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How to Embrace a Healthy "Content Diet": Nemanja Zivkovic
54 Plays4 years ago
How much content do you consume?
Most of us probably overdose on reading, watching, and listening to content.
There’s so much great content available that it’s hard to resist.
I would argue that most of us need to be more structured, disciplined, and focused.
Nemanja Zivkovic has an interesting approach.
He’s on a “content diet”.
Nemanja consumes content selectively and judiciously and relies on a few go-to resources but tries to stay above the fray.
It allows him to be strategic about content consumption as opposed to gorging out at the content buffet.
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Transcript
Introduction to Marketing Spark Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
You're listening to Marketing Spark, the podcast that delivers insight, tools, and tips from marketers and entrepreneurs in the trenches in 20 minutes or less. Over the past six months, I've reached out to many marketers to do this podcast. Some have specific expertise, and others offer great and interesting insight into marketing strategies and tactical execution.
Guest Introduction: Nemanja Divkovic
00:00:23
Speaker
One of these people is Nemanja Divkovic, the CEO of Funky Marketing in Serbia. Welcome to Marketing Spark.
00:00:31
Speaker
Hey man, thanks for having me. You've got a very active presence on LinkedIn and you cover a wide variety of topics.
Challenges in B2B Differentiation
00:00:39
Speaker
And one of the topics that jumped out to me recently was your interest in brand positioning. And I've noticed growing interest among BB brands in differentiating themselves and really carving out a distinct profile in the marketplace.
00:00:56
Speaker
And I'm curious from your perspective and the work that you've done with clients is why do you think B2B companies struggle with differentiation?
00:01:05
Speaker
There are multiple reasons for that basically because they don't know who they are as themselves. So when somebody has started the company, they didn't think about their story and what is their story. They didn't then hire people based on their story. They didn't create the culture, the values, and they didn't build on that. So
00:01:26
Speaker
Kind of it's always about about the basics and how we covered the foundation and then when we start developing the company and everything still should be like blend and then we just feeling within within the.
00:01:43
Speaker
whole marketplace. B2B has always been a place where everything is foggy, blurry, people tend not to be different, not to stand out. We're just doing our job, talking about ourselves, talking about our products, our features. B2B companies are still thinking about the
00:02:03
Speaker
their target group as the company, like as the object, not as we have a certain specific person from that company that we need to target. So those are all the reasons why it's happening.
00:02:17
Speaker
One of the interesting things that if you look at the MarTech landscape, now there are thousands and thousands of companies and no B2B company has a, none of them are unique. There's dozens if not hundreds of companies doing the exact same thing with the exact same benefits and features, yet differentiation is still something they struggle with. You would think that they would double down on trying to carve out
00:02:42
Speaker
brand positioning that's compelling and distinct. Is it because it's hard or is it because they're just not focused on it? It's definitely hard and it's something that you need to work on persistently. And their way of seeing the differentiation is kind of different and not right. I think nobody has influenced them when it comes to differentiation, when it comes to what does it mean to be different.
Importance of Content Marketing
00:03:08
Speaker
Like one of the examples that i saw like i think two weeks ago is the company that when i asked them like they are doing the online events software and i asked them like why are you different from all the others this is a good competitive industry competitive field so what differentiate you from the other they say like we have the lowest price.
00:03:28
Speaker
it's something that cannot be a differentiator because like tomorrow you somebody else my lower their prices and then what happens you lose the only differentiation that you think you have and a lot of those companies especially in the field where i am in like b2b tech.
00:03:47
Speaker
and software companies, a lot of them have as their biggest assets, the people. And somehow they struggle to show those assets to the world. And by doing that, just by doing that, they will differentiate yourself.
00:04:02
Speaker
themselves but because there are multiple reasons because they are not doing it and some of the things are they are still afraid what they might write let's say on LinkedIn what they may say what are some things they can think about the company they might hurt them there's a fear present the reasons for all all this is basically the lack of culture the lack of values in the company and the lack of culture
Effective Content Distribution
00:04:33
Speaker
One of the ways that many B2B companies have tried to stand out this year is through a focus on content marketing. But I would suggest that a lot of it has to do with publication, creation and publication. There hasn't been enough emphasis on successful content distribution.
00:04:53
Speaker
when you work with clients or you look at the landscape in general what are some best practices that you are suggesting to make sure contents discovered cuz one thing to make contents another thing to actually have it consumed and do whatever you needed to do whether it's attract leads or build brand awareness or track media attention any thoughts on successful content distribution.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's a great topic and we can continue from what we just talked about. So people that work in those companies, those are like the great points for the content distribution. When we start working with companies, a lot of them have already published content on the website. This is actually
00:05:35
Speaker
In most cases, good content based on the SEO but written only for the search engine, not written for the people and it's possibly shared one or two times on the company pages and
00:05:50
Speaker
probably just employees saw it, maybe their friends or relatives and that's it. Those are not their target groups and people for whom they are creating the content. So to be able to distribute it to the right people, we need to do a lot of different things. First one is that we need to create the content
00:06:13
Speaker
with those people that we are targeting. So we need to invite clients, people from our target groups, target companies to come and create content with us, kind of like the thing that we are doing right now. So recording podcasts, maybe also recording video, distributing that then on YouTube when it comes to video, Encore, Spotify, Apple, or whatever, when it comes to the audio, then
00:06:41
Speaker
Are you going out the platform where are the group is so let's be to be it's mostly on indian so then we repurpose that content in.
00:06:51
Speaker
five to eight pieces of content, smaller ones, up to 10 minutes because of the LinkedIn limitation. So we have audiograms, we have videos with headlines, with transcriptions, then we have also quotes from those things, then we can come up with blog posts, like hire a ghostwriter to write a blog post out of.
00:07:12
Speaker
those things and we get a lot just from a few buckets of content. Then we can share it also on Medium, we can share it on Zest, on all different kinds of platforms. If we involve even Reddit and maybe Quora, then
00:07:30
Speaker
You see how we get from one piece of content, we get so many different touches with the potential clients and the audience, and we give them the choice to kind of choose their own way of how they're going to learn from us, how they're going to interact with us, and eventually when they're educated enough, come and convert or buy from us.
00:07:55
Speaker
But that's a lot of work. I mean, you have to obviously have the content in the first place. Then you have to create a distribution strategy, and then you have to repurpose all the content. So how do you organize that? How should someone, for example, take a podcast and then carve it up into different pieces so that you can distribute it to the different platforms and the different services?
00:08:18
Speaker
Actually, it's not that hard. In funky marketing, it was just three of us, and we managed to distribute content to a lot of places. It's just about how you figure out the priorities. So the first person that I hired was the video editor. So we can edit the videos, repurpose them, and create different kind of batches of videos outside of main content pillars.
00:08:47
Speaker
And it's also how you actually create the content. If you create the content with distribution in mind, so let's say we create the podcast, you ask questions, then I answer, then we go in the circles. So we actually create the content purposely for distribution.
00:09:06
Speaker
And this is actually how we do it. Just create the content with distribution in mind, not with search engines in mind, but it should be the content that is consumable by the people. Also one thing that I forgot to mention before is advertising. Facebook and Instagram advertising, especially in B2B, people don't consider it as a successful channel.
00:09:34
Speaker
but it's because they are always trying to get leads, but those channels are very good for distributing content so the right people can consume
Learning and Innovating in Marketing
00:09:44
Speaker
it. This is also one of the things that can accelerate for the content strategy to work and can shorten the sales cycle as well.
00:09:54
Speaker
It really is interesting to look at how content is being created and the fact of the matter is a lot of content is still being tailored for search engines as opposed to, as you said earlier, people. And I think that's a really interesting insight. And I think one LinkedIn post that you published recently that caught my attention
00:10:14
Speaker
is you talked about why you don't pay for online courses or paid communities and you only consume content from a few people. And I'm really curious about why you take that approach. And as important, how do you improve and upgrade your marketing skills?
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of interesting. I mean, I made a point based on like it's I think my 10th year working in marketing. And when I started, I knew how to do let's say community, social media, the one thing that was missing was the SEO. So the agency when it started to work.
00:10:48
Speaker
they gave me access to multiple online courses and I listened first to some of them covering the SEO, then I started to implement it and I think that was the maybe two or three courses, the only ones that I ever enrolled. I didn't pay for them, the company paid and I don't have anything against like paying for anything that will
00:11:14
Speaker
give me value. But I just didn't find something that will help me learn. I usually learn by doing, by interacting with people. And that's why I created my own way of consuming content. I consume a lot of things on YouTube. I listen to a lot of podcasts. And I think a year and a half ago, I decided I don't need to follow
00:11:41
Speaker
social media week or those kind of like huge platforms that the media, they're talking about social media, what are the trends, what's going to happen. I just need to focus on a few people since some focusing on B2B, on Inbound, there are like less than five people that are doing something that is revolutionary in the field.
00:12:01
Speaker
And I need to focus on them and try to learn from them, try to compare some things that they are doing to what I'm doing.
Engaging with Marketing Leaders
00:12:11
Speaker
And that's how I improve. And I also focus on two different things. First one is always innovating, always having a client, which is possibly startup. So I can get into the dirt and see what's going on. Because from the dirt, you can predict what's going to happen.
00:12:28
Speaker
Afterwards not by just seeing the big picture, the big picture is being seen by being involved in dirt and also the second one is talking with the clients, current and potential one. I'm spending two to three hours a day just talking with people doing different things and sharing experiences and that's actually how I grow and how I learn.
00:12:57
Speaker
Just out of curiosity, that small group of marketers who you follow, do you want to reveal any of them or are they kind of like the mania secret? Yeah, let's say, I mean, I learned a lot from Chris Walker. Yes, a lot of people do. Yeah, some of the things that he's doing, I've been doing a lot because we work in different industries, but I also come from B2C background.
00:13:23
Speaker
And I kind of saw that something that I was doing, I kind of recommended that he was talking about it. So, okay, it makes sense. Jake Dunlap is one from sales that I love because he's talking a lot about live sales, sales being involved in marketing, marketing being involved in sales, alignment, those kinds of things. Also, Dave Gerhard has always been a guy that's doing something
00:13:52
Speaker
Differently, I remember, it was 2018, I think, where I was director of operation in the previous agency where I work at. We ordered conversational marketing, the book that Dave and David Council wrote.
00:14:09
Speaker
And like two weeks after we got the book, the postman came and we receive another book called It One Scale, the small book of like, I think 47 things that Drift has done to create the hyper growth company. And we didn't order that book.
00:14:31
Speaker
They just send it over from US to Serbia for free for us as an additional value. And then I saw that actually they are doing really good things. And that's how you give value to somebody that you don't even know and lives in different content. And yeah, those are like maybe three people that I'm following. Also, Peplaya is one of those that are following for a long time.
00:14:58
Speaker
We just recorded the podcast together, so kind of interesting how the things are going.
Funky Marketing's Journey and Strategies
00:15:03
Speaker
You know, there are people that you look up to, that you compare yourself to, and then you start cooperating with them and working with them and things move to the next level.
00:15:11
Speaker
Interesting about Dave get hurt because he has this community I think of more than 10,000 people now who pay $10 a month to access I guess exclusive content and other things that you can't get if you're not a subscriber. So what do you think of those type of communities where you're paying $10 or $15 a month? How does it align with your view of not paying for a lot of marketing
00:15:36
Speaker
I think I'm a member of that community, actually the only one, just intrigued to find out what's going on out there and how are things going. But I'm okay with that. If that is something that works for you, I think limiting the access to your community is a short term goal that can give you a lot in the short term, but if you focus on the long term,
00:16:00
Speaker
This is not something that I would do or something that I would recognize. I also have the community of like 2,500 people on Facebook. It's a private community, but it's always open depending on how people answer a few questions. And we just give value over there, not trying to sell them anything or not trying to
00:16:22
Speaker
to anything else. But in Dave's case, I think because it's a paid community, it gives him the chance to also do some other stuff and to involve maybe other content creators, other professionals, and to grow more in the community. I think he's doing a really good job with that. So let's talk about funky marketing, which I think launched earlier this year. Is that true? Is it a relatively new company? Yeah, January 13th.
00:16:52
Speaker
So just before COVID, it must have been an interesting year. And I'm wondering what it's been like to run a digital marketing agency this year. What's it like to work with clients? And what are they looking for as opposed to what they may have been doing pre-COVID? And what are some of the biggest business lessons that you've learned this year?
00:17:12
Speaker
It was an interesting development because I left the previous agency where I work at just before it was in October that year and I was preparing the wedding and I didn't have any money left on the side. So I just sat down and wrote what's going to happen in the next three months and ending with January when I'm going to register the company.
00:17:41
Speaker
and just executed on that. And that's how I started. At first, I didn't know who I was targeting. I just knew that I want to focus on inbound, on brand, because I was working in performance marketing on a high level, and I saw it work.
00:17:58
Speaker
But I saw it that it also has a plateau and it works until you have the budget. But if you want to grow more and continue growing, then you need to invest in inbound, you need to invest in brand, in content.
Impact of COVID-19 on Marketing
00:18:11
Speaker
I was always like the guy who was investing in his personal brand and content. That's how everything started. I actually landed the first client in like five hours after we published the landing page. It was just a simple landing page with a CTA and
00:18:29
Speaker
and download the strategy of like 30 pages with examples and results that I have with other clients. So it can be a document of value even without them hiring us. So that's kind of the start. When the COVID started, a lot of clients reached out to me. They wanted me to take over.
00:18:53
Speaker
some other stuff that I didn't do at the time because it was easier for them to instead of hiring someone to get to us. So the first, the previous plan was for me to take a year to learn more about entrepreneurship because I knew about marketing but entrepreneurship was something different.
00:19:11
Speaker
but it doesn't go as you imagined. So I needed to hire people. Actually they found me because they love my story. They love the brand and everything that I was building. So they reached out to me. That's how I hired two guys, which are still with us. And some of the clients that I started to work, they're also still with us. And we are ending the year like closing 31 clients doing exactly what
00:19:38
Speaker
the strategies that we are selling to the clients. So kind of proving that some things are working and it's kind of different. When I compare this year to the previous year, overall e-commerce space grew a lot. I think we move like maybe 10 or even 12 years in the future. Within a few months, people
00:20:03
Speaker
and needed to do the digital transformation faster. They needed to open online shops. They needed to transform their businesses and kind of change the whole narrative and the way people think about things. Also, it changed the way they look at the content, that thing that you mentioned, because they
00:20:23
Speaker
Content became more something that is relevant because they couldn't focus on advertising when it comes to pandemic and those kinds of things. That's, I think, how the narrative was changed. Now, what's going to happen in the next year? Probably, we're going to move more towards customers.
Future of B2B Marketing
00:20:41
Speaker
We're going to go to meet them.
00:20:44
Speaker
Halfway even more than that because we are seeing what b2c companies are doing like spotify Netflix Airbnb is some great examples and the people who will expect that from also from cola from other companies and especially from b2b companies.
00:21:02
Speaker
And I think it will change the way B2B companies actually do marketing because they will need to invest in creativity, in feelings, in emotions and people before everything else. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? So what do you mean in terms of this focus on customers? I mean, is it different types of content? Is it interacting with customers directly? What's involved in terms of this shift that you envision?
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we can even talk.
00:21:35
Speaker
using some of the examples, not like Netflix, Airbnb, or some else. But when it comes to that, if you're using them, you know that they are giving you personalized experience. So based on how you consume their services, their product, they are recommending you what you should do next. And they are interacting with you in that way on social media, through email, in all kinds of different forms.
00:22:10
Speaker
Cravie, for example, is doing, or Gong, how people from their companies are interacting with others on LinkedIn. This is by focusing on personal brands of the people in front of the company. They are meeting their potential customers over there. They are talking with them every day, engaging, not only through personal profiles, but on the company pages.
Creative Marketing Examples
00:22:33
Speaker
just let's just take a look at like what
00:22:34
Speaker
An example like Gong,
00:22:36
Speaker
even organized the party on zoom and they were sharing the songs or their LinkedIn company page and discuss like who likes hip hop, who likes gangsta, funk, who likes some other things and it was like totally a party on the LinkedIn page and it's totally some other experience which before that were limited to B2C companies.
Personal Interests and Global Networking
00:23:03
Speaker
That's going to be a really interesting trend to watch this year. Now, speaking of music, you recently published a year-end playlist featuring 940 songs. I think that's enough. Those are enough songs to get you through the entire holiday. Tough question for you. Who is your favorite artist of 2020?
00:23:20
Speaker
Yes, it's the playlist where I'm adding songs as I like something I just added to the playlist. That's a tough question. I apologize for asking that because you must like a lot of music. It's cool. Usually people don't ask, and I love to talk about music. Like Outstanding Hybrid Minds or maybe St. John. Those are two artists that I was listening to the most, and then there are always some
00:23:46
Speaker
some classics that I'm listening to, like Lime Gallagher, Bruce Springsteen, Leonard Cohen, those are like people that I'm always listening to, you know, no matter which year it is. Well, I think that anyone who likes The Boss is a good person in modern art. I've seen them in concert a lot. If I can give you a suggestion, at least from the Canadian perspective, there's a band called the Arkels, which have done some really great work and they're amazing to see live. So maybe one day they'll eventually make their way to Serbia and you'll be able to see a Canadian band in action.
00:24:15
Speaker
Yeah, you know, what's interesting, like the first marketing agency that I work at was, was an agency based in based in Toronto, Canada. Yeah, health, health, Serbian, health, US health, Canadian agency, like the founder, there were two founders, all both were from Serbia, but one of them moved to Toronto, like when he was a kid. And it was kind of interesting. Yeah, it is a very small world. And what I've discovered from LinkedIn this year is that the world
00:24:45
Speaker
is a big place, but you can connect with people anywhere and everywhere. And our ability to connect via LinkedIn and being able to do this podcast is just some of the value that I've seen from LinkedIn this year.
Podcast Conclusion and Connections
00:24:58
Speaker
And I really want to thank you for being on the podcast. It's great to get your insight. It's really interesting to get different perspectives from people who live in different places. We're looking forward to seeing you in 2021.
00:25:11
Speaker
One final question, if people want to learn more about you and Funky Marketing, where do they go online? I think they're everywhere, like mostly LinkedIn, there's a Facebook group also called Funky Marketing. Funky Marketing on YouTube, on Encore, there are like a few podcasts. We're organizing Funky Marketing podcasts, also be weekly podcasts, but I mean, just type Funky Marketing in Google search, and I think that is the right way to get to us.
00:25:40
Speaker
Thanks for listening to another episode of Marketing Spark. If you enjoyed the conversation, leave a review and subscribe via iTunes or your favorite podcast app. For show notes of today's conversation and information about pneumonia, visit marketingspark.co, funky marketing. If you have questions, feedback, I'd like to suggest a guest. I want to learn more about how I help B2B companies as a fractional CMO consultant and advisor, send an email to mark at marketingspark.co. I'll talk to you next time.