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Episode 278: What is a legacy?
69 Plays21 hours ago
Southampton – We want to talk about managers, and the legacy they leave behind along the way.
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Transcript
Introduction and Setup
00:00:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hello and welcome to the Daily Southampton, part of the Global Sports Podcast Network. My name is Greg Elliott and as always today, joined by my good friend and wonderful co-host, Zach Ingo Finch.
00:00:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
How you doing, mate? You alright?
00:00:27
Zak
Yeah, too bad, mate. Too bad.
Controversy: Will Steele's Debut
00:00:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Today, I've seen Zach some chatter after, you know, let's face it, a disappointing result in the South Coast Derby. I've seen some outrageous calls from that people aren't happy with Will Steele already once he's gone, which is, and I'm going to put this on the record, the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard after Chex Notes, one game with a squad of players he bought in one transfer window.
00:00:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, you go on and think, mate.
Impact of Past Managers
00:01:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
Managers a lasting legacy. We talked a bit, somewhat controversially in our review episode about some of the hangover effects of Russell Martin and, uh, the effect that might may or may not still be having on the squad. So we thought we'd take a look back at what the last decade and, uh, and go from there.
00:01:20
Zak
Yeah. Sounds good mate.
00:01:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, uh, yeah, just talk about the managers, what their lasting legacy and their lasting memories, uh, to us as the fans are, because, well, they're not all great, are they?
00:01:35
Zak
Yeah, it's it's one of these it's one of these things when it comes to ex-managers that like you know there are some people that are going to remember the the but tactics and there's going to be some people that going remember...
00:01:51
Zak
you know specific games and there's going to be some people that remember the players and like and you kind of associate it with the managerial era the know about you but that's kind of how ii I don't really remember the years as much as nowadays as more of like the the the managers themselves and kind of what I remember happening under their reign and I think that's where
00:02:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm-hmm.
00:02:15
Zak
ah ah Sometimes I can sort of talk about a past period of time and the way that manager is. And what I actually mean is just like what i what the vibes are, which I can't really explain.
00:02:27
Zak
Like i'm not going to able explain in a foot-wing term, mate. Like I'm not claiming to be an expert.
00:02:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
No, it makes sense,
Cultural Influence of Managers
00:02:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
right?
00:02:31
Zak
So...
00:02:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Because one of the main things that a manager does is bring a certain culture and a certain atmosphere to a club. And, you know, that equates to the vibes off and on the pitch, right? You know, we we've seen it to the extremes last season with Russell Martin, who was a charismatic, chatty, everyone's mate, bloke, happy-go-lucky.
00:02:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, you know, Juric with Yes, no, no, yes, yes. Three and a half minutes press conference, done. Good luck with your article, Alfie House.
00:03:06
Zak
Well, I see even even like Pellegrino, which we'll probably get to at some point, but like i I remember someone like bumping into him in Champagne Charlies. And other than that, I can barely remember a word that he said the entirety of the time that he was in charge of our club.
00:03:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
look, mate, look, let's...
00:03:21
Zak
like that's That's what I mean. I feel like if you're talked about at the very least, it means that you had an impact, right?
00:03:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:03:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, well, look, let's let's go through the list. let's Let's draw the line. Let's cast our minds back 10 years.
Ronald Koeman's Legacy
00:03:36
Global Sports Podcast Network
The September of 2015, Ronald Koeman's in charge and has been since the summer.
00:03:45
Global Sports Podcast Network
it's And, you know, what are your thoughts and memories of the vibes of Ronald Koeman?
00:03:51
Zak
yeah it's good times so it it was We kind of all thought that it would go after Poch went, especially after the the whole like you know special mention to Poch, because I remember, again, him coming in.
00:04:03
Zak
And I've told this story before of like people being absolutely baffled as to which one was the player and which one was the manager, where there was a snowy St Mary's as a backdrop, and we'd signed a player.
00:04:13
Zak
ah ah still can't remember what nationality is. I forget every time. ah for And he never played again for us. So it was bizarre. And then, obviously, he he went and after a pretty successful season and Koeman came in.
00:04:25
Zak
And then we had a wonderful little time, right? But, like, I think my biggest memory is that on I was on my way to, i to like, a wedding. Might have been around when your son was born, Greg.
00:04:37
Zak
the That, like, he got... sort of the links to Everton. then everyone would be like, oh, never leave to Everton. And then he went to Everton.
00:04:48
Zak
And then since then, managed to go to sort like, go on to like Barcelona and, you know, as ah ah as a fantastic player.
00:04:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:04:54
Zak
But, you know, there were some rough times under him as well. We went on like a seven game losing streak. Nothing like what we've had in recent history. But I do remember that that was quite like a point of contention. But yeah, I think it was just, it was like sort of,
00:05:07
Zak
where we gained the reputation we've got today, right? And it was very much sort of the the start of the the streets will remember this Southampton FC squad, right?
00:05:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. 100%.
00:05:17
Zak
ah That was that lot of the vibes that I felt when we had when we were under Ronald Koeman.
00:05:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
then Yeah, I mean, look there were some fantastic players that played under him. It was like a real gem of a time to be a Saints fan.
00:05:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
He was like a no-nonsense, proper serious football manager, but still, you know, with enough personality to be able to make a joke, just like good professional vibes. And...
00:05:38
Zak
yeah The highest win percentage, mate, of all of the managers we've had in the last decade as well, which is probably why we all remember him so fondly.
00:05:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
I mean, that that definitely helps, right?
00:05:48
Zak
Well, it helps, doesn't it, when you don't watch a lot of losses.
00:05:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, man definitely, for sure.
Claude Puel's Mixed Reception
00:05:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah, I mean, nothing but good vibes and memories for me for Ronald Koeman. then, ah guess, to flick the switch next up after Koeman, as we all remember, Claude Puel.
00:06:06
Zak
Yeah. I kind of forget like he was in charge for longer than I thought.
00:06:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
Manager of the season where we finished highest in the league, let's not forget.
00:06:11
Zak
Yeah.
00:06:16
Zak
yeah And also we made a league cup final, right. Which, you know, to this day, a lot of people still feel we were robbed and, you know, rightly so.
00:06:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:06:23
Zak
I think, you look you know, you're looking back at it, people are going to be annoyed. i guess we put more chance to bed, et cetera, et cetera. But it,
00:06:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Wow. How things will never change.
00:06:34
Zak
There you go. But, yeah, it was a strange one because I think everyone, we've been used to such good entertaining football under, like, you know, under previous two managers, you know, and Atkins as well, to then kind of switch to this sort of, like, really not fun to watch.
00:06:55
Zak
And then I think I still remember, like, I'm pretty sure still people on, like, Twitter and stuff that have, like, Puel out as their Twitter handle.
00:06:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:07:02
Zak
Yeah. but like even all these years down the line. And it's kind of crazy, right? And I think that some of the writing on the wall was, you know, the the way that... Because it was under Puel, right, where Puel wouldn't play Jose Font in the Europa League.
00:07:15
Zak
and And it kind of, like, caused a lot of friction. And then it was... I think there was probably more than just that. But, you know, i will remember the fact we got to a League Cup final. I remember we got, we finished, what, the highest position we ever finished.
00:07:28
Zak
And I remember the fact that everyone was really bored watching us play because of the style of football we had. But he went on to, you know, end up playing weirdly, although weirdly but went on to managing Leicester, right?
00:07:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
I
00:07:39
Zak
and And currently he's sent on Tom in France. So, you know, he's not had, yeah, he's literally Leicester, sent on Tom, and I don't think he manages at all anymore, to my knowledge.
00:07:51
Zak
Yeah, he was sacked in 2021. And i don't see I don't see any... I think that was the end of his career at that
00:07:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
i mean,
00:07:58
Zak
But yeah, so so that's that's kind of... Yeah, it was... I just remember... I remember the fact that we got to that League Cup final. That was nice. I remember the fact that people were mad and wanted to replace him with someone more attacking.
00:08:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:08:12
Zak
So they brought in that somebody where they were like, hey, we took a punt on a relatively unknown Argentinian manager previously.
00:08:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
it
00:08:20
Zak
Let's do that again.
00:08:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, next up on the list, Pellegrino.
00:08:28
Zak
Yeah, well...
00:08:28
Global Sports Podcast Network
What? You mean, look, you're talking about win percentages earlier and his is not great.
00:08:35
Zak
No, it's funny how it kind of just drops off, right? Like, I got the percentages in front of me, and it's like 48 down to 37, down to 23.
00:08:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:08:42
Zak
And as as I said, other than the Champagne Charlies story, mate, the other thing I remember is that I was in a game when Sofiane Buffaou scored the absolute... I say worldy.
00:08:52
Zak
I mean, the West Browage players took each other out, but it was still a fantastic goal. And I i remember sitting next to...
00:08:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
I mean, that gets that gets pointed out to me every time I quote it as one of my favourite Saints goals to my brother-in-law, who is, you know, remarkably a baggy span. He's like, yeah, it was an alright goal, but also, look at the state of the defendant that perfectly summed us up................
00:09:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
look
00:09:14
Zak
Yeah. I was sat next to my friend, Katie, who was like, pass it, pass it, don't shoot, don't shoot. And she was screaming, no, no, don't shoot. And then he shot and went in. And then I still, I just remember the that the vivid imagery of him, like, running straight back to Pellegrino to, like, basically say, like, put me in the starting squad.
00:09:35
Zak
Because that was obviously a point of contention at the
Mark Hughes' Crucial Role
00:09:37
Zak
time. yeah, it just kind of fell a bit flat, right?
00:09:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:09:40
Zak
And then, like, brought in... was his name, Carrillo, who played like a couple of games for us and never managed a goal. And then just it's kind of after that was, you know, pretty bad.
00:09:52
Zak
And And then it led into our next manager we will talk about.
00:09:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, our next manager, instead of going to an unknown, we went for a very experienced manager in the English game and brought in a lot cues.
00:09:55
Zak
Yeah.
00:10:06
Zak
Yeah. it was really nice when we won that game at Swansea. So we didn't go down uh, and Gabby Adini scored like weird goal.
00:10:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:10:17
Zak
I remember jumping up. Uh, I was watching it at home. I remember hitting my leg so hard on my desk. I had a bruise for the next like month because of how like excited I was and how glad at like how close, you know, it's weird to think how close we came to relegation back then.
00:10:36
Zak
ah ah Did that one moment warrant like another year-long contract? No. Some of the stories that have come out after where sort of like he he rocked up and Vestigard was just purchased or whatever.
00:10:48
Zak
heard that story, remember? I think we've discussed it before.
00:10:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, we have, yeah, Les Reed just bought him because he liked him, right?
00:10:54
Zak
Because the owner liked him, right?
00:10:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like...
00:10:55
Zak
and then yeah So baby maybe it's not all down to him, but...
00:10:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
I mean, look... No, but look, at the end of the day, he is... He, you know, rightly or wrongly, was labelled as a survival specialist and came in and, but you know, kept us up, so...
00:11:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
arguably job done and yeah, you're right.
00:11:15
Zak
Yeah, arguably he did the job was supposed to.
00:11:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
Whether the rest of the, whether the rest of the chaos at the club at the time could be entirely blamed on him. Probably not. But I mean, easily the, one of the most forgettable managers, the easiest managers to forget actually manage saints, right? Like,
00:11:35
Zak
Yeah, it's like, it kind of feels like we jumped from Puel and then, and there was that, I think some people remember the Pellegrino era because, you know, it' was a couple more games, but then all of a sudden most people just like, and then Hassan Hill.
00:11:48
Zak
But it wasn't exactly as straightforward as that, right?
00:11:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
Sponsorship Mention: Zencastr
00:11:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
No, well, we'll move on to what's next on our
00:11:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
our...
00:11:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
But first, a break and a message from our partners at Bionique.
00:12:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
And we are back. Zach, where were we? What's next? What have
00:12:43
Zak
I believe, mate, Calvin Davis took charge for one game before.
00:12:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
I don't think it's reasonable to judge him too much on that.
00:12:50
Zak
It's all right. He went on to manage later on.
00:12:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
but I love Kevin Davis.
00:12:56
Zak
He now manages Eastleigh. So his
00:12:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
He does. And they
Ralph Hasenhüttl's Era
00:12:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
are also not doing great.
00:12:59
Zak
one game at St.
00:13:00
Zak
Anthony.
00:13:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
So, i mean
00:13:02
Zak
No. Next is is Ralph Hasenhu. And again, like, man, what a, you know, what he's probably been our most, probably yeah, had had so like 50 more games than Nigel Atkins charge.
00:13:14
Zak
So he takes up a big percentage of this board and like how the fact we've had like, what, like 15 managers total, including a couple of caretakers into the room.
00:13:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:13:23
Zak
in the last decade is nuts when I just kind of felt like Hassan who was in charge for the longest time, right? ah ah and It's a kind of strange legacy that he's left, I think, because I still remember that first game. I want to say we lost to either Cardiff or Swansea and him going to the away fans and him literally saying that.
00:13:42
Zak
if If you can't see because you're listening to this in audio format, but it's me basically doing the substitution symbol. But what he was implying was, I'm going to turn this around, right? And he had this in like, you know, he had the little Southampton hat on at the time and started wearing the tracksuit.
00:13:57
Zak
And then like a lot of the standout imagery that I have is obviously, we lost 9-0 twice and he kept this job. Incredible feat. He worked...
00:14:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
the I remember him running down the touchline at Anfield, celebrating.
00:14:10
Zak
Yeah, I was going to get there. I was going to get there. Like, there was the running down, but there was the sort of, I think a lot of people taking out of context, like, oh, you've just beat Liverpool. I'm like, I think it's more that Hasenhutl finally managed to beat Klopp.
00:14:24
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:14:25
Zak
And again, that shows you a little bit more.
00:14:26
Zak
But like, I think you could tell that he cared a lot about the club. and maybe his perception. But I think that some of the more recent comments from both Brian Bertrand and Charlie Austin are telling. Bear in mind, they're players that kind of went under his reign.
00:14:41
Zak
And I don't know how you know how much there's a level of bitterness there. I'm not a psychologist. So I can't help...
00:14:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
They both came in under him as well, though, right? So it's...
00:14:51
Zak
Yeah, i can't help but feel that... I don't know about Austin, can't remember. But but like I can't help but feel that you know, maybe what they're saying is accurate in the sense of with Koeman, he would walk in and demand a presence and Hasnag, who will kind had to form that.
00:15:03
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:15:05
Zak
But there was just a lot of really, really good times as well. Like, ah kind of like you know, covid COVID seasons were a lot better. And I think that, people can't remember the level of despair we had under like Sparky and Pellegrino to have somebody come in and kind of reinstall that hope and also deal with extremely limited resources at the time, you know, under an ownership system that, well, I like the quote we constantly talk about is that like Southampton is a pig that needs to be fattened. And it's like, no, maybe if you starve it, like, i don't know what you expect. You don't know why you're expecting bacon. Like, okay.
00:15:38
Zak
and it felt And it felt like he worked just hard during those circumstances.
00:15:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:15:43
Zak
It's interesting where people kind of put him now and think about him now. And, you know, even we were talking about after russ Martin left, like, oh, would Hasenhügel come back? And I just, I don't really see it now.
00:15:56
Zak
And I don't really see any of that ever usually working out unless you're Sheffield United, where they seem to bring back Chris Wilder and it's always good for them somehow.
00:15:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:16:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:16:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, i mean look I mean, let's face it, it was frankly frankly miraculous that he kept us up as long as he did based off of the resources at his disposal. And, you know, I guess those nine niil defeats really back that up as well. Like, it was it was a struggle and it was a fight.
00:16:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
and And, you know, obviously when the new ownership came in, sort of felt like his race was run and he was out of ideas. Yeah. It's tough, right?
00:16:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
You don't know how much of what's has been said true and how much role was actually running it in the background.
00:16:36
Zak
Yeah, that's that's the thing is is you've got to take it all with a pinch of salt.
00:16:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's...
00:16:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:16:40
Zak
That's the problem.
00:16:40
Zak
Like, you know, everyone's going to have, you know, if if these are two players that when they left, they were disgruntled. I don't doubt for a minute that parts of their their story are accurate, mainly, especially where Bertrand was talking about him putting like Gineppo ahead of him in the starting lineup because that happened and everyone thought it was weird.
00:16:58
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:16:58
Zak
And and that is an explanation potentially as to why, but... yeah it's you know it's a very it was just a kind of different time for the club and i think people as much as sports republic gets a lot of criticism i think people kind of forget we were in a far worse precurious like a far more precreious precarious ownership where like the the you know and i can't stress this enough the sponsor sponsoring our shirt wasn't even like a real company
00:17:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yes.
00:17:24
Zak
like it was It was a shell company.
00:17:25
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:17:27
Zak
And unfortunately, due to some political issues, Gao and ela most of the other you know Chinese ownership of multiple clubs kind of collapsed due to their internal laws.
00:17:39
Zak
And I think that, yeah, did a he did a really good job in a in a bad situation.
00:17:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:17:44
Zak
And I think it is unfair for me to maybe say that his legacy is two 9-0s and hit him crying at Liverpool. But my point is, is like it's the moments like that that you will remember, right? Again, it's like the mo one of the key moments I notice is just him saying, we will turn this around.
00:18:00
Zak
And that season, they did turn it around. And I think it's the probably... the start of the decline, like the decline happened before, in my opinion, under Pellegrino and Sparky. But like, that was when I think a lot of people didn't realise maybe how bad things had gotten until he went.
00:18:18
Zak
And, you know, whether or not he he managed to perform miracles or maybe he made things worse, we're never really going to know the full picture. But, you know, he was a solid manager and I think he always cared about the club.
00:18:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
like
00:18:30
Zak
You can never take that away from him. And that was very evident from day one.
00:18:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Absolutely. 100% agree. All right, mate. We're going to move on to to the rest of that season, but ah unfortunately.
00:18:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
But first, a message from our partners at Zencaster. Here at the Global Sports Podcast Network, we spent a lot of time selecting our delivery platform. Zencaster came out the clear winner.
00:18:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
With 4K video recording from your phone and AI editing that removes all those ums and ahs, it's super easy to record a podcast that sounds great and is delivered efficiently. If you're ready to tell your story, check out the link in the show description to learn more about Zencaster.
00:19:11
Global Sports Podcast Network
Right, mate. And we are back. And, uh... And now we're getting into real recent memory, right? So Ralph went, Seles took over for a game, and then was replaced.
00:19:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
We'll come on to Seles properly.
Nathan Jones: Controversy and Dismissal
00:19:29
Global Sports Podcast Network
And then was replaced with Nathan Jones. So, mate, what's Nathan Jones' legacy at Southampton?
00:19:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
that he'd rather appear off <unk>d rather be off with a Welsh PE teacher and it's harder to play against 10 men.
00:19:37
Zak
It's hard, right? we We make a lot of fun.
00:19:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
that's That's the first thing that springs to mind for me.
00:19:44
Zak
those Those are two things, but also bear in mind managing to stop the the quad, right, for Man City.
00:19:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:19:52
Zak
Let's not pretend that that isn't also thing he's done.
00:19:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:19:55
Zak
I know we give him lot of stick.
00:19:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Hilarious.
00:19:57
Zak
I specifically also give him a lot stick. i definitely got caught up at the time in the whole Nathan Jones out. Like I've never seen a fan movement build that quickly other than maybe Ruben Sellis at Sheffield g United i currently russelbart and Russell Martin at Rangers, right?
00:20:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:20:18
Zak
That, that,
00:20:18
Global Sports Podcast Network
He just didn't help himself, did he? I've never seen anyone um presumably deliberately go out of their way to upset the fans as much in such a quick amount of time.
00:20:31
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:20:31
Zak
I think genuinely some of the stuff that both he said and some of the stuff that that's kind of come about about it is that he he kind of felt like he wanted to be there on merit.
00:20:41
Zak
And I think that... paying attention to a lot of the noise when he first came in is that a lot of people turned heads. And I reckon probably a lot of the players as well.
00:20:51
Zak
And that seems to be, you know, i can't guarantee that for sure, but like just, just because of the way that he behaved is that he was almost like trying to be like, well, I'm here on merit, you know, whether or not I'm, and I think the problem was, is that by trying to shout that out to everybody, what you're right, what he did was antagonize everybody.
00:21:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:21:10
Zak
and then was unable to kind of deploy what he wanted on the pitch straight away because he came in halfway through a season. He came in after, you know, the longest period of a manager in the last decade and tried to kind of put in his way of playing.
00:21:24
Zak
And then after a couple of games reverted back, and then he was like, no, we're going to play the Nathan Jones way. And by that point, he had the noise had gotten so loud, the ownership were like, nah.
00:21:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mmm.
00:21:34
Zak
And I think from the perspective Southampton fans, it was so underwhelming.
00:21:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
You're right.
00:21:38
Zak
Right? Like it was just, it was an underwhelming signing.
00:21:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Well, like...
00:21:40
Zak
Everyone was expecting, so you know, people talking, can't remember at the time the level of names we were linked with, but people were like expecting this.
00:21:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:21:48
Zak
And what we got was, you know, my hands are high if you are watching the video.
00:21:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mmm.
00:21:52
Zak
And what we got was, oh, that guy that got Luton promoted or that guy that said Luton.
00:21:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mmm. Yeah, it was a baffling one. And, like, I didn't know a lot about him when we took him on, and I was willing to give him a chance. But you're right, from straight from the off, it was just...
00:22:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I think it's reasonable to say he wasn't really given a fair crack of the whip, but he also just really laid the rod for his own back.
00:22:12
Zak
ay
00:22:16
Global Sports Podcast Network
ah ah Like, you just can't... You just can't make people dislike you that much in a job, right?
00:22:22
Zak
No, I also just think that, like, it was it was just the wrong fit.
00:22:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
Like...
00:22:27
Zak
Like, that's the, like, you know, he's he's beloved at Charlton, he was beloved at Luton.
00:22:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm-hmm.
00:22:31
Zak
I think that trying to put him into our club, a an established Premier League, slightly more family friendly, and, like, you know, some people are like, oh, we really need this, the players need this. And I'm like, that's great. The problem is, as we've also discussed, is player power is key.
00:22:46
Zak
if all of a sudden everyone stops playing for you because you've come in and you started throwing things at them and saying that, you know, and maybe that isn't what it was like behind the scenes. But again, that is the, that is how he portrayed himself.
00:22:57
Zak
And we're we're spending a long time. I'm not, not, not noticing. talking about a guy that was in charge for 14 games. but But his legacy is like just an absolute whirlwind of what felt like insanity from both the club and him.
00:23:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:23:12
Zak
And again, like some of his media soundbites will go down in history just for how strange that was.
00:23:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:23:17
Zak
And I wonder if, you know, say in 10 years time, he ends up managing a much bigger club and say he gets another good at go at Premier League. He will talk about his reign at Southampton as being like a learning opportunity or he won't. And that will be his big chance that he blew.
00:23:31
Zak
Because he decided to go, don't know, off the walls, sort of mental about...
00:23:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
could be up in Wales marrying a nice PE teacher, mate.
00:23:39
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's so
00:23:40
Zak
Yeah, but that's my point. and it's It's like need you need a ball. But then also, flip side of that, stop Man City from winning the quad, right? Like, that was that was all right.
00:23:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
all... Yeah.
00:23:49
Zak
James Bree is a part of his legacy.
00:23:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
the thanks yeah
00:23:51
Zak
James Bree's been a solid squad player for us since we brought him in.
00:23:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. I mean, all all stuff that happened in a very short reign,
00:23:55
Zak
so It's just... It was just...
00:23:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
i
00:24:00
Zak
But, like, I can't... I'm not convinced just because of my temperament and who I am as a person. I can't bring myself to really like him much is the problem. Not that that mattered in a football club, but...
00:24:10
Global Sports Podcast Network
roman don't think I don't think that around these parts that that is an unpopular opinion. Let's put it that way and leave it there. Moving swiftly on then, Ruben Seles took on the rest of that season.
Ruben Selles' Interim Success
00:24:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
And I don't want to say it was foreshadowing, and I can't blame him for the rest of that season, let's be honest. But he also had a lower win percentage than even Juric. So...
00:24:34
Zak
yeah Oh, it was... So what, he took charge. We got that one win at Chelsea because I think the players were just happy to not have Nathan Jones in the building.
00:24:40
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:24:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:24:44
Zak
And then this was another example of them giving...
00:24:47
Zak
Probably the first example of them giving long-term contracts for... the not great. you know They made a terrible decision in Jones and then they made another terrible decision in I think, trying to you know let him take over the entirety of the rest of the season when he should have already been an interim manager.
00:24:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:25:03
Zak
But I think that there was a lot of relief in the fan base as well. You can see there was a lot of relief in the fan base where, oh, thank goodness, back to normal. And then, you know, you manage that.
00:25:13
Zak
And I want to say that game against Leicester where somehow we didn't lose, where like which we've talked about a couple of times before.
00:25:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yep. Yeah.
00:25:20
Zak
And the rest of that are just, oh, well, maybe we'll get better. Maybe we'll do better. Maybe we'll get better. Maybe we'll do better. We were already... I think a lot of people had already decided at that point we were down because of the Nathan Jones spell, right?
00:25:31
Zak
So there wasn't as much pressure on him, but also it doesn't it doesn't look great.
00:25:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:25:36
Zak
I think that anyone taking on a position like that has to have some credit, but that credit runs out real quick when you don't get any results, which is we wouldn't be talking about the manager...
00:25:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:25:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:25:51
Zak
two managers ahead, right? So yeah.
Russell Martin's Tactical Legacy
00:25:53
Global Sports Podcast Network
All right, mate. Well, let's let's move on.
00:25:54
Zak
yeah
00:25:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
Next up, Russell Martin. Now, this, I guess, is going to be a talking point because I'm sure that there's a lot to talk about with Russell Martin about sideways and backwards and, and you know, the worst Premier League start to a season in history and and all that. But also, 25 games unbeaten and a day out at Wembley.
00:26:18
Zak
Yeah, was with but one of the best days I've experienced in in probably post-COVID, right? Like we've had such a weird couple of years.
00:26:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mm.
00:26:25
Zak
I know we don't really talk about anything like that because it's not really our place, but that That whole kind of period to have something like that, to have a day out like that, that was so special. And and then started to watch a game with nerves and end in elation, which isn't something that's normal for a Saints fan, let's face it, i was was incredible. And and you you said, like, we did have some some really good good moments in the championship season as well.
00:26:49
Zak
You know, we always talked about how the defensive struggles were there, but then there were also games like when we came back and beat Huddersfield, like 5-3 or where whatever it was, right?
00:26:56
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah that ridiculous name against norwich as well right where it was like
00:26:56
Zak
Like some absolutelys so absolutely incredible games. like Yeah, just like there were, they there were you know, some some fantastic moments and he was incredibly likeable.
00:27:08
Zak
He really cared about the club. He cared about the players, I think, a lot as well. And, you know, there's there's stuff like the stories of him writing handwritten letters to to all of the players before, like the playoff finals and stuff like that. And there is an argument to be made, and you've made it a couple of times, mate, that when we made it into the Premier League, quite a couple of the first few results that would have built momentum were not really his fault because VAR took them away.
00:27:35
Zak
And in fact, they'd they'd even come out, you know, a lot of lot of the times those decisions were then overturned. I think the only one that wasn't was the one at Wolves, right? Where they tried to say, but no, was definitely, definitely a problem.
00:27:46
Global Sports Podcast Network
most ridiculous foul I've ever seen. Yeah, look, he definitely got unlucky. There was definitely, look, we talked a lot about psychology in football and momentum's a real thing and it was genuinely unlucky at the start of the season to not get the results.
00:27:55
Zak
Hmm.
00:28:00
Global Sports Podcast Network
But at the end of the day, he still lived by the sword and died by the sword.
00:28:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
And, you know, we're seeing the same thing at Rangers now. It's, yeah, it's the...
00:28:05
Zak
Yeah, it was it was his it was his own philosophy, right?
00:28:09
Zak
and and that's the And that's the problem you've got with a manager he who is that attached to his his philosophy. And like I've talked about it before, where I do think there is a psychological hangover in our players that they I think is is wanting to default back to the way he played.
00:28:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
I see it in Ryan Manning every time he starts to break up the wing and then turns around and passes it backwards.
00:28:32
Zak
But at the same time,
00:28:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
let's that from That is what, to me, I mean when we say there's a Russell Martin hangover. I'm sure that there are other plenty of good and bad things that come out of Russell Martin. But to me, the main thing I think ah is Jack Stephens and Bednarek and Taylor Howard Bennett having 750 passes each to each other and the ball just not moving.
00:28:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
And me just screaming at the top of my lungs, move the ball forward. The goal is over there. Like...
00:29:04
Zak
But again, like I think that when we talk about, again, the the philosophy style of it and the fact that he he truly lived by the sword, died by the sword into into his last season.
00:29:15
Zak
And maybe we didn't have the players. And there's a contributing factor, right? The transfer window wasn't great. and maybe he could have done better. And had he been given another go, he would have done things better. But ultimately, we ended up where we ended up. we know those That game at Chelsea was awful. like top The the game Chelsea game was awful.
00:29:32
Zak
The Tottenham game. And by that point, when you you know you've lost the trust of everybody around you, it's really, really hard to come back. And I think that if if anything, the fact that there is that hangover is a credit to how well the philosophy is ingrained into them.
00:29:46
Zak
Because the fact that if they if they are going to play, you know, if they're going to try and play that way or or default to certain things that were drilled into them,
00:29:47
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:29:55
Zak
that meant that he drilled them in well for better or worse.
00:29:57
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:29:58
Zak
Right. And, you know, i I, as much as we, we are essentially adding it on as a bonus episode, right.
00:29:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:04
Zak
ah ah The fact that the fact that we keep talking about him at Rangers is kind of, look, I feel sorry for the Rangers fans.
00:30:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:10
Zak
They didn't get to see any of the good parts. It's like, they've just skipped to the nightmare bit, which was the end of that season. and And it's awful.
00:30:17
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:30:18
Zak
And I kind of, as a said I said, I watch with a, morbid curiosity because it feels like, it I thought it might work out with him over there, right?
00:30:29
Zak
Like, oh okay, he's got the players in the league to be able to do that, and it just hasn't clicked for whatever reason.
00:30:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
No.
00:30:36
Zak
And it's, again, like a morbid curiosity.
00:30:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
It's almost genuinely almost gone in like a Nathan Jones direction where he's come in and seemingly just upset the players and the fans. So
00:30:45
Zak
Yeah, and like how he, you know, I'm surprised put this way, I'm surprised that he lasted longer in that job than Sellis lasted in the Sheffield United job.
00:30:48
Global Sports Podcast Network
don't know.
00:30:54
Zak
said Genuinely.
00:30:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Crazy. Right, mate, moving on. Simon Ross took over for two games, but we'll talk about him briefly later on.
Ivan Juric and Simon Rusk's Brief Tenures
00:31:04
Global Sports Podcast Network
Ivan Juric came in.
00:31:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
i mean, we've covered at length Ivan Juric's legacy, right? It's just not... Short, sharp, to the point, not great football, not really much of anything for I mean, it's is it entirely his fault how awful we were last season?
00:31:15
Zak
Yeah.
00:31:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
No. Were we still awful under him and maybe worse than we could have been under someone else? Yes. And that's just answering you know questions in his style.
00:31:30
Zak
the So here you go. Here's the here's the legacy for Ivan Jurich, mate. Do you think we would have got the money for Paula Luachu and Sulemana if
00:31:42
Global Sports Podcast Network
Well, no, because he bought Sulemana. So, yeah, you're right. Thank you for that. You're right. Saints legend.
00:31:47
Zak
but but But other than that, I'm going to come in and play heavy metal football. Wasn't really to be.
00:31:52
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:31:54
Zak
And then won a game.
00:31:54
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah Although it has to be said, all of that Sulemana money was wasted on Pyro for the Pompey game and one of those boxes set on fire. So...
00:32:03
Zak
But yeah, I've endured a footnote in the history of Southampton Football Club, right?
00:32:07
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. I mean, still a higher win percentage than Ruben Seller, so that's something.
00:32:14
Zak
Yeah, again, like that that's I'll remember that that Ipswich game. That was good. That was about it.
00:32:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:23
Global Sports Podcast Network
That's all I got, mate.
00:32:23
Zak
now That was it.
00:32:24
Zak
And to be honest, the fact that he turned around some of the players and made, you know, Uga Chukwu probably got his move to Burnley off the back of him playing under Ivan Juric.
00:32:32
Global Sports Podcast Network
Hmm.
00:32:35
Zak
So I think that he he gave an opportunity to some players that probably would not have had one.
00:32:35
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:32:41
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah, I think that's fair.
00:32:41
Zak
There you go.
00:32:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
And then Simon Rusk got given a poison chalice and did what could with it.
00:32:47
Zak
100%. I mean, Juric did arguably...
00:32:49
Global Sports Podcast Network
I mean, look, there's no... I don't think there's anything you can comment on Simon Rusk's ability based off of the results that happened when he took charge.
00:32:59
Zak
Got draw at City.
00:32:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:33:00
Zak
That was good.
00:33:01
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:33:01
Zak
We got so much criticism from their players saying that we weren't trying to play football. Maybe we weren't. We got the draw out of it, though. Arguably, it's we probably how the Pompey fans felt from the weekend, right?
00:33:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:33:11
Zak
but if you We came out of that feeling like it's a loss.
00:33:12
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah
00:33:14
Zak
No, we came out that feeling like it's a win. City fans came out feeling like it was a loss. Very, very similar vibes, but...
00:33:19
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:33:22
Global Sports Podcast Network
yeah Other than that, very likeable level head that was needed in that, like say, absolutely dire situation, already relegated with that many that few points and did
Future Potential: Will Still
00:33:33
Global Sports Podcast Network
he could.
00:33:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
And that brings us to now, our current manager, Will Stil, who, you know frankly, is far too early to make any sort of judgment on, but I'm still optimistic and still like him.
00:33:34
Zak
yeah
00:33:45
Zak
You summed up at the beginning of the game. He's had one game with his team that he's bought. One game.
00:33:50
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:33:51
Zak
It wasn't great.
00:33:51
Global Sports Podcast Network
But look, it's not going happen overnight.
00:33:52
Zak
We'll We'll have to move on.
00:33:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
what What do you think? What do you hope Will Steele's legacy is with us? I mean, let's take it at the best case scenario. Is he another Pochettino or Koeman where he has a couple of good seasons with us and then goes off to do something bigger? Or does he stick it out, make it a proper project and come on to become an absolute Saints legend? what we What
00:34:18
Zak
I'd prefer the latter. can see the former. I think that...
00:34:21
Global Sports Podcast Network
Yeah.
00:34:22
Zak
I still think that he will be a success. I think he's there's still a lot of feeling out and figuring things out at this stage. Yeah. It was frustrating. you know i think that we were so used to having a a style and a philosophy for so long that not having one feels a bit weird.
00:34:39
Zak
And I think that regardless of, you know, we've talked about how it's exciting that we want for a manager to just do whatever that we he could do to win. And then we've had a couple rubbishy draws. But as I said, where we're at now isn't true reflection. and And I think that I think that there's going to be far more added to the Will Still story than this is a guy that played football manager.
00:35:01
Zak
This is a guy that will find every time he took charge of his team. And, you know, hopefully it will be a ah project for longer term. ah don't know whether we're going get promoted this season, mate. But, i you know, i feel like, you know, could he be a longer term manager for us?
00:35:13
Global Sports Podcast Network
my
00:35:17
Zak
I would love to see it because it's been so long since we've, you know it's been been Hassanhutl since we've had a long term manager that stayed in charge for a while. So,
00:35:26
Global Sports Podcast Network
Well, let me, as a closing thought, give you my prediction, mate. And that is, uh, wins the championship and the FA Cup both this season comes club legend job done.
00:35:38
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mate, that's all there is to it. That's still on.
00:35:41
Zak
but that There's me thinking you're going to lead a lead me into a a serious, what I think his legacy is going be. And I'm like, this is interesting. We've only had a couple of games. and the other other I know Greg's always more clued up than I am, but but and that it's it's it's though just just more, ah, don't worry about it.
00:35:56
Zak
First in FA Cup. yeah
00:35:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
Mate, I'm deadly serious. I don't know what you're talking about.
00:36:00
Zak
Look,
00:36:03
Zak
but it's a long old season.
00:36:05
Global Sports Podcast Network
No, look, all of the things I see from Real Steel point to him being an excellent manager, a good person.
00:36:05
Zak
We've still got a long time to go.
00:36:14
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think my favourite clip, upon reflection of the entire weekend, is, I don't know if you've seen the particular picture, but it's just the face he pulls after John Monsignor tries to hold on his head afterwards.
00:36:29
Zak
Yeah, that is the exact picture I have in his mind, where he's like, sorry mate, whatever.
00:36:30
Global Sports Podcast Network
LAUGHTER
00:36:34
Zak
And I'm like, yeah, that's that's kind of where, like again, like he's just a bit for the football and that's lovely to see.
00:36:34
Global Sports Podcast Network
I'm
00:36:37
Global Sports Podcast Network
sorry.
00:36:41
Zak
I think that once, well now we've got these new players and we've got... something to build onto, ah ah it's going to be good to see what happens. I think I'm still still relatively positive.
00:36:52
Zak
know that's a lot a lot of people have now, for some reason, already made up their mind because the Poppy game. And we've we discussed that already.
00:36:59
Global Sports Podcast Network
I think that look there was a lot of hype about the Pumper game and how it was the most important game of the season. And that felt like it was true, right? But also, there are 45 other games this season. Like, it's a long old season.
00:37:15
Global Sports Podcast Network
is not the be-all and end-all. The important thing is, we didn't lose and completely embarrass ourselves at home. And we still have a chance to go to Fratton Park in January and ah do them there, which would be even funnier.
00:37:27
Global Sports Podcast Network
You know, lull them into a false sense of security. That's all we've done. Just playing the long game. And look, now we can head into the weekend and take the long and wonderful trip to Hull and, you know, see how we go from there.
00:37:42
Zak
Yes, mate.
00:37:43
Global Sports Podcast Network
But...
00:37:43
Zak
Sounds good.
Conclusion and Audience Interaction
00:37:44
Global Sports Podcast Network
But look, that is all we've got time for and then some today. Thank you, Zach, for for taking the trip down ah Manager Manager Memory Lane. It's been an enjoyable one.
00:37:54
Zak
Thank you, mate.
00:37:55
Global Sports Podcast Network
Thank you, everyone, for listening to us waffle on about memories of the past and legacies. will be back tomorrow with something Saints related. Until then, let us know what is your...
00:38:08
Global Sports Podcast Network
Who's your favorite manager of the last decade being And what is your favorite lasting memory or legacy? ah ah Let us know on all the little the socials. We are on all of them. We're on Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Blue Sky.
00:38:20
Global Sports Podcast Network
All of them. Let us know. We'll see you tomorrow. And until then, have a wonderful day, everyone.