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Juventus, AC Milan, Atalanta OUT Of Champions League: Italian Football In CRISIS (Clip From Ep. 496)
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After Atalanta, AC Milan and Juventus were eliminated in the playoff round of the Champions League against Club Brugge, Feyenoord and PSV Eindhoven respectively, Nima Tavallaey and Carlo Garganese analyze, discuss and debate from a birds-eye view all problems plaguing Serie A and Italian football.
This is a clip from the weekly Thursday episode of the Italian Football Podcast.
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Transcript
Introduction & Episode Overview
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast. So what we'll do is, first of all, we're going to look at, the we're going to split this into two. First of all, we'll we'll look at the overarching state of Italian football, the bigger picture, let's say.
00:00:16
Speaker
Then
Serie A's Champions League Struggles
00:00:17
Speaker
after we do that, we'll we'll go into the actual three matches themselves. And because each game has its own story. um And we'll go through the three games and what went wrong for Juventus, Milan and Atalanta.
Decline of Italian Football
00:00:33
Speaker
um But to start off with, um we need to talk about the greater meaning of this of this of this horror week. And this is maybe the worst week in...
00:00:46
Speaker
the history of the Champions League for Serie A, pound for pound. And I think that will become apparent as we as we go through this segment. um For me, we knew, and we've been warning about it, that this day was coming where we we we hit rock bottom. we've We've warned about it for years.
00:01:04
Speaker
The signs are all there and we'll go through what those signs are again, remind everyone what the signs are. um And now we've we've hit the abyss. This is our lowest point. To to go out in the the first... i mean, it's it's not even the last 16. It's the last 24.
00:01:19
Speaker
we have an we um Three of our four teams haven't even reached the but the last 16. That's how bad
Italian Clubs as Feeder Teams
00:01:25
Speaker
it is. And... um we've We have to be honest of of where we are now.
00:01:32
Speaker
Italian football is a mess from from top to bottom. we We've had a few good recent years um where everybody's spoken up that Calcio is back and and all and all these these nonsense slogans. But the truth is that really we've only had one one good year in the Champions League, which was in 2023.
00:01:52
Speaker
i know And all the other good performances have genuinely come, generally come in the the two minor cup competitions, the Europa League and Conference League, which are minor cup competitions, if we're if we're really being honest, as a whole, that is.
Financial Struggles of Italian Clubs
00:02:07
Speaker
um We have become ah feeder and outcast league. You know, the players that we sign are generally rejects from from the Premier League um or other big clubs.
00:02:18
Speaker
And they are developing players who then we then sell on once they once they approach their peak. um And you only have to look through you know our biggest teams and see that Milan's team is is full of Premier League rejects.
00:02:32
Speaker
Players that have been ah considered disposable players from the from the Premier League teams. Walker, Tomori, Loftus-Cheek, Pulisic, Jao Felix, Giroud before you. these ah These are players that were disposable.
00:02:43
Speaker
Juventus in January, look at their transfer market. They signed you know a Newcastle reserve for €24 million, euros a Chelsea reserve, a PSG reserve. Juventus have Celtic and Leeds outcasts starting for them.
00:02:56
Speaker
And then we're supposed to be surprised if they if they flop in Europe.
Marketing and Broadcasting Failures
00:02:59
Speaker
Inter have been performing miracles with with free transfers but for for a number of years now, which is unsustainable. Atalanta have been performing miracles with a championship budget.
00:03:09
Speaker
And our league and our clubs have no money. you know We have banks and investment funds owning own our clubs. you know Our TV rights are plummeting year after year. um you know We have a marketing and social and team that that can't even speak English, let alone write English.
Structural Issues in Italian Football
00:03:24
Speaker
You know, we have commercial chiefs who are completely clueless and they think that flying to America ah once a month so to their New York office willll will will'll suddenly ah take Serie A back to to to greatness. um we you know We have stadiums that are crumbling. We can't build new stadiums.
00:03:41
Speaker
we We don't give Italians and and youth players a chance. um our you know Our national team has not qualified for a World Cup in 12 years. you know We've not won a Champions League for 15 years.
00:03:52
Speaker
And now to to top it off, we've got to the point where we three of our biggest teams go out in the Champions League before the last 16 stage, not to big teams, but to teams from Belgium and Holland.
00:04:09
Speaker
two of the And two of these three teams in complete crisis at the moment as well. We're now on the at the level where we're we're going out to PSV, Feyenoord and Club Brugge. You know, one one of these two, three teams could make it could maybe happen. Two could maybe happen.
00:04:24
Speaker
Three, I'm sorry, that's no coincidence. That's not circumstance. That's a sign of of decay. And that's the sign that really hammers home. The last two nights have hammered home just how far Nima Italian football has has fallen.
Historical Context of Current Crisis
00:04:39
Speaker
Yes, I think i think from from my perspective, I look at it like the bird's eye view of the things you outlined um and the structural mess that is Italian football, to borrow a phrase from, I think her name is Amanda Stavely, who was involved in the Newcastle takeover.
00:04:57
Speaker
And the reason why they didn't invest in in in Italian football is The other is, which we're going to talk about, are the games themselves. ah Why Brugge, Milan, Feyenoord, PSV knocked Italian football and knocked these clubs out.
00:05:16
Speaker
and Because it's very different situations. um The macro and the micro perspective is what we look at here whenever we do these post-mortems.
00:05:27
Speaker
And I just want to stress that more than one thing can be true at the same time. But you have to be as blind as a bat if you don't understand and refuse to understand that Italian football is in a crisis, is in a crisis that it's probably the the worst crisis it has ever been in.
00:05:49
Speaker
Because this is not just about the results not being there. Between 1970 and 1983,
00:05:57
Speaker
Italy never won the European Cup or Champions League.
Management Failures in Adaptation
00:06:00
Speaker
They were in four finals along the way. 1985. Sorry? 1985. No, I looked it up. I think 84. Yeah, 84. Well, 85 is when Juventus won it. but yeah but Yeah, exactly. So between 1970 and 1984, no Italian club won the Champions League European Cup. That's the longest period that italy ever Italian clubs went without winning it.
00:06:21
Speaker
If Inter failed to win it this season, that record record will be equal because between 2011 and 2025, No Italian club would have won it. Between 1784, four Serie A clubs were in the final.
00:06:34
Speaker
ten but Between 2011 and 2024, three. So if Inter don't make it, it's even worse than that. Now, the difference, of course, is that football has changed from 1970 2011.
00:06:49
Speaker
And that no that's also another aspect of this, that the people running Italian football, in my honest opinion, don't understand that. They don't understand that. the the What we've seen the last couple of years with Italian football, and I said it at the time, you can go and check.
00:07:07
Speaker
I said that the the top Italian Serie A clubs, the distance between them and the top European clubs, that distance has shrunk. and And the top Italian clubs are actually able to to impose themselves at the top European level because they've improved and the top European clubs were in some sort of a decline. And that's why we've seen the good results over over the four past four five years.
Quality Decline in Serie A Clubs
00:07:30
Speaker
My feeling has been, and my thoughts have been, that this season, I don't know how much better the top European clubs are, but I definitely can guarantee you that the top Serie A clubs have overall declined in quality.
00:07:44
Speaker
And I think that's what we're seeing play out. Can I just come in there? about and and And let me just finish. and And the point is that in order to address an issue, you have to first acknowledge that it exists. When I interviewed Andy Mitchell, the the CEO of Serie A for North America, and he was a lovely guy and I'm really, you know, nothing against him and it's not really his job to kind of come out and berate the Serie A for their misdealings the last two decades or three decades.
00:08:19
Speaker
But what I was looking for was something, some sort of awareness of the problem. I heard nothing. And I don't blame that on him. i blame that on his superiors.
00:08:31
Speaker
His job is not to do that. they you know He's there to enact the vision of those who have hired him. There is acknowledgement of these issues ah but ah with with those above him.
00:08:43
Speaker
I'm sorry, there isn't. And as long as that's true, these last couple of years of Italian clubs winning Europa League, conference league, getting to the final of each other competition,
00:08:56
Speaker
Those have been good results, but given that the overarching problem has not been addressed, the last few years are like putting Snoopy band-aids on gunshot wounds. Yeah, and and but I actually want to come back because I think it's a myth that the last few years have been good for Italian teams in Europe. They've been good for Italian teams in the in the Europa League and and the and the and the Conference League, but they haven't been good in the Champions League. The Champions League, we've had we've had one excellent season in the Champions League over the last probably...
00:09:30
Speaker
dating back to probably 2017 or 2018, where you know as a whole, we've had we you know we've had one season. The 23 season and went into loss in the final to City.
Broadcasting and TV Rights Issues
00:09:40
Speaker
We had the Milan derby um in the semifinals, wasn't it? And we had Napoli played Milan in the quarterfinals. That was an excellent, that was an outstanding Champions League season by our clubs.
00:09:53
Speaker
But have a look at, go through the last kind of six or seven years of Italian clubs in the Champions League, which is, that is where you really measure the quality of of the league. I'm sorry, you don't do it with the Europa League.
00:10:03
Speaker
and the Conference League. You don't as a whole. Those are minor cup competitions which which a lot of, you know, some of the bigger leagues don't even take seriously. Premier League teams don't take the those competitions seriously.
00:10:14
Speaker
and We've done well in those, but in the Champions League we haven't. You know, Juventus, Juventus haven't got got past the last 16 since, when was the last time? 2018? Milan, apart from that season in 2023, have they ever got past the last No,
00:10:31
Speaker
they haven't um You know, and Atalanta, apart from, you know, they had that one season, didn't they, where they were quarterfinals and they they were in the quarterfinals where they were seconds away from reaching the semis, that one great season in the COVID season.
00:10:45
Speaker
They haven't got past the last 16 months in any other season. um and Napoli, Napoli got to the the quarterfinal of the season when they lost to Milan in 2023. That was the first time ever that they've got to the, they've got to, got past the last 16. So I'm sorry, it's it's a myth.
00:11:03
Speaker
We haven't, we we haven't been performing well We've been performing well in the Europa League and the conference league which i'm i'm sorry they're minor cup competitions that's not taking anything away from from atalanta's achievement last season because they beat they beat big clubs last season so you know i'm not taking anything away it was a brilliant achievement they beat liverpool they beat by leverkusen that was absolutely fantastic but i'm talking you know we're i'm talking about the bigger picture here over the you know this this this whole idea that oh italian clubs have been doing great in europe over the last four five years and we're improving and then look at the coefficient points we've
00:11:33
Speaker
You know, we've got all these coefficients. Those coefficient points have almost all come from from the Europa League and Conference League because the the way that the format and the structure of how you earn coefficient points, if I'm being totally honest, is ridiculous. They've actually given the same value until this season anyway. They've given the same value for performance in those two minor cup competitions as they do in the elite competition.
00:11:55
Speaker
So Italy have been racking up the points by performing well in the Europa League and Conference League because their teams have dropped down from the Champions League. We've actually been rewarded for poor performance. Our team's dropping out or not being good enough Champions They've been dropping down. So I ah just wanted to address that first because I think it's a myth.
00:12:12
Speaker
I do. I think it's a myth. And I think this day has been cut this day has been coming where we're humiliated in the Champions League to teams from from lesser nations. You know, we wouldn't be having this... It wouldn't be so bad if Juventus had lost to Real Madrid, you know, and and and Milan had lost to PSG. And, you know, then you could accept it. You could say, OK, we lost to top teams.
00:12:33
Speaker
We're losing to teams from the Benelux countries. You know, that... that is really damning. That is. Yeah, it is. It is. But like I said, there's a macro perspective as in an overarching perspective.
00:12:49
Speaker
And there's a micro, meaning the details of each and every one. We're going to talk about the overarching things first, and then we're going to go into the nitty gritty of every single game because I think there are very different eliminations.
00:13:02
Speaker
Juves, Milans, Atalantas are all different eliminations. um for various reasons, but they are connected, even though there's no direct, you can't, you know, we're not saying that there's a direct correlation, but there is connections. There's again, a long-term perspective, short-term perspective, over of macro perspective, micro perspective.
00:13:25
Speaker
And that's what we're going to talk about today. Well, the financial situation.
Sustainability Concerns for Italian Clubs
00:13:28
Speaker
did you want to Did you want to break down some of the main points I made in my and my monologue? the financial The financial situation of of the league.
00:13:37
Speaker
How can we expect so be to be challenging? it's just It's just basic logic. If you've got no money at all, if your clubs, you know, the the players that our clubs can afford...
00:13:48
Speaker
are, you know, like I said, they're rejects and and developing players. You know, can anybody be surprised? Like I said before, can anybody is anybody really shocked that Juventus are flopping in Europe when they when they're playing with, we you know, a Newcastle reserve, a Chelsea chelsea was reserve, a PSG reserve, you know, Celtic and Leeds outcasts? That's five there I've just named. okay They might have some other...
00:14:14
Speaker
you know, excellent players in the squad. And, you know, that might be unfair on some of these players, but I'm sorry, you you can't be surprised. I don't, supply I think, I think that's, but that's fair. but It's true, but I think there's more to it than that.
00:14:28
Speaker
I think. No, I'm just talking about the like the level of players that we are. That's exactly what I was going to say. That's what I was going to say. That the top level players the The world class, the biggest names, they haven't gone to Italian football and they don't for many, many years.
00:14:46
Speaker
And when they come to Italian football, they are at the age of Kyle Walker. They're past their best. They're at Cristiano Ronaldo level, which almost cost Juventus their existence financially because they couldn't even have afford him at that level.
00:15:01
Speaker
Very, very bluntly put. When you want the superstars and megastars, you have to get them when they're declining and you can barely afford them then either. That's what we're talking about here.
00:15:12
Speaker
It's not you know just Colomwani and Lloyd you know what's his name Kelly. and No, it's it's not. You have to, like again, this is this is the overarching perspective we're taking. the The top players, the biggest stars, the biggest talents, they don't go to the Italian clubs at any level.
00:15:30
Speaker
They go to to to the Premier League clubs. Now, having said that, it doesn't mean that Cristiano Giuntoli hasn't made mistakes or Marotta hasn't made mistakes or Moncada and Furlani haven't made mistakes at Milan. That's not what we're saying.
00:15:47
Speaker
The issue is... Or that the Premier League clubs, just because they have money, they they they spend it wisely. Far from me to sit here and say that. But that's not what we're saying. We're just saying that in order to succeed, you have to create an environment to succeed.
00:16:02
Speaker
That includes financial structure, finite revenue streams. That doesn't exist. And when that doesn't exist, you have to be creative and you have to perform what Italian sporting directors are the masters at.
00:16:16
Speaker
And that is, you know... performing miracles with second-rate players. And with all due respect to Mkhitaryan, Pulisic, Mwani, all of them different ages, of course,
00:16:31
Speaker
But they are second-rate players. They're not cream of It's not winning hand. You haven't got winning hand. and it's and And if you do you know perform well for a while, like Inter have done, it's not sustainable.
00:16:43
Speaker
And I'm telling Inter fans, and you'll be the first to admit, what Inter are doing is not sustainable. It's going to crash for Inter at some point. They're being incredibly run by ah genius in Beppe Morota.
00:16:54
Speaker
Ooh. Sorry, it's it's gonna fall they're going to fall away. you know is It's its is' because it's not sustainable as in terms of, you know as a whole, it's not sustainable to do what they're doing. It's same for Atalanta.
00:17:05
Speaker
Atalanta will be performing miracles, but they've got a championship budget. So we can't expect them really much better and than what they're doing. in it And as I've said anyway, they've only once got past the last 16.
00:17:18
Speaker
So even though they're performing miracles...
Revenue Generation Failures
00:17:20
Speaker
if we're talking at a Champions League level, the elite kind elite competition, they've still only got past the last 16 once, despite performing miracles. So this is kind of, this is what we're talking about. But I think with revenue streams, you know, we're in a situation now where, where you know, we need to bring in more money.
00:17:36
Speaker
ah And there's obvious ways of doing that. But you've got to create a product in which will generate revenue and generate sponsors. and and And we we're just, they're just the people that run the league are just so clueless.
00:17:48
Speaker
I mean, the TV rights, every year they plummet. They plummet in year after year after year. i think by the next rights cycle, we're going to so rigan a struggle to sell them you in many more markets. Every single rights cycle, we struggle more and more.
00:18:03
Speaker
and you know We have we have ah the head of the the TV rights in Italy and and and also an agency that take care of it. who you know We did a pod on this, didn't we? A few, several months ago at the beginning of the season. and you know that are They're so clueless and incompetent You know, they wait until a few days before the Serie A season starts, before they even start going to possible, you know, to to try and open up negotiations to sell TV rights.
00:18:30
Speaker
And then they wonder why they can't sell them. you know And do you know how many, over the last several months, you know how many messages I've got from people in Asia that are absolutely furious that they can't even, you know, some of these markets in Asia, huge markets, and they they haven't even got to, they can't even watch the games.
00:18:47
Speaker
in in in Asia and know where they can watch them. They they sell that they put them on at 3am in the morning. I mean, these this is just basic stuff. You know, this is something that i kids should know. was one of the, ah for the Champions League, I've been invited to, for the last, like, but I think, five, six match, there four or five match days, I've been invited to be on one the biggest football spaces on Twitter.
00:19:11
Speaker
um The guys hosting that who live in the UK, didn't even know where to watch the Serie A, and they asked me where would they live in the UK. And I was like, yeah, you have to go on the OneFootball app. um One of them works in marketing, and he's like, that's insane. Had you not told me that, I wouldn't have known where to watch the Serie A.
00:19:32
Speaker
And that's not how you market a product. Now, the the marketing campaign has been has been absolutely... he' I mean, he says he works and he works in marketing. He's like, listen, I don't understand what they're thinking. Because because he you know he was like, I think the product is okay. I don't think it's that bad.
00:19:48
Speaker
But when you don't even market it, and and the only reason I know is because you told me on a space. I'm like... yeah And it costs 60 quid for the whole year at OneFootball.
00:19:59
Speaker
i mean, that's another thing. When you don't... but My mother used to say that the reason why Rembrandt paintings are so loved is not because they're just fantastic. It's also because of the framing and the environment...
00:20:10
Speaker
that they're hung up in, in beautiful halls, in the Louvre, and in the most beautiful museums. The Serie A doesn't give a shit about its product. You sell it to one football who don't even market it. They don't care about it. They just want content for their app.
00:20:25
Speaker
yeah So you sell it cheap. you not you know You're not doing going the whole way through. You're not worried about how your product is presented. The Premier League don't just sell their TV rights to anyone. They make sure that the person taking over it is on the up and up, but they market it properly. They have guarantees.
00:20:42
Speaker
Serie A don't do that. Yeah, because that's part of looking at the bigger picture, because if you sell it to if you sell it to a company that are are incompetent, then that's going to damage your brand. And that means that when the next right cycles come, come, that the prices, the value is going to go down even lower and the interest and and and and your your.
00:20:59
Speaker
your your your base of of who you're trying to sell to is is smaller. and and and And as a result, you know the demand is the demand goes down. And
Cultural & Structural Shortcomings
00:21:08
Speaker
and and then and and this is this is what it is. I mean, that you know they they've of some of the stories I've been told of some of the some of the some of the sales, you know, what i think was it in one of the Asian countries anyway, where you have to go on a website to watch it and, and, and there's like double commentary and on games and stuff like this. Like they're literally just, they're just literally just, they sold it to a gaming website in one of the Asian countries.
00:21:33
Speaker
I can't remember where it was. Some of the stories ah I've been told, I think it's India actually. Yeah, it was India. They sold it to a gaming website in India. and which has nothing to do with football. And when they sold it, they didn't even have the website ready. It took weeks before they could. And then everything was going wrong. and Like they had double commentary for a couple of weeks.
00:21:51
Speaker
Like people were here, there was commentating twice on games. And that that this is this is what this is what we're talking about. i mean, it really is like, it's comedy. It's comedy. And this is TV rights we're talking about. and you know And I mean, the whole commercial side of things is laughable. I mean, the people that are, I mean, ah some of the stories I've been told, I don i have to be careful. yeah and i want to I don't want to get people in trouble.
00:22:12
Speaker
You know, we have the commercial chiefs of Serie A that they're flying to America to the New York office like once a month, thinking they're the big boys, thinking that they're important. You know, think that they actually think they're doing a great job.
00:22:23
Speaker
You know, i told you about that. They've used the term conquering America, you know, um and they they' they're absolutely clueless. ah completely clueless. if They think that, you know, and know we make fun of it, um but they genuinely think that just because they're doing business with the Americans, that everything is great.
00:22:42
Speaker
but no It's that's a worldview. It's a world worldview that was modern in 1945. If you don't understand that the world has changed, whether you like it or not, the reality the fact of the reality is that we live in a multipolar world now.
00:22:57
Speaker
like That's just a reality. China is a huge ginormous market. India is a huge ginormous market. South America, Africa, Asia, these are huge markets.
00:23:08
Speaker
And you have to be there. That's where the future lies. And if you don't put your eggs, if you put all your eggs in one basket, in 2025, thinking the way that you did in 1945. I don't know what to tell you. Well, with the TV rights, Nima, they you know I've been told by somebody that's right involved with it that the Serie A chiefs spent months and months just working on trying to secure this tv rights new TV rights deal in America.
00:23:38
Speaker
yeah And they spent all their months doing on that. Despite spending all that time, they got a terrible deal yeah despite that. um And as a result of spending all that time on that, they basically did no negotiations with any other markets around the world. So they were desperate.
00:23:53
Speaker
Which led to basically with with couple of days before the season. And remember, we got tons of messages from and people all around the world going ballistic. We can't watch the games. There's no TV. but Eventually, they managed to rescue a few like last minute.
00:24:06
Speaker
and But they were all kind of terrible deals. yeah Like the one in the UK, for example, and you know where they they made no money from it and and and they just sold it to any Tom, Dick, or Harry, which provides terrible products and the value of ah the deal will go down and and the product just looks a joke.
00:24:25
Speaker
um And then they wonder why every single rights cycle, that the TV deals go go lower and lower. I mean, these are these are the people we're dealing with. They're so clueless. They're so incompetent. um And they don't care.
00:24:37
Speaker
It doesn't feel like they care because, again, one of the reasons in order to fix something, you have to first admit that there is a problem and there is problem. They don't even realize there's problem. Calcio is back. Calcio is back, Kylo. Don't you know that Calcio is back?
00:24:50
Speaker
I mean, it's it's become... That has become a meme. And the
Need for Problem Acknowledgement
00:24:54
Speaker
fact that they use Capello, Cannavarro and Del Piero, who had their glory period 15 years ago,
00:25:01
Speaker
is so telling. Longer, yeah. yeah Well, you know what i mean? It's so telling that I love the three of them. They're legends of the game. Don't get a twist it twisted. But the fact that you think Calcio is back, i mean, it's it's like life life imitating art. It's perfect.
00:25:18
Speaker
The fact that they use those three guys who were at the peak of their powers 15 years ago when Italian football was was was kind of on the decline, but still very good. That, to me, suggests that you don't know.
00:25:32
Speaker
you don't You don't even know that there is a problem. you know they effectively missed and in fact that domestically, DAZN has for three, four seasons now, or five seasons, have had problems in Italy broadcasting the games because the app doesn't work properly.
00:25:48
Speaker
You know? That's all, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's like, you know, stuff like that. It doesn't work. Yeah. but it's it's It's stuff like that. And then, I mean, that's not, you know, you can look at the superficial stuff. They're anti-racism campaigns with the chimpanzees that had the entire world scratching their heads, wondering if they were dreaming.
00:26:07
Speaker
Don't call me gypsy. the Hashtag don't call me gypsy. I mean... But it but is, it does represent. These are just so superficial things. but mean It seems superficial, but it represents how they're just clueless and we don't know how to execute anything.
00:26:20
Speaker
but Even if they have a good idea, ah just they just do not know. Execution is dreadful and it's always been dreadful. i mean and then And then, you know, ah when it comes to marketing, or you know, everybody takes the piss. It's been for years people take the piss about their marketing or social media.
00:26:35
Speaker
I mean, it's it's laughable, you know, that they literally are hiring chimpanzees to to run the, you know, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, Facebook, you know, these people can't even, they can't even speak English, let alone write English.
00:26:50
Speaker
And it's not just that, I mean, it's also the fact that, for example, whenever they do hire influencers and they hire people who who to to grow to reach new audiences they just bring people who've got nothing there's no thought behind it it's like well we'll hire this guy this girl who' has who's got millions of followers on social media we bring them to a game we spend lots of money on that they hype it for five seconds and then it's a flash in the pan there's no long-term strategy no at all discernible with the that the chef weirdo chef that was Yeah, but at least he's Italian.
00:27:21
Speaker
I mean, at least he's you know at least he has Italian descent. At least he actually follows Calcio. you know what I mean? that That's actually one of the good things they've done in their marketing, which is bad.
00:27:31
Speaker
But you know what I mean? I'm talking about when they bring these random YouTubers on who don't know anything about the game and have nothing to do with Italian your football. They just have lots of followers. And it's like, well, ah what what long-term value does that have? How do you reach new audiences? You don't.
00:27:48
Speaker
No, they haven't got clue. They haven't got clue. And that's why, you know, and we could go on and on. I mean, the stadiums, I mean... Yeah, the stadium situation... I know the stadium is partly related to Italian culture, Italian bureaucracy, and and and some of all of this is, to a general sense. It's just the Italian way but things that things are done.
00:28:04
Speaker
um I mean, you know, that we can't get any stadiums. And then that affects the finances as well. The stadium situation is particularly pertinent because... Italy could literally lose the Euros as a result of that.
00:28:16
Speaker
Now, Italy hasn't really hosted a tournament by itself since 1990. In right? 2032, I think. the euros is thirty two right twenty thirty two i think no is now. yeah It was be but yeah we one already. Yeah, I know, but right?
00:28:33
Speaker
so that means fortyt twoo years since italy last hosted a tournament and if it If it is hosted... And we're only co-hosted, Nima. Well, exactly. If it's joint... Yeah, exactly.
00:28:45
Speaker
Co-hosted with Turkey, if it is even hosted. I don't think it will be hosted. I think they're going to lose the rights to that. And it's going to be an embarrassment on an international scale. It's only stadiums we need as well. We only need four stadiums for that and sort of it.
00:28:58
Speaker
And we still we can't even get four stadiums. I mean, and and and and I remember this argument. I was in university when Inter and Milan started talking about ah building a new stadium. 43 now.
00:29:12
Speaker
but Just to put it in perspective. I was in my first year of university when I started... Over 20 years. 25 years. 25 years. It's absolutely mad.
00:29:26
Speaker
I mean, it's... Yeah. I mean, I don't know what to tell you. Like, honestly, I don't know what to tell you. No, I remember us arguing about this and and and you saying, you know, for for for things that be checked to change in Italy...
00:29:39
Speaker
things they have to go absolutely go to hell and shit hits the fan. I'm sorry. We're way past that point. and Yeah, I don't think it is. It can't get any worse than this. Oh, Carlo, dear. It can get worse than it will. If you don't qualify for two World Cups in a row,
00:29:55
Speaker
12 years without qualification, look up the thing that is most beloved to all Italians, not just football fans, is the World Cup and the magic of the World Cup and what that brings to everybody.
Call for Leadership Changes
00:30:05
Speaker
And the embarrassment of not qualifying for one World Cup, to not qualify for two World Cups, and still doesn't occur to you, like we said, it doesn't even occur to them what the problems are, let alone how to change them.
00:30:16
Speaker
if if it if If it's still they still haven't had their lightbulb moment after that, then I'm sorry they're not. Well, there's a reason for that, because because this is the thing. Italy won the Euros in between that, and Italy, it will always it's it's a footballing culture. It's a footballing country.
00:30:32
Speaker
The coaches are some of the best. They will always produce fantastic players. They will always produce fantastic... coaches, because that's just part of the culture. And that is also a part of Italy's curse, because it helps mask a lot of the problems.
00:30:45
Speaker
And it allows the people in charge to point at that and say, look, we've done a great job. Look, we won the Euros. Look, we had we had to we have for the first time ever, we had a team in the final of the conference at Open Champions league What are you moaning about? Everything is fine.
00:30:57
Speaker
Don't worry about it. Forget about it. there Everything is okay. The Italian okey-doke, I call it. Everything is fine. There's so much shit under the rug that the rug no longer even touches the floor, but don't worry about it. Everything is fine.
00:31:12
Speaker
The Italian okie doke. And its and and and it's it's quite sad, really, because it will never, as as like as as I said, before you can fix a problem, you have to acknowledge that it exists.
00:31:27
Speaker
And there's a lot of lot of problems as well. It's not just one. It's not just the stadiums. It's not just, oh, let's let's let we are we need to sort out the stadiums. No, it's not just that. It's so much, you know.
00:31:38
Speaker
and i mean, like Italy. The Italy national team is connected to this. You know, like you said, we won that Euros in Euro 2020. Deservedly won it. It was amazing. It was magical. And I'm so, you know, that was one of the my greatest footballing moments to appreciate that. And, you know, it was incredible to celebrate that.
00:31:57
Speaker
But, But let's be honest, that is the exception, the massive exception to what the rule has been with with Italian football, Italian national team in the last, yeah since let's be honest, since 2006. You know, we've been, we've completely, we've been, in for a top nation, we've been an embarrassment.
00:32:16
Speaker
You know, two World Cups without qualifying. I mean, for Italy, for Italy. I mean, I'm sorry. but that yeah i mean And then you look at the the players, the Italian players that we're producing and developing.
00:32:30
Speaker
And I'm sorry, it's is is one of the worst in history. if we If we compare our to to our great past, of the you know we were always producing superstars, Ballon d'Or winners, the best forwards in the world, the best defenders in the world, you know players playing for the biggest teams in the world around Europe.
00:32:48
Speaker
We don't have those players anymore. You know, we're not for one or two at most, but you don't have superstars. No, you don't have, you know, you can't, you know, as much as I love Bastoni and Barella, and I do love them, I think they're world-class players.
00:33:01
Speaker
You want to compare them to the superstar level that someone like Totti had, Baggio had, you know, Del Piero Maldini had, Nesta, Cannavarro, Pirlo.
00:33:14
Speaker
Those were biggest stars in their day. than today's crop are. And I'm not saying that they're worse players. I'm saying in terms of, you know, how well company many you've named there as well.
00:33:26
Speaker
yeah And they're all in the same generation, you know, and and and we're not, and you know, we're not, ah yeah I mean, we just don't, we just don't give young Italian players a chance at all. you know Our ah player of the tournament in when we theyre in the under um the under-19s last year, or under-17s, Liberale.
00:33:48
Speaker
he's How many minutes has he played for Milan this season? He's playing in Serie C. you know And then you you get other players in that same tournament, like Ethan Nguaneri. Somebody tweeted me this yesterday.
00:33:58
Speaker
They're spot on. you know And he's broken out as one of the you know the big young stars of Arsenal. That's just one example. you know We don't give our our young players, we don't have a pathway for these young players. The problem for me is the pathway, the lack of pathway for young foot for young talents to to play first-team football at a higher level. Especially young Italians, yeah.
00:34:19
Speaker
Yeah. Well, yeah, that that is the problem for me. i think that's the main thing. I don't, I think the youth thing. What I mean is it's all part of it. It's not just one thing. It's many things. It's all part of this bigger, you know, decay that, you know, that we we're not even producing. That is true. And it has always been true of the last 15, 20 years, even when Italian clubs were doing well.
00:34:40
Speaker
And I want to remind people listening that we were saying the same things then when it was going well. consistently week after week, and we're saying it now after this disaster in the Champions League, because they are true.
00:34:54
Speaker
They were true then. They are true now. And a few positive results over a couple of years doesn't change the fact. That's what we're saying. Again, macro perspective and micro perspective.
00:35:07
Speaker
Yeah. So now let's move on, I think, to the... Well, I just want to say one last thing. i just want to say one last thing. like If... I mean, I don't want to be... all doom and gloom. But unfortunately, if you understand Italian culture and everything, I don't see any of this changing. I don't know if it changes or not. and But if it is to change, we need all the people in the top positions in Italian football. all need to All need to lose their jobs. and All need to resign.
00:35:34
Speaker
And we need to have someone certainly at the top that has a vision and understands and recognises that all of these things we've just listed and many more, but only this is only the tip of the iceberg, recognises all the problems that there are in Italian football and systematically tries to go through them one by one to try and solve these issues.
00:35:53
Speaker
We need somebody, you first of all, need someone right at the top looking down on the whole system that can basically recognise it and then start putting things into place. And if that
Conclusion & Club Analysis Transition
00:36:02
Speaker
means sacking people in certain positions, sacking your head of TV rights, sacking your commercial chief, sacking everybody in the league, all the people that are important, you know that is what's needed.
00:36:15
Speaker
Gravina should resign. um he's ah he's He's become a joke now. Again, like you said, the okie-dokie, he got away with it because they won a Euros in between. This guy does nothing for Italian football. He's just a piece of puppet for UEFA.
00:36:28
Speaker
um And he's also got his head up into corruption as well. um you know So he should resign. Unfortunately, he's just been re-elected, which I think answers your question whether anything is going to change. These people only care about preserving their own power.
00:36:44
Speaker
They don't care about about Italian football a whole.
00:36:50
Speaker
Right, let's let's move on to the actual micro perspective of each and m one of these eliminations, because they are very different, each and every one of them.