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Finding Your Path in Dentistry w/ Dr. Avi Patel
78 Plays1 year ago
Dr. Avi Patel and I had the opportunity to connect at Voices of Dentistry. We speak on the challenges of finding the right job after graduation, clear aligners, and building an educational platform.
Dr. Avi is a general dentist, speaker, educator and entrepreneur.
He attended NYU College of Dentistry and then practiced in the northeast for 2 years before moving to Austin, TX where he currently practices.
Early in his career, Dr. Avi was burning out on general dentistry before learning about Clear Aligners. When he first began implementing aligners into his practice - he noticed a major shift not only in his practice and for his patients, but in his life as well. He found that he had more time, income and a greater sense of fulfillment through this treatment option. Having experienced this - he wanted to share this with colleagues all around the world.
Since then, Dr. Avi has become a thought leader in the Clear Aligner space. He is the CEO and Founder of Clear Aligner Advisor - a Clear Aligner consulting company. He regularly posts Clear Aligner tips on his instagram page @doctor.avi and on his YouTube channel.
Dr. Avi is authentically passionate about empowering dentists to reach their maximum potential in life. His goal is to make Clear Aligner education accessible to general dentists all over the world and be a positive light for struggling dentists who may feel alone and burnt out.
Thank you to Between Two Teeth for sponsoring this episode!
Connect with Between Two Teeth: @b2teeth
Connect with Avi Patel @doctor.avi
Connect with New Dentists on the Block: @newdentistsontheblock
Connect with Tanya Sue Maestas: @tsmaestas.dds
Full video on Youtube
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to New Dentists on the Block, a podcast featuring new dentists sharing their experiences in the world of dentistry. Successes, challenges, and life in between, navigating dentistry together one experience at a time. I'm so excited to share my next guest, who I connected with at Voices of Dentistry.
00:00:25
Speaker
Dr. Avi Patel is a general dentist, speaker, educator, and entrepreneur. He attended NYU College of Dentistry and then practiced in the Northeast for two years before moving to Austin, Texas, where he currently practices.
Burnout and Clear Aligners Discovery
00:00:40
Speaker
Early in his career, Dr. Avi was burning out on general dentistry before learning about clear aligners. When he first began implementing aligners into his practice, he noticed a major shift not only in his practice and for his patients, but in his life as well. He found that he had more time, income, and a greater sense of fulfillment through this treatment option. Having experienced this, he wanted to share this with colleagues all around the world.
00:01:04
Speaker
Since then, Dr. Avi has become a thought leader in the clear aligner space. He is the current CEO and founder of Clear Aligner Advisor, a clear aligner consulting company. He regularly posts clear aligner tips on his Instagram page, at Dr.Avi, and on his YouTube channel. Dr. Avi is authentically passionate about empowering dentists to reach their maximum potential in life.
00:01:27
Speaker
His goal is to make clear liner education accessible to general dentists all over the world and be a positive light for struggling dentists who may feel alone and burnout. Thank you to Between Two Teeth for sponsoring this episode. Let's get to it.
00:01:42
Speaker
All right, welcome to New Dentist on
Early Career Challenges and Mindset
00:01:45
Speaker
the Block. I'm very excited to have Avi Patel with us today, and he is going to talk to us a little bit about his dental experience and a great platform that he has that he calls the Boot Camp. Avi, welcome. Thank you for having me. Tell me a little bit about your background and how your experience in dentistry has been since you graduated in 2018.
00:02:07
Speaker
It has been a roller coaster. Um, I graduated NYU in 2018. I did not do a GPR. I did not do an AGD. I went straight to work. And so I worked in Connecticut and I worked in, um, I was in private practices, a mixed bag between that and DSOs. I actually had about eight associate ships my first two years out.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yeah a lot of a lot of job turnover but a lot of it was mainly just because they weren't good fits for different reasons. Some of the offices they weren't equipped to have an associate and we didn't realize that until I was practicing there for like three to four months. Not enough patient flow.
00:02:56
Speaker
Others, um, you know, I was at a place where they brought me on practice was great. And then the owner sold the practice three months later. It's a two dentists and then they fired me or he fired me rather. Um, I was, uh, at a DSO or I was at like a Medicaid office, which was like an hour and 45 minute drive away from where we were living.
00:03:21
Speaker
because I was just desperate for work. Right. Gotta pay the bills, right? Yeah. Had to. That was like the second or third job that I had out of school. Had to buy a car. We were living in Manhattan and then had to like literally buy a car and then drive out to Connecticut.
00:03:37
Speaker
Wow. That's, that's, I'm assuming that's not what you do in Manhattan. Not many have vehicles or am I mistaken? Not many people in Manhattan have cars. Yeah. So I had to like buy, and then parking was like 350 bucks a month. New York living is different.
00:03:50
Speaker
Yeah, when you live in New York, you're usually supposed to just work in New York. So all these opportunities, I feel like it was, I went into every single one of them just wanting to learn. I think most new dentists come out wanting to learn, they want a mentor, they want to just continue to get better.
00:04:09
Speaker
And I think that mindset is the right mindset for everybody to have. But what sucks is the reality in that not every dentist you work for is going to want to mentor you. So that was like,
00:04:26
Speaker
That was this very real experience. That's real world experience. You're not going to learn that in a GPR. You're not going to learn that in AEGD. This is just something you just learn by getting out there and doing it. I think when I look back and I tell people that how many practices I've worked at,
00:04:46
Speaker
It's two types of basically reactions. One, wow, that's crazy. How'd you do it? And then the others are just like, oh yeah, that happened to me too. Yeah. I feel for our generation especially that is not uncommon, sadly. It's very frustrating to see many new dentists that are coming out that are experiencing a lot of the same.
00:05:06
Speaker
And I say unfortunate because that's hard. That's a lot of turnover and there's not a lot of consistency and it can be very stressful. I can only imagine how stressed you were during that time.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think I just tap into this mindset of just, I tend to like, I don't know how healthy it is, but I tend to just, well, I, things happen, I process and I move on and I try to do it as quickly as
Pivot to Aligners and Finding Fulfillment
00:05:28
Speaker
possible. I try not to let things bog me down for too long because you can only control so much. And if it happened, it happened. And it's just kind of like, okay, reflect on it. What could you have done better? And what do you need to do now to move forward? And that's kind of what got me through. It's that type of,
00:05:45
Speaker
mentality to push through this stuff and I mean it worked right because I could have sat there I could have you know complained I could have been bitter you know it definitely did take a toll on me mentally though because I was definitely depressed to some degree of
00:06:03
Speaker
My expectations of being a dentist were not meeting my reality. You can backtrack to the reason why I became a dentist. I think the more they talk about it, it was the lifestyle that I had seen or thought that's what I wanted. I saw my uncle, he was a dentist, shadowed him.
00:06:23
Speaker
And I just saw that like, there was like three pillars, which were, you know, it, you could tell that he was, um, you could tell that his patients like loved his care and treatment. He was making an impact, right? He fit, he was, he, he seemed like he was fulfilled, um, by helping other people. Um, and then, you know, he was only working like three or four days a week. So he had time and he was golfing and doing all the stuff, you know, traveling and spending time with his kids and,
00:06:53
Speaker
And then, you know, he also like, he had money, like he was living nice house. Like, you know, he had, he had a nice car and stuff. So it's like, okay, that, that looks good. Yeah. I was like, I love to have that. Right. Mind you. He was like a, you know, he'd been practicing for like 15 years. He built up to that. Correct. I didn't see everything before that, but that's what I had, you know, kind of like thought of and got in and started working. And then obviously all this turnover, I don't have any of that. I don't feel, you know,
00:07:21
Speaker
I was, I didn't have any time. I was working like six days a week in and out of like different practices, uh, long commutes, wasn't really making good money either, because whenever you're new to a practice, it's sometimes it can be hard to build that schedule. Um, and I definitely just didn't feel fulfilled. I was like just burning out on just doing that kind of basic bread and butter dentistry. Um, and then the pandemic hit. And so right now everyone's out of a job and we're all,
00:07:49
Speaker
Our generation has seen it. We have been through it. It's tough. I was just hitting my stride too, I think clinically. Mind you, I was burning out, but I was in that tier of confidence. During the pandemic is when I was like, you know what? I'm going to reflect and just why do I hate what I'm doing and what can I do to improve? I started just investing in myself and investing in education.
00:08:13
Speaker
And so I learned, uh, I took an implant course and then I also just like dove into like aligners. So I was already certified for Invisalign. So I just like started watching those modules and I was like, I watched their online modules and I was like, when we go back to practice, like I want to do this.
00:08:31
Speaker
But the two practices I was at, neither one of them really wanted me to implement it. One owner actually told me that aligners are not a profitable procedure. And he just wanted me to refer and just do root canals. Interesting. Yeah, which is incorrect.
00:08:49
Speaker
Who was he getting his information from? Yeah, he was, he had a pretty big like ego and it was kind of like his way or the highway. So, okay, no problem. So then my wife and I ended up moving to Austin. So we moved to Austin and then that's where I was at a DSO. Okay. And we, uh, the DSO was great in the sense where like they'd supported me. They're like, yeah, whatever you want to do, go for it. You know, they had an ITERO scanner, they had an implant system. They're like, knock yourself dead, do whatever you want. And I'm like, sweet. And like,
00:09:16
Speaker
I hit the ground running. Like I started placing implants. I was doing like posteriors, like very like safe stuff. So that was slowly ramping up. Uh, but aligners, I did 50 cases in my
Teaching and Consulting Initiatives
00:09:27
Speaker
first six months. Wow. So yeah, I just hit the ground running. Yeah. And everyone's just like, Oh, how'd you do it? And it's like, I, I focused more on the oral health. I wasn't pushing cosmetics. I was pushing the oral health and the importance of straight teeth.
00:09:41
Speaker
And that resonated with the patients and I didn't really look back. And then what I started to do is I started to get those three things back in life. I had more time because when you're doing aligners, it's not really like a laborious procedure like fillings, root canals, crowns, implants. It's a lot hands off and it's more just getting the case acceptance, setting up the case.
00:10:04
Speaker
And then you're like polishing composite like that's the only time you're really in in the mouth So I had time I had more money because aligners are like five thousand dollars a case very profitable and then I felt fulfilled like I was doing dentistry that I felt was making a difference for my patients and I could see it and like my patients were telling me about it like they were saying that they're actually taking care of their you know and
00:10:29
Speaker
taking care of their teeth, they're actually flossing now. So I was like, wow, this is amazing. So I started to love dentistry again. And then at that point I was like, all right, I want to share this with other people. So then I started teaching coworkers. And so one of my coworkers was a dentist that had been practicing for like 20 years. He was an owner. And then at this DSO, he was an associate and he was open to learning. So basically taught him everything I knew.
00:10:55
Speaker
And we kind of grew together as well, but then he started doing like 10, 12 cases a month. And then I was, I had some other friends in the DSO and that was helping out them with their cases. And then I was like, you know what, let me just like spend more time doing this. So I went to the leadership team at the DSO and I asked them if I could
00:11:14
Speaker
Just have like an official role like director of aligners or something like that because they had like 30 offices And they said they saw the value in it, but they didn't want Me to do that. They just wanted me to focus on producing in the chair. So with that My wife actually told me she said why don't you just start a consulting business? And so then I was just like
00:11:36
Speaker
Okay. Let's do it. I was like, I have no idea how to do that, but let's go for it. So then I started consulting and then I was teaching dentists that had no experience, um, zero cases a month to doing like 25 cases in their first two months. So that's huge. Yeah. And it was, it was all just feeling like really good, really aligned for me.
00:11:58
Speaker
That's a good pun there. A good play on words. Yeah, that was good. It felt great to just teach like that. And I knew that the skills that they were getting, it wasn't just moving teeth. It was going to change the way that they practice. And then at that point I was like, okay, I want to teach as many people as I can because this stuff is like, the world needs to know about this. That's the mindset that I had.
00:12:23
Speaker
And I couldn't do that with one-on-one consulting. So then I pivoted to an online training program.
Aligners in Public Health and System Selection
00:12:31
Speaker
And that's what we have today is it's an online training program. It is about like nine modules, about four hours of content. Dentists can watch it at their own pace. It takes you through everything A to Z on how to do aligners.
00:12:46
Speaker
And it's for the general dentist by a general dentist. That's awesome. Yeah. So I'm not taking on crazy cases. It is very simple, but it's like an effective implementation system that you can take and implement it. And then I also do monthly Q&A coaching calls. Oh, cool.
00:13:05
Speaker
So that way there's someone there to kind of hold your hand whenever things come up, because that's how it worked for me. I had a mentor, Dr. Blocker. She kind of helped me when I first started. I would go to her with questions about cases and little things like that. And just super grateful for her help. And it's something that I'm also now kind of looking to give back in this way where
00:13:31
Speaker
Dentists who are wanting to start and who want something, maybe they want something new, a new procedure because they're bored of what they're doing. Maybe they want more income or maybe they're trying to find a way to differentiate themselves as like a candidate, whether it be an associate or an owner, looking to kind of
00:13:51
Speaker
get into aligners. Um, those are the people that I've, you know, wanted to help and that I am helping. So it's, yeah, it's awesome. And ever since then I have just been focusing on that. And now I clinically practice two days a week. And then I use the rest of the time to focus on the online business. Um, yeah.
00:14:11
Speaker
That's huge. If there's a new dentist who is interested in incorporating aligners into their practice or into a practice that they're joining, what's the first step that you would encourage them to do other than, of course, taking the boot camp? What's the financial investment that they're looking at? What would you say? A rough estimate?
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so I think like you have to make sure that you have a scanner or access to a scanner, right? Cause if you're doing like alginate impressions, just for PBS impressions, whatever it is that you like, just don't do impressions for aligners, like get it, make sure you're in a place with a scanner.
00:14:50
Speaker
from an associate position, you know, then I would say, I mean, honestly, like I also put out like a lot of free content so I could put out a lot of tips and tricks on my Instagram and my YouTube page. They can start there. So it's all free just to get some exposure, get an idea of like how to start, how to start talking about it, how to do it to a certain degree. And then whenever, yeah, they want to jump into the program, then they're more than welcome to.
00:15:19
Speaker
Do you help dentists recognize and determine what cases are appropriate for them to treat and which ones maybe are? Oh yeah, definitely. And most of the cases are like, you can do them in like six to eight months. So I teach basically how to take on predictable cases and how to be efficient with it while still achieving a good result and improving the patient's oral health.
00:15:45
Speaker
Um, I'm not taking on class threes. I'm not taking on like bilateral. Yeah. Post your cross, but it's like, it's very like predictable stuff that aligners work with. Um, and so for me, it's kind of like a no brainer. It's like, well, why isn't everybody doing this? Right. You shared that it's, um, well, you shared with me earlier that it is system agnostic, meaning that you can incorporate this knowledge to any system. Is that what you meant by that? Yep. Um, so that being said, um,
00:16:16
Speaker
There are a lot of systems that are around. How do you start differentiating them, one from the other? What makes one stand out? What should you be looking for, I guess? Yeah. It all depends on the practice, I think. Some systems, they're very integrated top-down, what scanner you have. If you want to do Invisalign aligners, then you pretty much can only do with an ITO scanner.
00:16:41
Speaker
Do you want to do another brand like ClearCorrect? They are like open platform, so any scanner works. But then the other thing too, right, is like what degree of like case difficulty do you want to take on? So I don't do crazy cases, but if you want to do more advanced stuff, then I would do a little more research and maybe go with more of like the proven brands that are out there because there's going to be a lot more predictability.
00:17:10
Speaker
I can't fully speak on that but that's just how I would go about that conversation, you know, and then a lot of them, I think it comes down to just what you like what works for you and like the support right.
00:17:28
Speaker
some of these, some of the aligner brands, like they all have different support levels. And so some of them, if it's just kind of like minimal support on the backend, maybe don't go with that. Right. Okay. You know, and I would talk to other dentists, like just, yeah, but don't talk to the ones who have only done like five cases. Right.
00:17:47
Speaker
talk to the ones who are actively doing it with each brand. Because every brand has doctors that have a lot of cases that they're doing. And the quickest way to do that is, let's say you're looking at hand-aid, reveal, clear correct, Invisalign, sure smile.
Community Support and Future Vision
00:18:04
Speaker
If you really want to do your due diligence, when you reach out to those reps and then ask them to put you in contact with a dentist that is doing a lot of cases,
00:18:13
Speaker
and then just have a dentist to dentist conversation with that provider and just ask them, what are your thoughts? Have you used any other system? What do you like about this? What don't you like about it? What do you wish? You do that, you're just going to get more perspective. And I just think a lot of dentists sometimes we just get shy about asking questions. For sure.
00:18:35
Speaker
And like, you think everyone's like trying to compete, but like, it's not the case. Like you just need, I mean, just being here at this conference, like everyone's like so easy to talk to. Yeah. Super supportive too. Lots of support. Yeah. You just got to ask. And that's what I'm realizing. Also, it's like, I'm also trying to be a part of that movement of like creating more community, uh, sharing resources, sharing information, because if, if us dentists can't even trust each other to give each other honest advice, then like, that's a problem.
00:19:02
Speaker
I have a personal question. I work in public health and would love, love, love, love to do aligners. It would be huge for a lot of the patients that we serve. Can you keep costs low if you try and incorporate aligners in a public health setting?
00:19:20
Speaker
But what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, that's a good question. I think it comes down to obviously the biggest thing that you have to control. You can obviously control price, but the lab fee. Right. Right. And a lot of these aligner companies, they're starting to have similar pricing in their structures, which is around that $1,800 one.
00:19:43
Speaker
$1,800 price point. And then if you do like a certain volume, they'll give you like volume discounts. So if you do like 50 cases in six months, it'll have a lower price.
00:19:54
Speaker
And then it's just kind of like, it's hard, I think to drop the price to let's say like two grand for like a comprehensive case that's going to take time in a higher lab bill. Because if you're charging the patient two grand and the lab fees, 1800 bucks, it's $200 for like a significant amount of work in terms of time, right? Like it's going to take a lot of share time. So it's tough. I think like,
00:20:23
Speaker
I don't know. Do you guys do a lot of other like bigger procedures or higher ticket items or not really? Sometimes, it just depends on the patient. Sometimes people will come in and it's very, very rare. They're ready to go for something that's on the higher level, higher scale, but usually not. So that's where my question was is if this is something that we could
00:20:46
Speaker
potentially scale for some of our low-income patients who, you know, this could be transformational for them. It's hard to get any of them into ortho just because of the cost factor.
00:20:58
Speaker
Yeah. Um, what is like the highest, like most expensive, I guess, procedure that you would say that you've been able to like confidently offer? Yeah. So, so we don't place implants, but we have a period on us who will give our patients half off, which is huge. So, you know, implants is probably the biggest and an implant supported denture is probably the biggest thing that we've been able to, to, I guess, provide. That's around what, like three?
00:21:25
Speaker
Thousand two thousand four thousand I I think so this is this is probably an exception but she said that in total with she did for implants on the top four on the bottom and The two prosthetics I think she said she ended up playing paying like 12k Okay. Yeah, but I would say that that's and that was one patient or that's that's one patient. Yeah That's one patient. Yeah That's the exception not the rule. Yeah
00:21:49
Speaker
Cause I feel like you could go into like a volume based model with aligners by dropping it down. But like, I don't think you could really charge less than like 4,000. Okay. But you could break it up into payment, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. 4,000 upfront. Like you can, there are options to make it more accessible. Like you could do 24 months, right? With like zero interest and stuff like that. And I get it's tough also for, cause I've been in offices like
00:22:14
Speaker
You shared the Medicaid office. I get it. Some people literally just don't have it, which is a shame. Yeah, it's hard. Where do you hope to scale the bootcamp? What is the future look for? Are you in for the bootcamp?
00:22:30
Speaker
So for the bootcamp, I would, I mean, my goal is I'm a very, I'm a big dreamer. Um, so I don't like to limit myself, but I would like for it to be, you know, number one worldwide clearliner training program for general dentists.
00:22:45
Speaker
that are looking to start. I'm not standing here saying I am a master orthodontist, I am a general dentist who has found success doing straightforward cases and I figured out the entire implementation process and I feel like there's value in that for anybody looking to start.
00:23:03
Speaker
And then it's just kind of like choose your own adventure after that.
Personal Interests and Advice for New Dentists
00:23:06
Speaker
If you have a deep passion for it and you want to learn more and you're going to do elastics and all that, go for it. Uh, but yeah, my goal for the program itself is to be, um, just kind of known as like, I mean, it'd be sweet if somebody could graduate dental school and then, you know, and then like, and then if like their first CE that they would be something like, well, my thoughts actually were to, you know, it'd be cool to see this in the schools, especially, you know,
00:23:31
Speaker
like an elective or something. I mean, you know how it goes at the schools, but it would be something to dream and aspire to. Yeah. Maybe I'll write a book and the book, the school's going to have the book and it'll be like a guest lecture or something like that. Yeah, that would be huge. So I haven't asked a whole lot of fun questions, but tell me what you do for fun. Tell me.
00:23:50
Speaker
What do you do for fun than all your cool projects like this? For fun, I like to go on walks, honestly. We live in downtown Austin. Nice place to be. We're right by the lake. Doing a nice walk around the lake is great. It worked out. Love trying taco spots. Nice.
00:24:17
Speaker
In Texas, you got to do it, right? Yeah. Tacos and margaritas. I'm actually hoping they got some margaritas out here. Oh, I hope so. I hope so. I'm a fan. Yeah. So it's that. What else do I do? It's crazy because my life has changed a lot in the last year and a half. I started taking personal development a lot more serious. So just prioritizing physical health, mental health. Good for you.
00:24:40
Speaker
Um, thank you. Yeah. And it's, uh, it's been great cause it's, you know, changed the way that I do things and it's, and it's, um, kind of, I've learned more about myself and the things that I actually enjoy as opposed to like what my friends enjoy and what I just kind of tag along for. Um, so yeah, I just, I think I like to.
00:25:04
Speaker
Spend time with my wife and dog and just be present. I try to be as present as possible.
00:25:15
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I guess I also read books. I started reading. That's great. I wasn't a big reader before. Yeah. I think that's a big part of personal development and I'm glad that you have made time for yourself. I think that a lot of dentists don't make time for themselves and it leads to burnout, it leads to mental stress and anxiety. And so I think that's fantastic. One last piece of advice that you have to share for new dentists out there
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah. I think for a new dentist, like don't put yourself in a box, right? And don't put yourself in a box and don't think that you have to be like another dentist that's out there. Um, I think the biggest thing is recognizing that like you are unique as an individual and you can do whatever you want.
Closing and Contact Information
00:26:00
Speaker
If our listeners want to connect with you, what's the best way?
00:26:03
Speaker
Yeah. Easiest way. Just hit me up on Instagram. It's dr.avi. And yeah, shoot me a DM. And I'm more than happy to give you any advice if you need any, or if you just want to follow along and watch my content and watch you grow. Yeah, absolutely. Avi, thanks. Thank you so much for your time. And I'm happy to have had you here and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge with our listeners. And I also look forward to seeing how you scale this and how you grow as a, as a person.
00:26:32
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much. It was awesome to be on. Thank you so much and tune in next time for another episode.
00:26:38
Speaker
Thank you for joining me on this episode and speaking with Dr. Avi. If you'd like to connect with him, you can find him on Instagram at dr.avi. You can find more about his clear aligner course on his Instagram. If you'd like to connect with new Dennis on the block, you can find us on Instagram at newdennisontheblock. If you'd like to connect with me, you can find me on Instagram at tsmysas.dds. A huge shout out to Between Two Teeth for sponsoring this episode.
00:27:06
Speaker
Please continue to subscribe and rate our podcast. If you know a new dentist that you'd like to see on the podcast, feel free to share that information on our Instagram page. We'll catch you on the next episode.
00:29:28
Speaker
A huge shout out to Between Two Teeth for sponsoring this episode.