Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Why we work with osteopathy partners in other countries
26 Plays7 days ago
In the latest episode of our podcast In Conversation with the GOsC, our Head of Policy and Education, Steven Bettles speaks with President Osteopathy Europe, Hanna Tómasdóttir and GOsC Chief Executive and Registrar, Matthew Redford about some of the universal issues facing osteopath, and why working with partners in other countries benefits the profession. Osteopathy Europe brings together professional associations and regulatory authorities from Europe.
Find out more about Osteopathy Europe: https://osteopathyeurope.org/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:05
Speaker
Hello and welcome to another series of In Conversation with the GEOSC, a podcast from the General Osteopathic Council. We regulate osteopaths in the UK. In each episode, we speak with experts, colleagues and individuals from across the profession on topics of interest to osteopaths, patients and perhaps even other healthcare professionals.
Benefits of Regulation in Osteopathy
00:00:25
Speaker
This week, I'm joined by osteopath and president of Osteopathy Europe, Hannah Thomas-Dottier. Hi, Hannah. ah And also GEOSC's Chief Executive and Registrar, Matthew Redford.
00:00:38
Speaker
So in this episode, we're going to be talking about how regulation benefits the profession and why working with different osteopathy organisations across countries gives insights into the profession and ah potentially helps enhance patient care.
Role of Osteopathy Europe
00:00:53
Speaker
Hello, Bugs. Hi, Stephen. Hi, Stephen. Hi. Hi. Hannah, do you want to introduce yourself and say a little bit about Osteopathy Europe? Because there's going to be people who aren't aware of its work, I guess.
00:01:08
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So firstly, thanks for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here and see you online and and talk to you. um So yes, my name is Hannah Thomas-Otid and as you said, I'm the president of the Osteopathy Europe, which is an organization of organizations, meaning that we are kind of ah bringing all the organizations in Europe together together.
00:01:32
Speaker
and work together for the promotion of the profession, but also regulation. and As it is for now, we are currently regulated, the profession is currently regulated 12 countries.
00:01:45
Speaker
Italy is also on the way. So our primary a goal is absolutely to regulate the profession in whole Europe.
Challenges in Harmonizing Standards
00:01:55
Speaker
Because that would mean harmonization of standards.
00:01:58
Speaker
And also it would also mean that it would be easier for for our colleagues... to move across borders because the educational standards would would also be harmonized.
00:02:10
Speaker
So it's it's ah bringing all the organizations together and having them to work together because together we are stronger and we will absolutely yeah reach our goal and aims and vision and missions much better together.
00:02:23
Speaker
So that's kind of what we are doing or trying to do at least. but Well, that's a great introduction. My next question was going to be um about the the variability of regulation across Europe in particular and and what you see as the value of regulation. And I guess you've kind of answered that really in the in the sense of that that sort of bringing together of standards and expectations across Europe.
00:02:46
Speaker
But it's there are still challenges, aren't there? Because ah eve ifve even... ah ah obviously the UK is no longer ah in the EU, ah but even across you Europe, how osteopathy is regulated, if it is regulated in the country, it does vary from country to country, doesn't it?
00:03:03
Speaker
Absolutely.
Impact of Brexit on Osteopathy Regulation
00:03:04
Speaker
So and and you are very spot on there. And I would just like to highlight that even though you decided to leave the EU, you're still part of Europe. Because i I often get this question or, you know, kind of statement.
00:03:17
Speaker
So the UK left Europe. No, they didn't. They're still a part of Europe, hopefully, same continent. um But anyway, yes, the profession is regulated as it is for now in 12 countries and the regulation does differ.
00:03:31
Speaker
It means that in some country we have, if I can say so, maybe stronger regulation and stronger protection of the title of osteopath, for instance. and And now obviously I'm based in Denmark, I'm from Iceland, so I'm quite familiar with regulation in the Nordics and also obviously also in the countries where we have regulation in place.
00:03:53
Speaker
But yes yes, it does differ. and And the thing is also, as you decided to move from the EU, eu ah it means also it's more challenging, for instance, for Austriapass coming from the UK and want to want to, for instance, be based in Denmark or Europe.
00:04:12
Speaker
Or in
Variability in European Regulation
00:04:13
Speaker
Norway or in Finland. So because you are now considered as a third like as applicants from third countries, which is the same as if I would or would like to join you in the UK, I will be considered as an app applicant from third third country.
00:04:30
Speaker
So it it makes it makes things a bit more different. But yes, regulation is different. We have full regulation in the Nordics, meaning that the title is protected and we are seen ah fully as a healthcare professionals.
00:04:43
Speaker
So in some countries, the regulation is a bit more weak, meaning that, for instance, in France, the regulation means that, yes, you are regulated, you have the title, but you're not completely considered as a healthcare professional.
00:04:57
Speaker
So there are some differences in regulation, but regulation is still important in regards to the standard. It's important also for the patient's safety. And as I mentioned before, also the educational standard, meaning that if a citizen wants to, let's say,
00:05:13
Speaker
you You are from Iceland. My yeah my niece went to Mallorca some years ago and she wrote to me, so can I can i go to this osteopath who's working here or there? And I was like, well, if she's a part of this badness organization, I know which standards she is.
00:05:29
Speaker
actually fulfilling but if she's not a part of the of the organization she could even just have taken you know a weekend course so and i would not be you know feeling comfortable that if you're going to her because you have these symptoms e etc they might be overlooked because they are not properly trained does it build it builds trust doesn't it that's the that's the key thing it's trust to the public so yes matt Matthew, have you got anything to add to to that?
00:05:59
Speaker
Absolutely, Stephen. i think Hannah's nailed it and and she's absolutely right in terms of her sort description of regulation. i mean,
Ensuring Safety and Quality through Regulation
00:06:06
Speaker
we we know that regulation is important to protect the public in order to provide standards and safeguards and assurance around the sort of the safety and quality of individuals within the profession.
00:06:16
Speaker
um And that's you know regulation in its broadest sense. And clearly in this context, we're talking about sort of osteopathy and and healthcare care professionals. But I think also for the profession itself, regulation acts as that mark that an individual is qualified, is competent, is ensured or keeping their skills and their training up to date. There's that ongoing commitment to professional development and that provides real assurance for the public. And we see that through YouGov surveys that we've run in the UK. And I know that there are similar studies um across Europe and internationally as well, where that evidence base exists that the public requires.
00:06:52
Speaker
rely upon regulation um in order to feel assured about the quality of individuals they see. But there's something else that Hannah said which I wanted to um sort of build upon. which is that regulation is not just an act carried out by one organisation or one entity.
00:07:10
Speaker
Regulation is part of a wider system. And I think that having and ability to come together, to collaborate, to share knowledge, to share insights about shared problems, um activities that are taking place within individual jurisdictions is a really powerful tool.
00:07:29
Speaker
And that helps build trust in the profession that helps to enhance better outcomes in terms of patient care and patient quality, because by working together jointly and having that sort of shared um sort of collective approach to patient safety um can only be for the can only be for the better.
00:07:50
Speaker
Hannah said we're stronger together. and And I absolutely, you know, fundamentally agree with that. and And yes, the UK chose to um leave the EU, but actually GEOSC as part of Osteopathy Europe is is core to our ongoing activities.
00:08:06
Speaker
what
Issues in European Osteopathy
00:08:07
Speaker
What do you both see is as key issues, sort of universal issues facing osteopathy? Is there is there is there something that's consistent across Europe, do you think? or Or does it differ from country to country?
00:08:23
Speaker
Well, if i'm if I may start, I honestly, and I totally agree with it Matthew, and thank you for for expanding on this, really important. um But I will say one of the biggest issues that we have in Europe is actually lack of regulation.
00:08:38
Speaker
It's one thing, and it's a biggie. And the other thing is say we need more ah we need more education, which is statutory regulated,
00:08:49
Speaker
in each country. so So we need more full-time education in in more countries in Europe. So definitely we we do have educations in in many countries, luckily, but ah unfortunately I know that some schools have been forced to close um in For instance, in Sweden and in Spain, ah where we don't have regulation of the profession. And I think these two components are very connected.
00:09:19
Speaker
and and And probably most of the... yep I will say the two most important things, the core, is regulation and education. And they just come very closely together.
00:09:30
Speaker
I don't know if you want to exp expand on that, Matthew. ah Yeah, I think you're you're you're right, Hannah, and I think that you know the idea of having regulation across Europe is is is a shared ambition um and and there's a shared aim.
00:09:43
Speaker
um Regulation can easily be taken away, and we're seeing that that threat happening in other um countries um where regulation has previously been sort of granted, and that's a challenge.
00:09:55
Speaker
And I think this plays then into what's the professional identity of the profession. And there's there's shared conversations um across ah across the sort jurisdictions in Europe around what does osteopathy mean as an identity, as a professional identity?
00:10:11
Speaker
Where are there the common elements? Where are the differences um based on the environments and the context within which um each country sort practices? um and And I think what's been really interesting interesting for for for me, Stephen, being in the room and listening to the conversations that have taken place, I think if I'm going to be sort of perhaps slightly sort of challenging, as I i think potentially in the UK, we've become slightly complacent that regulation has been granted and therefore will always exist.
00:10:42
Speaker
And I'm not sure that that that's the right position to um the right position to take. I think we haven't perhaps spoken enough about the value of regulation. And I think that's certainly um an experience that i've I've seen around the osteopathy um ah Europe table, that there's a greater degree of passion, a greater degree of articulation about the value of regulation.
00:11:08
Speaker
And that's something which um I think we can learn from our European sort neighbours and friends. And we're bringing that into our activity um in terms of the way that we're communicating in the u in the UK at the moment.
Regulation and Professional Associations
00:11:20
Speaker
ah yeah Are you saying that the aspiration of it is more valued amongst those who who don't have a regulated osteopathic profession than those who do? is that is that the Yes, i think ive i think that's I think that's fair to say. I think certainly for those countries that don't have it, it's it's something that they're aspiring to and they want to learn from those countries that do have regulation.
00:11:39
Speaker
um um you know what are the What are the opportunities? What are the challenges that come with that? um But equally, I think for those countries where regulation has been achieved, We then don't talk sufficiently about the value that that brings, why that's important to patients, why that's important to the profession.
00:11:57
Speaker
And we need to change that narrative. And it's been really helpful to be around the Osteopathy Europe table, the last meeting that we held together in March. There were some really passionate and powerful talks from colleagues across Europe about the benefits that regulation brings.
00:12:12
Speaker
And we don't use that language sufficiently. So that's a learning for us in the UK. Yeah. Well, and I totally agree with you. And at the same time, regulation isn't the final goal. But I can see we have been regulated in Denmark with my Danish hat on We've been regulated since 2018. And it was such a big thing to start with. And everyone was just, yeah, we just got regulation, and you know, and it was quite exciting.
00:12:36
Speaker
and It was a very brief processface to process in Denmark. so So all of a sudden we were regulated just in two years time. so and And many of our my colleagues and the colleagues who graduated at the same time as I did, we were kind of, we were not going to get regulation within the next 20 years.
00:12:55
Speaker
so But yeah, but we have it now. But our colleagues who are graduating now, it's kind of, yes, we had regulation for for seven years, so what's the best? so But it is a biggie. It is important. It means also that we have access to other doors, which we didn't have before.
00:13:14
Speaker
So the yeah the power of regulation is huge, and the impact and and how we can... communicate with all the healthcare professionals and be a part of national guideline working groups, etc.
00:13:28
Speaker
So our voice is much bigger as regulated than non-regulated. So I can perfectly understand why our colleagues in Osteopathy Europe do want regulation in the countries because the profession will flourish much more. And if you and and I think what is also important is not just to say, OK, if we got regulated, we don't have to work anymore. This is a final goal.
00:13:51
Speaker
We really need to work. with We need to expand on regulation. We need to see more opportunities for our colleagues to be able to practice across the health care sector. So so there are so many opportunities who comes with which comes with regulation and that ne that needs to be utilized. so and this is Absolutely. and this is where but I sort of come back to the point that we were discussing earlier about, you know, it's part of a system because, you know, regulation, as Hannah's just sort of described, is is one step.
00:14:21
Speaker
But then if we think about other bodies within our respective osteopathic communities, this is where organisations like professional associations can then leap from the bedrock of regulation and they can start to take forward activities which regulators not allowed to do, such as promoting the profession, lobbying on behalf of the profession.
00:14:39
Speaker
But those professional associations that exist in the countries with regulation are then able to take those steps forward and are able to sort of make progress in those particular areas. So in many ways, you know regulation provides that foundation and other organisations can then sort of take forward those really exciting sort of opportunities that Hannah's just articulated.
00:14:58
Speaker
what What are the barriers to it happening? I mean, in countries where it isn't on the cards, you know, in the short term, at least, is it just because the profession's quite small there? Or there are other other areas that the that put barriers up to it taking place?
00:15:15
Speaker
I don't think it's about ah about the profession size. For instance, our friends and colleagues in Iceland, they got regulation in place in 2004, I think, three or four, and they were three Austriapest in Iceland.
00:15:32
Speaker
So it's definitely not about the size of the profession. I think it's more about the political landscape. In many ways. So, and if you say political landscape, it's not just the politicians.
00:15:42
Speaker
it so so the It's also about the other healthcare professions. We know that there has been quite a resistance, for instance, in some countries, in Spain and in Austria.
00:15:53
Speaker
where they want the profession, who which is we we are a separate healthcare profession, but they want it to be integrated as either medical profession or physiotherapy, which is completely wrong.
00:16:06
Speaker
So obviously we are separate professions. So there are some issues and some strains and struggles, and many of them, as in my in my opinion, are purely political in different terms, if that makes sense.
00:16:20
Speaker
Matthew, what is your take on that? I think, you yes you're right, Anna. Political um sort of challenges is is is exactly the answer that i was I was going to give. And I think, you know, those challenges that you mentioned for countries like Spain, where there's that desire to try and sort of consolidate them within our other sort of professions, are under those banners.
00:16:39
Speaker
You know, that's that's that's not the right that's not the right approach. And when we look at countries across Europe, and further us overseas as well, where there is regulation in place. The profession's identity, the profession's autonomy is not threatened.
00:16:51
Speaker
You know, regulation is not a barrier to the profession being able to develop, to grow, to innovate. Far from it. It's a framework within which there are those standards and safeguards for the public and there are those um standards and safeguards for the profession itself. Yeah.
00:17:08
Speaker
But it's not a it's it's not a restriction. I think some of those challenges in Europe where um the political sort of scene isn't quite in the same space as it is um in countries such as the UK and Denmark, I think you know there's gradual steps towards that changing, but but these things don't happen quickly.
Supporting Unregulated Countries
00:17:28
Speaker
And that's why Osteopathy Europe as a forum is particularly important in order to try and keep momentum behind some of these changes happening. yeah I totally agree with you and ah just just a statement from here in regards to how osteopathy Europe works. so so Because I think that's also maybe important for for the people who are listening. So so we are 23 organizations across Europe plus ah three other organizations outside from Europe, ah Canada, Israel and Brazil.
00:18:02
Speaker
so And we are working closely together in regards to many different subjects. For instance, we have formalized the four committees. So research committee, policy committee, and ah communication task force and ah education committee.
00:18:19
Speaker
and And we do host two conferences on an annual basis. So as as Matthew said, we we had a conference in March that was held in June.
00:18:32
Speaker
in Mallorca. so And we are going to host, the next conference will be hosted by our good colleagues in Wiesbaden in Germany. so And the theme for that conference will be regulation. And Matthew, you will be highly involved. I just sent you the scheme the other day, so you will practically be in a recession of both days.
00:18:51
Speaker
so so So what we do is to try to come together and and try to unify the profession more and give, for instance, the the countries who do not yet have regulation, to give them some good tools to to go back to the country, to speak with the politicians, to to do the lobby work, because it is a lobby work, um to lobby for the profession to get more recognition and more regulation, and on a different level.
00:19:21
Speaker
So osteopathy Europe is kind of a good platform where we all meet up and compete increase our strengths and go back to to our organization with ah with with inspiration and some good ideas and collaboration. so so it's it's a it's a really good communication and collaboration platform, to be honest.
00:19:43
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think that's one of the things i've I've sort of really valued about those sort of discussions um that I was but involved in earlier in the year and will be in in a few weeks time.
00:19:55
Speaker
We really value that whole diversity of voice. You know, we want to hear those different views, that that that those sort of different opinions and and having a space and a forum where there can be open, honest, frank conversation about the challenges that exist.
00:20:10
Speaker
I think that's that's really beneficial. you know Yes, there's been regulation in the UK for a good number of years. We don't have all of the answers and we don't proclaim to have all of the answers, but having the opportunity to hear from others across different countries, different jurisdictions about similar challenges, different approaches that can be taken, that's really beneficial. and And being able to bring that insight back into the work that we do in the UK only strengthens what we what we do as an organisation.
00:20:38
Speaker
and being able to share our knowledge and our experience with our friends and neighbours in Europe and further afield, um hopefully enhances what happens in those countries as well.
00:20:49
Speaker
And you know bringing it back, there is that of core purpose of you know how can we work together, how can we collaborate so in order to ensure that there is regulation for the benefit of patients and for the benefit of the profession at large.
00:21:03
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:21:07
Speaker
What work is Osteopathy Europe doing currently?
Research and Standards in Osteopathy Europe
00:21:10
Speaker
So you mentioned those those those four kind of key areas of focus and the committees that support Hannah. Are there some sort of key projects that are underway?
00:21:18
Speaker
yeah yeah so Yes, they are, definitely. so At the moment the research committee is working on a pediatric project which so which will be quite exciting to see the results from. so At the moment they we are actually and or they are kind of ah exploring how ah certain techniques, how HVLA techniques or if they are being utilized in the pediatric population.
00:21:46
Speaker
So that will be a quite interesting project. and Another one, which is which is a big one, is the revision of the SEND standard. So we got our own standard for the osteopathic profession in Europe in 2015. And G.O.S. was also highly involved in that.
00:22:05
Speaker
and So that standard needs to be It needs to be reissued every five year interval, but due to COVID etc.
00:22:17
Speaker
ah this has been delayed. and So we need a revision of the standard, which will be which is a project which which we will start on next year. and So that will be something that we will be focusing on for at least two or even might even be three years time.
00:22:34
Speaker
It doesn't feel like 10 years since that came out. so ah No, it doesn't. Time flies. It does. But definitely since then, we have actually confirmed the standard once. so And now we we definitely need to look into it because we need to describe the core values of what what can an osteopath do after being educated. so So this is something that we need to look better into.
00:22:58
Speaker
um So the SEND standard in this pediatric project and one of the other big projects, would from my opinion and and in my opinion, is is a project that I think our colleagues around Europe will be quite happy for one it when it will be finished, hopefully.
00:23:14
Speaker
And that is exploring the osteopathic identity. um I don't know if you've been following this on social media, but over the years I've just noticed that there is...
00:23:26
Speaker
ah frustration from many colleagues who are kind of, you know, they're worrying about what is our identity and what is the the true osteopathic identity. So and that would be interesting. interesting So and an osteopathic research committee will do a DELFI study to try to explore this, meaning that every organization in Europe will be engaged in this project. so And that that's going to take some time, at least two years.
00:23:56
Speaker
But I think this would be a game changer for many and many colleagues and also institutions around osteopathy Europe. um What are we else doing? we ah We do issue the regulation overview. I don't know if both of you, I'm sure that Matthew has seen it. i don't know if if you've seen it, Stephen, as well.
00:24:16
Speaker
No, it's a it's an overview of regulation of our profession in Europe. Oh, I have seen that. Yes, I have seen that. You have seen it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is something that needs to be updated on a regular basis.
00:24:28
Speaker
We are also doing exploring road to regulation, meaning that we are interviewing the... and we're interviewing some key persons in the countries where the profession is regulated to try to learn more from, yeah you know, what what should we do more of for the countries who are not yet regulated, who are not, where the profession is not yet regulated.
00:24:52
Speaker
So we're trying to explore the ways how can we improve the cooperation, what can we do better, and and and how can we help the the organization who needs to, you know, move further with regulation.
00:25:05
Speaker
um So I think basically, those are the primary projects of osteopathic Europe at the moment, at least. it's it's quite ah It's quite an impressive checklist of kind of key osteopathic identity and regulation and scope of practice. sp Yeah, we are quite busy to be honest. but But what I think and what I've seen as a strength of the organization and has been increasing over the year is the collaboration, the cooperation of all our membership, meaning that in each and every committee,
00:25:37
Speaker
you have different persons, key persons from different organizations, from different countries in Europe, and even Canada, you know. So we we are well joined, and and obviously our colleagues also in Brazil. So...
00:25:50
Speaker
So we um we um myd we are much member organized and and we are rich in regards to the engagement for members from all over Europe and and beyond, as I said before.
00:26:04
Speaker
And this is something that has changed because only 10 years ago it wasn't like this. So did today, Osteopath Europe is much more flat structure, which we like. it's It's bigger contribution for more from more persons all around Europe and beyond.
00:26:20
Speaker
And that's something that I think has been, you know, it means that the profession is flourishing in many more countries than it and than it was before. And we can also see, for instance, and in Holland, the yeah they got the education in in place two years ago ah one and a half year ago, maybe.
00:26:40
Speaker
So we have a new bachelor education in Holland. and We know that our colleagues in Luxembourg, some of our but colleagues and colleagues, yes, a great lady from Iceland, who I also met last weekend in in Iceland, she's a professor, so they are starting a new brand new education, five years master's programme in Luxembourg. So there are some really good things going on in Europe.
00:27:05
Speaker
So not just within Osteopathy Europe, but Osteopathy Europe is a good platform for people to meet also ah people coming from outside. so So, yes, I guess that we have quite many tasks that we are working on at the moment. I don't know if I forgot something, Matthew.
00:27:22
Speaker
ah yeah I don't think you did, Hannah. I think, as you say, it's so it it is it is a vast list. But I think, you know, one of the the things which is is really powerful, and you did you did touch upon this, was the relationships that exist between the people that are in the room.
00:27:35
Speaker
And that's so important. And not just for when the conversations are taking place within the the online forums that we have or the in-person meetings, But if there's a query or a problem that crops up in a particular country, we've got those contacts that we can reach out and we can have those sort conversations. And it is really relational regulation happening in real in real time. And, you know prime example is I had ah a message from ah a colleague of ours from Ireland.
00:28:02
Speaker
um earlier in the week and we were able to just exchange a few quick WhatsApp messages and move forward with that particular sort of query that arose. So having those contacts, having those relationships, streamlines communication, enables so potential problems or barriers to be swept aside so easily and so and smoothly.
00:28:22
Speaker
And so and and just um it just strengthens the the the whole the whole profession across the across the continent. So being able to sort of reach out and you know share a problem, get different views, and then have different ways that that can be sort of navigated or mitigated against in the future.
00:28:40
Speaker
um you can't put a price on that. And it's it's much better to be in the room, hearing what's taking place, listening to those sort of ah sort of diverse views than being on the outside and wondering what's happening.
00:28:54
Speaker
So, you know, I'm delighted that the General Osteopathic Council in the UK um with our sort of colleagues from the Institute of Osteopathy and Incore, were able to be in the room sharing, understanding and and and and listening to, you know, a whole heap of esteemed colleagues from across Europe. Hmm.
Balancing Practice with Leadership Roles
00:29:15
Speaker
Hannah, you're an osteopath as well, and you still you still practice as an osteopath. How do you balance your your kind of practice with patients, with with the kind of the bigger political campaigning stuff as well? Yeah. well i it's It's actually quite interesting, and that and it's... um Well, love doing both, to be honest. It's it's two different things, but but still it's it's really connected because I think when you are so much in touch with your profession, you do you treat clients, do you see different clients? It's so important for the professional work within the organizations as well.
00:29:51
Speaker
and it It is kind of balanced. I don't sleep that much. but ah And and at at some point, obviously, i I will be stepping down as the president of Osteopathy Europe next year in March.
00:30:04
Speaker
Then I've been serving as the president for seven years and being in the organization for many more years. so But it's a it's it's super interesting, it's and it super motivating, and I get so much out of it. So I will just say if if there are any people listening to this at some point, I would just advise if you would like to go into more health politics. so So absolutely did join the I.O. or the General Orthopedic Council or utilize the opportunities that you have because it's so it's a great combination.
00:30:37
Speaker
It is a great combination. So if you are motivated to do some other things than the clinical work, it's it's a great opportunity to join the bigger organizations. um But yes, it's a I don't find it difficult to balance.
00:30:52
Speaker
The only thing is that we only have 24 hours. and but Anyway, but it it it goes quite well. You know, it's it fits quite well to each other. so yeah with With everything that you do, Hannah, I'm surprised to learn in this podcast that you've actually got time to sleep.
00:31:08
Speaker
i didn't think that you I didn't think that you did. do, but not that many hours. Ten minutes a day, whether she needs it or not. Yeah, but yeah, it it it actually fits quite well together, to be honest. And yeah, it's inspiring to be a clinician and and at the same time also be able to to work on an organizational level.
00:31:29
Speaker
It means that you are speaking with a... otherwise you you you Basically, you know what you are doing. And I can give you an example that that has nothing to do with osteopathy, europe but I'm also president of the Danish Association. So at some point, we were we were reviewing the... yeah the medical notes, how to write notes and and how much should, you know, how how how deeply into the history, you know, anamnesis and la la la, how much should we cover in our notes?
00:31:57
Speaker
And at some point they were, you know, trying to ah trying to expand on some segments within these notes. And I was like, this is not possible. So you can't, you know, even not one hour would not even cover just the basic history notes. So anyway, and the examination. So it helps a lot to be a clinician as well when you're doing this work, to be honest.
00:32:22
Speaker
So i've been I've been super happy about this combination and I'm definitely and I will definitely recommend it to everyone who would look who were the like to look into this organizational work as well.
00:32:34
Speaker
Well, your
Dedication to Osteopathy
00:32:35
Speaker
enthusiasm for it has has definitely come through in this conversation, I think, really. You're a good advert for both. Well, at some point, my colleague said, well, it's good that you're not married anymore because you're kind of married to the osteopathic profession.
00:32:51
Speaker
So, yes, basically, I think he was right. But yeah. osteopathy is not just a profession for me it's um yeah it's it's my life yeah yeah i mean with the with the identity i mean we we we have a little talk in advance don't we about things we're going to ask and i didn't say about this but you very you raise the issue of osteopathic identity and your your um your background is as a physio as well isn't it you weren't you a physio originally yeah Yes. what What's your i mean, do you have a view on osteopathic identity at this point? i mean, it sounds like, you know, you've you've got a clear from your from your experience and your practice. And, you know, it sounds like you've got a clear sort of view of what it is.
00:33:34
Speaker
Yeah, well, basically the reason for why I shifted profession was I was a fuchsia for a and football team and we were on they were on training camps in ah and France, in Marseille.
00:33:49
Speaker
And there was an osteopath who came over because i've i was you know when you're fuchsia, you're treating the players from you know early in the morning to late in the evening.
00:34:01
Speaker
And this French osteopath came over and said to me, no good, no good. He didn't speak that good English, and I definitely don't speak French at all. So we were kind of, you know, using body language. and like las So no, this is not good.
00:34:15
Speaker
Use to study osteopathy. And I was like, okay what is osteopathy? And then he came with an article about osteopathy. in English. so So when I came home, that was in 2000, well, 25 years ago.
00:34:29
Speaker
um When I came back home, um there was this course option, so kind of conversion course only for physios, medical doctors. And that was the first time that osteopathy was being brought to to Denmark. And I started Actually, I thought it was all old i thought it was only weekend courses when I started. So anyway, so this this is how I moved into osteopathy.
00:34:54
Speaker
and For me, osteopathy has been ah very different it's it's a very different way of seeing people so It's a whole person approach, which I think even I know many professionals would say, and even physiotherapies also hold, hold, hold personal approach, I will say, maybe I was not just educated in that way as a physio.
00:35:20
Speaker
So for me, it was a, it was an eye opener. So a whole person approach. and meaning that you didn't see condition when people are coming in your practice. You are seeing a whole person with some symptoms ah which you need to navigate and see. So where where does the symptoms come from and how does this relate to lifestyle, for instance, or other symptoms in the body? or So it's it's a whole person approach. I think that was the biggest eye-opener for me, at least.
00:35:55
Speaker
Does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that equates to my kind of experience as well. although I didn't come from a physio background, came from a legal background, but kind of similar, sure similar, similar thing of experiencing an osteopath actually. Yeah, not osteopathy at first, but meeting an osteopath who, who just seemed to convey a sense of calm about him that got me interested in the profession.
00:36:21
Speaker
and Yeah, yeah. when I first trained and i subsequently realized it it wasn't representative of the profession, but of him, but it still got me into it anyway. yeah ah Interesting. Yeah.
00:36:32
Speaker
But it is, so and I think the generally biggest difference between me as I was before as a physio, and I'm not speaking on behalf of the physiotherapy profession, but definitely the whole person approach. That was a game changer for me.
00:36:47
Speaker
um and And also, and I think this is something that we need to remember, we are not just providing manual therapy, we are providing healthcare for people, person centred healthcare. And
Holistic Approach in Osteopathy
00:37:01
Speaker
I think this is super important to stretch because what I've been experiencing also in the political landscape is that many think that we are only doing manual therapy, passive treatment.
00:37:13
Speaker
And like, no, we are doing whole person, person-centered health care. This is what we are delivering each and every day to each and every consultation. And this is something that is surprising for many stakeholders.
00:37:25
Speaker
So I think we need to be better in regards to educate ah our stakeholders and the you know external ah external world that we are not just doing manual therapy.
00:37:36
Speaker
And I think that's super important too. And I think that brings us back to that sort of point where we discussing earlier, wasn't it, around, you know, what does regulation provide? What does it provide for um registrants? What does it provide for the patients? And then what does that enable other organisations to to to take forward? So, you know, the professional association to be able to sort of um take those particular ideas that you just mentioned, sort of how to lobby for them, promote them,
00:38:04
Speaker
push them, raise awareness of the profession more more more widely, um you know regulation gives gives that foundation and gives that base. three Excellent. Well,
Conclusion and Acknowledgments
00:38:15
Speaker
well thank thank you both. I mean, that's been a really interesting ah conversation. And if anyone didn't know about the work of Osteopathy Europe, they do now, if they've listened to this, because that's been a really a really kind of ah excellent overview of everything that you do and delivered with such an enthusiasm um for the profession and for regulation as well, which ah which is which is great to hear. So thank you so much for for ah talking with us today, both of you.
00:38:44
Speaker
um And ah we will put some links on the notes to Osteopathy Europe's website and so you can find out more information as well and explore some of the projects that Hannah's been talking about.
00:38:59
Speaker
So thanks both. And yeah, we'll ah see you again sometime soon. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Hannah. and Thank you, Matthew.