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The Sounders floundered and got completely gutted
1 Playsin 8 hours
Aaron joins Jeremiah to spend yet more time talking about the horrific loss to the Timbers, a 1-5 boat race around Lumen Field. The guys make a plea to the Sounders leadership that this defeat serves as a wakeup call to the organization as a whole or else there might be a genuine fan revolt.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go.
00:00:11
Speaker
Come on. Hey, O'Shaughness. Let's The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winners. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Ooch of a gooch! All creatures, great and small! Rothrock gonna collect it, he does about, runs into the advertising order. Low to our left, ball goes in! Oh, what cross! And what goal! Where's my copy? got bunch of them in the car. How many do you cost them? 50 bucks.
00:01:08
Speaker
I'll deadline you.
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:44
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Adientes on the Sounder at Heart Podcast
Sounders' Recent Performance Issues
00:01:48
Speaker
Network. Today is Monday, July 20th, and we are recording after... This is the Monday after one of... No, um forget it. It's the Monday after the worst game. So we've been, in Sounders history, we've been sitting on this for four days.
00:02:06
Speaker
Hopefully you know, I recorded, me and Nico, Nico and I recorded a podcast right after in which we did a lot of unloading, But four days later, it's still pretty raw.
00:02:17
Speaker
ah Aaron and I were just talking in the pregame for, i don't know, 15 minutes. Yeah. And I realized like we should be recording a podcast because that's what we came to do. So, Aaron, welcome.
00:02:30
Speaker
Welcome back. I'm so glad that we get to finally discuss a game. And this is the game we get to discuss. Yeah, yeah, it feels great. um That really kind of sums up the whole vibe around the game, right? Like we waited for so long. Everybody was so excited. Biggest crowd since what? Since 2022? No, not 2020.
00:02:47
Speaker
no not twenty twenty It's the biggest league crowd since 2024. But one of the biggest crowds since COVID for sure. Like a top five league game crowd since COVID.
00:02:57
Speaker
Right. ah the vibes felt really good in the stadium. People, you know, I got chills on the field. I was on the field. I got chills. Yeah. People had great expectations for it. Last game on the grass, ah you know, a chance to erase any lingering bad feelings about the way the, the things were going before the break. And then they go out and do that. And it's, you know, i I've watched the Sounders lose at home to the Timbers.
00:03:22
Speaker
I've watched the Sounders lose at home pretty lopsidedly to the Timbers. Yeah. That was something completely different. I mean, that was yeah maybe the worst performance that I have ever seen from the Sounders in in a league game. I think the way I described it to you was it was like a 2011 CCL game where one team looked like they were a much more talented team in midseason form.
00:03:45
Speaker
And that was the Timbers who are not a more talented team. who are not anywhere closer to mid season than the Sounders are. and But that, that's how it felt. It just felt. So the field felt so tilted towards the Timbers and yeah, I'm still pretty upset about it.
00:04:00
Speaker
And I'm, I'm, I think there's plenty of blame to go around. I don't think this is, I think, There's been a lot of focus on whatever thing is the thing you're most pissed off about. this you know The Sounders organization right now is where the IR is focused, and I totally understand that. But I i think as we talk through this, you know we're going to come to the conclusion that actually we can be pissed off at at a lot of different things yeah as a result of this one.
00:04:23
Speaker
we can walk and chew gum. Right. And we're all out gum, I guess. I don't know. That's not the saying, but, um, it was, should say also thank you to our sponsor football wines. Uh, I, I, I, I free, I like freestyle the intro, which I usually don't do on our show.
00:04:39
Speaker
And so of course I left that out, but anyway, thanks, uh, Paul for sponsoring the, this wonderful podcast. But, uh, it was, i think, if we if we want to get it into it, the worst performance, at least since the infamous refund game of 2010, as you probably remember, the centers lost that game four zero.
00:05:00
Speaker
And I'm actually looking at the box score of it right now. You're really similar. You're really similar. ah Jovan, Jovan Karofsky scored in the 22nd minute. was only one zero at halftime. And then between the and 67th minutes,
00:05:14
Speaker
the galaxy scored three more goals. And it was such a bad performance that after the game, Joe Roth promised fans that they could have a refund. And then the sounders spent basically the better part of the next year to figuring out how to actually give refunds. Cause they didn't actually give you your, you got a credit back on your way. They ended up doing it was you got a credit on your season ticket account. And there was all these debates as to whether whether that counted or not. And,
00:05:41
Speaker
And I think most of the people in the organization felt like that was a mistake and they they shouldn't have done it. And they probably were right. They were. they were definitely right Yeah. and And the reason was because they and then but, you know, amazingly, they had avoided another four zero loss at home since that game.
00:05:57
Speaker
It had been 16 years since the Sounders had lost by four goals at home. and And, I got to tell you, I think people, i don't know if people would have appreciated it. Cause I don't know if people were in a mood to appreciate anything.
00:06:12
Speaker
but it would have been something to give like to, for someone to come out from the front office and just say, this was unacceptable. Look, we're not going to give you a refund, but we understand that we have to be better. And all we could do is show you that we're going be better.
00:06:26
Speaker
So hopefully we beat Austin on Wednesday or whatever, but we haven't heard anything from the front office. I actually, I'm not, I guess I'm not shocked by that. And I don't, and I don't know if I really blame them because on some level, the thinking is what can we really say?
00:06:39
Speaker
Because look We shit the bed and this is it's up to us to clean it up. Like we have to, as the team, we we have to show that we are capable of cleaning it up.
00:06:51
Speaker
But the other reality is that they don't play a home game for, they have their next four games on the road, three league games. And then a league's cup game is to Luke on the road. It could get really ugly. Like really, really ugly.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, it really could. i mean, and, and beyond like, front office not coming out and saying anything. i guess there's a possibility at training. Somebody will show up and say something. Sounders have not posted on Instagram since pregame. Sounders have not posted Blue Sky since pregame. I don't know. I don't know how active they're not on Twitter either. I checked.
00:07:22
Speaker
I checked. They did did not post on Twitter. That's that's loser shit, man. That is loser shit. Oh, it was the score. Post the score. Well, they did. boss the score them happen they They posted the score. i think they did not post the score on Instagram.
00:07:37
Speaker
Okay, they did post it on Blue Sky at least. They think they posted it on Twitter. But they, yeah, it is loser shit. and yeah And just to sort of make matters worse. And I don't necessarily, again...
00:07:48
Speaker
I don't blame them so much for this, but it is optically awful to then the next morning people to wake up to, oh by the way, those two international roster spots that we've been holding on to, we traded those for 250,000 in GAM each. So we got 500,000 more of GAM, which isn't a player.
00:08:10
Speaker
Right. And of course those, yeah those trades were made before Friday, but they had, they had no, and they didn't actually even, they waited to announce them until the receiving teams
Critique of Management and Spending
00:08:22
Speaker
announced them. And they were like, our, I don't think the sounders actually made the announcement until hours after, because I think our post beat, beat them to it.
00:08:30
Speaker
ah And so it does sort of give off this. Oh, and then by the way, just to throw one more, log on the fire it comes out that daryl dk has signed with orlando city and the sounders had the discovery rights on him so they're getting 75 000 in gam right maybe another 75 after that uh so here at the very least what the sounders have done purposefully or not is they've set the bar now look daryl dk is what we could have had theoretically yeah Yeah. And I personally think that that's going to end up being a bullet dodge, but it still doesn't look great, you know? And ah I think it's, I think the lack of any sort of statement, any sort of acknowledgement of anything that's happened is part of a trend with the Sounders over the last few years where Adrian used to be a guy that talked in the media all the time.
00:09:20
Speaker
Haven't heard a peep from him, right? Craig had some media availability a few weeks ago. That was the first time in how long he's had any media availability. A long time. a long time You know, and and that was when the Sounders hadn't played for a while. Right. And they and they didn't have any games on the horizon. Like it was at a very convenient time, I feel like. So, um yeah, I mean, this this club sold people on a vision for a different kind of club. Right.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah. And they lived up to that for a very long time and people bought in and they have not been living up to that. But the people are still there. People are still coming out. Yes. Attendance is down. it's still second in MLS. It's still, you know, over 30,000 at most games. And also miss me with the, Oh, but butts in seats aren't as high. Like, trust me, there's more butts. I would be willing to bet almost anything that the Sounders are second in butts in seats in MLS, just as like they are second. they Hell, they might be first because first is Atlanta and watch of Atlanta game.
00:10:20
Speaker
There are a lot of empty seats in Atlanta, right? But go on. I'm sorry. I got you off. Well, and also the checks are clearing, right? Like you can do give backs for credits and everything, but the sounders have the money. It's in the bank account, collect an interest, right?
00:10:33
Speaker
People are still bought in, you know, and this, and and the club is not living up to any of the stuff that they have said that they were going to do to differentiate themselves. You know, like we don't have the same level of transparency. Right.
00:10:47
Speaker
We don't have the efforts to be a big, ambitious club. And I don't just mean on the field stuff. I mean, off the field stuff as well. The game day presentation is not what it used to be. The game day environment isn't what it used to be.
00:10:59
Speaker
Instead of, you know, 10 years ago, Adrian talking about like, yeah, we think we can fill this whole stadium one day. They're talking about moving to the suburbs to a 20,000 seat stadium and saying like, well, the train station's right there.
00:11:11
Speaker
It's just, it's not what people were promised and they're taking the the fan base for granted. And this game is an example of why you can't afford to do that indefinitely, because something like this is going to happen and people are going to get fed up with it. Like stuff like this is very frequently a turning point in people's fandom. I know this is somebody that used to be a diehard Mariners fan.
00:11:35
Speaker
People have their limits, right? We're not as bad as the Mariners were when I gave up on them, but. for you know, for some people, this is probably enough, right? So how are you going to respond?
00:11:47
Speaker
Maybe going radio silent for four or five days is not the best way to respond. Yeah. I mean, like your to your point, the Sounders have been far more transparent in the past. They had much bigger ambitions than they were in the past. i All of this has sort of caused people to dig up some old stuff. I just want to read something from a quote that Adrian Hanauer gave in 2015.
00:12:10
Speaker
And it was back when the Sounders renewed their lease at Lumen Field. I believe it was the first time their lease had been up. And there was some discussion about them maybe building their own stadium. There had been some discussion even of them building a stadium at where is now Memorial Stadium or what used to be Memorial Stadium, which will soon again be Memorial Stadium.
00:12:30
Speaker
But anyway, he says, look, this is he what he told to the Everett Herald. Look, every sporting franchise on the planet dreams of their own facility, and we're not different. But the little bits we poked around over the years made us realize that, first off, from a location and amenity standpoint, CenturyLink Field is where we want to be. it used to be called CenturyLink Field, in case you forgot.
00:12:49
Speaker
And secondly, building, this is where it's good and build. And secondly, building whatever size stadium we might decide. And thank goodness we didn't build a 20,000 seat stadium in the suburbs seven years ago. Yeah.
00:13:01
Speaker
Just the cost of the stadium was going to be too much to overcome. We wouldn't want, didn't want to go to the public looking for money. And then another quote in there, he says, and we think we can continue to grow into century link. We think we run our business right. We can average 50 or 55,000 fans and eventually 67,000 fans each game.
00:13:16
Speaker
sixty seven thousand fans at each game So the idea that it somehow made sense to build another stadium that holds 50,000, that's
Fan Expectations and GM Retention Vote
00:13:23
Speaker
expandable to 65,000, justified logic to a large degree. Don't get me wrong. We'd love to have a grass field, but spending 500 to $700 million dollars just to have a grass field doesn't make sense.
00:13:33
Speaker
Right. and And I know that the justification for not caring about filling the stadium anymore is like, well, um MLS takes a huge chunk of the money. That's not the point. don't know they've never used, by the way, they've never used that as I'm sure. That's like people have speculated on. I don't even know if that's like how much of that is a real like deterrent.
00:13:54
Speaker
Right. I think it just got hard. I think. I mean, it got hard. Exactly. Got hard. Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. But, you know, one thing, and this is something that I think is going to get a lot of attention in the next, you know, the transfer window is open for about six more weeks.
00:14:12
Speaker
And i I am in the process of trying to write a column in which I talk about this. So ah forgive me if you have already read me saying some version of this. But ah there is a big vote coming up this summer or in the fall.
00:14:30
Speaker
Every four years, or it's not every four years, but every the fourth year of every GM's tenure, they're up for a public vote. And this is the year that Craig Weibel is up for a retention of ah a confidence, no confidence vote from the from the Alliance.
00:14:48
Speaker
That means anyone that is a member of the Alliance, that's all the season ticket holders, that's people who they can buy an Alliance membership if they want to without even being a season ticket holder. They get a vote on whether or not Craig Weibel keeps his job.
00:15:01
Speaker
And I'm not going to sit here and throw Craig Weibel under the bus and say it's all Craig Weibel's fault. I know a lot of people would love me to do that. And I actually think Craig has done a reasonably good job given the constraints that he's on.
00:15:12
Speaker
But what I can't do is defend the idea that he deserves to be retained if we go another summer without making a notable move, because it's not so much about him. It's about sending. i think what's what we're to hear a lot from people is it's not about Craig. It's about sending a message to ownership.
00:15:32
Speaker
And I don't know that this is the most effective thing to do or the most productive thing to do. but I do think there's going to be a big movement to vote no confidence in the GM.
00:15:44
Speaker
And it's not fair to Craig, I don't think, but he's going end up being the one that takes the bullet on this. And, and it may or may not reach quorum. it may or may not pass, but it's going to be a much closer vote than it's ever been. And and and ah if if if the Sounders don't do anything this summer.
00:16:03
Speaker
And I think that may be true, even if they're doing okay standings wise, like even if this is turns out to be a blip on the screen in terms of the way they're playing. I think people are just getting to the point where they are just fed up with the same old thing.
00:16:17
Speaker
And this is the one tool that fans have other than saying, I'm not going renew my season tickets in I'm sure there's, I've been hearing this a lot. I don't know how common it is, but I know there's a lot of fans saying like, I'm not renewing my season tickets until I start seeing some action.
00:16:31
Speaker
And I don't necessarily think that's, ah I don't think that's a particularly likely tool that a lot of people are going exercise. Like they're going to make their decision based on something else.
00:16:42
Speaker
But this vote is a real thing that has some real potential to be a major, major black eye, if nothing else for the Sounders.
Player and Team Performance Analysis
00:16:51
Speaker
And I am not, I don't even know. I like, again, I just hope that there's some rethinking in the front office about what the budget is, because I think that's where it starts. It starts at the budget making process.
00:17:03
Speaker
There is not money in the budget, as far as I know, to make a real impact signing. And hopefully this result got some people's attentions and said like, OK, look, we can't just keep plugging along.
00:17:14
Speaker
And again, it's not even about if they had signed a DP number nine that probably wouldn't have avoided this result. But there's just this total malaise, I think, that has started to seep in. And the lack of outside signings is a really good avatar for that malaise or the cause of that malaise.
00:17:34
Speaker
I think sometimes you want to feel like ownership is trying, right? Right, exactly. i mean, what like what are you going to do? go like Go into the locker room and and yell at Snyder Brunel or whatever? Yeah.
00:17:47
Speaker
yeah i I guess you're going to send him out in front of the media. I guess he's going to be the the guy that has to do that. Yeah, of course. But like, you know, I'm not saying that they need to go and buy out a DP.
00:17:58
Speaker
I'm not, i i I guess I wouldn't be opposed, i I suppose, or trade a DP or do whatever, but it's been so long since they have spent meaningful money.
00:18:09
Speaker
Yes, they bought PDLV and, and, you know, before the 2024 season. Great. That was a, reasonably affordable transfer, ah and it hasn't worked out so far, guess what? Like, sometimes moves like that aren't going to work out, and you're going to have to eat $6 million dollars and not get what you were hoping for.
00:18:28
Speaker
That's being the owner of a team. that's That's part of what goes along with it. A team that has... increased in value from from what was the the original million dollars to a million roughly a billion dollars now right right so there's money there right i get that you want to run it it you know in the black year over year and that they lost money during covid
00:18:53
Speaker
The franchise value has increased by like $970 million dollars over over time. which is Which is a lot of money, actually. It's a lot of money. It is a lot of money.
00:19:05
Speaker
And they've never done a capital car with owners, as far as I know. As far as I know, that is correct. um These are very rich people that are in the ownership group.
00:19:16
Speaker
I know that Adrian, as the majority owner, is not super wealthy by MLS owner standards, but the resources are there to go make a signing. And i think generally Adrian could point to the fact that, you know, the Sounders are in the playoffs every year.
00:19:33
Speaker
They, they won a continental trophy last year. They've made deep playoff runs. They've been really good at producing players from the Academy and their strategy has worked. And, and look at all of these DPs that have gone for big money and then, you know, bust or haven't been impactful. We just don't think the return on investment is there.
00:19:53
Speaker
And then you go out and you lose 5-1 at home to the Timbers. Right. And that just becomes a much less compelling case. Right. and And I think even when you could plausibly make that case, there's still a reasonable counterpoint of, but this is the entertainment business.
00:20:09
Speaker
Right. Exactly. But now you've got, this is the entertainment business. And also all of our kids got totally horribly exposed against a pretty bad Portland team at home.
00:20:20
Speaker
Yeah. And I think what's, you know, and I guess this gets back to, you know, getting down to what really happened on Thursday. And I think one of the things that is the most frustrating and the most baffling is that it would be one thing if the Tacoma defiance got run through like that or, you The Sounders just had, you know, they were missing like all their starters for it was a rotated game or guys just needed rest. They were they were too tired or whatever. This is in the middle of a really busy stretch.
00:20:51
Speaker
No, it was coming off a seven week break from games and they had probably eight of their normal starters, seven or eight, depending on how you want to count it of their normal starters were in this game.
00:21:03
Speaker
And the guys that you would expect to step up and lead guys like knew who, who by the way had the captain's armband looked like absolute crap. Jackson Reagan looked like absolute crap. This is a guy who just got, who made it to the all-star team looked completely out of his depth. Somehow Tino Lopez. Look, I'm not going to beat him up too much because he's one of the lowest paid players on the team, but he has looked great in a lot of outings. He looked like absolute crap in this game.
00:21:32
Speaker
Kalani Kosarienzi, another player who he has played a lot for the Sounders. He looked, he's looked really good at times. He got totally exposed for all of his weaknesses in this game.
00:21:43
Speaker
Uh, Hassani Dotson, people are saying he was the worst player. I don't agree. i thought he was maybe the least in some ways, bad player. He was not good.
00:21:55
Speaker
i don't want to overstate things, but I did not think he was quite as bad as people were making out to me. But, He was not, you know, he he was a veteran that you should be able to rely on and he was not reliable in this game. Snyder Burnell has looked absolutely amazing. He's someone who we have talked about having a higher ceiling than Obed Vargas looked like absolute crap.
00:22:14
Speaker
Jesus Ferreira actually thought looked okay at times. Paul Rothrock looked okay at times. Albert Rusnak, for the most part, looked like crap. He had a couple decent plays on set pieces where he looked better, but he was way too inactive. He was a non-presence on defense.
00:22:31
Speaker
He was not doing enough to get on the ball. Basically looked like crap. Jordan Morris, the starting forward, he had five touches in the first half. I have to assume he picked up his injury way before the half, but he looked like total. He looked so bad that it's completely making me rethink what i thought he was as a player because if that's what he's capable of right now they they need to get out of the jordan moore's business asap because he looked absolutely dead in this game he looked unrecognizable i mean it's no secret that i have been a huge supporter and defender of jordan he's my ease yeah favorite sounders player of all time uh
00:23:13
Speaker
I have to for my own mental well-being. i have to assume he got injured like five minutes into the game. okay Right. And if if not like I saw him six weeks ago play it.
00:23:26
Speaker
And he didn't look like that. Right. So if he didn't get what, what were they doing over the break? If he didn't get hurt. That is a great, that is a great question because it's, it defies logic that they looked this slow.
00:23:40
Speaker
And if you go back and you look at the goals that they gave up, how easy all the goals were, they, they, they They're just bouncing off tackles. There's guys ghosting into space.
00:23:51
Speaker
There are unmarked players. There are ah easily converted passes. The press was non-existent. It just, i it this is not, it was unrecognizable to even what we've seen from the Sounders at their worst this year. Like, where did this performance come from?
00:24:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we've we've been, I think, very critical of the front office so far. i think it's very fair to ask questions of Ryan Schmetzer and getting this team prepared for this game. That team did not look like a team that was up to play.
00:24:22
Speaker
Who's the most Montreal, right? Let alone the Timbers, let alone the Timbers, let alone coming off a six week break, trying to capitalize on some enthusiasm for soccer, a nice big crowd on ah on a Thursday night.
00:24:37
Speaker
They looked less prepared than I may have maybe ever seen them look. Certainly during the Brian's years. And Brian gets a ah hugely long leash with me, right? Because stuff like this just has not happened under him, but it clearly happened in this game.
00:24:52
Speaker
Tactically, they they looked totally incoherent, didn't look like there was a real cohesive plan. The Timbers looked like they knew exactly what they were going to do and exploited them and there were no adjustments.
00:25:05
Speaker
Everybody, like you said, looked slow, looked unprepared. They, and in large part, looked like they had never played together. And You know, as we all know, the Sounders don't have a ton of turnover. So these guys have definitely played together. Right.
00:25:18
Speaker
And it's just it it defies logic. Right. Especially when Brian came out and made a pretty emphatic statement right before the game about how prepared they were and how ready they were to play. Yeah. And how he doesn't have to give any big speeches because the guys know no what's on the line here.
00:25:33
Speaker
And it, it looked unfortunately eerily similar to the way the U S played against Belgium in yeah that game. And I'm not the first person to make that comparison, but it happened on the same pitch.
00:25:44
Speaker
It was the last time, ah you know, local soccer fans saw a team they were rooting for most likely. And so the comparisons are apt. Uh, I just wanted to throw a stat out there real fast because it's something that we haven't talked about a ton, but look,
00:25:59
Speaker
We have oftentimes defended the idea that the so the the Sounders do not have to spend a ton of money in order to be competitive. Because that's what and MLS has set up. A you ah ah system where you don't necessarily need to be among the highest spenders. In fact, there's almost no correlation to spending and winning.
00:26:21
Speaker
Sounder at Heart has been around in one form or another since 2009. In 2026, though, we make a pretty significant evolution when we go analog. Yes, that's right. In the year of our Lord, 2026, we are publishing a real life magazine. We're calling this thing 4, as in Sounder at Heart 4.0. But we're stylizing it as IV because we absolutely love Roman numeral. And if you want to refer to it as IV, that's cool too. The first issue has a comic book style cover that was hand drawn by local artist Kevin Newberg. Features by Tim Foss, Susie Rance, and Charlie Boehm. A statistical deep dive by Kat Bush. A Q&A with b Brian Schmetzer. A column by G. Willow Wilson. And photographs by Noah Reif, Max Aquino, Mike Russell, and Jane Gershowitz.
00:27:04
Speaker
I could not possibly be more proud of the work everyone put into making this, and I think you're going to absolutely love it. If you'd like to get your hands on one of these limited edition copies, we're currently selling them for $15 on our website. Get yours now.
00:27:17
Speaker
But there's this idea that you have to sort of stay in a certain range to be competitive. And the Sounders on their salary basis have done that for the most part. Like, even though I think they're 19th or something in spend, the distance between them and 10th is, you know, pretty marginal. And it's like really how much you're paying your designated players.
00:27:35
Speaker
So I don't get too wrapped up in stuff like that. But there's a pretty illustrative stat. And we have talked about this before. This is not something that we've never talked about. So save it. But... it is a This is like a pretty good illustration of the problem.
00:27:48
Speaker
So if you go into transfer market, you can look at a ah range of dates as to how much money each team has spent. And basically, since the start of the 2022 season, the Sounders have spent about, call it $9 million dollars in transfer fees. And that, by the way, includes money that they've spent in GAM. That's not just cash. That's including GAM trades.
00:28:10
Speaker
That is... The lowest amount in the 30 team league. And by the way, there are a couple teams that have not played in all of those seasons.
00:28:21
Speaker
ah And the next they're they've spent more than three million dollars less than the next lowest spending team. And that's the Vancouver Whitecaps. And look, that's just too big of a gap. But then look, even go beyond that.
00:28:36
Speaker
It's another 3 million to the 28th team. And then another 2 million to the 27th
Fan Sentiments and Calls for Transparency
00:28:41
Speaker
team. The Sounders down at 30 have spent about a third as much as 18th highest spending team.
00:28:57
Speaker
Right. They have spent a third as much as the 18th highest spending. That is a insane spending gap that it is that, that you just can't like, look, the centers, I'm not going to say here and say they need to be the highest spending team. not paying to say they have to be a top 10 spending team, but you can't get lapped three times by the 18th highest spending team in transfer fees.
00:29:20
Speaker
That is an outrageous amount of, of money that you are just refusing to spend on transfer fees. Yeah, it's it's crazy. and And Vancouver, the next lowest spending team, has a guy making a ton of money on the team.
00:29:35
Speaker
That has raised their ceiling quite a bit, I'll add. I mean, they they were a very good team before Miller got there. They are the best team in the league running away now with him there.
00:29:47
Speaker
And if the Sounders had spent the same amount of money on transfer fees, but they had ah like three DPs making $4 million dollars producing at that level, I would not really care as much, but they're they've got a middle of the pack salary team. They're not paying their DPs very much.
00:30:03
Speaker
Their DPs aren't producing, which is the most important thing. If PDLV were were healthy, if Jordan were healthy, if if Albert were healthy, because they're they're all hurt, I think it's it's fair to say, and they were all producing as much as we know they can. I don't think anybody would care, but they're not. And the problem is that we know they're not going to do anything to fix it.
00:30:21
Speaker
We know they're not getting really, i think it's, it's not so much the spend right now. I think that's driving people crazy. It's that we like you and I, I think for a long time, we're pretty adamant that look, the sounders aren't spending, but it's because they have all they've, instead of spending on transfer fees, what they've done is they've signed Ladero to extensions. They've signed Rui Diaz to extensions.
00:30:44
Speaker
They've signed Rue snack to extensions. Like they, they, you know, it's like you can argue that these were, maybe ill-fated moves, but they made sense when they did them. And I think you can say the same thing about the Jordan Morris extension.
00:30:56
Speaker
Like, it's now looking pretty bad, but at the time... You know, you got to go back to 2022, I believe, after the 2022 season, when he signed his contract going into the 23 season.
00:31:09
Speaker
He was good in 23 and 24 before he hit his escalator for, you know, in that made him a DP in 25. So the Sounders got two non-DP seasons out of him. And then he produced like a DP, and so they had to pay him like a DP. Like, I'm not going to get worked up over that.
00:31:24
Speaker
But what I think really drives people crazy is that it's like, okay, so you made this mistake. at least when you, when when you're out of that contract, or maybe you can get yourself out of that contract, you're going go and spend more money.
00:31:37
Speaker
And there's just no indication that the Sounders are interested in spending that money. And that's where it starts. right That's where people I think really start to lose their minds of like, what are we investing in here as fans? Like if we, it's all fine and good for you to tell me that you don't think transfer fees are equated to points, but,
00:31:54
Speaker
we are, our cost of going to games is going up all the time. Where is that money going? Like the center has got $10 million dollars in cash winnings last year from the club world cup and leagues cup and everything else.
00:32:07
Speaker
Where did that money go? Cause it apparently didn't go back into investing in the team. And I think that's where people start to really get frustrated. And that's, and that's all sort of window dressing. I mean, look,
00:32:18
Speaker
The game this week was bad. It was really bad. It was the worst game. But I think what happens is that gets piled on to all this other frustration that's been building and building and building over time.
00:32:29
Speaker
And you end up creating this sort of toxic environment, which is where we are right now. And I don't blame people for being really upset. They're upset with us. They're upset with the Sounders. They're upset with everybody because it's just not the way it's supposed to be.
00:32:43
Speaker
No, it's not. and And in addition to the prize money, right, in addition to to all of that, they've sold a bunch of guys. They sold Obed Vargas. They sold Josh Atencio. They sold Reed Baker Whiting. Danny Leva.
00:32:58
Speaker
Just sold Cody Baker. Right. Like you're moving these guys. And look, I don't have any problem with any of That's the thing. Every move that they make, like you said, makes sense in isolation.
00:33:10
Speaker
But they are completely unwilling to change course at all with anything they're doing. It's just like, well, the Academy is for, you know, the guys that can break through, break through. And then the other guys, we move on.
00:33:20
Speaker
OK, what's part two of that? Like the IACS model is not just selling guys. It is selling guys and then going out and buying impact players to put your team over the top with the money that you make. It's not just selling the dudes. That's the, we don't know whose model that is because they play in like the third division somewhere and they have this great academy and it's the only way they can stay in business. Is that really what you want to be?
00:33:42
Speaker
Well, and I think that's the other thing is that we've had some people sort of bring this up that it's like championship rosters aren't built just with homegrown players. And that's right. No championship roster is built just with homegrown players, but the homegrown players are supposed to be a foundation that you can then supplement with better players. Like that you still are going out and signing DPs. You're not just promoting guys from within. And sure, if a if you if you happen to have your franchise all-time leading scorer and he ends up being a DP, you can live with that. But you got have two other guys who are from outside the organization who are lighting it up.
00:34:21
Speaker
And hey, i on some level, I think Pedro de la Vega was actually a pretty good gamble. Like when he's healthy, yeah you can see why the Sounders felt like they were getting a bargain. But when he's not healthy, you have to that that puts a lot more pressure on what you're what else you're doing. And look, Albert Rusnak has been really productive, and he's been, for the most part, pretty good.
00:34:41
Speaker
But coming out of this window, the things that we were hearing, which unsubstantiated kind of rumors at this point, but supposedly what Craig Weibel was telling fans when they'd ask is, it it looks like we'll probably sign...
00:34:57
Speaker
Albert will pick up Albert's, ah you know, a DP option. And I don't. And I think that that's mainly because i don't know that Craig believes he has money to go out and get a new DP. And that's crazy.
00:35:12
Speaker
That is crazy. It is completely insane. I don't. the The only thing that makes sense, and I don't even know if this makes sense. The only thing that makes sense is Adrian is going to sell the club in the very near future and doesn't want to spend any money. He doesn't have to.
00:35:29
Speaker
That's the only way this could retroactively make sense to me. And based on the way he looked after the game on Thursday, he didn't look like a guy who was checked out and getting ready to sell the club. Right. No, I mean, he's like, like, look, I'm not sitting here trying to stand for Adrian or anything. Adrian, if he wants to defend himself, he's welcome to come on the show and defend himself.
00:35:50
Speaker
But I will say this for him is that he cares. He cares a lot. and Absolutely. and And that's sort of where the the disconnect is most frustrating is that he, i think he has talked himself, his rational brain has talked himself into believing that he doesn't have to spend transfer fees and spending transfer fees is just sort of wasting money.
00:36:11
Speaker
But look, man, you can't just go on like this forever. At some point, you got to spend money to buy talent. Like that's a truism in ah around the world.
00:36:22
Speaker
You can beat the system so many times. Adrian is a ah poker player. He understands odds. He understands all this stuff. And look, you can beat the house on a short term basis.
00:36:35
Speaker
You cannot beat the house over the long haul. And right now, the Sounders have sort of talked themselves into we can beat the house forever. That's how we built this. And that's just not sustainable. At some point, they're going have to spend some money. And that's look again, I'll say it again.
00:36:51
Speaker
that money wasn't going to save them from Thursday's result, but hopefully it's a wake up call that this is what can happen when it starts to fall apart. And unless we're ready to just let it all fall apart, we got to start spending some money.
00:37:04
Speaker
Yeah. you're You're not going to always be able to draft Christian in the, you know, with the 11th pick or whatever. Right. That happened once in 2015, by the way, you the, right. The, the, you know, all time leading scorer is not going to,
00:37:20
Speaker
be born and decide he doesn't want to go play in Germany when he has options and would rather play for you. Like they lucked out in so many ways. Nico and Raul, two of the most successful DP signings in league history, right back to back.
00:37:34
Speaker
Um, all of their, like every single hand hit for an extended period of time, but there's no, there's no such thing as Sounder's exceptionalism, right?
00:37:44
Speaker
There's nothing in eight. There's nothing in the water. There are lots of things organizationally in the DNA of the franchise that are special and important, but they're not enough to just assume everything's going to be okay forever.
00:37:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's not it's not all money, but money is going to at least show people that the sound We're trying to fix this. They're trying to fix it, you know, and this window right now is could not possibly, frankly, be more important. i I know that there is probably some people listening to this saying like, look, we're not going to overreact to one result. We're not going to overreact to one chain of results like this is a long term project.
00:38:31
Speaker
And what I have to say is that this is this is a wake-up call. it's not You're not responding to one thing. You are coming to your senses. That's hopefully what's happening here, is that this is not about one game.
00:38:45
Speaker
It's, you know, look, ah i i I think if the Sounders had tried to get away with this window of doing the thing that they have been doing the last four years, which is to say we tried really hard to find signings. We talked to a bunch of players we really like.
00:39:02
Speaker
And wouldn't you know it, they were all just barely out of our reach. And we weren't going to we weren't going to compromise our beliefs in order to bring in someone that we didn't totally believe in.
00:39:14
Speaker
And while I think there's truth in all that, the reason it's true is because there wasn't enough money. Like yeah if you had more money, some of those players probably would have been willing to sign with you.
00:39:26
Speaker
And yeah, yeah. And so hopefully there's more money. And look, if if is Sounders fans want to withhold their ah their renewals, which, man, how how insane is it that the day that the renewals launched, they had this performance?
00:39:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's pretty incredible. pretty I mean, it's like a symbol. it's it's ah It's a signal from
Engagement Strategies and Fan Interaction
00:39:51
Speaker
God, right? Almost, yeah. It's it's crazy. and And to your point, it's not just this game, right? It's getting totally blown out by Cruz Azul in the Champions League last year.
00:40:02
Speaker
It's blowing 2-0 lead in the playoffs up a man against Minnesota last year. It's not being able to get past the Galaxy in 2023, even though I think they were the better team.
00:40:13
Speaker
It's always finishing... Just in a position that puts you up against it in the playoffs. Right. it's It's, you know, there's always a stretch of time every season where everybody's like, oh, the Sounders are back. And it's never...
00:40:29
Speaker
long enough for anybody to be fully convinced and right like theyre i'm sure that what they'll do next is they'll go on like a seven game winning streak and then we'll say oh it wasn't wasn't this silly but it that does sort of paper over the bigger problems right which is like they they can't just keep kicking the can down the road and saying look uh Like, and I guess this is the thing is that there's no guarantee that spending a bunch of money is going to fix.
00:41:01
Speaker
That's going to ensure that this kind of performance never happens again. But the spending the money is what keeps people again. We we can't repeat this enough.
00:41:12
Speaker
It's it's it's a symbol from ownership that they care that they that they get it, that they want to entertain the fans. And part of entertaining fans is changing who is in the movie, you know,
00:41:26
Speaker
It's you can have look the Fast and the Furious was a really successful franchise and they they did it mostly with a core of the same characters. But there were every movie had new guys in it.
00:41:38
Speaker
I think I'm pretty sure I like I'm i'm pretty sure that's true. Yeah, i think so. I mean, it was always like you always had Vin Diesel, I guess, as Christian in this analogy. Sure.
00:41:49
Speaker
Exactly. But there were other. Yeah, there were other guys. There are other guys. The Rock was in a bunch, wasn't he? But not all. I think so. No, not all of them. ah Paul Walker, obviously, be really is think a person that was um in all of them.
00:42:01
Speaker
Ludacris was in one. Yeah, ah yeah it it is. I mean, it is that right. And it's also like it's I do. I do. And it's it's also it's it is the showing people you care.
00:42:13
Speaker
And it's also the show people you're interested in somebody else than, you know, the 26,000 people, you know, for sure are going to renew their season tickets.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah. Like show that you want people coming to games again, that you want to maybe one of these you know is open up the upper deck again. Right. Yeah. And this is this it's worth reminding. We haven't really talked about this, but part of the reason that there is 35,000 and change at this game was a the Sounders wanted to make sure that every seat that was ah returned, got found its way into another, like a first time on us person's hands.
00:42:51
Speaker
And then they also did this Soccers for the People promotion where tickets were $20.26. And that's most of who was up in the Hawks Nest slash Green Zone thing. So what you did... And and by the way, I think to to qualify for that 2026 price, I believe you you couldn't have been at... it's like you had to have not gone to a game for a year or two or something like, so that was like your enticement to come back. So on top of the call it 25,000 diehards who were there, there was another 10,000 or so people, a lot of whom were experiencing the sounders for the first time in person yeah or for the first time in a while in person. Or who had who had left and come back.
00:43:32
Speaker
Or had left and come back. And this is the performance that you put on. And look, I thought the... to the sounders credit, the eternal, so what is it called? Eternal sounders circle of legends.
00:43:44
Speaker
They, that was an ah honestly, I liked that ceremony. I, I had no problem with them doing it. I know some people have been like, Oh, we shouldn't do that stuff before Timbers. It's always distracting, blah, blah, blah. You know No, ah it was well done.
00:43:55
Speaker
I loved having Casey talk. I thought it was a great moment when, when the Timbers army was like booing him the whole time during a speech. And then he, at the end of it kind of gave this like, let's go kick their asses or send them back down to Portland or whatever. i thought yeah I love that stuff. I think that's, that's part of the entertainment of the, the entertainment part of it.
00:44:14
Speaker
And yeah, you got to live up to it. You have to live. up That's what this is all about. Like if you are a great team, you should be able to taunt the opposing fan base and get away with it.
00:44:26
Speaker
That's, that's sort of what being like the Sounders is all like, if you want to be a great team, the Sounders claim they want to be a great team. You got to be able to handle that stuff. Yeah, if you if if you were too soft to have a pregame ceremony but before when you play your rivals, yeah there's there's a bigger problem, right? It's it's not it's not the pregame ceremony's fault, for sure. It is the pregame ceremony's fault, exactly. Yeah.
00:44:51
Speaker
Uh, so I don't know. i it was a bummer because it was shaping up to be a magical night. It was like, I'm not being hyperbolic when I said, when I was on the field during sort of like the boom, boom clap and, and the Tifo coming down, it was all, it was great. It was, the energy was so good.
00:45:11
Speaker
I thought this pregame ceremony was good.
00:45:15
Speaker
You know, in some ways, it was nice to see that the Sounders tried, you know, ah because they haven't done that enough. And one of the things we asked Casey about was how being able to have a circle of legends is a so a symbol that the Sounders take themselves seriously as an organization.
00:45:34
Speaker
And and that's true, obviously. but it can't be an excuse for not doing all the other stuff. You know, like it's, it's, yeah it's all fine and good to have a circle of legends. And by the way, it should have permanent signage. The fact that it's on a digital signboard is absolutely ridiculous.
00:45:51
Speaker
And, And if the Sounders wanted to, they would they would fight and claw and figure out a way to put something that at least looks like permanent signage up there, even if it wasn't literally permanent when the Seahawks are there.
00:46:04
Speaker
But I digress. And the Sounders wanted, they they they sometimes do a good job of the sort of ancillary stuff, the the stuff they can do one-off, and they do a good job of taking care of former players.
00:46:19
Speaker
You know, they I think they had a big dinner with, with Jimmy Gabriel's family and Siggy Schmidt's family, you know, Siggy's wife or a Siggy's widow was there.
Urgency for Change and Closing Remarks
00:46:28
Speaker
All of his kids were there.
00:46:30
Speaker
Kurt Schmidt was there. He's the GM of rsl So it was not a small thing that he had come in for this game. Cause I believe he missed um RSL's game sometime around. ah Oh, that's totally right. But anyway, the fact that Kurt was there being honored for his dad when, when he had another team to run is not a small thing.
00:46:51
Speaker
Casey Keller showing showing up there and giving, you know, giving time and doing all this stuff. Look, that's all I don't I don't want to take away from the Sounders doing all that stuff well, but that's not enough.
00:47:03
Speaker
It's it's that and spending some money. It's that and making sure that every Sounders game feels special. It's that and showing your fans that you are as mad about this result as they are.
00:47:20
Speaker
And i just don't see that. No, I don't either. I mean, hopefully by the time training is over tomorrow, this, this is outdated already before most people had a chance to listen to it, but it's just, i it just feels like, I don't think I've ever felt this negative about the team, right? Like I have been, people have absolutely for years accused me of, of being a Pollyanna.
00:47:50
Speaker
Uh, and, and I was right a lot of the time, right? Like I was right to say, I think we should wait it out. Like they won a lot of trophies. Yeah. Uh, they like for years, people, you know, before Ladero were signed, people said they're not going to sign anybody. They could have had Blanco.
00:48:04
Speaker
They didn't sign anybody. They need somebody that this team is bad. Then they go get the best player in team history. 2018. Oh, they, you know, Adrian doesn't want to pay another transfer fee. He's cheap.
00:48:17
Speaker
ah they could they should assign somebody in the in the winter window, then they go and get Roble. Right? Right. This just feels different. I don't have any faith that they're going to do that anymore. And I think if they if there was ever going to be an impetus for them to change course and and re-examine some things, this would have to be it.
00:48:34
Speaker
And I really wish I had more faith that it would be. Yeah. Well, that's probably a good place to wrap it up. I don't know what else we have to say about this game. The Sounders do have another match on Wednesday against Austin FC.
00:48:48
Speaker
Austin FC, another great opportunity for the Sounders to collect some points. Austin FC is not very good. And then after Austin FC, they I believe they play the Philadelphia Union, another team who does not look very good at all.
00:49:04
Speaker
So, you know, the Sounders could... improve ah pretty like that's going to Philadelphia is on the road. I don't think they've actually won. They haven't won in Philadelphia here very often, but it's a bad team.
00:49:17
Speaker
And then they get chance for revenge. He has not won at home though this year. So is that real? Yeah. they They've won once on the road. They have three draws and three losses at home. Great. That is, ah I'm sure that won't make for a fun stat for anybody. ah That definitely will not bite the Sounders in the ass.
00:49:35
Speaker
And then they get a chance for revenge against the Timbers. And, you know, I'll give, look, I want to give Snyder Burnell a little bit of credit because as bad as he looked,
00:49:47
Speaker
He, you know, whether he wanted to or not, he was one of the people that came out and talked to the press after the game. And he, you know, he had a good quote. I just want to read the quote that he had. And I hope, I really do hope that this that there's something to this. He says, we definitely need to reflect and make sure this never happens again.
00:50:05
Speaker
This was embarrassing towards the fans, the club, Washington. We do have a chance to make sure we, when we go over there to Portland, we take advantage of the opportunity and we kill them over there.
00:50:17
Speaker
Like, Hey, i appreciate the confidence. And I really hope that he gets an opportunity to show that a little bit. ah I, I, I wish it wasn't left to center Brunel to be the one giving that quote, but I appreciate that he did.
00:50:35
Speaker
yeah, and I don't know. ah Let's hope that the Sounders can turn this around. But I just want to reiterate, it's not necessarily about just results on the field. It is about sending a message, and it's about more than that.
00:50:50
Speaker
And, you know, we've said, we so i feel like I said this last year, too, but, like, it's it's not acceptable to just keep kicking the can and saying we're not going to we don't have any money to spend.
00:51:03
Speaker
Find some money. ah it's it's they They got to spend some money, man. They they got it. Yeah. And don't make perfect the enemy of good. Right. Right. Like yeah exactly. if we're We're past that.
00:51:16
Speaker
We're especially if you're not adding a DP. Take a swing. Take a swing on a guy. Take a swing on a U22 if you need to. Right. um Five points from your last six games is just not good enough. It's just for a team that was talking, you know, back in April about being a supporter shield contender.
00:51:33
Speaker
five from your last six is just not going to cut it. Five from your last six, when all five of those games, all six of those games, or sorry, four of those six games were at home.
00:51:47
Speaker
One of them was at Sporting Kansas City. And ah look, that the Sunners have just dropped way too many points that they should be winning. They've played too poorly in too many games.
00:52:02
Speaker
It's... it it has to get better. Like they, they gotta be better than this. And it it can't be just sort of like, we'll get them next time. It's like, we're, we're beyond, we'll get them next time.
00:52:13
Speaker
Uh, yep. But all right, well, let's get out of here, Aaron. Uh, at least I feel like we got to vent a little bit more. Hopefully. Yeah, it was good. It was good to actually feel like I was venting in a productive way.
00:52:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah i think we solved it. Solved everything. yeah Yeah, I think so. ah Thank you to our sponsor, Full Pool Wines, by the way. It's been it's it's always nice having her back. and And I'll just remind everyone that we are in the middle of a membership drive that goes through August, I suppose. we This is ah the rough year anniversary of Sandra Hart going independent.
00:52:48
Speaker
And if you want to keep supporting us, ah please consider becoming a member. And, ah and if you want to really support us even more, ah consider becoming a member at the supporter level ah or above that gets you access to our discord, which there has been, i don't think there's ever been a period in sounder heart history with more comments than the last, ah the day after like that Friday was absolutely bonkers. I don't know exactly how many comments there were, but it was almost impossible to keep up with.
00:53:21
Speaker
So i don't know if that's your, if you're into that, It's a place to be. Yep. Anyway. All right, let's get out of here. I am Jeremiah Shan signing off for Aaron Campo and our producer, Lickett. This is No Sadietes, part of the Sounder Heart Podcast Network, and we'll get you next time.
00:54:07
Speaker
Let's go at Sounders.