Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Mentorship with Claire Piper
47 Plays3 months ago
Welcome to the General Osteopathic Council podcast. In this episode, Steven Bettles, Head of Policy at GOsC, speaks with fellow osteopath Claire Piper about mentorship. Claire shares why mentorship is really useful, not only to less experienced osteopaths who may be looking for support, but also for the osteopaths who have been in the profession a long time and may benefit from becoming a mentor themselves.
Institute of Osteopathy Mentoring Platform: https://www.iosteopathy.org/members-zone/cpd-learning-and-development/mentoring/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Osteopathic Mentorship
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the General Osteopathic Council podcast. In each episode, we speak with experts and colleagues about topics affecting the osteopathic profession and our work as regulator for osteopaths. Answering questions we get asked a lot by osteopaths, patients, and members of the public. I'm Stephen Bettle, Head of Policy and Education at the General Osteopathic Council, so and my guest today is fellow osteopath, Claire Piper. Welcome, Claire. Hello. Thank you for having me.
00:00:37
Speaker
You're very welcome. We're here today to discuss mentorship, something we see at the GE Oscars as really useful, not only to less experienced osteopaths who may be looking for support, but also for osteopaths who've been in the profession for a long time and may benefit from becoming a mentor themselves.
Understanding Mentorship vs. Coaching
00:00:54
Speaker
Claire, firstly, can you just tell us about yourself and your work as an osteopath?
00:00:58
Speaker
ah Yes, so I've actually been in practice for 33 years this year, which always makes me very surprised and makes me feel very old. I graduated from the ESO in Maidstone. I've got a private practice near Tumbridge Wells in Wardhurst. I'm there one and a half days a week with my associate as well.
00:01:22
Speaker
Then I'm a clinic tutor and a lecturer at BCNO Group, three days of the week. So in London I lecture Year 3 pediatrics and I also tutor up in London at the pediatric clinic at BCOM. And then in Kent I a tutor at the Children's Clinic in Maidstone.
00:01:46
Speaker
I'm also regional group lead for Kent and East Sussex Osteopaths, or KESO for short, and I've been doing that for 12 years. So we've got over 250 members and we organise CPD events and networking opportunities for osteopaths in that area. And I've also been a mentor for five and a half years.
00:02:09
Speaker
excellent That's a really broad experience, isn't it? ah Clinical work, educator, regional lead, mentor, all of those things. That's excellent. line Thank you. Before we talk about mentorship, what what do we mean by mentorship? Perhaps can give me your thoughts about what we actually mean.
00:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, um I think it's important to talk about this first. So one of the things I would say, first of all, is that the mentoring agenda is always entirely driven by the mentee. I think that's a really important distinction to make. So if you were thinking of mentoring someone, a new graduate, and you were thinking, well,
00:02:52
Speaker
They really need to improve their neurological testing. And I really need to go over orthopedic testing with them, make sure that's spot on. And, you know, and I need to do this and I need to do that. That would be training. That wouldn't be mentoring.
00:03:10
Speaker
So in a mentoring relationship, all of the topics come from the mentee. It's all about what they want to talk about. Also, mentees are responsible for what they get out of the mentoring relationship. That's not your responsibility as their mentor.
00:03:28
Speaker
So really what we do as mentors is we use our life lessons and our experiences to both empower and guide our mentees. And we try to give them our insight and the wisdom that we've gained so that we can allow them to make the choices that are right for them. It's also important, I think, to say that mentors are always volunteers as well. There's never a financial gain from mentoring and I think that that's important to keep money out of that relationship. Obviously coaches and trainers they could be volunteers but usually they're getting paid and usually with coaching and training there is some preset agenda set by the coach or trainer.
00:04:16
Speaker
which you never get with mentoring. And also coaches and trainers probably share some degree of responsibility for the learning because they are actually responsible for setting the learning goals. So a mentor really is primarily a guide and not a teacher, although there will always be elements of coaching and training that come into the mentoring relationship.
00:04:41
Speaker
And I have a favorite book called The Mentoring Manual by Julie Starr. And there's a very good quote in that book, which is that, mentors are the guardians of the flame of potential within another. Oh, I like that. And I actually really like that quote. I think it sums up the relationship very well.
Claire's Journey to Mentorship
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah. So it's about sharing your experience and insights in order to help someone develop rather than setting goals yeah specifically. Yeah. And make the choices that they need to make and kind of walk with them along that path of that first year in practice and, you know, hopefully make it a bit less rocky. and Why did you decide to become a mentor? What was your sort of rationale and motivation for doing this?
00:05:30
Speaker
I mean working in education it was a bit of a natural progression for me really. I remember talking to final year students as they were coming up for graduation and you know it struck me all the uncertainty there was about graduating and and starting work and you know working maybe on their own and you know obviously working in a different place. Some of them were moving abroad and they just had so many questions that it just made me realise that actually, hang on a minute, a bit of guidance here would actually go down very well. And I also actually really enjoy, having seen them as students, I really enjoy keeping in touch with new graduates.
00:06:19
Speaker
and still seeing how they're getting on from a personal perspective. So I thought that would be a good combination for me to start mentoring. And and what's been your approach to to developing this as ah as an activity? Because you're busy, aren't you? I mean, you do a lot of you do a lot of things within the profession. ah So how did you develop this?
00:06:39
Speaker
um well the ah ah Way back, I can't actually remember when, but it was a good good few years, maybe four or five, maybe even six years ago. I went to the Osteopathic Development Group Mentoring Training Day. They had one at GEOS headquarters up in London. It was very well attended and I found that a really good starting point for me. um and It introduced me to things like the mentor code of practice.
00:07:09
Speaker
and also the mentoring agreement which I've actually used ever since. So that was the thing that kind of launched me, if you like. Then I went back to college and I picked on a Year 4 student and I asked her if she wanted a mentor and luckily she said yes. um So she was my first mentee.
00:07:32
Speaker
And I started seeing mentees initially at my home. So I did that for a couple of years. I would see them once a month for about an hour and a half, and I would see them through their first year of practice.
00:07:47
Speaker
Then with my third mentee, I actually moved to online mentoring just because she was too far away. And I actually found that I was a bit nervous about that initially, because I thought, well, you know this is quite a sort of personal relationship. How is this going to work? But actually, it was fine. It it works it works just as well. And I've remained online ever since.
Group Mentoring: Benefits and Logistics
00:08:11
Speaker
I i haven't gone back to in-person mentoring.
00:08:14
Speaker
I then decided after her, I decided, well, I could probably cope with the group. of mentees so I thought that it would be a benefit to the mentees themselves to have other peers around who were going through similar things and that they could support each other as well as getting support from me and also of course for me it meant that I could support more people so I moved to mentoring a group and I'm now on my second group
00:08:48
Speaker
The membership tends to be rolling because some people don't want to stay for 12 months, which is fine, ah you know, due to different commitments or what they're doing. So we have a rolling membership and we also have a WhatsApp group for all my current mentees so that we can communicate between sessions. I still see people once a month.
00:09:10
Speaker
And I still keep it to an hour and a half because that works for me. And, you know, yeah it's important to set these boundaries for what is going to be sustainable for you as a mentor from the outset. Most of my mentees have come from BCNO Group, obviously, because I'm lucky in that way in that I'm surrounded by potential new graduates. But I've also got some of my mentees from the Kezzo Regional Group as well.
00:09:39
Speaker
My initial thoughts about groups were that I would take four students from the same cohort through a one year journey was my kind of original plan. Currently I've got three people who I'm mentoring in a group and I've got one person who I'm mentoring individually, which is fine. You know, it's just circumstances and what what is best for the individual.
00:10:05
Speaker
and the three people that i've got they actually come from different cohorts which ah although that's not what i planned it's actually it's worked out okay because of different levels of experience and you know they they have supported each other and played off each other and then in september i decided that actually i would support entire cohorts from BCNO in much looser terms via Facebook groups. So I set up two Facebook groups, one for the London cohort, one for the Kent cohort, and I asked fellow tutors to join so that there was a sort of link back to to college tutors.
00:10:49
Speaker
And I've tried to encourage them to discuss cases or um practice challenges. And I've also, obviously in my position as Kezzo Chair, I've been able to offer them either free or very low cost CPD opportunities as well.
00:11:05
Speaker
And also I started doing online peer support sessions, so ah just a very loose kind of open session, just just for an hour online um every few months where they can just come and drop in, have a chat, ask some questions. It's not really mentoring, it was a very loose mentoring, but hopefully that still offers some benefits to people.
00:11:29
Speaker
So that's a broad brush then from direct individual mentoring, group mentoring, and ah a kind of enhanced alumni support scheme, I guess, really, isn't it? yeah In many ways. What's gone well, do you think? If you, you know, looking back now on how, how things have progressed over the last two or three years, you know, what, what would you say has been the successes of the project?
00:11:53
Speaker
Well, I think the groups have worked well and I do think that, I mean, I have i have asked for feedback and I do think that people have ah benefited from listening to their peers within those groups and also listening to their peer opinion ah as well as my own on on different cases that they bring.
00:12:15
Speaker
I felt that they've collaborated well and I think that they have gained um insight from listening to the topics that other people bring and maybe the struggles that other people are having and the discussions that we've had from those.
00:12:31
Speaker
I enjoy the individual sessions. when you're and When you're mentoring someone individually, you can dive very deep into their own sort of personal challenges. um I quite enjoy that, so i've I've always enjoyed that and continue to do so.
00:12:49
Speaker
and the cohort work I hope has just been able to kind of keep people together, offered a communication route. They have they have responded and they have they have come back with questions. um People have attended the peer support sessions and also they've attended the CPD.
00:13:12
Speaker
which obviously is a new graduate, you still need to do your CPD hours but you're not necessarily earning that much money. So I think they've benefited from having that either free or very cheap. And what are the challenges? because ah I mean mentoring is something I guess that is I know the Institute of Osteopathy have been very keen to promote and support And you've been doing this this kind of sterling work, but it's still something probably that isn't that widespread within the profession.
Challenges in Mentoring Relationships
00:13:42
Speaker
And I guess that's because there are some challenges. that what would you yeah what have What have you experienced? Yeah. I mean, the the biggest things I think that come back to me when I asked people about being a mentor is always time. Yeah.
00:13:59
Speaker
so there is There is obviously a time commitment, um but it doesn't have to be huge. you know An hour and a half every month, ah most people could fit in. and If you've got issues with time, then you set boundaries at the beginning you know and and you make it very clear.
00:14:17
Speaker
About what you can and cannot do and what you can and cannot commit to it you know you don't have to be bombarded. Are you many every single day with trillions of questions you just set out what is right for you from the start but the other thing that can happen of course is personality clashes.
00:14:36
Speaker
If when you choose someone to be a mentee you might not know them that well or you might only know them within a certain context and as you start to get to know them better that's always potentially going to happen that things are just not going to work out.
00:14:52
Speaker
And also there can be clashes within, when you're doing groups, there can be clashes within the groups, of course, between the mentees themselves, you know, to get very sort of stroppy about how someone responds or or that someone always is taking over and, you know, all those kinds of group dynamics. yeah So it's in my mentoring agreement, I have, that I get everybody to sign at the beginning, I have a no blame exit route.
00:15:20
Speaker
for all of these kinds of scenarios. And I think that that's really important. For either party, for the mentor or the mentor. For either party, yes. Yes, I think it's really important that you are able to have that right from the start so that everybody knows that, look, if this really isn't working out for me, I just need to go. And that everybody's going to say, fine, sorry, it hasn't worked, but good luck.
00:15:46
Speaker
and Also, so I think it's really important to have opportunities for feedback at regular intervals. I usually ask about every six months for some feedback on how it's going from my mentees. and You need to be open to that as a mentor you know to make sure that you're you're doing the best job. and Also, they need to be open to it as mentees as well.
00:16:11
Speaker
It can get really frustrating if you have a lack of engagement from a mentee, particularly if you're doing one-to-one work. For it to be successful, you really need a mentee that's really able to reflect and to really kind of be on it, you know, and be on time, give you their full attention, having reflected on what they want to discuss, and also someone who is you know willing to learn willing to um develop. And that doesn't always happen. And also as a mentor, you might find that you are actually not very engaged with this particular mentee either. um And you also need to be honest about that. And you know, why is that happening? Maybe you've just got too much on. Maybe you need a break. Maybe the relationship just isn't working. So then there needs to be some honesty there.
00:17:11
Speaker
And mentees can definitely develop issues with their mentor and the way that they communicate with them or the way they're giving advice. um So I always ask my mentees to have somebody else that they can talk to about me.
00:17:30
Speaker
Because I would never want them to feel trapped within our mentoring relationship and thinking, ah God, you know I really don't like what Claire's doing. But I've got no one else that I can talk to about, really, I need to talk to my mentor about what Claire's doing, but Claire's my mentor. yeah and so you know i And so I don't want them to feel like that.
The Impact of Mentorship on Osteopathy
00:17:51
Speaker
So there are challenges then to this, but... Yes, there are. There must be benefits though, I mean... Oh yes, there are. There are definite benefits as well. For for both the mentee and the mentor, I've always found when I've been a mentor that as a mentor, i i I probably got as much from the process as as the mentee, but I think so anyway, um yeah that that actually I found it hugely developmental for me as a mentor. Is that something you found as well?
00:18:21
Speaker
Oh, yes, I have. Definitely. I've learned a huge amount from being a mentor. Yeah. But I think also as a mentor, when you're interacting with um students and new graduates, their knowledge base is usually very, very fresh. And the topics also that they bring for discussion can be very challenging. you know They can raise something that you've not thought about for years. And actually that challenge to you um and that reflection that you do for yourself
00:18:52
Speaker
can obviously lead to CPD hours for yourself and also to developments in your own practice as well. yeah And I think that mentoring also improves your communication and your listening skills. If you're going to commit to it and sort of do it well, then then by default really, you you have to become a good listener and and a better communicator.
00:19:16
Speaker
And it's just an opportunity really to give something back. I know I had good mentors, postgraduate actually, my mentors more, and I was very grateful to them. And if you've had that kind of opportunity at college or postgraduate, then you're just giving something back and helping the profession. And actually There can be isolation within new graduates when they first go out and maybe you'd be making a real difference to a new graduate and preventing them from feeling isolated and potentially unsupported and possibly leaving the profession.
00:19:57
Speaker
as opposed to remaining as a confident member of the profession. Yeah. I mean, and I know that obviously there are osteopaths who work ah in in the NHS, not anywhere near as many who work in independent practice, but there are. And allied health professions generally have experienced a higher than they would want.
00:20:21
Speaker
rate of of people leaving their professions within the first kind of five years of practice and have developed different ways of supporting that kind of transitional process in HS have a Presetorship scheme which is a kind of ah a sort of structured mentorship I guess really free for it for exactly those reasons and I guess you know sort of extrapolating that to osteopathy it seems to me that if If we all assume that responsibility of developing the profession, and this could be someone who works with you at your practice, but it may not be. And if you kind of, I know the Institute of Osteopathy have a mentoring platform where you can... Yeah. engage with others who are keen to either be a mentor or a mentee and and and connect with someone that you may not have any you know knowledge or experience with, that kind of providing that support more broadly is something that helps the profession. It's an unusual profession, I guess, in that you can graduate from all that support and tutoring and structure that you have as a student. And then that that's all gone and you have
00:21:26
Speaker
Potentially, for some people, there isn't even when they work in an established practice, sometimes there isn't that kind of direct contact with them the principal or the owner of that that that practice. And it can be quite isolating. We know this from our work with them new grads. So, yeah, it seems to me that this is an investment in the future of the profession as much as as much as anything, I guess. Yes, yeah and the feedback I've had from mentees has ranged from, you know for the benefits, has ranged from literally being a rock to cling to in those first six months, you know not knowing what they were doing or where they were going, just to kind of providing useful guidance and advice really.
00:22:07
Speaker
and Generally, I just get the sense that my mentees just find it useful to have somebody to fall back on regarding cases or practice matters. and You can't always discuss those things with your principal, no it especially if they involve your principal. It's sometimes nice to have somebody you know outside of your work that you can talk to.
00:22:33
Speaker
No, and this that's that's that's very true. I was just thinking as well in terms of how all this relates to the osteopathic practice standards as you know working for the regulator, they're never far from my mind. um And osteopaths, as we all know, and I'm one of them, I still have to do CPD, although I don't see patients these days, I'm still registered.
00:22:51
Speaker
And we need to demonstrate how our CPD equates to the four themes of the practice standards. And there and the the standard D9, you must support colleagues and cooperate with them to enhance patient care. Actually, some of the guidance to that talks about if you're responsible for an associate or an assistant, you should provide professional support.
00:23:10
Speaker
and adequate resources for them so they're able to offer appropriate care to patients. So, I mean, that could encompass mentoring. It doesn't necessarily, but i'd'd I'd suggest that the kind of work that you've been talking around does enhance patient care and does support colleagues and cooperate with them. And it's, ah as you said, you know the benefit of being a mentor is also having that as continuing professional development and relating that to that professionalism team of the practice standards as well. so yeah i win win i wouldn't want some I wouldn't want every principal though to think that they had to mentor their associates and but that was part of what they do. yeah I agree. I think there is a difference I think as you've explained very well and sometimes it's useful to have that mentor outside the clinic or the organization or whatever in which you
00:24:00
Speaker
are actually work just to get that objective perspective. Yeah, yeah yeah I mean you can you can obviously support ah a new associate in in other ways other than other than mentoring them. But yeah, I mean sometimes I wonder whether it's a good idea to be honest to mentor your associate. I just i just wonder sometimes, although I've done it, i um i I'm not sure if it's the best thing. yeah Just because you can never take your principal hat off. And I think that leaves then it leaves areas that are sort of a no-go. Yeah, especially have an investment in them, don't you? as as the ah you know there's ah There's another interest in that. there is another interest. And I think for the mentee, it would definitely there would definitely be areas that they felt they couldn't talk to you about. And within that relationship, it ideally should be completely open and able to talk about anything. So that's why.
00:25:03
Speaker
We find this with the, um I don't want to go on too much about the CPD scheme specifically, but we find this with the kind of peer discussion review at the end of that CPD cycle that some people are very happy and it seems the obvious choice for them, you know, the principle of their practice will be there.
00:25:19
Speaker
peer reviewer and others are kind of you know, we definitely didn't want that and and yeah we Seek support or or discussion with someone kind of completely outside of their day-to-day Work as well. So um yeah, no idea. I do understand. I think they're definitely right on that Finally, what advice would you give to someone kind of interested in becoming a ah mentor or a minty I guess? I if you're interested or thinking about becoming a mentor, I think you need to talk to other people who are already doing it. So people like me or people through the IO who've registered on their platform. The other thing I believe very strongly in is support for mentors. I think it's unreasonable
00:26:05
Speaker
to expect somebody to become a mentor and then just to leave them to it. So I set up a mentor support group online um and we meet every couple of months and we have a WhatsApp group and got eight members at the moment and it's open to anybody who is either interested in mentoring or is a mentor and it's also multidisciplinary. We work with the Sports Therapy Association as well And it's just a useful forum to talk about you know these challenges that come up. you know it's not all It's not always easy. And just to talk through with colleagues about what you're doing, maybe improve your practice with mentoring, and just talk about mentoring, really. um there's you know There's not many opportunities to to talk about mentoring. So I would always advise that somebody tries to find support for themselves.
00:27:00
Speaker
And the IO mentoring platform does have a lot of information on it. It's got some very good videos that you can watch and resources. And then you do need to consider the time commitment. um And can you stick with that? It's an important consideration.
00:27:17
Speaker
and Then I would just say to someone, register on that IO platform so that people can see you, say what your kind of areas of expertise are. The other people you could go to is your local regional group as well because they might have people in in their group that are seeking a mentor.
00:27:37
Speaker
So yeah i i think i would say that to people wanting to become a mentor and then for mentees they can also go to the io platform and they can find a mentor through that.
00:27:49
Speaker
or through their regional group and also as a mentee like I said you also need to consider the commitment to your time and you also need to consider your commitment to the process and to the reflection that it requires and that it's going to be your responsibility to get the most out of this process and just have a real think about you know whether you're happy with that.
00:28:14
Speaker
But if anybody is interested in becoming a mentor, then I'm very happy to talk to them. And I think my contact details are going to be with this podcast. That's right. Well, Claire, thank you so much for talking us through what you've been doing. I mean, it's really excellent work, I think. And I've seen you kind of like develop this and and implement it. And it's it's really impressive. So thank you for that. And thank you for for talking to us today. As Claire says, we'll put the links to the various resources and the IO platform and other bits and pieces in the show notes so you can access them there, including Claire's contact details as well. So Claire, thanks again. It's been really interesting. Thank you. Thanks.