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Under the Banyan Tree – Live from Singapore
33 Plays3 months ago
Fred Neumann and Herald van der Linde take the podcast on the road, recording a live ASEAN-focused episode from HSBC Singapore with special guests Joy Wang, Pranjul Bhandari and Joey Chew. Disclaimer: https://www.research.hsbc.com/R/101/PwmPbx9. Stay connected and access free to view reports and videos from HSBC Global Research follow us on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/feed/hashtag/hsbcresearch/ or click here: https://www.gbm.hsbc.com/insights/global-research.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to HSBC Global Viewpoint, the podcast series that brings together business leaders and industry experts to explore the latest global insights, trends, and opportunities.
00:00:13
Speaker
Make sure you're subscribed to stay up to date with new episodes.
00:00:16
Speaker
Thanks for listening.
00:00:17
Speaker
And now onto today's show.
00:00:24
Speaker
This is a podcast from HSBC Global Research, available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
00:00:29
Speaker
However you're listening, analyst notifications, disclosures and disclaimers must be viewed on the link attached to your media player.
ASEAN Focus and Guest Introductions
00:00:45
Speaker
Welcome to Under the Banyan Tree.
00:00:47
Speaker
It's Fred here in Hong Kong and Harold and I have just returned from a trip to Singapore for HSBC's Asian Outlook Conference.
00:00:56
Speaker
And while we were there we thought why not do a podcast from somewhere a little different.
00:01:00
Speaker
So today we bring you an episode we recorded in front of a live audience at HSBC Singapore with a focus squarely on the ASEAN region.
00:01:10
Speaker
We were lucky enough to have three great guests with us.
00:01:13
Speaker
Joey Wang, our head of ASEAN equity research.
00:01:16
Speaker
Joey Chu, who leads our FX research team here in Asia.
00:01:20
Speaker
And Pranjal Bhandari, chief economist for India and Indonesia.
00:01:25
Speaker
Harold and I are your co-hosts as usual.
00:01:27
Speaker
And as we like to say here on the podcast, let's kick off the conversation right here under the banyan tree.
00:01:35
Speaker
Let's just kick off Pranjul.
00:01:37
Speaker
I think the headlines are very clear this week.
Impact of US Tariffs on ASEAN
00:01:40
Speaker
We have a new president in the U.S. But if you think about ASEAN and this idea of tariffs, for example, being imposed, how worried are you about the region?
00:01:51
Speaker
How should we think about the impact on the economies across ASEAN?
00:01:56
Speaker
What happens in Trump 2 depends a lot on the details of the tariffs, if any, that are going to be announced.
00:02:03
Speaker
If it is more of the same, for instance, tariffs on China largely, then maybe ASEAN can continue to benefit like it was in Trump 1.
00:02:11
Speaker
But if it is more wide, for instance, if there are blanket tariffs on countries like Vietnam or if there's a tariff on the Chinese import content, then I think there could be a lot of dispersion and diversion of chains again and a lot of disruption.
00:02:28
Speaker
On the back of that, there could be a new set of losers and winners.
00:02:31
Speaker
So, you know, there's a lot we still don't know.
00:02:33
Speaker
But on the whole, my sense is that ASEAN has relative resilience, a lot of trade between each other.
00:02:40
Speaker
They're going a lot in terms of services exports and that should, you know, give them some buffer.
Equities Volatility and ASEAN Resilience
00:02:45
Speaker
And Joy, what does that mean for equities?
00:02:48
Speaker
I guess for equities, we will continue to see a lot of volatilities.
00:02:53
Speaker
A lot of the details still need to be ironed out.
00:02:56
Speaker
So until we actually know the implementations, market is going to trade on headline news.
00:03:03
Speaker
So volatility creates opportunities to actually pick up some of the interesting stocks that have strong fundamentals.
00:03:10
Speaker
So the way you describe all of this is that actually there's a lot of policy risk coming out of the U.S., a lot of uncertainty.
00:03:19
Speaker
But if you look through the volatility, you actually seem to suggest, all of you, I think that ASEAN might be relatively resilient in this, that ASEAN might be a region where we look for relatively strong growth.
00:03:32
Speaker
currencies under pressure maybe for a while.
00:03:35
Speaker
Joey, but is it really something where we need to worry about?
00:03:39
Speaker
I mean, the balance of payments are all very strong.
00:03:42
Speaker
The fundamentals are robust.
00:03:44
Speaker
How do you look at the region overall in terms of the global context?
Intra-regional Trade and Diversification
00:03:48
Speaker
I mean, there are some variations.
00:03:49
Speaker
Certain currencies in this region, it's a little bit more vulnerable because they naturally have FX demand more than FX supply.
00:03:57
Speaker
For example, if they run trade deficits, the natural balance of currency and exchange rate in the economy is that they have more importers trying to buy dollars.
00:04:08
Speaker
That actually leads to a bit more currency depreciation.
00:04:10
Speaker
So for some of these countries in the region, we're talking about Indonesia, Philippines, they run trade deficits.
00:04:16
Speaker
On the other hand, we have currencies in the region that are naturally more supplied with FX supply.
00:04:23
Speaker
So, the SING dollar, ringgit, these are thai bat, these are currencies that might be naturally just a little bit more resilient.
00:04:29
Speaker
So, it depends a little bit on the economy we're looking at.
00:04:32
Speaker
Pranjul, how should we think about resilience in ASEAN?
00:04:36
Speaker
This word is often heard, you know, the resilience of these economies.
00:04:39
Speaker
As an economist, what do you attribute that resilience to?
00:04:43
Speaker
Why is the region, you know,
00:04:46
Speaker
against all these headlines actually, why is it relatively immune against everything that we read?
00:04:52
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:04:53
Speaker
I think there are a couple of things that stand out.
00:04:55
Speaker
ASEAN as a region, as a block, has become pretty big, exporting a lot between each other, visiting each other's countries as tourists, FDI flows in the region.
00:05:05
Speaker
So there's a lot of like intra-regional trade that's going on.
00:05:09
Speaker
I think that's one source.
00:05:10
Speaker
The other is diversification, as in traditionally ASEAN has been a big
00:05:14
Speaker
producer and exporter of goods, but it's really moving into services as well.
00:05:18
Speaker
You know, high tech services from Singapore, a lot of professional services from the Philippines, you know, these are becoming new sources of growth.
00:05:27
Speaker
And then if you look at the domestic economy, inflation is coming off.
00:05:31
Speaker
which is great for consumer power.
00:05:34
Speaker
Many countries, for example Indonesia, are cutting rates.
00:05:38
Speaker
Some other countries like Thailand and Indonesia are likely to give a fiscal stimulus this year.
00:05:43
Speaker
So these will be sources of growth which will still be around.
00:05:47
Speaker
So wait, inflation coming down, we got investment flows coming in, probably new industries popping
Indonesia's Growth Prospects
00:05:54
Speaker
up.
00:05:54
Speaker
That must be good for equities, Joy, right?
00:05:57
Speaker
Or at least for certain equities.
00:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, indeed.
00:05:59
Speaker
So I think Panju touched on Indonesia.
00:06:02
Speaker
So what we are seeing in Indonesia is a few things are turning around.
00:06:06
Speaker
First of all, inflation has stabilized.
00:06:08
Speaker
We have seen rate cuts started in the country.
00:06:12
Speaker
And more importantly, we are seeing increasing domestic income levels from the increase in minimum wage.
00:06:20
Speaker
The free meal program will also help improve household spending capacity.
00:06:25
Speaker
So all these are positive for earnings growth.
00:06:28
Speaker
And growth actually across ASEAN from a company perspective are pretty healthy in a high single digit to double digit range.
00:06:35
Speaker
So let me let me follow up on Indonesia because obviously the largest economy in Southeast Asia is at close to 300 million people.
00:06:40
Speaker
It's 13,000 islands in Indonesia.
00:06:47
Speaker
My wife always jokes, my wife is Indonesian, she always jokes, it's 13,000 islands in the afternoon, in the morning it might be 15,000, because there's a lot of small ones that are just about hovering about the water.
00:06:58
Speaker
So these numbers can change by the day.
00:06:59
Speaker
So let me correct this, it's between 13,000 and 15,000 islands, depending on the time of the day.
00:07:05
Speaker
But Pranjul, you're the lead economist on Indonesia, chief economist on Indonesia, in addition to other economies as well.
00:07:13
Speaker
There is this number, magic number out there, 8%.
00:07:15
Speaker
We have a new president in Indonesia, 8%.
00:07:18
Speaker
The economy is always going 5%.
00:07:20
Speaker
Can they really achieve 8%?
00:07:21
Speaker
What do you think?
00:07:23
Speaker
Oh, it is pretty high.
00:07:24
Speaker
It will take a lot of effort to get there.
00:07:26
Speaker
My sense is that Indonesia needs to start manufacturing a lot more different goods.
00:07:31
Speaker
Currently, almost 50% of its export basket is commodities.
00:07:36
Speaker
It doesn't really get you jobs domestically.
00:07:40
Speaker
You need to start producing more things.
00:07:42
Speaker
Those commodities we're talking about is nickel and stuff they make for battery makers, mostly Chinese battery makers that do that for electric vehicles, correct?
Indonesia's Export Markets and Industry Scaling
00:07:51
Speaker
Exactly, they have a lot of raw materials.
00:07:53
Speaker
The idea is that the big challenge is can they produce more things and move up the value chain and create jobs.
00:07:59
Speaker
And EVs is a great place that they are sort of starting out on.
00:08:04
Speaker
It went a little slower than one would have expected, but it's picked up pace now because there have been a lot of tax incentives.
00:08:10
Speaker
So I think that's one area to watch out for.
00:08:12
Speaker
But eventually they'll have to diversify a lot more, not just EVs.
00:08:17
Speaker
But they have been somewhat successful, right?
00:08:19
Speaker
I remember you mentioning once to me that actually if you look at the exports of Indonesia to the US, that is very different than what they export to China.
00:08:27
Speaker
Is that correct?
00:08:28
Speaker
Exactly, that's right.
00:08:29
Speaker
So if you look at Indonesia's export basket to the US, it looks a lot like Vietnam's export basket to the US.
00:08:35
Speaker
US.
00:08:36
Speaker
You know, furniture, textiles, footwear.
00:08:38
Speaker
It's just that it's all very small.
00:08:40
Speaker
It's like 25% of Vietnam's.
00:08:42
Speaker
It's there, but it needs to be scaled up.
00:08:44
Speaker
And I think that's the big opportunity.
ASEAN's EV Industry and Malaysia's Data Centers
00:08:46
Speaker
And if Indonesia can get that right, I think it can move towards the 8% target.
00:08:51
Speaker
Now, you mentioned electric vehicles.
00:08:52
Speaker
I wanted to ask, Joy, because electric vehicles is a theme across the region, actually.
00:08:57
Speaker
We have Vietnam as major ambitions, Thailand is the Detroit of Asia, as they call it, right?
00:09:04
Speaker
Or used to be, at least, a big automotive economy.
00:09:07
Speaker
What's happening on the EV space in those other economies?
00:09:10
Speaker
Indonesia, of course, big ambitions, but what about the other economies?
00:09:14
Speaker
So we are seeing sort of the Chinese actually being fairly aggressive moving into the ASEAN region.
00:09:20
Speaker
We see BYD cars everywhere in ASEAN.
00:09:23
Speaker
So there is a lot of competition coming from Chinese EV makers.
00:09:28
Speaker
As for the domestic sort of supply chain in Vietnam, I think it's still a concept that has to be proven.
00:09:36
Speaker
There's still a lot of work in progress.
00:09:39
Speaker
There are other industries as well, I think, that are flourishing, right?
00:09:42
Speaker
So, Pranjil was talking that they need to do more on, say, foodware, machinery and these sort of things, and nickel and EV batteries are doing.
00:09:48
Speaker
But in Malaysia, there seems to be a lot going on as well.
00:09:51
Speaker
Can you highlight that a little bit?
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:53
Speaker
Just sort of on that, I think on the supply chain front, we do actually do quite a bit in terms of EVs, in terms of batteries and all those.
00:10:03
Speaker
So we are part and parcel of the supply chain.
00:10:05
Speaker
There's supply also to the Chinese guys.
00:10:08
Speaker
But in Malaysia, what we are seeing is actually across the board, EV supply chain, semi-con supply chain, and also most recently we've seen influx of data centers.
00:10:18
Speaker
So a lot of the US cloud services guys are actually coming to Malaysia, setting up data centers, and we're seeing huge amount of increase.
00:10:27
Speaker
Some of these data centers are incredibly energy intensive, right?
00:10:31
Speaker
So I know that, for example, some of the US companies that even bought stakes or have long term contracts now with nuclear power plants.
00:10:39
Speaker
Is that a bit of an issue?
00:10:40
Speaker
Are they addressing that as well in Malaysia?
00:10:42
Speaker
I think at ASEAN what's interesting is we actually have relatively high reserve ratio.
00:10:48
Speaker
So power generated in the country and power consumed are quite different.
00:10:54
Speaker
So in Malaysia we have about close to 40% of reserve ratio, which is why I think it looks really appealing to data center operator who's actually putting data centers in Malaysia itself.
00:11:07
Speaker
40% reserve ratio means there is 40% excess supply over demand in terms of power.
00:11:13
Speaker
Correct.
00:11:14
Speaker
Which is probably one of the very few economies, I think, that have such a high ratio, at least in Asia.
00:11:20
Speaker
So exciting, exciting themes.
00:11:22
Speaker
ASEAN, we have data centers, we have electric vehicles, right?
00:11:25
Speaker
We're branching out into other industries.
Singapore's Economy and Real Estate
00:11:27
Speaker
Pranju mentioned services even.
00:11:30
Speaker
But maybe it's a good time to take a quick break.
00:11:32
Speaker
And when we come back, we want to talk a little bit about Singapore as well, because we're sitting here in Singapore.
00:11:37
Speaker
And just coming in from the airport, Harold, I'm always just amazed at how this place just keeps changing with every year.
00:11:45
Speaker
You see new buildings sprouting up, the economy's still doing well.
00:11:48
Speaker
So when we come back after break, we talk Singapore.
00:12:00
Speaker
Joey, you are hail from Singapore.
00:12:03
Speaker
You're based here in Singapore.
00:12:06
Speaker
Give us a sense, there's a very open economy, a very small open economy.
00:12:11
Speaker
The currency, of course, is subject to all global trends, etc.
00:12:16
Speaker
US interest rates going up and we have risk of terror.
00:12:20
Speaker
Does Singapore catch that volatility or is Singapore now so robust and resilient and above these types of trends?
00:12:28
Speaker
No, definitely.
00:12:28
Speaker
Singapore is still very small and exposed to global trends.
00:12:32
Speaker
And you know, the funny thing about Singapore is that unlike other countries that tend to have their own interest rate regime, they control their own interest rates.
00:12:40
Speaker
In Singapore, we kind of give that up.
00:12:41
Speaker
And so interest rates just follow the US.
00:12:43
Speaker
So therefore, there's a lot of volatility imported from that angle as well.
00:12:48
Speaker
But what Singapore actually tries to control is the exchange rate.
00:12:52
Speaker
So I think what we've seen recently, or at least over the last 20 odd years, actually not just recently, is that the Singapore dollar tends to appreciate on a trend basis.
00:13:01
Speaker
I mean, there'll be some times when it does not, but generally over the last 20, 30 years, it's been appreciated on a trend basis.
00:13:07
Speaker
And that is how Singapore manages to control inflation, to actually still keep the economy relatively robust, given all the imported content that we have.
00:13:17
Speaker
So it's a very unique exchange rate system that we don't really encounter much and it seems to be working very well for Singapore.
00:13:24
Speaker
But Pranjal, let me ask you, you're an economist, moved here a few years ago to Singapore.
00:13:31
Speaker
Just as an economist moving here, what strikes you the most about Singapore?
00:13:35
Speaker
You know, you moved here from Mumbai.
00:13:39
Speaker
How do you perceive Singapore as an economic miracle?
00:13:42
Speaker
What kind of impresses you the most?
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think the diversity, I think the fact that they're able to attract the best from everywhere, from all of the countries.
00:13:52
Speaker
I think I find that the whole melting pot characteristic of Singapore, you know, very attractive.
00:13:58
Speaker
And what is sort of the cherry on the cake for me is the location, the fact that it's got all these amazing places, the rest of ASEAN all around it.
00:14:06
Speaker
And, you know, you can just hop on into a flight and take like lots
Vietnam's Currency and Thailand's Tourism Economy
00:14:10
Speaker
of holidays literally every weekend, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam,
00:14:14
Speaker
I think that's pretty exciting.
00:14:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's in the heart of ASEAN.
00:14:18
Speaker
But, Joy, if I wanted to move here, could I even afford an apartment?
00:14:21
Speaker
What's going on with real estate prices?
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, property is a hot topic and it is coming up in dinner table, coffee table, everywhere.
00:14:32
Speaker
Property price has gone up 4% in the country last year.
00:14:35
Speaker
This is despite the interest rate environment we're in.
00:14:39
Speaker
There is a very strong... How can it go up 4%?
00:14:43
Speaker
Who's buying it?
00:14:44
Speaker
Is it wealth here domestically?
00:14:47
Speaker
Don't forget Singapore actually charges 60% for foreigners who actually buy the property in Singapore.
00:14:52
Speaker
So there is an additional buy stamp duty.
00:14:55
Speaker
But what about people like Franjul who just came here?
00:14:58
Speaker
They would be able to buy it as long as you... No, she needs to pay 60% more than Joanne and myself.
00:15:04
Speaker
Yeah, so I think there are actually a lot of first-time buyers.
00:15:09
Speaker
We've seen both sort of HDB upgrade, what we call HDB upgrade.
00:15:15
Speaker
What is HDB?
00:15:16
Speaker
Sorry, what is that?
00:15:16
Speaker
So it's the housing development board, it's the government housing.
00:15:20
Speaker
80% of Singaporean actually stays in HDB.
00:15:22
Speaker
But as people progress, we see people progress from HDB to private.
00:15:28
Speaker
We've seen a lot of upgraders actually
00:15:31
Speaker
going into the private markets in the last few years.
00:15:34
Speaker
And yeah, they're driving up the price.
00:15:37
Speaker
So Singapore property is now more expensive even, I think, than Hong Kong, correct?
00:15:41
Speaker
On an absolute basis, no.
00:15:43
Speaker
Hong Kong still is still higher.
00:15:46
Speaker
But I think, you know, what Singapore offers is the size of the apartment is still bigger than Hong Kong.
00:15:52
Speaker
So it is affordable living in... No surprise there.
00:15:54
Speaker
I think, Joy, you answered my question.
00:15:57
Speaker
I cannot afford here.
00:15:59
Speaker
60%.
00:15:59
Speaker
Could you buy it and sell it to me at a 30% discount?
00:16:03
Speaker
Is that how it works?
00:16:04
Speaker
No, it doesn't.
00:16:05
Speaker
That wouldn't work.
00:16:06
Speaker
That doesn't apply.
00:16:06
Speaker
So I thought we could make a deal here under the banyan tree, but no.
00:16:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:11
Speaker
Well, we talked about Singapore, we talked about Indonesia.
00:16:13
Speaker
Let's move a bit further north.
00:16:16
Speaker
We have two economies interesting, Thailand and Vietnam.
00:16:19
Speaker
Vietnam being, of course, enormous development success in recent years.
00:16:26
Speaker
Joey, let me ask you, that's a frontier market as we used to think about this.
00:16:32
Speaker
The exchange rate is very stable, but the economy is growing.
00:16:36
Speaker
Do you see more liquidity coming into the market?
00:16:39
Speaker
Is the exchange rate kind of maturing?
00:16:41
Speaker
Is it something that you see international investors taking positions in, or is it still one of the more niche kind of currencies across Asia?
00:16:50
Speaker
I think in terms of the capital market is still quite small.
00:16:53
Speaker
So it's very hard for foreigners to invest in portfolio assets like equities or bonds.
00:16:59
Speaker
So a lot of the interest in the currency is still coming from corporates.
00:17:03
Speaker
And I think the unique thing about Vietnam is that even though they actually have a lot of exports, a lot of trade surplus, a lot of it is owned by foreign companies, MNCs.
00:17:12
Speaker
And so therefore, they always have this
00:17:14
Speaker
requirement or demand to repatriate their profits back to their home countries.
00:17:19
Speaker
That generates constant FX demand.
00:17:22
Speaker
And so dollar dong, the V&D currency, the Vietnam currency, remains on a bit of a depreciation trend as of recently.
ASEAN's Tourism Boom and Service Sector
00:17:30
Speaker
I think in equities we've seen an initial inflow, but maybe Joy, you know this, but it looks like holdings in Vietnam have come off a little bit over the last couple of years, correct?
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah, we've seen a bit of fluctuation.
00:17:43
Speaker
We had a change in presidencies.
00:17:46
Speaker
So that has created some volatilities in the market.
00:17:49
Speaker
There is a little bit of stress in the real estate markets and the lending markets.
00:17:54
Speaker
So all these has added pressure on equities.
00:17:58
Speaker
But we are seeing things being resolved over the last few years.
00:18:01
Speaker
And we think that momentum will continue into 2025.
00:18:05
Speaker
And the other economy I just mentioned, Thailand, actually, is perhaps less of a manufacturing kind of story compared to Vietnam, but it's a services still story with a lot of tourism.
00:18:16
Speaker
And I gotta ask you, Pranjul, I hear the hottest ticket in town right now is for Indians to celebrate their weddings in Thailand.
00:18:23
Speaker
And I don't know how many tens of millions of Indians get married every year, but if only a fraction of them do it on the Thai beach, that should be great for the Thai economy.
00:18:32
Speaker
Have you seen that trend?
00:18:35
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:18:36
Speaker
I can actually see it in India's balance of payments, where a lot of money is leaving India and going to countries like Thailand, where Indians want to go and get married or want to go on holiday.
00:18:46
Speaker
And actually, Indian tourism and people leaving India and being curious about the rest of the world has really been something which has been good for global tourism over the last couple of years.
00:18:58
Speaker
But on the topic of services, I think it's very interesting, Fred, that we always think about Asia as this manufacturing hub in the world.
00:19:06
Speaker
But I think what's also rising on the side is services, like tourism services in Thailand, financial services exports from Singapore.
00:19:15
Speaker
Medical services.
00:19:17
Speaker
medical services from the Philippines, light asset sales, you know, Philippines photographers, musicians all around the world like selling services.
00:19:26
Speaker
I think that's a very important story of growth and resilience as well because the world might be de-globalizing in goods trade but it continues to globalize in services trade.
00:19:36
Speaker
and maybe this is a good note to end on because it brings us back to very beginning why is ASEAN so resilient despite these headlines you can see out of Washington DC and all the worries we have in the world economy it's so diverse isn't it Harold we have Indonesia we get electric vehicles and natural resources we have data centers we have Philippine musicians and we have everybody in India celebrating their wedding on a Thai beach and no I
00:20:05
Speaker
you know I like history, so I'm gonna go back about 1500 years now.
Historical Trade and Cultural Exchanges in ASEAN
00:20:09
Speaker
And in those days you had Indian monks traveling to Thailand and Indonesia, not just to get married, monks typically didn't do that, but more to build temples and stuff.
00:20:20
Speaker
You had Chinese traders here, they actually outsourced
00:20:24
Speaker
to a large extent the production of iron, of tin, to Malaysia, to Singapore was kind of a small sort of place here.
00:20:31
Speaker
The property price is much lower in those days I presume as well.
00:20:36
Speaker
So what we actually see now is to a certain extent there's always been a constant in this region.
00:20:40
Speaker
There's a vibrant region that connects India, China and its own sort of large population and that in itself creates some sort of dynamic or momentum I guess that
00:20:50
Speaker
Harold, the region is as vibrant as the colors on your shirt.
00:20:55
Speaker
Unfortunately, it's an audio-only podcast, but if the audience could see it, it's just an automation of colors.
00:21:03
Speaker
It's a mosaic.
00:21:05
Speaker
Southeast Asia, the diversity, I think, is a strength.
00:21:07
Speaker
And we want to really ask our fantastic panel here today.
00:21:12
Speaker
Joy, Joey and Pranju.
00:21:14
Speaker
Thank you very much.
00:21:15
Speaker
And thank you everybody for joining us.
00:21:17
Speaker
You can subscribe everywhere where you get your podcast.
00:21:20
Speaker
That'd be Apple, that'd be Spotify and everywhere else in between.
00:21:24
Speaker
Any other place where you download your podcast.
00:21:25
Speaker
Yes.
00:21:26
Speaker
See you again next week.
00:21:27
Speaker
See you next week.
00:21:27
Speaker
Thank you.
00:21:28
Speaker
Cheers.
00:22:01
Speaker
Thank you for joining us at HSBC Global Viewpoint.
00:22:05
Speaker
We hope you enjoyed the discussion.
00:22:07
Speaker
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