that was based on scientific reasons as to why we do stuff in the culinary industry, especially baking, which I did for a short period of time, not anything complex.
01:02:38
Speaker
Like I just typed things.
01:02:40
Speaker
novels out on Instagram, but it gained a lot of traction to the point that a media local media producer here had said that they would be willing to record me and produce this if it was something I put more effort into.
01:02:55
Speaker
But I don't know how to edit videos.
01:02:57
Speaker
I don't have time for that.
01:02:58
Speaker
At that point, I was married.
01:03:00
Speaker
I had three children altogether through marriage and biologically that I had to care for.
01:03:06
Speaker
didn't have time or silence to have a giant whiteboard where I could share like scientific theory with people.
01:03:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:14
Speaker
Do you think that's something you'd ever pursue in the future if the opportunity came up?
01:03:18
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
01:03:19
Speaker
There's a way I could like make it kind of make sense and be something I could put forward.
01:03:25
Speaker
That was a benefit to other people that I was also proud of.
01:03:28
Speaker
I would definitely do it.
01:03:29
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:30
Speaker
I like that.
01:03:30
Speaker
I like how that's expressed a benefit to other people that you're proud of.
01:03:33
Speaker
I think it's a really great way to describe
01:03:36
Speaker
what you do.
01:03:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:38
Speaker
That's cool.
01:03:41
Speaker
So Jessica, I've got five questions for you and these questions, very important.
01:03:50
Speaker
Very, very, very important.
01:03:53
Speaker
The first question being Jessica, if you got to recommend to me or anybody else, a favorite book.
01:04:00
Speaker
And I know we discussed that like books,
01:04:02
Speaker
are difficult to read makes it so hard to sit there and focus.
01:04:07
Speaker
But if there's one, you've made it all the way through and you just, you feel like it's something you want to share with the world.
01:04:11
Speaker
What's that book?
01:04:13
Speaker
Oh, that's a hard question.
01:04:18
Speaker
Honestly, I think one of the most intense books I've ever read that I recommended the most to people was push by Sapphire, which is the book that precious is based off of because it's a, um,
01:04:33
Speaker
It's written in a very strange way.
01:04:34
Speaker
It's written as like a diary.
01:04:37
Speaker
And it is focused on a woman who had faced a lot of abuse and trauma in her early years and who at this point was already a mother through incest and abuse.
01:04:50
Speaker
Oh, wow.
01:04:50
Speaker
And she was very uneducated.
01:04:52
Speaker
And you can like read it in the writing style in the beginning part.
01:04:55
Speaker
And you can watch as she becomes educated and experiences things in her life, how it kind of clears itself up and like kind of moves, but it's a very dark and upsetting book.
01:05:06
Speaker
And it was one of the most moving books I ever read where I had to stop a couple of times to cry about it.
01:05:11
Speaker
And it was also, have you ever read Carrie by Stephen King?
01:05:15
Speaker
Oh, like the actual Stephen King novel.
01:05:17
Speaker
When I was a kid, for some weird reason, I don't know why I read Stephen King.
01:05:20
Speaker
That's when I read it too.
01:05:21
Speaker
I was like eight.
01:05:23
Speaker
I had read almost all of Stephen King and Anne Rice's works by the time I was my son's age.
01:05:28
Speaker
Because I was just into reading and my mom was like, oh, you like books?
01:05:33
Speaker
Oh, fucking read all of them.
01:05:34
Speaker
You can read whatever you want that I have.
01:05:36
Speaker
And there were certain ones.
01:05:37
Speaker
I mean, Stephen King's stuff I've read as an adult.
01:05:41
Speaker
I reread it after watching the second
01:05:45
Speaker
movie that they did because I was so disappointed in it.
01:05:49
Speaker
I was like, I have to give myself this refresh by reading the work and then reading it a second time as a grownup where I'm like, this is fucking filthy.
01:06:03
Speaker
Like his language is so nasty.
01:06:05
Speaker
Oh, it's pretty.
01:06:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:06
Speaker
I never thought about this as a kid because I didn't know what he meant.
01:06:10
Speaker
Right.
01:06:11
Speaker
And so Carrie was written in a very strange way too, because it bounced between a lot of different viewpoints.
01:06:20
Speaker
Part of it would be Carrie herself talking about it.
01:06:23
Speaker
Part of it would be a psychologist.
01:06:24
Speaker
Part of it would be newspaper clippings.
01:06:27
Speaker
And it was like one of the most interesting written books because it just the way that it was written and same with push by Sapphire, where it was written in such a strange way that it was drew you in.
01:06:39
Speaker
Push by Sapphire.
01:06:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:41
Speaker
It's a very short read too.
01:06:44
Speaker
Okay.
01:06:45
Speaker
Just a short couple hundred pages.
01:06:47
Speaker
Sounds really worthwhile.
01:06:48
Speaker
But it's so brutal and so intense that like I said, you have to stop to like cry because of how intense it is.
01:06:58
Speaker
And it's such a great book.
01:07:01
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:01
Speaker
That sounds incredible.
01:07:02
Speaker
But it's very, very heavy.
01:07:03
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:04
Speaker
Perfect.
01:07:04
Speaker
All right.
01:07:05
Speaker
So excellent recommendation.
01:07:06
Speaker
I'm excited to look into that at some point.
01:07:08
Speaker
Now...
01:07:10
Speaker
Second on the list, same thing, but with a movie or a TV show.
01:07:15
Speaker
It could be, this can also be kind of a big question, but.
01:07:20
Speaker
I know movies and TV shows.
01:07:22
Speaker
It's like, I feel like I could lean towards like what, something that could be my favorite versus the other, but I'll go on.
01:07:29
Speaker
My favorite movie is Pan's Labyrinth by Guillermo del Toro, who is my favorite director because he has like such this demented, fantastical view of things.
01:07:38
Speaker
And I feel like,
01:07:40
Speaker
I relate to it so much because I see things as being both beautiful and demented most of the time.
01:07:47
Speaker
So Pan's Labyrinth is like the best because it's like an adult fairy tale of like, what could we imagine these horrors that could exist in the real world?
01:07:56
Speaker
And it's anything Guillermo del Toro thinks about.
01:07:59
Speaker
Like I just watched his Pinocchio.
01:08:02
Speaker
Have you seen that?
01:08:04
Speaker
Not yet.
01:08:04
Speaker
I saw that it popped up on, I think Netflix, but yeah, I've heard it's great.
01:08:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:09
Speaker
It just, just came out like December 9th.
01:08:12
Speaker
Okay.
01:08:12
Speaker
Really?
01:08:12
Speaker
So super recently now.
01:08:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:08:15
Speaker
Very recently.
01:08:17
Speaker
And it's great because it like challenges all these ideas of like fascism and like war and how that affects children.
01:08:25
Speaker
Oh, great.
01:08:25
Speaker
And stuff.
01:08:26
Speaker
And when I first watched it, I was concerned as like a parent,
01:08:32
Speaker
not concerned for like what my child was seeing because this is real life shit.
01:08:36
Speaker
And I don't like, I shelter my son from certain things, but I will not shelter him from like the realism of the world.
01:08:43
Speaker
Sure.
01:08:43
Speaker
At least.
01:08:44
Speaker
Good.
01:08:44
Speaker
And so watching it, it was like a very brutal approach to something that was very real that I knew from like a child's eyes.
01:08:52
Speaker
They would see this as something that was real and has happened or could happen.
01:08:58
Speaker
But it wasn't gory enough that I would like block my kid.
01:09:01
Speaker
It's rated PG because I looked it up because initially there's like a lot of Nazi theme in it, not essentially from like.
01:09:10
Speaker
we like Nazis, we're on the Nazi side or something, but like explaining that during that timeframe that this is, these countries were Nazi controlled and how some of those beliefs harmed and delegated children.
01:09:24
Speaker
So it's like, I really recommend that you watch it.
01:09:26
Speaker
It was very, it's very Guillermo del Toro too.
01:09:29
Speaker
Cause like the characters are very fantastical and strange.
01:09:33
Speaker
And there's like the air of mystery and darkness and the tones of,
01:09:37
Speaker
of the visuals are very dark and shadow like and like, but it was intense and it was a wonderful, wonderful movie.
01:09:46
Speaker
Sure.
01:09:46
Speaker
No, that sounds fantastic.
01:09:47
Speaker
And you know, I don't think I ever really sat down and consider the implications of Pinocchio being set in like Germany in the early 1900s and sort of what that would have been like to just, you know, small German town and, you know, if it took place during the war and that's actually a really incredible sort of perspective.
01:10:04
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds fantastic.
01:10:06
Speaker
I actually paused it like partway through to look up how parents would react because I would have imagined for me when I was watching it and I paused where I was like, what are the Karens saying about some of these themes?
01:10:19
Speaker
Because they're very realistic, but they are parts of our history.
01:10:24
Speaker
And instead of kind of dubbing them down or making them more sugarcoated, it was presented how it was where children in Italy were
01:10:33
Speaker
were actually taken from a young age to be trained in these camps to die for their country.
01:10:40
Speaker
And they were taught that this was fair and this was just, and that this was what their life was accounted to, which when you're telling children that, especially as a parent,
01:10:49
Speaker
This is not what they're meant to do.
01:10:51
Speaker
These are adult themes and adult arguments and we're, you know, some countries during certain parts and even now still to this day, their lives were being put up for what kind of shit.
01:11:05
Speaker
So it was really insane to see it because there's actually a lot of death in that movie too.
01:11:09
Speaker
And death is a part of life and it's hard conversations to have with your children.
01:11:15
Speaker
But this made it like so approachable in like this very heavy yet lighthearted way that I had to stop to look at what it was rated.
01:11:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:25
Speaker
I was like, oh my, I'm watching it with my son.
01:11:27
Speaker
And I'm like, are you okay?
01:11:28
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:29
Speaker
And he loved it because he was like, this is so crazy.
01:11:31
Speaker
Like, cool.
01:11:32
Speaker
This is what it was like.
01:11:34
Speaker
And I was like, yes, there were children that literally had to do this.
01:11:38
Speaker
And they thought that this was the way that life was.
01:11:42
Speaker
And it's crazy.
01:11:43
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:45
Speaker
Amazing.
01:11:45
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:46
Speaker
Well, I'm looking forward to that.
01:11:47
Speaker
And actually that puts a spin on it.
01:11:48
Speaker
That makes me more interested even.
01:11:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:51
Speaker
So I'll check that out hopefully this weekend, but yeah, that sounds great.
01:11:55
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:56
Speaker
So now that we've gotten a book in a movie, this one, I feel we sort of touched up on, but we get to sort of like, I know it's not truly definitive and that's okay.
01:12:05
Speaker
But if we're going to say you get to pick one food, what's that one food?
01:12:12
Speaker
Tamales.
01:12:14
Speaker
Tamales.
01:12:14
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:15
Speaker
Perfect.
01:12:16
Speaker
But not any tamales.
01:12:17
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:18
Speaker
I mean, from like Guatemalan tamales.
01:12:21
Speaker
Oh, wow.
01:12:22
Speaker
Wrapped in banana leaf.
01:12:23
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:24
Speaker
Filled with not just marinated pork or vegetables and stuff like that, but like,
01:12:30
Speaker
big chunks of meat that have the bones still in it with like olives and other stuff like banana leaf wrapped tamales are so different from other ones.
01:12:39
Speaker
They're so moist.
01:12:41
Speaker
It gives like a taste to the masa that is unrecognizable.
01:12:45
Speaker
I am very passionate about Guatemalan tamales.
01:12:48
Speaker
It's my favorite food.
01:12:50
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:50
Speaker
That's the number one.
01:12:51
Speaker
So is there any place accessible other than traveling to Guatemala?
01:12:57
Speaker
Is there any place that you might be able to find something like this that people could at least get like a taste of like even sort of authenticity?
01:13:04
Speaker
Tune Up Cafe here in Santa Fe has Guatemalan tamales that I have tasted that kind of hit the nail on stuff that I'm craving most of the time.
01:13:12
Speaker
But honestly, a majority of the time that I'm craving it around any holiday season, I will find someone locally that's selling them and buy them myself.
01:13:24
Speaker
Okay.
01:13:24
Speaker
I thought you were going to say a quick trip to Guatemala just because you got to get the fix.
01:13:30
Speaker
Oh, I wish.
01:13:31
Speaker
I wish I could.
01:13:33
Speaker
Just on a whim.
01:13:33
Speaker
If only teleportation were a thing.
01:13:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:36
Speaker
Fortunately, I know a lot of Guatemalan locals here.
01:13:40
Speaker
Oh, good.
01:13:40
Speaker
Okay.
01:13:41
Speaker
Well, do you ever have any that you can send to Albuquerque, you know, just a little ways away?
01:13:45
Speaker
Oh, I will.
01:13:46
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:46
Speaker
Let me know because I'm interested.
Exploration of Video Games and Influence
01:13:49
Speaker
And now I think I know the answer to this one based on a handful of conversations we've had, but obviously we're doing this podcast for not me, but for everybody else.
01:13:56
Speaker
Now I have to ask this because it would be ridiculous if I didn't, but if you had to choose a favorite video game, what's it going to be?
01:14:08
Speaker
My answer is probably going to be a little surprising.
01:14:11
Speaker
because it's such an old game that almost no one, I have literally never met a single person that knew what it was besides me, which my stepdad bought me this game.
01:14:25
Speaker
So I showed an interest in video games when I was like five and my mom built me my own PC so that I could play games.
01:14:35
Speaker
And she always brags about how I like
01:14:37
Speaker
broke the Sims and did a bunch of weird shit.
01:14:41
Speaker
And I was always into any sort of like RPG game.
01:14:46
Speaker
So Final Fantasy was one of my first after that, where I played Final Fantasy seven to death.
01:14:53
Speaker
And this was in the very early nineties.
01:14:55
Speaker
Like I said, I was like five or six.
01:14:58
Speaker
And then Final Fantasy nine is my favorite Final Fantasy that exists.
01:15:03
Speaker
But actually my favorite game,
01:15:06
Speaker
is a game called Kadelka.
01:15:08
Speaker
Kadelka, yep.
01:15:10
Speaker
You know it?
01:15:11
Speaker
I do.
01:15:12
Speaker
Oh my God.
01:15:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:14
Speaker
You're literally the first person I've met that knows this game.
01:15:19
Speaker
That is my favorite game.
01:15:21
Speaker
I feel like it combines all of the parts of my favorite games.
01:15:26
Speaker
Like it has the fighting style and the map style that Final Fantasy has, which I'm sure you can understand.
01:15:34
Speaker
It has the tones of Resident Evil, but it also has a little bit of Silent Hill in it.
01:15:41
Speaker
It's very dark.
01:15:43
Speaker
It has like an uplifting story to it and like this freedom in the game and like the customizable part of like your characters where it's like so fucking tactical and so...
01:15:55
Speaker
planned and then also scary as shit.
01:15:58
Speaker
Like you've played the game then, right?
01:16:01
Speaker
So here's the thing is I know of the game simply because I've been in the gaming industry for like 25 years, maybe longer at this point.
01:16:08
Speaker
But so I've seen it multiple times.
01:16:10
Speaker
I've checked out the box.
01:16:11
Speaker
I've looked at, I've seen, you know, reviews and things in magazines, never actually played it.
01:16:16
Speaker
for clarity but it looks like this might actually be on my list of stuff to check out if i get yes please do even okay so final fantasy i feel like uh even in its earlier ages was really above or like past its time in its little video scenarios and things that it would put out there like
01:16:41
Speaker
So the same with Kidelka where like cut scenes and stuff were so detailed for that time, but they were so intense emotionally and scary themed.
01:16:52
Speaker
Everything like Kidelka was so gory compared to other games put out at that time.
01:16:58
Speaker
Even like Silent Hill when you watch that, like when Lisa dies in Silent Hill, where it was like for that time, it seemed kind of graphic.
01:17:08
Speaker
To have like this woman who was somewhat sexualized, like covered in blood, helpless and like kind of sick and like dragging herself towards you.
01:17:16
Speaker
Like I can still see that scene in my head.
01:17:20
Speaker
And the first time I saw it, I was what, when the fuck did that come out?
01:17:24
Speaker
Like 1997 or eight?
01:17:26
Speaker
Like I was born in 91.
01:17:28
Speaker
So I was playing this when it was brand new and I was like, oh shit.
01:17:32
Speaker
Like as soon as like I exited out the door from Lisa, like dragging her like bloody self out at me where I was like, this is fucked up.
01:17:40
Speaker
Kidelka is like 10 times worse than that.
01:17:43
Speaker
Interesting.
01:17:44
Speaker
Okay.
01:17:44
Speaker
Dark, demonic and like actually scared you.
01:17:49
Speaker
And you had to go back and fight the shit that was coming for you in these cut scenes where there's this one specific that's in like,
01:17:58
Speaker
It's when you're swapping over a disc.
01:18:01
Speaker
I remember this because the saddest part about Kedelka is when I was like 16 or 17, I had just moved to Santa Fe from Sacramento and I had all this shit and I was trading in a bunch of stuff at GameStop and I worked at GameStop.
01:18:16
Speaker
And so I was like, okay, I'll get some money back and I'll buy some of this other shit that I wanted.
01:18:20
Speaker
Like the DS had just come out when I worked there.
01:18:24
Speaker
So I wanted all of that.
01:18:26
Speaker
So I was like, I'm just going to trade in all my old PlayStation games.
01:18:29
Speaker
And Kedelka was worth a lot.
01:18:32
Speaker
Like I looked at the checkout and it was like $60 for that game trading value.
01:18:38
Speaker
And this was so long ago where almost nothing that you got, you got anything back from.
01:18:43
Speaker
I think GameStop has been infamous for fucking over people for trade-ins.
01:18:49
Speaker
So when I traded it in, it was worth a shit ton of money.
01:18:52
Speaker
And I was like, oh, that's so crazy.
01:18:54
Speaker
And then like a year later when I was like, I just want Kidulco back.
01:18:58
Speaker
And I looked it up and it's like $200 on eBay.
01:19:00
Speaker
And I was like, oh my God.
01:19:03
Speaker
I like let go this like classic game that I thought no one knew because I didn't know anyone that played it because my stepdad gave it to me after we played Soul Reaver.
01:19:15
Speaker
on PlayStation.
01:19:17
Speaker
And this was something similar in Silent Hill and Resident Evil 2.
01:19:21
Speaker
And I thought this was all kind of in the same boat video game wise.
01:19:26
Speaker
And I still have never gotten it back.
01:19:28
Speaker
I can't, I'm very frugal.
01:19:29
Speaker
I can't justify, you know, another game too, that is very lost that I bet that you were familiar with that I meant to ask you about.
01:19:38
Speaker
One of my employees brought up because he had a memory.
01:19:41
Speaker
He was like,
01:19:42
Speaker
I used to play this game on PlayStation all the time and I didn't know what it was.
01:19:46
Speaker
And I recognized it the way he described it was wild nine.
01:19:50
Speaker
Wild nine.
01:19:50
Speaker
I, the soundtrack done by a band called Sonic mayhem.
01:19:53
Speaker
You had them by Doug to Napel of earthworm Jim developed by shiny entertainment.
01:19:58
Speaker
So you know this, I was like, I can find someone.
01:20:03
Speaker
that knows this, but I was like, for me, I was like, I thought I imagined this.
01:20:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:08
Speaker
I think I've got a copy of my shelf literally right back there.
01:20:10
Speaker
So what?
01:20:12
Speaker
Yep.
01:20:12
Speaker
I'll have to tell them.
01:20:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:14
Speaker
But that's actually my favorite game.
01:20:16
Speaker
It's like, that's like my white Buffalo.
01:20:19
Speaker
I like traded it in and I never got it back.
01:20:23
Speaker
One of these days forever.
01:20:25
Speaker
I will.
01:20:25
Speaker
One of these days I will justify it is worth $200.
01:20:28
Speaker
It honestly is.
01:20:29
Speaker
Sure.
01:20:29
Speaker
Sure.
01:20:31
Speaker
It's just like so tactical and so dark and so strange.
01:20:34
Speaker
I, yeah.
01:20:35
Speaker
Yes.
01:20:36
Speaker
That sounds excellent.
01:20:36
Speaker
Okay.
01:20:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:37
Speaker
Cause I'm simply familiar with the game existing, seeing the box art and always thought, Oh, this looks, you know, creepy, but never personally tried it.
01:20:43
Speaker
So, okay.
01:20:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:20:46
Speaker
Now here's the final question before we wrap up for the night.
Embracing Personal Style and Overcoming Doubt
01:20:51
Speaker
If you had the opportunity really to just sort of give advice to somebody who needs it, advice you wish maybe that you had younger you,
01:21:01
Speaker
You right now, who knows, but what's one piece of advice you would impart upon somebody listening to this?
01:21:09
Speaker
Towards like someone in my industry community, I feel like I would speak mostly to is to really not overthink it, to just go with the weird shit, to go with your intuition.
01:21:24
Speaker
And instead of feeling like you don't,
01:21:28
Speaker
nothing you say matters or like the work that you're putting forward is as good as other people, but to just follow what you feel feels right and natural.
01:21:39
Speaker
And, and that's you, it's, it's called your style.
01:21:42
Speaker
And so many artists stunt themselves trying to produce art from the eyes of someone they're trying to impress or from their boss, but they actually stunt their own growth.
01:21:53
Speaker
And it also leads to imposter syndrome where you feel like,
01:21:57
Speaker
you don't belong anywhere.
01:21:59
Speaker
Oh, I bet.
01:22:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:22:00
Speaker
I feel like I would be so much further in my career if I didn't shit on myself so much in my younger years.
01:22:06
Speaker
Just trust yourself then.
01:22:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:22:08
Speaker
Believe in yourself.
01:22:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:22:11
Speaker
That's great.
01:22:11
Speaker
And it's great because I think for your industry that holds very true.
01:22:14
Speaker
And I think for a lot of people who are just guessing who they are is, you know, it's so easy to feel like you're disappointing somebody.
01:22:23
Speaker
Maybe just don't do that.
01:22:23
Speaker
Maybe it's just really is just, you know,
01:22:26
Speaker
you have to forge your own everything.
01:22:30
Speaker
Yeah.
01:22:30
Speaker
Cause that feeling never goes away.
01:22:33
Speaker
The feeling that you suck or you're not producing something that someone gives a shit about it stays no matter what, like I could get published in a magazine once a month and still hate a hundred percent of everything I do where I don't believe anybody because of
01:22:53
Speaker
some of the shit that I would just swallow during my younger years of trying to think of what I thought is creative or outstanding or appealing to other people did not fit what someone I admired had thought of.
01:23:07
Speaker
But that's the thing is like artists can all be good.
01:23:09
Speaker
We're all good at different things.
01:23:12
Speaker
So if you don't take control of like your individuality and your creativity and kind of just like take control of the weird shit you're doing,
01:23:20
Speaker
you're going to go nowhere either way.
01:23:25
Speaker
So, yeah, I think that's phenomenal.
01:23:27
Speaker
I think it's great advice and it's so easy to overlook because overthinking really does ruin everything.
01:23:32
Speaker
Yeah.
01:23:34
Speaker
Cause you'll never put out the work that you're thinking about if you continue to think about it.
01:23:38
Speaker
Cause you can't get perfect instead, like swap the idea of like where you hold perfection in importance.
01:23:46
Speaker
I like that.
01:23:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:23:48
Speaker
like you will like instead of we're going to always strive to make something perfect and you should always strive for that but the you know inspiration to get to perfection and that drive to get there and complete that project is passion and to not let that get kind of skewed in that always strive for for perfection but don't
01:24:12
Speaker
stop when you don't think something is perfect because you're never going to work out.
01:24:16
Speaker
And honestly, other people don't see you or the work that you do the same way that you do.
01:24:22
Speaker
I can put out something that I hate and people think I've done something amazing.
01:24:27
Speaker
And I'm like, you guys are all lying to me and I ignore them and I never do it again.
01:24:33
Speaker
But in reality, you
01:24:34
Speaker
people admire you for a lot of different things and you should just be able to at some point feel confidence and acceptance in the way that other people view and admire you.
01:24:45
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
01:24:47
Speaker
I think that's terrific.
01:24:47
Speaker
I think that's beautiful advice that everybody can use.
01:24:52
Speaker
Yeah.
Closing Thoughts and Podcast Reflection
01:24:53
Speaker
So now, Jessica, where can people find you as far as like, I mean, not like, you know, I'm not going to get the coordinates of your address, but as far as like media that you want to give out, like, you know, a restaurant or a page or an Instagram or a Twitter or anything like that, where you feel that you want people to be able to access you.
01:25:11
Speaker
What do you got?
01:25:12
Speaker
So I'm the executive pastry chef at the compound restaurant in downtown Santa Fe.
01:25:18
Speaker
You can find us off Canyon road.
01:25:20
Speaker
We're very classic old restaurants.
01:25:23
Speaker
known restaurant.
01:25:24
Speaker
You can always come there and find my work there if you want to eat it.
01:25:27
Speaker
But if you don't live locally or you don't want to go out to eat at a super fine dining restaurant, my Instagram handle is all lowercase hellajessica666.
01:25:40
Speaker
Bye.
01:25:43
Speaker
which is always embarrassing to tell people as a professional now.
01:25:46
Speaker
But I feel like I can't change it now.
01:25:49
Speaker
So many people know me as that and whatever.
01:25:52
Speaker
Whoever hires me knows I am who I am.
01:25:54
Speaker
I mean, look at me.
01:25:57
Speaker
What would you expect?
01:25:58
Speaker
Expect anything less than that's on you.
01:26:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:01
Speaker
Perfect.
01:26:03
Speaker
Okay.
01:26:03
Speaker
Well, so I want to thank you for being part of this series and for being somebody that like, you know, within the past hour and a half, I've learned a tremendous amount about.
01:26:12
Speaker
And so thank you really just for being part of this podcast.
01:26:17
Speaker
And Jessica, thank you for helping create humanity.
01:26:21
Speaker
Of course.
01:26:21
Speaker
Thank you for inviting me.
01:26:23
Speaker
This is such a good podcast for so many people.
01:26:25
Speaker
Like I said, I listened to a couple of them to kind of get a feel because initially me hearing it, I was like, what am I supposed to say?
01:26:31
Speaker
What am I supposed to do?
01:26:32
Speaker
And I was like, just listen to it.
01:26:34
Speaker
But it's an approachable way for everyone to relate to a lot of different walks of life in a non-
01:26:42
Speaker
confrontational way.
01:26:44
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:26:45
Speaker
And that's what I was going for is making it comfortable, casual, and hopefully something that everybody can listen to and relate to.
01:26:51
Speaker
So thank you.
01:26:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:26:52
Speaker
And you've achieved that.
01:26:54
Speaker
So thank you.
01:26:55
Speaker
Absolutely.
01:26:55
Speaker
It's my pleasure.
01:26:56
Speaker
And I'm grateful you're one of my guests and maybe we'll see you again in the future.
01:27:00
Speaker
Yes, I hope so.
01:27:01
Speaker
All right.
01:27:01
Speaker
Well, thank you everybody and have a great night.
01:27:04
Speaker
Take care.
01:27:04
Speaker
Thank you.
01:27:29
Speaker
you