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033 - Digestible, Defendable, Actionable – How to drive impact with Data
123 Plays18 days ago
Digestible. Defensible. Actionable.
What does it really take to drive impact with data?
Too often, analysts are left wondering:
“Why didn’t anyone do anything with that insight?”
This week on the Stacked Data Podcast, I’m joined by Sam Marks, Director of Analytics & Business Strategy at the Boston Bruins, to explore the gap between finding insights and driving action — and how to close it.
Sam shares the Digestible, Defensible, Actionable framework he uses to turn analysis into outcomes, covering:
✅ What makes an insight digestible (and where analysts go wrong)
✅ How to make your work defensible and credible
✅ What separates an interesting insight from an actionable one
✅ How to overcome inaction from stakeholders
✅ Real-world examples of the framework in action
This one’s packed with tactical advice for any data professional tired of their work getting stuck in slide decks.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to The Stacked Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the Stacked Podcast, brought to you by Cognify, the recruitment partner for modern data
Challenges in Data Analytics
00:00:10
Speaker
teams. Hosted by me, Harry Gollup.
00:00:13
Speaker
Stacked with incredible content from the most influential and successful data teams, interviewing industry experts who share their invaluable journeys, groundbreaking projects, and most importantly, their key learnings.
00:00:25
Speaker
So get ready to join us as we uncover the dynamic world of modern data.
Meet Sam Marks: Director of Analytics at Boston Bruins
00:00:34
Speaker
Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Stacked Data podcast. Today, we're diving into the challenges most data professionals will relate to. how to move beyond just reporting numbers and actually driving action and insights which you can uncover.
00:00:53
Speaker
Joining me today is Sam Marks, the Director of Analytics and Business Strategy at Boston Bruins. Sam's led some amazing high-performing teams over his time and has really developed a ah a really nice framework, which I think is going to really resonate with a lot of people to hopefully help you in driving impact in your analytics world. So, um yeah, welcome to the show, Sam. How are you doing?
00:01:17
Speaker
I'm doing well, Harry. it's It's great to be here. Thank you for ah thank you for having me. Brilliant. Yeah, it's great to to have you on. And i said yeah I suppose first off for the audience, it would be awesome to get a bit of insight to yourself. I suppose it' your journey into it's the world of data and I suppose a bit more about your current role.
00:01:35
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. So as as Harry, you you so nicely teed up, I'm currently the director of business strategy and analytics for the Boston Bruins and TD Garden. I've been in sports for quite a bit of my career, um and I have been in using data and analytics to problem solve for all of it. I started my career in management consulting, spent several years doing that with a couple big consulting firms doing the come in and make a, identify a problem, make a recommendation, and sometimes implement a solution framework.
00:02:05
Speaker
Great experience. Love the work. Travel got a little tough. But other than that, I love my time in consulting. i pivoted into sports. You know, it's it's interesting. I knew I wanted to work in
Transition to Sports Industry
00:02:16
Speaker
sports. I'd grown up ah certainly a consumer and a fan of the content, but never really as familiar with the business side and knew I wanted to find a way in or or find a way into something a little different, but wasn't exactly sure how to do that.
00:02:29
Speaker
So I did what anyone would do if you want to pivot and don't know how I went to business school and got my MBA. While I was in grad school, I was very fortunate. I had some some professional exposure to the business world of sport. I did an internship with the NFL League office in New York in their corporate strategy and data analytics teams. I also worked with the Chicago Bulls as a student consultant for about seven months, including a month on site.
00:02:52
Speaker
And yeah, I just, ah you know, love the, again, love the industry, fell in love with the work and the people. And so after I graduated, decided that's what I wanted to do full time. And so had an opportunity, helped a friend of mine from undergrad, launched a very early stage startup, worked for a media company in New York for a little under a year. And then ah i spent three seasons with the Arizona Coyotes, formerly Arizona Coyotes, now the Utah Hockey Club, doing the same thing that I do in Boston. So leading data analytics and business strategy.
00:03:22
Speaker
great experiences and then I've been with the Bruins. This is the, I'm wrapping up my second season now. And so
Driving Impact in Analytics
00:03:28
Speaker
ton of fun. I've moved around quite a bit in my career. i Excited to be in Beantown and have ah have had a ah great time in all the places I've been.
00:03:35
Speaker
Excellent. It's a great overview. and And I know when we were talking about this this episode and getting you on, there you were you were super passionate about yeah driving real impact with data and going beyond, I suppose, the the surface level. And yeah Many teams, I think, do struggle to, and um done professionals, I think, particularly early in their their career, do struggle to to really find and drive real impact from their their insights and and go beyond just that that initial reporting layer. well Why do you think that that is?
00:04:08
Speaker
Well, I think it's tough. I think, you know, are the problems that we solve, there's no obvious answer. And not only is there no obvious answer, there's there's no obvious way to know if you were right until much, much further down the road. And so I think that the the challenges that you're faced with, especially if you're in this data analytics or problem-solving capacity early in your career, you know, we're we're we're used to coming from a setting in an academic environment where...
00:04:33
Speaker
there's a right answer and there's ah you know and and an answer key that you're graded against, or there's an accepted you know sort of outcome that you're trying to reach and you're measured against that outcome. And I think we have elements of that, certainly in the quote unquote real world and everything that we do, there is a a right answer. It's just, there's no there's no way to know what that is, right? And so I think In my experience, when you're you're you're trying to drive impact, it's a lot less of, you know yes it'd be great if you know we we do X action and then Y result takes place and you know positive impact of Y divided by effort that I put in do X gives me an ah ROI number.
00:05:12
Speaker
And I think in the abstract, ah that that's a very easy concept in the sort of in situ and trying to To measure that in sort of a real world setting is much more
Framework for Actionable Insights
00:05:24
Speaker
difficult. And so I think taking complex problems and getting comfortable with the idea that you aren't going to be able to solve the whole problem and you won't even know if you solved it until maybe long after the decision is made.
00:05:37
Speaker
And combining that with the path dependence of the real world, where if you make a decision today, it you know, limits the decisions you can make tomorrow. And then ah that's okay. That's, that's life. I think combining all that in sort of, especially early in your career can be a tough thing to grapple with and wrap your head around.
00:05:54
Speaker
I really like that point. You don't always know whether you've found that that golden bullet. You've got the the right answer because sometimes you know the impact of your your works can take months to really come to light. So I think, yeah, that's really good advice to to come comfortable with that. But I think we can dive into how you can try and identify some of them early early indicators um of that. I suppose one of the reasons of um one of the ways you can can see if your your work is yeah yeah on the on the right path is whether it's actually actionable. And I think that's a ah common mistake that the many teams and um professionals do fall into that that reporting trap of just self seeing dashboards. So why do you think it's so important to provide actionable insights?
00:06:39
Speaker
Well, it's a great question. And I think, you know, the the theme of this podcast, right, is digestible, defensible, actionable, which is the problem-solving framework that I always try to so put in place with my teams.
00:06:50
Speaker
And early in my career, it was just digestible and defensible, right? it was digestible. Can I give leadership or the decision maker a piece of information that is digestible so they understand you know high level?
00:07:03
Speaker
i'm I'm using empathy to put myself in their shoes and understand the decision they're trying to make. And very quickly, they can digest the insight I'm giving them. And is it defensible? You know, if if I'm giving them a 30 second soundbite, but it's based on hours and hours of work, obviously it's unlikely they'll ah you know go into each math calculation or model that we've built together to come up with that solution.
00:07:24
Speaker
But if they did, i trust my work. It's correct. It's right. It's accurate. And so for a while, it was just digestible and defensible. And then you know after a couple of years, and and you know as you grow in your career and you get put in more of those decision-making situations yourself, you start to realize, well, if if I, you know Harry, if I've built you this beautiful dashboard or written this this really thorough and detailed report and you understand it and it's backed by science and it's backed by logic and and and my my figures are correct and your answer to me is, oh, well, Sam, that's that's pretty interesting.
00:07:58
Speaker
I've added no value, right? i've I've not done anything to help you push the business forward, to help us make a decision. And so I think that actionable piece, right? Like taking that step back and it's so easy to get caught up in the methodology and the analysis that you're doing. And it's so satisfying to come up with an answer and be able to to share an insight that sometimes we do lose sight of the the the forest for the trees and and miss that, okay, but so what moment. And so I think when I think about why actionable is important, I mean, that's where you're really adding value, right? That's where a decision is being made and there's gonna be path dependence subsequent to it.
00:08:37
Speaker
And so making i don't want to say the right decision, but making the best decision you can with the information you have access to is so critical to moving things forward. I think that point you made about, you know, so what is is so important. I think people can get bogged down with, and you know, getting lost in the data, really letting themselves loose um so to to find interesting stuff. But I think the so what is is really important. ah who Who really cares? And is what you're doing going really, you know, move the needle for a given stakeholder, for a given metric? And I think having that, always having that alignment as to what's the business strategy, what are actually trying to achieve?
00:09:17
Speaker
is is so important and and then you you don't get them them so what moments um And I love, obviously, you the the theme of the topic of the the podcast, digestible, defensible,
Communicating Insights Effectively
00:09:30
Speaker
actionable. That's three clear objectives set to have in your your insights and this this framework that that you hold yourself and your your team ah accountable to. so yeah, I would love to break it down ah a bit more. how where Where did this come from? how' do you apply each one of these these steps? We can go go through one by one
00:09:51
Speaker
Yeah, of course. I think to me, digestible means the person who's receiving the report, receiving the insight, receiving the conclusion can understand what you are can can understand what you are trying to share in a format that is compatible with the bandwidth that they have to to dedicate to this piece of information, right? And so very early, and and I'm going to date myself a bit, but smartphones were or become became a thing, ah you know, when I was in college and and shortly after early in my career and the the tests that we always tried to apply, right, was, okay, you know, you get on an iPhone, you get that little back then they were a little smaller. So you get like, maybe nine words worth of preview for each email you get.
00:10:34
Speaker
ah The conclusion should be there, right? Like whatever you're sharing should be able to be under like, if it's too complex, to break it down into something that's short, you're not providing something digestible.
00:10:48
Speaker
The conclusion should be in a format. And I think how you get to that is you empathize with the person who's receiving your work or your recommendation or your input, and you really put yourself in their shoes and think, okay, how is Harry who's receiving this this insight from me,
00:11:02
Speaker
how is he gonna receive this, right? I've spent the last week heads down, cranking on this model. I know this inside and out. you know I know the nuance, I know the context. Harry maybe doesn't know that. you know If Harry's my direct manager, I might get 15 minutes with Harry to walk through the findings.
00:11:19
Speaker
If Harry is, you know at the time I was in consulting, so that the partner or the the engagement, the the senior engagement manager, He's probably reading this again on his phone, walking through the airport, trying to catch his next flight and is going to look at it, you know, while he's also trying to figure out his gate. And again, just trying to really put myself in that person's shoes was drilled into my head from a very early time in my career that you're you get a very limited attention span with the ultimate decision maker.
00:11:44
Speaker
And so make it count. We're not telling a story. There should be no plot twist. You know, the one thing that I had a partner at when I was at Accenture that just absolutely hated when you had these long emails and you buried the conclusion at the end, said you know, look, we're not putting on a show here. There's not supposed to be a surprise ending.
00:12:01
Speaker
Tell them the conclusion and then back it up with the the context and the detail and they can read into that as they need to. And so to me, digestible comes from a place of, understanding as information is elevated up through the organization, bandwidth and time to really understand it and um and and and see the context isn't always also also there. And so recognizing that, how are you going to take the most important pieces of information and put them in a format that can be read. If that's a presentation, it's using graphics and it's using scaled numbers or different, ah you know quickly understandable factors of an image to convey something, you know, red for bad, green for good.
00:12:45
Speaker
If it's an email, understand you've only got those nine those nine words in sort of the... ah the preview of that message. If it's just 10 seconds on an elevator, it's understanding you have those 10 seconds. So what are you going to say? How are you go to choose your words as efficiently as possible to convey as much information in an understandable and bite-sized, to use a bad a bad metaphor, digestible piece?
00:13:10
Speaker
I think it's it's clear. I mean, it's talking about what you're talking about there is impactful communication and effective communication. And I think having empathy for for your stakeholder that you're working with, I love to obviously, you as an analyst, you're caught up, you know, all the nuances of what you're doing, but you know, that that stakeholders getting that early only a glimpse and they want to know, what should I do? What's the data saying? What should I do?
00:13:34
Speaker
and why should I do it? So I yeah, it's a really makes a lot of sense there, ah Sam. Why else is it so important for things to be diet digestible? Is it just the just the speed or?
00:13:46
Speaker
I think it also helps, you know, people make decisions better when they have information in a consistent format. And so I think forcing yourself to make things digestible, yes, efficiency is really important.
00:13:58
Speaker
But I also think consistency and building your own personal brand and how you convey information is only going to make it easier for you to convey the information that you need to the person who's receiving
Ensuring Credible Analytics
00:14:10
Speaker
it. And so if this is the first time we've had a conversation, ah you know you might still be trying to understand you know me and and how I operate and how I communicate.
00:14:20
Speaker
If it's the 12th time, yeah You've picked up on, if I've communicated consistently, you've picked up on nuances and you know what what I elevate and and how I portray different factors to you, ah you know the the the tools that I use. and I think when you force yourself to be digestible, you force yourself to develop a standardized, consistent, personal brand.
00:14:43
Speaker
i think when you do that across, you know as you as you elevate that to a team level and to an organizational level, everyone's sort of rowing in the same direction is really important. And there's a lot of ways to be consistent. You can put structures in place, you can put really complex sort of approaches that this is how we this is how we demonstrate, that this is the figure we use to demonstrate this KPI at this organization.
00:15:06
Speaker
But what I've found is that forcing yourself to be digestible actually shortcuts a lot of that road process input that you need to do because to be digestible, you very quickly have to discover what's important and what's not.
00:15:18
Speaker
And so I think you also get that added benefit of a consistent and, and, and standard communication that helps convey information over time in a way that's that's this useful.
00:15:31
Speaker
What about defensible then? When it comes to defensibility, what are we talking about here? Are we talking about you know the the the credibility, the trustworthiness, the, i suppose, the the authenticity of your analysis? yeah well what What do you mean by defensible?
00:15:46
Speaker
Well, I actually think this is the easiest one, right? It's got to be correct. I think it has to be right. And I think how you do that, I mean, you you have trust in yourself and your background and your experience and the academic or professional rigor that you're able to put behind your work.
00:16:00
Speaker
You trust but verify the work that you do, you know, building in those sanity checks or smell tests as you're as you're building out a model to think, okay, well, let me let me let me pull out a few spot checks here to make sure this matches up. And I think, yeah, yeah I mean, it's how you it's the credibility that you have and how what you're communicating is received and trusted. And again, it's this idea that if I've, you let's play this scenario out a little more. I had been heads down for a week. I've got 15 seconds to tell you about this conclusion on the elevator. And we get off the elevator and you say to me, hey, Sam, step into my office. Walk me through the backend math here.
00:16:39
Speaker
Walk me through how we got this number, right? This number, ah you're you're telling me that ROI is... thirty point 30.3%. Walk me through how we got to that. And again, it's not often that you're asked to walk through the entirety of your model, but it's pretty often that someone says, give me a little more context behind this specific piece of information because I'm curious or I want to know, or it doesn't smell right to me. And so I think being able to show how show your work and and how you got to an answer is important.
00:17:08
Speaker
I think another big piece of defensible, right, is being honest about what you don't know and being upfront about what the model can't explain. I mean, we can't predict the future perfectly. We all have our own limitations and our problem-solving approaches. We all have blind spots.
00:17:24
Speaker
And so I think building in that uncertainty and being upfront about it, like, hey, Harry, you know, yeah, I think the number's 30, but it's 30 plus or minus 6 versus it's 30 plus or minus 0.5. Those are two very different conclusions. And so I think sharing that information, being upfront about what you're confident in, how you got there, being prepared to dive into any individual number and explain and show your work, and then communicating the remaining uncertainty or the remaining unknowns is really impactful here.
Aligning Insights with Business Strategy
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah, I completely agree. i think but b you need to know your rationale. You need to know how you how you've got there. And I think you know understanding that is is key. And I love what you say, use and your your confidence intervals. That really depends on, I suppose, on um what stakeholder or what business is looking for there. ah some Some insights where your confidence confidence intervals have to be much, much smaller, there's a lot less margin for error.
00:18:19
Speaker
And other times where I suppose you can be a bit more fast and loose, depending on that sort of speed of, of delivery as well well always say you know you pick you pick two of the three cheap fast accurate you can't have all three and pick two and i think if uh you're optimizing for accuracy it might take you a while or it's not going to be cheap if you just need a quick back of the envelope number uh you know you have that wider uncertainty range but it was cheap and fast yeah Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. It's a great way to break it down for for people. and And then, yeah, obviously the final piece of the puzzle, actionable, with which we've we've been speaking about quite a bit already. um
00:18:59
Speaker
so what What separates them interesting findings and then interesting insights to something that's truly, truly actionable? Well, I think, again, it gets back to that empathy piece and what is the decision we're actually trying to make? And I think this is where early in my career, I, you know, I ah struggled with this and and and, you know, it's always getting more insight into leadership and understanding truly like the decision that they're trying to make the goal that the business has.
00:19:28
Speaker
That is how you drive an actionable versus an interesting insight. And so to me, that comes down to understanding the way the organization works, understanding the macro environment with which with we're operating, really understanding strategy and not just the word and what it means, but but the strategy that the firm has put in place from the highest levels that we are now, again, all rowing in the same direction on.
00:19:53
Speaker
How does this fit in the puzzle? What is the decision Harry's trying to make? Is he ah you know is he trying to build versus buy versus forego? Is he trying to invest in you know one thing versus another? you know Understanding, hey, yeah I was asked to do an analysis of x y and z and it'd be great if we always got the full context, but it's actually...
00:20:16
Speaker
really a fair expectation on me that I know the full context. I should know the business. I should know what we're trying to do. And so I think having that context, understanding the decision that's trying to be made and being able to parse that out for yourself without having someone to explicitly tell you, well, we're thinking about option A versus option B. Of course, more information is always better and you should always you know feel empowered to clarify things. But being able to fully immerse yourself in the person's shoes is going to be getting this in from piece of information that we are very confident is defensible and we've worked really hard to make it digestible.
00:20:51
Speaker
Now let's let's make a recommendation, right? Let's understand the the situation they're trying to be in and let's let's put a put a stake in the ground, right? And say, well, you know, I say option I recommend option A because of these reasons.
00:21:03
Speaker
And also option B would be favorable. You know, I don't recommend it, but these are the advantages and these are the disadvantages to each, right? So I think bringing everything with a recommended sort of follow-up or the so what is how you reach that action ability.
00:21:20
Speaker
I think that's excellent. I think the the other thing that helps you with that actionability is that, yeah, being that business partner, really understanding what the business is trying to to achieve and and spending that maybe be a little bit of extra time up front, you that vague requirement, don't just don't just run at it.
00:21:38
Speaker
Spend that, invest a little time to really understand what that person is trying to achieve. and You should already know what the but the core the core business is is is looking for. And then, yeah, dig deeper. And you'll probably know this more than me, Sam. I think you sometimes stakeholders don't always know what they need or all or they say they're they're looking for that stuff. They ask one question, which they actually want an answer to another one, I think, to make it truly actionable. you You've got to be there unleash your curiosity um yeah to really not find that out.
Building Skills in Analytics Storytelling
00:22:08
Speaker
Definitely. I think yeah curiosity is a great word, right? Like understanding the the context and taking the time to think critically and and think emotionally about what is the decision that's actually trying to be made here and why is this important for the business?
00:22:24
Speaker
And to your point, sometimes the question you get asked is not actually what that person is is looking to answer. ah So being that partner and taking ownership in this process and saying, hey, Harry, you know I know we're looking into ah you know x Y, or Z, but taking a step back,
00:22:41
Speaker
I think the challenge we're really grappling with, right, is that we have, you know, this this KPI is is not where we want it to be. And so we think X, Y, or z are are interesting options. But I actually think, you know, here's here's another thing you might consider. Here's a different way you might solve this problem.
00:22:57
Speaker
I think that's how you give yourself accountability. And that's how you bring something from interesting to actionable. Excellent. And if an analyst was trying to, you know they've listened to us speak there, they want to apply this this framework today, what are the first steps they should take to help doing this? And and how can they, suppose, improve their storytelling skills? Because I think storytelling is, you know, is how you talk through something that's digestible. You talk through your defense and then you talk your action. You You've done it very well, and I'm sure it's over time, but how what advice would you give to an analyst who's looking to apply these principles and tell a story that is digestible, defensible, and and actionable?
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, so there's three pieces of advice I give and each kind of ties to one of them. that It's trust yourself and and have confidence in in kind of your background and your experience. It's lean on others to help smell test things.
00:23:49
Speaker
And it's get reps, right? do Do things a lot of times and get better at them. And so going through each of those ah you know Trust yourself and have confidence in in who you are and where you came from. And we all have a little bit of imposter syndrome or a lot of imposter syndrome, but at the end of the day, you know you you deserve to be where you are You are qualified for the role you have. You've worked really, really hard to get here.
00:24:12
Speaker
So trust that, right? Your your work is is defensible. Your work is good. That doesn't mean you don't check it. That doesn't mean you don't put in place the you know measure twice, cut once philosophy.
00:24:23
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, don't go into something scared of making a mistake. Go into something respecting that making a mistake is bad and building proper structures around that to minimize that chance and and trust that you know you you know what you're doing and you deserve to work on this problem.
00:24:40
Speaker
I think the ah the digestible piece, I mean, that come to me came down from a lot of a lot of opportunities where I got to work on something and presented to someone more senior than me or someone who is making it a decision. And I'm pretty proud of it. And I get the feedback. Well, this just doesn't make sense to me. but I don't get this. And unfortunately, you know that's a little, that's a part of growth, right? But i I think the way you can, again, shortcut around some of that, right, is lean on your peers, right? Print print out a a picture of the dashboard you have and put it in front of someone who's working on a different problem, but not this one and say, hey, Harry, what what do you think?
00:25:16
Speaker
Like, does this make sense to you? And and that's a good way to test the the yes, it's digestible or no, it's not. You know, practice. If you're going to have a an email to an executive that you've you've worked really hard to distill into two sentences,
00:25:30
Speaker
Ask Harry, hey, Harry, can you can you take a look at this? right Don't be afraid to ask for help and lean on others. And again, I think it comes with reps, but the way you can sort in some of those reps is by by leaning on others and and leaning on your peers and your colleagues. And we're all on the same team. Let's work together as a team.
00:25:47
Speaker
And I think the actionable piece, yeah, I mean, it it just, I wish I had a more satisfying answer, but more and more reps, more and more opportunities to do something and make a recommendation are going to only build your understanding of how your company and the business world actually operate.
00:26:02
Speaker
And as you grow that, as you grow your knowledge base that you can tap into, yeah the the older you get, the more opportunities I have where I'm asked to solve a problem and I'm able to think,
00:26:14
Speaker
ah yeah this is kind of like that thing that I did six years ago at this other job that might even be in a different industry, right? Or this is kind of like this this problem we worked on at Accenture. And of course, no two situations are the same and the world changes, but I think your ability to build reps, not only to practice, but also to build that library that you can tap into is really, really powerful.
00:26:37
Speaker
I think that's excellent advice. And I couldn't agree more. You you should get comfortable being uncomfortable, ah hunt out them them opportunities to be able to provide insights, recommendations, and and put yourself out there.
00:26:50
Speaker
You're not always going to be right. no one ever is. So yeah, the the more you can do, the the more you can hone and develop your craft.
Navigating Stakeholder Challenges
00:26:58
Speaker
I suppose one final bit of advice that I think would be really helpful, Sam, is...
00:27:05
Speaker
yeah you've given a really clear framework and some great advice. And it's all and yeah it's making it sound easy that the stakeholder is going to listen, they're going action on your on the insight that you've delivered. But how do you handle, all I suppose, difficult stakeholders who, you know they don't trust you, they don't want to act on your advice, even when it seems super, super clear? How how do you manage that situation? I think that's sort something that people are always struggle with.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think have a thick skin, right? And accept that if you're not the decision maker, that's that's okay. You've done, you've made your input, um but use it as a learning opportunity, right? Ask ask the person, you know, well can i can I have some feedback? You know, why?
00:27:49
Speaker
I'd love to understand and and don't do it from a place of, you defensiveness, do it from a place of vulnerability, right? Like, yeah, oh, Harry, you I ah hear you that, you know, I'm i'm recommending option A and and you think we should go with option B and like, obviously, you know respect at the end of the day, it's your decision. And <unk>d I'd love to understand like, you know, what what am I missing here so that I can give you a better answer next time so I can be more in line with your expertise. And You never know. It could be that that person's answer is going to be, well, you know, option B to me reminds me of this thing that I did 15 years ago. And, and you know, at at the time we went with option A and it was bad for A, B and C. And so, you know, I think using it as a chance to learn is, is, is good.
00:28:30
Speaker
It could be as simple as, ah you know, I, I trust my gut and my gut says option B. And even though you recommend option A, I think it's option B. I think just again, having the respect for, you the situation you're in and and accepting that, you know, nobody's recommendation is implemented all of the time and you are doing the best to give the best answer you can with the information you have.
00:28:52
Speaker
But as we said at the beginning, it's impossible to predict the future. It's impossible to know who's right and who's not often until very, very long down the line. And so I think it's taking it in stride and accepting that, you know, hey, I,
00:29:06
Speaker
i made I did the best I could. I made a recommendation and it's not being implemented for whatever reason. And that's okay. I don't tie my self-worth to the recommendations being adopted or not, but I'm gonna use this as an opportunity to grow and learn from this person. And I think when you do that,
00:29:22
Speaker
you've kind of flipped the script a little bit. You've taken it from, well, you're not doing what I think you should be doing to we're learning together. And we and and we we both want the same thing, right? Ultimately, we all want the the business to succeed or our company to to grow or move forward in a positive direction.
00:29:39
Speaker
So let's learn from each other, right? you know i've I'm trying to teach you something and I've made a recommendation and ultimately it's it's not the direction we wanna go and and that's okay. What can I learn? Like, hey, Harry, tell me a little more. like is there is there an opportunity for me to grow from this?
00:29:55
Speaker
And I think you'll often, you know, if you ask for you'll often get feedback that's helpful and actionable. And sometimes it's it will be more satisfying. Sometimes it won't. But I think that's where just...
00:30:05
Speaker
Having the right perspective and having a thick skin is important. And don't take it personally. Again, we all want the same thing. It's just the team has arrived at a different conclusion than you would have in a vacuum. And trust that the sum of the parts is better than any individual. And we've arrived at the right conclusion for the team.
00:30:25
Speaker
And you've just been a part of that input that might have had a slightly different recommendation. I think that's really sound advice, especially you know the ah thick skin. I suppose my i yeah my lens also on this is I like what you're saying about asking the the right questions. I suppose understanding, showing empathy, but understanding how they've come to their conclusion, that can maybe then be a way to to influence, right? If you you can question, you get to to their restaurant and you find out actually it's just their gut.
00:30:53
Speaker
oh, why, what is it about you guys? And then you can then actually try and flip that to then resell your idea of your defense that you've got and what the data is showing. So think you're just picking your battles, but think asking the right questions and uncovering them hidden truths can be a way to influence stakeholders as well. Because I think sometimes, it depends the type of stakeholder and person, I think sometimes people can be reluctant, and they want to go with their gut when actually maybe the the data, are maybe you are right and you you do know the best thing. So but it's it's that way to tiptoe around it in the right way.
00:31:30
Speaker
i don't know if you've had any experience in in that. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, i i have absolutely been in situations where, you know, I've made a recommendation and ah something different's been done or or a reason has been given that's maybe, you know, not what I had initially thought of when I approach the problem, but I always try to use it as a learning experience, right? Like at the end of the day, the way that the environment is set up is that there is usually one decision maker or one, you know, group of decision makers that has to arrive at consensus. And sometimes you're, you're in that position and sometimes you're not. And I think when you're not,
00:32:10
Speaker
it's okay to, I guess the one piece of additional advice i would give is it's not a failure. As long as you grew, as long as you learned, as long as you gained a little bit of credibility by sharing why you came up with what you thought was the right approach, you you've not failed. You've not done anything wrong. You've just made a recommendation that's not being adopted. you know, look, the, what I'm hardly the only person. And I think anyone listening is if you feel like you're the only person to be in that situation, I promise you, you're not. I think the end of the day, like the way that these systems are set up, it's a lot of people making inputs, but ultimately one decision that needs to get made and responsibility. If it doesn't lie with you, don't, don't take it as a personal failure.
00:32:53
Speaker
Take it as a learning opportunity. If what you recommend is ultimately not the answer that's chosen.
Developing Problem-Solving Approaches
00:32:58
Speaker
Excellent. Well, look, Sam, it's been a pleasure speaking. Love the insights. It's been really, really insightful for the audience. Before I let you go, I would love to know one key sort of mindset to shift that you would give to an analyst that's trying to to to apply this this this framework to help them succeed in their career.
00:33:20
Speaker
um be your own professional, right? Come up with the system that works for you. This is one that works well for me and and the teams that I've been on. And I think it's something that,
00:33:32
Speaker
encompasses a lot of the priorities that we have as as analysts and as as people trying to help make decisions. But I have found that you know you're going to learn from people in your career and emulate and try to find things about how they operate that are useful for you as you grow your own path. But you're going to have your own ideas and you're going to have your own framework and ah you're going to have your own problem solving approach. and it's like, don't be afraid to be your own person, right? I think at the end of the day, the reason why we, you know, come into an organization is to add unique perspective and and add to, ah you know, cognitive ah diversity or or this idea that multiple people with different life experiences are able to collectively make better decisions than any one individual.
00:34:20
Speaker
And so my advice would be, ah you know With this or with anything, take it as one input of an interesting thing that someone else has done and been somewhat successful with, but don't feel like you have to copy it if you have a a better way or a a modification or an enhancement it's or you think of a fourth pillar. ah no that's valid, right? try Again, I think goes back to trusting who you are and how you got here and you deserve to be here and you're going to have your own ideas. So my advice to someone in their early in their career is lean into that and grow. And that's that's how you differentiate yourself is by coming up with your own problem-solving approach.
00:34:56
Speaker
I think if you do that, it's it's going to lead to great things. Excellent. Well, look, Sam, it's been a ah pleasure to to have you on. Thanks for for sharing yeah your insights with the guests.
00:35:08
Speaker
Yeah, Harry, this is great. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And yeah, I hope we chat again soon. Excellent. That's it for this week. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you soon. Bye-bye.
00:35:20
Speaker
Well, that's it for this week. Thank you so, so much for tuning in. I really hope you've learned something. i know I have. The Stacked podcast aims to share real journeys and lessons that empower you and the entire community. Together, we aim to unlock new perspectives and overcome challenges in the ever-evolving landscape of modern data.
00:35:42
Speaker
Today's episode was brought to you by Cognify, the recruitment partner for modern data teams. If you've enjoyed today's episode, hit that follow button to stay updated with our latest releases.
00:35:53
Speaker
More importantly, if you believe this episode could benefit someone you know, please share it with them. We're always on the lookout for new guests who have inspiring stories and valuable lessons to share with our community.
00:36:04
Speaker
If you or someone you know fits that bill, please don't hesitate to reach out. I've been Harry Gollop from Cognify, your host and guide on this data-driven journey. Until next time, over and out.