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Ep.26: Stonehouse Dahlias: Industry Leaders in Growing Virus-Free Dahlia Cuttings
2k Plays6 months ago
Have you ever wondered how a simple backyard gardening hobby could blossom into a thriving family-run business supplying high-quality rooted dahlia cuttings to flower farmers and gardeners across the country? In this captivating episode of the Backyard Bouquet Podcast, we delve into the inspiring journey of Julie and Ryan Williams, the passionate duo behind Stonehouse Dahlias in Northern Utah.
Julie and Ryan share their heartwarming tale of transitioning from teachers to dahlia propagators, recounting the pivotal moment when they were approached to sell Kristine Albrecht's renowned K.A. Dahlia varieties through cuttings. The Williams' dedication to producing virus-free plants through tissue culture and their commitment to quality shine through as they discuss the challenges and triumphs of their business.
Tune in to hear expert advice on caring for dahlia cuttings, including the importance of timely planting, providing ample light, and amending soil for optimal tuber growth. The Williams' innovative approach to dahlia propagation, their resilience in the face of setbacks, and their ongoing experimentation with tuber growth methods make Stonehouse Dahlias a beacon of excellence in the dahlia community.
Whether you're a seasoned flower farmer or a budding gardener, this episode is sure to inspire and educate, offering valuable insights into the art of growing vibrant and healthy dahlias.
In This Episode You’ll Hear About:
- 00:00:55-00:01:07: Introduction to Stonehouse Dahlias
- 00:02:23-00:02:33: Story of How Stonehouse Dahlias Got Started
- 00:04:22-00:04:33: Transition to Cuttings
- 00:09:27-00:09:38: Challenges and Growth
- 00:10:30-00:10:40: Collaboration with Kristine Albrecht
- 00:19:47-00:19:58: Growing Virus-Free Stock and Tissue Culture
- 00:22:51-00:23:03: Virus Elimination Process
- 00:26:32-00:26:42: Learning Resilience and Adaptation
- 00:36:13-00:36:25: Controlling Pests in the Greenhouse
- 00:41:55-00:42:05: Tips for Handling Cuttings
- 00:46:34-00:46:46: Getting Tubers from Cuttings
Learn More About Stonehouse Dahlias:
- Website: https://stonehousedahlias.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/stonehousedahlias/
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Transcript
Introduction to Backyard Bouquet Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Backyard Bouquet podcast, where stories bloom from local flower fields and home gardens. I'm your host, Jennifer Galitzia of the Flowering Farmhouse. I'm a backyard gardener turned flower farmer located in Hood River, Oregon. Join us for heartfelt journeys shared by flower farmers and backyard gardeners. Each episode is like a vibrant garden, cultivating wisdom and joy through flowers. From growing your own backyard garden to supporting your local flower farmer, The backyard bouquet is your fertile ground for heartwarming tales and expert cut flower growing advice. All right flower friends, grab your gardening gloves, garden snips, or your favorite vase because it's time to let your backyard bloom.
Meet Julie and Ryan Williams from Stonehouse Dahlias
00:00:55
Speaker
Welcome to today's episode of the Backyard Bouquet podcast. I'm thrilled to introduce our guests, Julie and Ryan Williams, the dynamic duo behind Stonehouse Dahlias. Nestled in Cache Valley of Northern Utah, Julie and Ryan have turned their passion for dahlias into a thriving family-run business with their three daughters alongside them who share their love for these stunning blooms. At Stonehouse Dahlias, they specialize in providing high-quality, rooted dahlia cuttings from the renowned dahlia breeder Christine Albrecht.
00:01:29
Speaker
of Santa Cruz dahlias. Each spring, these cuttings are carefully nurtured at stone house dahlias and then shipped across the country, helping gardeners everywhere add beauty and color to their gardens with some of the most highly sought after Ka dahlia varieties. Today, Julie and Ryan are here to share their journey from a small family operation to becoming a key supplier in the Dahlia community. Their experiences working together as a family and the joy that these flowers bring to their lives and the lives of their customers. Julie, Ryan, welcome to today's show. And thank you for joining us to talk about your blooming business and the delightful world of Dahlia cuttings. Thanks for having us. Oh, my goodness. It's such an honor to get to chat with both of you.
00:02:16
Speaker
Can you begin by telling us how you got started with growing dahlias?
The Williams' Journey into Dahlia Farming
00:02:21
Speaker
Sure, we'd love to. ah Ryan grew up with, ah his grandma grew dahlias, dinner plate dahlias, and she would take him shopping and ah for these flowers and they would plant them together. And so he kind of grew up with this love of dahlias and this wonderful memory from his sweet Grandma Faye. And so when we got married and we had a garden, he would plant a few dahlias. And I didn't really even know what they were. and but But I liked them. And so so each year we would plant a few more and a few more. And eventually we had so many, we decided we'd better join the Utah Dahlia Society. And through that group, we came to know a lot of wonderful people and made some lifelong friends.
00:03:07
Speaker
um And one dear friend in particular ah helped us get started in this business. She had gone to a workshop with with Kevin Larkin, who was at the time the president of the American Dahlia Association. And he was he was propagating dahlias through doing cuttings. And he was the only person. Probably in the country that was doing that and he he was the only one doing it to to sell to others and he he talked about this at the workshop and I think that our our friend who was at that workshop just got a vision and she came to us afterwards and she said Ryan and Julie you need to do this and we kind of laughed because we were both full-time teachers and
00:03:57
Speaker
And we had young children and we were very poor.
Balancing Careers and Business Challenges
00:04:00
Speaker
And we said, well, that would be nice. But we thought that was the end of it. But she didn't let it drop. And she kept pushing and pushing. And she eventually um helped us to start this business. And well, for which we will be forever grateful. um But it has really, that that was nine years ago. So you've been growing your business for nine years now. Yes. Yes. We started in 2015. and When we started selling dahlias as stone house dahlias and we were selling cuttings,
00:04:33
Speaker
um
00:04:37
Speaker
well, it's it's changed a lot. When we first started, our customer base was very different. I think that most people who were shopping with us at that time were gardeners who wanted these beautiful flowers to put in their flower beds and they were looking for bright and they were looking for big. And within the first couple of years, um we noticed a a change a change in our customer base. we We noticed people buying smaller, softer colors, more for cut flowers. We started hearing the term flower farmer. And within just a few short years, our whole customer base had changed drastically to where now we sell mostly to flower farmers. And and they really like a particular,
00:05:25
Speaker
ah particular look to dahlias and so our catalog has had to change to accommodate that and anyway it's just been a really wonderful and exciting journey. That's amazing. So nine years ago you were approached by Tom of the Name again, I apologize. You said it was- Well, our friend's name was Megan Badger, and she had been to a workshop with Kevin Larkin. Kevin Larkin was putting on the workshop. Okay. And he was the president of the American Dahlia Association. So he was talking about how to propagate through cuttings.
00:05:59
Speaker
Gotcha. Because I mean, even up until probably this year, cuttings were not that common in the dahlia world. You have really revolutionized the dahlia world with dahlia cuttings. And you mentioned that Ryan has always grown a few dahlias when you met him. You guys had some dahlias when you moved into your house. Were you already growing to scale with dahlias when you went to this workshop, or did you just have a few dahlias in your garden when you went to this workshop? but We already had a lot.
00:06:32
Speaker
um not i When we first started, we had more like 150 varieties on the catalog. and We already had most of those, but people in the when we decided to start the business, people in the diet society said, oh, I've got some nice varieties. And so we um we kind of inherited a lot more all of all of a sudden. So they helped out a lot also. So 150 varieties. How many plants were you growing at that time? When we were when we first started doing our business, we
00:07:06
Speaker
Oh, I don't know. we we probably planted ah We probably planted a thousand. We we usually planted five to 10 of each variety, just depending on what they were and if we could use them for cut flowers or not. Like the the big dinner plates don't don't make really good cut flowers. And so we would just plant enough that we could have something for the following year, whereas things that made good cut flowers, we would plant more of. Gotcha. So before you started growing them as cuttings, were you commercially selling your dahlias or were you just growing them for personal enjoyment? Well, ah when you grow dahlias, you end up with all these extra tubers. And so we were always looking for things to do with them. And so our first, I guess, business venture was just going to the local farmer's market and we would ah sit there every Saturday morning in the spring and sell the dahlia tubers. Yeah.
00:07:58
Speaker
okay But we never never shipped tubers. we We didn't do anything major until we started doing cuttings. Gotcha. So nine years ago, you went to this workshop and you learned how to take cuttings.
Growth and Partnerships in Dahlia Community
00:08:11
Speaker
Continue the journey for us. What what transpired after that? Well, we had the benefit, I guess, that maybe some of the people that were doing cuttings this year didn't have, and that was we could start slowly. No one knew who we were. and ah
00:08:30
Speaker
And so our first couple of years, the number of orders were very small, and which was was good. Looking back, we're really glad that it that it went that way. We were teaching high school. Both of us were teaching high school and just doing this on the side. And we were able to slowly learn all the the tricks and and and kind of tweaks you have to do to to make a dahlia survive during the winter and not only that to grow well enough to produce cuttings and then have the cuttings turn out to be not only nice healthy plants but shippable ah and and so we kind of came into that slowly. I know that there were some struggles this year and and I'm sure that's the
00:09:18
Speaker
kind of the big reason behind it was that learning curve. they All those people had to just jump right into it, whereas we we kind of got to learn slowly. Yes, we would you we would open our catalog for sales around October and orders would just trickle in. One here, two there, and eventually in about April, we would shut the catalog down and say, I think we think that's all we can take this year. But now, as as you're probably aware, we sell out in minutes. It's not seconds. yes And so it's it's really different, but that slowness was really important to us. It really gave us a foundation to where over a few years of that, we we felt like we kind of figured a lot of things out.
00:10:06
Speaker
Absolutely. It's a lot easier when you don't have the pressure to scale up really quickly. So it sounds like you were able to take your time over what, probably six years? Cause I feel like you've been pretty well known for at least the last three years, if not longer. In about 2020 or maybe late 2019, um, Christine Albrecht sent us an email and we knew who she was of course, but we didn't know her at all. And we just got an email from her asking if we would be interested in selling her varieties. At that time, we really were the only people selling cuttings like this. I think she realized that to turn a few tubers into a lot of plants that she could get out to to the world, she she needed to have someone who could do cuttings. And so she reached out to us.
00:10:54
Speaker
and um And that changed everything for us. and All of a sudden, we weren't little anymore. And overnight, people knew knew who we were and and came looking for KA diets. And so that that changed a lot for us, brought a lot of business to us. But but we were prepared at that time. We had our greenhouse in order. We kind of knew what we were doing. and Yeah, I mean, it's doing cuttings commercially is never easy, but but we were just grateful that we had a good foundation. The challenge with with being a hybridizer, I guess, the reason Christine was looking for someone doing cuttings is as you kind of you kind of only have that first year. And so if you're introducing a new variety, the way the daa the world value world works,
00:11:47
Speaker
um if you Grow them for a few years and have 200 tubers to sell and you that first year you sell 200 tubers now all of a sudden you have competition and That it's no longer people won't be just coming to you to buy those and so the trick is to get as many out that first year as you can Anyway, and so that's kind of the benefit to cuttings is we we have the ability to do a little more of that and Absolutely. My head's spinning with so many questions for you right now. I want to try and keep my thoughts in order so I can ask ah questions that will help our audience that's joining us today. um Going back to your setup, you said that you had one thing in your advantage that was you had a greenhouse. How big is your greenhouse?
00:12:35
Speaker
Well, we when we started, we were actually just renting a greenhouse. ah like yeah Like Julie said, we didn't have any money and so we were looking for the cheapest way to do it and there happened to be a greenhouse pretty close to where we lived that had been vacant for a long time and and we knew the people and and they were willing to rent it to us. and So for two years, we just rented out a greenhouse. and It was hard because we had little kids and so we had to kind of pack them up and take them with us anytime we were were doing anything in the greenhouse. And there was no bathroom. And there was no bathroom. And so after the third year, we decided, you know, we've got to do something different. And so we started looking for for a house that had property and and found the place we have now and um and built our own greenhouse. And so that our greenhouse is
00:13:25
Speaker
Oh, i it's 15 by or 30 by 50. And so it's not a super huge greenhouse. And that was okay for a couple of years. Once we in 2022, is that when we built the second one, we built a second greenhouse and that is a little bigger. I think it's 30 by 72. And so we have the two greenhouses. One greenhouse is where we we grow things and the other greenhouse is where we kind of um take care of the cuttings. Gotcha. So you have two greenhouses in production at different stages of the process. Are these heated greenhouses? They are because in Utah, it gets super cold. And so that maybe we would be a little more cost effective if we live somewhere else. But yeah, we we have to heat them from when we put things in the greenhouse in probably November up until it starts to warm up in the spring.
00:14:20
Speaker
So are they still heated? We're recording this second week of June. What's your weather like right now? No, we're, we're hot now. Okay. Uh, and really it's only heating them at night and it's natural gas. They're, they're natural gas, um, both of them. And so it's not too bad, but, um, we heat them until probably in the April usually. Yeah. And how many cuttings can you fit into the greenhouses at a time? Oh, I don't know. I don't know that we've ever maxed it out, but several thousand, if we were to fill it up, we could, oh well, we can do. No, I don't know. I don't know. Okay, a lot. um It would be fun if you have a photo that you could share with us for the show notes to show everyone what it looks like full of cuttings in there. Sure, we can do that.
00:15:13
Speaker
That would be great. So I'm just thinking in my mind, you've shipped out all of your cuttings for the year that are going to gardeners and cut flower farmers around the country. I assume you hold some back for yourself to regrow your stock for the following year. Is that correct? We do. we The last batch of cuttings we take um is for us. And so we planted, I think we planted about 1600 this year and they get they get planted in a field that is behind our house. And that is for doing cut flowers. We also sell cut flowers during the summer. And in the past we would bring that that stock back in the greenhouse.
00:15:55
Speaker
But in an effort to make sure we don't have virus now, nothing that we put in our field ever comes back into the greenhouse. So where do you get your stock for the greenhouse then? ah We have the varieties we want to sell in our catalog. We keep stored in tissue culture in a lab. Okay. And so I know that sounds strange. It's not something that that most farmers are doing or or have the ability to do. Absolutely. But because we're trying to keep things as virus free as possible, um we we know what varieties we want to sell and in the upcoming season. And so we have we we do tissue culture to them and we keep them
00:16:37
Speaker
in little test tubes, i in an incubator. And then when we're ready to plant, or before we're ready to plant for the for the for the next season, we'll start multiplying those. And and so then when we're ready to to plant in our greenhouse, we can just bring those tissue culture, ah they they just look like tiny little cuttings. And so we plant those and they have been kept clean in a lab all all summer long. And so it's, I don't know, it's kind of a funny way to do it, but but that that's the only way that we can that we have been able to come up with to keep things clean.
00:17:18
Speaker
If you put your, you know, things growing out in a field, there's there's no way that you can protect them from viruses that might be in your weeds or the insects are carrying or that your neighbors might have. it It's just impossible. And we are very well aware of that. And so so we just bring things in from the lab. Yeah. It's one of the hardest things I sell my Dahlia tubers around the country. And I have a short window guarantee window because once someone plants their flowers in their garden, there's no, even if I was sure that it was virus free when it left my place, there's no way to know. Like you just said that a thrips not going to travel over from a neighbor's garden and bite that plant or that there's already a disease growing in that field. yeah So what are you, if you grow 1600 Dahlias, what do you do with those Dahlias at the end of the season?
Challenges in Maintaining Virus-Free Stock
00:18:10
Speaker
Do you dig those up?
00:18:12
Speaker
We've we toyed with the idea of selling tubers, but kind of that's ah like a whole other business.
00:18:21
Speaker
We like the idea of the virus-free thing, and if we were going to start selling tubers, we really could no longer say that. And so as of right now, we're kind of just sticking to the cuttings. Then we don't have to be as, like, for example, what we planted out there was 1,600 of the these KA dyes that some of the growers want. I'm sorry, some of the cut flower people that we sell to, the florists and things want reds and other colors that we don't have on the catalog right now. And so we also plant some of those and we don't want to deal with the stress of making sure that every all that is also clean. And so we just mostly dispose of it. That sounds terrible.
00:19:05
Speaker
There's probably people listening saying how, much thinking that they would love to get those tubers from you, especially 1600 with, I'm assuming most of those are Christine's KA varieties. They are. And it's something we're always talking about is what what do we do with these tubers? and And we may eventually decide to sell them. It's just like Ryan said, that's another business on top of what we're doing and we're already kind of tired. So that's just something we need to, we're we're figuring out. You have a huge operation. And before we talk a little bit more about that, can we pause? You mentioned the virus piece um with the tissue culture. You have not always grown from tissue culture, have you? No. So when when we first started this business, the very first year, actually, as things started growing in the greenhouse,
00:19:55
Speaker
um we We started talking, we're like, how do we how do we make sure things don't have virus? Because we had gotten some plants from other people and and as they started to grow, we could see that they had problems. and um because the the trick with with cuttings the way we were doing at the beginning is it was a prediction game and so we were pre-selling and so if you you sold something and then a month later it started looking bad in your greenhouse now what do you do you've you've already sold this and
00:20:28
Speaker
And now it comes down to the kind of the ethical, what do I, do I cancel the order? Or do I, anyway, it was, it was a big, a big stress right from the beginning, not knowing what to do. And so we would talk about ways that we could make sure our diets didn't have virus. We talked about, uh, starting over. Like if, if we saw virus, do you just choose varieties that were good and start completely over and order new stuff? Well, if you order new stuff. no one else has a virus-free garden. And so if if I trash everything I have and order new stuff, well, I'm still going to have probably 80% of the plants have virus. there There was just really no way. And it it was something that bothered us year after year. Let me mention also that when we started this business, Agdia didn't have these test at home speeds. Yeah, there was no way to test. There was, yeah, the only way we knew of testing
00:21:22
Speaker
ah The dais that we had was to send them in through the American Dahlia Society offered some free testing But it was really slow to get the results back and ended up not being helpful race So there was no way to know for sure what we have to what we were dealing with And the testing isn't cheap either. No. And you can test one plant and then you don't, just because you test one doesn't mean the rest of that variety is viral. Exactly. And so that that's the other thing is testing to us, to when when people like to say, oh, do you randomly test your fill? Well, what good does that do? Because if I test ah one plant, even if I tested 10% of my garden, I test one plant of Cornell for example but i have fifty other plants planted there and it tests positive now
00:22:09
Speaker
do i get rid of the whole variety of Cornell. there's just It's not a good method and it's it's not going to to tell you anything. And so anyway, we we struggled with that for a long time. And when I was in college, I had done tissue culture. I had done meristem tissue culture on ferns. And so I knew what it was and I knew that it was a potential way to get virus-free stock. and And so we would talk about it and we actually started to get equipment that we would need and it's all expensive. And so we had been doing it for several years until 2022. Yeah.
00:22:49
Speaker
when Was kind of a big year for us it was the first year we had lots of k.a varieties and some people started saying oh we see virus we see virus and and. In all honesty, what we had was no different than what any other value grower had. We didn't have more or less. i don't I don't know if you say it's our mistake, but we got on social media and we said, oh, we've seen this virus. And so if you see it, um you can ask for a refund and we'll see it. And it kind of blew up. It turned into a really big thing. And we ended up refunding almost all the money that year. and
00:23:30
Speaker
And that's it it's it was really hard. It was a really stressful year, but ah we're also kind of glad for it because it pushed us into what we had already been working towards. And we decided the only way we could do it is to start small. We had to start with just a few varieties because tissue culture is very expensive. The process is very expensive and there's no way we could afford to do it with our whole catalog. And so we decided the best way to do that was with with Christine because her varieties were valuable and they were something that people wanted.
00:24:07
Speaker
And so we just started with a few that first year we did it, we had five varieties. So our catalog went from, we went from selling 150 varieties of dyes down to five. That was scary for us. How can we ever make it work? But because people want them, that's the only reason it it did work. And so, um, we started doing tissue culture. We. kind of were doing it two ways. One was to just start with clean stock.
00:24:44
Speaker
and just maintain it as clean in tissue culture. And the other way was to ah actually eliminate the virus that was in. And so some of the older varieties already had a virus and so we would work on eliminating them. We found that it was much easier to start with clean stock. The process of eliminating viruses is very long and and expensive. and And so we we focus now mainly on just starting with clean stock. And so that that is our goal at the moment. We hoped that maybe we could clean up some varieties and that that people have loved in the past. you know and
00:25:26
Speaker
and try to sell those again, but that's... It's still the goal and it's still what we're working on. we've We've been able to clean up Mocha Joe and so Mocha Joe will be one, okay, is Mocha Joe will be one that will be back on the catalog next year as fire is free. That will be exciting and hopefully over the next while we can continue to get more and more of those older ones. One thing I think that's unique about cuttings when you mentioned that your garden's no different than anyone else's with virus. We all have virus in our garden. There's there's really no such thing as a virus-free garden. um I think the difference is is when someone gets a tuber.
00:26:05
Speaker
You can, you judge it on, is it firm? Does it look good? Is it squishy? There's no tuber when you get the cutting. yeah There's some roots growing. So your customer is judging, do these leaves look healthy? Is this going to grow? So if you see something immediately, you're like, ah, what am I going to do? Um, and I have to say that I was really excited to talk with you because when I think of someone who has exemplified resilience in the flower farming industry, it's the two of you. I mean, 2022 could have crushed you guys and you could have easily just closed your doors and said, that's it. We're throwing it in the towel. We're not going to do this anymore. But instead you said, we're going to figure this out.
Virus Crisis and Resilience in 2022
00:26:45
Speaker
And now you are the probably the only, I'm going to venture to say the only one that I know of that can actually offer virus free plants. And I have been buying from you for the last three years. I was one that did get some virus ones and you were gracious and you refunded those for me.
00:27:02
Speaker
last year I bought, I don't know if it was five or 10 KA mocha shakes from you. They were gorgeous and beautiful. Absolutely nothing wrong with them. One of the first to bloom this year. I can't even remember which ones, but I knew I was going to buy from you and I bought some, I sat there on the computer, refresh, refresh, refresh, waiting for your sale to go live. um And I'm going to be planting them later this afternoon and they're beautiful. They're growing healthy. I've potted them up and they're in pots because I always wait until I always say that I plant my cuttings in my garden about when I plant my tomatoes and we've been unseasonably cold this year so I've been keeping them in the greenhouse but they look phenomenal and they grow so well and so you're just such a great testament to farmers who have true resilience because you could have easily thrown in the towel.
00:27:51
Speaker
Well, thank you. it It was a really hard year. It was very stressful. It was hard financially, but it was also hard emotionally. um you know we were We were very We were very visible on social media that year, and there was there was a lot of negativity around dahlias and about viruses and about what was happening. It was scary for people to all of a sudden be talking about viruses and their plants. And I think a lot of that had to do with the fact that we were just coming out of COVID. and yes so Just the word virus was frightening.
00:28:23
Speaker
You know, and and a lot of a lot of flower farmers that were kind of new to Dias really hadn't had any experience with viruses and didn't know what it was and didn't know, you know, and it just it just sounds scary. And we. I guess we're not as afraid of it as maybe as maybe some of our customers were at that time because we have been seeing it all our years, all the years that we've been growing Dayas, we've known it was there. We just didn't know what to do about it really until we had to, we had to figure it out. um we I guess I just want to say that
00:29:06
Speaker
i don't know I don't know how to say it. Just that people who are growing dahlias in their gardens or for cut flowers or something, the virus is its it part of dahlias. It just comes along with them. Dahlias have been dealing with viruses for thousands of years, and there's not a lot we can do to prevent it. um We discourage people from just simply throwing things away if they think that they have virus. ah because Because like Ryan mentioned earlier, you can't necessarily, i don't it's it's just if you dispose of something, you can't necessarily just get something clean to replace it. Because there's very little virus free stock out there available in the world.
00:30:02
Speaker
um We do believe that vendors and hybridizers need to maybe have a different standard and be a lot more careful about what they're working with and selling to people, as we have learned. um But people are who are simply growing, we strongly believe that you should keep what looks nice. And if something starts looking really bad, and you feel like it definitely has a problem, then get rid of it. But if your plant is blooming well and it's looking healthy, then just simply not to worry about it too much. But one thing that we have noticed since we started selling virus free, or as virus free as we can get, definite um is that art the quality of our plants has improved so drastically.
00:30:52
Speaker
um we Our field blooms earlier now than it ever has in the past. We get more flowers, our plants look amazingly healthy, and we just feel like it's it's been worth it. It really has. So can we talk a little bit about the process of cleaning the dahlias? I'm guessing that's not something that the average cut flower farmer has easy access to, is that correct?
00:31:24
Speaker
when we When we first started, we were doing it ourselves, the tissue culture. And we and that was, it was kind of the fight or flight time. we we We were under the gun and we decided very quickly that we needed some help. And so we started looking for a lab that was already established that didn't have to go through the trial and error that I was going through. um And we found that it was easy to find someone who was willing to do tissue culture it was almost impossible to find someone who was willing to say, okay, we'll clean the virus, or they didn't want anything to do with virus. All they were gonna do is you send me a plant, we'll do the tissue culture, we'll send it back to you, end of story. Tissue culture is just a process of multiplying. Yeah, it's like a, it's a cutting, but on the microscopic scale. And so you're just, you're reproducing exactly what you start with. And so if it has a virus, you're going to reproduce
00:32:23
Speaker
more more plants with virus. And so with virus elimination, it's it's kind of a second step. And so when when we initi initiate a cut ah ah variety, it's put into tissue culture from the tiny little bud, if you look at the the base of a leaf, where you've got that tiny little bud that hasn't broken yet and started out into a new stem, that's what we use to get the initial tissue culture. And once the it's growing and established in tissue culture,
00:32:55
Speaker
and we know it has a virus, ah we would first test for, and and know what virus we're dealing with, but then it goes through a second process, that tissue culture is moved to a different ah growing media, the little gel stuff that it's growing in, that has a chemical in it that kind of in inhibits the virus replication. It slows it down, it doesn't kill it,
Tissue Culture and Tips for Home Gardeners
00:33:20
Speaker
it just, it slows it down, and unfortunately it also, often often about half the time kills the plant, also kills the virus. And so we expect about 50% of them to die. But the ones that do survive, this it's chemotherapy, it's kind of the same idea as when you do chemotherapy, you're introducing a chemical that kills or inhibits cell growth. And those that do survive
00:33:48
Speaker
we will then do a second tissue culture. This time we go all the way to the Maristem. And the Maristem on a plant is the same, pretty much the same as stem cells in human in in humans. They're undifferentiated cells that for some reason have a ah really good chance of having no virus. And so you've inhibited the virus, you've given the the plant a chance to grow, and the idea, the hope is that the plant will outgrow the virus just a little bit. You then take a new tissue culture, and once it's going, you test it, and if you're lucky, um you'll have a virus-free plant.
00:34:26
Speaker
And so it's, it increases your chances. Sometimes you can get virus free plants just simply by doing meristem tissue culture without the chemotherapy part. But we're, we're looking for every, um, boost to our chances, I guess. Fascinating. Now are every one of your cuttings grown from tissue culture or can you explain the process? So you start with the tissue culture. Are you doing every cutting from tissue culture or do you...
00:34:57
Speaker
pot up the plants as they start growing and then take cuttings from those. Yeah, we're using the tissue culture as stock for us. As our mother plants. As our mother plants. The tissue cultures, we we had thought about just actually using tissue culture and selling them directly, but the tissue culture plants aren't nice, pretty um plants like like when we we send out the cuttings. they And so we use those as the stock And so the idea is that every year we get to start with a complete set of virus-free plants. We know the tissue culture are are virus-free and so by not having to bring anything back in from outside, um we we start with a whole new batch of virus-free plants and that's our stock and that we feel gives us the best chance to then ship out virus-free plants in the spring.
00:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, so then it's up to us to make sure that we're sterilizing all our tools, to make sure that our greenhouse doesn't get insects in it, you know, so it's, yeah, so then then the rest is on us. just How do you manage insects and pest pressure in a greenhouse? Because I know they can take over very quickly. They can. Our one benefit is that we don't start things in the greenhouse usually until like November. And so most of the bugs are already frozen or whatever. and and they But you still have to treat because things get in no matter what. That is one benefit of doing this in Utah. yeah It is so cold in the winter. That we don't deal with the outside. We don't have insects. We don't have insects in the winter.
00:36:39
Speaker
That is fortunate. I get aphids if I heat my greenhouse in the winter. I'm like, it's 30 degrees outside and I have aphids in the greenhouse. so Yes, they will come. As soon as we start heating, they will come. so but But it helps that we don't start with them. So we kind of start clean. yeah and then And then we just have a kind of a regimen we go through. It's not organic by any means because we we need to make sure actually this year a lot more is was considered organic the best method that we found for especially with white flies and and even thrips.
00:37:12
Speaker
um were considered organic. But you have to cycle through. If you find something one thing that works, if you use the same thing over and over again, pretty soon these little insects have built an immunity to it and and and it's doing no good. And so every every two weeks we we switch. And and yeah the the the tricky part is that you have to control for insects and fungus powdery mildew, different funguses, and all kinds of things all at the same time. And so I sometimes get all stressed that I'm spraying them too much, but but that's the the balance we have to to deal with. Can you tell us, how are you controlling the thrips and white flies? Do you have any suggestions for listeners? Well,
00:38:03
Speaker
the The one thing you can do, a good, I don't know, thing is is to find out if you have them in the first place. And so they have little sticky cards that are yellow, usually they're yellow on one side and blue on the other, that the thrips are attracted to. Whiteflies are easy to see. If you get whiteflies, you'll see them. Thrips, not so much. But the when the thrips get stuck on these little cards, you can check them every every couple of days and you can see how many are there. And if there's none there, then you don't have to to do a whole lot with spraying. But as soon as you start seeing one or two, then it's good to start spraying. We kind of go more towards prevention and
00:38:48
Speaker
And so we have we've come up with a ah list of of different pesticides that we use and and each week they're getting something. ah I don't like spraying pesticides. I don't like being in there with it. And so we invested a couple of years ago in a fogging machine that we really like and it works with some of the pesticides and we can just go in there and put the pesticide or the fungicide in in this fogger and then leave and it does it all during the night. and um with, I don't know, what are some things other than spraying? Well, what about, how do you feel, Ryan ryan takes care of of most of that, but how do you feel about the insecticidal soap that we used last year? Yeah, insecticidal soap works good as a
00:39:32
Speaker
um a prevention, as as long as especially if you start doing it, things like neem oil and sexicidal soap, if you're really religious about it and and do it before it's a problem. If you wait until you have a ah big infestation of either white flies or thrips and then try to use something like insecticidal soaps, you probably won't do a lot, but it works really well as a prevention. Some of the chemicals that we use that we have found to be effective are not really feasible for home gardeners to use because they are so expensive.
00:40:05
Speaker
got i knew it's in hundreds of dollars the you know, for for use in a greenhouse. um But things like the insecticidal soap, they're, I don't know, that's a lot easier for people to get their hands on. There's another ah chemical that's made that's also considered organic that's made from the same tree as the neem oil, just a different part of the tree. and The name has left me. Anyway, but what it does is it it prevents the the insects from molting and so
00:40:36
Speaker
ah they die It works for both thrips and white flies. That's an effective one. we We can find the name. Maybe you can put it in the notes. That would be great. Yes. Thank you. What about beneficials? Do you ever release any beneficials to help deal with pests or because it's a greenhouse, is that harder to control? Well, we have taught we have been talking a lot. we We're actually working with the university here in our area this year about different ways to do that, to use beneficials like little wasps and things like that. We have tried some things in the past, but what we found is that we released things into the greenhouse and then they didn't keep up with the, whatever it was, we were like a, like if we were looking for something to take care of aphids or whatever, it didn't keep up. And then I ended up spraying the beneficials and the aphids. And then I felt really bad about that. And so we kind of have moved, had moved away from that, but
00:41:30
Speaker
that What we've been talking with the university is that there is a way to kind of use both the beneficials and some of these more ah organic type sprays and so we may be doing that in the future. Awesome. Well, let me ask you a few questions about cuttings, if I can. For someone that is growing your dahlias, they've bought them online, they've arrived at their house, they look beautiful. Most of the time people need to keep those alive until they can plant them outside. What tips do you have for people once they've purchased these virus-free cuttings from you? What should they do with them until it's time to plant them?
00:42:11
Speaker
The first thing I would say is to plant them as soon as possible. we we still it's It's kind of interesting sometimes. We still get emails ah from people who got their dahlias months ago and they're saying they've been looking really great and now they're starting to look bad and we see they're still in a pot in their window in the house and they've been in there for months. and so that's The number one thing, and I know with the way dahlias work, people feel like they need to get them when they can get them, and it's a and and we understand that, and so people have to do what they have to do, but dahlias don't like living in the house.
00:42:48
Speaker
ah They do okay under lights if you can if you have enough light, but they don't do great. They do better if they can be in a greenhouse as long as they're they're kept watered and they can be potted up, um but they don't they don't do very well in the houses. So that's the first thing is that they we even the very best thing is is if people can order them and they just show up and they can be planted right outside. That's what we do with ours. They go from the greenhouse right out. We don't do any potting up or anything. They just go right into the ground and and they do well that way. But if they do need to be potted up, I guess yeah they they people need to watch for powdery mildew in the house. It's very common. Powdery mildew, it shows up very frequently in the house where you just don't have a lot of air movement and it's more humid. and
00:43:37
Speaker
um What else? I would say light is the most important. Light is the most important. So if you're growing them in your house, you've got to have some grow lights on them. and Or a really sunny window. As much sunlight as possible. And when the weather does warm up, but you're still not sure that it's warm enough at night, um if you can even take them outside during the day and then bring them back in at night. And I know that's a hassle, but just the more light they can get, the better off they're going to be. And then also the hardier or the more hardened they will be and ready for planting out yeah out in the field or in the garden when you're ready to do that. But yes, I would like to echo mostly, it would be great if people could order them close to the time that they're ready to plant.
00:44:24
Speaker
I think a lot of people worry whether you'll have enough. I know. Yes, exactly. We understand. And so I think myself included, we order early and then hold on to them to make sure that we get what we want. Yes, I know. But here's another thing that people might be interested to know, and it makes sense. Maybe people haven't thought of it yet. we can actually take more cuttings as the season progresses. And so we usually have the least amount for sale in our first sales. And that's kind of hard because that's when a lot of people want them and a lot of people need them. It's just first thing in March, they want to get these plans. But that's actually when we have the least available.
00:45:06
Speaker
If people are can can wait a little later until April or early May, then all of a sudden we have so many more for sale because we've been able to take more as, you know, we can take, I guess the cuttings grow exponentially. And so by our last couple of sales, we we have oodles of cuttings. Um, and, and you may have noticed, I don't know if so some of your listeners might have noticed that our last sale that we had at the end of may lasted for quite a long time. We had our catalog open all day long. And where it's the first sale, it was done in three minutes. Yeah. Yeah. I think I, I get ah one variety from you this year. And when I went back to buy a second one.
00:45:54
Speaker
It was sold out on the sale that I shopped. So they do sell out. So if you don't get something in one of those first sales, the trick is to come back to one of the later ones where we have more. That's good advice. Now I do have a question that I've heard from several listeners, and I've experienced it not every time, but occasionally it'll happen for me. where a cutting only produces roots at the end of the season. Do you have any tips for listeners and myself included to make sure that our cuttings grow healthy tubers by the end of the season? Yeah, yes and no. That is that is the the trick. um We know that dahlias planted, that plants grown from a tuber generally make larger and more
00:46:44
Speaker
tubers than plants grown from a cutting. We are aware of that. Not always, but sometimes. A lot of times that is true. But plants grown from a cutting can make very good tubers It's just that there hasn't been a lot of research put into that yet. And so it's hard to know exactly what conditions are going to be best for for creating good tubers. For us, it has been the soil. When we first moved to our new place, ah we the field that we were planting our dahlias in, our cuttings, had not had anything grown in it in years. years Except for weeds. Yeah, except for weeds, probably 20, 30 years.
00:47:26
Speaker
and With our first year we the plants didn't grow they didn't produce tubers and we were really worried and so We started amending the soil every year with just leaves a little bit of compost But mostly just leaves the getting the organic matter back in the soil making the soil not so firm and And that, within a couple of years, we started getting good tubers again. And so I think that's the big thing is the soil, making sure you have a lot of organic matter. And we actually are doing some experimenting this year. We've planted some extra rows of of a variety and we're going to try some different things. We actually have a meeting with a potato farmer um today, later today.
00:48:12
Speaker
we We figure a potato farmers growing tubers and they want to make sure they're going to have lots of tubers and so we're going to see if they have any ideas that we can experiment with this this summer on diets. Interesting. I was actually just going to ask you about that because I saw someone had posted on one of the Facebook dia groups that if you take your cutting and remove the first few sets of leaves and plant it deeper, like a potato, that you'll get ah tubers growing from those nodes. Yes, that that is true. And it's actually the best best practice with it with a cutting. You think you usually plant our tubers six inches deep. If you get a cutting and you just plant it right there at the top of the the little
00:48:53
Speaker
the growing media that it's in, they're not very deep. And so best practice is to plant it as deep as possible, like you would a tomato. And so if you can bury two or even three nodes under the ground, definitely number one, you will get more roots. big Every node is going to send out roots and usually you will get tubers on those nodes also. And so you remove the leaves and then you have the nodes. You can, you don't even need to remove the leaves, you can just bury them. oh When we do it, we just bury the leaves up as deep as we can and the leaves just go away and the roots grow. Probably add some organic matter to the soil. yeah
00:49:33
Speaker
That's very fascinating. So what if someone digs up their cutting at the end of the year and there's just roots? Is that just a lost cause or should they save that? What would you suggest? It depends on what's there. Normally there will be something in, uh, it's, I think it's rare for there to be absolutely nothing. And even if there's just a kind of a swollen little root ball, it it can be saved. And as long as you keep it from drying out, that's the key, and you might have to keep it a little more moist than you would a tuber.
00:50:05
Speaker
but there There have been times when we've we've dug something up and it's just these little ah fibery roots and and they probably will not save. And I i know that there are people who've who've then potted those up and saved them through the winter. And if I guess if it's that variety is that important to you, then that that is an option if you have the ability to do that. But most of the time there will be something that ah you can hold on to. Gotcha. Thank you for that.
Future Collaborations and Dahlia Varieties
00:50:33
Speaker
um Let's talk about, if you can, what might be in store for next year in the future with Stonehouse Delious. Well, Christine is, as always, shes she's got some really, really great things. um She's been posting a lot on her Instagram of different things that she's got coming. and we we
00:50:55
Speaker
There have been no final decisions. She hasn't given us the final list, but we do all already have lots of things in tissue culture, new varieties that are just as spectacular as the ones that we've we've already got. and And she talks to us about new varieties all the time. so and She has so many beautiful ones. Yes. We are excited to have Ka's Mocha Jo again in our catalog next year. Yes. yeah and And we're also having some discussions about maybe even working with another hybridizer or two. But that's not for sure yet, that nothing's been decided certainly or definitely. So we'll have to see. So there's a chance that we might see some other varieties from you next year as well. Yes.
00:51:43
Speaker
That is exciting. So I have another question for you about cuttings. If someone wants to take their own cuttings and get started with cuttings, what suggestions would you have for them? So when we take cuttings on kind of a mass scale, our process our processes is maybe a little different than what you would do on your own. And it cuttings are very easy to do. And I would i would suggest if if you get a variety that was hard to get or or you only have a few of, whether it's something you buy new or something that you have grown and loved and you just want to increase the number of cuttings, they're a good way to do it. um If you get a cutting like from us,
00:52:28
Speaker
um Within a couple of weeks, it's probably going to be tall enough or that you could pinch out the the center chute like you normally would and um that can be used as a cutting. Cuttings can be put in these rooting media, the cubes like we use and just kept moist or you can just simply put them in a a small pot of potting soil. and maybe cover them with a, to kind of hold any media, a plastic bag, put them in a plastic bag or something and within a couple of weeks you'll have roots.
00:53:02
Speaker
If you're going to do your own from tubers, those tubers probably would need to be stored or or started a little earlier. So a few weeks, maybe even a month before you'd want to plant, you'd want to pop them up and then as they start to grow, you can start to taking cuttings. There's lots of information about their on taking cuttings. Christine has Christine Albrecht is actually, if you go to her YouTube, she she tells a lot on taking good cuttings just on that small scale in the house, but it's a good method. And there are a lot of methods for doing cuttings. The one we like the best is to go just below in the a leaf node and cut there and then um and then break off those bottom leaves so that you're exposing that node and then
00:53:50
Speaker
plant that in in your media or in your soil or whatever. that's That's the method we prefer. Perfect. And is it just the two of you that do all of these cuttings or do you have any help with this now? Up until this year, we have done it all ourselves and we we've always had people help with the shipping part, just a couple of neighbors. This year we actually had a couple of people help with the cutting process also. They're just ah people that live close to us and so they would come over in the morning and we would spend a few hours doing cuttings each day. Yeah my girls are good at it but they're in school while we're in that during that season so we we just hire some neighbors to help us.
00:54:34
Speaker
And it's it's nice. It's a great way to make friends because it's just a lot of um a lot of repetition. And so it just gives you a chance to visit while you're doing it. And so we spend hours and hours just visiting with neighbors while we do these cuttings. That sounds lovely. And how old are your daughters? My oldest is 16, and I have a 13-year-old and an 11-year-old. Okay. And so are they. They've been helping us with this since since they were tiny. Yes. And I asked my oldest daughter what was her favorite part yesterday and she said, when we finish.
00:55:15
Speaker
ah Sounds like a child's response there. that's My daughter is always looking forward to the end of the season. She's already planning our trip for when I dig the dahlias out of the ground this year. Exactly. I'm like, I'm still planting them. It's going to be a while. Well, let's talk about something fun here. What are your favorite varieties that you offer through your catalog? Do you have one or two or three favorites? It's like asking you to choose a favorite child, I know. That is a good analogy. um I think that my favorite is, okay, no, I don't know. I like the blood orange. I like the color and I like the just the shape. They're all just, that's my favorite. Yes. um So Bella Luna from our last year's catalog, we only had five varieties and Bella Luna was spectacular.
00:56:12
Speaker
um This year we are offering a lot of Christine's newer, we have seven of her new varieties, and but we actually have not grown them. And so they are going to be new for us this year. And so that's exciting when we like the most yet. So does that mean that you just received tissue culture of them to start? And the that's how you got started with this? Yeah, she, we started them last year. And so, uh, we had, we hadn't, there hadn't been time for us to grow them for a season, uh,
00:56:47
Speaker
And so now we're trying to be ahead. So we we will actually get to grow the things that we're selling next year, but it didn't work out that way last year. Gotcha. And has Christine had a chance to come out and see your operations? She has not, but her husband Brian came a few weeks ago and spent some time with us. And that was a lot of fun. We have a lot of conversations with them over the phone. So we talk to them all the time through texting and phone calls and things. but we have not spent a lot of time in person with them because we just live so far away. Sure. Well, it's amazing the partnership that the two of you have built together or your two businesses have established. We're hoping to be wonderful. That's great. We're hoping to have Christine and Brian on the podcast a little bit later this summer. We were going to try and do it earlier this year. And with them welcoming a grand baby, we pushed it back. So it'll be a fun follow up to this conversation here.
00:57:43
Speaker
um I really, really appreciate both of you taking your time to chat with us today and share your knowledge about Dahlia Cuttings. And we're so grateful that you have chosen this path to offer all of this beauty to the rest of us to be able to grow out these amazing varieties from Christine's breeding. So before we say goodbye today, is there anything that I haven't asked you today that you'd like to share or any parting advice that you would like to give to our guests today? Or I should say our listeners. You are our guests. I'm sorry. Any advice you'd like to give to our listeners.
00:58:22
Speaker
Just, I don't know, enjoy them. That's, I think the lots of people think of dahlias now as a way to make money. And it's ah that's a lot of the people that are buying dahlias from us. That's the purpose for make money. But really ah the whole reason we started this and hopefully the reason that everyone else does too is the dahlias are just so great. And so they should just grow them and enjoy them. And even if it's just for your own, for your own fun, I think, Dahlias are a good mental uplift for people. They are. they're They're wonderful to share and they're a great way to make friends.
Closing Remarks and Floral Stories Promotion
00:59:01
Speaker
Yes. Yes. I grow zucchini and I grow dahlias. My husband always says you can't make friends with your zucchini, but you can with your dahlias. That's true. That's good. Well, thank you for that. so For our listeners who are tuning in today that don't already know you, how can they find you?
00:59:21
Speaker
Our website is www.stonehousedahlias.com and ah we check our email regularly. There's an email less an email list sign up that people can get on and that way when whenever there's going to be something we we always send out an email and give people ah but kind of the first heads up. Fabulous. Well, thank you, Julie. Thank you, Ryan, for joining us today. It was so wonderful to chat with both of you. And maybe when you have a big announcement of your breeding on another breeder or some new varieties, we could get you back on the podcast and you could share the big news with us. That would be wonderful. It's been a lot of fun. Thanks for having us. Thanks so much for being here today. Happy gardening. ah Bye bye.
01:00:09
Speaker
Thank you Flower Friends for joining us on another episode of the Backyard Bouquet. I hope you've enjoyed the inspiring stories and valuable gardening insights we've shared today. Whether you're cultivating your own backyard blooms or supporting your local flower farmer, you're contributing to the local flower movement, and we're so happy to have you growing with us. If you'd like to stay connected and continue this blossoming journey with local flowers, don't forget to subscribe to the Backyard Bouquet podcast. I'd be so grateful if you would take a moment to leave us a review of this episode. And finally, please share this episode with your garden friends. Until next time, keep growing, keep blooming, and remember that every bouquet starts right here in the backyard.