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Episode 5: Forests for Sustainable Societies
356 Plays1 year ago
This episode delves into four distinct sections, each shedding light on crucial aspects of the IUFRO World Congress 2024 theme "Forests for Sustainable Societies." We are excited to present the newest episode of Branching Out. Join us as we discuss nature-based solutions (NBS) and links between forests and human health, power and equity in the forest sector and the complexity of forest governance.
Co-hosted by Yasmeen Sands from the USDA Forest Service and Deputy Coordinator of IUFRO‘s Communications and Public Relations Working Party, with Harini Nagendra, Director of the Azim Premji University Research Center and leader of the University’s Center for Climate Change and Sustainability (and keynote speaker at the Congress), Cecil Konijnendijk, Director of the Nature Based Solutions Institute, chaired the Global Forest Expert Panel (GFEP) on Forests and Human Health, Judith Kamoto from the Lilongwe University of Agriculture and Natural Resources in Malawi, and Mónica Gabay, Coordinator of IUFRO Division 9 on Forest Policy and Economics.
We explore how forests are linked to various aspects of sustainable societies, from nature-based solutions and urban forestry, to human well-being and poverty eradication, and to forest ownership, power and equity in the forest sector.
Tune in to Branching Out: the forest podcast on your favourite platform or visit our website to access this episode. And don’t forget to subscribe, share, and join us on this podcasting adventure.
More info at iufro.org
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Transcript
Impact of Urbanization on Forests
00:00:01
Speaker
According to the World Bank, 56% of the world's population, 4.4 billion inhabitants, live in cities today. This trend is expected to continue with the urban population more than doubling its current size by 2050, at which point nearly 7 out of 10 people will live in cities. What are the implications of this for forests?
Introduction to Branching Out Podcast
00:00:28
Speaker
Welcome back to Branching Out, the Forest Podcast, where we connect forests, science, and people. Brought to you by the International Union of Forest Research Organizations, IUFRA. Let's discover the role of forests and trees for people and nature while we unravel complex forest topics and keep you up to date with forest research.
Recap of Past Episodes
00:00:45
Speaker
So far, we have covered general information about the IUFRA World Congress 2024 in Gastocomb.
00:00:51
Speaker
We have talked about forest resilience and adaptation, responsible forests by economy, and the last time we talked about biodiversity and forest ecosystem
Meet the Hosts
00:01:00
Speaker
service. This time, our focus is on forests and people. I'm your host, Jose Oláñez from the IU for Headquarters, and today, here to co-host it is Jasmine Zans from the USDA Forest Service. Welcome, Jasmine. Hi, Jose. Are you excited to be here? I am. Thanks so much for having me.
00:01:15
Speaker
I currently live in Berlin and its landscapes reflect the history in ruins and monuments, but also in redefining the unused spaces as communal gardens, lots of parks that were built in the last 30 years on protected border strips of the former Berlin Wall, such as the Gleistreich Park, also on the banks of the Spread River. And this is super fitting to our first topic,
Nature-Based Solutions in Urban Areas
00:01:37
Speaker
I think.
00:01:37
Speaker
Well, our first speaker comes from India. Harini Nahindra is director of the Azin Pranji University Research Center and leads the university's Center for Climate Change and Sustainability. Over the past 30 years, she's been at the leading edge of research examining conservation in forests and cities of South Asia from the perspective of both landscape ecology and social justice.
00:01:59
Speaker
And she's here today to discuss some related issues. Welcome Harini. Thank you so much. It's a real pleasure to be here. What are nature-based solutions and how can we apply them in urban settings where most of the world's population lives? Nature-based solutions are just a different way of thinking of ecosystems. You know, we always have ecosystems in the city. They might be remnant forest patches. They could be parks where you go for exercise. They could be
00:02:22
Speaker
For instance, in many parts of Asia and Latin America and Africa, there could be sacred spaces where people go to pray and connect spiritually to trees or bodies of water. There could be ponds, lakes, you know, anything that is a natural ecosystem, grasslands and elements of nature. It could be a quarter near balcony, you know, it could be something as simple as that.
00:02:40
Speaker
And when we see nature-based solutions, we're really trying to appeal to people, especially policymakers and planners who are looking for solutions for the city. You and me might not think of water in our balcony with pretty flowers and a butterfly visiting as a solution, but it's good. It's a good marketing way that people have found because policymakers are looking at, should I have a new road here? Should I have a building here? Should I preserve this path? So you're trying to tell them how nature is important in playing a role in health, in
00:03:06
Speaker
spiritual benefits in mental well-being, in blunt resilience, in cleaning the air, in keeping the temperature down, you know, all of the other things that nature does for us, which we don't pay attention to, putting that all under the umbrella of nature-based solutions.
00:03:20
Speaker
especially important in cities because in cities, money seems to drive policy and economic growth is their first priority. And especially, you know, for instance, in the global south, this becomes really important because urban development means only infrastructure. So you have to give them a sense that green spaces, blue spaces are also infrastructure, and hence the term major base solution.
Urban Forestry Benefits and Challenges
00:03:38
Speaker
What are the benefits and challenges of urban forestry?
00:03:41
Speaker
A lot of benefits, really. There are very few downsides to having urban forestry, especially in cities like the Global South, where cities are growing so fast that people have very few access to public spaces. For instance, let's take Bangalore, my city, where we live during COVID times. Of course, as different parts of the world did, everyone tried to escape to a park for some mental stress relief, just a public space that what would go on and just be in the place of nature.
00:04:05
Speaker
But also many other things, high polluted cities like Latin American cities, many Asian cities, many African cities. Trees really helped cut down suspended particulate matter and sulphur dioxide, nitrous oxides and different things like that. They had in tropical cities, many global south cities are in the tropics. They're heating up very fast. So Indian cities are already getting a lot of, for instance, migrant workers who are doing construction, who are the poorest of the poor, really exposed to heat.
00:04:32
Speaker
waves tend to die or get other disorders. You could have a cool space to sleep in in the afternoon if you have an urban forestry. Many other things, you know, there's the spiritual mental health benefits, the physical benefits. We've talked to corporate workers who say that they're in IT parks the whole day working on their computer and they come to the urban forest for some time just to
00:04:52
Speaker
We've talked to mothers of special needs children and they find that these forests calm their children down. These are such great examples of the benefits of urban forestry in communities. Can you speak a little bit about any of the challenges? The benefits are massive and at a city-wide scale, I mean I've spoken about people's benefits.
00:05:09
Speaker
At a city-wide scale, you have cities that are facing sea level rise, so an urban mangrove forest would help protect the city against sea level rise. Urban forests in different parts, let's say a mountain city would help protect it against landslides if there was a huge flood. And similarly, in terms of drought, of course, it's a little more controversial, but there is a lot of evidence showing that in terms of microclimate, it helps to attract more rainfall to the city. So there's a huge number of benefits of urban forests to cities that we don't recognize enough.
00:05:37
Speaker
In terms of the downside, I would say there are only a couple of things that people have pointed to in the literature. The first one is increasingly if you have the heat in cities, especially the global south again, but also northern cities, you have mosquito-related, you know, mosquito epidemics. And mosquitoes do tend to hang out in green spaces a lot. So one needs to be careful about how these are planned, especially if you have stagnant water bodies and how you maintain them.
00:05:59
Speaker
The second is a combination of heat and humidity, because humidity exacerbates heat stress considerably. And especially in the global south, again, if you have trees, they transpire, and then you have more humidity. But they're also important for shade, so there's something in there that there's a combination of heat, which are really new unexplored areas for research, and we need to find out more about these.
00:06:18
Speaker
And in terms of outcomes, we have examples from places like Bangalore Lakes that now attract a lot of birds, the wetlands around Kolkata that are the city's free sewage works, and also a fertile aquatic market garden, and the restoration project in the Adavalli Mountains close to Delhi that helps cool the city. Are there any examples of participatory and inclusive governing and managing in urban forestry?
Citizen Movements and Urban Planning
00:06:39
Speaker
Citizen movements and also learning the rise in across Indian cities, and that has really played a huge role in the protection of trees, especially heritage trees.
00:06:47
Speaker
I mean, the conflict is very easy to see in countries like India. People want roads, but people also want to protect trees. And often you don't see that there's a balance between these two that needs to be achieved. So there are a lot of citizen movements. In Bangalore, for instance, there was a flyover that was supposed to come up. It was called the steel flyover. And then there was a huge social media movement with the hashtag steel flyover, beta. Beta means no one in Canada, the local language.
00:07:10
Speaker
And that really mobilized people to get out of the road. And several scientists, including us, for instance, from my university, the ZPMG University, we did the request of citizens and ecological impact assessment. That was an independent assessment looking at the impact of these trees. And we found that the impacts, both the numbers of trees were far higher than what government estimates showed, and the impact would be far more severe than the government estimates showed.
00:07:32
Speaker
And this add citizen protests together created such a huge push that the government actually took back the project. It was in 2017 and more recently in Hyderabad there was a highway, a national highway that was going to be expanded and there are some heritage Banyan trees there which are centuries old called the Chevala Banyans. And there's been a group that has been mobilizing for a very long time called the Save Chevala Banyans. They filed a public interest litigation.
00:07:56
Speaker
And the High Court recently rolled in their favor saying, no, you can't take away the trees when you widen the highway, which is brilliant because judgments of these kind have a multiplicative effect. Thank you, Haini and Jasmine. Excellent examples of positive impacts of urban forests and citizen involvement. One of the key benefits of urban forest trees and green spaces is their impact on our health. Cecily Kunangendijk is to share
Forests and Human Health
00:08:20
Speaker
of the recent study on forest and human health by the Global Forest Expert Panel, GFEB. I joined the initiative of the Collaborative Partnership on Forests and he is here to give us the summary of five key messages from the report. Welcome Cecil. Good to speak with you Jose and thanks for having me on the podcast. So Cecil, what do you find out about the relationship between forest and human health?
00:08:43
Speaker
First of all, I think the most interesting finding is maybe that it's very clear that forest and trees as well as green spaces are extremely important for our health in many, many different ways. So the report really highlights this, right? Anything from trees in cities, cooling, but also for example, making a sleep better, helping us be healthier to of course, things like nutrition, diverse nutrition to providing rural livelihoods. So I think that one of the nice things with this report is that we are not
00:09:10
Speaker
Let's say in looking at only the more traditional way of looking at forests and trees and health, we really take a very wide perspective and also look at things like zoonotic diseases and ways of maybe reducing those. And of course, the COVID pandemic has really shown that. I mean, there is a clear link also there with forests and mismanagement of forests and wildlife that comes into this. You mentioned zoonotic diseases. Maybe not everybody's aware of what it is.
00:09:33
Speaker
Yeah, sure. So these are diseases that are in animals, right? Um, there could be all kinds of animals, but actually I have the capacity to jump to other species. And in this case, of course, to humans. So, um, so that's actually why, why in the report, we use this perspective of a planetary health or one health also, which really shows that the health of humans, of course, is very closely related to the health of other species, animals, but also actually ecosystems.
Forest Health Report Insights
00:09:58
Speaker
So I think that perspective is really interesting and important to bring forward as well.
00:10:02
Speaker
And what are the key messages derived from the report? The first really big finding, I guess, is that the forest trees, health relations, pure and different life stages. So actually this relations is important even before we're born. So when we're in a mother's body still, there already is an impact of forest and trees on the health of the mother, but actually with that also on the child.
00:10:23
Speaker
And then it goes all the way till till the elderly and how we can have a better life quality spending time, for example, in forested environments. So I think that's really interesting. The report really looks at these kind of life stages and the relation with health and forest. And then also, I think a key finding is that the positive impacts
00:10:40
Speaker
forest and trees on our health by far outweigh some of the more negative impacts. It could be things related to, for example, smoke from forest fires or zoonotic diseases. So actually by far there's a positive impact. So trees and forests are really good for our health and wellbeing are actually essential for us, I would say. So those are the first two key messages. And then the third one is that there is different what we call pathways in which forest and trees impact health.
00:11:04
Speaker
So that could have to do with things like cooling, right? Trees cool, and in that sense, we can feel better and more healthy also during heat waves. That could also have to do with things like providing a diverse food. Pathway could be to let people interact. We're more ready to interact when we're in green environments, and then we have a better social health. So there's really different ways, different paths in which forest and trees impact. And the research, the literature, is becoming more clear in defining those pathways.
00:11:32
Speaker
And the fourth key message, really importantly, is that forest health relations offer solutions to global crises. So things like, for example, zoonotic diseases, if we manage forests better, then we actually have a chance to deal with those diseases better. But of course, climate change is a really big one here. Forest entries, of course, help us not only mitigate climate change, but also adapt, for example, cities and also rural environments to the effects of climate change.
00:11:59
Speaker
And then the fifth key message is that we really need to be better in integrating the perspective of forest trees and health relations into different fields. So not only forestry, of course, but also the medical fields, urban planning, how we deal with rural areas. So we really need more cross-disciplinary cross-sectoral approaches. And I think really the main outreach we have to do as forest sector is to the health sector.
00:12:23
Speaker
there is some interest now in this kind of more planetary health, one health approach, but there's still a limited experience and understanding, I think, of these relationships. So those are the, in brief, the five key messages that we have highlighted in the report.
00:12:37
Speaker
There you have it. Forest trees and green spaces impact human health across all life stages. Positive health outcomes of forest trees and green spaces significantly outweigh negative ones. The health outcome of forests are the result of several pathways that are dependent on context and individual lifestyles. Forest health relations need to be considered when dealing with global crisis and integrative and cross-sectoral approaches need to be adopted to improve forest health link.
00:13:06
Speaker
I can maybe also say that it was really great to work with this very diverse team of experts, colleagues from all over the world. So we had the pleasure to have people with medical backgrounds, people with backgrounds in epidemiology, in tropical ecology and also urban forestry. So we had a really nice group of people and we were very happy that we could bring all our knowledge together.
00:13:24
Speaker
Forest trees and green spaces not only provide healthier environments, but also numerous goods and services, including medicines, nutritious foods, and other nonwood forest products. Medicinal plants, which are particularly important to Indigenous peoples and local communities, IPLCs, provide basic health care for 70% of the world's population. And did you know that low-income neighborhoods tend to have less tree cover and green spaces than rich ones?
00:13:49
Speaker
Judith Komodo, a member of the GFEP on forests and poverty from the Lingloi University of Agriculture and Natural Resources in Malawi, is here to discuss
Forests and Poverty Alleviation
00:13:58
Speaker
this. Welcome, Judith. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure. So, Judith, how can forests contribute to the well-being of the poor as we face profound global challenges, trends of deforestation, degradation, and climate change? Forests can provide for the poor in these conditions of
00:14:17
Speaker
climatic changes in a number of ways. Firstly, forests provide for subsistence that people living close to forests grow in search of food every day. So they collect mushrooms, firewood, non-timber forest products in genome for consumption at home, but they can even sell them, especially in developing countries like in Africa. People would collect and line along the roads.
00:14:47
Speaker
to sell, to get income, and this income goes a long way to support other livelihood activities. For example, paying school fees for children, buying food. Apart from consumption on a daily subsistence, forests also support communities on a commercial basis. They can date timber out of the forest, but in most parts of the continent, charcoal production
00:15:16
Speaker
from forests also provide for families. Because most of the countries depend on biomass energy, they are able to make charcoal and sell at higher prices. In Malawi, for instance, 90% of the households depend on biomass energy in the form of firewood and charcoal. In addition, forests can act as a healthy center. In most of the developing countries, a forest is like a living clinic.
00:15:46
Speaker
for them to be able to support their wellbeing. And again, forests are habitats for animals. So apart from Nantimba forest products that I talked earlier, communities go hunt for small animals and that's a source of protein for them. Of course, in other studies, we have noted that the interaction between humans and animals can be dangerous.
00:16:14
Speaker
And sometimes zoonotic diseases can pass on from animals to human beings, but that doesn't store communities that are very dependent on forests in as far as animal protein is concerned.
00:16:28
Speaker
communities living very close to forests. These forests are a worthy of culture and spiritual well-being. Even graveyards are forested in this part of the continent, and spiritual healing also happens in the forest. Some people actually go in the forest to worship, and they believe that they are connected to their ancestors.
00:16:53
Speaker
And in light of your participation at the IU for a World Congress, could you refer to how science and traditional knowledge can help reconcile poverty alleviation with forest integrity, including biodiversity conservation? There is quite a well of knowledge among its communities that have lived with forests for a very long time and they have passed this knowledge from generation to generation. And these communities know how important forests are.
00:17:20
Speaker
I want to answer this question in such a way that it connects to what we are today in terms of pharmaceuticals and the reliance on forests because of the biodiversity that sits in this forest. For example, in the Amazon, we know to date research is still going on. Researchers go into the Amazon, even in the DRC Congo basin forests.
00:17:48
Speaker
to look for plant material, animal material, genes that have not been discovered. But when they encounter local communities or indigenous peoples that are living in this forest, they rely on their knowledge to get insights about the gene material and therefore
00:18:12
Speaker
some breakthroughs in the pharmaceutical world comes from this. So we can see a link between science in developing medicine, the modern medicines, some of them to the biodiversity that we have.
00:18:29
Speaker
in forested areas and the traditional people that live or indigenous people that live in those forests and based on the traditional knowledge that they have. So there's a linkage between traditional indigenous knowledge and biodiversity and science.
00:18:49
Speaker
Finally, from your perspective, how is forest research conducted in terms of empowerment of women, indigenous peoples, youth, and others that have been marginalized or excluded from the forest sector?
Empowerment in Forest Management
00:18:59
Speaker
Women will not feature in their picture because they are already left out.
00:19:04
Speaker
research that we have conducted with the colleagues in Malawi on youth involvement, we have learned that the youth would like to go into forest management, agriculture, forest restoration, but the youth are looking for modern technology. They are looking for benefits that are tangible from engagement in forest management.
00:19:30
Speaker
And in most of the countries in Africa, the youth dividend, the numbers, the population of the youth is so huge. So we can capitalize on this youth dividend. One, by allowing them access to factors of production, such as land, and using the digital age and technology, engage youth in such ways that
00:19:56
Speaker
they will find it interesting to do forest resolution, forest management, but at the same time also work on tangible benefits, short-term benefits. We know that forest management can be long-term in terms of realizing the benefits, but we can look at the whole value chain and look at the low-hanging fruits that youth can benefit. For example,
00:20:24
Speaker
beekeeping, using species for restoration that can give other benefits. For example, if you plant vetiver, the grass can be used as tea, can restore soil, the roots of vetiver, there are so many things that you can make out of them, essential oils and stuff. So we need to look at different value chains that can give us immediate benefits so that the youth can see the need
00:20:52
Speaker
to engage in a restoration of forest and forest management in general, which generally is believed to be a long-term, benefiting adventure. And for women, we know that in most parts of Southern Africa, where Malawi is sitting, because of the patriarchal systems that have talked about and inability to access inputs of production like land,
00:21:19
Speaker
then we need to think about engaging women in ways that are beneficial for them. For example, the issue of land registration, so that we know that the inheritance of these pieces of land will move from mother to children. And if they are female children, it means they are secured in terms of a future land tenure.
00:21:43
Speaker
So, parceling of land through registration is one way of allowing women to invest on land long-term because they know that forest takes time, but also this land belongs to us. And in addition to that, women in this part of the world, they are doing multiple roles, like in Malawi, 90% of the agricultural is provided by women.
00:22:08
Speaker
And therefore, as we bring in interventions of forest landscape restoration and the other interventions to do with collection of forest products or marketing of forest products, we need to look at all these factors in totality so that we don't overburden women. Thanks, Judith. And did you know that IUFRO's special program for development of capacities, SPDC, supported a forest landscape restoration, FLR project in Malawi? Go to IUFRO's website for more information.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, there's very good information there.
Indigenous Communities and Climate Solutions
00:22:40
Speaker
So now we move into forest governance. Another aspect of involvement is the fight of indigenous communities in the face of deforestation. Some of these communities not only see forests as a source of livelihood,
00:22:52
Speaker
But as part of their identity, their culture and spirituality, as discussed with Judith, actually, and their intrinsic link to human health. Indigenous and local communities, as well as the smallholders, play an important role also in the management of forests worldwide. We invited Monique and the coordinator of the UFRA Division 9.
00:23:11
Speaker
and Division IX's Forest Policy and Economics, and she's also an author of the Forest and Poverty Report, and we invited her to talk about these topics. Monica, welcome, and how can these groups contribute to climate change adaptation, bioeconomy, biodiversity preservation, and creating more just and equitable access to natural resources?
00:23:31
Speaker
Thank you, Jose. We should remember that indigenous communities do not regard nature or forests as something different from themselves. They are an integral part of nature, and of Mother Earth, as they call it. Also, this is very important, the Convention on Biological Diversity in its recent Con vin Montreal framework, which is a strategy
00:23:57
Speaker
that will go on until 2030, has recognized the different worldviews and values of nature. And it also acknowledged the important role of Indigenous peoples and local communities in safeguarding nature and forests.
00:24:13
Speaker
So forests provide home, shelter, medicine, income, almost 30% of their livelihoods. And as such, the indigenous peoples and the local communities as well holders are very important stewards that have made possible
00:24:31
Speaker
to have these native forests in the present health of the ecosystems. Why? Because unfortunately deforestation and land use change has gone on for centuries and it has accelerated in the late 80s with the Green Revolution. And those that sued firm in the forest, protecting the forests and conserving it and using it sustainably, having indigenous peoples and the local communities as more holders.
00:24:59
Speaker
So when we discuss climate change, forests are not only important climatically but as carbon sinks, but they also provide a wealth of environmental services, such as regulation services, which affect climate, but also water, the quality, the quantity, the soil protection. And this contribution has not been sufficiently acknowledged. So right now, we are at the turning point
00:25:26
Speaker
at which we need to face the climate crisis together with the laws of biodiversity and of forests. And it's only now that governments are acknowledging the role of indigenous peoples and smallholders in local communities. So I am very hopeful about that because there are provisions to recognize these services.
00:25:46
Speaker
and also as database solutions as well. You have discussed this with our colleagues, so I will not get in there, but just to recognize that, for instance, Red Plus is an important instrument recognizing the contribution of forests.
00:26:02
Speaker
Monica also studied forest governance in Central America. Her thesis questions were, is the forest governance model based on horizontal and consensus processes possible?
Horizontal Governance in Forestry
00:26:13
Speaker
Under which circumstances is it possible? So now I ask you Monica, is it possible?
00:26:18
Speaker
Well, yes it is, and with a nuance, it is possible as long as there are some prerequisites for this. So first we need to have level play field. We cannot assume that the play field is level because there are power asymmetries in territories. When you have an indigenous community that doesn't have secure land tenure, for instance,
00:26:42
Speaker
They are not in a position to discuss policy or set up the agenda. If you manage to secure land tenure, if you manage to secure gender responsiveness and the inclusion of women who are very much invisibleized in all the diversity and youth, there is a very important role for the governments, the local,
00:27:06
Speaker
and regional governments and national governments in securing these conditions that make it possible for the people that usually are not visible eyes make sure they can sit on the table and discuss an equal footing.
00:27:21
Speaker
What we discuss when we say governance, and governance has been very much used like a black box, but governance must be clarified. So what is governance? It has to do with who makes decisions, who participates, who sets the agenda, who says what's important and what's not, who's there to discuss, who makes the final call, and then how these decisions are implemented, and how they are monitored, and who is affected directly or indirectly with new decisions.
00:27:51
Speaker
All these are aspects of governance and we have a very important tool, which is the provision on free prior and informed consent when it comes to decisions that will affect indigenous communities. We do not have, however, a similar instrument when these decisions will affect local communities or smallholders. So it's very important to make sure, for instance, that the peasants, the campesinos,
00:28:15
Speaker
The people that are there and are not powerful also have the possibility to be consulted and to be involved in decision making. And this is not just to show off or take an item on a list, on a checklist that, okay, we have complied with a safeguard, we made a few workshops.
00:28:33
Speaker
That's not enough. It's not about informing people. It's about listening. It's about taking into account their opinions and their inputs and their thoughts and their concerns and addressing them in a meaningful way. If we can't have that, again, it's possible.
00:28:49
Speaker
It's very important also because indigenous communities as well holders bring a very fresh perspective and of course I'm including women here in the decisions and they provide for innovations also to address the risk associated with climate change because they have experience and they have tools and they have know-how that can address this.
00:29:12
Speaker
for very simple things as how to predict the weather, or when to produce certain crops, or what elements are medicines or food, and also architecture. If you look at the indigenous constructions, for instance, the bailafitos, the houses that are built on swam and places that are not very reliable in terms of floods, they all have this know-how, this ancestral know-how.
00:29:39
Speaker
They know where they can settle, that they don't want not to settle. And this, in the westerns' utilization, has been lost. So all this knowledge is very rich. And so we should take that into account. Also in terms of foods, because climate change is also affecting our crops.
00:29:58
Speaker
and we're used to certain foods, sometimes genetically modified food, but there are lots of nutrition and healthy food in the forest that we don't know how to use. We don't recognize what's illegal or what's not, but indigenous communities too. They have lived with that for thousands of years, so that's another important aspect.
00:30:20
Speaker
I think it's also about the change of mindset instead of having this paternalistic view to see the communities in their dignity, in their full wisdom and knowledge about nature and involving them as equals, not something that's below us. That's not the way. It's a difficult decision though, so many governments don't
00:30:45
Speaker
don't quite know yet how to manage these situations.
ESCASU Treaty and Environmental Defense
00:30:49
Speaker
If I may add something, in Latin America, for instance, we have a very important agreement that's been signed in Costa Rica, your country. It's the ESCASU Treaty. And in ESCASU, there are special provisions for inclusion, for the access to information, because without information, there is no meaningful participation.
00:31:10
Speaker
and also a very important topic, and it has to do with human rights and the human rights approach, the protection of the people involved with environmental defense. I think we have tools. We need to use them and use them in a correct way. That's my grain of sand to this discussion.
00:31:31
Speaker
So thank you Monica, and by the way, international forest governance is the topic of the new study by a UFO science policy program to be presented in the spring 2024. Jasmine, what a great company I have today. Any takeaway messages?
00:31:46
Speaker
Well, Jose, it was great to be here. I really enjoyed our conversation with our experts. So we explored how forests are linked to various aspects of sustainable societies, from nature-based solutions in urban forestry, to human well-being and poverty eradication, and to forest ownership, power, and equity in the forest sector.
Episode Wrap-Up and Teaser
00:32:05
Speaker
Thanks to our guests and to you, our listener.
00:32:08
Speaker
Listen to branching out wherever you listen to podcasts, rate, and review us. On our last episode of the season, we'll explore the topic of forests for the future. Be sure to check out content from IUFRO at IUFRO.org or click on the link in the show notes. Thanks so much for having me.