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Mailbag: What are the Sounders doing with all their money?
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It’s a little late, but Jeremiah and Aaron got around to doing the mailbag for June. Among the big questions they attempt to tackle is “what are the Sounders doing with their cap space and Club World Cup money?” They also dig into the questions about getting the most out of their talented players, what is going to happen with Obed Vargas and a ton of other things that are listeners’ minds.
As a reminder, all these questions came from our private Discord, which is available to all subscribers at the Supporter ($75/year) level or above. If you’d like to upgrade your membership, you can do so here. If you’re already a Supporter or above and want to join the Discord, shoot us an email.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor Acknowledgement
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi, I'm Will Bruin, and I was just recognized as a Seattle Sounders legend. Now I get to do voice reads for the Sounder at Heart podcast network. Here we go. Come on. Hey, O'Shaughnessy.
00:00:14
Speaker
Let's go. What save by Frye. The Seattle Sounders have done it. MLS Cup winning. Here comes Ruiz Dias through the middle to crowd it for Seattle.
00:00:29
Speaker
And now they truly can start the celebrations. It's the Sounders MLS Cup. Nico Lodero leaves absolutely no doubt. The Sounders rule the region.
00:00:43
Speaker
Seattle, Sounders, it's got built.
00:00:52
Speaker
This feels fucking awesome. This is a tiny dog. Nice work on your little yacht yat thing. And Portland can't say shit. know, what was the thought process in terms of who you decided to use and who you didn't?
00:01:06
Speaker
Ever since Southert Hart wrote a commentary that we didn't take over coming seriously. Go, not Seattle!
00:01:18
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime Sounder supporters.
00:01:32
Speaker
They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, Pacific Northwest.
00:01:43
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Nos Adiates, part of the Sounder at Heart podcast network, sponsored by Full Pool Wines, Hacks and Ferments, and our
Hosts and Episode Overview
00:01:51
Speaker
subscribers. We're recording on Wednesday, July 2nd, 2025. I'm your host, Jeremiah Shan.
00:01:56
Speaker
Joining me today is my co-host, Aaron Campo, and our producer, Lick It!, This is the mailbag for June. We're running a little bit of late, a little late, but we are going to give a little bit of a brief recap of the Austin game, give some high level thoughts on that. But we're going to we have a lot of questions, so we're going to spend most of the time on those.
00:02:16
Speaker
ah But how you doing, Aaron? ah It's been the longest three to three weeks of my working life. Yeah, I am. I am running on fumes, to say the least.
00:02:28
Speaker
But yeah. You know, we got we got a holiday coming up here, so i'm looking forward to that. And yeah, you know, otherwise trying to ignore everything happening outside of the soccer world.
00:02:41
Speaker
Well, ah yeah, it's been I'll tell you not that not to get too into banter, but my kids are in summer vacation now, as the most of Seattle is, and they've each done a
Review of Sounders' Performance Against Austin
00:02:53
Speaker
camp.
00:02:53
Speaker
And then we're going to have a couple of weeks of lol and then August is going to get crazy for us so I'm trying to kind of enjoy this early part of summer but ah this Austin game was a was I think I needed a much needed result for the Sounders they came in we talked a lot about last week how there was this sense of momentum building around the Sounders even though they had lost five in a row and first time in the single season Sounders that had ever ever lost five in a row but
00:03:27
Speaker
In order to actually maxim to like use that momentum, they needed to get a win against Austin, I thought. And they did that. They were, i think, professional in the way they did it. they you know the The XG was relatively even. I think that's mostly a a fact ah ah result of the game state because the game, when the Sounders took the 2-0 lead relatively early in the second half,
00:03:53
Speaker
They had been pretty dominant. I thought they had controlled the game and then the game started to open up a little bit in some ways. And and I think most of the chances that Austin had came after the Sounders were already up to zero. So I don't know. I just thought ah I thought they performed well. They they did the things that they didn't like blow their this I think it was interesting.
00:04:14
Speaker
In the postgame locker room, it was maybe the least excited I've seen ah victorious locker room in the Sounders. Like it was just very going about our business. Like they weren't mad or anything, but just not nearly as high. And I think that's to be understood because I think they were sort of coming off this really exciting period in the Club World Cup.
00:04:36
Speaker
And and beating Austin just didn't have the same juice. But yeah I don't think that showed in the performance. Yeah, I think that they looked like a team that knew they were better than the opponent, ah which has not always been the case. It's been a complaint I've had about this team for off and on periods for as long as I've i've been a Sounders fan.
00:04:56
Speaker
um But I think especially last couple of years when they've struggled, you know, they they play teams that they're clearly better than. They don't seem to understand that. um And you and I think just they did what they needed to do and they You know, i wasn't in the locker room, obviously, but I think that that's a decent mindset to be in. Right. To look like, you know, that you should be Boston at home.
00:05:23
Speaker
And I think it's got to be really hard to go to the Club World Cup and play PSG and play Atletico Madrid and not be outclassed and feel any other way than, well, we should beat Austin FC at home.
00:05:37
Speaker
Like that's not a good team. Yeah. And, you know, i'm I'm glad you mentioned the XG because it's my it gives me a chance to talk about my favorite subject, which is single game XG and how it's how misleading it can be. And I think that this game is a great example of it.
00:05:50
Speaker
ah Yeah, I thought the Sounders were very clearly the better team up until they they got the second goal. um Austin's expected goals came on 11 shots, one of which was on target.
00:06:01
Speaker
I think that just kind of it's it's an additive thing, right? If you take. 11, uh, low XG shots. That's going to add up, right? You're going to, you're going to get close to, to that one, uh, mark, which is where they ended up.
00:06:15
Speaker
Uh, and you know, I just, if you score, if you, if you take your chances, ah you don't need to keep taking bad shots and trying to force something to make something happen. You can know hang on to possession, but I was, i was very pleased with the performance. I think it was exactly the kind of performance they need, ah they needed. And,
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, it felt good. It felt like, you know, you need more than one win, especially against a a bad team at home. And to feel like the things are back on the right track, but I feel confident that they will be now.
00:06:43
Speaker
Right.
Upcoming Match Against Columbus
00:06:44
Speaker
I feel, i feel pretty good about the direction of of the rest of the season. and Yeah, I think they're going have a much better test against Columbus this Sunday. The game's going to be actually the Sunday night soccer kind of featured game of the week on on Apple TV.
00:06:59
Speaker
But I think that's going much better test. it's you know But it's a game that they should win. ah But the most encouraging thing I thought from this game is... There was some potential for it to be sort of a face planty game. You know, Alex Roldan was forced to play center back. They had no natural. They only had one natural center back available.
00:07:21
Speaker
That was Jackson Reagan. And I got to say, I think Jackson Reagan has been very good ah since the Club World Cup. And he he looked very good in this game as well. He had a couple of actually decent looks like at goal even.
00:07:34
Speaker
But Alex, I thought, was really good at center back. So good that I almost would be open to the idea of him playing there more often. Maybe not, you know, I'm not saying he should be displacing Yamar Kim Kihee or even Stuart Hawkins.
00:07:50
Speaker
But I do like I appreciated the way he played there. I thought he he looked very confident. And I and think some of that is Austin was a good matchup for him, especially at home. Austin and does not want to have the ball a lot. They didn't put him under a lot of pressure. But, you know, Brandon Vasquez is a big boy. He's a dangerous player. Austin has some dangerous players. They just didn't look very dangerous in this game at all.
00:08:14
Speaker
No, they didn't. I thought that the Sounders really, really controlled the game. id think that I was also impressed with Alex. So I'm not trying to neg him or take anything away from this performance because I thought he was great. And and I agree with you. I think it's really nice to know that he's got that in the toolbox.
00:08:27
Speaker
um But I think the Sounders did such a good job of controlling the game pretty much every other phase that it it did make his life easier. um Yeah, you know, I think that if the Sounders are getting overrun in the midfield,
00:08:38
Speaker
That's a much tougher assignment for Alex. It's a much tougher assignment for for anybody. Right. But um but I just think it speaks to the performance of the whole team. Right. And that, you know, Austin really wasn't able to exploit, you know, a potential ah matchup advantage there.
00:08:55
Speaker
um But he did he did play really well, and I think the game state allowed him to do things that he's really good at in possession and you know give give the Sounders a slightly different look at center back, which could really come in handy in certain game states. you know if If they've got a situation where they want to get some more attack and talent on
Player Performance Highlights
00:09:12
Speaker
the field, and yeah chasing a goal, you know having Alex slide back into center back is could be a really valuable thing to have. Having somebody like Alex and Jackson Reagan back there able to to start attacks that would be a really beneficial thing to exploit if if the opportunity arises, i think.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah. The other player who I think it deserves, well, I think we can both say that Obed Vargas, Christian Roldan were again, very good. They were probably the key to sort of shielding Alex from having to do anything.
00:09:43
Speaker
But the other player who I was, i was pretty happy with up until he sort of fell apart there at the end was Reed Baker Whiting, who was, You know, he wasn't great, but I think he again showed why people are intrigued by him playing more.
00:10:00
Speaker
it's It's not that he does anything so spectacularly well. It's just that he's he's a good connector. He's a strong defender. Now, he picked up two pretty dumb yellow cards.
00:10:12
Speaker
He, you know, he didn't need to handle the ball that he handled. And then he definitely didn't need to sort of go like he ends up leaving his foot in, which is the most frustrating part of that tackle that gets him sent off is that if he just goes in on the tackle,
00:10:27
Speaker
He's probably fine, but then he sort of like threw his leg up to to impede the the run, and that's what gets him the yellow, I think. And yeah i just want him to be smarter. That's the second time he's been sent off with two yellow cards.
00:10:41
Speaker
I think that's the only time, the only two times he's ever been ejected from a game. So, you know, I don't want to over-index on this being a thing that he does, but...
00:10:52
Speaker
it It is notable that both times he picked up both cards in quick succession in games where he was pushing himself beyond where he has normally like he has not played a lot of 90 minute games.
00:11:06
Speaker
And, you know, and so i don't know, but i think the the solve for that is you got to kind of start. You just got to let him keep playing 90 minutes.
00:11:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I i agree with you 100%. I think that I can live with mistakes like these from ah kid his age with his experience level. I really like what he brings to the field.
00:11:29
Speaker
i I think that people at this point know how I feel about New Who. I didn't see anything in this game that made me think, I don't know, maybe, maybe he's, he's not ready yet for, for more minutes.
00:11:41
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, I thought it's unfortunate. I felt really bad for him. Cause I think as soon as a whistle went, you could see in his body language, he realized what he's done and that he was gone. And I do feel bad for him, but you know, that's a learning experience.
00:11:54
Speaker
I'm glad that it happened when the Sounders were up to nail and cruising, that definitely makes it a little bit easier to, to stomach. yeah, so You know, you live and you learn.
00:12:05
Speaker
ah If he's still making mistakes like that with consistency, you know, next season after after getting a lot more minutes, then that's a problem.
00:12:17
Speaker
But I think at this point, he just looks like a young guy who, as you said, sometimes loses his head when he's trying to push himself late, you know, late in games. so Yeah, and I guess I should add, he did play 90 minutes against Atletico Madrid. So, you know, it's it's not like this is completely foreign to him.
00:12:34
Speaker
He has a, you know, he does have a one other 90-minute performance this year. and Interestingly, he played 90 minutes against Portland in the Open Cup. So, he he knows how to hold himself together sometimes. It's just that I think when he picks up one yellow, it tends to, it can kind of snowball. But,
00:12:56
Speaker
I like him as a player. i think I still saw more that I liked than day I didn't like from him in this game. I'm willing to sort of live with the growing pains there.
00:13:07
Speaker
i do hope that there is a open competition, at least between him and new who going forward knew who the thing that kills me about knew who is that the mistakes he makes so often are completely mental checking out type of mistakes that i I don't know that you know he's he's a veteran player. He shouldn't never be making those types of mistakes, and yet he does it with remarkable regularity. and you know I just don't know that his... his he doesn't do enough to overcome them, I guess, is in my mind. and maybe I don't know. Maybe that's unfair, but I just want to see more of a competition there between...
00:13:50
Speaker
between the two players. Did any, anything else from this game sort of stand out to you as as worthy of, ah note? Yeah. I mean, not, not really ah aside from the, the two obvious ones of Jesus Ferreira, maybe looks like he's starting to put things together. i think that's the, this is probably his best performance with, i think so. I, yeah, I thought he was really pulling the strings in the first half. I scored a great goal.
00:14:15
Speaker
ah The kind of goal that I don't think he has the confidence to score, a month ago, six weeks ago, um which is a, I think it's a good sign. And also that, you know, I, I don't think Danny Masofsky, I don't think there's anything he could do to display Jordan Morris as the starting forward. And once Jordan is 90 minutes fit, fully healthy, but he's, he's making it more interesting than I, than I think you would expect it to be. yeah And I think that the really nice thing about that is that it allows them to be a little more conservative,
00:14:46
Speaker
with getting Jordan back, they can limit his minutes. They can, you know, integrate him more quickly. They can maybe give him a little more time off, you know, down the stretch as we get into summer and leagues cup. Maybe you don't feel like you have to start them ever unless you, you know, get into the playoff stage.
00:15:06
Speaker
And I, that's just, I think a really, really welcome outcome because it wasn't that long ago that we were talking about, The Sounders have got to do something about the backup forward spot. You know, they're not getting any production out of Jesus at that spot. They're not getting any. Lord knows they're not going to get any production out of Misowski.
00:15:25
Speaker
And now, I mean, he's putting up well-brewing type numbers as a backup forward. Yeah, he's got six goals in MLS play and seven goals overall. You know, those are you'll take those for your backup striker, I think, any day.
00:15:39
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, he's he's having on a permanent basis. He's having, I think it's fair to say, a just without qualifier, a really good season. Yeah. And, you know, that's the Sounders have absolutely needed that this year with the with the absences they've had and and just the general, you know, struggle scoring outside of the forward spot.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, no, I would I would totally agree with that. Well, ah why don't we take a little bit of a break? We'll come back. We'll tackle the questions. ah And yeah, you're listening to Nos Adietes.
00:16:14
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Sounder at Heart Podcast Network, which now includes Nos Adietes, Lobbing Scorchers, and the Cooler Guild. We've been independent since August of 2023. but need your support to make sure it continues.
00:16:27
Speaker
Although this podcast is free, it's only made possible by your continued support. Memberships start as low as $25 a year, which not only helps make podcasts like this one happen, but also gets you access to everything we produce.
00:16:40
Speaker
If you're able to support us at higher levels, starting at $75 a year, you gain access to a host of other perks, Most notably, entry into our members-only Discord where the smartest, funniest, and most engaged commenters share their thoughts and ideas.
00:16:56
Speaker
To find out more, just visit centeratheart.com and click the subscribe button in the top right corner. Thanks for listening. Nos Adietes, admittedly, is not exactly known for our spicy takes, but that doesn't mean we want our food to be mild.
00:17:10
Speaker
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00:17:22
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00:17:35
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:17:59
Speaker
Hacks and Ferments is a proud sponsor of that Sounder at Heart podcast network.
Subscription Encouragement and Team Offense Discussion
00:18:06
Speaker
Welcome back to No Sarriates. So we got a bunch of questions and I will start by once again stating that these questions come from our discord. If you want to join the discord, you can become a paid subscriber of sound at heart at the supporter level ah or above that's $75 a year.
00:18:25
Speaker
ah We oftentimes throw discounts for those. You can even find it for cheaper than that. But if you want to get in on this, I would urge you to become a subscriber. And I'll also add, we've been, you've probably noticed this over the last few months, we've been running a lot more ads in our main feed.
00:18:42
Speaker
And if you want to get a version of the podcast that has a lot fewer ads, you You can become a subscriber at any level and you'll get access to the unified feed that is just our core sponsors that the ads run for. So it will be less disruptive to your listening to your precious ears. So wanted to pitch that to anyone. And you also help support this this whole operation by becoming a paid subscriber. You'll feel good about yourself.
00:19:11
Speaker
And yeah, anyway, what what's in Nos Audietas without a full pool wine ad? ums Exactly. It's just not the same. It's not the same. it's not the same It isn't.
00:19:22
Speaker
No, there's very few people that have heard Nos Audietas without a full pool wine in it. So sure.
00:19:31
Speaker
you you You want to start off here? Let's do it. First one is from tired Yeti. I know it's excuse me. I know it's dangerous to speculate on someone else's opinion, especially when it's a coach. But what do you sense is the area that Brian wants and expects the team to improve the most in the latter half of the season?
00:19:47
Speaker
I actually think this one's pretty straightforward is he wants this team to be better offensively. I think he understands that. as they're they're ahead of last year's pace.
00:19:59
Speaker
But if you really, if you, what's funny is like for a long time, they were, they were pacing ahead of where they're scoring from last year. They've actually fallen behind last year's scoring pace. Now that's over the course of the whole season.
00:20:11
Speaker
They were much better from this point of the season forward last year in terms of scoring. So if they were to do that again, they would exceed it. But I think he just wants them to score again. I mean, score more like this team is, i think more Offensive minded and better. Like they passed the eye test to me better than they did last year.
00:20:32
Speaker
They've been missing, you know, the the fact that Jordan has been out so long and they're still finding ways to score goals is encouraging. But yeah, I think this, he wants this team to be scoring more goals.
00:20:43
Speaker
Simple as that. Yeah, I mean, it's tough to argue with that. it's It's what I would like to see them improve most in the and the second half of the season as well. ah There's just too much attacking talent on this team for them to be below average offensively.
00:20:58
Speaker
um Yeah, I would agree with that. It's yeah, it's but they, you know, they're they're showing positive signs in that. That area. yeah So this one's from dudes. Be says, imagine a fictional scenario in which Lumen field was converted into a massive time machine.
00:21:14
Speaker
And we all spun back a few seasons into the past. One of us accidentally steps on a butterfly and the, and, and the pass takes on a new reality. The front office signs a DP striker instead of Pedro de la Vega as a DP winger to replace Ruiz Diaz when his contract is up.
00:21:31
Speaker
With a DP striker and a goal-dangerous Morris on the wing, are the Sounders better in this reality?
00:21:40
Speaker
Maybe. i don't know. um i mean, maybe striker gets hurt. maybe the striker gets hurt Uh, maybe the striker sucks.
00:21:54
Speaker
Um, maybe Jordan Morris is extremely pissed off about getting moved back to the wing after playing so well as a forward and just kind of phones it in.
00:22:07
Speaker
Um, you know, who knows? ah i I know people feel like the thing to fix the scoring on this team is is getting a striker, and i I don't agree with that at all because I think the Sounders are getting plenty of goals from their strikers.
00:22:24
Speaker
They're not getting goals from anybody else. That's the problem. and i mean Jordan Morris had a perfectly respectable number of goals last year. They've gotten a perfectly respectable number of goals from their forwards this year.
00:22:36
Speaker
And I think a lot of people say when they envision, well, we should just go sign a DP striker. They think, let's just go get a guy that's going to score 25 goals a season. Well, there aren't that many of those guys. Right.
00:22:47
Speaker
Like, it's just... And and yes, there are there are guys that come in and are totally lights out in this league, set it on fire from the start. um We have had a couple of them, and I think that in some ways, maybe that's changed our perception of what we should expect from from DP signings.
00:23:04
Speaker
um But there's a... I mean... from my In my opinion, there's a reason that I've pretty consistently the last few years thought that signing a goal dangerous one year was the best thing they could do to improve the offense.
00:23:17
Speaker
It's why I was excited about Ryan Kent after the first couple of games, right? Because he looked like he he might be that guy. um i just i think that the problem is not their strikers are not scoring enough goals. The problem is they score they're the only ones that score the goals. So maybe they're better. I don't know.
00:23:34
Speaker
maybe Maybe that striker they signed is Kevin Dinkie. And he, you know, ends up becoming the player he became in that extra year in Belgium ah here and is the best striker in the league. It's possible, you know, but they also could have signed any other number of DP strikers that have signed in MLS since PDL be signed and have been bad or mediocre or underwhelming. So yeah.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah, I guess if the argument is, i would rather, it would the Sounders be better if they were getting more production out of the DP spot that Pedro de la Vega is occupying? And I think the answer is yes.
00:24:10
Speaker
But yeah of course of course we're agnostic about what position that person would need to be playing. Like that person could be playing as a winger. i did think, i did I actually dug into, unrelated to this question, I dug into some stats around their wide production this year.
00:24:26
Speaker
And they have gotten more wide player production from wide players this year than they did last year. Although it's been mostly on the assist side, they got 10 goals and five assists from their primary ah wingers and fullbacks last year.
00:24:43
Speaker
They have six goals and 12 assists from those same players. So that's just a, for the purposes of this, I wasn't including Jordan Morris and last year's total. I wasn't including Jesus Ferreira and this year's total. So Anyway, that's the primary.
00:24:57
Speaker
and And so they've gotten more production and that's mostly from the fullbacks, but yeah, they, they aren't getting a lot of goals from wingers right now. And that's the biggest problem. I mean,
00:25:10
Speaker
Pedro is on a per 90 basis is as productive as anyone. And they've got a bunch of player. We, and we actually have a question later on sort of about this. And maybe this is, mean, maybe we should boot that question up, but the the problem is that they have a bunch of talented wingers who don't seem to be putting the ball in the net a lot.
00:25:32
Speaker
And I think that's probably more of the issue than it is anything to do with the number nine. Yeah. Agree. Yeah. Yep.
Tactics and Player Creativity Debate
00:25:40
Speaker
Um, but since I'm, I have the question here, so I'm going to go ahead and jump ahead to the section of this, uh, Q and a, where we, where we talk about this a little bit.
00:25:51
Speaker
Um, But this is from the list. And he says, does Brian's coaching limit players' ability to be creative? And is Brian the one holding back players like Pedro and Kent?
00:26:05
Speaker
And then sort of ah a similar question. This is ah based on a story that Brian McKay wrote for Sounder Heart. And I'll throw this in there. Twimberly23 had a similar question about after reading that article. He was he was wondering if we should switch to a 3-4-2-1.
00:26:19
Speaker
three four two one ah as that seems like it it gets a little bit more out of the attacking players that we have. Yeah. i So I don't know that I'm willing to say that Brian is holding back creative players necessarily. i like that article that Brian wrote. I thought it was good. i think there's some really interesting points raised in it.
00:26:41
Speaker
um I don't think I'm willing to say that it is a Brian Schmetzer problem, that it's purely a tactical problem. I think that there is a problem there somewhere, right? I think that there is something real there that's at least worth thinking about considering, but I don't know what it is. And I don't think we have enough of a sample size and enough evidence to say for sure.
00:27:00
Speaker
um i i personally, I understand why they moved to the 4-2-3-1 when they did. i personally, i think that they were kind of forced into it. I think circumstances kind of forced their hand.
00:27:13
Speaker
I think those circumstances have changed and I would really like to see them move back to a more attacking shape. um And, you know, formations are agnostic, right? I think it's less about the formation specifically that they're playing and more about what they're doing tactically. And I think they were nominally in a three center back shape against Austin, right? But I think it still looked a lot more like, you know, ah they've been playing the last few months. So...
00:27:40
Speaker
I would like to see them get back. I mean, the it's kind of been the consistent thing is they build out with three in the back almost no matter who's on the field. And it's sort of the big difference is how they defend and sort of like the the role they're asking in the wingbacks to play essentially. Right. If they were playing truly with three in the back, you would probably have seen Kalani Kosarianzi getting a little bit farther forward in the attack.
00:28:07
Speaker
Although there were times where he was the farthest player forward on the right side, you know, there, so it's, it is, i don't know. It's, it's, I don't know what the answer is, I guess. I think one one of the things that Brian identified in this story was that ah Schmetzer seems to really like wingers who are the, the correct quote you know, I'm putting quote air quotes, the correct foot.
00:28:31
Speaker
So he likes right footed players on the right side and left footed players on the left side. And, and And we do see that playing out a lot. i You know, we've we've seen that's part of we've seen Pedro de la Vega it used almost exclusively on the right, even though he's had some some real create creative moments on the left.
00:28:50
Speaker
We've seen Jesus Ferreira has been mostly deployed on the right when he's on the wing. Ryan Kent almost exclusively had been deployed on the left. So you can the one the one player who isn't really being used that way is Paul Rothrock. And he's been sort of allowed to move around on either side.
00:29:07
Speaker
i do think it's interesting that Paul Rothrock seems to be a be the player who is is sort of like has to be on the field at all times. I thought he was a really interesting wingback option when he was playing as a wing pack early in the season.
00:29:22
Speaker
I think that you know he had – I understand what he does, and there's also some questions about this. But um I don't know what the answer is either, how to unlock the creative players, because it does feel like there's enough talent out there. Like if you look at Georgie Menungu, Ryan Kent, Paul Rothrock, Pedro De La Vega, Jesus Ferreira, like there's there should be goals there, right? There should be scorer there somewhere,
00:29:54
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And it's I will say that I don't think I'm not willing just to go so far as to say Brian Schmetzer is holding back creative players because we've seen creative players flourish. Right.
00:30:08
Speaker
Under Brian Schmetzer. I will say that I think the tactics the Sounders are using this year and for lots of last season are conservative in the attacking phase and it is more about not allowing yourself to get countered and so creative players have maybe less opportunity to take chances um and you can you know that's not necessarily the wrong decision um systemically like you can have a system that demands a little bit more
00:30:40
Speaker
um discipline if you want to, you know, to use a loaded word and and still have it be really effective. But I do think that it's going to limit what what you can do creatively taking on guys.
00:30:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I also think on some level, you probably need you like ah Albert Rusnak has still been very productive, but you you probably need a little bit more from, you know, your other central like there's a few positions like it.
00:31:10
Speaker
as good as Obed and Christian have been, they had neither one of them have, have provide much scoring punch. And I don't know, you need a ton of scoring punch from them, but you know, the these are like, they've, they've not gotten any ah offensive production office set pieces last year. They were able to do that with a bit more regularity.
00:31:28
Speaker
So i don't know. There's a few areas for potential improvement. Yep.
Paul Rothrock's Role and Team Depth Analysis
00:31:33
Speaker
Absolutely. I'm staying on the theme of the, of the wing. This one's from almost cool. Why does Paul Rothrock start pretty much every game, including Club World Cup, but it's still hard for Schmetz to praise him in postgame press conferences and his salary is so low compared to others.
00:31:47
Speaker
He's at $104K while Reed Baker Whiting is at $130K. Does coach play him reluctantly and pay him less so he'll go somewhere else? Do you think other teams will be interested in him sooner than later? ah Well, so I'll just follow up with a few a few observations. One is Rothrock does, in fact, lead the team in matches played. He's the, I believe, the only outfield player who has, no, I guess he's missed...
00:32:12
Speaker
No, he's played in every match so far this year. ah He is not so high up in the table of the team table in terms of minutes played. But he yeah, he's he's made 16 starts this year, which is tied for the ah third most on the team. So he's been your spot on. He has been a very consistent person in the lineup.
00:32:36
Speaker
I don't know that Paul, i don't know that I have, I have clocked that. I feel like Paul gets a lot of praise from Brian in the post game. Yeah. I, I, I'm not, I'm not totally sure. I, I'm feeling you on that one.
00:32:51
Speaker
i think. Rothrock is probably in line for a, for a raise is sure. I mean, his contract is up. He's, this is his contract year. they had tried to work on a, on a contract with him in the off season.
00:33:03
Speaker
His agent came to the Sounders with a number they thought was too big. And they said, look, if he repeats what he did last year, we won't have any problem giving him that number, but he's going to have to repeat what he did last year in order to get a number like that.
00:33:15
Speaker
And he might, he, I mean, it looks like that, that could end up happening. I wouldn't rule that out. ah So I, but he's not a free agent. So that doesn't give him a whole lot of flexibility.
00:33:26
Speaker
Um, and I think where you see the difference between him and like a Reed Baker Whiting is like, that's, that's negotiating power for you, right? Like Reed Baker Whiting was a player who was sort of a hotshot up and coming prospect.
00:33:39
Speaker
And Paul Rothrock was just a player happy to be on a professional contract. And that's sort of what happens. Um, And I, I, that's one of the things I always feel bad about when these contract numbers come out is that you start comparing yeah players at the wrong end of the scale. Sometimes like it's right. It's not like, let's not knock a guy for getting paid. Let's let's like, yeah, we should, we should get paid more and it's, but it's the, the salaries are not always a perfect reflection of a player's value to the team.
00:34:11
Speaker
Yeah. Agree. I like Paul Rothrock a lot. I'm very glad he's on the team. I think he's a really fantastic guy to have on your roster. I think he can be a solid rotational guy on a championship team. No problem.
00:34:26
Speaker
I'm going to throw some numbers out here. Paul Rothrock ah for non-penalty expected goals per 90, 28th percentile amongst attacking midfielders and wingers.
00:34:37
Speaker
Expected assists, 62nd percentile ah amongst attacking midfielders and wingers. Now you said... The Sounders said if he can repeat what he did last year, will we're happy to give him that number.
00:34:49
Speaker
So last year, Paul Rothrock played 1,316 minutes. He had 4.2 expected goals, 3.3 expected assists. ah He had five goals total, two assists total, right, in real terms, which are going to be the ones that determine his contract.
00:35:07
Speaker
This year, he has played 66 fewer minutes, 1,250 minutes. one thousand two hundred and fifty minutes ah Two goals, three assists, 1.7 expected goals, 1.7 expected assists, 1.6 expected assists. So he's not been as good as he was last year. yeah And again, those numbers, those rate stats are fine for a rotational guy.
00:35:28
Speaker
i do not understand why he is getting... and There's no performance-based reason for him to be getting more minutes than Pedro de la Vega. or Georgie Nungu, right? Like if anybody's got a case to say, Hey, what do I got to do to get more minutes? It's Georgie.
00:35:44
Speaker
um I think there's an opportunity cost to not giving Pedro those minutes, but I would still rather see Georgie getting more starts than Paul Rothrock. Again, ah like him a lot as a player. i just think that, I think that there is an element of people like the way he plays. Yeah. And they see that as,
00:36:04
Speaker
evidence of, of production and quality performances. And i i agree that he's underpaid. i hope he gets paid. I hope he gets life-changing money. Cause I think he, you know, he's, he's earned it, but I do think we, I think at times we can get a little over our skis with, ah you know, exactly how much he is contributing and, and how, how much value he has to the team.
00:36:29
Speaker
i Yeah, i I would also say that i I think he's got a really important place on this team. And I i think he's sort of being used as a. You've got to beat this guy out type of figure, like I think he's held you my guess is that Brian likes the way he shows up to training every day, the way he likes the effort he puts into the game. And he's telling these and I think he's probably i don't think this is.
00:36:55
Speaker
Even being harsh on him. I think the reality is that ah the five wingers that the Sounders have sort of competing for these two spots, he's the least talented of them. I think it's like, like on just a raw ability, but it's up to those players to beat him out.
00:37:12
Speaker
And, and so on that hand, I i don't really, i don't mind how much time he's getting because I think he's, one of those players has to just show like, no I like, maybe it's Ryan Kent, maybe it's Pedro Deleuze, maybe it's Georgie Manungu.
00:37:25
Speaker
One of them though has to sort of take the, the position by the neck and just say, no, this is going to be my spot. And yeah. And they're, they're totally, there is value in that, right? I should be clear. Cause I don't think I was as clear as I would have liked to be.
00:37:38
Speaker
i think that Paul has earned the starts he's getting in the sense that, nobody has beaten him out. You're right. Like nobody know his has, has shown that he's been, you're not saying he's been gifted. These starts right sort of unfairly.
00:37:54
Speaker
I'm saying that Pedro de la Vega and Ryan Kent, uh, are the guys that you would expect to be starting yeah and they got their opportunities and they didn't take advantage of them. Um, and Paul Rothrock does everything he's asked. And, and, and that's, that's just reality sometimes, right? Like it, it, it's,
00:38:14
Speaker
if I were the coach, would I be making these decisions? Maybe not, but I'm not the coach and I don't know anything about locker rooms or player dynamics or man management. Right. Like I just know numbers on a spreadsheet. So, um, yeah, I mean, I think you're, you're totally right. Like there is absolutely value in having somebody who can act as sort of a role model of like, this is what I expect from my players. And until you can either clearly outproduce this guy or give me more than he's giving me and, and,
00:38:44
Speaker
you know, other facets of the game, you're you're going to be on the bench. And I think that's totally valid. Yeah. All right. This one's from Dorcas. He says at the beginning of the season, the centers were considered the deepest team in the league.
00:38:56
Speaker
Fast forward to now, what did the roster build for depth get right? Would it get wrong? What does the future hold? I think from a purely depth perspective, I don't think you can have any real criticism of this team.
00:39:09
Speaker
um I think that, the fact that they were able to do as well as they did in the club world cup and then against Austin missing their top three or four center backs, depending on how you are not their three top three or four, but at various stages, missing three of their four top center backs. Yeah. um And so I think it's really hard to to question what they've got there. They've been missing their DP striker effectively almost all the year.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah, um they we just talked about the depth they have at winger. um The problem is that they have four guys who are playing like depth players, I would say. um You know, the the midfield depth is is maybe the weakest spot. But I mean, when they when Danny Leyva has been asked to play, he's been, I think, extremely good.
00:40:01
Speaker
ah Joao Paulo has situationally, I think, been really good. At you know an outside back, Reed Baker Whiting, I think, has played well. Kosser Renzi has played extremely well. He's really raised his stock this year. So I think Andrew Thomas has been pretty good. like There's just nowhere I can point to and say the depth is a problem here.
00:40:23
Speaker
Yeah, i I would totally agree with that. I would say the one thing... if there's been a ah criticism that was fair, I think people pointed this out. I don't know. This is a surprise, but I think the top end talent is still not up to change. does not feel championship level right now.
00:40:42
Speaker
And, and that might just be how it is. Like, that's just, the team is not spending the big, big money that they need to have the, the real game changers at the top end of the, of the, uh,
00:40:57
Speaker
of the league. And that said, the teams that are going to be the best in the league are going to have their best players healthy and available the most of the time. And so maybe if the Sounders end up, you know, if they stay healthy, relatively healthy for the rest of the year, maybe we, that won't even be a fair, maybe this will be exactly the team we, we thought they were, you know?
00:41:19
Speaker
And and I think that's sort of the, that's the challenge, right? Is that, you don't really know. Like right now, I think we were basically right about the depth of this team. I think it's been tested more than we would have hoped.
00:41:32
Speaker
And I think that's really been, that's been the challenge is just that, you know, they, if you, if you say, if you had told me that Jordan was going to miss, 75% of the season up to now and that they would still be fifth in the league and, you know, not be struck, you know, like that they're they're still able to score goals with some regularity.
00:41:55
Speaker
i think I would have taken that, uh, that Paul, the Paul areola was, was going to get hurt as early as he did. Exactly. I mean, yeah. That they'd be missing Yammer and, and Reagan and Keehi.
00:42:07
Speaker
Right, yeah. I mean, yeah. So, they they yeah, the the injuries have taken their toll this year. I think that's i think that's the that's what we learned, really.
00:42:19
Speaker
I do think it's not that I don't have criticisms of the team and their performance, because I do. I mean, that's why we're here, right? But I do think when you consider... what they've had to deal with injury wise this season, the fact that they are where they they are, because they had to deal with arguably less injury wise, less last season up to this point.
00:42:38
Speaker
And they were much, much worse. So, you know, I think that that's a testament to, to the depth. Yeah. Next one is, Oh, I just wanted to and just add one more thing as far as what the future holds, I think.
00:42:53
Speaker
And I, and I guess, yeah, me if were if there was something we were wrong about, maybe we were overly rosy about how good we thought Ferreira would be. But given, again, it was like, if we accept that the Sounders had budget constraints, I don't know how much, you know, like, I think they did well with what they had. But anyway, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah.
00:43:15
Speaker
No, no. hi i'm I'm with you. I will also say um the question about whether or not to bring real snack back seems kind of silly to me now. highest paid player on the team and I think a clear bargain. I think if he was making, i think if he was making the sort of elite DP level salary, he'd be worth the money.
00:43:32
Speaker
It's not my money. It's easier for me to say. Yeah. Anyway, ah next one. and And actually we'll just ask these two as a package deal. First one is from spaceman spliff. Do we have more points this year with new who and John bell plane as they have, or would we have a better record with John bell is left back slash left center back and a 500 K CB like Nathan.
00:43:49
Speaker
What do you think we lose gain or lose by moving on from new who? And, The next one is a little more blunt. This one's from, I believe it's AD Simone 206. to a second It might be Addis Simone.
00:44:01
Speaker
Sorry. If I, one of those is right. I hope if I got both of them, right, I'm really sorry. Is it time to move on from new who the soft season? So I will, I think the easier of these questions is if we had had, basically if you could swap new who for Nathan,
00:44:20
Speaker
I don't know how the Sounders would be really any better off. Maybe he would have played one more game, but like, I don't, write I don't know that having an extra center back,
00:44:34
Speaker
500K center back would be raising the Sounders ceiling right now. Like I still, that like that player presumably would not be a starter over Yamar or ah Reagan.
00:44:46
Speaker
You know, if i suppose if you could wave a magic wand and say you could have a better starting player than yamar Sure. Like I ah guess a Yamar who has his defensive chops and is maybe a little bit better of a pastor. Sure. I'll take that, but I don't think you're going guarantee that for 500 K. But the more pressing issue is, is it time to move on from new who?
00:45:09
Speaker
And I think the issue would knew who is, is, and was, and always has been is can you move him and get any kind of value? Like what you feel like is fair value for him.
00:45:22
Speaker
yeah, I would I think I probably would have said this before. I'll say it again. If you can get anything, if you feel like you can get fair value for for new who I think you you you can afford to move on.
Transfer Speculations and Roster Impact
00:45:34
Speaker
I got more ready to move on. I'll take it back. I'm more ready to move on from him now than I think I have been previously. Yeah, yeah, I so I'm assuming that the contract details that FB ref is wrong because it says this deals up this year.
00:45:51
Speaker
I assume you know, it's like we have we have that information on that you keep talking and I'll i'll look this up. um I will also just to bounce back to spaceman's posts question.
00:46:03
Speaker
and' got a more interesting question. that's that's what I figured. I think the more interesting question rather than center back is 500k left back like.
00:46:16
Speaker
You can get a pretty good, pretty decent and last left back for that money. And you don't necessarily feel like you have to play them over Reed Baker Whiting if he earns that spot.
00:46:28
Speaker
um And I think the answer is closer to yes than it is for Nathan, a center back like Nathan, for sure. um Yeah. And yeah, I mean, i I'm a little more ready than you to move on. I think i don't think that's any real big surprise.
00:46:43
Speaker
um I don't know if it's like... I'm certainly not ready to buy them out, right? Or anything of of that nature. um But I don't know what I would consider to be fair value to get that cap space back at this point.
00:46:58
Speaker
Like, ah it's much different than it was two years ago. I know that. um It's probably more than like a super draft pick, I guess. But it's probably not that much allocation money.
00:47:11
Speaker
Yeah, you know I don't I don't know what I don't mean, know what I would. I'm not sure what I would feel like is fair value for me. If you could five hundred thousand dollars in gam for new who. I mean, I would snatch your hand off for five hundred thousand.
00:47:24
Speaker
Absolutely. Fair enough. Now, I think it's like let's say they do go back to the three, four, two, one and they commit to that and they that's their plan going forward. right and they and they make changes to the roster to support it going into the next year, then it's a different thing.
00:47:39
Speaker
Because if he is going to be a center back and he's not going to be involved in the attack and he's mostly going to be tasked with doing one-on-one defending, I think he's a lot more valuable and and I think he he's a nice player to have on the on the roster.
00:47:52
Speaker
But if he's going to be expected to get forward, if he's going to you know be expected to do a little more situational type defending, ah to me it's... Yeah, not not quite salary dump yeah ah territory yet, but and closer than closer than I would have expected to, you know, a year or two ago, I'd say, I think.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah. ah All right. This is from Matty B. Or Matt sorry. ah Danny Mussofsky has elite stats this year, which you've actually done a good job of illustrating.
00:48:26
Speaker
ah He has scored most times he's started, and he has done so in all the ways that we would have needed by preventing ah providing a pesky target in the box and relentlessly finding ways to pull the trigger. His scoring streak only ended when he didn't start.
00:48:39
Speaker
Oh, and he's been pretty healthy. What more could he do to prove he should be a locked-in starter? A run over Jordan Morris with a car, I think. Yeah, I mean, it's I think it's it is kind of tough because it's like, in a way, it's like, what else could the guy do than what he's been doing?
00:48:55
Speaker
yeah But I just think fundamentally, Jordan is just a... I don't think it's that hard to explain that when you watch Jordan play, you can see how he changes the game in ways that Misofsky doesn't, even if he's not. like I think what Jordan provides is is an ability to affect the game when he's not scoring, and Misofsky's value is really like it's really his ability to score.
00:49:22
Speaker
Yeah, he he is a poacher's poacher, classic center forward. type of player. um Although he's not really a classic center forward because he he's not necessarily the best in the air. He's not super great at hold up play.
00:49:34
Speaker
um He really is a poacher. And like, I think that on a team, let's say, you know, you have a team where you have two DP wingers who are going to score a decent number of goals and and really all you need out of your strikers to bang in rebounds and such.
00:49:51
Speaker
I think he's a, he's a great starting nine, but I think for, team like the Sounders are just aren't getting that kind of contribution from their wingers and aren't really set up to depend on them. Um, Brian Schmetzer likes a striker.
00:50:04
Speaker
He likes a striker. That's the center of the offense. That's centerpiece of the offense. And think it's just kind of always going to be that way. Um, not the centerpiece, I guess, cause it was Nico's team for so long, but Nico's team was at its best when they had, you know, ah an elite striker.
00:50:20
Speaker
um So yeah, I, I just, it's, I think on a lot of other teams, he, he's ah perfectly great starting option, but I think for the Sounders, they just really need Jordan.
00:50:33
Speaker
Yeah. I, tell I think kind of with the, with a team that is not, if you had a bunch of offensive powerhouses surrounding Danny Masofsky, I think you can get away with,
00:50:48
Speaker
a player who his only job is to put the ball in the net. But the centers do need their center forward just to do more than Mosofsky mostly does. Now, that's not to take a... I don't think he's a bad player. I just don't... I don't think he's the elite number nine that you sort of need. And I think Jordan at least has the potential to be that. Like, when he's when Jordan is scoring, he's doing a lot to help your team, I think, because he does all this other stuff.
00:51:18
Speaker
Yeah, Danny Masovsky is in some ways like a ah ah not poor man's, but like middle class man's Eddie Johnson. Like he is going to score goals. yeah And but those Sounders teams where EJ was scoring a lot of goals, I don't think he was the best, you know, the best attacking player on the team by any stretch.
00:51:39
Speaker
Right. He did. But next one from from Ken W. Which is the more likely scenario? KKR earns the right back position and displaces Alex or Reed Baker Whiting takes. that I don't know why I did one one acronym and and one say the name out. But or RBW takes the left back position from Newho.
00:51:59
Speaker
I mean, I think RBW is, Reed Baker Whiting is the more likely player to supplant one of the two starting fullbacks.
00:52:11
Speaker
and And part of that is just what we've talked about today. I just think that Reed's upside is high enough that I think that they might overlook some of the game to game performances that keep new who in the starting role right now.
00:52:28
Speaker
Whereas i think the bar that Kalani has to clear to just totally supplant Alex Roldan is just higher because Alex is a very,
00:52:40
Speaker
competent player. Like he's, he's i think in some ways that's, what's frustrating about him is that he's just really, really competent. Like he's not an elite. He's, he's not an elite right back. Like he's not going to score you a bunch of goals. He's not going to dish out a ton of assists, but he's going to do everything you ask him to do really competently.
00:52:58
Speaker
And i think Kalani does some flashy stuff really well. I really like him. I would be very comfortable with him as my starting right back, but, Realistically, I don't think Brian is I would be shocked if if we get to an extended period of the season where Kalani is just starting week after week over a healthy Alex, unless Alex just regresses.
00:53:24
Speaker
Yeah, Alex has been sneaky good this season, like he he hasn't been flashy. He hasn't been putting up the kind of attacking numbers that maybe we've seen in the past, but. ah the Part of the issue last year was that he was not contributing eitherer like in either direction. he He was having some rough defensive games.
00:53:39
Speaker
I think he's been really, really beyond solid defensively this year. And I think that the Sounders just have depended less on their their fullbacks in the attack this year, which is which is good. um So some of those weaknesses that we saw last year you know haven't haven't really been an issue.
00:53:55
Speaker
So I think I agree. In other words, think it's going to really hard for Alex to lose his starting spot.
00:54:02
Speaker
All right. ah This one is from ah South Sounder. What have the Sounders done thus far with the 650K in 2025 GAM they received from Colorado in the Atencio trade?
00:54:17
Speaker
And then there is sort of some related questions that I may as well dump in with all this because it's sort of talking about money. But Matt B is wondering what the Sounders are going to do with the Club World Cup money and Magwa33 is talking about, well, maybe this, that we'll get into that one. Oh, that seems a little bit more separate, but yeah, I don't know.
00:54:38
Speaker
Uh, yeah. What, what the sounders have some salary cap space. They do, I guess is the answer.
00:54:47
Speaker
And I hope to God they use it. i mean, it's, it really is. We, it was, I think, Last year, it was more pressing because the team sucked.
00:54:59
Speaker
you know at the At this point in the season, the team was they just you know stank out loud, and that's not the case this year. But it would almost be more annoying if they didn't use it this year.
00:55:10
Speaker
um Because last year, I think you could make the case, it's like, what's what's even the point? like Right. Let's just we open up the cap space and leave it. um This year, it feels like if they had another piece that could really contribute, that that they could potentially make a run at something.
00:55:30
Speaker
um Now I'm sure Adrian would say, well, we stunk last year at this point and then we didn't sign anybody and we almost made MLS cup. So why should, you know, why should we spend the money?
00:55:41
Speaker
um Which, you know, very fair enough, I guess. I mean, but yeah i I hope they use it. Yeah. And I, and I, the reason I put it together with this is because they are not only do they have,
00:55:55
Speaker
Salary cap space, you know, we they have about one point one, one point two million dollars of salary cap space right now. And some of that money, I'm sure, will be rolled into next year. And that's not a crazy thing to do.
00:56:07
Speaker
But they have more than enough salary cap space to sign a u twenty two and maybe even sign another veteran if they want to do. But really what they have is they, we know they have cash.
00:56:19
Speaker
Like they just got nine and a half million dollars from the club world cup. And I'm sure Adrian will say, well, we, we got to invest. We, we, we've been losing all this money in other places. We got to invest it in the Academy or we got invest it in and these other things. But you know what? Like people, fans don't want to hear that. And I don't blame fans for not wanting to hear it.
00:56:40
Speaker
And I'm tired of hearing it too. They should go into this window with some, a real transfer budget. And the fact that I keep hearing that they don't have much of a transfer budget is driving me crazy. I don't understand. Like if they're not going to go out and spend at least three to $5 million dollars on a U23, I guess that would be the argument for not,
00:57:04
Speaker
signing someone is that you just don't have a budget for it and i don't think there's a good i don't but i don't think you can come up with a good justification for not having a budget knowing that they just got this windfall of money frankly like you know a lot of it isn't going to the players we know that you know a million dollars of that 9.5 is going to the players so what's where's the rest of the money going And I think yeah I would hope the sounders are going to answer that question at some point, because it's going to be a really, it's going to be a really frustrating.
00:57:35
Speaker
i don't, I just don't see how they're going to be able to look us in the face and say like, yeah, we had, we had this windfall of money. We didn't have any transfer budget, like insanity. Like, and right.
00:57:47
Speaker
I hope that's not what happens. I just want, but yeah, That would be really. and So the answer, I guess, to Matt's question is we don't know. We don't know what's going what's going on with the Club World Cup money.
00:57:58
Speaker
And the Sounders don't technically have to tell us, I guess, ah which is also. They have to tell MLS, I'm sure. But right. They, you know. Yeah, it's. And look, if the if the answer is look, we really need this money to plug holes elsewhere.
00:58:12
Speaker
Show like show show us. Right. Tell show like because I'm sure they did lose a bunch of money during COVID. They also made a ton of money leading up to COVID.
00:58:24
Speaker
Yeah, so did everybody. They took out a bunch of money and and loans that they never have to pay back from the government, which I'm fine with. I don't like i don't think that's a horrible thing to have done um by any stretch.
00:58:36
Speaker
But yeah, I just... You can't just keep... I guess what I'm getting at, what I believe is that I don't think they want to spend money.
00:58:50
Speaker
I just think it's that simple. I don't think they want to spend money on players unless they feel like they absolutely have to. Right. They don't see a need to do it. um They're not like this. You always hear.
00:59:04
Speaker
we're not going to spend money just to spend money. We're not going to spend money just to spend money. And that to me is i do not want to spend money. That's what that says to me. Like, what do you mean I don't want to spend money just to spend money? What are you talking about? if You're not spending money. to You're spending money to make the roster better, to make the team, to give yourself a better chance at winning games.
00:59:22
Speaker
That's what you're, that's the whole point of what we're doing here. It is not to limp into the postseason and hopefully make a run because you have a, you know, a coach who's a lifetime.
00:59:33
Speaker
Yeah. That's not, you're selling an entertainment product with a season that lasts 13 months of the year. Like, give people a reason to give a shit, to go to the games, to to care, to get invested in April or whatever.
00:59:46
Speaker
Like, yeah, yeah, it's, it's maddening. It's, it's maddening. And when you've got teams regularly setting new transfer records, I think something like $60 million dollars in total transfer spending in the last couple of windows.
01:00:00
Speaker
Yeah. It's a lot of money. And no of course you can look at the, at do we who we just played the, Sanders just look, you can look across at Austin and I'm sure they do. And they say, look, look, they spent $10 million dollars on Brandon Vasquez and they spent $10 million dollars on this winger who,
01:00:17
Speaker
looked like garbage against the Sounders whose name I can't even remember right now. Then he spent $12 million dollars on this Albanian striker who wasn't even on the field for him. And look at where that's gotten them. They've got 15 goals this year.
01:00:30
Speaker
Okay. So don't spend the money dumbly. Like have more faith in your money on good players. Yeah. Have more faith in your scouting. I'm not asking them to spend $15 million. dollars so Right.
01:00:41
Speaker
I'm asking them to spend two or three. Yeah. Right. Right. Like that is what I'm asking for. And it's it's not asking too much for the for a football club in the year 2025 and MLS in 2025 that just got a potentially once in every couple of decades financial windfall.
01:01:05
Speaker
Spend some of that money on the team. Yeah. Yeah. It's not asking too much. I'm sorry. i don't. And if if that is too much of a financial burden, if it is not a preference, right, if it is not a philosophy of the business that you have, but it is an actual existential threat to spend three million dollars on a transfer fee, then you got to find.
01:01:26
Speaker
Either hit the mega millions or find some new investment, because that is not asking too much. Yeah. Well, um I think I want to take one more break because this is the long segment. We're going to one more break. We'll come back and we'll finish this up.
01:01:42
Speaker
You're listening to Nose Adietes.
01:01:50
Speaker
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01:02:08
Speaker
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01:02:19
Speaker
Subscribe to the private RSS feed, ah but keep playing the episodes with with the volume turned off. Like just put them on when they're work or something. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No one's watching you.
01:02:32
Speaker
Yeah. Right. We do get credit for the for every time those ads play. So I don't want to undermine ourselves too much. But anyway. Yeah. All right. ah Next. Yeah. Next question is from Magwa 33.
01:02:44
Speaker
Early in the season, I was eagerly awaiting the windfall of cash that we'd be able to reinvest in our roster with the seemingly impending sale of Obed. The more I've thought about this, I wonder if it would just be a net negative on our roster.
01:02:55
Speaker
Could we even replace him giving our current roster construction? No open DP spots, up against the cap, and Obed not hitting our cap. Feels like any Obed sale would just mean more money for the team slash owners, but have little to no impact on our ability to bring in players or help our roster.
01:03:09
Speaker
If you were playing GM, are you selling, or would it take Obed to almost kick the door down and force his way out You know, this is actually a really good point. And I think that we sometimes overlook this reality is that Mog was right.
01:03:22
Speaker
Like the reality is that the Sounders trade or were to get $10 million dollars for oh Obed right now and move him at, you know, whenever in the summer,
01:03:33
Speaker
Really, all they've done is they've had a net loss of one of the best young players in the league. And the reality is that they can't really maximize the return on that because, sure, they could go out and sign a U-22. But like we said, they should already have money in the budget for that.
01:03:50
Speaker
So maybe they could add an extra U-22. But that even best case scenario, that U-22 is not going to immediately fill the hole left by Obed. And so really the dream scenario, I think, is that you find someone to buy Obed at the price that you want to sell him for, and they loan him back to you for the rest of the year.
01:04:09
Speaker
Kind of like the DeAndre Yedlin situation. I don't know how realistic that is, but yeah, I mean, I think what we should probably all be rooting for is that Obed continues to ball out. And then in the winter, he gets moved because then in the winter, you have a lot more flexibility about what you can do with that. Cause if you, cause then you could, you could potentially create an open DP spot if you wanted to. Right.
01:04:35
Speaker
But yeah, like the the way that roster is set up right now, they don't have the ability to totally maximize on a sale from Obed. Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely true. i think um I actually don't think the idea of selling him and getting him back on loan is that far fetched, because I think that the the kind of money the Sounders are looking for.
01:05:00
Speaker
is a little harder to find from the clubs of the caliber that would be landing at like they're out there there, there are clubs where Obed could go in and be. a starter or of a regular rotational player or whatever right away.
01:05:15
Speaker
But I think more likely it's going to be bigger clubs who like his potential, who are going to loan him out anyway, kind of like the Yedlin and Tottenham situation. um You know, I can definitely see a team in Spain or France that views him as a guy, a guy for a year or two down the line.
01:05:31
Speaker
um But they want to, you know, they they want him to keep developing somewhere else because they don't have the minutes for him. saying like, yeah, we we just want to have him. We want to have his rights, but you can have him the rest of the year.
01:05:43
Speaker
um And that that would be obviously ideal. Selling him in the winter would be second best. um But I do think that, I think the point is a great one, right? I don't blame anyone for being skeptical of what would happen with that money.
01:05:59
Speaker
um I think even if they sell Obed and all of that money goes into something like the Academy, or, you know, enhance scouting budgets, what like whatever it is, stuff that I do think is beneficial that um can really help the team in the long run.
01:06:17
Speaker
um don't blame anybody for saying, no I want you to spend money, you know, to bring players in. But I think that ultimately you have to sell Obed as a proof of concept.
01:06:29
Speaker
Yeah. Because like if your academy is going to be a profit center, which is really, I mean, maybe not the ultimate goal. I think the Sounders view their academy as more of a cheap source of talent, right? Which is totally valid as well.
01:06:45
Speaker
But I do think if you're trying to convince players of a high of a higher caliber to come to your academy versus an academy and ah you know somewhere else, um or potentially a player who had would have the ability to go play at an academy in Europe for dual citizenship reasons or whatever it is,
01:07:04
Speaker
i you have to be able to point to a success story. Right. And it can't be the Andre Edwin because that was 10 years ago and he didn't really come to the Academy. can't be store more I think that, right. Right. um So, yeah, i think that it's just like, it's important to do for one, because Obed is going to go play somewhere else and you want to get money for him.
01:07:22
Speaker
But for two to kind of say like, look, we produced this kid. We found him in Alaska, plays for the Mexican national team. He's playing in Europe now. like that's a, I think that's a pretty compelling story to tell at 14 year olds parents.
01:07:36
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, I just want to add something about Obed. I was curious. So Atletico just bought Johnny Cardoso for $35 million. dollars Now, granted he was playing at real Batiste. So they, a little bit more of a proof of concept that are buying a little bit more of a, of a known quantity, but man, uh,
01:07:57
Speaker
it's funny if you compare his, his ah radar chart to Obed, Obed just like kind of blows him out of the water. Uh, frankly, in a lot of ways now,
01:08:08
Speaker
Different levels of... I realize it's not apples apples comparison, but man, it does make me realize that there's money for a player like Ovid in the is yeah transfer world.
01:08:20
Speaker
Cardoso is essentially 40 years older than Vargas too. ah But yeah, you can definitely see how... you know, why players or or why coaches and, and talent evaluators like Obed so much.
01:08:38
Speaker
All right. Yeah. I feel I've not quite no good. well I was just going to say, I feel like sometimes when people watch Obed, they expect him to be like the best player on the team.
01:08:50
Speaker
And that's not, that's not really the point with Obed. The point is that he is as good as he is. And he is, 19. So, right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, this one's from our sheer, uh, the league's cup is, uh,
01:09:03
Speaker
really hard to get out of the playoffs uh and if we want we can talk about that a little bit too but it's possible that a team wins all three group matches and doesn't even get to the knockout stage of the tournament uh how should the sounders handle the last two matches if they lose the first one against cruz azul experiment players in position and i and i'll just ah and people in case people forgot just to kind of give some framework for this the leagues cup is going to a different format. They, it's kind of similar to what they called the, the Swiss system, I believe in, it's kind of like similar to the European, uh, champions league and, and Europa league competitions where,
01:09:44
Speaker
there's the Sounders are in the MLS group, but they play all teams against, uh, of a, they're drawn against teams from league MX, uh, league MECs and top, only the top four MLS teams and the top four league MECs teams advance out of the 18 that playing in this.
Leagues Cup Strategy and Roster Dynamics
01:10:02
Speaker
So it's, it's a kind of a ah crazy, like, it's great. they're They're going to play three games against league MECs teams, but like you almost have to go, I mean, I would think seven points is probably the least amount of points you're going to be able to get out the that state that phase of the ah the game.
01:10:21
Speaker
Yeah, I like the system, but it's very funny to whittle that big of a group of teams down to that small of a group of teams. Like, I think in it's, yeah, it's, ah I think more like at least half and ideally more of the team should probably get to through in a system like this. Yeah, that's, yeah, whatever.
01:10:44
Speaker
i don't care if the Sounders make it to playoffs in League's Cup. In fact, i would rather they didn't. ah I hate the League's Cup. I resent having to pay attention to it. I'm sure if they make a run, I'll have fun with it, but I don't.
01:10:58
Speaker
two Two of these two international club competitions, three, three of them in one season is too, it's too damn much, man. It's there's just a limit to how much I can care about this stuff. And this is the least prestigious of them.
01:11:12
Speaker
So I just, it's great that they can qualify for Champions League through it. So if they get to a you know, if they can win a final and and get in the Champions League, that's that way. That's, that's wonderful. But, I want them to play the defiance against Cruz Azul and the Academy against the other two teams as far as I'm concerned. So, well, I, I don't mind them playing. I think it makes sense to use your starters against Cruz Azul just because there's a, a buy that first week in the, ah so the, like they have basically two weeks, there's a two week period or there's a buy in between the league. and Right.
01:11:45
Speaker
So there's like a stretch of games where they're able to actually focus on playing in leagues cup. Yeah. And honestly, ah even if they win that first game, I still think you probably rotate heavily.
01:11:58
Speaker
Like, I think this is an Andrew Thomas tournament. Yep. Straight up. I think like you, you, I think you try a lot of stuff in the league's cup. There's no reason at all that you should be, especially given the group they're in where, you know, Cruz Azul looks like they'll be really good. and i just think you.
01:12:19
Speaker
Yeah. there's Rotate is the answer. I totally agree. Yep. agree. ah This one's from toxic ribbit. Which of the sounders gained most from club world cup playing time? Who seems ready to turn up the heat in the second half of the season? Whatever happened about talks to change to a fall, winter, spring season? Is that a thing? that if you Quite a, yeah, quite a few questions there.
01:12:41
Speaker
Well, let's rapid fire the the first one. There's still talks about changing the schedule. We don't know when that's going to happen, but it's not happening right now.
01:12:52
Speaker
They basically tabled that. um As far as the the crux of your question is who who really won more playing time, I think, in Club World Cup.
01:13:05
Speaker
I don't know. I really thought. you know I thought Reed was going to come out of this as the player who had the most upside, frankly, because I thought – because this was a huge opportunity to start against Austin.
01:13:20
Speaker
and so And I think maybe he wasted some of that goodwill. like he he There was, a yeah i think, a chance that he could – if he had not gotten kicked out of this game, I think there was a decent chance he would have started against Columbus.
01:13:33
Speaker
and then you know And then you kind of see where it goes from there, right? Yeah. yeah But i don't I don't know that anyone who wasn't already a bang-on starter did a whole lot to win, like to change their trajectory.
01:13:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, i would tend to agree. I do think it was more about the depth guys stepping up. Yeah. Yeah. um All right. This is from Faye.
01:14:05
Speaker
Between Rothrock, Pedro, Jesus, Kent, Georgie, we seem to have too many wingers. Are any of them likely to get transferred this summer window? i would disagree that we have too many wingers, actually. I think we have a good amount.
01:14:18
Speaker
and like i think it's I like our depth there. um
01:14:23
Speaker
And the only way I can see any of them going in the summer is...
01:14:31
Speaker
Uh, geez, I don't know. Uh, someone makes a Godfather offer for Rothrock maybe and says, Hey, we know this guy's contract is expiring and we want him, we want to build her, you know, want him to be a key player for us. I don't know.
01:14:46
Speaker
I mean, I could see, I think of, of those five, I think Pedro is probably the one who is most movable.
01:14:56
Speaker
And I can see it happening. i don't think the Sounders contrary to, I think popular belief, I don't think the Sounders are itching to get out of Pedro's contract. I think they would yeah be willing to listen to offers, but I, I kind of think they still like his upside.
01:15:12
Speaker
ah like I, I don't know that he's quite as buried as the perception seems to be. And if he can get going, you know, good for him.
01:15:24
Speaker
ah So I don't know. i think if they got, I, I, of those five, I think Pedro is maybe the one that's most likely to leave, but I agree with you. I don't think, I don't think it's that they have too many. I think they have too much talent and not enough production out of that group.
01:15:43
Speaker
Yeah. I think if two of those guys were producing at the level you would expect them to like a Pedro and or Kent and or Jesus were performing at the, and Jesus is, is getting there, frankly.
01:15:56
Speaker
um then you'd feel great. Like that's the perfect situation, right? You've got one, a one B and then cleared up guys. And then you've got a ah guy who could probably be a starter on a lot of teams.
01:16:08
Speaker
Perfect. It does get, but it does get interesting next year though, when you have Oriola coming back, because I, I would think that, you know, it does get crowded, I guess is what I'll say.
01:16:19
Speaker
It starts to get pretty crowded. If you yeah have Paul in there too. Yeah, I mean, I can see a world where Paul goes and gets his paycheck, his payday somewhere else.
01:16:31
Speaker
um And it's the best thing for all parties. Like I can see them saying we just don't have, you know, space for you, I guess. um But I could also see them trying to move Kent or Georgie or or something. So, yeah. Next one is from Danicus. Most of the top of the roster have guaranteed contracts through 2027 with the Sounders having a seeming having With Sounders seeming to continually have salary budget restrictions, how much of that could potentially be caused by not staggering these contracts out a bit more?
01:17:02
Speaker
It doesn't feel wise to have Jordan, Pedro, Christian, Areola, and Ferreira all have their contracts up in 2027.
01:17:09
Speaker
I don't know that that is ah huge concern for me. think... You know, it's two years out. There's plenty of room to fiddle around with those.
01:17:23
Speaker
I suppose. Like, I don't know that Christian is going to run his contract up to the very end. I don't know that Jordan is. and And even if they were all to sort of run out at the same time, i suppose you could just do a hard reboot.
01:17:36
Speaker
Yeah, I don't I don't think I really have ah huge concern about that. Yeah, I think there's a genuine possibility. that Jordan restructures his deal after this season.
01:17:50
Speaker
Like, I would not be shocked at all to see something like that happen. And he dips back below the DP threshold but for, you know, more guaranteed money over longer time frame. um So that's one thing. i think Russ next contract is no, his is 2026, right? Yes.
01:18:08
Speaker
yes ah Yeah, I actually have an option for. Well, it's like, look it up right now. I think I think it was two plus an option. But yeah, I would much rather have a bunch of guys expiring at once than have... Roseanne's option is 27, yeah.
01:18:27
Speaker
Okay, yeah. I would much rather have a bunch of guys whose contracts expire at once than have a situation where um you've got to eat kind of a dead you know dead cap space like with ah like we did with Ruudia's last year and Ladera the year before.
01:18:44
Speaker
I think that's, you know, that's, that's a worse situation to me. So
01:18:50
Speaker
yeah, I mean, the, the reality is you kind of have to plan a few years out. Like you you just have to do it. That's, that's the way it goes.
01:18:59
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Uh, this is from spaceman spliff.
Designated Player Focus and Financial Strategy
01:19:03
Speaker
How badly does Pedro need to play slash not make the pitch before we move them off of a DP spot for 2026? If that happens, does Craig have any budget to bring in a new DP that will actually start most of our games?
01:19:17
Speaker
Uh, I think that the more we've talked about this throughout the show, ah in various ways tonight, I am more convinced than ever that Pedro is not playing as a motivational tool. Um,
01:19:29
Speaker
I really am starting to think that that it's more that about trying to get him into a headspace to to to win that starting job. So I think it's less about performances because i and Pedro has been statistically of the Kent, Rothrock, De La Vega triumvirate. He's statistically been the best of those three, I believe, um and in most ways.
01:19:54
Speaker
I like the way he plays. I like the way he plays defense. Um, he, he presses really, really effectively. Obviously that's not the biggest thing you're looking for for your deep from your DP winger, but you know, I think that it speaks to his, his desire to, to, to see the field and to, to play more.
01:20:11
Speaker
Um, So yeah, I think that at some point he's probably going to get a run of starts and hopefully can take advantage of them. I mean, if he keeps up this level of production through the rest of the season, um,
01:20:28
Speaker
and he doesn't show like signs of having taken a step forward just from an eye test perspective. I mean, I think it's probably a conversation that they have to have, um,
01:20:40
Speaker
you probably have more insight to how the organization feels about him. And you kind of alluded to the fact that maybe they're higher on them than the fan bases at this point. um I'm still very high on him. I still think he's going to, in the end, end up being a really good player and prove to be a good investment, but he certainly needs to, to start showing that soon. If these questions are going to go away.
01:21:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I would say if he,
01:21:05
Speaker
if he falls further down, like if he's playing less, mean, in the second half of the season than in the first half of the season, I would think moving him becomes a pretty big point of emphasis in the off season.
01:21:22
Speaker
yeah But if he's playing, you know, if he stays steady, I don't know that he's going to get. I don't know if they're going to. don't know. We'll see. ah i don't think I think there's an idea, like maybe a belief among people that they can keep him without him being a DP. And I'm not saying that's what Spaceman Spliff is and suggesting.
01:21:40
Speaker
But as far as I know, he he's if he's back next year, he's going to be a DP. ah It might change in 2027. Like there might be a way to not make him a DP in 2027, but he's, he's going to be a DP if he's back next year, as far as I know.
01:21:58
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I, I would, I would think that if he, again, like i think that's probably a good mark is that if he's playing, if he's slipping down the depth chart from where he is now, I would think that's a good sign that they probably will be trying to move them.
01:22:15
Speaker
And then i don't know. it was I don't know what the but like, I will say this is they have to be in a situation where they buy him out. I don't think they're going to suddenly have budget to replace him.
01:22:26
Speaker
Like that's yeah like they didn't buy out Raul. i really don't think that i don't know that they're going to buy out Pedro. Like I don't see that happen. Yeah, I mean, I don't.
01:22:37
Speaker
It's really hard for me to envision a scenario where he can't be. That they can't get back at least enough to cover. the prorated portion his transfer fee. Right, right, right.
01:22:49
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree that. But i I am fairly confident, assuming they don't have to eat a ton of money, i am reasonably confident that Adrian would actually make money available for, or I should say the club, because it's not, you know, it's it's the club's money, not Adrian's necessarily, but um that there would be money available for a DP transfer fee if need be.
01:23:14
Speaker
I think they would prioritize free agents. You know, I think they would try to try to find a free agent first. um I don't think they would be spending the kind of money I think people would hope for them to be spending. i don't think, I don't think the Sounders are ever going to be spending the equivalent of $20 million dollars transfer fees. I just don't think it's going to happen as long as they have the current business model that they do.
01:23:37
Speaker
um But I think they would, there would be a budget for a transfer fee if they felt like they had to do it. Yeah. Yeah. right All right. right. Last question from Dorcas.
01:23:51
Speaker
ah way back in the day. Wow. Great timing. It's almost like you playing this way back in the day. Joe Roth and Adrian said they were never going to take money out of the Sounders, but they weren't going to put it in either.
01:24:02
Speaker
They wanted the budget in the black. I say this because my question is how has, how have cost deficits, MLS decisions slash rules, even COVID-19 affected the Sounders financially. The team was once one of the huge revenue drivers for the league and now is much lower than it was minus the fact of big money teams joining since the earlier days.
01:24:20
Speaker
Yeah, so the Sounders are still one of the higher revenue teams. Not the highest, but I believe they're still in the top third in terms of revenue. They, I believe, are the highest revenue team ah among the teams who don't actually, aren't the primary tenants or don't control their own facility.
01:24:39
Speaker
So the Sounders still make a fair amount of, like, have a fair amount of revenue, but they also have some of the highest costs in the league. I know renting like just to open up Lumen Field costs like $500,000 game. so their rent on Lumen field is, you know, call it $10 million dollars a year, which is a pretty big hole to start from, especially when some of these teams are probably spending half of that.
01:25:04
Speaker
Uh, so I do think that the cost of running an MLS business is going up and has gone up a lot from those early days. I don't, I still don't think Adrian is taking money out of the sounders. I don't think he's just lining his pockets.
01:25:17
Speaker
Um, I think they probably still try to run about even, but that is also why I think we're not seeing big transfers is because they can't really afford to make big transfers and still, you know, basically run a break even business. Like they would have to go into the red quite a bit more if they were to spend more on transfers.
01:25:40
Speaker
So i I do think those are things that are affect. Those are the realities. Uh, But i don't know that that I don't know how much sympathy I have either for for that situation. like Being a professional sports team owner is not supposed to be a money-making operation on a year-over-year basis. That's just not yeah that's not why you get into the business. If you want a cash-positive business, there's a lot of businesses out there that you can get into. this is You're making a long-term investment here.
01:26:11
Speaker
and If you're going to make a long-term investment, sometimes you got to take, you got to go in the red sometimes on a year to year basis. And I'm i'm not trying to so out be out here spending someone else's money, but I, and I do think it's actually important and worthwhile for the Sounders to run ah sustainable operation, but they have to like, they they still like, can't just not,
01:26:38
Speaker
be a professional sports team. like And then they're not. I mean, whatever. they're They're still there. It's not like they're running nickel and diming everything. But I do think that it's the league has changed a lot. And there's a lot of really rich owners who are willing to take losses.
01:26:51
Speaker
And I don't know that. the And I don't think the Sounders are are among that group right now. And that's leading to some disparities in in the way that teams run their businesses. And I think, too, like I'm glad you made the distinction between running a sustainable business and running a business that is battle has a, at the very least a balanced budget every year running in the black every year. Right.
01:27:15
Speaker
Because look at the equity, the owner, like ownership, current ownership has in the team versus when they bought into the team. It is worth 10, 20 times as much as it was.
01:27:27
Speaker
Yeah. They bought it for 30 million and they're worth about 800 million right million right now so much more than 10, 20 times as much. it's Yeah. It's closer to like 30, it's closer to 30 times their initial investment.
01:27:42
Speaker
And like, if, if, if I make, if I have, you know, 30 times as much but times, as much equity in my house as I paid for it.
01:27:53
Speaker
Right. And I use some of that equity to make upgrades to the house.
01:28:02
Speaker
Like, that's not financially irresponsible. Right. That that's a thing people do all the time and it ends up lot of them benefiting them in the long run because it makes the house worth even more. um Right.
01:28:13
Speaker
Yeah. It's just, it's, I do think that the ah conflating, we never want to run losses with, we run around a sustainable business is a little, it's a neat little rhetorical trick.
01:28:29
Speaker
um Yeah. Yeah. Because an MLS team that never spends money on transfers is not a sustainable business. Like that's, it's not, it's going to get passed up pretty quickly.
01:28:42
Speaker
So. Yep. Well, ah we've gone a little long. We're closing in on an hour and a half. So we probably get a place to call this a segment, but thank you so much for everyone submitting those questions.
01:28:54
Speaker
We'll try to be a little bit more prompt in when we do these, but ah so, you know, we probably like three weeks away. We'll do another one in July. ah With all that said, thank you to everyone.
01:29:05
Speaker
ah If you want to get in on this action, please consider becoming a subscriber at the supporter level or above you'll get access to their discord i'm sure you've heard all about it but it's good times uh thank you to our sponsors full pool wines hacks and ferments and ah yeah thanks aaron thank you lick it i'm jeremiah shan this is no sadie at this and remember you'll never get alone
01:30:00
Speaker
I expect the LAFC who is motivated ah to prove themselves at home, to prove to their fans that that they're capable of winning in this league. And it's up to us to really ruin the party.
01:30:16
Speaker
i feel a lot better than Bob.