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Accessibility for PDA pupils with The Access Hub
312 Plays3 days ago
In this episode we're chatting to Kate Whittlesey and Pat McMahon from the Access Hub about what it really means for a PDA or neurodivergent child to access their education. They cover why a child being physically present in school doesn't always tell the whole story, and what schools can do to make learning genuinely accessible for every child, as well as what The Access Hub is and how it can help students, parents and schools.
For information and guidance about your circumstances, you can get in touch with our support service through our website.
Guest links:
https://theaccesshub.co.uk/
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Transcript
Introduction to PDA Life Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to PDA Life, the podcast brought to you by the PDA Society, where we'll be exploring the highs and lows of pathological demand avoidance. I'm Rachel. And I'm Sarah, and we're your hosts.
00:00:14
Speaker
As the UK's only PDA charity, we're bringing together PDAers, carers, clinicians and researchers to answer the questions which matter to you most. Hello and welcome to this
Accessibility in Education
00:00:25
Speaker
week's podcast. Today we're going to be talking about accessibility in education for children with additional needs. I'm Rachel and I'm your host for today and I'm joined by Kate Whittlesey and Pat MacMahon from the Access Hub, an accessibility tool for schools. So welcome to you both. Thanks for joining us on our podcast.
00:00:42
Speaker
Rachel thanks for having us. Thanks for having us Rachel it's lovely to be lovely to be with you. So when people hear the word accessibility I think it's used a lot they often automatically think about those physical access things such as ramps or lifts so what does accessibility really mean when we're talking about neurodivergent children and young people?
00:01:04
Speaker
Well it's It's a massive question, isn't it? And it it it's one of those that really drives the heart of what we what we all do for our careers, our livelihoods, but also what actually means an awful lot to us about our daily lives. And i think one of the biggest misunderstandings around accessibility is that if you ask most people, what does accessibility mean?
00:01:27
Speaker
Straight away, they picture wheelchair or lift or wider doorways, et cetera. And those things, yeah, they're absolutely essential, Thankfully, society has become much better at recognising those more physical barriers.
00:01:41
Speaker
But when we talk about neurodivergence children young people, accessibility is something that's so much broader than that. and And in so many ways, it's less visible. It
Understanding Accessibility Beyond Physical Barriers
00:01:50
Speaker
really is. So I suppose for me, accessibility is about one simple question, really.
00:01:56
Speaker
Can this child genuinely access their education, their relationships and the opportunities that are around them? without constantly battling against that environment they're in And especially when we're talking about PDA, neurodivergence, that has to sit at the crux of what we're looking at in terms of education.
00:02:18
Speaker
So it's a very different question from asking whether they're physically present in school. So a child, yep, physically present, they're there. But over the years, I've worked with hundreds of schools, local authorities, families, professionals, and All across the country, one thing that's become really clear to me is that we often confuse that child in presence, so the attendance of a child.
00:02:41
Speaker
Child's there accessing the school educational environment. However, accessing is that question mark. Because we think when a child is sitting in the classroom, they're accessing education. But that is we know that's not always true.
00:02:58
Speaker
And ah child can be sitting very quietly at desk, and looking like they're coping perfectly well, but while internally, and I think this is where your parents, they know their children the best, don't they? And this is where your parents know that their child can be on the front looking like they're coping perfectly well, but internally they are working incredibly hard just to manage the noise, the light, the unpredictability, the social interactions, the social expectations that we have with society. And if we think about the world around us,
00:03:31
Speaker
even outside of education, that lots of your parents will know, there are continuous demands placed upon us. So if you think within a school environment, by the time the child gets home, child or young person gets home, there is nothing left at all.
00:03:48
Speaker
And that's when i've ah I really advocate for parents that parents will describe that moment, won't they? And I'm sure loads of your listeners can relate to this, that the child gets them from school and school saves.
00:04:01
Speaker
They were having a great being brilliant, being great. And the child gets to the door, drops the bag, and everything falls apart
Challenges for Neurodivergent Children in School
00:04:10
Speaker
at that point. And the parents left, then having to cope and guide their child through the meltdown, the exhaustion, the anxiety, and that complete emotional shutdown.
00:04:21
Speaker
And that's when the families then say to me, well, look, it feels like nobody believes her. Like, the school sees one side of the child, and we're seeing the other side of the child. And that's when, yeah, the reality is true for both experiences because the child's been holding everything together, but it's been at that enormous personal cost. And that's where we come back to that accessibility end, that accessibility is about reducing that cost.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yes. isn't there And saying that learning doesn't always happen in isolation. Well, it can't happen in isolation from wellbeing. So and this is that key to accessibility, isn't it? That,
00:05:00
Speaker
If the child feels unsafe, overwhelmed, using every single ounce of energy possible, it means that that environment isn't accessible for that child. yeah and And that's really key. So it's thinking about accessibility broader then, but yeah, great. Physical-wise, absolutely, really and we've got the bumps we've got that level of accessibility. Physical, however, is thinking about then what can we do for neurodivergent children in order to make education and environments outside of education, yet accessible. So quite a place to regulate, adapt to the timetable. And just knowing we've got to move past this, that these are special privileges, haven't we?
00:05:39
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And i I think very much as well of what you said about that the child looks like they're engaging, it looks like they're coping in school, but then the minute that they come home, then the parents, he's a very different child. I think many pd parents of PDA children will recognise that particularly.
00:05:57
Speaker
um And it means that it it does show that actually things aren't quite great school, even though it looks like they are coping in school, because otherwise you wouldn't have all those distressed behaviours the minute they set foot through the door at home.
00:06:09
Speaker
Absolutely. And we've got to, I think, be really clear that they're not special approaches and they're not about lowering the expectations either, but they're about removing the barriers. Yeah. So sometimes people will say to me, well, how on earth do we do that? And I take it right back to you wearing glasses. I'm a contact lenses.
00:06:28
Speaker
Rachel, you're wearing glasses. Pat, Pat, I don't actually know about you, in all honesty, Pat. I'm sure you let us know in a moment. However, it's it's thinking about We would never in a million years, would we expect a child with might be poor eyesight, a lazy eyesight.
00:06:47
Speaker
We would never, ever say to that child, or just just try and see harder. just trying Just try and see harder to see the board. Just look harder, pray harder. What are we do is move the barrier by making sure the child has the resources to use the glasses.
00:07:05
Speaker
if We go through the tests and everything else. And that's where I think some there's this misunderstanding around neurodivergent children. And that's what I love about the way that you do, Rachel, at PDH Society, that you've you've got you've got that real understanding of trying support everybody through, that it's not about making children fit the system is about making the systems flexible for the children and hopefully that's where access also supports this as well definitely so when sort of working with neurodivergent children then what you've you touched on a couple of them sort the sensory and the social what are the most common barriers that you're seeing for neurodivergent children when they're trying to fit in at school but other schools might not be noticing those things Yeah.
Invisible Barriers and Cultural Change Needed
00:07:52
Speaker
So the first one I always come to when I'm working with with any professionals or parents, one, when we're thinking about barriers, it's removing, especially within the educator sector, thinking about the obvious, I always say.
00:08:06
Speaker
Because for neurodivergent children, the barriers are happening every minute of the day. And because they're invisible to everybody else, they're therefore misunderstood. And so a lot like access up as well is formed on the basis of everyone, obviously we'll talk about that, home but but I was being called out to schools, multi-cademy trusts, on a regular basis.
00:08:27
Speaker
Obviously, yes, I earn a ah and living, I have to pay my mortgage, etc. But what felt really not right is that I was being called out and I'm being paid a wage by walking into the classroom and identifying the basics. And that didn't sit easy with me at all.
00:08:48
Speaker
And it was things like walking into the classroom where the lights are painfully bright or they're flickering in the corner. You've got all the chairs that are scraping across the floor that just make your body go, oh, whatever you want.
00:09:00
Speaker
Imagine you've got 30 conversations happening around you certain timetable changes. You're expecting to move from lesson lesson if you're in secondary with less processing time. Because as you walk along the corridor, you're busy processing the sounds, the noise, the feel of the floor, the echoing the bell going off, teachers shouting, et cetera.
00:09:19
Speaker
And all day long, you've got people giving you instructions. So what i like people to do is when we think about strategies, I like people start by thinking, right, they're in that situation.
00:09:30
Speaker
They're in a noisy classroom. And then we say to children, right, now need to concentrate on fractions, for example. kind And that is the reality for many children.
00:09:41
Speaker
and that's when for children with PDA, demands can then create that overwhelming anxiety that's then really misunderstood. So it really is thinking about or what are we asking and how are we asking this of children, especially then when we think about neurodivergency.
00:09:58
Speaker
And it's thinking about what people mean, changing the culture. What do we mean when we hear the word demand? Because most people, and this is nothing, on online I hope that I'm not insulting any individual professionals, we all do with human beings.
00:10:13
Speaker
if we look up the word demand, normally is thinking about activities such as like, go and put your coat on. Now you're going to complete the worksheet. Now you're going tidy your tray.
00:10:25
Speaker
A demand. But demands are actually everywhere around us. They're constant. So it's really having staff and schools to think about, okay, how many demands we're placing on the children with child, the young person.
00:10:40
Speaker
And therefore, what can we do to reduce that demand on through our language? thinking about phrase, because remember, even phrase can sometimes be a demand because it's like this is an explanation of you. This is what they want you So it really is thinking about seeing that world the through the lens of that child.
00:10:59
Speaker
um I know there are loads of resources on your website um and elsewhere about the strategies that we can use for neurodivergent children, but the critical one is I think we need to change the culture and the understanding and then look at the individual child, sit back, reflect, know the child, and look at what's happening for them. think once you start seeing that world through that lens, you understand why children can become overwhelmed, don't Exactly. And as you say, it's not it's not always just those obvious demands either. I know one that that we often hear a lot about is that it's that social demand, and it's it's often in those times when actually the school think that
00:11:38
Speaker
It's, oh, that's your non-demand time. That's your recovery time. Your break the time, your lunch time. Oh, that's what, you know, that that's when the time they can recover. And then come on, let's go back to learning. Actually, those break and lunch times, they're often more overwhelming than being in the class because the child has got to make the, you know, who am i going to go with? Where am I going to go? What am I going to eat? What are we going to talk about?
00:11:58
Speaker
And they're doing that without their support mechanism that they have in the classroom, their teacher, their TA or whatever structure support it might be. So it's difficult, isn't it? There's so many demands for them. It's so difficult. And that predictability, I think, is so important.
00:12:13
Speaker
And some people will say to me, well, when we When we send a child outside, we know that movement's are really important and therefore they have their free time and downtime, play time, and they know where the footballs are so they can go and get a football ball if they want to.
00:12:27
Speaker
But actually, if you think about that process, first of all, you've got to get through the corridors navigate all of that. What does change? What if the door that I'm going to isn't open?
00:12:40
Speaker
What if it's surrounded by people? What if I get to the cupboard where the ball is and actually my favorite ball isn't there or the ball that I know that I like isn't there.
00:12:51
Speaker
How do I navigate that? How do I navigate it if there's loads people I'm trying collect that ball? And you think about all these demands and when you strip it back, it's massive. So i love that I love the list of strategies we can use, like visual timetables,
00:13:05
Speaker
um yeah a sensory environment, sensory feedback, movement breaks, predictability, thinking about who's around us, thinking about there's loads things you put on the chair, the fidget, there are hundreds strategies, but it's really knowing the child.
00:13:21
Speaker
And what i sometimes see is you walk into an environment, a classroom environment, and everything has ticked on that layer. But a child doesn't know how to use it. Or the child hasn't been able to sit as an individual and spoken to, and the parents haven't been able to, it's just a checklist.
00:13:39
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's got to work for that child, isn't it? We've touched on some of this already and thinking about inclusion. We know, it you know, schools talk about inclusion a lot and thatre that they are inclusive. But what does actually genuine inclusion look like in practice? And how is it different from simply just expecting that child to fit in, to exist in systems?
00:14:01
Speaker
Oh, it's it's one of these questions, isn't it? That Kate's coming up and I
Inclusion as a Mindset, Not a Program
00:14:06
Speaker
think more so at the moment when we're looking at what's happening in terms of national legislation as well with the DSE guidance on inclusion hub, when we're thinking about then reforms and from working all over the country, i know that I could take 10 different people in different parts of the country and they vaguely say the same thing, but maybe with different meaning or different intent.
00:14:29
Speaker
So everybody would say inclusion is, well, making everybody feel valued. Everybody's got these equality, equality, and everybody would go along those lines. I know they would.
00:14:41
Speaker
However, it really comes down to the child. So I think inclusion has become one of those words that everybody uses, but without really understanding the looks of it. So if you ask the parent of a neurodivergent child what inclusion feels like, they'll probably tell you it's not about whether a child is physically in school.
00:15:02
Speaker
It's about it's whether their child feels safe. Does the child feel understood? value, but able to learn without constantly feeling that they're failing. And then throughout education and thinking about my career, I've spent so long supporting schools to be more inclusive. And one of the things that I've learned is that genuine inclusion, it isn't a program.
00:15:22
Speaker
And I think it's where we have to be really, really careful within society that it's not a program, it's not a policy or room where something's timetabled.
00:15:34
Speaker
It's actually a mindset. It's changing mindset. And this is where Access Hub really does push that through. It's changing a culture, changing the mindset of everyone.
00:15:45
Speaker
So it's a way of thinking that implements every decision we make. So when talking inclusion, we're saying, okay, how do we really help this child fit in so they can thrive?
00:15:58
Speaker
Not how do we help this child fit into what we already do? Right? Yeah. So it's saying need to change around this child so that they can thrive.
00:16:09
Speaker
And yeah, that might be what do we want to do, but and what can we actually do so that child we can thrive and what can we do to change what we're necessarily already doing? And that shift completely changed the conversation, doesn't it?
00:16:21
Speaker
It does. It does completely. And I think, you know, i and um I'm an ex-teacher myself and and i ah teachers genuinely do want to help those children to succeed. But is difficult you know that it's changing that mindset that you talked about. It's really difficult for schools to do that.
00:16:38
Speaker
And I think, yeah, it's trying to unpick why it's so difficult for schools that to get that change of mindset and put in those right reasonable adjustments for neurodivergent children.
Role of Leadership in Accessibility
00:16:49
Speaker
It's hard, isn't it?
00:16:50
Speaker
really hard. I think it's really important to note that we we do cover physical environment, communication, e cetera and the curriculum, but we we focus, we have a specific section around leadership because I think just that that ability to actually challenge, take a step back and look at our leadership and driving accessibility throughout school, it's such an important part that that that can be overlooked.
00:17:14
Speaker
Absolutely, and that links in, doesn't it, Pat, that we see so many many schools that have attendance meetings and attendance policies and reward programs and the consequences, et cetera, but nothing is changing. And that's where I hope the access hub, well, we know access hub through that leadership element, especially there's so many elements next to it. And we'll speak about that in the short while, but in terms of the leadership, it's changing the culture around that to think actually, okay, we've got these policies, but do these really meet the needs of our children?
00:17:50
Speaker
that i in school so yeah it's one we're definitely still working at aren't we Rachel yeah it's it's we're doing our best we're trying to trying to um train lots of schools which we do but there's still lots more to do out there and of course the impacts of the culture not changing has long-lasting effects doesn't it what sort of long-lasting outcomes on children's well-being have you seen that's when the when the system just doesn't fit the child it just doesn't work for that child Well, we it's that analogy, isn't it, that I think as a system, we say that we're not trying to put a round peg into the square hole or whatever the analogy is. I might always get those wrong way round. But we need to ensure that we're we're setting children, young people up for success and not failure.
00:18:40
Speaker
So it means that when children go home, that that They're able, yes, of course, they're able to express that. It's really important that when children are they do feel safe. to However, it's not a meltdown because that's not fair.
00:18:54
Speaker
That means we needs haven't been met throughout the day. That means we haven't been inclusive. We haven't been accessible throughout the day. um And long-term modifications of that, I mean, if we continue down this road, we are talking about then complex mental health.
00:19:08
Speaker
Yeah. Thinking about the value and how you feel about yourself and is so important a child growing up. And we want every child to feel that they can go in and succeed and do whatever they can possibly do and be the best version of themselves.
00:19:22
Speaker
But if we are have an education system that we've got at the moment, and we're not putting the child at the center of that, and we're not thinking about the different levels of support, and sometimes even just the different expectations or the different routes, the same destination, then we're not setting children up and young adults up for successful adulthood.
00:19:45
Speaker
and therefore we're creating system which is set to fail and sometimes I hear this awful analogy of people saying well if we lower demands and if we lower expectations we're going to have a society where there's no rules etc it's not a about lowering expectations it's about yes having clear rules we know it's what neurodivergent you and actually they like the predictability they like to know what's right and wrong but it's about making it accessible and inclusive so that that they can be successful in later on in life.
00:20:17
Speaker
And think for the impact then as well, and if we've got children that the system works for, which let's be honest, that's good education, isn't it? That's what we should be taking, that's education. But if we think about them, they had the other ramifications for children young people in terms of their mental health, next steps, et cetera, ambitions, if we get that right, we're supporting families friends, siblings, because we think the impact that not meeting these has on one individual.
00:20:49
Speaker
Parents don't sleep all night, as lots of your parents will report, don't they, like parents who don't sleep all night, parents who sit up with that gut, that worry, that dread, what tomorrow's going hold or what's going on tonight.
00:21:01
Speaker
So, yes, that's where inclusion really sits the heart. We've got to get this right, and it can't just be. i think we're all here these incentives every over and over again. can't be the incentive.
00:21:13
Speaker
No, no, no. It's got to come at it a different way, isn't it? So if you could change just one thing about how schools think about accessibility, what would it be?
Training and Strategies for Accessibility
00:21:24
Speaker
And how might that transform the experience of neurodivergent children?
00:21:29
Speaker
I think, well, first of all, I am in staff. I come from an education background myself. I'm a similar ta And is a question I feel strongly about. and Because, I'm specifically, this is not about I'm going to cover it in the vast, vast majority of cases.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah. That big lack of care from teachers. People go into teaching because they can. And every week I meet teachers that go home, they do worry about their children in their class. And they spend evening, open evening, adapting resources, talks to colleagues, reading guidance.
00:22:03
Speaker
they want to make things better so I don't want a couple of things I've said I thought oh I don't want this to make it sound like I'm having a oh no to get school and I I yeah I've worked in education i've worked in all the academy trust like those and nobody caveat 99% of people don't enjoy education because they don't care so it really is thinking about the training that we're offering support staff yeah and thinking about, right, two children with exactly the diagnosis can be completely different.
00:22:35
Speaker
yeah um And therefore, what underpins this and what Access Hub does really well is thinks about, right, what do we need for pupils? And therefore, how can we put this in place in order to make it accessible? And that's where working with PDA Society, you've got all these amazing resources, the training package, everything else. And the Access Hub's really, and hopefully,
00:22:58
Speaker
underpinning that so with almost then the constant person in their pocket so to sleep um so i would encourage anybody to look through well look through access hub i'm here i'm gonna have it we are access hub um so look through access hub and think about right what are the meaningful strategies knowing the child what the meaningful strategies i can put in place and then although this school package if schools have got it a bit great to be there that we should be through feeding through on people's plans for parents to use at home so thinking about visual timetables thinking about things like checklists for example think about language and the use of language think about how we develop confidence thinking about what seating what adaptable seating have we got thinking about the work and the way it's
00:23:51
Speaker
displayed and demonstrated the child, thinking about what's around the room in terms of on the walls, thinking about the demand that's firing off those working walls, for example. So I'd say the first thing of people really need to think about that environment and really think about is accessible?
00:24:06
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. Just touching that word culture. it is so important and it sounds cliche, but that it's so tough for schools, particularly in leadership, the amount of challenges they face. And it's this offset versus compliance. Accessibility as a whole tends to fall within the remit of compliance.
00:24:28
Speaker
and And we do fall into this this idea of it being bottomed out with ah with a policy that has a date updated every once or every three years. And it's a checklist that we work through.
00:24:39
Speaker
And one of the biggest things that werere we're trying to change, really, is to provide schools with tools to try and embed this as part of the culture. And just take a step back, really. Be thoughtful and be be curious about what's going on within each individual child's life.
00:24:54
Speaker
It's been really interesting. We've... with've We ran a couple of cohorts for our Access Champions training earlier this year. Colleagues Jane and and Kate led on with their Becky at Access.
00:25:07
Speaker
and Feedback been brilliant. and and One of the most common themes that we got but got back from that was around just This has given us space to reflect and think and really consider the needs of broader pupils, but also specific pupils that came to mind within their school. And again, it's not a case that teachers and staff aren't wanting to do the right thing.
00:25:30
Speaker
They can just be a bit manic and not have the time to look at or also not know where to start. And I think that's one of the biggest things, well, the biggest thing I'd want to change is just, it's the shift away from compliance to culture, which is massive,
00:25:43
Speaker
But it starts by doing small things every day, and that's what we're trying to help people do. Absolutely. and we think about education as well. Education's always been quite traditional, hasn't it, in terms of routines, clear expectations.
00:25:56
Speaker
But that flexibility, as Pat, you've touched on that, like culture, and knowing that flexibility around relationships is so important. I know I'm saying like we're going around circles here because we're saying one minute we need predictability and the next minute saying need flexibility, but it's the flexibility for teaching staff.
00:26:12
Speaker
And to to have that autonomy to say, actually, this is what this child needs at this moment in time. And I think that's that cultural element, isn't it? Yes. As teachers, I mean, me and you, Rachel, you talk, aren't you, about routines and expectation that actually go into traditional value.
00:26:32
Speaker
And actually, some staff has said to me before, well, it's always quietly, and it wasn't invested you, but this is what actually, if I make that adjustment for that child then this child will want it well actually we need to look at a whole classroom and think right if we are making change to a whole classroom then brilliant we are thinking about our walls and how what the demand is coming off them aren't we just helping all children and yeah Exactly. And yeah, it's meeting the needs of the children, isn't it? That's the key bit. You probably answered the next question already about what inspired you to create Access Hub and what gap were you looking to fill?
Introduction to Access Hub
00:27:15
Speaker
For me, the collaboration. We've dealt with so many people over the past couple years where I've been shaping this.
00:27:22
Speaker
across kind of professional networks. you know, we've we've got some great guys at Farabandth of Architects we're working with, sensory providers, Osborne, legal specialists, SENCOs, educational practice.
00:27:33
Speaker
But there's just this common theme coming back around people care, they just not know where to start. yeah And it's clear that there are There's a kind ofistic set distinct end the spectrum where sport's available.
00:27:45
Speaker
In terms of looking at accessibility specifically for schools to improve, you've kind of got your free checklist, templates, that is good luck, off you go. and And then you have the other extreme where you've kind of got, let's say, engage your consultant, that'd be an access consultant, of which we have members of the team.
00:28:03
Speaker
um But it's it's a hefty fee and it's kind of one to you rather than with you. So that sense of ownership is missing and that learning as a result and and the tailored to your environment and pupils needs is also missing.
00:28:16
Speaker
So what we wanted to do was just try and fill that void. And that that's what hopefully we believe we've done where we've developed this tool. It's kind of like a whole school approach. which he kind of he works through as a checklist but crucially helps identify those barriers and provides solutions for those barriers that you can implement so the big thing was trying to bridge that gap really between on your own to a very expensive solution absolutely and it is that it's that making sure the children can flourish isn't it we want children to really really flourish and we in order to get there think
00:28:53
Speaker
we we have to change that that mindset. And also, teachers feel like they're failing as well as common thing I'm coming across because they want their children to flourish and they feel like they're not. So, if we're changing this culture with what we' we're all doing, then I'm hoping that one day, i am hopeful that I'm going to going into schools, education provisions, whatever that education looks like, or that environment, that learning environment looks like for that child.
00:29:21
Speaker
One, I'm hoping... We're not just going to trying shiver everybody in a classroom, sit down at a desk. That's not, we know that's not working because that's about children. But I'm really hoping we're going to see a shift in this conversation.
00:29:33
Speaker
So that the first thing a school say is not, here's what's gone wrong today for your child. But instead it's, help us to understand your child.
00:29:46
Speaker
Or the one on cosmetine, well, In order for art to improve, they need to do X, Y, and Z. And actually, language should be something like, well, tell us what life feels like from your child's perspective. That's how that lesson feels from the child's perspective.
00:30:03
Speaker
And I think with all of this, if we can get that culture and that cultural change, it immediately changes that relationship from one of judgment to one of partnerships.
00:30:14
Speaker
Definitely, definitely. And it's about it's, yeah, because it's not so much about, but for a PDA child, they can't change. So it's what, it's rather than for them some to improve, they need to do this YZ. No, it's it's got to be flipped the other way, isn't it? It's actually, we as teachers need to be doing X, Y, Z, and to enable them to engage in that learning. Because for the PDA child, it's it's definitely a can't, it's not a won't, isn't it?
00:30:38
Speaker
Absolutely, yeah. And if we can get that right, then through the use of, of access open all the work you do at peace society i am hopeful that we just we will see them yeah the mental health teachers training parents being at the end of the tether but then hopefully we are going to be seeing fewer exclusions fewer emotionally based school avoidance cases fewer conflicts as well it's exhausting for families to be in conflict with schools Yeah, yeah. Hopefully, goodby actors who if schools have access in place, they can be using it to support change that culture, but to work with parents as well.
00:31:16
Speaker
And hopefully showing parents on access of, look, this is all the great things we do. We all child sat at the centre of it. that's that's like That's kind of what we're hoping for, isn't it, Rachel? but it is It is. It's working in partnership. Because as a parent of a BDA, as well as a teacher, you know, I can't emphasise how much it is, it how important it is that, you know, i communication with my sons, my PDA as teacher is really, really good. And we, you know, we communicate every day and give each other the heads up going, OK, right, anxiety is really high. You might need to alter this type thing, you know. So, yeah, it's so important.
00:31:50
Speaker
So if we talk a bit more about Access Hub then, for those people that haven't come across it then, what is the Access Hub and how does it help parents, teachers or other professionals find appropriate reasonable adjustments for individual children?
Functionality and Impact of Access Hub
00:32:05
Speaker
We say for people who haven't heard of it, there'll be ah most people that won't have heard of it because we' kind of we've we've we've been developing this for the past couple of years and we're literally just just rolling it out. So what is it? It's an online platform that we developed with a specific focus on accessibility.
00:32:20
Speaker
It aligns perfectly with recent CEN reforms, government white paper, revised offset framework and and to be honest about 70 other technical and legal standards. So what what we've done, we've we've shaped it over the past two years with a wealth of experts to basically produce um a really simple tool that that busy all schools, but particularly mainstream schools, can dive in and out of and use to improve and their leadership, curriculum, information and physical environment as well with a lot on ah on ah on a low cost budget. So again, we shaped it for busy schools and the practicalities of their budgets.
00:32:58
Speaker
the The tool itself is built around a but continuous improvement model. So assess, plan, do, review. So you've got the assess part, which is and the audits. So the four key areas that I mentioned, you've got the ability to work through really detailed audits.
00:33:14
Speaker
And within that, with the plan element is that we have the ability to add recommendations throughout these audits. So within the platform, there's about 2,000 to 3,000 expert recommendations that schools can just take that immediately help answer those questions that they're struggling with.
00:33:31
Speaker
So I think working through a yeah a simple yes is a yes, but if there's no or a partial the to a question, right, what do we do? Click here, here's some guidance. And they're all costed also. So within that, we can see if something's a quick win, if it's low cost, or we've kind of got a price scale that takes it from low cost, no cost, up to capex expenditure, plus. So, you know, we need to revamp our entrance because it's not fit for purpose. So we've got that.
00:33:59
Speaker
The do part these simple task management stuff. So the recommendations that are in the platform, we can then build into a task management system, which isn't for an individual, it's actually for the broader team.
00:34:11
Speaker
So across leadership, estates, inclusion, down to TAs who want to be involved. everybody can input and work through these actions to to obviously improve all of these areas. And then the review part is that all of this data which we're capturing, which is pretty unique because as far as we're aware, there's not much out there that's doing this.
00:34:31
Speaker
that data then can be used to single click, produce your accessibility plan, but also produce evidence for EHCPs or funding applications or various other things. So he's kind of it really is a comprehensive tool.
00:34:48
Speaker
And Kate mentioned it earlier. and We've had other trial users say this. It's kind of like having a a consultant in your back pocket. That's where it is really. You work through an audit, you're not sure what to do.
00:34:59
Speaker
the tool just prompts on where to go. Yeah. I would say in a nutshell, I've just waffled on there for about five minutes. what it's upgrade it's its And it's it is with this specific focus around accessibility.
00:35:16
Speaker
A couple of other points, just really brief. An important point is that we're not just catering this for pupils. So when we're looking at accessibility, we're looking at it as a whole and the broader school community.
00:35:27
Speaker
So everything that impacts staff with additional needs or other disabilities, parents, carers, visitors, etc. So we're we're also catering for that, which is ah which is a a really important point.
00:35:41
Speaker
And this is where I think at parents as well. It's really important for for everybody that's involved with their school that everybody has be adjustments made.
00:35:52
Speaker
My different roles in education have seen... I've been out to lots different perspectives and what keep seeing the same thing. And what was coming through that one thing's kept going around in my head when I was out and I'd be in a consultancy role for the day or a week.
00:36:11
Speaker
be thinking, why are we making this so complicated? and We've got a child here who's screaming out for help. Why earth are we just, why are we making it so complicated? And then you'd have staff, everybody cared.
00:36:26
Speaker
Everybody was busy. Everybody wanted the child to succeed when you asked them and sat them around the table. Everybody wanted the same thing. And people would say, well, I've read this, this and this.
00:36:39
Speaker
But it was about bringing it all together. And it seemed to be, the frustration is that seems to be as a step to what we then do is we have childhood shouting out.
00:36:50
Speaker
We're trying to make things really complicated. We've got everybody wanting the best. And then we're having to spend huge amounts of money on pulling in professionals that wouldn't normally be brought in at that stage because actually we're not, we haven't got the correct environment for the child in the first place.
00:37:07
Speaker
So if we can arm everybody, because the research is out there and think about how far we've come in 20 years when we think about neurodivergent, all the research is out there. We've got all these policies out there, but sometimes there are so, so many things that we've got parents who spend hours online researching And then coming across information that sometimes is helpful. Yeah, but sometimes it's also really dangerous.
00:37:31
Speaker
yeah And really dangerous for their own mental health. And we've got at people searching for hours, what teachers reading endless documents, schools reinventing systems. But is this, I think, access to what science means is bringing about everything together in that puzzle.
00:37:48
Speaker
And hopefully, if we can be that that centre, that That simple idea. Yeah. It's that. Yeah. yeah we that in they We that center. Then basically the information is there. And then what we can do is spend time putting the child at the center and then thinking, okay, access, how can that support that child, that individual, also the parents and anybody else that's neurodiverse or anybody else with explicit that requires accessibility arrangements to access that provision. So I will start ranting now.
00:38:18
Speaker
But that's where I'm hoping. I'm hoping we're on a cruise stay, don't we, Pat? We are going to change the sculpture. I think it's tough. You know, I'm i'm new to the sector. and My background, i I've been in accessibility and like accessible construction for past decade. I've managed and owned businesses doing that. But I'm new to the sector. But even just in recent months,
00:38:38
Speaker
you know, seeing that the white papers having a huge impact and people are really considering that and un rightly so. Last week we had the inclusive estates guide from DfE. You know, we've got the the mainstream funding stuff around around some reform and the seven principles and yeah, it just goes on and on. And you know, this is It's very fragmented. It's really, really difficult. And then that's cascaded down at regional level to LAs. And then LAs will interpret it in their own way and then roll stuff out. And it's just it's really tough. And I think that what we're trying to do with AccessOn, all of that stuff that I've mentioned is aligned within the platform.
00:39:18
Speaker
And we ensure that schools are adhering to relevant regs, etc. But it's built more broadly on universal principles around accessibility that are far less likely to change and we're just aligning it to that rather. So it's just, we've we've simplified it. we we're what The whole point is we're trying to make accessibility simple for schools.
00:39:39
Speaker
There's so much out there that's overwhelming and we're trying to just help schools work through it piecemeal because it's it's really, really tough for them. Amazing. Brilliant. OK, so to finish off today, then, if you if you're looking ahead, what would success look like for you? If the access hub achieves everything that you hope it will, how might the education experience of neurodivergent children change over the next five years?
00:40:05
Speaker
So it's not any, we're not at the behind this. We're not some kind of like corporate people who are, you know, financially, we've got these specific goals or anything around that.
00:40:17
Speaker
but we are purpose driven. We've got a small team that really, really care. And everyone says that and everyone has kind of values put on the website and they can be meaning as not always, but we've got purpose behind a business is to make everybody welcome.
00:40:32
Speaker
That's, and that's what we see success that for me. So I know that's very difficult to kind of make tangible because what does that mean? Does that make every school, every person, but the goal that we are working to is a vision is is the the sector having a better grip on accessibility,
00:40:47
Speaker
and and working through, hopefully with use of our platform, to remove barriers and and just make everybody welcome. And again, back to that point when we use the word everybody, that is pupils, parents, carers, teachers.
00:41:02
Speaker
I would like to see really reflect on what inclusion means for that individual child. um And Access Hub allows that. It allows that bridge.
00:41:16
Speaker
So... This isn't about, we don't need more reports for children. Of course, they have their purpose. They do, I have to say, they do. yeah However, we don't need endless reports.
00:41:29
Speaker
What we need is, we need practical, research-based information that the staff, professionals, parents can have in their head or can access, for example, via access to them.
00:41:44
Speaker
And they can have that confidence to say, what could I try differently tomorrow? Not, how are we making this child fit into this education system?
00:41:57
Speaker
Because if we carry on like that, we're going to end up with generations that are missed. And we're end up with very tired, exhausted parents that are on their knees that is going to lead to their own mental health as well and their own changes. So we really, really do need, we need that drive and hopefully Access Hub can bring everything together um and make it an accessible platform. There we go, I like that, Pat. It's accessible for everybody. Yeah, absolutely.
00:42:30
Speaker
ah yeah Fingers crossed, Rachel. And then what we can do then is with PDA Society, you've got all your fantastic resources. Hopefully us all working together means that we will see that change.
Conclusion and Future of Access Hub
00:42:41
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. And that's what we're working towards, isn't it? It's healthy supporting those those individuals that find the current system. It's just too difficult for them. But, oh, that's brilliant. Thank you both. It sounds a really, really exciting platform. I've had a look and it it looks great. So we'll put the link to the platform in the show notes for everybody. But I just want to say thank you both for joining me today. I think it's really been informative. for teachers, but also for parents just to know that, you know, because a lot of teachers won't know where to look. Parents can help guide the teachers, you know, go and have a look at this, et cetera, et cetera. So that's that's brilliant. Thank you very much both for joining me today. Thanks for having us. Thank you very much. Thanks for having us. Thank you. And thank you for our listeners for tuning in. And we'll see you next time. Thank you.