Transcript
NextGen Matters: If you have spent any time within NextGen Ministries, you know as a leader, You have to read the room. And your room is never just one story. So let's go to your midweek, a Wednesday night gathering.
NextGen Matters: In that room, you've got homeschool students. You got Christian school students. You got... public school students. Those public school students walked in with caring, you know the emotional baggage of 47 different hallway dramas, and that was all before lunch.
NextGen Matters: Then you look over the other side of your room and you have these Christian school students who attended daily Bible classes. And if it's a Wednesday, they probably had chapel. but they could still be struggling with their own faith.
NextGen Matters: Then, you have the homeschool student. Possibly he or she is quiet. They're steady. They're faithful. and sometimes even misunderstood. So today we are pulling back the curtain.
NextGen Matters: on a group of students who are far more spiritually and socially diverse. than the stereotypes often suggest. Homeschool students may look spiritually grounded. And many are.
NextGen Matters: but beneath the surface. you may find Deep biblical roots. sitting right beside Quiet battles. with isolation. Academic pressure and limited interaction.
NextGen Matters: Because here's the reality. Homeschool students are always just observers. in your ministry They can be and need to become big time. team players.
NextGen Matters: So grab your coffee. I got mine. Settle in. And let's hear about this great conversation with my friends, Matt and April McClay, coming to you from their home in Huntington, West Virginia. Welcome, guys.
Matt McClay: Thank you, Rich. Thank you for having us this this morning. Yeah, thank you.
NextGen Matters: You're welcome. You know, as I did that intro. You have a homeschool daughter. did Did that? represent. Well, or was I off?
Matt McClay: Yes, I think you represented very well in one of the words that you... mentioned that I think really describes a lot of homeschoolers, especially in the student ministry environment, as misunderstood.
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Matt McClay: and i'm looking forward to in this episode. april and i and you the three of us are talking about maybe seeing homeschoolers. homeschool students, really for who they really are and and helping them along in their their walk with Jesus.
Matt McClay: Yeah, absolutely.
NextGen Matters: Yeah, sometimes I think. you know homeschool students While they, again, as I mentioned, they can seem spiritually steady. And there's definitely some family roots, you know.
NextGen Matters: uh but their discipleship needs are far more varied than I think many ministry leaders can realize. Your thoughts on that?
Matt McClay: I agree. Because I feel like they are... misunderstood in that area and they feel like oh well they're homeschooled they get bible all the time they Or...
NextGen Matters: mm -hmm
Matt McClay: immersed in it all the time but when it comes down to the roots of it they're still like any other student that are struggling to find their place. in their spiritual walk with Christ.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm. And I think... April, there's there's even a misperception that... I'll use the phrase all. All homeschool parents are solid believers.
NextGen Matters: Uh,
Matt McClay: Yeah. we
NextGen Matters: True or not?
Matt McClay: that would That would be false. And homeschooling, as maybe you've you've seen or read about, is...
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: is is the fastest growing school option.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: in America. And especially since since COVID -19 and 2020, more and more families are homeschooling.
NextGen Matters: Bye for now.
Matt McClay: So as the sample size grows, you're going to find more and more varied. types of people, spiritual conditions as as as more people are homeschooling.
NextGen Matters: Right.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: so
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: we've we've We've run into... all sorts of different of different families, different types of students and parents in our student ministry who who homeschool through the years.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. yeah i know in the ministries I've served in even since that time you talked about in 2020. The various students I know who have been homeschooling, the majority now are actually in a co -op situation.
NextGen Matters: like in our own ministry at my church where I serve. i think there's only one this is like 60 70 you know high schoolers i think there's only one that maybe just as pure tree. additional homeschooling with me. I say homeschool only.
NextGen Matters: but all the rest of our homeschool students. And that's like one third of the whole ministry. It's a co -op. And I have found that a lot of times there have been academic choices from parents.
NextGen Matters: but that they're not even believers in Jesus Christ. because our students who are in the co -ops will say, Everyone in their co -op is not is not a believer.
NextGen Matters: It was more of an academic choice.
Matt McClay: and
NextGen Matters: not necessarily a spiritual spiritual choice. Is is that? Making sense?
Matt McClay: Absolutely. I think it's there's there's the academic side of things. sometimes parents are frustrated with their students progress in a in a traditional school you also you run into there are parents who
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: even though they may not be either solid believers or... or people who are where they need to be in their walk with the Lord, they they see maybe some things in the school system that moral moral or I guess you could say immoral type teachings or worldviews or belief systems that are being presented to students.
NextGen Matters: Good night.
Matt McClay: in the school system and those parents even though
NextGen Matters: Right.
Matt McClay: Maybe they're not. committed followers of Jesus. they can they can so they can sense that something is not right. They want their students to have more of a traditional Judeo -Christian.
Matt McClay: type of a type of an upbringing. So they'll pull their kids out at out of school and homeschool them, even if even if they're not necessarily committed Christians themselves.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: Hmm. Hmm. I know. That was true for my own wife. Back when she was in. going into 11th grade. So this is dropping back a few years, guys. Not homeschool, but Christian school.
NextGen Matters: Her parents were not believers in Jesus. I've done a whole... episode with her on that but it was more of a, let's say a moral. choice. That her dad wanted her to be in the Christian school that actually was the church that she was attending as a child So she went from. public school into Christian school. into her 11th grade year.
NextGen Matters: Because again, parents that weren't believers in Jesus. never attended church, did not want to attend church. but they wanted their daughter to have something. better. than what she was getting, not even the academic, but even just from the moral perspective.
NextGen Matters: So I could totally see that now. That was 1979. The culture's gone a little more, let's say, progressive since then. So... You can see where parents are making a lot of choices. So April, I got a lot of questions that I want you and Matt to really... help Help us understand. those of us who are youth workers in the local church setting, parachurch setting, and even...
NextGen Matters: Parents who are listening to this, who maybe are not homeschooling their kids, help us get into the hearts and minds. of those, yes, your daughter, but you have in your ministry, because I've been there, I've met them, you have a lot more homeschool students in your ministry than just your own daughter.
NextGen Matters: So you're all going to be answering these questions from two different, let's let's say two different hats you're going to wear. As a parent... who's homeschooling as your educators, but also then as ministry leaders, because.
NextGen Matters: Matt, you're the student pastor. And April is doing a lot there. She leads small groups. She does a lot of admin. She's that great wingman or wing person that he needs, every youth leader needs, a great wing person next to you to kind of help carry a lot of that. So I asked April earlier if she has an official title. She goes, no, I'm just here to help. so That's what she does. And she does a great job.
NextGen Matters: so here's my first question. How many years have you homeschooled your daughter, Addie?
Matt McClay: This is going on year six. Year six of homeschooling her.
NextGen Matters: And what grade is she in now?
Matt McClay: She is in ninth grade. She's a high schooler. We have a high schooler now.
NextGen Matters: Cut!
Matt McClay: It's wild. Yeah.
NextGen Matters: So she started what, in about third grade?
Matt McClay: yeah yeah She was in second grade when COVID hit. She finished her second grade in... public school. And then.
NextGen Matters: Okay.
Matt McClay: the fall of 2020 is when we started homeschooling. So we started homeschooling our in third grade. third grade But our decision was just because homeschooling was a better option than what the system was offering here.
Matt McClay: at the time with it being either in person or virtual and
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Matt McClay: So we decided to pull her out that year and give homeschooling a try. and our initial thought was just let's try it for the year and maybe after that year
NextGen Matters: Wow.
Matt McClay: yeah the world will come back together after COVID and...
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: we'll put it back into traditional school setting but it just worked that year for our family and for her specifically. So we we just every year we pray about it and and and the Lord keeps leading us back to.
NextGen Matters: It is interesting.
Matt McClay: Back to homeschool. Yeah.
NextGen Matters: See, I think that's where... from what I watched. And I've also read some stats. that's when that let's say that migration took. Please. out of public schools.
NextGen Matters: Because as I said last episode with Andy. The Christian schools... that I'm aware of, that I've spoken. in these last number of years. 2x they doubled in size Uh, in 20. 20 that fall.
NextGen Matters: and even 2021 because most of the public education system was not open meaning going back in traditional classrooms. And parents that weren't even believers were like, and that's what my friends who were in these schools were telling me.
NextGen Matters: parents that weren't even christian were like But we want our kids back in. the classroom. So I could see the same thing took place with y 'all. was like hey i i we want our child to Be learning.
NextGen Matters: And so you jumped in on that. Is that is that fair? How I...
Matt McClay: Thank you, sir. yeah
NextGen Matters: Position that or? But then it sounds like you're saying. every year you kind of think through it but it's really worked so well it's like okay we're in now So that's cool.
Matt McClay: We have her in a good co -op now too where she's able to get out and not just be
NextGen Matters: That's good.
Matt McClay: you know, isolated from students. so
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: That's also a benefit I feel like that she has. Yeah.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Go ahead Matt.
Matt McClay: we We get to... We get to host the co -op at our church. which is which is kind of exciting.
NextGen Matters: Oh cool.
Matt McClay: And we've actually been able to reach... We reached some students. through that co -op who
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Wow.
Matt McClay: Parents either are are looking for a church or not part of a church.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: and now kind of solidly attending our our student ministry, which is which is is great.
NextGen Matters: That's great.
Matt McClay: I get to I get to do the.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: the devotion every morning.
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Matt McClay: that They meet on Tuesdays at our church our church facility.
NextGen Matters: Okay.
Matt McClay: So every Tuesday I get to do a devotion with the group. And so that's really opened up another door of ministry too.
NextGen Matters: Wow.
Matt McClay: by having it here at the church.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. I love that that's So cool. All right guys. From a parent's perspective. What is it like? For your daughter. to be a homeschooler.
NextGen Matters: within your own student ministry.
Matt McClay: Hmm.
Matt McClay: I don't even know to be honest. She's grown up there for so long that it's just like home for her so she I don't even know if she's ever even thought. Oh, I'm a homeschooler and this is a youth event.
Matt McClay: it's just been natural transition for her.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: As far as I mean, she was think four weeks old the first time she ever attended Refuel. So she has grown up in the student ministry and we have.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: So many pictures of her with the students throughout our going on 16 years now of youth ministry, I've heard growing up with our students.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: And so I don't feel like. Oh no, like... for her like we've seen her as a kid in public school to a kid that's in homeschool and not like
NextGen Matters: Amen.
Matt McClay: her transition into youth group has been
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: i don't know steady like it wasn't a cultural shock or anything for her.
NextGen Matters: Okay. Okay. Well, let me ask, let me. Appreciate that. Let me. back up a little bit. Matt, give me kind of the breakdown.
NextGen Matters: public Christian school, you know private school, and then homeschool within your own ministry structure.
Matt McClay: So we're probably. 50%. 50 to 60 % public school. 20 % private school and 20 % homeschool.
Matt McClay: Uh, if i write it down it could it can vary and of course it varies year to year too but the the majority
NextGen Matters: Okay. So you got to. great variety.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: of our students, our public school students, but not not the overwhelming majority.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: 51 plus percent, I would say.
NextGen Matters: Okay.
Matt McClay: public schools, 50 to 60 percent.
NextGen Matters: So if you if you comboed. christian school slash homeschool it's really a one -to -one ratio.
Matt McClay: Absolutely. and you because of the the attendance that we we usually have on yeah in our student ministry, that 20 to 25 % of homeschool students.
NextGen Matters: Okay.
Matt McClay: I mean that that's a good number of students.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Matt McClay: any given Wednesday night, we probably have.
NextGen Matters: Yeah, give the... Give our listeners your kind of your breakdown. like I mean, we just met last week for a different Zoom call for a different reason. but What did you guys have last Wednesday?
Matt McClay: Last Wednesday, I think we had 130.
NextGen Matters: In 10 minutes.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: 130 students that's 6 through 12 so we're probably looking at 25 to 30. homeschool students, I would say.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. maybe 30 30 yeah Yeah. Wow. So in other words... your daughter doesn't walk in feeling like a like i'm the only one here
Matt McClay: Right.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Matt McClay: And.
NextGen Matters: That's, I think, a huge thing.
Matt McClay: and And again, in our... with with our situation where we host the the co -op there.
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Matt McClay: Many students, probably the majority of the students who attend that co -op attend our student ministry.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm
Matt McClay: even some you know they belong to other churches and their churches either don't have a student ministry or their student ministry ministry meets a different night of the week that They like to come.
NextGen Matters: Mm.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: And part of that is they. you they They like the... the cohesiveness of the of their their friend group and getting to be able to.
NextGen Matters: True.
Matt McClay: to... worship together, serve together. Grow together.
NextGen Matters: Hm.
Matt McClay: So.
NextGen Matters: That's good. so Your daughter's involved in student ministry. Obviously, it's a little different. because You're both on staff, April. for for our listeners. Tell them what you do as far as the church staff goes.
Matt McClay: I am... I guess a small group administrator. I work with all of our small group leaders throughout our campus or that meet in homes.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: throughout the week So I do a lot of.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Matt McClay: you know. administrative stuff for them if they need stuff ordered or if you know setting up I don't know their curriculum for them and going through it and making sure that you know I don't know how to describe that, but just like...
NextGen Matters: Thank you.
Matt McClay: that it's quickly that we want in our church system and stuff like that and just you know
NextGen Matters: Okay.
Matt McClay: read a lot of curriculum. So that's...
NextGen Matters: Yeah. So you're both on staff, you're both on payroll. And the reason I say that is because your daughter grew up like me and Matt like you because you're dead. that That's your home church. Your dad was one of the pastors there and still is.
Matt McClay: Yes.
NextGen Matters: so All, you know. We know what it's like being the the ministry kid. You know? April, I love that. You got the pictures of when she was little being kind of passed around. I can see it. That was my kids.
NextGen Matters: and And matter of fact, I got black and white photos of me being that kid at just a few months old. Because my parents were our youth leaders. in the church that I was born into. Crazy, right? Which is awesome. I think it's awesome. So yeah, I get it. Like for my kids, it was no, nothing different because that was just church.
NextGen Matters: And we... Because dad was on staff. It was just like, that's dad. So I realized, my point is I realized that. Your dynamic with... With Addison, maybe a little different than than one of our listeners who homeschools their own kids.
NextGen Matters: Right? But... at the same time. Does she ever? Does silver feel like... I'm going to use the word awkward. Does she ever feel inferior? Does she ever feel?
NextGen Matters: In some way, like, do I really fit in? because of the homeschool choice.
Matt McClay: I think every student battles that to some degree regardless of their school situation, but haven't seen that specifically because of because of homeschooling.
NextGen Matters: Okay.
Matt McClay: It's... especially in our student ministry, it's just. It's so mainstream now.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. It is.
Matt McClay: And there are so many homeschoolers that that.
NextGen Matters: It really is.
Matt McClay: i think I think that. That helps. versus 20, 30 years ago. It was not mainstream.
NextGen Matters: Yes.
Matt McClay: and and maybe if you attended the student ministry year one. you're the only one or you're one of three or four of now
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: Now there's a sense of belonging, I think, that there there didn't used to be.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Right. That's true. That's true. So as mom and dad, what can you do? to really assist her.
NextGen Matters: in the sense of her being missional with her life. because I set it up like this. It is true. stereotype or not but it is true that they're seems to be If they. student attends a Christian school or attends a home school. This is what I have heard as a youth worker over the years.
NextGen Matters: When it comes to the big event, Matt, and I spoke at your huge event you did. most recently a few months ago 400 students. Oh my goodness. That's an episode we had with you back. like I said, a few months ago.
NextGen Matters: But. When you say the phrase as a youth worker, youth leader, student pastor, whatever, you say, hey, bring your unsafe friends. And the quick. Comeback can be well. I don't know anybody and saved I think that's changing now But that for me, for years, that's what I would hear.
NextGen Matters: In my time in student ministry as a youth pastor, I would hear that kind of like that. Like. I don't have to play that card, you know, evangelism because I don't know anybody. Like I have this out card. Make sense?
NextGen Matters: So. my My whole hunger back then. and and passion was helping homeschool students and christian school students realize we still have a role to play in being missional.
NextGen Matters: within the context of our personal lives and in the context of our student ministry. That is the backdrop. to this question. What can you do or encourage other parents to do?
NextGen Matters: to have their student become missional. In the sense of I need to reach out and become. aware of and rub shoulders with unsaved people. Like Jesus did.
Matt McClay: I think it starts by really defining what it means to be lost. And that's... That's an emphasis in our student ministry. and
Matt McClay: we We talk about it a lot in the sense of people. going to church doesn't make you a Christian. It's... Bye. faith alone and Jesus alone. but the same token. Being a part of a homeschool co -op or being homeschooled doesn't make you a Christian. It's faith alone and Jesus alone. so just as as We have sometimes a hard time, those of us who are in environments where we're around a lot of people.
Matt McClay: who don't attend church or maybe you're casually culturally Christian.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: have to be able to see past the religious exterior and see the heart. I think we have to train our students and homeschool students. to really know what it means to be lost. and and why religion doesn't save and why. being a part of a homeschool group that reinforces a traditional Christian worldview doesn't save. So I think first it's it's it's a teaching thing.
Matt McClay: but I think, second, the involvement in the local church is huge. You know, Jesus gave his great commission. to be primarily exercise through through the church.
Matt McClay: So getting students involved, homeschool students involved in outreaches that churches are doing and specifically student ministry is doing.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: I think is huge. And then of course. if you're creating your student ministry environment. in such a way that it's it's reaching students who are lost and and you're you're anticipating there are lost students that are going to be coming this week.
Matt McClay: and
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: no matter what we're talking about. during our time of the word, we're going to clearly explain the gospel. That helps even your homeschool students who may be Maybe they couldn't necessarily name any unsaved friends.
Matt McClay: but they're going to be an environment in an environment. on Wednesday nights or on Sunday nights, whenever your student ministry meets, where they have the opportunity really to make an impact.
NextGen Matters: True. Mm -hmm.
NextGen Matters: Hmm. Hmm. April any of your thoughts on that? As a mom?
Matt McClay: I was just trying to think through this question when I read it earlier. in the week and Like with... Personally, with just our child. Like she's always had a missional mindset. And I don't say that as bragging on her, but like.
Matt McClay: Everywhere we go, like... for color war for example she will take invitations with her and like our neighbor that lives you know across the street she's like can we invite him can we invite him and she's always
NextGen Matters: Oh cool.
Matt McClay: yeah had that about her no matter even when she was little and not even in youth group Like she was always excited to invite people to church or to take people with her.
Matt McClay: And so I feel like she's...
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Matt McClay: kind of always had that mindset as far as reaching people.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: So we've been very blessed with that. She has that heart.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: So I feel like... It does start in a lot of the homes. as far as she has seen us live it out in It's kind of cool to watch her want to do that now.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: And so it's where I feel like it does start in the home in how you approach it.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: and that's where the missional mindset they may not have unsafe friends in their co -op or in their you know classroom i threw a you know
NextGen Matters: We hope.
Matt McClay: private school but
NextGen Matters: Right.
Matt McClay: Like... People around them, everywhere they go, are searching for hope. And like she is that light. When we even go to, say, a Target, she's like, you want to come? So like she's never been shy.
Matt McClay: So I'm like, I wish I had that fullness.
NextGen Matters: Wow. Yeah. Well, let's be honest. Listener. the The passion a student has For Jesus?
NextGen Matters: And for the mission of Jesus, usually comes out of your own Passion for Jesus and mission for Jesus. The influence that we as parents have. is outrageously incredible.
NextGen Matters: So what I've seen, because I said last week in last episode, was I grew up in a Christian school. And then being a student pastor, having so many in Christian schools, and then even becoming more in the homeschool.
NextGen Matters: uh environments environments It may sound controversial. It's just, it is what it is. Because I grew up in the... the uh Dead.
NextGen Matters: The outgrowth of the Christian school movement was in the 1970s, and that's when my dad started the school. United Church. So I saw it from ground zero up, Matt. That's what I'm trying to say. It was protectionism.
NextGen Matters: There. That's what it is. it's It was protectionism because we were told that. My dad would preach it from the pulpit. on Sunday mornings, get your kids out of public schools. He would use this. Exodus.
NextGen Matters: reference So this is the land of Egypt, and we need to come out of Egypt. Later, he realized that was really out of context and he was just parroting what he was being taught. by the influencers that he listened to.
NextGen Matters: but it was the us versus them mentality. And a lot of people made choices. because of the us versus them. Come out for among them be separate, sayeth the Lord, which is, again, out of context. That's about false teachers in the church had nothing to do with public school.
NextGen Matters: You guys see what I'm saying is like there was a lot of like heavy -handed
Matt McClay: Absolutely. Yes.
NextGen Matters: uh guilt and in and my dad again he apologized over the years later for saying it but he would heavy hand the people in church. If your kid's in a public school, you're out of the will of God. That was said from the pulpit.
NextGen Matters: That's the kind of Christian I grew up in. So you you guilted people into, you know, if you're going to love Jesus, your kids have to be in our Christian school. And then came the homeschool, which was to me even more of a deeper.
NextGen Matters: commitment to Jesus, because now it's just you. raising your child. with no other influence. Protectionism. And I say that because... is that as i look in the new testament While we need to be surrounding ourselves with people that really do
NextGen Matters: The... that really do build up our faith. I mean, even Chrysler had this great model. The three around him The 12 around him, yes, we know Judas was a fraud.
NextGen Matters: But the other guys didn't know that. In other words, he was a really good fraud. But Jesus surrounded himself with 12. Who? forsook all to follow him.
NextGen Matters: That's a good principle for us. At the same time, Jesus was... Always missional in spending time with lost people. And it seems like we're we it's just so binary. It's either this or this.
NextGen Matters: Like it can't be both. We have to have internal friends who are godly, who lift me up. So if a parent makes a choice on Christian school or homeschool, I absolutely applaud that.
NextGen Matters: But then we say, but we can't. Talk to unsaved people That was my Christianity. So maybe I'm unpacking back in the 70s and 80s. But I was told that from my Christian school teachers.
NextGen Matters: you should not talk to unsaved people. unless you share the gospel with them.
NextGen Matters: And know here I am, a teenager, reading the... the Bible every night for my quiet time and that certain months of the year going through it chronologically when I read the Gospels. you know accounts. Here's Jesus constantly meeting with unsaved people.
NextGen Matters: Dude, I was a little confused, okay? Okay. I'm hearing this from my... My teachers don't spend time with lost people. And yet I'm seeing Jesus spend time with lost people. So Matt, this is where I'm actually grateful. I'm seeing more of this awakening too.
NextGen Matters: As the church. We. Big picture. We have to get back to. connecting with lost people. I don't see as much anymore the isolationism or the protectionism.
NextGen Matters: that the movements kind of were birthed out of. Does that make any sense at all?
Matt McClay: Absolutely.
NextGen Matters: I went off on that, but, you know, I just want to explain that. yeah
Matt McClay: Well, I think what you're seeing now among many homeschool parents is really... trying to... to develop the wisdom to balance. between those two extremes.
NextGen Matters: Yes.
Matt McClay: good Like you said, you have Jesus who was. you're constantly around lost people. But then you you balance the example of Jesus. With.
NextGen Matters: mm -hmm
Matt McClay: scripture that talks about how bad company corrupts.
NextGen Matters: Yep.
Matt McClay: good character and yeah as parents we have to protect to a degree but then we also have to put you know put our kids our students in positions where
NextGen Matters: Yep.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: where where they grow in evangelism and they grow in learning how to sometimes be the only one. who's who's standing up for what's right.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: when surrounded by others who don't. so ye
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: Like you said, it can't be a binary either or. There has to be. That's where wisdom comes in into play.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: and
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: Yeah, I really think that's where.
NextGen Matters: Yep.
Matt McClay: yeah as as the church we have the opportunity to partner with parents in that
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: not just Not just even student ministry, but all the ministries of the church to to help the to help parents.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: Absolutely.
Matt McClay: to help parents grow in that wisdom.
NextGen Matters: And that April, I love what you're saying because see your daughter. Saw you guys model it And you still model it. Because your hearts are for the loss. April, your story, like my wife's story, not coming from a... Christian background.
NextGen Matters: And that's I think that's so cool because now your daughter saw both. if you If you know what I'm saying, you know. Daddy's side is this way and mama's side is this way. And. some of my own kids.
NextGen Matters: you know i just thought you the other day there were little kids praying over The table where were with my wife's family. Ferrari. vacations every summer. And my kids, being little, are praying that and this is my kids.
NextGen Matters: Unsolicited from me. praying that grandma and grandpa, you know, would ask Jesus in their life. word.
Matt McClay: Oh,
NextGen Matters: And then he's a little evangelist. And I'm like a little embarrassed because we didn't set them up, but. That was. That was on their heart. Anyway. Because I'm so glad that, you know. My kids obviously did pick that up.
NextGen Matters: Because we were praying as a family for her family. So I love that you guys talk about we have to model it. And that's why I kind of went into that. We're not called to be protectionists.
NextGen Matters: we are called or isolationists we are called to be missional So. I love that All right, let's go from being kind of the parent side to more of the church side. put your church leader and youth leader hats on for a little bit here. All right. So I'm sure that you guys have seen over the years, you've had your public school, homeschool. private school.
NextGen Matters: dynamics within your ministry. As you said right now, it's like 50 and 25, 25%. But Matt, talk to me from the student pastor's perspective. Go back before. And that's only four or five years ago now, but go back before Addison was one of your teenagers in the group.
NextGen Matters: Okay. So think back to four or five years and earlier. Same thing with you, April. What was your perspective? or your thoughts or perceptions i mean of the homeschool student. before Addison.
NextGen Matters: came into your ministry.
Matt McClay: I think if to to be real honest, at the beginning of my ministries, this would have been... a good while ago now.
NextGen Matters: Because how many years?
Matt McClay: Coming up on 16, I guess this is year 16.
NextGen Matters: Yep. Yep.
Matt McClay: I really thought that homeschool students, yeah if you had a group full of homeschool students, yeah you're... capacity to to grow and to... and to reach other students was very limited.
Matt McClay: so
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: A homeschool student comes and you say, oh, yay. but then a public school student starts coming you're like do doing, yeah. no
NextGen Matters: Right.
Matt McClay: jumping up and down and and and excited because you think that you you really have the potential to reach.
NextGen Matters: Right.
Matt McClay: my my mindset obviously has changed now. And I understand that, you know,
NextGen Matters: Yeah. but i But I understand that too. but I went through that because that's the proximity factor.
Matt McClay: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: there is a proximity factor.
Matt McClay: Yes. But I... over the years and then obviously now that my daughter's involved and i've grown closer to this group i've seen how God really does use.
Matt McClay: does use homeschoolers. in a general way to reach people there's some specific strengths
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Matt McClay: that That God is... just by virtue of their their family and and and their schooling arrangement. God has given them some opportunities that maybe some other students don't have.
Matt McClay: So.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: They're an asset is what I'm trying to say. They're an asset between the students and their families.
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Matt McClay: They're an asset to the student ministry. They're not. they're not a liability and they're not.
NextGen Matters: Okay. It's cool.
Matt McClay: They're not an inconvenience.
NextGen Matters: I like how you said that. April, what do you see are some of the spiritual struggles? for the home school student. That you see even within the girls you lead.
NextGen Matters: and the ministry as a whole.
Matt McClay: I feel like... A lot of them, like especially... Teenagers are always tough anyway.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: And so. Like, it's nice in a way because you, like... Coming from our perspective of her co -op group and just the ones who we are seeing like it's almost like they're in a bubble. So when something outside their bubble hits Like...
Matt McClay: for us one of the things i've always said with addison is we're going to be honest with her. like if she asked a question I'm going to be honest with her, no matter what the topic is. And like, and we have some parents who are still very sheltered when it comes to that.
NextGen Matters: No.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: And so I feel like. It makes it harder for them to reach. students even inside our own youth ministry. Hugh. have like... I don't know a different perspective on life than they've been taught.
NextGen Matters: Mhm.
Matt McClay: because they don't fully grasp that reality yet because they've been told it's wrong right off the bat and so then it like
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: makes it awkward or hard for them to reach that student because they don't know how to even start a conversation with them. So I feel like. I've always even with our like not just us and even with our girls in youth group been honest about you know my past and choices that I've made.
Matt McClay: just to help them see, you know what, like... Yeah, you know. That person may be living this life, but look where God can bring them.
NextGen Matters: So cool.
Matt McClay: But you have to be. that positive light in their life and that influence in their life.
NextGen Matters: a Nice.
Matt McClay: It doesn't mean that you have to accept their lifestyle, but it does mean you accept that person and love them.
NextGen Matters: Amen.
NextGen Matters: and
Matt McClay: It's a huge difference of loving the person and not. necessarily the choices they're making.
NextGen Matters: Well said. Well said. Matt, any kind of struggles you see? the homeschool student. And let me let me take your daughter off the table. Let's look at your other homeschool students, okay?
Matt McClay: along.
NextGen Matters: some of the struggles that they face spiritually.
Matt McClay: A long flight.
NextGen Matters: that may not be the same struggles as the others. Christian or or public.
Matt McClay: Sure. yeah Along the lines of what April was was saying you know Not to get too theater too much into being a theology nerd, but yeah the Bible talks about how we have a three -part enemy. you know we have yeah
NextGen Matters: By the way On this podcast.
Matt McClay: the
NextGen Matters: we can go into theology.
Matt McClay: Well, let's do it. Ephesians 2 kind of explains. you
NextGen Matters: We better go into the house.
Matt McClay: Our own media. Yeah. Ephesians 2 explains our enemy as... as as yeah the devil himself is opposed to us the the the world that's the system of the world
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: And then our own flesh. Well.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: In the homeschool environment, there's there's a... good, I think healthy level of protection sometimes from the world system. That's of the reason a lot of parents want to homeschool their students.
NextGen Matters: Sure.
Matt McClay: And your parents being so close to students, they're able to sometimes help those, protect those students from the fiery darts of Satan.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: But the one area you can't insulate a student from, whether they're homeschool or public school. is their own flesh inside of them.
NextGen Matters: it's true
Matt McClay: and
NextGen Matters: Yep.
Matt McClay: Sometimes students... think they're immune to the spiritual struggles that we all face.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm. Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: Not even always in a prideful. in a prideful way, but just in...
NextGen Matters: All right.
Matt McClay: they've they've never been yet Maybe they haven't been taught how to deal with some of those things. and We have to teach students, all students. homeschool students included, how to yeah how to how to guide their heart.
Matt McClay: and how to direct their heart toward God. to protect themselves from from themselves.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: And...
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Matt McClay: we've Not every family that's a homeschool family. is is where they need to be spiritually, just because being a homeschooler doesn't.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: make your family immune to marital problems. It doesn't make your family immune to spiritual attacks. and And students oftentimes, especially homeschool students, when things aren't...
Matt McClay: when When things aren't going the way they should be, it's it's hard on them and in in a specific way. so I think that's a struggle and the older students get, of course, the the more students start to see that reality.
Matt McClay: just like any student. I think that's a struggle for sure.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. and Andy said last week, coming from the Christian school side, there really isn't a lot of... difference in the struggles. And I think... I think it's fair to say the same thing, because like you said, the flesh is the flesh.
NextGen Matters: There may be levels, let me say levels of temptation. that are more obviously obviously when i'm playing as a teenager baseball with a bunch of unsaved guys And I'm hearing all kinds of expletives. I learned a lot. about sex when I was in fifth grade.
NextGen Matters: On a baseball field.
Matt McClay: Yeah.
NextGen Matters: Okay. Fifth grade. Sixth, seventh, eighth grade. By the time I'm in 12th grade, I heard it all. I mean, those words were invented. in the 2000s i don't need to explain what those words are i think we all know what i'm talking about
NextGen Matters: Yet, I also knew that there was the level of, I'll say temptation of the level of. pressure. You know, when you're more of a public environment, of course, because when you're the 5 % or...
NextGen Matters: four percent of all those around you and you're the four percent who are saved 96 % loss. I get that. That's a lot of pressure.
NextGen Matters: But I think there's also some struggles that we can face in. Let me say more of the... Christian side? of education, be it public or even home. and that is pride. I know I struggled with it.
NextGen Matters: Big time because, oh, I'm not like them. Look at them. I'm not like them. instead of seeing myself as fallen and depraved, and I need the grace of Jesus, yes, to enter. into that relationship with him.
NextGen Matters: but to continue in that relationship with him. to have a posture of humility and i need his grace every day I wasn't thinking that. I was thinking I'm better than them.
NextGen Matters: See, so I think theres maybe sometimes there's different struggles. But it still comes down to sin. You know?
Matt McClay: there
NextGen Matters: So we we got this little thing called, we want to be Lord of our lives, you know? We want to call the shots. Hey, we're going to bring this up to a close in a little bit. I got two. questions for you all. First of all, I'm going to have you talk to...
NextGen Matters: other parents who are homeschooling their own child and then talk to ministry leaders. like yourselves, how we can then help. do better or maintain what we're doing in a good way or do better at creating a better environment.
NextGen Matters: for homeschoolers to feel like we're part of the team. So first question here. parents. What would you like to say to parents of homeschoolers? Coming from the perspective of one who leads a ministry.
Matt McClay: Well, I'll I'll start by... Saying to the... The parent thank you for investing in your student. in in in such a special way. Every parent has to make the right decision for their. for their kids. So, you know, whether a parent is, you sends their kid to public school.
Matt McClay: private school, Christian school, or homeschool, if they're making the decision that's best for their kid. and just like sometimes parents in other school environments. second guess their decision.
Matt McClay: homeschool parents. Oftentimes tell you from experience, say, did we make the right decision here?
NextGen Matters: No.
Matt McClay: Are we doing what we're supposed to be doing? Is this going to work out the way that we're hoping it's going to work out?
NextGen Matters: It's a lot of work.
Matt McClay: And I read a statistic recently that said at 182 days out of the year, parents feel like a failure.
NextGen Matters: Right?
Matt McClay: as a parent So... you What I would like to say to... Yeah. to homeschooling parents is just you thank you for doing what you're doing.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: what you're doing is is is meaningful and it's making a huge difference, even though the day -to -day feels very... it can often feel very demoralizing and you can feel defeated.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good.
Matt McClay: so I have to.
NextGen Matters: April, anything you got?
Matt McClay: We did that.
NextGen Matters: Yeah, go ahead.
Matt McClay: And the thing is, is we all get discouraged. We all want to give up. And like I'll be honest, this morning I threatened to send my kid back to public school. but like
NextGen Matters: hu
Matt McClay: It's... It's hard in the moment.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: And I feel like that's everyday life. If you're living in the every moment, it is going to be hard. but like looking forward. and seeing the progress that your child is making is rewarding.
NextGen Matters: Hmm.
Matt McClay: And... Sometimes I hear stories from our kids who are, you know, their parents have for the best choice, they have the public school system or the private school system for their families. And you hear the stories they come home talking about or the stories they hear on the bus.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: And in those moments, I'm just thankful God has allowed us. Two.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: homeschool.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: And just even for, you know. I don't know if this is a good question or not, but even for those who are ministry -related -wise, it's giving us more of an opportunity. Not to have to rush home to put her to bed.
Matt McClay: Like we get to... stay longer and invest in our students and then you know, sometimes make up the next day that quality time with her that the student got that she didn't get.
Matt McClay: So like it's rewarding in that.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: behalf for our family.
NextGen Matters: Hmm. That's good. So speaking to other ministry leaders, especially... in our world of children's or youth men and youth ministry. what How could you encourage ministry leaders?
NextGen Matters: when it comes to having homeschool students in your ministry.
Matt McClay: I think... parents The parents... You got to win the parents. You got it. You got to win the parents. the The mindset of... the average homeschool parent.
Matt McClay: is that they want to be front and center involved in their kids' lives. So that's the reason they. Homeschool them.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: And you're you're asking them to draw to to leave their student. in an environment that they may not know very well.
NextGen Matters: Mm hmm.
Matt McClay: but they don't know what other adults are going to be around their student.
NextGen Matters: Mm -hmm.
Matt McClay: They don't know what their student's going to hear and they don't know what their student's going to be taught. Uh, the more you can do to win over those parents. Even being patient and and answering questions that you never thought you would.
Matt McClay: be asked.
NextGen Matters: Until you're a parent of a teenager.
Matt McClay: Oh yeah. Involve the parents if you can.
NextGen Matters: Good. Yeah.
Matt McClay: And you so you've met some of our leaders. We have some great.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: parents who are homeschool parents that that are leaders in our student ministry and The... Homeschool families talk. Uh,
NextGen Matters: Oh yeah.
Matt McClay: it's just like being in a private school of these homeschool families they all talk and they all communicate and if you can win over a a few parents.
NextGen Matters: Mhm.
Matt McClay: you will win over most of the parents if you have a few parents who are allies who are allies in your corner.
NextGen Matters: Yeah. That's good. That's good.
Matt McClay: so be patient with the parents and and try to win them over. And then Approach a homeschool student just like you would any other student.
Matt McClay: I think that's what they want more than anything else.
NextGen Matters: fine
Matt McClay: It's just what every student wants.
NextGen Matters: woman
Matt McClay: But they feel I think they feel it in almost a deeper way when when an adult just comes up to them and they're talking about their homeschool. basketball team to you.
NextGen Matters: Yeah.
Matt McClay: And you just sit there and let them talk.
NextGen Matters: There you go.
Matt McClay: That's... that's what That's what they're looking for.
NextGen Matters: Man, I'm glad you said that. first First thought. Through my mind, we are. Sharing this is the word trust. when you can earn and win their trust.
NextGen Matters: What a gift. If they will give you their trust. That is a gift. I think for any parent that's true. but especially from this context of homeschool. And then you also mentioned...
NextGen Matters: That teenager their homeschool basketball team, et cetera. Hey, on Wednesday nights, one of my go -to's is I'll walk around, you know. pre -game fuel before we actually formally go into the black box room.
NextGen Matters: Nine squares going on, everybody's just interacting, engaging, laughing and stuff. And I like to say, how was your day at school? What was one of your wins? And sometimes I'll hear a homeschool student say, Well, I'm a homeschool student.
NextGen Matters: In other words, I don't go to school And then I have a mental choice. Do I just agree with what they said? Or do I come back and say... no you do which is what i do no you do go to school how was your day at school to validate that they are in school.
Matt McClay: Yes.
NextGen Matters: I think so many times youth workers can maybe like. Not validate. that you're in a air quotes real school. They are in school. Matter of fact, they're probably under more academic pressure in some other schools.
NextGen Matters: Depends on the parent. But... I think that thing is validating that they're legitimately a student. I love what you said about the basketball team because actually we have a bunch of guys that do that.
NextGen Matters: They do their co -ops. They play soccer, basketball, et cetera. And that's like that's legit. So thank you. Guys, thank you for your time. and Thank you for your your friendship. That's what means the most to me.
NextGen Matters: But thank thank you for your time and for your wisdom. Matt, I'm going to put your email address in the show notes. April, may I put your email address? I just put you on the spot.
Matt McClay: sure
NextGen Matters: In case any parent, any mom or or dad listening wants to reach out to y 'all.
Matt McClay: Absolutely.
NextGen Matters: We'll do that because I'm just big on it. We got to connect. we We all are craving community. So that's what I love about having these guests like yourselves on. It's like it gives not just my thoughts and perspective, but some even better thoughts and perspective than what I can bring. So thank you for your time, you guys. Listener, thank you for listening.
NextGen Matters: I hope you have a great day and I hope you've really been able to enjoy this time together. As we've just been, well, I've been chugging my coffee. I don't know about them, but we've been having this conversation from Lynchburg, Virginia to Huntington, in West Virginia.
Matt McClay: one
NextGen Matters: so ministry leader I want you to know you're valued, you're loved. And remember that your leadership matters because your ministry matters because the gospel. matters.
NextGen Matters: Take care. God bless and have a great day. Great day.
