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Episode 3: The how of forestry
177 Plays3 months ago
Dante Bertocci (International Forestry Students’ Association, IFSA) joins Jose Bolaños (IUFRO HQ) to talk to one of Co-Coordinators of IUFRO Division 3: Forest Operations, Engineering, and Management.
René Zamora-Cristales (Oregon State University and World Resources Institute) explains that this Division focuses on how forestry activities are carried out - from seed collection and forest restoration to logging and resource management. He emphasizes that forest operations go far beyond timber harvesting, playing a key role in biodiversity conservation and forest landscape restoration.
He also highlights that meeting global restoration targets, such as 350 million ha of forest landscapes by 2030 goal set by the UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration, requires careful planning. Without proper operations and engineering, even well-intentioned restoration efforts can fall short.
We invite you to tune in to the Branching Out: the forest podcast. Listen wherever you enjoy your podcasts, and don't forget to follow and review!
More info at iufro.org
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Transcript
Introduction to Season Two and Forest Restoration
00:00:02
Speaker
Just the challenge to say, you know, we are going to restore 300 million hectares of forest, it doesn't say anything if you don't think in the details. Music
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello everyone, this is José Bolaños from the International Union of Forest Research Organizations, IUFRO, the global network for forest science cooperation, and you're listening to season two of Branching Out, the forest podcast.
Overview of IUFRO's Division 3
00:00:30
Speaker
It's great to have you with us as we explore more forest science. In this season, we've talked about the IUFRO Division 1 and 2, and today is the turn of Division 3, Forest Operations, Engineering and Management.
Meet Dante Bertossi: Mycology Enthusiast
00:00:43
Speaker
And here is my co-host Dante Bertossi from the International Forestry Students Association. isa Please go ahead, introduce yourself. Hi Jose, thanks for the intro, it's great to be here.
00:00:55
Speaker
Within the International Forestry Student Association, IFSA for short, I'm currently the head of sub-commission to UFRO, so I act as a liaison between these two organizations, and I'm also currently serving on the board of directors for a youth-led sub-commission for the FAO's Silva Mediterranean called the Mediterranean Youth Task Force, which focuses on raising awareness and challenges in the Mediterranean region.
00:01:17
Speaker
I grew up in Cortona, a rural part of Tuscany, where I developed a deep connection with nature and my surrounding forests. I have a bachelor's degree in landscape architecture from the College of Environment and Design at the University of Georgia in the US and a joint master's degree in forestry and natural resource management, entitled MEDFOR, between the University of Lisbon in Portugal and the University of Valladolid in Spain.
René Zamora-Crystalis: Journey in Tropical Forestry
00:01:38
Speaker
I'm very passionate about mushrooms, so feel free to reach out for any mycology questions you may have. And thanks for having me on today's podcast, Jose. So welcome to Branching Out, Dante! And we also have one of the two co-coordinators of Division III with us.
00:01:52
Speaker
Unfortunately, our Lindros from the Swedish University of Agricultural Science in Umeå, Sweden, could not join us today. So René is here to represent Division III.
00:02:03
Speaker
So, René, could you please introduce yourself and share how you became the co-coordinator of this division? Hi, everyone. My name is René Zamora-Crystalis. I am the co-coordinator of Division III. This year, we have a dual coordination in Iufro where we share this with Ulla. As was mentioned, it could not be here, but he is supporting.
00:02:23
Speaker
I am a forest engineer from Guatemala, where I got my undergraduate
The Mechanics of Forest Operations
00:02:27
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degree. Then worked in many areas of tropical forests. I got a master's degree in forest economics and natural resources in Chile. Later i I had the opportunity to be working again, you know, in tropical operations, forestry in Africa, also South America. And I came back to school to get a doctoral degree at Oregon State University king for in forest engineering.
00:02:47
Speaker
How I got here? I got here basically by supporting IUFOR. IUFOR is a network that really connects you with people that you learn a lot from. And through that learning process, I started to connect more with Division 3, which was close to my area of work. And I started supporting more and more, investing more time, voluntarily, of course, until we were ah elected with Doula as representatives of Division 3 for this term.
00:03:14
Speaker
Wow, that's ah quite the extensive background, René. And for those unfamiliar, what do forest operations, engineering and management involve? The words are very technical in in essence, but it's very simple. It's the division that deals with the how. How we're going to do certain activities on forests. For example, if you need seeds to plant trees, you need somebody to collect the seeds in the forest and you need some equipment to climb the trees, collect the seeds, taking care of the seeds.
00:03:40
Speaker
All of those steps are something we care of in the division. or Sometimes, you know, people associate the division three on personal engineering operations and management with the logging or wood procurement. know But this is beyond that. This is about how
Addressing Reforestation and Deforestation Challenges
00:03:53
Speaker
things are done. And just an analogy, when you go to the supermarket, for example, you have a process. no You go either by bike, walking or getting transport, car. But you need to think all of those steps. You need to bring banks. You need to know what you're going to buy. And then you go back with the product.
00:04:08
Speaker
It's the same. We need to plan, and this is our task in the division, planning every activity so we can get the best outcome of what we need in forest. Well, going out into the forest and collecting a seed can be a pretty big challenge. What are the biggest challenges in this field?
00:04:25
Speaker
We have extreme weather events, forests are less and less because we have high rates of deforestation in many places. So we are very affected by all those and forestry can be one of the solutions to mitigate the effects of extreme weather events or increase biodiversity for people, for nature, and increase opportunities.
00:04:43
Speaker
And seed supply, just that specific question on seed supply is really key. For example, the UN Decad on Ecosystem Restoration calls for restoration of about 200 million hectares. To achieve that target of restoring 200 million hectares with forests, you need seeds. And to get the seeds, you need to then identify where those seeds are.
00:05:02
Speaker
Who is the people that is going to take them with care? How are you going to manage those seeds? Because those are very small, no? You need to take a lot of care with each of them. How are we going to transport them to the place where they need to be? And how are we ensuring those seeds become at least in the future, no So that's a whole challenge and that's why we need forest operations, engineering and management. It is the how, know how we are going to achieve those targets.
00:05:26
Speaker
And anything you do with the forest there poses some safety challenges
Importance of Planning and Diversity in Forestry
00:05:30
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for the people working in the forest. So one of the areas we also care of is the operational occupational safety. know The people that are trying to provide you know the best ah research and science so people can have the equipment and the knowledge to prevent any harm when you do those operations. But on the other side, you know, we also care about the process and the quality and sustainability of the forest. How many seeds are sustainable to harvest in order not to distort the ecological cycle. That's also important. And that's how we coordinate also with other divisions and other experts to come together, you know, and have the best outcome or the best seed supply or the best trees that we can get for degraded areas, for example.
00:06:07
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Just the challenge to say, you know, we are going to restore 300 million hectares of forest. It doesn't say anything if you don't think in the details, no? How we are going to do that. And that's how or why forest operations are more and more and more important. And again, just to highlight, that's just to say, you know, that forest operations in the United States are not only about wood procurement or timber. It's far beyond that. And it touches in so many, from small-scale forestry to large-scale forestry.
00:06:35
Speaker
Forestry and engineering have traditionally been male-dominated fields. What steps is Division 3 taking to encourage gender diversity and inclusion? I think that's challenging all forest sciences, but that has been changing recently. Now there are more women. Forestry is becoming more diverse in terms of the people that are interested in in understanding forest.
00:06:56
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but of the things we are doing, there are several young scientists as part of the network that we are empowering them to be part of, ah euro probably as office holders, deputy coordinators that can support coordinators in the division and can grow in each of the groups.
00:07:10
Speaker
Currently, we have 26% of women participating in in Division III as office holders, and and we would like to increase that more. no But that's the biggest step, especially in this area of operations where Traditionally, was more oriented to having male-dominated workforce, but this is changing not only because of our efforts, you know, society changing too. And these ah activities that before were not associated with women in this case are now changing, no are more open and then recognizing that there is some opportunity here to bring diversity and also to have better outcomes by having a diverse workforce and a diverse group of scientists in this space.
00:07:50
Speaker
Maybe a good moment to note that wasn't by choice that there was a lack of ah woman force on this podcast. But my next question for you was that I guess this division requires a lot of fieldwork. I'm sure you'll agree with me. Can you recount a surprising moment that you experienced in the field or perhaps an unexpected challenge with machinery or a breakthrough that changed your perspective?
Collaboration and Field Challenges
00:08:15
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The key aspects of forest operations is the planning. Planning carefully each of the steps and planning for the best but expecting the worst because that's how life happens to be, no? I remember there was one time that we we went into the field and the challenge was particularly evident that we were exploring a forest, a reforestation, and the key was to assess how The trees were growing and they were growing okay. And what we saw initially know was a pretty nice forest coming back.
00:08:44
Speaker
But then as soon as you take the crew and the team into the forest, we started looking at different diseases that were coming into that forest and that were affecting that forest in patches. and The reason of that was certain species were competing, nor are animal species, no were competing and and basically killing some of those trees, but you cannot see because there were like patches in there. know But by working and planning together with the crew, nor the field crew, these operations, you can start looking at alternatives to to save that forest and allow not the forest to die, no?
00:09:20
Speaker
And that was a good experience of showing just collaboration, no? That is not depending on the foresting you need or the scientists. You need to work with the people in the ground that is doing the work and that knows, you know, where these problems are happening so you can take the best decision.
AI in Forest Operations: Enhancing Human Decision-Making
00:09:34
Speaker
But everything depends on how well you plan the activity in the first place.
00:09:39
Speaker
We can't go without mentioning what's on lots of people's minds. Artificial intelligence, AI. Can you share an example of how artificial intelligence is being used in the field today and that is maybe applicable worldwide?
00:09:53
Speaker
How could it change forestry in the years to come? There is a lot of, of course, so talk about artificial intelligence and the role of AI in forestry and many areas, chat GPT, all ah now tools that we have no that are changing the world very fast. But in terms of forest operations, one of the areas that we were pioneering in Division 3 and sharing with other divisions is using mathematical programming in natural resources. how you use mathematics or more specifically operation research to plan better your activity. And that is as simple as when you have Google Maps, for example, that you click on, I want to go from my house to work. And Google Maps give you optimize, no, through different routes that you might take and shows you the one that is more cost effective in time and other variables. And that's optimization, so that's mathematical programming.
00:10:44
Speaker
And we have been using some of those tools in the past for many years to plan better activities in the ground. We are going to cut a tree that has been growing for 30 years. We need to maximize that tree to become furniture houses, the products that we need in a society to live and improve our livelihoods.
00:11:01
Speaker
So AI, in essence, not not to lose the threat, is that AI can contribute to improve the information we get into those planning models so we can get better outcomes.
00:11:11
Speaker
And give you an example. We have satellites right now. Satellites take ah images of the Earth and we can now see trees. But the question is how we can identify trees individually, for example. And AI can help us with these algorithms that are learning through information. how to detect where the trees are, what is the height of the tree, probably what condition is the tree, no? And if we feed that information into planning models, we can have better outcomes because we have more better input and then we will have better outcomes. Another example when you have a tree and you want to use that tree for different products in forest, the more you know about the tree, the shape, the height, the form,
00:11:49
Speaker
the better you can get products and maximize the use of that tree. And AYAG, again, can help by in interpreting these pictures and taking all kinds of analysis so you can have more better information.
00:12:02
Speaker
So that's ah that's a simple use, not that we acknowledge it could happen in our day by day. There are others like drones, of course, you know, we all know about that. And drones work with that artificial intelligence and can map small areas.
00:12:16
Speaker
But, you know, there are different uses we can learn from. And just to say again, artificial intelligence as mathematical programming are only decision support tools. Basically, the decision has to be taken by people, by by people that know the place, experts, people in the ground. It's not the last word that you will get from a model. It's still a model.
00:12:36
Speaker
I think that's very comforting to hear that the last decision is not being made by the computer.
Closing Remarks and Future Episodes
00:12:42
Speaker
I was going to say, if I had to add something, well, that's the challenge, right? That's the goal trying to achieve ah development, innovation, while integrating human, nature and technology and having nature be the driver of innovation rather than the other way around.
00:12:59
Speaker
i think that's the the ultimate goal. Now I have a lot of ideas of what the Division 3 does, which is very good. So all the how, that's a good one.
00:13:10
Speaker
And I like the analogy of going to the supermarket and every step you go before you can get there and get your groceries. That makes it very clear. Also the biggest challenge, and of course, this idea of how we incorporate artificial intelligence into the decision making to gather information, to make better decisions.
00:13:28
Speaker
And with that, I'd like to thank you, René, for being here today and to my co-host especially. Excellent job, Dante. And thank you to our listeners. By the way, if you want to hear about Forestry 5.0, which has a lot to do with this division, we talked about this on episode 6 from last season.
00:13:47
Speaker
Look out for our next Branching Out episode, where we'll explore the fourth division of Iufro. And if you want to know more about Iufro, follow our social media or click on the link on the show notes.