Transcript
Speaker: The voice of growth, mastering the mind and market.
Speaker: I started with a company called Carvana back in 2016.
Speaker: From the moment I set foot in their building, I just knew that it was special.
Speaker: We grew very quickly. I'm the person in the room saying yes, and here's how.
Speaker: There is a stereotype about finance people.
Speaker: I think trust is very important. If you're spending money, making money, or counting money, I'm invited to your meeting. That element of human connection is really important.
Speaker: Companies exist only to make money. I think the goal should be to always do things better and faster.
Speaker: Always play like you're behind.
Speaker: I'd love to be remembered for being the woman I want to be. I'm very entrepreneurial because I want to be the the person who's sitting next to the founder and really at that intersection of their big vision and strategy and execution. And that's really where a CFO can be highly impactful.
Speaker: do Oh, do tell. Right?
Speaker: Sarah, you've been in the finance seat of hyper growth companies. Tell us and the viewers a little bit about what it felt like and how you saw your way through it.
Speaker: Well, first of all, thank you for having me, Manny. I'm excited to be here. Absolutely. ah You are correct. I started with a company called Carvana back in 2016. That was before they IPO'd about a year later, and it was my first industry job previous to that. I was...
Speaker: I was um in public accounting. I like to think of myself as an accountant by discipline. ah But when I got it to Carvana, I i was accounting and finance and really anything that I could grab.
Speaker: That place was... Like a rocket ship. I bet. It was so much fun. um i loved public accounting. And I knew that if I were to step out of that world, I would have to find something special. And Carvana was my first interview.
Speaker: And from the moment I set foot in their building, I just knew that it was special. I got lucky because they thought I was special too. and um And yeah, we we went.
Speaker: And it was um it was a blast. I thought the first nine months, ah were crazy. In fact, there were moments that I thought I'd made the worst decision yeah because it was insane in the best ways.
Speaker: How long were you there? I was with Carvana for almost seven years. Okay. Was there a moment, maybe more than one moment, during your tenure where you you just wanted to walk away?
Speaker: You were just done? Oh, um, no. No. So it was like you were like on that bull hanging on do life. I bled blue. i um i loved Carvana. I loved the people. I loved the energy. I loved what we were doing. um You know, I like to think of companies and in terms of your micro ecosystem and your macro ecosystems and the macro ecosystem that was Carvana.
Speaker: I was there for it. ah From senior leadership to, you know, our brand in the community, to the fun that I got to have at work, to the people so intelligent and the the projects we worked on. I mean, I just had a blast. So you were pretty close to the ah inner circle, right? You were maybe not C-suite, but very close to the C-suite, correct? I i was, you know, humbly- speaking, still am. i kept I kept the important things and I kept the people. So, yes, I was i was senior leadership, but I was an associate director.
Speaker: i had a friend who once said, big A, little little D. ah but ah But moving from accounting to FP&A at Carvana, which I was so humbled and honored to have been offered, ah really gave me a ah seat at the table and I was able to make some pretty significant impact. I bet.
Speaker: I want to get to that impact in a second. But my first question, just to dovetail off of that is, what are the leadership qualities that you saw in those rooms at Carvana when everything was just like crazy, like that rocket ship?
Speaker: Who are the astronauts in the room, if you will? And give us a sense of their their style, their leadership qualities, maybe some of their leadership um things that weren't so great.
Speaker: Sure. um You know, what's interesting when you think about the entrepreneurial space is we often think about the big idea. And we we mystify this big idea. We love a vision. It's what gets people on board. I think a good founder is going to be able to explain his vision. He's going to, he or she, excuse me, um they are going to be able to explain to share their vision, to bring their network, their their their access to resources, their charisma, and they're going to be able to get people on board. And that's really what I experienced at Carvana.
Speaker: What was equally exciting was that I think it takes a particularly extraordinary leader to also be a good CEO, which takes all of those attributes of a founder and really harnesses you know accountability and execution.
Speaker: um You know, ah a founder wants to get get people on board and ah and a good a good leader, a good CEO is going to make people want to follow them. And so i saw I saw a lot of that at Carvana and not just with our CEO, but other other um other really strong leaders at the beginning of an entrepreneurial journey.
Speaker: You can move really, really fast. And I think speed is important, um especially in those moments early on. and And a lot of the reason that you can move really fast is that founders will often do things by themselves. They're they're burdening, they're they're shouldering the entire burden.
Speaker: I think founders and leaders that sustain that growth, that make it far and not just fast, bring people with them. Interesting. And I saw a lot of that. There were just amazing people there.
Speaker: What do you think the role of timing is in the success of Carvana and the leaders that were there to execute on it? Um...
Speaker: Market timing in particular.
Speaker: um I think, you know, timing is important. And i think, you know, you see...
Speaker: The way that a leader can pivot and take a different strategic approach when when timing is not their friend, when there are macroeconomic headwinds, when something happens that are outside of their control, a good leader understands how to control her controllables and and and keep people wanting to follow them.
Speaker: um and i And I saw that at Carvana and at Nu, which was the company I was most recently at. I was the CFO for a company called Nu Inc. We did electric vehicle technology.
Speaker: um i was only there for about two years, but it was the the the perfect antidote to Carvana. At Carvana, I learned to...
Speaker: to operate and scale. And we got we got lucky. um But we also worked very hard. And it knew I got to, you know, be be part of the tip of the spear that brings shareholder values in ways that maybe you didn't think that you would have to.
Speaker: Interesting. Give us a sense of that scale. What did what was the start at your tenure at Carvana? And what was the end? And maybe even now where are things, I mean, give us that arc. Yeah. So, candidly speaking, I really try not to keep Carvana numbers in my head anymore. That's fine. ah That said, there are some, you know, some moments that were critical.
Speaker: um I think I was around the 300th employee in mid-2016, and by the end of that calendar year, we had more than 3,000 employees. How many? I mean, 3,000. just... three thousand it just We grew very quickly. um Looking back, it's it's um the the the the work that it took, the collaboration that it took, um the iteration that it took, um all sort of mystifies me.
Speaker: But one of the, you know, the key sort of metrics that we would talk about a lot, at least while I was still at Carvana, was that we sold double the number of retail vehicles every year that I was there. Okay. And um that's scale.
Speaker: That is scale. Yeah. That's massive scale. Yeah. So I'm going to cut across your entire experience base. So Carvana and new and everything else you've done,
Speaker: And this is under a backdrop. We don't interview a lot of cfo types, finance types. Okay. But it's an integral part of the whole supply chain of making a business run.
Speaker: How important do you believe trust is in a role like you have been in?
Speaker: I think trust is very important. And in particular, um within the C-suite. And first, to sort of reference back to your comment that you don't you don't chat with many CFOs, it's interesting because I think...
Speaker: There are a lot of CFOs out there who would view themselves as not at all entrepreneurial. That's the the stuff of founders and of CEOs. um what's What's interesting, though, is that I sort of shift that perspective and and and and believe I'm very entrepreneurial because I want to be the the person who's sitting next to the founder and really at that intersection of their big vision and strategy and execution. And that's really where a CFO can be highly impactful.
Speaker: Again, early on in a company's life stage, a CEO may go it alone. But at some point, if they want to keep going and they want to go far and they want to go fast, they're going to need somebody sitting next to them.
Speaker: And so, you know, I think about these big ideas that are fragile in their entrepreneurial state. And it's the people around the idea that care about it, that buy in, that get on board, that are going to make it strong and durable.
Speaker: Yeah, and that's powerful. that I never thought about it that way. Well, i think I think you're not alone in that. um But I've only worked for startups after leaving public accounting, and it energizes me.
Speaker: But i'm I'm not the person in the room with the the first big idea. I'm the person in the room saying, yes, and here's how. um No, i'm goingnna I'm going to just say this like i've been I've grown companies. I've been part of startups up.
Speaker: worked at many levels in corporate and on my own as a consultant and I've done it all. And as a CEO, founder kind of person, i need my right hand and my left hand.
Speaker: My right hand is COO, the person that's going to be putting their shoulder into it and just making it grind it out, making sure that we're doing what we're there to do, whether it's a product or service or whatever.
Speaker: The other hand is my CFO. They're gonna make sure that we have the right fuel, the right resources to make it all happen. In my days, I've struggled the most with that left hand, with that CFO side.
Speaker: I've had very brilliant, operators that have taken my companies and sort of multiplied them higher and higher. But our Achilles heel has always been that CFO side.
Speaker: So very interesting. Interesting. Can I ask, please is that because you haven't found the right person Really? I haven't found the right person. And and what I've done, and what I've had to do is I've had to grow my own, basically roll my own. I've had to take people that maybe were not in the right space and and help them to move into that role, which has been effective.
Speaker: But I think from the get-go, I've seen ah things come and go that if I had the right sort of foundation in a CFO, we could have gone further and faster.
Speaker: Very much like you, maybe, I'm not the ideas person. So I'm ah i'm a ah Boy Scout. I'm a woodsman. I love, I was searching rescue. I'm an outdoors guy. And I use this analogy a lot.
Speaker: I use the analogy of a fire. To make a fire, you need three things. You need oxygen, you need fuel, and you need sparks.
Speaker: I am like 99.8% oxygen. Okay. So I will not be the original idea of something. And that's the spark. That's the spark. you can You can find the spark. That's like the CTO. That's like the person with the idea.
Speaker: And then you have the fuel, which is the COO and the CFO combined. I think to see if the CFO is sort of both a little bit of fuel, little bit of oxygen.
Speaker: So I'll put my shoulder in there all day long. But if you don't have the resources to to make it happen, there's a struggle there. Would you agree with me would you have another thought? and No, I think that's some I love. I love the metaphor. um And, you know, it's interesting. I think, you know, whether earned or not, there is a stereotype about finance people that they are.
Speaker: Very numbers driven that they they're not there to really buy into the story um that they sit in their dark room and, you know, on their spreadsheets, which, you know, don't get me wrong.
Speaker: love me just a blank Excel. Just what am I going to build today? um it But i do i do believe that, at least in my personal experience, the power, and maybe that's the oxygen, comes from collaboration with others.
Speaker: A CFO and a COO are just the just two peas in a pod. um I have found that the only way that I get the numbers to look like what I want them to look like is to change something within the organization, something upstream. And the only way you do that is to talk to your operators to understand what's going on and and what you can change, what levers.
Speaker: I think a CFO certainly is going to have to say no sometimes. Mm-hmm. But the right person sitting next to the right founder or CEO or COO is going to say yes.
Speaker: And yeah in particular, in situations where resources are limited, which, by the way, is always um just, you know, somebody who can take vision, scenario plan and talk strategy towards all those scenarios. And that's how you that's how you get stuff done.
Speaker: So let's talk through a scenario. Okay. This is something that I that i toy around with and and there's others that know about this sort of concept. Should a company change its way of operating to suit the financial framework that it has or should it be the other way around?
Speaker: In other words, let me say it a different way. We have a process in place that we do ADF, ADF all day long. okay That's how we've done it. We've grown up that way in our startup.
Speaker: Now we're we're graduating to the big leagues and now we have an ABCDEF that does it. Should we change the way we do things to suit our financial process or should the financial process adjust to the way we do things historically?
Speaker: If you say financial process, maybe the answer is no. However, if you mean financial process in terms of results, I think the bottom line that
Speaker: you know, maybe we don't directly talk about as as much, is that businesses only exist to make money. And so if you're not making money or you're wasting resources, then absolutely.
Speaker: i i always say um with love, if you're spending money, making money, or counting money, I'm invited to your meeting.
Speaker: And that's because I care about collaboration. i want to be there to A, understand the business. It's critical that a CFO doesn't just understand the money, but understands what we're doing and why we're doing it.
Speaker: And B, so that I can be a good partner and say, well, here's a scenario. Here's what could happen. Here's a different way to do it. Or yes, I would love to do that. And we have to Find the money.
Speaker: oh So, um but if it's just process that you're talking about, you know, the way we count money, then I think that should be about collaboration. in it And it speaks to your previous question about trust.
Speaker: You've got to be able to have those conversations with people that you trust.
Speaker: I think it's very important that everyone feel like their voice at the table is valued. And if you're in an organization where finance isn't valued, um then, you know, maybe it's not the spot, but it's also just, i think, ripe for change and ripe for maybe the right person to come in and facilitate connection and communication.
Speaker: which I don't think CFOs usually lead with. um But that's that's where I feel like the secret sauce is. Collaboration always looks like competence. Yeah.
Speaker: There's another metaphor I'll use regarding a trip I took last year to Oaxaca, Mexico. okay ah And we they were guiding us around and they showed us this field back in the Mesoamerica days. This is like 3,000, 4,000 years ago.
Speaker: And with they the yeah the the people in that area, the Toltecs in particular, they developed this planting system that required, they called it the the three sisters.
Speaker: Okay. Okay. Corn, squash, and beans. They planted them together. Because the way they were actually, they grew and this and that, they would sort of support one another and they could have a season of corn.
Speaker: And when the corn stalks would fall, it would put the nutrients back into the earth and and all that. And so I see that right now with a lot of the people in the industry. Startups are really a lot of the times focused on the CEO as the hero. i mean, there's movies about it.
Speaker: ah You don't hear about CFOs ah in the center of a movie. You see hear about Zuckerberg, you hear about Steve Jobs. Occasionally you hear about like a Tim Cook that maybe came from more of the operations finance side, but those are rare.
Speaker: Do you have anybody in your domain that you look up to that is CFO or maybe a CEO or COO with a financial background?
Speaker: i I do. um And you're in your right that the CFO is not generally the focus. I have a good friend um who was a ah we have a similar background, came from public accounting and then she got into to finance and has been a CFO for a lot longer than I have. And she just took her first CEO role. umm So excited for her. And she's excited and seems to be naturally fitting into it.
Speaker: um
Speaker: That said, i don't just look up to finance people. um I look up to anybody who is going to embody the leadership qualities that I care about. And a lot of those people have been operators.
Speaker: I don't know how this happened, but some of them are lawyers, you know? So I am and' very social. i find that I'm at my best when I'm working with others.
Speaker: And um I will pick up, you know good qualities. I'm a Gemini, so I'm naturally curious. i i'm I'm highly influenceable by people, regardless of their backgrounds, um who care.
Speaker: I feel there's a bit of a kinship between people in the accounting world and engineers. Ooh, do tell. Right? Think about we're I'm an engineer.
Speaker: Oftentimes we're seen as behind the scenes. You know you just you put your coat underneath the the the door and you slide a piece to pay them. and and there're never see them. There's a joke about ah how do you tell the difference between ah an introverted and an extroverted engineer?
Speaker: An extroverted engineer will look at your shoes when they talk to you versus their own, of course. So i've I've worked a lot in the engineering domain and I've met some CFOs. i actually smoked cigars once a quarter with ah with a guy who is CFO of a venture capital company.
Speaker: What do you see are the elements that are missing in corporate America today from your vantage point? have to be a si CFO. what What are we missing as a as a market, as a culture to really advance our entire society forward? I know it's a bit of a lofty question, but I'm curious to get your take on it.
Speaker: You know, i would be remiss to make the assumption that we're missing anything. That said, um what we can use more of, I think, is that human element of connection.
Speaker: um Years ago, i had um an executive coach who I loved. And we worked on my personal brand for a while.
Speaker: And she had me come up with some sayings for how to how to describe my personal brand. And one of them that we landed on um
Speaker: was Say Love More. I came up in a very conservative Industry. Accounting, which is where I got my start. You know, I'm i'm in a a degree in accounting and I'm a CPA and I did 10 years in public.
Speaker: It's highly conservative. It's also the cutting edge of that industry. It's highly dynamic. um But you weren't friends with people you worked with. You didn't say that you loved them. um You didn't um talk about feelings.
Speaker: I think especially now as we're contemplating AI as a major business lever, that element of human connection is really important.
Speaker: And so to any person or company who feels like they had it and lost it or feels like they never had it, I think now is a very important time to harness it. Yeah, you like literally walked right into my next question. Oh, I love it when that happens. Yes.
Speaker: AI the 800-pound gorilla, maybe like 1,200-pound gorilla in the room. Sure, sure. It's getting fatter and fatter, you know? Maybe more muscle? I don't want to More muscle. don't want to judge. Okay.
Speaker: There's a substantial amount of activity, funding, and just overall energy going towards AI. I use it. I talk to people in the industry that are that are at the tip of the spear working on technologies that are way beyond my comprehension of what's happening.
Speaker: I talk to naysayers. I talk pretty across the board of those that are and involved with AI. I had a recent conversation with a young founder, and we were talking about filling out their C-suite.
Speaker: They have software people. they have everything laid out. And I mentioned you should find somebody who can help you with the numbers. The quote unquote bean counter. Their answer was, I'll get AI to do it.
Speaker: I can already tell by your reaction of what you're going to say. So tell me as that person, imagine if I was that person that said, I will just get a AI to do that all. What would you say to me?
Speaker: I would say um leaning on technology like that, especially in its infancy, ah to do all of anything is misguided.
Speaker: um Certainly, AI is going to do some of it and should do some of it. In a finance organization, there is a lot of manual work. um There is a lot of... um
Speaker: There are a lot of inefficiencies that I'm sure could be enhanced, eliminated with the use of AI. That said, again, companies exist only to make money.
Speaker: I'm not certain i would I would trust my entire finance organization to AI, and I don't think that even...
Speaker: if you could, that you, that you should. I think AI is a powerful tool. I definitely use it. I know that a lot of organizations are looking for more ways to use it. And I champion that. Go do that. Go harness this new technology. Go make it, go make it good.
Speaker: I don't see it as being something that eliminates human touch, that eliminates human perspective. Um,
Speaker: And I think we're stronger if we harness the technology and sustain human connection around it. Interesting.
Speaker: I had a um ah read this report and then I had a conversation with a friend of mine regarding this. It was about the idea that AI may disrupt the industry market-wide to the tune of about 85 to 90% unemployment.
Speaker: That was the conversation. i happen to disagree with that. I think it'll be closer to 40, 45. But the question was, or the the framework was, there was a ah founder and a CEO of an accounting firm.
Speaker: Happened to be accounting, not just for this conversation, but it was literally an accounting firm. And they had 20 accountants. accountants making a hundred and fifty k a year, okay And the case for AI, for why we're gonna have such crazy amounts of unemployment, was if that founder could employ a i and had the same workload,
Speaker: but reduce the workforce by instead of having 20, they would have four accounts that do the same amount of work. The profitability would skyrocket.
Speaker: This founder CEO would take home a bigger paycheck. The four that remained would take home likely a bigger paycheck. What do you say to that, that hypothetical framework?
Speaker: I think I'm with you that, you know, not having any other information 20 to 4 seems
Speaker: significant. That's a pretty big impact. I think I would have more questions than I would have answers after that statement. But again, you know, certainly i think that there are ways to find efficiencies.
Speaker: I don't know that the goal should be to eliminate headcount. I think the goal should be to always do things better and faster.
Speaker: I think the goal could be to reduce future headcount. You know, companies that grow, Carvana in particular, me we we're always hiring, always hiring. And the more that you hired, what did you need?
Speaker: You needed recruiters to be able to handle that hiring load. And at some point, you know, the the the operational model for the number of recruiters that the company needed was insane.
Speaker: Can you reduce that burden on the company to hire recruiters to be able to hire more people by harnessing AI technology? Absolutely. Is your goal to eliminate as many recruiters as possible? No. And this is coming from somebody who knows and understands that headcount is your most significant expense yeah most of the time, unless you're buying cars. And then that's also fairly significant.
Speaker: I think naturally there's gonna be fear with introducing new technology.
Speaker: And I think what I hope is that that is healthy fear. That we um we as an accounting community, as a business community,
Speaker: care and are using the technology in a way that makes the most sense for the end goal, which is really the user, the customer. um And beyond that, I guess we'll just see, you know, we'll just see.
Speaker: i did a podcast, a monologue about a month ago. And the title of the podcast was The Rise of the AI Augmented. leader And one of the things I said in that podcast, drawing from lots of resources and articles I'd read, maybe a little bit of chat GPT mixed into that as well, that your job will not be replaced by AI.
Speaker: Your job will be replaced by someone who knows how to harness AI. That distinction should light a fire under anyone's butt to get in motion, learn the tools, and get moving on executing with AI.
Speaker: Certainly. You know, it's interesting. I can't imagine that this is the first time this conversation has been had. It might not have been AI. Maybe it was Email. Yeah, and the internet. The internet. um Certainly, I think this phenomenon will continue. And I agree with you. I think we, too to to scoff and and and and
Speaker: and and let the fear... overtakes sense to the extent that you think that AI won't have an impact, think is is is short-sighted. um Likewise, um to take that fear and just not be able to move is is equally short-sighted. We can't ever stop.
Speaker: We can slow down, gain alignment, and move forward. It's important to keep moving, but we can't ever stop. And I think it's here. And I think we should find the positive and and and roll with it.
Speaker: Yeah, there was a moment I caught my 18-year-old son. He's now 18. At the time, he was probably like 13 or 14. He was doing homework, and he was doing English.
Speaker: And I'd walk by, and I'd look over, and he'd hide his phone real quick. And I went up to him, I confront but confronted them and I said, what's happening here And I've come to find out he using ChatGPT.
Speaker: So I was at that moment equally proud and equally disappointed that he was using that tool. Because certainly it's clear for, I know him very well, obviously, see he's not gonna be a ah literary you know giant.
Speaker: But having said that, you need to have a command of the English language written and and spoken as well. But he's using the available tools. He's using the what's out there. So I'm going to take the lens and kind of rewind a bit.
Speaker: And i want to find out where you came from. Okay. Give us a sense of where you grew up. You mentioned conservative in the workplace.
Speaker: How was it growing up where you grew up? And give us that sort of background. Okay. um I'm from Denver, Colorado. Okay. Born and raised. ah Go Broncos. You know, go Habs.
Speaker: um have an older sister who ah is only 20 months older than I am. She will say 21. not true. It's 20 and a half. I did the math. ok ah We ah grew up as rivals and now we are best friends.
Speaker: Gives me hope because I've got two boys that are 20 months apart. pretty pretty high Okay. Okay. um You know, let them, let them do what they're going to do. We fought and now we're very close.
Speaker: um And a lot of that is led by the older sibling. She's the only person in the world that I let boss me around. And I do, I let her boss me around. um
Speaker: I suppose it's it's it's accurate to say that my parents got divorced when I was young. For a while, i lived in California with my mom and my stepdad and his children. He had four and then they had one together. So that was seven.
Speaker: Wow. Interestingly, I was the youngest of two. And then very quickly... Plopped into like the middle of this massive family and was just the middle child. wow um i think that dynamic probably shaped a lot of who I am. My siblings certainly think so. um You know, I think I always wanted to be heard.
Speaker: And I was. And I was. But yeah, I graduated from high school in Colorado and went to school in Colorado and um and married my college sweetheart.
Speaker: Is that what brought you to Arizona? It is. Yeah, he's a ah soil scientist by academic discipline. He's in agriculture now. He came to Arizona and ASU specifically to get his PhD. such a smarty.
Speaker: And um we did long distance for three years, which ended up working out well. I was young in my career and working really hard, and he was working on his PhD. And turns out he's a great phone talker.
Speaker: So it worked, it worked out. And then I moved to Arizona 15 years ago, which is crazy. Wow. And, um, yeah. Do you come from a family of CFOs or, or you have like, your parents have like impeccable credit and like, just everything's like super organized or, I mean I'm trying to figure out like where you came from. Where does this, this, this mindset and acumen come from? Cause you can always see parts of it as you're growing up.
Speaker: Hmm. So I thought I was a rebel growing up. Turns out um maybe maybe not both of my parents, my dad and my my mom, um were accountants. they They both graduated with degrees in accounting. But hear me out. Okay. All right.
Speaker: um Neither lasted very long in public accounting. My dad worked for Arthur Anderson. My mom worked for a small firm called Cooper's and Libran, which and I believe now is PWC. You know, it went from the big eight to the big four.
Speaker: um And they didn't, you know, they didn't last very long. um And that's fine. ah You know, the the typical, the typical 10 years, two years, and I spent 10 years.
Speaker: I think the reason I went into accounting is because I knew I wanted to go into business. And accounting is by far the most difficult discipline within the business school.
Speaker: um It's the most technical. And I do hard stuff. I wish I were a little bit different. I wish I didn't always have to do the hard thing. um But I do. And fun fact, when I started in school, I was planning to double major in chemistry and accounting.
Speaker: i That's hurting. I was very good at at chemistry in school and I loved it. And I wanted to start my own cosmetics company. Wow. So took took you know freshman chemistry, did very well, um and then dropped the major because I realized two things.
Speaker: One, I didn't want to work that hard. And two, you don't need a major in chemistry to start a cosmetics company. Very true. So is that giving you more insight? Yeah, 100%. I think that you said something there that i want to I want to pull on that string a bit regarding the fact that Accounting is not easy.
Speaker: know It's hard. And it's scoffed at in ah in a way by sometimes the entrepreneurial community, much like engineers as well.
Speaker: And I think there's a lot of power in that, however. Do you know want a sleeper is a sleeper car? Right. It's this old beater that looks like it can barely run. But under the hood is this like finely tuned engine that can just like floor it.
Speaker: Yeah. Take off. I think having that background and having your entrepreneurial mindset is obvious why it took you from Carvana to the top, it took you from New Inc and so forth. I think i think that's evident that that that's so much power held within that, keeping a foot into the accounting domain and CFO and all these other things, but also something you said much earlier is truly understanding the business.
Speaker: Looking back now on one of my accountants I had back in the day, she did not understand the business. And we struggled because it was only about numbers for her.
Speaker: Walking her down to the shop floor, showing her her around, she only had a ah very minimal inkling to want to know more. She'd ask a few questions. Looking back now, I realized that If she would have fully understood what we did, she would have been more clever, ah more creative on helping our customers find the money, helping ourselves find money. And it would have been a different story altogether.
Speaker: Yeah. So you have any thoughts about what i just said? You know, interestingly, and and and circling back to AI,
Speaker: There might be some tasks on an accountant or finance person's plate that they want taken off. As I think about the evolution of the finance world, let's say over the last 10 years in particular, we ask a lot more of our finance folks.
Speaker: We want them not only to know the numbers and be highly technical, understand the books without...
Speaker: any sort of error or fraud.
Speaker: We also ask them to be highly strategic. We ask them to be partners to the operators. We ask them to share in the vision. And I think it's difficult to ask that of one person.
Speaker: And yet, I want to be that person. Because I do the hard stuff. Now it would be nice to have some of those small tasks taken off my plate. Absolutely. AI come in and, you know, let's work together and figure out what those things are. Interesting.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But I do think that in the right environment, accountants are, and finance, they're encouraged to be part of the business. Accountants are often referred to as the historians, right? They are looking to what you did previously to make sure that they document it the right way.
Speaker: Very important. My approach is I want to be side by side. and Certainly I have to document what we did, but the only way that I understand that, if I know that I got the number right, is to know what you're what you what you're doing, what you're working on. I connect to the numbers through my relationships.
Speaker: I think that started early in my career as an auditor. You know, you're given the set of financial statements and you don't really know how the numbers got there. So you have to ask and you start with the people because they tell the story.
Speaker: i think, you know, the numbers give you data and the people give you context. And so I want to be working side by side. And a lot of times at Carvana in particular, i felt like finance led initiatives.
Speaker: We saw numbers we didn't like. And like I said, the only way without cooking the books is to get into it. And so I was boots on the ground talking to people about fuel costs and vehicle repair costs because I want to be part of the business. I want to shape it. I want to understand it. I want to be a member of the team. And I don't want to just follow behind you and, you know, record invoices and be the historian. I,
Speaker: um I wish I had a crystal ball so I could see what was coming. But without that, given that that's not really a thing, what you have is your relationships.
Speaker: True. We're going to play a little game. We're going to do a handful of rapid fire questions. First time I've ever done this, by the way. Okay. Okay. All right. So it just came into my mind. Race all around. there'll be it It'll only be like four or five questions. Okay. And these are going to be, I want to get your guttural reaction. i want to get a sense of of what your first thing about what these questions are.
Speaker: book of Okay, you're you're working on this ah this big spreadsheet and you're trying to get this budget to balance and you're off by 14 cents. What do you do?
Speaker: You move on. Okay, at what point do you not move on?
Speaker: You don't move on when you think that the error or imbalance is a result of your process. If you've got an error somewhere upstream in your balance sheet, a formula that is wrong, that is creating issues that will compound over time. But if for some reason you just have this one time error of 14 cents, I'm not certain that that's
Speaker: worthy of your time. Okay. Second question. Would you work for a private equity company whose job would, your job would be to go into a company, do some of the forensic financials, and then make the decision whether you're whether you're going to buy the company or not?
Speaker: Sure. Why? I'm a girl who likes an open door. Okay. Yeah, i don't um I don't say no immediately to much. Again, I think that's the Gemini in me. I'm just curious.
Speaker: So without knowing more, there's no reason for me to close that door. Sure. Okay. Similar but different question, which is always kind of an oxymoron. Would you ever go into academia?
Speaker: No. Why? They don't make shit for money. Okay. that's That's clear as day. Next question. Would you ever put on the CEO hat yourself?
Speaker: Yes. Why?
Speaker: I think...
Speaker: The way that I look at a C-suite, regardless of the actual capital structure of a company, is that you're all co-owners. And when I look at the other executive officers, I ask myself, would I go into business with you?
Speaker: And that's a powerful question because a lot of times the answer might be no. um Of those executives, the CEO is the most powerful when you ask that question because they're the ones leading. They're the ones at the end of the day, even though as a chief financial officer, I bear responsibility. The CEO is at the top.
Speaker: I would hope that someday i would care about something enough and love something enough that I want to take that seat. Interesting. see how it goes.
Speaker: yeah Chess, checkers, or poker? Ooh! I don't play any of them. Chess. Mainly because it feels like a fun activity to drink whiskey, too.
Speaker: I'm a whiskey girl. Okay. Well, ah the last question I have for you, and this is really geared towards
Speaker: ah a wider audience. Mm-hmm.
Speaker: What would you say to somebody that is early stage in their career? We're talking about maybe even in university, maybe not. i mean, we're talking early twenty s that is looking for guidance, irrespective of the financial side and just in general.
Speaker: You have this person that really looks up to you or that comes to you and with a question like, what should I do with my life? Do you have any any guiding principles that they could use for which they can lean on to help them through this time?
Speaker: Yeah, i think so. um i mean, speaking with humility and and the vantage point of what works for me, I'd say um the first thing anyone should do, 21 or not, is to take care of your body. You only get one.
Speaker: And when you're in your 20s, you think, you know, you're still made of half rubber, you know, like you don't, you you so some people might not think as much as I might think now about taking care of their body, which includes moving.
Speaker: um It includes a good skincare routine. You know, when you're young, you don't think about longevity, but longevity is important. um I think the second thing I'd say is
Speaker: You know keep the people. You meet people and you just can't even predict the way that relationships are going to compound over time. And um I think it's really important, again, with that vantage point that Longevity matters, you know, to to make relationships and never discount an opportunity or so or a person based on where they're at right now or where you're at right now.
Speaker: I love an open door. The third and final thing i think that I'd say is
Speaker: We talk a lot about growth. You talk a lot about growth. But it's difficult to take an honest look at yourself and find space for growth.
Speaker: And growth needs room to grow. And so to be able to understand things aren't that perfect, where you have opportunities, and then really do the internal work to...
Speaker: to make the growth happen is really important. It often will occur in its most significant form when you're at a low point.
Speaker: And that's hard to think about when we're low. I had a leader who used to say, probably still does, play, always play like you're behind.
Speaker: He was so worried about becoming complacent. And I loved and hated that, just super candidly, because I think it's really important to celebrate the wins and let people feel their progress.
Speaker: and not feel burnout from the sense that your goalposts are always moving. However, those moments of the most impactful growth are going to happen when you feel like you're behind.
Speaker: um And so i think you know having the mindset to let that happen is important. And if you kind of follow that structure I just laid out, it's very similar to what I do every day. I think similar to, you know, Maslow's theory of hierarchy. You've got your physical being, you've got your relationships, and then you've got, you know, just you at the top.
Speaker: Yeah. And so I think that's a good framework to follow. Interesting. Some of that advice really is echoed in my what my grandmother says. So she's an entrepreneur, she's built companies, and she has a second grade education. And so she's done it based on what she could do.
Speaker: And two of the things that she says ah that were kind of equal, but very distinctly opposite, which is kind of a topic of today for some reason. The first of which is keep moving.
Speaker: No matter what, if you're depressed, if you're down, if you're struggling, if you're on top, keep moving no matter what. And the other thing she said, and she actually said more recently, is that becoming irrelevant is among the most painful things you can endure.
Speaker: For her being so relevant in our community, and now that she's 94, becoming less and less relevant has been very painful for her. She's still relevant, by the way, but she feels as though that's been closing in.
Speaker: and So that's very interesting. Yeah. You know, um does she do yoga? No, she doesn't, but she cooks and that's her form of yoga. Okay. Yoga. I love it. I do it a lot. And it's, it's the physical flow that calms the fluctuations of the mind. So it's very important whether you're high or low to do it. Yeah. um And it's interesting that you talk about irrelevance because I think, circling back to your question about what would you say to a 21-year-old, they're finding their relevance at that point, you know. And i think it's an important growth trajectory to find
Speaker: Find a voice to begin with. Simply speak. Do what you can. and then I think the next stage is finding the voice. You know, you've you've been around enough leaders. You kind of know what it good leadership sounds like. And then finally finding your voice.
Speaker: um and um And I feel for your grandmother because, you know, that's an important growth aspect. trajectory and to feel like you're at the top of that.
Speaker: And if you don't keep growing, you don't keep moving. where are you going? The position I'm in now as, i mean, I run a company, I'm CEO. I'm going to just take that side. I'm going to focus for this last topic.
Speaker: I know I said that before, but this is some good things. coming, One of the the amazing things and perspectives I have on the other side of this table is that I get to speak with lots of people that bring in such insights, such power, such position, such experience that sometimes I just want to create this dream team.
Speaker: I'm not kidding you. I see people and I'm like, man, if this person could be connected with this person with that idea, you get the the fuel and the oxygen, let's find the spark and make this happen.
Speaker: That gives me so much ah perspective and pleasure to have that that distinct perspective. position And so I guess the last thing I want to say is thank you for being on this podcast. Thank you for your sharing your time and your insights.
Speaker: And my final question promise is what do you want to be remembered for?
Speaker: that stuff um i I laugh. um Not because it's not a brilliant question.
Speaker: Did you, do you, do you like Chelsea Handler? don't know who that is Chelsea Handler, the comedian? Maybe, remind me. She's had podcasts and TV shows like Chelsea Lately and.
Speaker: Yeah, I think know what you're talking about. Okay. And she's highly irreverent and blonde. Very much so Yes. I know exactly you're talking about now. Highly highly irreverent. I get it. I, um, I think she's actually funniest in written form and I've read many of her books and her most recent book is titled I'll Have What She's Having.
Speaker: And in it, she describes this this woman um that when she was younger, she hoped she would become.
Speaker: and And she describes her in in in beautiful detail. And then sort sort of through her stories, she realizes, i am that woman.
Speaker: And... um And so i suppose at a high level, I'd love to be remembered for being the woman I want to be, which is probably a beautiful intersection of of um beautiful on the inside and the out. um I think we're all our own form of psychopath, if I can say that. One of my um one of the ways that I demonstrate that is I keep a very tight calendar.
Speaker: um But the reason I do that is because I do what I say I'm going to do. And um a lot of what I say I'm going to do is I'm going to be there for people that I love. And so all of their stuff, birthdays, appointments, um their things, like when they lose someone or something special in their life, I put it in my calendar. And I'm always, always is a strong word. I try to be um attentive to them.
Speaker: through use of my calendar. um But yeah, I think somebody who's beautiful on the inside and the out, who cares about herself first. um If I'm not at my best, nobody's getting my best.
Speaker: um And then somebody who uses that best for the for the people that she loves. That's brilliant. And I hope that circle is wide. Yeah, that's brilliant. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Manny. Cheers.
