Transcript
Speaker: The voice of growth, mastering the mind and market, timeless wisdom, proven strategies, and the deep work that creates lasting success. Like and subscribe to stay aligned with what truly drives results.
Speaker: The swamp is sadness, depression, feeling sorry for yourself, feeling stuck, man, this is actually a very powerful thing.
Speaker: You can visit the swamp, but you just can't stay there. I came from that. i used to live in that, and now I don't. No one can actually hurt you emotionally without you allowing it or you hurting yourself.
Speaker: These past failures, heartbreaks, humiliations, experiences that have once defined you are now just reference points along the way.
Speaker: Some people revisit the past, not for wisdom, but to reinforce their identity. If they don't understand or don't they don't choose to wanna know who I am, it's truly their loss and not mine.
Speaker: The ultimate stoic move is to return from the swamp cleaner than when you arrived.
Speaker: Good, you're stuck.
Speaker: Welcome to the Voice of Growth podcast, Mastering the Mind and Market. My name is Manny Turan, and I'm your host. Visiting the swamp. I had a very impactful podcast just recently with Sarah Chisholm, the founder and the CEO of Wild Rye Baking Company.
Speaker: Man, what an impactful podcast. Among the many lessons that we talked about and learned during this podcast, there was one phrase that kept on coming up in my mind.
Speaker: And that is the idea of visiting the swamp. She had somebody in her life talk about how you can visit the swamp, you can't stay there. So what is the swamp?
Speaker: The swamp is... Sadness, depression, feeling sorry for yourself, feeling stuck, vis-a-vis the swamp.
Speaker: All these are elements that are the swamp, sadness. And why this particular thing rang true for me is because of this weekend I visited the swamp.
Speaker: I went there. I went there accidentally. And the reason I went there is primarily because of a song. For whatever reason, some songs kind of transport me back into that swamp.
Speaker: It was a mixture of this this song and being on the road to my hometown and having all these emotions hit at the same time.
Speaker: to the point where I got a massive lump in my throat, my eyes were watering, and I was filled with this mixture of sadness and nostalgia and also bittersweet happiness and gratitude. It was this mixture of emotions.
Speaker: And i was I just let myself sit in that swamp. So that was the impetus of this podcast. We spent some time from that point until now really looking inward and figuring out, man, this is actually a very powerful thing.
Speaker: And so we compiled a list of elements that are reflective tools to use regarding the swamp. The first thing is you can visit the swamp, but you just can't stay there.
Speaker: You can't build a house there. You can't put up shop there. The swamp is a place where you can get stuck, get bogged down, and essentially die there.
Speaker: I have met people in my life that have lived in the swamp. They, for whatever reason, got off track, ended up in the swamp, couldn't get out.
Speaker: Chose not to get out. The swamp is a place where nostalgia and memories go to die. And a lot of people live in that, the past ah with memories.
Speaker: I myself struggled with that for a long time. I myself was a person who lived in this bimodal world of Partially in the future, partially in the past. Partially in the future, partially in the past.
Speaker: Sometimes I'd have moments where I'd be a lot in the future and then a lot in the past. And I have worked very diligently over the past about 15 years, actually, to get that bimodal life living into a place where I spend the majority of my time in the present here.
Speaker: Yeah, I can look in the future, of course I do. i look at This is what I do. I do trend casting, I do i work with with clients, and I work with my own company, and I and i look to the future, but it's based on a framework that is necessarily not necessarily soothsaying or reading the tea leaves, per se.
Speaker: I also do spend time looking in the past. It is important to look in the past for a lot of trajectories of trends and where are you going? Where have you been? Important. And I do spend time in the past reminiscing and enjoying these moments, but I don't get stuck in that swamp. I don't get stuck in these memories that used to really overwhelm me and I would spend way too much time there.
Speaker: However, This weekend, driving down that song plane, the location of where I was, all it hit, and I fell into that swamp.
Speaker: I fell into that swamp and I had these memories and all these things were welling up. And I just let it play out. I didn't thrash around. i didn't try to forget. i didn't try to drown it or ignore it.
Speaker: I stayed in that swamp. And these are the reasons why it's important to stay in that swamp, but not too long. So the swamp in part, the second thing is that reminds us of why discipline is so important.
Speaker: The swamp is a, literally a reminder of all these elements that were part of a different version of you that you have now departed into this new world.
Speaker: The word perfectory that this consulting company that actually produces this podcast comes from a word perfectus, which means to depart and to succeed.
Speaker: So this is your journey away from that swamp. And it should be a stark reminder of why discipline, why what you're doing matters.
Speaker: And as I drove and as that, feeling of the swamp began to move away from me, I was reminded of, wow, I came from that. I used to live in that.
Speaker: And now I don't. This is why discipline is important. Discipline has a lot of definitions, but the one I'm gonna use today is about a flywheel.
Speaker: A flywheel is this massive heavy wheel that takes some energy to get started. And once it's started, it's hard to stop.
Speaker: So discipline is, for today's definition, motion towards getting that flywheel moving. And this is why it's a reminder, because in order to get out of that swamp, we need the daily discipline.
Speaker: moment by moment. We've talked about atomic habits a lot. We've talked about these 1% movements in that direction in order to ah change our identity to achieve our quote unquote goals, which we've talked about goals in the past as well.
Speaker: But the idea here is our identity is no longer a swamp thing. Our identity is now who we are and who we're becoming today in this world, not in this world, in this world.
Speaker: These past failures, heartbreaks, humiliations, experiences that have once defined you are now just reference points along the way.
Speaker: The visit to the swamp is not necessarily a self-punishment, but more of a recalibration. It is resetting your intention.
Speaker: And that is the the thing that I got so clear about for when I got through this, these experiences and on that drive. Number three, as part of that first, that number number two, pain is a compass, but only when used correctly.
Speaker: Pain, man. The pain that we endure in life is 100% self-inflicted.
Speaker: It's hard to imagine that is actually true. When we experience pain because of something in the world, that pain is self-inflicted.
Speaker: It has been a huge eye-opener for me. And it's hard to really sometimes calibrate that that's even real, but it is. When we have pain it in ourselves, it's because we have allowed it or created it to happen.
Speaker: It is not something that no one can actually hurt you emotionally without you allowing it or you hurting yourself. So the swamp is a reminder to use this pain as a compass, to steer you away from it and towards something else.
Speaker: Sitting in that in that swamp and reminding the reminding yourself that the discipline is what's going to get you out, reminding yourself that the world of that pain of that discomfort is temporary and should it should give you energy and momentum away from it.
Speaker: And that's why the pain is so um is so important to remember because it helps guide you away from that situation. So study it, stay in it.
Speaker: I did not try to get out of it. I just sat in that moment and let it play out. When the song was over, another song came on and two songs later i had pacified that situation.
Speaker: And I actually filled that moment with gratitude. No longer there. Discipline got me out. I don't wanna go there because it hurts anymore.
Speaker: Got me out of there. The problem is, number four, that memory can become an emotional addiction.
Speaker: I saw my grandmother on my dad's side live this way. And I can't imagine because, so my father died when I was very young and she it really changed her from what I understand.
Speaker: and she became a different person. Her identity was no longer what it was. was now somebody that was had a massive hole in her heart. And I can't even imagine losing a child.
Speaker: i it just It's beyond my comprehension. But she lived in this world and that memory of my father became an an addiction for her.
Speaker: And i remember trying to pacify or get her her out of that world. And she just stayed in it. She was addicted to the memory of my late father.
Speaker: And honestly, that was her her way of dealing with the extreme pain and loss for decades. Some people revisit the swamp, not for wisdom, but to identify to reinforce their identity.
Speaker: I'll say that again. Some people revisit the past, not for wisdom, but to reinforce their identity. How many people do you know, or maybe yourself, they go back and think about the past and sit and you're happy and you sit there imagining a time that had already passed And you re you revisit that place over and over and over again. I have people I know that still live in high school.
Speaker: They're my age that still live in high school. Every time I talk with them, they're always bringing up high school. Do you remember this person? you remember that time that this happened? And and i we it's not up to us to try to change that in them.
Speaker: That's their life. That's their identity. That's their own cross to bear. I myself, don't wanna live that way. I wanna live right now in the present. I wanna be fully present for my children, for my partner, for my my friends and my business associates. I wanna be present.
Speaker: And if I'm living constantly in the past, I would not be able to do what I do here and other places with respect to my leadership. I have built up a company as Tara and We built this amazing company and this amazing culture and all this momentum was was in play.
Speaker: And that chapter has turned and that is no longer a thing. Now I can wallow in that. I can go back and and identify my my identity of being as terror guy, or I could have it as a stepping stone, a building block that got me to where I am today.
Speaker: I choose the latter. Do I go back every once in a while to the visit that particular swamp? I do, but it doesn't last very long. And it's actually accidentally more than not.
Speaker: There is some strength, by the way, and being able to visit the swamp when you want to with intent. I'll get to that in a second. Stokes would say you are rehearsing suffering.
Speaker: At some point, remembering becomes self-sabotage. Keep that in mind. Number five, your past deserves respect, but not control.
Speaker: When you look back into that swamp, into your past, into these memories, and into the heartache, deserves a certain amount of respect. That old vision of you survived something, grew from something, became something else.
Speaker: So respecting that past, respecting the swamp for what it is, is something you should definitely do. If you honor the past, if you honor the swamp, then you don't have to necessarily push it away.
Speaker: It's okay being from the swamp. It's okay spending time there briefly, but you've got to get out. You've got to get to a place where the the outdated, Identity of you remains there.
Speaker: And it's a new you. It's a new way of living. It's a new experience pathway that you're in now. Honor that. Number six, the swamp creates contrast.
Speaker: In today, in right now, There is a sharp and distinct contrast from where I was in the swamp, in my mind, having those feelings, how it was when I was driving down to my hometown.
Speaker: The swamp is contrast. How I was back when I was creating the swamp during my Aztera days, during my high school days, whatever it was, these are all chapters in my life.
Speaker: that each of them is a contrast from where I am today. Black and white in some ways, more gray in others. How I was in high school, I was actually speaking to a few friends and um
Speaker: I was so different in high school. I was so different in college. I was so different in my early career. I was so different in my marriage when I was married. I was so different, but I was the same.
Speaker: There are core elements of my personality that have remained the same. And the ones that have not, the ones that have evolved are because of pain that I have endured that have caused me to create systems and habits that have reformed my identity.
Speaker: Simple as that. It's been very difficult. It's been a lot of hard work. And um I have a few people in my life that I still interact with. that remember me the way I was in the past.
Speaker: Their entire narrative regarding me is up a if of a different identity, a different chapter of mine. They go back five, six chapters and that's what they have in their mind.
Speaker: And it it is ah it is frustrating because I have evolved. I'm a different person. I have grown and I have become stronger and more powerful. And it's,
Speaker: A little frustrating, I'm not going to lie, but I let it go. I can't control them. They are who they are. They're going to treat me the way they do because of their own narrative in their own mind, their own playbook.
Speaker: And as much as I want to stand up and say, no, no, no I'm different now. I'm different now. It doesn't matter. it's up to them to figure that out. It's up to me to live my life, to do what I do.
Speaker: If they don't understand or don't they don't choose to wanna know who I am, it's truly their loss and not mine.
Speaker: Number seven, use the swamp as fuel and not resonance. In other words, these moments when you visit the swamp,
Speaker: And like I told you a second ago, I went from the sadness, the lump in my throat, the watery eyes, reminiscing about my past in this hometown.
Speaker: i went from that moment to one of gratitude and strength. I have used the idea of visiting the swamp as a source of strength because I see that trajectory of who I was changing over time.
Speaker: And I use that as so much fuel inside because I have recreated myself as somebody who lived in the past a lot and have lived dozens of chapters in my day.
Speaker: I am proud of where I've become, who I've become. And that visit to the swamp is like super food. It is this fuel that has gotten me to where I am.
Speaker: And i have been very proud of the journey. There's a massive difference between reflection and reliving. There's a massive difference between routine reflecting and reliving.
Speaker: Reflecting You're reminiscing, you're remembering, you're temporarily in that place, mentally, emotionally, spiritually even, but not physically.
Speaker: Reliving is when you you're constantly there, you're constantly revisiting and you're being in that moment. And that moment is informing you in a negative way of where and how to live now, instead of departing from that,
Speaker: using it as fuel, and then making the jump into and more powerful, more more influential version of you today.
Speaker: The one creates growth, the other creates paralysis. Remember that. Number eight, nature itself resets through decay.
Speaker: That lesson is so stark for me because the swamp is a a rebirth of sorts.
Speaker: All the wildness, all the mud, all the the humidity, all the the yuck and the ick of the swamp is decay so that a new version of you can arise from it.
Speaker: I had a ah series of relationships that for me were were defining. And one of these in particular was a stark reminder of this exact lesson that a version of you has to die and has to decay so that a new version may grow and arise from it.
Speaker: That idea is a little hard to understand sometimes because we don't consider ourselves dying inside, but you need to really leave that person, that identity in the past, let it let it die, let it decay, and let that nitrogen rich soil and the bogs fuel who you are today.
Speaker: I look at pictures of when I lived in these moments that i sometimes visit in the swamp and they they bring me back temporarily for even a minute to these moments that I lived and how I felt and the people around me and who I was.
Speaker: Then I put them down and I move forward.
Speaker: The pathway to this number eight itself reminds me of amor fati, to love your fate.
Speaker: The swamp I created for myself over time was my fate. This moment right now, spending time with my audience is my fate.
Speaker: Embarking upon my day, having business meetings, having conversations with power players, having lunch with people, all the things I do, all of that is my fate.
Speaker: When things come across my path that will blow me down and knock me down and cause me to cry, cause me to struggle, cause me to give myself pain, that's my fate.
Speaker: All of it I should love. All of it. And you should too. You should embrace your fate. You should not put it away, but embrace it. Let it come in. Let it come in and embrace it like you do an old friend.
Speaker: Because that is your path. We can't change our path very much. Yeah, we can change, do this or do that. But things going to happen. Things will happen in life that will derail that.
Speaker: And it's through wisdom and through time that we remember these things more clearly if we choose to, because there's people I know that are my age or even more that still are bucking Broncos and still wanna push their fate away rather than to love it, to embrace it, to wrap it around them as a shield, as a cape to make bigger things happen in this world.
Speaker: Number nine, this temporary descent into the swamp can and will restore perspective.
Speaker: And sometimes it happens accidentally, like it did when I heard that song. And sometimes When you get to the point where you're a more advanced practitioner of stoicism, of mindfulness, when you've done the self-work, you can actually visit the swamp intentionally.
Speaker: If I go too long without visiting the swamp, I get comfortable. And comfort is a killer of your dreams.
Speaker: When you're too comfortable, you don't want to be in a place of risk, of suffering, of discomfort and such, you won't grow.
Speaker: You need to be uncomfortable to grow. You need to feel embarrassed and feel weird about doing new things. Otherwise you won't grow. Growth comes from discomfort. Growth comes from resetting your mindset about what you will endure to get to a certain point.
Speaker: I try to maintain things in my life that create discomfort, new opportunities, new directions, new friendships, new relationships, new aspects of learning where I don't know what I don't know, but I keep on learning anyway.
Speaker: AI for that matter. 18 months ago, two years ago, most people had no idea what AI is. Most people didn't know what ChatGPT or Claude or, and you know, all these things are.
Speaker: And now we're beginning to do more of that, but there's still a level of discomfort from a lot of leadership and people I know that don't wanna fully embrace because it makes them feel like they're a fool.
Speaker: You've got to go there. You've got to spend the time in discomfort, get a delve into that swamp if you need to, to reset yourself and cause the cascade of activity I've just gone through.
Speaker: i'm I'm serious. If I don't spend time in the swamp every once every month or two, briefly,
Speaker: then i don't you I don't gain the perspective. I don't have that decay to to create that the fertile soil in order for me to grow. And there's different versions of this, by the way. The swamp is one version. Reminiscing and thinking about the past is only one of them.
Speaker: There's a lot of other other tools and we'll go through these in this podcast. It's one of the cool things I get to do here is to share my perspective and my own growth path and also bring people on that have had massive experiences that have shaped them and shaped everybody around them.
Speaker: And I'm excited to share more here as the summer plays out. There's so many cool people we have have already had podcasts with and also have on the docket to have podcasts with.
Speaker: And a lot of these folks have been to the swamp, have been thrown into the swamp, have been chained to the swamp, but have decided to instead leave the chains there, leave the swamp, and walk into a new place identity for themselves and create massive success, massive change in their life.
Speaker: The last thing is the ultimate stoic move is to return from the swamp cleaner than when you arrived.
Speaker: That's the sense I got. That's how I felt. after having that lump in my throat, the watery eyes, reminiscing about people that have died, reminiscing about a youthful version of me who was bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, reminiscing about this sad town that has had its own version of decay, all these feelings hitting me, the swamp, boom, boom, boom, boom. boom And after that, all those feelings being transformed into gratitude and into a sense of peace.
Speaker: I felt myself
Speaker: sigh like that internally. Even now, right now, a little mini version of that swamp. I'm remembering how I was when I was visiting the swamp a few days ago.
Speaker: And even that is giving me a sense of that feeling of gratitude. of having experienced these wonderful things, my unique perspective.
Speaker: You have your unique perspective of how you got to where you are this moment. And maybe you're in the swamp this moment. Maybe you're you're actually in a bad spot.
Speaker: Maybe you're stuck.
Speaker: Fine. Good. You're stuck. Guess what? Now you are becoming unstuck. Maybe this podcast is that impetus to get you unstuck.
Speaker: And that would be amazing. Maybe something else that happens today is why you become unstuck. Maybe these are all planks that are laid upon the quicksand that eventually get you out.
Speaker: You've got to get yourself out. I go back to, and I always bring this up because it's so powerful. My grandmother, my 94-year-old grandmother has told me that if you're depressed, if you're down, if you're in the swamp,
Speaker: Keep moving. Get your ass up. Sweep. Rake. Walk. Cook. Live and love. Go out and do things.
Speaker: Because if we sit there in the swamp and we reminisce about the swamp and we are not moving and we're in the same surroundings that cause this triggering about the swamp, blah, blah, blah, all these things, we're going to remain in the swamp.
Speaker: But the stoic Flex is being able to take our experiences in that swamp, be dirty, covered with moss and muddy water, take a bold step, another bold step, and come out cleaner than when you went into that swamp.
Speaker: That's the flex. That's stoicism right there. Because anyone can fall into darkness, but it's those who choose light. on a minuscule, eventually a macro level, are the ones who create, who are impactful, and who are great to be around with.
Speaker: There's no doubt about that.
Speaker: So to round out, finish out the podcast, there's nothing wrong with visiting the swamp. Just don't live there. Use it as fuel, use it as decay, use it as a place of rebirth.
Speaker: And when you go to that swamp, be conscious of the fact that you're only visiting, that you're only there temporarily. i really thank Sarah for bringing that up and then having my experience like a week later when I was like, damn, I'm in the swamp right now.
Speaker: From that to this podcast, to your eyes, to your ears, hope this has been very impactful for you and has served you to help you even a bit walk your way out that swamp.
Speaker: Thank you for your time. Cheers.
