Transcript
Speaker: I'm Jane Williams. This is the Red Eye Podcast. You can hear our live broadcast on Saturday mornings from 10 till noon at 100.5 FM in the Lower Mainland.
Speaker: On the podcast today, Jill Thompson of Scottish Sport for Palestine on the complaint to the Office of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court against the presidents of FIFA and UEFA.
Speaker: On February 16th, a group of Palestinian footballers and Palestinian clubs joined with many others to file a complaint with the office of the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.
Speaker: They are accusing the presidents of the worldwide governing body for football, FIFA, and the Union of European Football Associations, UEFA, of aiding in war crimes and crimes against humanity in the occupied Palestinian territory.
Speaker: In addition to the footballers and clubs, the submitting parties are owners of the land, a human rights organization in Palestine, and a number of advocacy groups, including Just Peace Advocates, Euromed Human Rights Monitor, Irish Sport for Palestine, and Scottish Sport for Palestine.
Speaker: Jill Thompson is with Scottish Sport for Palestine, and she joins me today. Hello, Jill. Hello. Hi there. Thank you very much for having me on today, Jane. It's really our pleasure to have you with us today, Jill.
Speaker: Who are the current presidents of FIFA and UEFA? So the president of UEFA is Alexander Cheferin. He actually has a legal background and before he switched to football administration, and but he's presided over European football for about a decade. He kind of keeps quite a low profile, I think, compared to Gianni Infantino of FIFA, who we'll get onto in a minute. But I think if listeners are followers of European football, they would probably recognise him... You know, he would attend major finals. He'd give out the medals, the trophies to the winners, the runners up. And as well as heading up UEFA, he's also the vice president of FIFA, where he sits alongside Gianni Infantino, the president of FIFA.
Speaker: And yeah, Gianni Infantino also has a legal background and has been president of FIFA for 10 years as well. So you know Both of these men know each other well and they have headed up their organizations for a long time, yet they have done nothing to resolve this issue of illegal settlement clubs playing on Palestinian land.
Speaker: People in Canada would remember the FIFA Peace Prize that was handed to Donald Trump. I think that came from Gianni Infantino. Yes, exactly. I think that a lot of people were surprised about the Peace Prize being awarded. And it's interesting because we actually factored that in when we announced that we were going to be filing this case before the International Criminal Court back at the end of November.
Speaker: Gianni Infantino is a more of a notorious figure within football, and he's gained a lot of press attention in the last year through his close relationship with Donald Trump. I believe he's visited Donald Trump in the White House more than any other leader has, including leaders of countries. and in the past year.
Speaker: And it's interesting to note that he has visited him a lot more than, say, for example, you know, Mark Carney or Claudia Scheinbaum, who are also who also have hosting rights, you know, for the World Cup.
Speaker: And I think, you know, despite it it causing a lot of, I think, shock that he decided to give Donald Trump this Peace Prize, it was something that we sort of predicted would happen. Yeah.
Speaker: What does the complaint that you're bringing center on? So our complaint centers on how the presidents of FIFA and UEFA allow the inclusion of Israeli football clubs into their football structures.
Speaker: So these clubs are located in illegal settlements. They're built on land that's been stolen from Palestinians. And neither FIFA nor UEFA can actually be defendants for the International Criminal Court, but their leaders can because they, we argue, are responsible for the policies of the organisations. So essentially, we've filed two claims under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. So the first claim is that the presidents of UEFA and FIFA have assisted in war crimes, and that's through the transfer of a civilian population into an illegally occupied territory. so essentially our argument is that without the normalization of life in settlements, settlers wouldn't move into occupied territories and sport plays like a really important role in normalizing these settlements just as other business culture and, you know, community activities would. And and our second claim is that Infantino and Cefrin are actually assisting crimes against humanity, which is specifically the crime of apartheid. And that's because, know,
Speaker: These illegal settlement clubs that are built on Palestinian land also implement a system of apartheid. So Palestinians cannot actually enter the stadiums. They cannot you know they canno't watch the matches. They can't play in them. and They can't be employed by the clubs.
Speaker: And so these clubs are actually implementing like a system of racial discrimination, and they're doing it on UEFA and FIFA's watch. And is are UEFA and FIFA providing financial support to the clubs in the legal settlements?
Speaker: Yeah, so FIFA and UEFA give money to the Israel Football Association and that that money is distributed to clubs within Israel. And obviously these illegal settlement clubs form part of that. And we're arguing that by providing these clubs with competitive football, as I mentioned before, this helps to make illegal settlements more kind of seem more attractive to prospective settlers. And it also, you know, facilitates and legitimizes the system of apartheid, which discriminates against Palestinians.
Speaker: The complaint says that that these actions are actually in breach of FIFA and UEFA statutes. What do those statutes say? So both FIFA and UEFA have statutes which clearly state that a member association cannot play on the territory of another member association without that member association's permission. So, you know, for the same reason that U.S. soccer...
Speaker: could not build footballing activities on the land which is under the jurisdiction of Canada soccer. These statutes exist to protect the territorial integrity of the game.
Speaker: So by building clubs on Palestinian land, the Israel Football Association is in clear breach of these statutes, but it has not been sanctioned by FIFA or UEFA's presidents.
Speaker: And as well as the territorial integrity statutes, both FIFA and UEFA also have statutes which serve to protect individuals from discrimination. So it is the responsibility of the presidents of these organizations to apply these statutes. But despite, you know, football being used to help implement a system of apartheid against Palestinians, the Israel Football Association has not been sanctioned.
Speaker: You and the other complainants say that the presidents of FIFA and UEFA have full knowledge that these practices lead to human rights violations, apartheid, and war crimes.
Speaker: How do you know that? So both presidents of FIFA and UEFA, Gianni Infantino and Alexander Cheferin, were contacted by human rights organizations. So this includes Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Fair Square and more.
Speaker: So they've been warned on multiple occasions by organizations which had investigated the scale of the problem. There's also been separately investigative journalists that have looked into it. you know So it's a well-documented case. And, you know, upon being sent as clear evidence, rather than sanctioning Israel, the Israel Football Association, they have just simply chosen to ignore the problem and to allow the illegal settlement clubs to continue to play within their football structures.
Speaker: the The complaint also accuses the presidents of political interference. What's the nature of the interference that you're accusing them of? So I'm not able to go into specifics at this moment, but I can definitely say that the evidence we've gathered does show that both Gianni Infantino and Alexander Cheferin have cooperated with US and Israeli leaders to ensure that Israel absolutely retains its place within an international and European football.
Speaker: What are the next steps now that the complaint has been filed? So now that the complaint's been formally filed, there's a couple of things that could happen. So the office of the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court will probably conduct a preliminary examination to kind of confirm if the required elements have been satisfied of the filing and then they'll be able to decide whether they want to decline it or to open an investigation.
Speaker: And if they decide that they want to proceed to investigate it, There will probably be a period of evidence gathering. They may also seek arrest warrants or court summonses may also be issued. And if that happens, then this would actually set a really important precedent and give a lot of momentum, I think, to the campaign for justice for Palestine, especially, I think, within the sports movement.
Speaker: Just as a ah final thought, what would you say to people who say that sport is not or should not be political? and I mean, I think that sport has and always will be political. I think that...
Speaker: You know, people use sport as a platform in order to do really powerful political protests, but equally governments also use it for sports washing. And I think that anybody who's listening who thinks that sport isn't political should take a look at the FIFA World Cup White House Task Force, which does exist. And it's populated with some of the highest ranking officials in US politics. I think Trump's in there. There's various heads of department, I believe, and even the head of the FBI is in there.
Speaker: But I think it's really interesting because often I think we hear this phrase used that sport and politics should be, you know, kept separate by the very people that could make a difference. And I know that Alexander Cheferin and Gianni Infantino have both kind of argued separately that they are not responsible for resolving geopolitical conflicts. But we're not really asking them to. We're actually just asking them to apply their own statutes. And by not doing that, they're actually the ones that are really making this into a political issue. Well, thank you so much for speaking with me today, Jill.
Speaker: Thank you so much for having me on the show. Jill Thompson is with Scottish Sport for Palestine, and she joined me today from Europe. You've been listening to the Red Eye Podcast, produced by an independent media collective based in Vancouver.
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Speaker: Thanks for listening.
