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The Wonderful Winter Wheeler, Mediator, Speaker & All-Around Powerhouse (Pt. 2)
108 Plays2 years ago
In this week's episode, join Chris Osborn for part 2 of a lively and inspiring interview with Winter Wheeler, a wonderful, winsome, and winning litigator from Atlanta, who picked a paralyzing pandemic period to pivot her practice to all mediation and strike out on her own. You'll hear how she drew upon past experiences when life had thrown her some major curveballs (such as navigating Hurricane Katrina while at law school in New Orleans!) to once again persevere and prosper in spite of a perplexing predicament. Pooped parents will also appreciate her pronouncements on maintaining proper perspective about your performance. Stay in Winter Wheeler's Loop! https://www.winterwheeler.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/winterwheeler/ https://www.instagram.com/themediatenow/ https://znap.link/themediatenow https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdeoSy7ydQuLh_o7CwHPozw
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Transcript
Introduction of Winter Wheeler
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome back to The Thriving Lawyers Podcast. In this week's episode, join Chris Osborne for part two of a lively and inspiring interview with Winter Wheeler, a winning litigator from Atlanta who picked a paralyzing pandemic period to pivot her practice to all mediation and strike out on her own.
Constructive Communication
00:00:21
Speaker
And there's ways to express a concern without making you feel like crap for even having an ambition and trying.
00:00:30
Speaker
You don't have to like squish you to say, you know, we're a little worried about your caseload or your hours or something. Can we talk about this so we have a realistic conversation?
Career Transitions and Support
00:00:40
Speaker
There's ways to do that and at least leave you feeling some dignity and support for having an ambition. Right. And so luckily I am who I am. Um, it did not deter me. It in fact did the opposite. I was like, yes, you can only imagine. I went, uh,
00:01:01
Speaker
finished that conversation. I was very polite to her. Um, got up and left. I went to my desk. I typed up my resignation letter and right then I called my husband and I said, I'm done. I am done here. And he said, Oh, thank God. It's finally, finally it's time.
Discovering Mediation Skills
00:01:24
Speaker
And what was he referring to? Like what, what had he noticed or experienced that was glaring that there was this disconnect?
00:01:32
Speaker
He knew it wasn't what I wanted to be doing. He knew it wasn't what I was supposed to be doing. Mediation is something that is so natural for me. It's almost hard to explain it or describe it. It's it's just like this innate talent that I have. I mean, people are born with all kinds of things and I have a talent for
00:01:56
Speaker
having really difficult conversations with people and I'm cool with it. I can say anything. Anything can come out of my mouth and I do not flinch.
Chris's Transition to Mediation
00:02:07
Speaker
Right. Well, and you've also got, what I've done, one of my trainings that I've done several times is adopting a mediation mindset. And I put on this program because as I was starting to do some mediations, I recognized that not a lot of lawyers come into mediation with the mediation mindset, expecting it to be
00:02:26
Speaker
productive or meaningful or anything. They're like, I got to be here, check this box. They've told the client, they make us do this. It's worthless. The other side's a loser. We don't want to pay all this stuff. It doesn't matter which side of the aisle you're on, you get some of those folks. I remember in my mediation training, when I first taught that training, I remember realizing that I had train wrecked or at least complicated every mediation I had done as an advocate.
00:02:51
Speaker
Of course, I didn't have that mindset. Because I was so, I'm going to show them how strong I am, and we're going to pound them in
Winter's Bold Career Moves
00:02:58
Speaker
all this. And I was pissed off for 30 minutes, from which they had to come down, be able to have the kind of conversation we're going to have that day. And when that light bulb went off for me, I was like, boom. And then it took about four or five, well, it actually took for me, it took leaving law practice altogether to teach law school.
00:03:16
Speaker
And then kind of coming back to it and going, okay, we don't want to be when I grow up as a lawyer. And going, my personality actually is so much more like yours wired towards how can it help us hear each other?
00:03:30
Speaker
And how can we navigate things that are hard? And I used to be that guy. I used to be like, sure, I'll argue with you. Sure, I'll respond to your 20 defenses with my 20 paragraphs and all that stuff. Yes, with me too. But I've realized as I've embraced mediation and then collaborative, civil collaborative and collaborative family practice, this is the place I want, I love to be.
00:03:50
Speaker
I'm actually, I've got this visceral antagonism towards litigation now. I'm like, come on. And it's a mindset thing. It's like, this is so not productive. I know you have to do it sometimes.
Value of Mentorship
00:04:03
Speaker
And I don't want to, I'm not, you know, all you thriving lawyer listeners who are litigators out there. I love y'all. I'm glad y'all are doing what you do. I just had to acknowledge finally, I don't fit there anymore. It's not because I can't do it. I can still quit, finally. It doesn't grab me.
00:04:19
Speaker
I think I've got better skills, like you're saying. I've better deployed this space. Absolutely. Absolutely. My husband knew that too. We've been married for a long time. He's funny though. Once I left the law firm, I said that I retired. I always tell people I've retired.
00:04:47
Speaker
Because everybody wants a mediator who's retired, right? Like, I don't litigate smart retired. And he's like, had you taken certification training or anything at that point? No, no, I mean, I quit. Listen, when I tell you I'm like a jumper, I quit my job. Wow. I gave
00:05:06
Speaker
It wasn't even two weeks notice. I think this, this conversation happened on a Tuesday and I was like, that's good enough. We're going to go out to this, this whatever Friday it was. I think it was a payday. So it made sense. Okay. And how much, how much time passed between the, the John Miles conversation and the new partner conversation? Was that like real together or at any time? I mean, it was probably a month, maybe less, but still still all fresh.
Mentorship Impact
00:05:33
Speaker
You're just waiting caseload you're like.
00:05:35
Speaker
I got to get out of here. I now know what I want. And I've done my time enough to change this. Yeah. Listen, we didn't tell you like John Miles, and I don't want to like talk about him a ton, but when I tell you this man, he, I mean, vision beyond vision, he is amazing. And he, he saw all of this in me already. But that's huge to have somebody.
00:06:03
Speaker
see that and see how it resonates with you and see that you've got the skills for this, you just need to meet the right people, the right opportunities, and they're in a position to help you that. Exactly. Exactly. A gift. Exactly.
00:06:21
Speaker
And of course, that was helping with the confidence level when I had that conversation with a partner. And I was just like, listen, the master at this. As I said, I think you might have it. You can do this, yeah. Right. Thank goodness you had that voice. Thank goodness you had that belief. I mean, another takeaway for our listeners is the power of somebody just believing in you
00:06:49
Speaker
Sometimes it's as formal as a mentorship or a sponsorship kind of role. You can't be underestimated. Real quick story. I worked in a small internship defense firm. I got an opportunity to clerk for a federal judge, a federal magistrate judge at an odd time. It worked perfectly for me. It was great timing. And then I did that for a couple of years and realized, okay, I want to get back to practice. And I went to a very small law firm.
00:07:14
Speaker
It was not a fit and I did not realize it. I was sort of frog in a boiling pot of water. There were some disconnects there that I couldn't put my name on. It's not like anybody screamed at me and beat me when I came in the door. It wasn't anything bad like that, but it was just not supportive and it was kind of inflating in a way I didn't even know.
00:07:32
Speaker
And so they eventually let me go.
Pandemic Challenges and Opportunities
00:07:34
Speaker
And my response at first was like, excuse me, have you seen my pedigree? Do you know where I went to law school and what I'm doing? And you're letting me go? What? And I was also like, this is bizarro world. This is not something I'm prepared for. I felt shame all this stuff. I ended up landing at a different law firm, one that I had actually interviewed for at the same time.
00:07:56
Speaker
as I had interviewed this small firm, but I thought the smaller firm would be a little bit better path to partnership. But I really liked the people in the medium sized law firm. Well, they gave me a job. And anyway, I went to work for a mentor, a great lawyer named Neil, but his, it was like I went to work for the exact doppelganger of who I had been working for. Somebody who was critical and negative and looking for the flaw and the mistake most of the time. It's a good legal skill, but it's not a great management skill. Right.
00:08:26
Speaker
I went to work for this guy who would say, he'd say, I was thinking about you this weekend when I was mowing my lawn and I'm so glad you're here. I'm like, really? You're like, wait a minute. I'm 28. I'm like, maybe I'm 30. I'm 30 by that point. I'm like, you can do this? Because I was starting to think I couldn't because everything was just critical. But so the value of somebody, you can do this. You should shape it. I'll shape you or I'll give you what you need. It cannot be underestimated.
00:08:55
Speaker
It makes the entire difference. Yeah, definitely. You know, it was it was like his not even like it was his stamp of approval. Yeah. And gave you something you gave you ability to believe so that when somebody else. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I knew you knew you knew already. OK, then you had the confirmation. I had the confirmation that he was going to be behind me. Yes, that's it.
00:09:23
Speaker
That was what I needed. I was so used to having the negativity that when he was positive and he saw me, I gravitated toward it, right? So take this then through, because you said at one point it was also a difficult decision. It was. And then, and this is November of 19, then, you know, that you're about to emerge on the scene as a mediator and
00:09:53
Speaker
in the DAGM pandemic hits and the book shuts down. How did that feel? That is when I fell apart. There were so many things going on. My husband is a professional musician. He's with a popular local band. They actually play all over the country.
00:10:12
Speaker
But that, of course, requires him to be out of our house and in public. So he suddenly went from being booked three, four days a week to zero. Oh my gosh, because there's no live events at all. No live events. And so when we were making the decisions about what I was going to do, I was giving up my very large income. We were just going to rely on him.
00:10:38
Speaker
You know think you know exactly so thank God, I mean he's he's very successful He has actually he's still been able to work clearly not nearly as much But that was very helpful while I was What's the name of the band real quick you got to put a plug in for the band who are they? They are called. Yeah, they are called Electric Avenue. They are in 80s cover band and
00:11:04
Speaker
They're amazing. They are the best 80s cover band in, at least in the Southeast. They play all over the country. I mean- I love it. Named after the Eddie, was it Eddie Grant song? I think so. I don't really remember the 80s. And then we'll take it higher. Sorry. Yeah, so you're a good singer. I don't know about that. Better than me, I'll tell you.
00:11:30
Speaker
Um, so, but he shut down essentially. And you all are now like, whoa. Okay. You know, we are, we are very blessed. So it was more of a cash flow issue than any real kind of worry. I, you know, I, I don't, at no point was I ever really afraid.
00:11:54
Speaker
You're going to miss a mortgage payment or me or anything like that. You're comfortable. But you had to have made, I would imagine, decisions along the way that helped you save for a rainy day or make you have some cushion or something. Because a lot of us, if we're living too close to margin, two things like that happen and it's like, oh, you know. Right. So that's a good plug for thoughtful
00:12:16
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Be thoughtful. You know, and because I know myself and my incessant need to continue moving and making what seems like rash decisions, I'm always very prepared. Just in case this one doesn't work this time, I'm ready for it. So we were fine. I don't want to
00:12:43
Speaker
I don't want to overemphasize what happened to us because a lot of people really suffered. It's okay to own that it was destabilizing. It was crazy. And you got little mouths to feed. It's not just you and him. Right. Three kids in private school. It was crazy and trying to keep their lives as
00:13:10
Speaker
Which was almost impossible or not almost it was impossible, but trying to keep their lives as stable as possible You know, they're suddenly they're home. They're learning with me. I'm a terrible teacher So things were just crazy and so we wanted everything around them to seem Completely normal like nothing had changed. There were no gaps and anything there were no hiccups Everybody still got to do everything they were always doing and
00:13:37
Speaker
That was really important to us. I mean, we are obsessed with our children. I know everybody is, but obsessed with our kids, but it was super important. You're definitely getting through a global crisis. It's not just like, oh, there's been some challenges in the world. It's literally everything that they know and are familiar with
Adapting Business Strategies
00:13:54
Speaker
has been kind of yanked away or twisted or changed. No matter whether you have resources or not, it's still for them for a child's mindset. It's like,
00:14:04
Speaker
people are talking about death, people are talking about disease, people are talking about we can't go outside at all. I mean, that's scary stuff. So I love how people are engaging. You're trying to guide them through this and even figure out what's appropriate at what stage to tell them. I mean, my wife is an adolescent and child counselor, so she works in that and is out into that. There are so many people that are trying to help their kids recover from this and adjust to
00:14:29
Speaker
a new normal, a new way of life. I very quickly realized I need to have my own breakdown. I did need to have it, but I got up pretty quickly.
00:14:47
Speaker
I gave myself a couple weeks and I was like, you just have to figure it out. I've always been resourceful. I've always figured things out. And this was just another thing I had to figure out. And I just went as hard as I possibly could. I had to immediately
00:15:06
Speaker
reconsider absolutely every item on my business plan, every plan of attack that I had, everything, everything was different. Um, and I thankfully have some kind of weird natural marketing ability. Thank God. Um, and I was able to pull it off. So when I, I mean the pandemic, and I hate saying this too, but the pandemic was amazing for me.
00:15:30
Speaker
And talk a little bit about the book that you were involved with, the network book and the powerful, it was Ladies from Lots of Different Professions, right? It wasn't just lawyers. No, it was all lawyers. Okay. Yes, it's 20 women lawyers. There were up to 50 of us in this networking group at any given point, there's a different number of women in it.
00:15:54
Speaker
Yeah, and 20 of us decided to write a book. So it's an anthology each one of us wrote a chapter and it's about what we did during the pandemic to continue business growth. And so it kind of covers that period from March 2020.
00:16:11
Speaker
through, um, maybe August, September. So it's a, it's a relatively brief time period, but so much happened. Right. And y'all got it written fairly fast. I mean, we did publish and out there and, and, and, and kind of, you know, then you're all out there networking and promoting together, which is also what I love is you're, you're demonstrating the principles.
00:16:38
Speaker
As you, as you do it, it's like do as we, as we do, not just as we wrote about theoretically. So what was your focus from your chapter? What was your kind of main takeaway that you tried to leave people with about your piece of the journey? Ultimately, what I tried to impart upon everyone is to believe in yourself, to have internal fortitude.
Supportive Networks for Women
00:17:01
Speaker
Don't look outside of yourself.
00:17:06
Speaker
And it's funny when I go back and I read it, how different my life was at the time that I wrote it from November, but now how different my life is from when I wrote it. It's amazing.
00:17:23
Speaker
Um, that trajectory has just continued. And I met these women who were doing just amazing things, working hard, giving me new ideas, believing in me, supporting me, um, just providing me with feedback, any advice that I needed. And it, I mean, invaluable, invaluable. You had this community of, it sounds like, tell me if I'm getting it right, but like trust.
00:17:52
Speaker
and commitment to sort of, we got each other, whatever comes out there. And you're from all different law firms, right? We're from across the country. You're connected because you have this purpose. And what I love is this commitment to lift each other up, to give feedback, which means sometimes there were some honest conversations like,
00:18:14
Speaker
just say, Yeah, it looks great. Oh my god, that's terrible. You know, you want you want real. Oh, we were having very honest conversation. It got a little messy sometimes. But yes, the whole point was we were going to support each other no matter what. Yeah, no matter what. And that that is why it worked.
00:18:35
Speaker
That is why it worked. And so, you know, I had enough people try to tell me no, try to break me down. Yeah. And I can imagine what that feels like if you don't have the type of odd fortitude that I naturally have. Right.
00:18:55
Speaker
No one can tell me no. I know who I am. If there's, you know, any sense of doubt in you when someone says something completely horrible and nasty, you're like, oh,
00:19:08
Speaker
It's not just me that feels like that. I really am struggling or whatever. So I have conversations with people all the time who are like, I'm so excited to talk to you. You seem to be doing really well. You're such a great mediator. You're such this, you're such that. How did you do that? I wanted to do it. I did. Nothing was going to tell me I couldn't. And kind of like what you mentioned earlier, I do tell students or people who are just starting out
00:19:37
Speaker
You do have to put some effort into this before you can be very successful. That's just a fact. Because it's a little different, even though if you've been through mediations as an advocate and done a great job, when you are the person
00:19:57
Speaker
And then you get this curveball in one room. One of my most recent mediations, I sized it up fairly quickly. Pro se person, HOA versus pro se person. HOA has got counsel.
Learning in Mediation
00:20:09
Speaker
Pro se person is emailing and calling me ahead of time and asking weird questions. I'm like, Oh, boy, here we go. This is going to go. I get in there and the pro se person brings her dad
00:20:19
Speaker
is this kind of helpful, calming force to her. She's about to go off the rails multiple times. And he's like, now, now, calm down. He had this lovely British accent that helped do that. Calm down. So what her name was. Meanwhile, got her to agree to like, I won't do what they don't want me to do and kind of to cave. And the guy in the other room for the HOA ends up being difficult one. He's like, well, I want my attorney's fees. I'm like, sir, she's not going to do anything else. She stopped.
00:20:49
Speaker
So just let it go. He's like, no. And he nearly blew the thing up and I'm going, well, I did not expect that. And his lawyer's going, you know, it's his call because it is. And he's trying to tell him, and I'm saying, have you thought about this and this? And the lawyer's like, yeah, I've told him. I have told him, you know. And so obviously, from the same sheet of music. So winning the lawyers. And he nearly tore Peter today. And I was going in the other room to say, we're done. It's an impasse because he wants money.
00:21:19
Speaker
Something finally clicked something finally, I don't know what it was. I can't even point anything. I said, or did other than I built report the whole report the whole time and say, anyway, you get current balls like that. You think, you know, you, you only learn by building them, doing it, you know, and, and, and dropping the balls. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.
00:21:40
Speaker
Listen, I'm a very honest blunt person, so when I'm trying to give someone who has asked, I just try to be positive with them. You can do anything that you set your mind to. It may take you longer, it may be harder, it may be whatever.
00:21:58
Speaker
But you can do it. Don't listen to anyone. People don't know you. They're not necessarily trying to be nasty. People can only give you what they have. So if they view themselves through that particular prism, or they don't feel that confident about themselves, or they struggle with what they think they are able to do, they can't give you more confidence than they have within themselves.
Resilience and Parental Support
00:22:25
Speaker
You know, it just drives me crazy when I hear these young people say, oh, but so and so told me that I'd never be able to do this. Well, forget them. Don't talk to them again. Right. Well, we have a phrase we use sometimes in our workshops. It's, you know, we're often, you know, comparing and judging other people, but it's not usually a fair comparison. Absolutely. And a mantra that I think Michael introduced me to, it says, you know, don't compare
00:22:53
Speaker
90% or the 100% really, let's say you don't know everything about yourself, but 90% of yourself, you know, against the 5%, if that, that you know of somebody else's life. Absolutely. Especially if it's curated and put out there, look how great I am, you know, blah, blah, blah. Absolutely. I don't trust that anyway, but would you say, is there any place that you would attribute for giving you that sort of commitment, that self knowledge and ability to be resilient? What would you attribute that to?
00:23:22
Speaker
my parents okay huge huge i mean as as far back as i can remember my parents told me i could do anything i wanted to do except come home without come home without a graduate without a graduate degree even that was a statement that we believe in use of
00:23:43
Speaker
on a path like something, you know, because we know you can. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, looking back, I see that at the time, I was like, what is wrong with this? Yeah, it didn't feel good at the time. I had so many things going on. But ultimately, you know, I would not change anything about the path that I've been on. I am exactly where I should be. Things are going
Professional Success and Networking
00:24:11
Speaker
Perfectly I hate to say perfectly but um, I but I just Things are going far better than I even could have imagined Pre-pandemic, you know when I when I made the decision to go do this the end of October and
00:24:37
Speaker
of 2019, I did not imagine I would literally be a full-time mediator. I thought it would be a slog. A process that we'd have to build every time. Yeah. And it's turned out not to be that. And a lot of that's because of that hustle, that networking, you know, with those women. You're not just networking with them. You all are driving each other, supporting each other, encouraging each other as you network out.
00:25:07
Speaker
done. And then yeah, it's just kind of you want to get that sort of funnel with kind of lots of people are hearing your name and come in and saying, Hey, I hear you're doing this. You're good. You know, wow.
00:25:19
Speaker
Absolutely. It's networking. And listen, you know, it's funny. People are like, oh, you came out of nowhere. Listen, I have been working my behind off my entire my entire life. Like I have always been putting in more effort than than anyone I know. So, you know, the the one hour of my day that people see, I mean, a lot, a lot went into it. Sure.
00:25:48
Speaker
which I don't always recommend for people. So sometimes people are like, well, exactly what do you do during the day? I'm like, I could tell you, but it would make you sad. And I wouldn't recommend actually doing these things, which is probably a different, probably a different podcast. Right.
Work-life Balance Challenges
00:26:08
Speaker
And you've been very generous with your time. We got started late, we got a little bit late. I would ask, is there anything you could say, Jared, that you do in terms of self-care, in terms of
00:26:18
Speaker
keeping that mindset, keeping the sort of doubts and things, sort of the haters, you know, whatever it is at bay, and also just, you know, you're a mom, you're an engaged mom, I've seen your kid on, when we were on a phone call earlier, you know, and you've been schooling them at home, as a lot of us have been, what do you do to sort of keep sanity and keep focus in the midst of all that? Oh, man. I don't.
00:26:44
Speaker
Which everybody don't listen now. Sorry. No, I know. And, you know, I just gave my second I just gave my second TEDx talk and it's really about that. The title, I think I think they'll stick with this title that I gave them. It's Confessions of a Mom Who Has It All. And it's really about what my life actually looks like.
00:27:11
Speaker
There's no, I don't have work-life balance. I'm very honest about that. I overwork. It is not healthy. I am often very unhappy.
00:27:28
Speaker
keeps me going is the result. I don't I don't know how I have the stamina to do it. I really genuinely don't know how that happens. But it's those wins that keep me moving. Okay. But on like your like day to day basis, I'm very much mired in all of the crap that I'm doing. It's not most of it is not fun. I'm
00:27:55
Speaker
inundated with more emails and correspondence than I can ever, ever get through. I was looking at emails today, just so happened to be, I saw one from like early May that I had just like never read, like just had never read it. So that's so depressing. I don't like, listen, I don't really have anything inspirational to say, other than whatever it is your goal is,
00:28:24
Speaker
What are you willing to sacrifice for it? For me, it has been sleep. It has been a lot of the self-care that I should be doing. I sacrifice all of that. I do meditate. I do work out. Those are some things. Those count. They're things that are very hard for me to do.
00:28:47
Speaker
Because I think of I don't know if this because I was thinking about my life in in point one increments for so long But it's very hard for me to not think about time as money Very very hard. Yeah, so, you know, I try to take two hours a day to work out and I have to force myself to do it and
Aligning Career with Passion
00:29:10
Speaker
It does make me feel a lot better. Yeah. Afterward, but while it's happening, I'm like, I can't believe I'm doing this for two hours. Oh my God. You're going to suffer later, which is, you know, how I end up not reading my emails. Right. Right. There's only one of me. Well, that's right. But what I hear in there though, is honestly, you give yourself a hard time, but
00:29:32
Speaker
When you say you actually make that time, that is some self-care. Even if you might be reading or listening to something that's going to make you a better mediator or a better parent or whatever, we have to multitask sometimes. In that sense, we have to do two things at once. I discovered I like cooking. Cooking is a relaxing thing, partly because I can make a meal and get closure on something.
00:29:53
Speaker
Which is nice as a lawyer. I get closure and people are happy at the end of it, which is not always the case in mediation or a collaborative case. They're kind of like, okay, I'm relieved, but I really don't want to see you again. But I realized I can listen to a podcast while I'm doing that. And if I need to learn something about how to run my practice, I can listen to that. I can, I can, those are things I can do at the same time. I'm, I'm trying, I mean recovering awful multitasker and trying to, to
00:30:20
Speaker
quit on, you know, quit even entertain the illusion that I can multitask. Well, it's funny, because I catch myself now I'm like, I know this is not working, you know, I dialed into one thing, but it still happened. Um, so yeah, I really liked what I would underscore for our listeners is that commitment to you know, what you're wanting to do, and to try to help make it happen. And yes, you are making sacrifices. And that is one, you know, a partner Mike would say, and I would
00:30:48
Speaker
probably have to agree, but I'm in this category too. Sleep is one thing that suffers. I don't get as much. I actually got a Fitbit to start tracking, you know, sleep. I need objective data because I can lie to myself about, you know, oh, I got seven hours last night. Like, no, you didn't. Okay, I didn't. And I can't keep doing this or else I know what will happen.
00:31:09
Speaker
You're making time for some things. And even the choice, I would say, to align what you're doing with what you know you're passionate about and you know you're seeing results at and you're getting affirmation in, that is a rewarding aspect. There's something about that that is, I mean, I will say this, you have inspired and encouraged me. This was kind of a lift that I needed because I've been sort of declaring more lately
00:31:33
Speaker
I'm a mediator. I'm not a litigator. And sometimes I'm self-conscious about what my litigator friends that I know, I ran into one Friday night at dinner, you know, guys still do construction litigation. I used to do construction litigation. I'm like, I'm not in that world doing that anymore. And am I bad? Am I blessed? I'm like, no. It's so much better over here. It's not who I am and how to deploy my skills as best possible. And some of that's education and some of that's mediation.
00:32:00
Speaker
And in collaborative, when those come together, I've had that conference you came and spoke at was things coming together for me. Like I'm getting to teach and educate about being collaborative and mediation. I'm like, this is the Holy Grail.
Embracing Unique Paths in Law
00:32:15
Speaker
And I worked my tail off to do that though. I stayed up some late nights for my part in it. I was joyful doing it because this is like my thing, my skillset.
00:32:28
Speaker
And, and I love what people are taking away from it. They can do something different and, and think differently, like thinking like a lawyer that we all get kind of, you know, uh, socialized or, or, you know, whatever jumped into as a, as a, in law school, it's a lot more, it can be a more expansive thing. Just, I can analyze and categorize and have an argument for your every counter argument.
00:32:55
Speaker
I like the tools I use as a media and collaborative lawyer to think about, hey, I know this is what you want. This is what they want. And those aren't going to match up unless somebody does something different. How can we think about this differently? The creativity, those aspects of it. So you've been an inspiration to me. I believe that this podcast or however many episodes we could have, it will be an inspiration to our listeners. So I can't thank you enough for being with us.
00:33:19
Speaker
I can talk to you for hours probably about this. But thank you so much for your time. And really, you know, part of what we'd like at the Thriving Large podcast is we're not presenting people who are just one cookie cutter journey, one way of navigating the practice of law. Because there isn't one. And we love hearing the different individual stories about how people make it work. And you've had some great blessings and challenges.
Conclusion and Farewell
00:33:48
Speaker
That's what we all experience over time. Sometimes it feels skewed to one or the other, maybe. But over time, that stuff's going to keep coming and going. But knowing who you are, and the other thing I hope our people hear is having people have your back. Whether it's a mentor, a sponsor, like Miles, what you've talked about, that's inspiring, and the networking. And the book is hashtag network, right? Yes. OK. So go get it. It's available at Amazon, right?
00:34:17
Speaker
Amazon is an Amazon bestseller. Yes. And it's fantastic. I've heard several of the women from it speak and they are machines on LinkedIn as well. And so we're honored that you've been with us. I hope I'll see you again soon. I've got actually several things I want to talk to you about and ask you about. They're totally building off of this. I got some good ideas, but we'll end the podcast here. And thanks again, Winter Wheeler, for being with us. You can find her at the Miles Mediation and Arbitration website.
00:34:46
Speaker
if you need them and thanks very much and we'll see you next time on our podcast.
00:35:10
Speaker
The Thriving Lawyers Podcast is brought to you by real-time creative learning experiences, a national provider of continuing legal education and professional development programs that leave participants engaged, encouraged, and equipped to pursue meaningful and sustainable change in their practices, their lives, and the organizations they work in. And by Osborne Conflict Resolution, your experience guides through the uncharted terrain of business and family law disputes based out of Charlotte, North Carolina. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on The Thriving Lawyers Podcast.