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SEND law and your child's education
1 Playsin 1 day
In this episode we're chatting to Laxmi Patel, specialist SEND lawyer and partner at Boyes Turner, about your rights when it comes to SEND law. She takes us from the very start of the journey through to EHCPs, appeals, and tribunal.
For information and guidance about your circumstances, you can get in touch with our support service through our website.
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Transcript
Introduction to PDA Life Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to PDA Life, the podcast brought to you by the PDA Society, where we'll be exploring the highs and lows of pathological demand avoidance. I'm Rachel. And I'm Sarah, and we're your hosts.
00:00:14
Speaker
As the UK's only PDA charity, we're bringing together PDAers, carers, clinicians and researchers to answer the questions which matter to you most.
Understanding SEND Law with Expert Guest
00:00:24
Speaker
Hi everybody, I'm Sarah. I'm your host from the PDA Society and today we are going to be discussing Send Law. I'm delighted to be joined by Lakshmi Patel who is Head of the Education Team and Partner at Boyce Turner Legal Firm in Reading down south. um Laxmi is an expert in special educational needs and she works with parents, schools, local authorities and case managers to really ensure that so children with special educational needs and disabilities, they receive the support that they need in order to achieve their potential in education. So welcome Laxmi, it's brilliant to have you here today. Thank you so much.
00:01:03
Speaker
Thank you Sarah, pleasure to be here.
Beginning the SEND Journey: Advice for Parents
00:01:06
Speaker
Thank you. So I guess the first question for me really, or a good starting point, would be for parents who are perhaps at the very start of their journey, perhaps they're suspecting that their child may have additional needs, what would be a good starting point for them um at at the start of this journey?
00:01:24
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think we talked about it, didn't we, Sarah? it It can be a minefield, can't it, that all the information out there. And it's for parents, it's really tricky to know where to to go and where to trust, you know, the advice that's out there. um As a lawyer and approaching this as a lawyer. I would say it's always good for parents to know what the law says and and so that they understand what they are entitled support wise from the local authority, from schools, etc. And I always say a good point to start is the SEND code of practice. It is a lengthy document, but it sets out in very easy to read and understandable language, which is not legalistic, but it sets out the journey from perhaps initially
00:02:11
Speaker
Sort of finding out that your child is having difficulties with their education early years and going through primary school, secondary school and even you know higher up further education. But sets out what to do at school, what advice you should be expecting, what support you should be expecting to receive at school, etc.
Navigating EHCPs: Process and Requirements
00:02:28
Speaker
And it just goes to the whole journey of EHCPs, you know, and further on. So that's something and you can dip in and out of it, parents can. But also, sometimes I think it'd be really helpful for parents to perhaps book an hour with someone, you know, who is a specialist in this area, so that they've got that hour to ask all the questions that they can think of. You know, it may be something in particular, it might be understanding the whole journey, you know, and and there are SEND advocates out there. Perhaps other parents might be able to direct parents to, you know, who might be a good one to go to. There are also specialist SEND lawyers like myself as well.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah. And if parents did want to find a copy of the SEND Code of Practice, where could they find that? Just put it into Google and you can download it. Lovely. Great.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah. And I'll add a link to that as well in the show notes as well at the end for our listeners. OK, so we've spoken a little bit about the start of the journey and most parents, you know, they immediately hear the word sort of EHCP, education, health care plan. um How should parents know whether or not their child should have an EHCP or whether or not they can manage without one?
00:03:39
Speaker
OK, I mean, an EHCP is never the first port of call. um Parents should be working alongside the school SENCO and they should be putting in place provision, reviewing it. This is the assess, plan, do, review cycle. So where if there are concerns, parents should be having that meeting with this class teacher, bring in the school SENCO and a plan should be put in place to support that you know your child.
00:04:06
Speaker
And it should be something that's in discussion with parents. And whatever support it's decided is needed, that should be delivered and then reviewed regularly. So perhaps half termly, perhaps termly. And then, you know, whatever support is needed, perhaps it needs to be increased or different sort of emphasis put on something or try something different if it's not working. School can also bring in external specialists as well. Perhaps, you know, perhaps an educational psychologist is needed to advise. um There might be, you know autism outreach in the borough that parents can you know tap into as well and schools can tap into. But it's not the first port of call. But essentially, if that cycle of assess, plan, do, review has been trialled over several terms, perhaps, or, you know, whatever the issues are, but over a period of time, and that's not working or it's not working fast enough,
00:05:00
Speaker
perhaps, or there are other issues which even the school parents, nobody understands what the issues are, then that is a signal that we need to have ah ah a more holistic assessment.
00:05:13
Speaker
um And that's when the school and parents should be having talks about perhaps requesting an EHC needs assessment from the local community. Right. Yeah, absolutely. So I think that's really useful advice. it has It's not the first port of call. There has to have been other things trialled, first of all, with the school. um So can a school refuse to support my child because they don't have an official diagnosis? Particularly in the world of PDA, it can be quite problematic to get a diagnosis. And certainly I know that the local authority where I currently live, there's a three year waiting list for an autism assessment. So, you know, can schools refuse if you don't have a formal diagnosis?
00:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's not. It's not a formal diagnosis that's needed. right because the child still presents with those difficulties with or without a diagnosis. That's just putting a label on it. i mean, the diagnosis perhaps might help some people understand a little easier and parents don't have to explain it all. you know But in essence, the child is having difficulties and we need to support the child with you know whatever difficulties they're facing. So yes, a diagnosis is not essential.
00:06:18
Speaker
OK, so it should be based on need and not diagnosis. OK, that's great. So if we've gone through that initial phase with the school, the plan, do review, and it's decided that perhaps an EHC plan is required, what is maybe the biggest mistake parents make when applying for an EHCP?
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, well, the first thing is parents can apply or the school can apply. All right. And I think in the majority of cases, schools will make the application for parents. But sometimes for whatever reason, the school's reluctant to do so or perhaps too busy or delayed, etc. And parents want to crack on with it. And parents can do it themselves. What I would say is that I think caution. um in terms of the timings, because there does need to be some evidence to show. And the evidence to show is that the school has been putting provision in place and has been trying to address the difficulties. And the first thing that the local authority will want to see after that request has been put in is this is to see what the school has been doing.
00:07:19
Speaker
So they will want to see from the school a record of what support they've been putting in place over a period of time that they've been assessing it, they've been putting it in place, assessing it, ah perhaps you know tweaking it slightly, changing it slightly, but that they have made an effort to try and meet this child's needs.
00:07:37
Speaker
And really, they've done everything that they can. So really, I would say mistakes wise, it's making sure that a conversation is being had with the school and the school has been documenting this so that when the local authority writes to them, they can pass it over.
00:07:52
Speaker
And what sort of things might that evidence look like?
Appealing EHCP Decisions and School Responsibilities
00:07:55
Speaker
Examples of lesson plans or reasonable adjustments that have been put in place? So it's adjustments, but also it's um provision above what they would normally provide their you know their other children. So, for example, if they are having to go through things overlearn, if they're having to allocate a one to one or you know put them and put your child in small class sizes, more often than not perhaps, um whether they're having to take your child out of class and deliver some other sort of provision, whether there needs to be some sort of breakout time and the child needs to be outside sort of letting off steam perhaps in the playground or, you know, some activities. Whatever the support is being provided, all of that needs to be documented. And sometimes I think perhaps schools are not aware
00:08:42
Speaker
of actually the amount of support that they are providing because they just do it but they don't document it so it's about the documentation because actually i think perhaps parents and schools will be surprised at how much support is being delivered and how much thought is being put into that but but perhaps it's not being documented and when it all you know it all adds up though so it's really documenting all of that support And from the moment that it's decided an EHC plan would be beneficial, I mean, I guess there's no standard answer to this question, and but how long should the EHCP process take?
00:09:18
Speaker
Okay, well, the first part of it is when you're looking at requesting an EHC needs assessment, you are just asking for an assessment. So we mustn't we mustn't jump to we're asking for a plan necessarily. We're asking for an assessment first. And that's because we need to understand more about what the child's difficulties are.
00:09:38
Speaker
right That's the first thing. So it doesn't necessarily lead to a plan. So the first thing is, is is an assessment required? let's Let's say that that's addressed and and the answer is yes, an assessment. So then they will do the assessment. The local authority will commission an educational psychologist and other professionals.
00:09:57
Speaker
They do have to seek social care advice. They do have to seek medical advice and advice from from parents and the school as well. So all of those people's input. They may also get some speech and language, perhaps occupational therapy input as well and other professionals.
00:10:13
Speaker
And at the end of that process, once they've collated all those reports, they have to then decide, this is the local authority, has to decide whether they're going to issue an EHCP, whether all the advice they've collated points to the need for provision which they believe cannot be provided by the school with their own resources.
00:10:33
Speaker
um And if that goes through, then they will send out a draft EHCP and eventually um a final plan. Now, that whole process from beginning to end is supposed to take no longer than 20 weeks.
00:10:48
Speaker
So starting off with a request for an EHC needs assessment and ending with a final plan. right But there are a couple of key decision points in that process. First one being, are we going to carry out an EHC needs assessment in the first place?
00:11:04
Speaker
The second decision being, once we've done the assessment, are we going to issue a plan? And if all of those are yes, then at the end, 20 weeks, you should have a final EHCP.
00:11:15
Speaker
Okay, lovely. And what can parents and carers do if the local authority refuses to carry out a needs assessment? ah If they refuse, parents have to appeal if they want to challenge that. all right And that decision comes within the first six weeks.
00:11:31
Speaker
So the first six weeks, parents put in or the school puts in the application. The local authority will explore that. um They may well write to the school to ask for, that this is where I said about the record keeping, to see, they will want to see what provision they've been putting in place.
00:11:47
Speaker
Because as I said, it's not the first port of call. If the school hasn't been doing anything, they'll simply send it back and say, you need to start doing something here. All right, so that's the first, that's the six weeks. And that's when parents will get told, we'll have a right of appeal to the SEND tribunal if that decision goes against them.
00:12:04
Speaker
And presumably the way that they ah appeal, that will all be documented by the local authority. There'll be a formal process for them to follow. There is. And there's ah there's a a letter that comes out. It's a formal letter and that gives parents the right of appeal with some links as to where they go to, the forms that they must complete. It will also set out mediation as well, which parents have to consider when they're appealing.
00:12:27
Speaker
And there's a deadline as well. Two months from the date of that letter is when parents must contact mediation. And parents don't actually have to go through mediation. There will be it's an external mediator with someone from the local authority attending and parents. um Parents don't have to go through mediation if they feel that it's not going to amount to anything. They don't have to. They can simply call the mediator and ask for a mediation certificate and they need to have that certificate when they're appealing.
00:13:00
Speaker
Alternatively, parents might decide actually they want to sit down with someone from the local authority and a mediator and to discuss, you know, reasons why it's been refused. Parents may have any new evidence, perhaps, you know, which they want to share with the local authority to get them perhaps to to review it. But parents can go to mediation as well. And if they request that, then um four weeks are given to try and arrange that meeting.
00:13:24
Speaker
with someone from the local authority. Sometimes that's not possible and if that's not possible, a mediation certificate will be issued at the end of that four weeks, but otherwise mediation happens and a certificate's issued at the end of it and then the appeal deadline is a month from the date of that mediation certificate.
00:13:44
Speaker
alright So yeah yeah, there is sort of two two or three months sort of two to lodge the appeal, but that deadline mustn't really be missed. okay Thank you. So what happens if the EHCP that's finalised an issue doesn't actually reflect what the parents or, you know, what doesn't actually reflect what the child actually needs? So there may be some things in there that the parents feel would actually make things worse or be not helpful or not appropriate for their child. um How do you go about sort of managing that?
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah. i mean, generally, local authorities will draft EHCPs with the evidence that they've, you know, reports that they've collated as part of the EHC needs assessment. So usually, i would say, yeah i mean, its it's it's unusual for something to be put in which local authorities have just made up. It's come from a professional who's, who's hopefully, that they have seen your child and assessed properly. it's a professional recommendation, generally. But there are things that sometimes, you know, parents will not agree with. and And often parents will also have their own reports that they will share with the local authority and local authorities will then take a view as to which you know reports and expert evidence they're going to consider. So there will be some disagreement about perhaps the level of provision, etc.
00:15:03
Speaker
And in that case, if parents aren't happy with it, but we're back down to an appeal situation where they can consider mediation, have to try mediation perhaps, um you know discuss it with the local authority. um And if not, we're looking at an appeal to the centre I'm here.
00:15:21
Speaker
Okay. So that final EHCP document is legally binding and therefore the school are obliged to provide the provision that's been written into it. What can parents do if the school says that they don't simply have the resources to be able to support that child based on the EHC plan?
00:15:37
Speaker
oh Well, um first of all, when that plan's finalised, it names a placement. Before it's finalised, parents will have the opportunity to put forward the placement that they want, right? So the local authority will have consulted with that school. They will also consult with any other schools that they feel are appropriate and they will Finally, name a placement. By naming that placement, the local authority is saying that we believe that school can meet this child's needs.
00:16:06
Speaker
So, i.e. everything we've set up provision-wise, we believe that the school should be able to meet needs. Now, if parents find that actually there's a problem with delivery,
00:16:16
Speaker
of provision that's in the plan. um I think the first port of call is for them to discuss it with the school CENCO, first of all. Sit down with the EHCP. Make sure also parents should make sure that that EHCP is drafted so succinctly and very clearly, provision wise, that anyone picking it up, you know, there's no ambiguity in there. It's very clear you know, who is to provide what. That's the first thing, I think.
00:16:42
Speaker
And then perhaps to have that meeting with the set school SEMCO, with the EHCP, to point out everything that they believe should be delivered. And if there are any discrepancies to discuss that and why that might be.
00:16:56
Speaker
Now, I would say, give the school a chance to put it right. But it is an absolute duty on the local authority to make that provision, so to deliver whatever provision is set out in Section F of the EHCP.
00:17:13
Speaker
If um parents have been reasonable, discussed it with the school and it's still not going anywhere and there are you know too much of a delay in in delivery of provision, um I would say that parents have that discussion with the local authority.
00:17:26
Speaker
because ultimately it's the local authority who's responsible for that EHCP. Not the school itself, it's actually the local authority's responsibility. So I would then expect the local authority to have a conversation with the school.
00:17:40
Speaker
And if there's a funding discrepancy or issue, then really it's something for the school to discuss with the local authority. It's not really something for parents to get involved in, right? Parents simply are there to point out if something's not being delivered.
00:17:56
Speaker
Yeah, that's really helpful. Thank you. um When it comes to pathological demand avoidance, we did some research at the
Managing EBSA and School Placement Concerns
00:18:03
Speaker
PDA Society. It was in 2018. And we found that 70% of PDA children are either not in school or regularly struggle to attend. So that emotionally based school avoidance is really, really very high in the PDA community. um How should schools deal with EBSA? Hmm.
00:18:23
Speaker
Well, it's again, it's that sensible approach of actually having discussions with parents, find out what's going on, what might help, what might not help, what strategies might help, et cetera.
00:18:35
Speaker
They may need to pull in external advice if they don't have the resources to deal with it themselves. um But, you know, each child's different, each circumstance set of circumstances is different.
00:18:47
Speaker
I know that some schools, for example, um you know, may have to have a member of staff at the school gate and you may have to sort of look at the timings of when that child is starting school, you know, perhaps earlier, perhaps later when there are not so many others around. But it's it's working with parents at the school to try and work out what might help this particular child. If external resources are needed, you know, perhaps you need to get in someone from maybe maybe an educational psychologist or someone else to advise and assist. um
00:19:23
Speaker
But there's no hard and fast, you know, this is the way to do it. it's It's each child is different, but it's using resources and the knowledge base out there to try and work with the family and the child can have ah you know to see how we can sort of get the child into school.
00:19:38
Speaker
And it might be that for a short period, you're looking at perhaps ah shorter hours or or sending work home. But whatever works for the child, you know, mental health, and you know, that that is so important. And we see so much of it now as well. They're not going to engage with their learning if emotionally, mentally, they're not secure. um So, you know, that that takes over.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah. um And, you know, I know that for parents that is so difficult because you're sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. You desperately want your child to go to school and get an education. But then equally knowing that, you know, if you're potentially dragging them there or whatever, it could potentially be causing some trauma in the future. So it is really, really difficult. But I guess what I'm hearing really, it's about having that open dialogue with the school, keeping the communication channels open and really trying to work through this together. So that's that's very helpful. Thank you.
00:20:32
Speaker
What might be some of the signs that a placement is no longer meeting a child's needs? In a way, it's it's part of what we've just discussed now, you know, school avoidance, don't want to go into school. Sometimes the school won't be seeing things happening in school, but it happens when the child gets home.
00:20:49
Speaker
um And there may be all sorts of things, you know, can't sleep, don't want to go into school, bedwetting, for example. The stress just before stopping school again on on the Sunday or after holidays, e etc. All that kind of thing. But also just just behavioural issues at school. You know, school will highlight things that are going on as well. a Child not progressing.
00:21:11
Speaker
regressing perhaps, all those sorts of things point to this placements not working, progress not being made, just generally child being very unhappy as well. But those sorts of things, I think, you know, it doesn't happen suddenly. It's it's usually there's a journey. um And again, it's it's those communication channels, keeping that conversation going with the school, SENCO, to see what support might be being put in place and and trying to offer support early on rather than sort of leaving it to it suddenly becomes where they're just not going into school at all. Yeah. you know yeah of course now i know i appreciate that's easier said than done of course it's it's it's those conversations and trying to put support in place however which way you know taking advice from the professionals as well um one of the questions we're often and asked on our support services is do we have a list of schools that are suitable for pda children and our answer is always no we don't because every child is individual and every child's different um some pda's do really well in mainstream others need specialist provision or eotas and But can parents choose which school is named on an EHCP?
00:22:19
Speaker
Parents will always get the opportunity to put forward a school that they consider to be suitable. So, yes, parents can do their own research. share EHCPs with the school, do the school search, etc. Always good for the school to meet with the child, you know, but parents can put forward schools, they can put forward, really any school that they want, I'm going to say, but whether it gets named by the local authority is another matter.
00:22:45
Speaker
So they can put forward independent schools as well, you know, if they've seen Perhaps a mainstream school with a very small class size, that might work for their child and that you're going to find in the independent sector. It might be a particular kind of special school, you know, specialism perhaps with PDA as well as part of their specialism.
00:23:04
Speaker
And sometimes those might be in the independent sector as well. They might be local authorities, they might be in neighbouring local authorities. But parents can do their research and put forward a school which they believe is appropriate to meet their child's needs. Local authority, when a school is put forward, does have to consult with the school of parental choice. But parents need to also be aware that they will also want to consult with their own schools as well, schools that they believe may be adequate to meet needs. And that's the test.
00:23:33
Speaker
The test, the legal test is, is the school adequate for to meet your child's needs. Okay. And adequate is not a terribly high standard. It's it's really, is it is it good enough? And that's that's that's what the local authority has to you know eventually name.
00:23:50
Speaker
And they do have to consider the costs as well. i mean, they won't name or they mustn't name a placement that cannot meet needs, obviously.
00:24:01
Speaker
They have to be satisfied that whatever school that they are putting forward can adequately meet your child's needs. But when you've got a parental choice of school,
00:24:12
Speaker
versus another school, what they will look at, number one, do both schools, can they both meet needs? And then they will look at the cost implications. okay and And generally, of course, they will go for the most cost effective school. As part of that, sometimes they will also look at the cost of transport as well.
00:24:30
Speaker
right And sometimes parents could get around it by saying, well, we we'll meet the cost of transport, perhaps, if if it sort of swings it one way or the other.
00:24:41
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and And if an independent school has been identified, i presume it's the local authority that pays the fees for that school. Yes. yeah So whatever school is named finally on a final EHCP, any provision also in an EHCP, the local authority is responsible for delivering that. okay So any school, if it's an independent school, um they will be responsible for meeting the school's fees.
00:25:07
Speaker
But to get an independent school named on a plan, essentially what What parents would have to show is that any school that the local authority is putting forward, parents would have to show that that school would not be able to meet their child's needs.
00:25:24
Speaker
So if they can successfully show that, then they would be able to have their own school named on that plan. Yeah, okay. So if things don't go according to plan and we end up with sort of appeals and disputes, are you able to just to give us a sort of ah a timeline or or talk us through what these a tribunal might look like in terms of the different
SEND Tribunal Appeals Process
00:25:47
Speaker
stages? Okay, so first thing is lodge your appeal. Now there's a form to complete.
00:25:53
Speaker
Parents can also submit other, you know, paperwork, evidence, etc. Put in your grounds of appeal, your reasons as to why you're appealing. All of that will go in your appeal gets registered, supposed to get registered within two weeks, and that registration document then sets out the other timings in the appeal.
00:26:12
Speaker
Appeals are supposed to run upma when I first started doing this, they used to be 16 weeks and you'd get a hearing and then in that, you know, you get a decision two weeks after that, so it was all over quite quickly.
00:26:26
Speaker
Just due to the volume of appeals going through now, we at that timetable has just just got longer and longer and longer. And now we are finding that actually they're taking probably around, um you could be looking at 15 to 18 months to get to a hearing at the moment. Now, the only exception to that is if it's a transition appeal.
00:26:49
Speaker
So by that, I mean a child who's transitioning from primary to secondary or starting school. If their appeal's not heard quickly, they're not going to have a school to go to.
00:27:00
Speaker
So, so or or a child who's out of school for whatever reason, the tribunal will prioritise those appeals. So you shouldn't have such a long wait. And the plan is for transition appeals. So those who are starting school in September, new schools, the plan is to have their hearings heard before the start of term. But but even then, we do have some that go over into September, October.
00:27:24
Speaker
let But yeah, generally they are quite lengthy. these these appeal timetables. But that's generally what happens and what will happen is that upon registration of the appeal, the local authority will get notified, there'll be a chance for the local authority to put their response in, and then both parties, parents and the local authority will have a further date to put all their further evidence in.
00:27:48
Speaker
And that will also set out all the changes that parents want made to the EHCP provision wise, but also if there's a particular school that they want, then it's setting out why the local authority school, they believe, would not be able to meet needs.
00:28:04
Speaker
And it's getting the evidence together for that. um And then essentially it's it's providing all the evidence and then going to a hearing, which will be an oral hearing in front of a tribunal judge and either one or two panel members.
00:28:20
Speaker
And the panel members won't be legally qualified, but they will have some sort of SEND experience. And that is generally it Now, some parents may also elect to have their case heard on the papers alone. So some parents may not you know want to go to an oral hearing, may want to just have it heard on the papers. So the the written evidence that's been submitted so far. So there's the option to do that as well. That is essentially it. It's putting all the evidence together, making sure that the legal tests and arguments have been made.
00:28:51
Speaker
so It's not about how good your school is, you know, for parents, you know, you found a school, it's not about how good that school is. Obviously, that school has to show that it can meet your child's needs.
00:29:03
Speaker
But it's about showing that the local authority school, if parents believe it can't meet needs, to show why it can't. Okay. I mean, that all sounds incredibly daunting to it to a layperson. is it Is it as daunting as it sounds for parents?
00:29:17
Speaker
Well, do you know, the SEND Tribunal is supposed to be a tribunal system which here is supposed to be, believe it or not, parent-friendly. So the vast majority of appeals are lodged by parents and they are running this themselves with with some advice, perhaps in the background. So the vast majority of the appeals are you know run by parents and they are doing everything themselves. It can get daunting, though.
00:29:44
Speaker
I mean, I would say that because as a solicitor, a SEND solicitor, that's when parents come to me. So I don't i don't pick up you know the ones which are running quite smoothly by themselves. and I suppose I would get the ones where there is a hard, perhaps, um fight, perhaps, with the local authority, where perhaps parents are seeking something which perhaps may be at a significant cost, where local authorities are going to take it all the way to a hearing. Is it daunting? It doesn't have to be, but I would say generally parents find that as it gets closer to a hearing, there's a lot of activity um and lots of emails back and forth, late evidence, et cetera. Lots of shenanigans going on, I would say. um And lots of panic, you know, with both parents suddenly inundated with lots of evidence and paperwork and, you know,
00:30:38
Speaker
having to liaise with the local authority, you know, and and sometimes that might be a bit difficult. So it's, it's, each appeal's different, but many parents do do it themselves.
00:30:49
Speaker
Wow, gosh. Yeah, that's good to know. Brilliant. Are there alternatives to going to tribunal though? Right. So alternatives, I would always say, you know, if, if you think it's something that can be mediated with the local authority, have a meeting with the local authority. go to that mediation and I would say if it's something fairly straightforward something just perhaps one or two issues and parents have got good evidence for it try mediation are there alternatives yes not everybody wants to appeal parents may decide I'm going to park it here I'm going to have a meeting with the school we're going to review it again at annual review because that EHCP will be reviewed annually if it's a younger child under five it's it'll be more often than that but it will be reviewed annually and parents might want to see how that provision goes, perhaps that's in the final plan and review it in a year.
Post-16 Rights and Educational Challenges
00:31:45
Speaker
But perhaps collate evidence, you know, document things in the meantime to show why something's not working, why they want something changed in the plan provision wise or perhaps the school and review it in a year. Parents can also ask for an interim or an emergency review meeting. They don't have to wait a year.
00:32:04
Speaker
right, if if, you know, things need need changing sooner than that, and they can ask for an interim review meeting as well, where where discussions can be had again. um Other things that perhaps parents might be able to do, perhaps a local government ombudsman complaint, you know, if but it generally that's if there's an issue with the local authority.
00:32:25
Speaker
So if the local authority is delaying on certain matters, etc., then that might be something that parents might want to sort go down that avenue. Generally, those are the other sorts of things that parents could do. But at some point, sometimes parents feel that they've tried everything, they can't take it any further, and it means enough to them to want to appeal to them. Okay, great. So if we think now about transition, so you mentioned that particularly the transition from primary to secondary school, If we think about the different sort of points in in a young person's life, we've got that transition from primary to secondary. and But what rights do young people have once they reach 16?
00:33:03
Speaker
Well, once they reach 16, they, provided they have capacity, they have ownership of that EHCP. Any decisions around that are down to the young person. We call them a young person now. At 16, they become a young person when you read the Code of Practice, et cetera. So they have the rights to appeal.
00:33:22
Speaker
if they're not happy about something. I mean, obviously, they will they can have assistance you know from their parents, but it's it's their right. It's what they want. So school choices, school placements, etc. It's down to them what they want. And capacity is assumed.
00:33:39
Speaker
So it is assumed that they will have capacity unless either party, local authority or parents should show otherwise. How does SEN support change when moving into college or into further education? My understanding, and it may be outdated, is that an EHC plan lasts until that the young person's 25? It can last until they're 25, but that doesn't mean all of them do.
00:34:02
Speaker
It can, which means that if your child or young person's learning outcomes haven't yet been met, so they're still learning to do and they're making progress, et etc., then it can go up to 25 years.
00:34:16
Speaker
But you have to show those things as well first, right? My experience is that it's all well and good going up to 25 years. and um And many parents, I think, and and young adults perhaps may think also that that that's your right, it will go up to 25. That's not necessarily the case. I find that the hardest thing for parents at that stage or young people is to find a placement that will take their child, a young person,
00:34:42
Speaker
beyond 1819 and provide that specialist input yeah that that for me is the the hardest part but yes it can go beyond 1819 but it's finding a placement now i find also with further education they're not as not always on top of everything when it comes to ehcps there may be some very good ones out there um But I find compared to schools who are more on board with the EHCPs and just understand how it's done, annual reviews, how they how they're supposed to be done, et cetera, understand the legal status of the EHCP, I find not all further education places understand that process. And some are better than others. So as parents, i would sort of say you have to keep on top of it and and have meetings with that college. to make sure they understand and are looking at this EHCP and i understand what what the duties are.
00:35:39
Speaker
Lovely. So I guess we've covered so much already and it's been incredibly helpful. Just a couple of questions to finish off with.
Support Options for Parents in SEND Advocacy
00:35:46
Speaker
What support is available if parents feel they cannot afford legal advice? There are but there are lots of SEM advocates who are not as expensive, perhaps, as you know lawyers who specialise in this area. There is Sendias as well, which local authorities will have, you know, Sendias, their own local Sendias who can help parents. I do know that they are incredibly busy most of the time. So it's just trying to get hold of. i mean, the whole area of Send, I think it's incredibly busy. So for parents often they will come to us and and they will say that they've tried lots of different places and everyone's busy.
00:36:23
Speaker
But it is worthwhile just just pursuing that. You just need that one person to to sort of pick up and say that they're going to help you. SOSEN, S-O-S-S-E-N, is a very good organisation out there who helps parents. National Autistic Society, I find, as well. They do have an education helpline as well. And they also have a tribunal. Last time I checked, they had a a tribunal helpline as well. So if parents are were in an appeal situation, they've got a different team of people to help.
00:36:52
Speaker
um So those sorts of organisations. There are lots of charities out there as well, you know, who who may be able to provide advice within that, you know, within that area of specialism.
00:37:02
Speaker
And I think you mentioned earlier as well about the power of recommendations from other parents and carers or other people in similar situations. And I know for sure that, you at the PDA Society, we have Facebook groups. And I think, you know, if you can find out from other local parents who, you know, who would be helpful in their area, I think that's absolutely invaluable as well. So, yeah. yeah Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Lakshmi. Have you got any final pearls of wisdom or any final message that you would like to leave our listeners with?
00:37:35
Speaker
No pressure. Yeah.
00:37:38
Speaker
Well, look, I always say, you know, I always say when you're in this as a lawyer, obviously, i just say know the law. Yes. I have many parents who will tell me, not sure, because schools told them one thing. Parents have said one thing, perhaps. um Local authorities are telling them something different. And there's a lot of confusion and and nobody quite knows what's what. Well, the law is the law and it sets it out very clearly. and So I'm going to start off, go, end with where I started off, which is the send code of practice again.
00:38:10
Speaker
All right. If you're not sure, have a look in there. and see what it says. It sets it out in a very easy to read format. If you're not sure, it'll set it out in there. um And, you know, check on anything that you you're told if you're not sure about anything. Timelines, what should be happening, what must be happening.
00:38:29
Speaker
Should is different to must, um so that parents know what they should be challenging. Okay, great. That's lovely. Thank you so much. um I just, you just like to reiterate, thank you so much. I know that will be incredibly helpful to parents and carers, regardless of what stage of their SEND journey they're on. So yeah, thank you very much. And yeah, we shall keep in touch. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you.