UR026: Dave Pirner (Soul Asylum) [1993 MTV Unplugged]

Transcript

Speaker: Welcome to Unplugged. Unplugged. Unplugged. Revisited.

Speaker: Greetings and salutations. Welcome back to a very special bonus episode of Unplugged Revisited, the podcast that celebrates, critiques, and dives deep into the last three and a half decades of MTV Unplugged.

Speaker: I'm your host, music journalist, pop culture anthropologist, and Unplugged obsessive, Will Hodge. Now, I'm calling this a bonus episode because the show is still technically in the middle of a between-seasons break.

Speaker: I just finished up Season 2 back in April, and I'm still cooking everything up about how Season 3 is going to look when we return. And of course, once all of that is finalized, I'll drop another quick bonus episode announcing all the details.

Speaker: But today, I'm temporarily popping back into your feed because I recently got the chance to chat with a really cool artist. Someone whose music I've deeply loved since I was like 10 years old.

Speaker: And someone I've been hoping to chat with since I first started the podcast. Here, I'll let him introduce himself. Hey, this is Dave Perner from Soul Asylum and you're listening to Unplugged Revisited.

Speaker: That's right, Dave Perner of Minneapolis alt-rock legend Soul Asylum. Hands down, one of the most quintessentially 90s-this-90s bands of the whole bunch.

Speaker: need somebody to shove. I want somebody to shove me.

Speaker: To be clear, me calling them that is in no way inferring that they are somehow stuck in nostalgic amber or permanently affixed to that singular Gen X decade. Not only did they amass a rabid fan base through their ferocious live show reputation and a half dozen releases during a quite prolific 80s period, but also, across the last 20 plus years, they've pretty much never stopped touring and have released a bunch more albums, including 2024's phenomenally raucous Slowly But Surely.

Speaker: And in fact, the whole reason I'm talking to Dave today is because Soul Asylum has got another brand new release, MPLS Unplugged, coming out August

Speaker: For Soul Asylum fans, MPLS Unplugged is a really cool live record with a really cool backstory. As most everyone listening to this podcast knows, Soul Asylum filmed a killer episode of MTV Unplugged, complete with a string ensemble and 60s pop star Lulu as a surprise special guest back in early 93.

Speaker: Don't make us nervous, alright? Here we go, we're gonna play a few songs for ya.

Speaker: And while we did get a scant few of the night songs sprinkled out across a couple compilations and singles, sadly the whole episode didn't get a proper album release at the time. Fast forward 30 years and one day later, and on April 22, 2023, the band finally released their entire 16-song MTV Unplugged set as a double-disc live album, the complete unplugged NYC 93, for Record Store Day 2023.

Speaker: And if just getting the album wasn't enough fan-friendly awesomeness, two days earlier, the band also played a live acoustic concert at Minneapolis' historic State Theater to not only commemorate their 30 years prior MTV Unplugged taping, but to also conjure up a little of the original episode's magic by bringing along another string ensemble to back them up, playing over a half dozen favorites from their original Unplugged setlist, and also inviting back guest keyboardist Ivan Neville who had joined them on the original filming session back in 93.

Speaker: They also threw in a couple other cool surprises during that 2023 show, like playing the live rarities What Will Become of Me and Farmer John, neither of which had ever been officially released.

Speaker: Which makes this new MPLS Unplugged album an incredibly rad and memorable entry in the Soul Asylum catalog on multiple levels.

Speaker: Getting back to me calling Soul Asylum one of the most quintessentially 90s-ist 90s bands, I just want to quickly but properly contextualize that qualifier. Because it goes beyond Soul Asylum just achieving all the normal commercial high points throughout the decade.

Speaker: Though, to be sure, they had those too. A couple platinum albums, a couple Rolling Stone covers, a best rock song Grammy for Runaway Train, over a dozen entries on the alt-rock radio charts, including a number one,

Speaker: a pair of top 20 Billboard Hot 100 mainstream pop hits, and a ton of high-profile TV performances on MTV, SNL, Letterman, Leno, and all the rest.

Speaker: But it wasn't just all those traditional mile markers that makes them such an iconic quote-unquote 90s band. As they were also a part of so many other uniquely 90s pop cultural moments that indelibly informed and defined the decade.

Speaker: Like for Bill Clinton's win in the 92 presidential race, Soul Asylum got to close out the huge MTV Rock and Roll inaugural ball and were also invited to play at the actual White House. President Bill Clinton has been dubbed the Rock and Roll President and today he proved it by asking Soul Asylum to warm up the crowd on the South Lawn of the White House for the National Service Act signing.

Speaker: They co-headlined the first MTV Alternative Nation tour with Spin Doctors and Screaming Trees, and they played a few European tour dates on Guns N' Roses' infamous, riotous, cancellation-prone Use Your Illusion tour that was constantly in the news during its two-and-a-half-year run. The Week in Rock.

Speaker: This week Axl Rose gets charged for a riot near St. Louis. Dave was also a member of the absolute coolest supergroup of the decade, not named Temple of the Dog, when he played with the Backbeat Band, which featured Dave Grohl of Nirvana, Mike Mills of R.E.M., Greg Dooley of the Afghan Whigs, and others, to record a dozen early Beatles covers for the soundtrack to the 94 film Backbeat.

Speaker: I'm gonna get on Mary, by Uncle John, steady at the missing body, gotta And in the midst of one of the decade's most notorious slash ridiculous musical beefs, when Coolio briefly went after Weird Al for Amish Paradise, on that exact same album, Soul Asylum was bestowed the left-of-center pop-cultural compliment of getting not one, but two Weird Al parodies.

Speaker: Syndicated Inc., which was a direct homage to Soul Asylum's top 20 pop hit, Misery,

Speaker: As well as The Night Santa Went Crazy, which was more of a broader style parody of Soul Asylum that drew heavily from their top five hit Black Gold.

Speaker: And not to belabor the point, but they also appeared on some of the decade's most emblematic alt-rock compilations, like both Sweet Relief Tributes and the massively influential No Alternative Comp, as well as some of its most idiosyncratic soundtracks, like Clerks, Twister, Chasing Amy, So I Married an Axe Murderer, I Know What You Did Last Summer, and others.

Speaker: And speaking of 90s movies, Dave even had a quick on-screen cameo as Janine Garofalo's boyfriend in the inextricably Gen X-rooted reality Bites, which starred Winona Ryder, who he was dating and who he met for the very first time, drumroll please, backstage at Soul Asylum's MTV Unplugged taping.

Speaker: Has there ever been a more quintessentially 90s set of dependent clauses, or a more flawless bringing it all back around segue? So that's what today's episode is all about. I'm really stoked to get to my Unplugged chat with Dave, plus dive into a jam-packed, spilling-over version of The Intersection, which, for any new listeners, is the contextualizing part of the podcast, where I spend some time setting up the interview by laying out where an artist was and where Unplugged was when the two converged.

Speaker: But before we get into all that Soul Asylum MTV Unplugged awesomeness, let's take care of a couple announcements and more on the other side of this vintage Unplugged commercial break. The most intense week of intimacy you've ever had.

Speaker: It's MTV's Best of Unplugged Week, featuring your favorite acoustic moments. Monday, Rod Stewart. Tuesday, 10,000 Maniacs. Wednesday, the premiere of Duran Duran. And Thursday, for the first time ever, a milestone in the history of rock. MTV presents Nirvana Unplugged.

Speaker: Okay, okay as I mentioned before, i have a feeling this episode is going to have a hefty run time. So, just two quick announcements this week. announcement one Since this episode is devoted to Soul Asylum, I thought it'd be fun to do a vinyl giveaway to celebrate the release of their brand new MPLS Unplugged album.

Speaker: Long time listeners will know how easy I like to make these vinyl giveaways, but just so everyone knows the drill, all you have to do to enter is send me an email, unpluggedrevisited at gmail.com, telling me at least one thing you like about the Soul Asylum MTV Unplugged episode or album.

Speaker: Make sure to put the words Soul Asylum Vinyl Giveaway in the subject line. And as a bonus, you can double your chances by rating and reviewing the podcast wherever you stream it and just attach a screenshot of that to your email.

Speaker: Super easy, right? Per usual, I'll leave the entry window open for about a month before I pull a random name and contact the winner to send out the goods. And if you'd like to enter but would rather have the album on CD instead of vinyl, just make note of that in your email.

Speaker: Since my last episode, there's also been some cool MTV Unplugged vinyl releases that I wanted to make sure were on your radar. First, after last year's box set only version, Neil Young's MTV Unplugged from the 93 season is finally available in the US as a standalone vinyl album.

Speaker: Second, KISS celebrated the 30th anniversary of their MTV Unplugged, which aired on Halloween 95 and came out as an album in 96 by pressing up a deluxe double disc embossed gatefold jacket version.

Speaker: And third, the massively exciting, feverishly anticipated Biggie.

Speaker: Alice in Chains is doing an amazing looking 30th anniversary vinyl rollout for their phenomenal god tier MTV Unplugged album. This is the first ever official US pressing and so far I've seen at least five different color variants to pick from in the pre-orders.

Speaker: That one's coming out in a month, September 25th, and I seriously couldn't be more stoked for it. So that's why I reached out to my friends in the Alice in Chains camp to work up a second vinyl giveaway for this episode.

Speaker: If you want a chance to win your very own copy of the Alice in Chains MTV Unplugged album on the stunning Solar Flare variant no less, which is the swanky red and yellow marbled wax version that's exclusive to the Alice in Chains website and I believe is already sold out for pre-orders, it's just as easy to enter.

Speaker: Send me an email, unpluggedrevisited at gmail.com, telling me at least one thing you like about the Alice in Chains MTV Unplugged episode or album. Make sure to put the words Alice in Chains Vinyl Giveaway in the subject line, and as a bonus, double your chances by rating and reviewing the podcast and attaching a screenshot to your email.

Speaker: And just to be clear, yes, you can enter both giveaways, but I need you to send two separate emails. So light your Natalie Merchant prayer candles for luck and get those entries in quick.

Speaker: Let's keep things rolling with this episode's Uncovered. This is the segment where I selfishly get to sprinkle even more unplugged seasoning into the episode by quickly highlighting a couple cool unplugged cover songs that are all tied around a singular theme.

Speaker: Taking a little influence from my previous mention of Weird Al, my pick for this episode's theme is MTV Unplugged cover songs featuring an accordion. So let's run through them. First up, a pair of squeeze box infused highlights from the 92 season.

Speaker: KD Lang dreamily covering Cole Porter's So In Love.

Speaker: And John Mellencamp letting his accordion and violin player go to town on Dillon's All Along the Watchtower.

Speaker: Then, you know I'm going to mention Nirvana's Unplugged anytime I can. So here's Nirvana bassist Chris Novoselic briefly switching over to an accordion for the band's cover of the Vaseline's Jesus Wants Me For A Sunbeam during their Unplugged taping in November 93.

Speaker: And finally, there's this surprising accordion-anchored-unplugged moment, courtesy of Sheryl Crow from her 95 episode, where she masterfully popped on an accordion for her cover of Led Zeppelin's Jamaica.

Speaker: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh

Speaker: Definitely let me know if I neglected any other killer accordion MTV Unplugged cover songs, but otherwise, that'll do it for our Uncovered segment this episode. What do you say we go ahead and jump into this episode's supersized intersection?

Speaker: Here's the story of how Soul Asylum answered this prophetic question they had asked themselves all the way back in 1986.

Speaker: as well as their long wind-up path to playing MTV Unplugged.

Speaker: So, the story of Soul Asylum begins all the way back in 1981, within the seeds of a Minneapolis working man's punk band called Loud Fast Rules, which was originally just a trio, consisting of Dave Perner on lead vocals and, not yet guitar, but drums, Dan Murphy on guitar, who was in the band until his musical retirement in 2012, and Carl Mueller on bass, who was in the band until his untimely passing from esophageal cancer in 2005.

Speaker: Loudfast Rules soon morphed into a four-piece when drummer Pat Morley joined the group so that Dave could switch over to guitar, an instrument slightly more suited for the hyper-animated lead singer.

Speaker: This not-yet-officially-Soul Asylum lineup appeared on a couple cool compilations from the pivotal early 80s Minneapolis-based indie label Reflex Records. 1982's Barefoot and Pregnant, with their songs Black and Blue and Propaganda, and nineteen eighty three s Kitten, with the song's happy and a rambunctiously blown out cover of Credence Clearwater Revival's Bad Moon Rising.

Speaker: Loudfast Rules diligently earned their stage stripes within the vibrant Minneapolis club scene, famously anchored around the venerated dual venue haven of First Avenue and Seventh Street Entry.

Speaker: They started amassing quite a reputation as an energetic, must-see live act, and their drive to seemingly play as many shows as possible saw them opening for bands like The Ramones, Motorhead, and The Exploited.

Speaker: And by the fall of 83, Loudfast Rules officially changed their name to Soul Asylum. Now, quick context on the Minneapolis music scene during this incredibly vibrant and creative early to mid-80s window that Soul Asylum came up in.

Speaker: At the time, there was a lot of talk about something called the quote-unquote Minneapolis sound, and it was applied in equal measure to two spiritually symbiotic but sonically distinct musical branches. At the risk of oversimplification, let's boil that bifurcation down to a funk wing and a punk wing.

Speaker: The funk side of the house was, of course, led by acts like Prince, Morris Day and the Time, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, the Grammy-winning R&B band Mint Condition, and others.

Speaker: While the punk side of the house was helmed by early hardcore punk-slash-alternative rock pioneers like The Replacements, Husker Du, and the Twin Tone Records roster. What's really cool about these two mutualistic musical scenes is that they were happening not just at the same time in the same city, but really happening together.

Speaker: For example, Prince's live recordings of Purple Rain, I Would Die For You, and Baby I'm a Star, which would all end up with some overdubs on his monster thirteen times Platinum Purple Rain album,

Speaker: They were originally recorded during a First Avenue concert on August 3rd, 1983. And just five days later, Loud Fast Rules was opening for Motorhead on the exact same stage.

Speaker: The following year, the Revered Village Voice year-end critics poll featured three Minneapolis bands in its top ten alone. Husker Du's Zen Arcade at number eight, The Replacement's Let It Be at number four, and Prince's Purple Rain at number two.

Speaker: And just a note, these Minneapolis sound connections still carry through to the present day, as Soul Asylum's current drummer, Michael Bland, was Prince's drummer from 1989 through 1996, before then going on to play with former Replacements frontman Paul Westerberg during his solo career.

Speaker: So that's the fertile sonic soil that Soul Asylum emerged from in early 80s Minneapolis. And even just within the punk branch of the Nebulous Minneapolis sound, Soul Asylum held a unique position as a bit of a one-band bridge between the hardcore, punk-informed, shall we say varsity squad? of the replacements in Husker Du, who achieved their critical acclaim and cultural impact in the mid-80s, and the subsequent alternative rock-informed JV team of bands like Babes in Toyland, The Jayhawks, and Tripp Shakespeare, which would essentially go on to become semi-sonic.

Speaker: who all found their biggest successes in the 90s after Soul Asylum's mainstream breakout. And I positioned Soul Asylum in that bridge role because around the same time that Husker Du was finally starting to show up on MTV and the replacements were playing slash getting kicked off of Saturday Night Live, that's when Soul Asylum was just starting to put out their first few albums.

Speaker: Okay, quick-ish rundown of Soul Asylum's early output. Roll the tape. In 1984, the band signed with Minneapolis indie label Twin Tone and went into the studio with Husker Du frontman Bob Mould as their producer to make their debut album, Say What You Will.

Speaker: I'm singing that about how you love I'm singing that song about how you teach mother. I'm singing that song about the years

Speaker: And while their debut is unquestionably steeped in their working man's punk and proto-alternative roots, they also fearlessly dabbled in some of their other musical interests, like the cowpunk country twang of money talks,

Speaker: the Oingo Boingo-esque haunted circus vibe of walking,

Speaker: and the surprise thrill of Dave blowing some slick saxophone on Stranger.

Speaker: In 1986, they got a new drummer, Grant Young, who ended up playing with the band for almost a decade. And they ratcheted up their burgeoning exposure to a wider audience by going out on a big Husker Du tour and releasing three separate albums.

Speaker: First, in January, they released their second album, Made to be Broken, once again on twin tone, once again with Bob Mould as producer, but this time with an official seven-inch single tied to the tracks.

Speaker: Then in June, they released Time's Incinerator, which was a bit of a retrospective catch-all, collecting some of the band's rawest early demos, outtakes, and covers of acts like Johnny Cash, James Brown, and The Monkees.

Speaker: And around Thanksgiving 86, they released their third album, While You Were Out, which carried forward the band's explosive rhythmic fury,

Speaker: while also elevating and expanding their sound into more melodically polished alt-rock sing-alongs

Speaker: and their ever-present country folk dalliances.

Speaker: In 1988, Soul Asylum got to add their name to the long list of bands whose sonic individuality and hard-earned live show successes allowed them the level up of jumping from hometown indie Twin Tone to famed major label A&M Records.

Speaker: This was not only a huge move for them exposure-wise and opportunity-wise, but it also afforded them with some major label muscle to get to work with some incredibly talented big-name producers.

Speaker: On their first A&M record, 1988's Hangtime, the band was produced by Lenny Kay, most known for his work with the transcendent Patti Smith and Ed Stasium, who engineered and produced some of the most memorable Ramones, Talking Heads, and Living Color records. Across the summer of 88, a couple of Soul Asylum's Hangtime singles started getting play on MTV's 120 Minutes.

Speaker: First, Some Time to Return,

Speaker: and then Cartoon.

Speaker: And by the end of the year, they made their MTV Live appearance debut on the channel's short-lived talk show, Mouth to Mouth. The Village Voice calls them the best live band in the country.

Speaker: Here's Soul Asylum.

Speaker: And at the tail end of 1988, they surprisingly appeared on one of the most interesting slash quirkiest children's compilations of all time, Marlo Thomas and Friends, Free to Be a Family.

Speaker: Now, this charmingly oddball record deserves its own standalone multi-episode documentary, but I'll do my best just to give you the highlights. As a follow-up to her popular early 70s award-winning children's album, book, and TV special, Free To Be You and Me, actress Marlo Thomas created the Free To Be A Family album, book, and TV special.

Speaker: And now, from the Hard Rock Cafe in New York and Gostela Radio Studios in Moscow, it's Free to Be a Family, the first satellite entertainment exchange between the United States and the Soviet Union.

Speaker: The album tracks were split pretty evenly between comedic entertainers like Robin Williams, The Muppets, Lily Tomlin, Whoopi Goldberg, Steve Martin, and many others. Plus a truly bananas mixture of musicians that included, and I kid you not, Soul Asylum, Amy Grant, and the Fat Boys, which coincidentally is also my personal dream blunt rotation.

Speaker: Oh, and Bon Jovi appeared in the TV special, but not on the album. We don't hear much Soviet rock music here in America. So Sergei, when you sent Josh a tape of Bon Jovi, we were really surprised.

Speaker: Well, now have we got a surprise for you. Here is Johnny Bon Jovi and Richard.

Speaker: Here's a little snippet of Soul Asylum's self-compassion contribution to Free To Be A Family with the song, It's Not My Fault.

Speaker: Okay, moving right along into 1989, as the tirelessly prolific Soul Asylum continued offering up a few more killer releases. Most notably was the six-song EP Clam Dip and Other Delights, which came out stateside in mid-April 89, and whose title and album artwork playfully poked fun at their recent move to A&M by aping one of the label's most famous albums, Whipped Cream and Other Delights, by legendary trumpeteer and label co-founder Herb Alpert, literally the A of A&M.

Speaker: Here's Dave Kendall's quick hit record review of Clam Dip on 120 Minutes. Here's something to cheer you up. Clam Dip, another delight. It's an EP from Soul Asylum that came out in Britain last year. Now Americans can get stuck in two.

Speaker: And although the first track smells like Led Zeppelin, the rest are fine examples of that unique Minneapolis recipe, sweetened melody dunked in boiling thrash. They also got their very first soundtrack placement in 89, contributing the clam dip track Just Plain Evil to the indie film Lost Angels, which starred ad rock from the Beastie Boys and featured some other great late 80s tracks from Soundgarden, The Cure, The Pogues, and Happy Mondays.

Speaker: And during the summer of 89, they also appeared on the absolutely amazing Neil Young tribute record, The Bridge, alongside The Pixies, Victoria Williams, Dinosaur Jr., Sonic Youth, Nick Cave, and many others.

Speaker: Soul Asylum was actually picked to lead off the album with their blissfully buzzy take on Neil's Zuma-era gem, Barstool Blues.

Speaker: Quick side note, this was actually the first Soul Asylum song I really remember paying attention to. During summer break between 3rd and 4th grade, my older sister, Ashley, had a best friend, Amy, who was over at our house with her boyfriend, whose name I can't really remember.

Speaker: And he overheard me listening to the Pixies' Doolittle album and let me borrow his tape of The Bridge to hear their cover of Winterlong. I was already a Pixies fan, but that tape is what first turned me into a Soul Asylum fan as well.

Speaker: So thank you to Amy's suburban dirtball summer boyfriend, wherever you may be. Okay, shifting into the decade where Soul Asylum would experience their massive mainstream breakthrough, the band first started making some bigger national waves with the release of their fifth full-length studio album, 1990s and The Horse They Rode In On.

Speaker: The album's rambunctious lead single, Spinnin', landed the band their first Billboard Modern Rock Top 20.

Speaker: In its follow-up single, Easy Street almost repeated, peaking just outside the top 20.

Speaker: Once again, it was 120 Minutes that ended up being Soul Asylum's biggest advocate at MTV, debuting their video for Easy Street in late 1990 and having them cut a Station ID promo in early 91. Hi, I'm Dave. And I'd be Dan. And we're from Soul Asylum. And you're watching 120 Minutes on MTV.

Speaker: And when the show released its retrospective CD, Nevermind the Mainstream, the best of MTV's 120 Minutes, in the fall of 91, they included Soul Asylum's hangtime single, Sometime to Return, amongst all the other XTCs, Sinead O'Connor, They Might Be Giants, and Sonic Youth Awesomeness.

Speaker: Now, you might remember that in this specific Fall 91 window, the alternative music scene was right on the cusp of mainstream breakthrough, but it hadn't fully happened just yet. The one-two punch of Pearl Jam's 10 and Nirvana's Nevermind were released that August and September, and Nevermind wouldn't overtake Michael Jackson's Dangerous at the number one spot on the Billboard 200 album chart until mid-January 92.

Speaker: However, Nirvana's eventual mainstream takeover, along with their fellow Big Four comrades in the grunge subgenre Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains, they all helped to send big money major labels scrambling to the alt-rock underground to sign the ever-elusive Next Big Thing.

Speaker: And Soul Asylum was definitely one of the bands that, thanks to a solid decade of different drum musicality and tireless work ethic, were more than prepared for that fortuitous moment.

Speaker: And they ended up getting snapped up by Columbia Records, turning them into label mates slash strange bedfellows with acts like Alice in Chains, Toad the Wet's Sprocket, Bruce Springsteen, and Mariah Carey. you think people realize that Soul Asylum isn't an overnight sensation?

Speaker: You get lot of them, but really liked your first record, stuff that. So that brings us to Soul Asylum's insane ninety two ninety three era, where they released their most celebrated and respected album, achieved their biggest commercial successes, and were invited to play both MTV Unplugged and The White House. What was that like?

Speaker: Well, it was very strange, Tabitha. Let's begin this rundown on October 6, 1992, when a freshly signed to Columbia Soul Asylum released what would become their signature album, Gravedancers Union.

Speaker: And while it would eventually go double platinum, win a Grammy, generate a Billboard Hot 100 Top 5 smash, hit number 11 on the Billboard 200, and land in the international top 10 across a half dozen countries, the initial album rollout unfolded in a pretty standard, measured fashion.

Speaker: A couple weeks before Gravedancers Union came out, the band stayed true to their punk rock roots and released the blistering Somebody to Shove as the album's lead single.

Speaker: by the phone Waiting for you to call me up and tell me

Speaker: Unsurprisingly, the explosive track eventually made it all the way to number one on the Billboard Alternative chart, while also hitting top 10 on the US Rock chart and cracking the top 40 on the UK Singles chart.

Speaker: On October 11th, just a few days after the album release, the band got their first special guest spot on 120 Minutes. It's Dave and Dan from Soul Asylum with us on MTV's 120 Minutes. The latest album is called Grave Dancer's Union, and in many ways the music scene has changed more than you have. Perhaps this is a ripe time for Solar Silent to actually break.

Speaker: As one of the songs was called that I thought was going to make it onto the album. I haven't changed. You haven't changed? you haven't changed your clothes. Yeah, well, I'm kind of dirty. In November, the band contributed a cover of the 70s punk classic Baby Baby to the alt-rock covers comp Freedom of Choice.

Speaker: And I'm going Baby, baby, baby before also making their big splash mainstream TV debut on Letterman. Our next guests are considered one of the best live bands in the country, and they're not too bad in the city. Thank you very much.

Speaker: Guess we've given him the night off. This is their new album here. It's entitled The Grave Dancers Union, and this is their network television debut. Ladies and gentlemen, here is Soul Asylum.

Speaker: The day after their Letterman appearance, they started up a big co-headlining tour with the Lemonheads, and then celebrated the year-end holidays by playing the annual K-Rock Almost Acoustic Christmas alongside Duran Duran, Violent Femmes, Suzanne Vega, and others, and then opening for the Beastie Boys at the Michigan State Fairgrounds on New Year's Eve.

Speaker: The band kicked off a head-spinningly busy 1993 in January with the release of their second Grave Dancers Union single, the acoustic-spiced, radio-ready social commentary, Black Gold.

Speaker: Black Gold in a white line Won't you fill up the tank, let's go home The song quickly became an alt-rock top ten, and the band got to be special guest host on 120 Minutes for an entire episode. Hey, hey, hey, I'm Dave again. And I'm Carl Still. And we're still from Soul Asylum. And we're still going to be your host for 120 Minutes on MTV. Very special guest host, mind you, on MTV tonight. Also in January 93, Soul Asylum played a hugely popular, historically important gig when they joined 10,000 Maniacs, En Vogue, members of REM and U2, and others to play MTV's Rock and Roll inaugural ball celebrating Bill Clinton's first presidential win. You know, you've got a new president America and he gets it.

Speaker: Enjoy. Good night.

Speaker: MTV and their high-profile Rock the Vote campaign were considered significant contributing factors in Clinton's win. And Soul Asylum got double tapped for the inauguration night event, which the c Clinton family showed up for.

Speaker: They first played Somebody to Shove and Black Gold during their mid-show slot, and then got to close out the entire show with a cover of Fleetwood Mac's Don't Stop, which was the de facto Clinton Gore campaign song.

Speaker: Two nights later, they made another big late night TV stop when they made their first Leno appearance. Rolling Stone magazine described the music of my next guest as the thinking man's thrash. There you are.

Speaker: balsam are called the best live band in America performing their hit, Someone to Shove, from their latest CD, Grave Dancers Union. Right from the inauguration, Soul Asylum. Across the spring of 93, Soul Asylum balanced their time between a grueling road itinerary, opening for Keith Richards and headlining their own Grave Dancers Union tour, while also popping up all over TV for some high-profile promo spots, like the NBA All-Star Jam, MTV's Spring Break at Daytona Beach, and Saturday Night Live. Hi, I'm Miranda Richardson. I'll be hosting Saturday Night Live with Soul Asylum. By the way, the secret of the crying game... Oh, don't do it! Don't ruin the secret i love a good secret! This was also when they filmed their MTV Unplugged episode, but a more on that in a minute.

Speaker: They then launched into an incredibly busy summer 93 by first releasing what would become their signature hit, Runaway Train, in mid-May.

Speaker: Now, the acoustic fronted song itself was an absolute smash on its own merits. Top 20 on the alternative chart, their first crossover to the mainstream pop chart where it went top 5, an eventual double platinum certification, and even a Grammy win for best rock song,

Speaker: but it was the Tony K directed music video that really helped cement the song into the cultural consciousness. As its Milt Carton-esque montage of real world missing children, which had a few different regional and international variations, was run in super heavy rotation on MTV and reportedly led to the physical return or informational resolution of over 20 kids featured in the original video.

Speaker: As Runaway Train was hitting max exposure on radio and MTV across the summer of 93, Soul Asylum embarked on a few more big tours, first joining Guns N' Roses to open some European shows on the ill-fated Use Your Illusion tour, and then co-headlining MTV's three-month-long Alternative Nation tour with Spin Doctors and Screaming Trees.

Speaker: They also dropped a couple cool extras over the summer. First, gorgeously covering Victoria Williams' Summer of Drugs for the first Sweet Relief charity comp, which netted them another Top 20 hit on Alt Rock Radio.

Speaker: Learn from the teens of the late 70s in the summer of the sun. And then having their black gold B-side, The Break, appear in the Mike Myers movie So I Married an Axe Murderer.

Speaker: Both on the soundtrack and within the film. Harriet, it's me Charlie. Also during that whirlwind summer, Gravedancers Union landed its first platinum certification, and a week later they were gracing their first Rolling Stone cover under the apropos headline Platinum Punks.

Speaker: Heading into the fall of 93, the shall we say runaway train of the band's pop cultural omnipresence barreled on. They first dropped by the 93 MTV VMAs to deliver a killer version of Runaway Train, with special guest Victoria Williams on acoustic guitar and REM's Peter Buck on mandolin.

Speaker: Though, it sounds like I was far more blown away by the one-off magnificence than Dave could cop to during the after-show interviews. Nah, it's just a gig, you know. Just play a song, it's no big deal. That's all they're asking you to do, so.

Speaker: It was nothing, really. The next day, they made their return appearance on Letterman. Our next band is unbelievable. They're terrific. Whenever I hear them, it makes me want to dive right into the old mosh pit. A few weeks after that, they made their return appearance on Clinton, when they were surprisingly invited to play a few songs on the South Lawn of the White House. Hi, I'm Kurt Loder with MTV News. Soul Asylum made a little bit of history on Tuesday morning, not their usual hour, we suspect, when the band became the first to perform at the Clinton White House. And a month later, they contributed a surprisingly non-winky, quasi-faithful cover of Marvin Gaye's Sexual Healing to the era-defining, alt-rock-heavy AIDS relief charity comp, No Alternative, which also featured Nirvana, The Breeders, Patti Smith, Smashing Pumpkins, Matthew Sweet, Soundgarden, Beastie Boys, and so many other legends.

Speaker: Alongside all these other signs of the band's newfound popularity and success, another example of Runaway Train fully breaking genre containment out into the mainstream is that it also became easy shorthand for an SNL skit about Michael Jordan's first of three and NBA retirements.

Speaker: Runaway Mike better come back. Got season ticket can get my By years in, after all that craziness and about 150 live appearances, MTV's 120 Minutes capped off the band's feverishly hectic 93 by awarding them the number two most popular alt-rock video of the entire year.

Speaker: Amidst an insanely stacked field, mind you, Nirvana's Heart-Shaped Box, Radiohead's Creep, Breeders' Cannonball, Cranberries Lingered, Juliana Hatfield, The Lemonheads, Bjork, every single one of them was ranked below Runaway Train. We're counting down the top 20 alternate music videos of 1993, and we are down to number two. And if there was ever a band that deserved success, it was Soul Asylum, and they got it in the year of 1993, after a decade of nonstop touring, non-existent radio support. Okay, right smack dab in the midst of all of that chaotic fun slash work, Soul Asylum also filmed their stellar episode of MTV Unplugged, which, around this time as a show, was both experiencing its own well-deserved glow-up after three seasons of musical maturation and pop-cultural entrenchment and also gently shifting its genre anchor from being mostly seasoned rock and metal acts over to the flourishing youth-oriented alternative scene.

Speaker: And while it's true that prior seasons had a few standout alt-rock unplugged episodes from bands like The Cure, Pearl Jam, and my beloved REM, the 93 season was gloriously alt-rock heavy on its own.

Speaker: Soul Asylum, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, the 10,000 Maniacs full episode, even Midnight Oil, while also paving the way for a bunch more high-water alternative shows to come in the following years.

Speaker: Bjork, Hole, Alice in Chains, The Cranberries, Live, Oasis, even Sheryl Crow's early All to Jason era. So it was a really cool window of the show's pop-cultural growth when Soul Asylum filmed their episode on April 21st, 1993.

Speaker: The previous summer, Mariah Carey's unplugged cover of the Jackson 5's I'll Be There jumped from TV to radio to become a Billboard Hot 100 chart-topping hit. And a few months later, Eric Clapton's Unplugged got released as a full-length album, which went on to sell a reported 26 million copies worldwide.

Speaker: At the time of the Soul Asylum taping, however, the show had not yet hit its next big bump of generating repeat multi-format radio hits with acts like Jodeci, Rod Stewart, and 10,000 Maniacs.

Speaker: In fact, speaking of 10,000 Maniacs, You know I always like to mention which artists did their unplugs within the same filming session. So in Soul Asylum's case, they were part of a two-day, four-show filming session, Midnight Oil and The First Spoken Word Unplugged on April 20th, with Soul Asylum and 10,000 Maniacs both filming on April 21st.

Speaker: Soul Asylum's episode was first broadcast on MTV on June 2nd, right in the middle of a special Unplugged Premiere week that aired 10,000 Maniacs the day before and Midnight Oil the day after.

Speaker: Unplugged Premiere week continues tonight at 10 with Soul Asylum. One of the things that made Soul Asylum's Unplugged such a rare and distinctive standout performance for the band is that they really seemed to pay special attention to each of the four unofficial Unplugged characteristics.

Speaker: They reworked their hits and back catalog favorites, spiced them up with some special instrumentation, whipped out a couple cool cover songs, and even brought along a surprise special guest, which was a trend that really just started in earnest during that 93 season. So they were kind of on the front end of that.

Speaker: As far as their expanded, unplugged instrumental palette, Dave, Dan, Carl, and Grant were joined by a string trio of cello, violin, and viola, as well as Ivan Neville, son of R&B legend Aaron Neville, on B3 organ and piano, and musical director Michael Blair on glockenspiel, congas, and various other percussion.

Speaker: The band used these ornamental sonic textures in some really cool ways, especially on their current trio of Gravedancers Union hits. They built out the B3 bed of set opener runaway train with staccato strings and glockenspiel flourishes.

Speaker: Everything cut and dry, day and night, earth and sky. And during Black Gold, they had one of the string players switch over to an eerily entrancing waterphone to evoke the unsettling police siren samples of the original's mid-song breakdown.

Speaker: But the most interesting element of the addition of the strings came during the band's agitated barn burner, Somebody to Shove, where the song's gritty electric guitar riff, not exactly the most acoustic-friendly motif, was cleverly handed over to the strings to not just retain, but also reinvent the song's biting, angsty pulse.

Speaker: Alongside their radio hits, the band unplugged and expanded a few more cuts from their soon-to-be platinum Gravedancers Union album. amping up the original syrupy string passages of The Sun Maid and New World, letting the B3 carry the original electric growl of Without a Trace, adding some piano to the campfire folk of Homesick, and using conga drums to infuse some extra percussive oomph to get on out.

Speaker: Out of my head, out of my head, of my head, out of my head.

Speaker: Throughout the set, they also continually dipped into their back catalog, reworking Grounded and Wee 3 from their 1990 and The Horse They Rode In On album, highlighting their longtime acoustic bona fides with Never Really Been from their sophomore album Made to Be Broken, and completely reimagining the raw electric rumble of Closer to the Stars from 1986's While You Were Out from this... Caterpillar crawling up the big holy sand Somebody that you want to this.

Speaker: to But my personal fave of their unplugged oldies was their decade later take on Stranger off their debut album way back in 1984. And while I would have absolutely loved to see Dave pull out his swanky saxophone again, his decision to instead play the horn lines on a harmonica was a pretty cool update.

Speaker: For their Unplugged cover choices, well, Soul Asylum has always been one of those bands that cast an incredibly wide net when it comes to their ability to reinterpret other artists' songs into their own vibe, and Unplugged was certainly no exception.

Speaker: First off, and possibly my most favorite track of the whole set. This was the live debut of their absolutely enchanting Victoria Williams cover of Summer of Drugs, which sadly didn't make the TV broadcast as the sweet relief comp wouldn't be out for another month or so.

Speaker: But man, is it so good. Sister got bit by a copperhead snake in the woods behind the house. Second, they closed out the taping with what was almost going to be their fan favorite tongue in cheek romp through Glen Campbell's Rhinestone Cowboy.

Speaker: Want to do Rhinestone? i We can't. We promised something really stupid. Before they instead pivoted to a song they've been covering off and on since the mid 80s, the 1973 UK hit, Ooh La La by The Faces, which in keeping with the tradition of this being one of the Faces songs that Ron Wood sung instead of Rod Stewart, Dan handled the lead vocals instead of Dave.

Speaker: And third, this one isn't technically a cover, but in the grand tradition of oddball unplugged between-song snippets, you know, Nirvana and Meat puppets goofing off on a few bars of Sweet Home Alabama, Alice in Chains doing Gloom, Despair, and Agony on Me from Hee Haw, etc., there was the briefest of Blink and You'll Miss It between-song foolishness that saw Soul Asylum channel a little Garth Brooks.

Speaker: And finally, blending together Unplugged's characteristic cover song element with the surprise special guest element, one of the most unexpected yet flawlessly awesome moments of the show came when the band brought out 60s UK pop icon Lulu to duet with Dave on her 1967 chart-topping US hit, To Sir With Love.

Speaker: Go school girl Dave

Speaker: Drawing tears and fighting it

Speaker: And I wanna note, what made this performance so cool and arresting is that this wasn't one of those 90s winky novelty jokes. You know, Tom Jones covering Lenny Kravitz's Are You Gonna Go My Way for the Jerky Boys soundtrack, or Steve and Edie doing Black Hole Sun on that Loungapalooza compilation.

Speaker: This was a legit, yes, intentionally nostalgic, but a no-winks, genuine tip-of-the-hat take that turned out a really cool and singularly unique unplugged moment.

Speaker: And as an interesting and still completely related side note, this wasn't the first cover of To Serve With Love to get a high profile MTV moment in 1993, as earlier in the year, at the Rock and Roll inaugural Ball where Soul Asylum also played, during 10,000 Maniacs set, the majestic musical pairing of Natalie Merchant and Michael Stike delivered an enrapturing duet of To Serve With Love.

Speaker: To serve with love

Speaker: And listen, it's in no way a competition. um'm just saying we were undoubtedly living in an absolute golden age of Gen X musical awesomeness. So, after the initial batch of Soul Asylum Unplugged re-airings across the summer and fall of 93, sadly their episode didn't materialize into a proper album release.

Speaker: Though, thankfully for us compilation and CD single zealots, a few of their official MTV Unplugged tracks did turn up across a couple releases. Somebody to Shove and Stranger appeared on their live acoustic-electric hybrid EP, Insomniac's Dream, in the summer of 94.

Speaker: Somebody To Shove showed up on the Multi-Artist Unplugged Collection Volume 1 in late 94. And Closer To The Stars, Stranger, and Somebody To Shove could all be found as B-sides across various import iterations of the Gravedancers Union singles as well.

Speaker: But thankfully, everything changed in 2023, when for the 30th anniversary, Soul Asylum finally blessed us with their entire glorious 16-song MTV Unplugged set.

Speaker: Even the unaired tracks. on the complete unplugged NYC 93. And to bring it all back around, they played their unplugged commemorating acoustic show, again with Ivan Neville and a string section in tow, which is now also being released as the brand new live album MPLS Unplugged.

Speaker: Okay, I am fully aware that I built this episode's intersection as really more of my own love letter to Soul Asylum, and I'm pretty sure most of you actually tuned in to hear Dave talk Unplugged.

Speaker: So let us tarry no further, friends. Here's my Unplugged Revisited chat with Soul Asylum's Dave Perner. I'm super stoked to be sitting here today with the ultra rad Dave Perner of Soul Asylum to talk about the band's hot off the presses brand new acoustic live album, MPLS Unplugged, as well as their 30 plus years ago transcendent performance on MTV Unplugged.

Speaker: My genuine massive thanks from both my current self and the 13 year old me for joining the show today, Dave. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me, Will. I appreciate it too. Well, before I mentally hustle you back to 1993, let's actually start in the present day and have you tell us a little bit about the 30 years in the making story behind your brand new acoustic live album, MPLS Unplugged.

Speaker: Well, ah there's an old theater in downtown Minneapolis where I've seen many great shows. And we i think it probably came up that it had been 30 years since the we had done the MTV Unplugged thing, which was the first time we ever did anything like that. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: So i don't know, I guess they reissued that record or something and we're like, oh, that was fun. It was it was great. um At the time we did that, ah we had never done anything even remotely similar to that.

Speaker: So we've done stuff over the years, but we're like, OK, let's do it. Let's do it in Minneapolis and and see how it goes. um So it it was cool. it's you know You're organizing a lot of musicians.

Speaker: that aren't in the band that are some of them are your favorites like Ivan Neville or the Robinson background singers or the you know so it's exciting to be on stage with the people that you really like and it's still kind of Spontaneous because it's not over rehearsed. Yeah. um But at the same time, the string players are reading. And Ryan did a lot of string arrangements for this show, and which was awesome. And you know we got Ivan Neville to come up. And he was on the MTV Unplugged thing.

Speaker: So he's kind of part of the thing that links all this together somehow. But yeah, it to it worked out pretty good, I think. I mean, I think sounds good.

Speaker: Yeah, I completely concur. It's absolutely phenomenal album. And it's really cool to have both of the albums, the original 93 filming, and then also the 2023 sort of commemorative live show and kind of play those together and see not only what's changed, but also, you know, what still feels awesome and familiar as well.

Speaker: Yeah, I think that when we did the MTV thing, it was really good production and we didn't have anything to do with it. So we just, you know, we showed up and and we did our thing and This time around, it was so much more like we can do anything in that strange way where I had a hell of a lot of ambition 35 years ago or whatever.

Speaker: But now I'm like, i don't need these other people, really. So... it was It ended up that our bass player, Jeremy Tapero, mixed the record.

Speaker: And i think our guitar player, Ryan Smith's brother, filmed it. and know So it was a Minneapolis kind of thing, which was nice because the first time we did it, we were in New York and we were, a well, not as wise as we are now. you go.

Speaker: But still, that that's amazing to have that DIY run through all the way through it. You know, with Soul Asylum being birthed in the bowels of like early 80s Minneapolis working man's punk, what was that experience like? How's it been for you at least twice now to play your normally cranked to 11 songs backed up by a string ensemble?

Speaker: well you know when we when we did the unplugged thing it was very experimental in a way that we had never done anything like that before and we've always kind of done little acoustic sort of we go out and play an acoustic show just for the hell of it basically and it's you know i think right before the mtv thing i started writing more on the acoustic guitar and realizing that it was just as viable i suppose as as the electric guitar and they you know

Speaker: Lucky for me, they both played the same instrument, basically. That works out pretty good. So it actually, you know, funnily enough, leads into the next question. I kind of wanted to even zoom out a little more just to the the concept of quote unquote acoustic music. Even before you ever started writing songs, when you were just growing up as a kid, what was your connection or lack thereof to music with acoustic guitars?

Speaker: Oh, uh, hmm. I think I went to the local community place one summer when I was very, very young.

Speaker: And that was the first time I ever took a guitar lesson. And it was like um songs like Tom Dooley and the Eerie Canal and like real folky kind of simple songs. And I don't know if my hands were too small or something.

Speaker: This guitar is hard. So I switched to trumpet, which is way harder in a lot of ways. But I was, my mother was,

Speaker: encouraging of that. She always wanted her kids to have music as something to fall back on, which I think is kind of funny now.

Speaker: So, you know, I got enough lessons on the trumpet and then in high school band, the other trumpet player who's still a friend of mine gave me his brother's copy of, are you experienced?

Speaker: And at that point I kind of threw my hands up in the air because I had switched to saxophone because like Bruce Springsteen and Bob Seger and all these saxes were big and rock, but really I just wanted to get into, uh, you know, I lived in new Orleans for 24 years, so I still suck at the trumpet. That's my joke. You're supposed to blow on it, but I suck on it.

Speaker: Um, But anyways, it all kind of comes together. I was you know just a radio kid when I was really little, listening to the transistor radio under the covers. And when we got home from doing going to the grocery store, I would ask my mother to leave the radio on so I could hear the end of the song while she she went inside. little things like that, you know? And then I, then I just went, you head first into it when I started my first band, which was called the shits, by the way.

Speaker: Amazing. I love it. um On those early soul asylum albums. So I'm thinking like pre grave dancers union, there's a scattered handful of acoustic numbers, like never really been P nine twiddly D was there ever any pushback internal or external? Yeah. to including those acoustic moments amidst all the other cranked up barn burners?

Speaker: No. I mean, i guess Never Really Been was kind of the first sort of song in that kind of a vein. But i on the record, I don't think I even played acoustic guitar on it, if I remember correctly. But...

Speaker: Not really. i mean, i you know, the the band was called Loud Fast Rules before it was called Soul Asylum. So everything was supposed to be loud and fast.

Speaker: So it wasn't really something I was thinking about. I guess never really been was the point where people just went, okay, but let's put this on on the record because we're never going to know what kind of band this is or something.

Speaker: Yeah. Well, just in reading a ton of interviews with you over the years, and you also kind of already alluded to it a little bit, I know there was sort of a shift in how you related to the acoustic guitar around that you know late 80s, very early ninety s window. Can you tell us that story of what was going on for you, like instrument wise and hearing wise and stuff as you were writing the songs for what would eventually become Gravedancers Union? ah Trying to remember the sequence of things.

Speaker: Yeah, I started realizing that I was fucking up my hearing. We were just playing at unbelievably loud volumes in very small rooms and you know doing stupid things. like Getting drunk and putting your head in a bass drum because it's funny.

Speaker: and ah And just stupid things like that. Just feeding back your guitar for for shits and giggles, I guess. So it kind of resulted in a crisis for me. I talked to Pete Townsend about it. I talked to Steve Albini about it. I talked to a couple other people about it.

Speaker: And once you fuck it up, you can't really fix it. yeah yeah go through that whole thing of like, i have to go to another expert to also say there's nothing you can do about it, which sent me into a whole weird thing with holistic medicine and all this kind of crazy, crazy stuff.

Speaker: So while this is happening, i I got so paranoid about noise that I just started playing the acoustic guitar. I and i didn't want to go to band practice with the loud shit. and And didn't want to expose myself to anything that was going to make it worse.

Speaker: But in the meantime, I'm learning that you can get used to anything, which is very important lesson. Right? Yeah. And people are like, you're going to get people tell you you're going to get through something and people tell you other people get through these things and people tell you all this kind of stuff, but you don't believe it or I don't believe it because I've already gone.

Speaker: so far down this spiral of like, how am I going to play music if I can't hear it? You know, there's a scene in ah the movie about Beethoven and Gary Oldman is playing Beethoven and he puts his head on the piano so he can hear it because he's blown his hearing out.

Speaker: But, you know, it's, it's, what do they call that? It's an occupational hazard. Yeah. Yeah. And I've learned to manage it, if you will. There you go. And that's kind of side effect was like doing acoustic gigs. Now it's turning kind of good because people actually like that, which I wouldn't be willing to admit when I was 25. Like, fuck all that mellow music, you or whatever it is. So.

Speaker: I come from very sort of punk rock place where I had thrown classical music out. I went to a music class at the University of Minnesota and I just felt alienated.

Speaker: And yeah, the more driven the

Speaker: the the classical training and all that kind of stuff, the more I was driven into the world of the Ramones and the Sex Pistols and and that kind of thing, which was where I was at when I was 18 or 19. I was pissed off about everything. Right. I'm little pissed off about stuff, Will, but you know. Yeah, right. You'll find different ways to make music or it just becomes pretty redundant. So there is always that. There's always some punk rock records. Every song sounded the same.

Speaker: Other records, punk rock or whatever. There's a lot of different dynamics and lot of you know different time signatures and feels and all kinds of stuff going on.

Speaker: And that's more what I gravitate towards. a band that can play something really really loud and aggressive and effectively but also play like like some girls from the rolling stones was it was a great record for me because it had like a country song on it and and like kind of a disco song on and all the It had these elements or Led Zeppelin, you know, they have these quiet passages and yeah, into that sort of more dynamics and stuff, which just kind of evolved out of just playing everything as loud and as fast as you can. Yeah, that's awesome. I love sort of hearing you talk about that journey of kind of there being some aversion to acoustic guitar, but then also sort of being driven into experimenting with it and and playing around with it. Because one of the things that I love so much about how you utilize the acoustic guitar, especially around Gravedancers Union, is that you really found this sweet spot between like versatility and sincerity, but also like familiarity, meaning like no matter if the acoustic was front and center, like Sunmaid or New World or really going toe to toe with the electrics like on Black Gold. It never felt like Soul Asylum had, I guess, maybe gone a different direction or anything. It just felt very sequential and intuitive. Did it feel like that to you at the time or did it feel like something brand new for the band? Oh, definitely felt like it was just part of the evolution and the exploration of what can you do with

Speaker: with the limited amount of knowledge that is required and uh you know these the mother of invention thing where you you you take what you have and you make something else out of it but yeah it seemed pretty pretty natural to me in a way that like our last record slowly but surely There's nothing acoustic on it. ah Steve Jordan was just like, just play the electric, you know, forget about the acoustic guitar. And I was like, great. Because to honest, it's a little more fun to play an electric guitar for people anyways.

Speaker: Right. Yeah. you're You're a very animated front man as well. So um while, don't get me wrong, you you have managed to make an acoustic, a low slung acoustic look very cool.

Speaker: There is just something about being that animated with an electric guitar that just it it it just hits the eye better, you know, than an acoustic sometimes. It's easier to swing around for sure. There you go. That's right. Yeah. um So I love hearing, you know, when you're when you're talking about these sort of like punk roots and the Ramones and stuff like that. i was curious when you guys did get asked to play MTV Unplugged back in 93.

Speaker: What was your own impression of the show at that time? Did it feel like sort of this experimental songwriter showcase or did it feel like, you know, a lame acoustic show?

Speaker: I think at that time we were just doing whatever. mean, we were just constantly traveling and we'd fly to fucking Japan to do interviews and a show or whatever. So it was just another sort of thing moving so fast that it's like, okay, let's do this. Let's do this.

Speaker: And we're going to do that. was like, that's intimidating, you Yeah. um So to have it work out ah was a big deal. was like, wow, we did that.

Speaker: I didn't know we could do that. So to that effect, it was a pleasant surprise. And I wasn't really in the in the way of, oh, this is what whatever people think of NTV Unplugged now. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: It was the only thing on MTV that was people really playing their instruments. Absolutely. Which is a pretty big deal. Yeah. After a while, I was like, oh, I'd be sitting here going, oh now I'm watching Tiny Desk. And the reason I like to watch it is because it's it's people really playing.

Speaker: And if you think about it, MTV was on like 24-7, but everyone was lip syncing and everyone was doing videos where they were pretending to play. So that was the real thing.

Speaker: And that's what made it cool for me. Yeah, but absolutely. Mostly that we could pull it off. you know Right. Yeah. And I mean, you absolutely did. I've always, um if if it's not plainly evident, having an MTV Unplugged centric podcast, absolutely loved the bands that really took the time to really see what the show could be more so than just like, oh, yeah, sure. We'll play our normal songs on acoustic guitar or whatever. And so um because y'all did it so well, I wanted to see if I could get your specific insights and memories on just a few like key moments from your 93 MTV Unplugged that I think really sort of set you guys even like at an upper level, even from some of the other cool unplugs that were going on at the time.

Speaker: So if we start with the show opener, Runaway Train, B3 Organ, a String Trio, Glockenspiel, you know, how did that version feel compared to when it was just you four playing it live during a normal show?

Speaker: I always forget that we opened with that. And that single hadn't come out yet. Yeah. So it was all pretty, still pretty new, you know. It was all very, i don't think when we made the record, we were thinking, oh,

Speaker: This is adoptable adaptable. i keep trying to figure out how to say that word. Do something like that with strings and all that kind of stuff. so yeah know when we When we played somebody to shove with strings and then decided to drop out the drums, it became a completely different animal. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Same song. Yeah. Same lyrics. But the strings were doing what I would call the chugging that an electric guitar does.

Speaker: and it And it does have there some you know some momentum that's that it needs. ah So I think that surprised us all that that was even possible. Yeah.

Speaker: So that's led to many more, well, maybe we could do this like that or this like that. or this So to that effect, it was, ah it was great. It's just very surprising, I think, to all of us going, wow, you know, we can do this. Yeah. Somebody to show was actually the the next one that I want to talk to you about, because I was very curious about Like who had that sort of like amazingly clever idea to say, instead of just being like, oh man, somebody to shove is like too loud and awesome to play acoustically to actually move that riff and everything over to the strings. Like who, when did that idea first started coming up? Like who gets credit for that? I don't know. okay I have no idea, but I do know that this is the first time I brought up Michael.

Speaker: I think his last name is Michael Blair, a percussionist that I was a big fan of. i didn't I thought an MD was a doctor at that point, but that's a musical director.

Speaker: We kind of hired him to do that. He was playing percussion, but also kind of going, maybe more of that and less of that or something. So it very well could have been his idea to just not have drums on that song.

Speaker: Oh, wow. Yeah. I think I only knew him. Didn't he play with Tom Waits? Yes. Yes. played with Like, ah yeah, I kind of tracked him down. Very cool. OK. So the next one I wanted to ask you about, how about that arresting acoustic reworking of Closer to the Stars? What inspired the idea for that sort of creative sonic overhaul of that song? Well, I was sun i think the acoustic thing was sort of bubbling for a long time.

Speaker: So Closer to the Stars was written on an acoustic guitar. But at the time, as we were saying, the band didn't use acoustic guitars. I immediately adapted it to a punk rock kind of a song.

Speaker: And at one point or another, we did it acoustically, and that was probably closer to what was accurately going on in my head at the time when I was writing the song.

Speaker: So, yeah, ah it took a while to to realize that, I think. yeah Everything had to have a certain amount of brute force and intensity and reverence. Yeah.

Speaker: That's so cool to think about that not being like a new reinvention, but more like that was actually getting back to the genesis of how you wrote it. That's cool. I'm going to be thinking about that next time I hear that. Okay.

Speaker: I mean, youre you're getting you're discovering music as you're growing up and like you you hear Metallica for the first time, but you're also getting turned on to Woody Guthrie.

Speaker: That's kind of how it works for me. Sometimes you're finding new things that are new and sometimes you're finding new things that are old. Yeah, there you go. So another oldie to ask you about, Stranger, while I totally dig the harmonica that you played on Unplugged, I got to know if there was a moment where you considered actually playing a saxophone on Unplugged. Well, it's funny when I played saxophone on that song on the record, Paul Stark, the guy that ran Twin Tone Records was recording it.

Speaker: And I could sort of tell that he was kind like, eh. And it was just this terrible instrument that I you know bought at a garage sale or something.

Speaker: And to me, it's it's not great. It's like I wasn't really even playing sax at the time. was like, oh, maybe I could play it on the harmonica, which is, you know. ah no it didn't make me much. Oh, okay. I got to carry a saxophone around for one song, and go it's going to get kicked off the sax stand at some point or another. And I've had these experiences before where, and know, you want to take a shitty instrument on the road,

Speaker: because you don't want to bring your good trumpet. Yeah, yeah. It sounds terrible, or you're just a terrible player. But there's a couple things that I've done as a multi-instrumentalist, which is basically jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none.

Speaker: Where I probably, if I were to do it today and I needed to have sax on that song, I would get a sax player to do it. Oh, okay, yeah. Probably. Probably.

Speaker: We had try it myself first and then go, nah. Right, right. We'll ah keep our eyes out for that. we'll We'll see if it shows up one day. um Well, as far as your unplugged cover songs, I got to say first, dude, anytime you sing Summer of Drugs, it's like one of my absolute favorite covers of all time. So I was just curious, how'd you first get connected to the Sweet Relief compilations and what drew you to picking Summer of Drugs for y'all's entry?

Speaker: Well, ah speaking of acoustic stuff, not that long ago, we did me and Ryan did a run up the West Coast, and Victoria opened for us. And that was a great full circle sort of thing. Victoria Williams is one of my favorite songwriters. and at some point or another there was a there was a connection between had members of the Jayhawks had been roommates and I became aware of Victoria Anton Fear had produced her first record and he said you have to fall in love with your singer and that was his producer advice to me and ah you know by and by id I listened to more and more of Victoria's music and then I met her and then we

Speaker: wrote a song together. i just remember going through her record and because it was like, oh, we're going to make this benefit record and raise some money and we're going to cover Victoria's songs.

Speaker: And summer of drugs just jumped out at me. And I still call it one of the best first verses ever written. And I love singing it. But yeah, she's great. And ah we got to play it at McCabe's in LA together. And i sort of I was like, watch this, Victoria. And we do this, whoa, whoa. And the whole crowd is singing back to us.

Speaker: She's just like, holy shit. You know, right now. It was really cute. I changed the key or something, but was incredible. And she's going to put a new record out pretty soon, which is pretty. Really? oh that's so good to hear. Breaking news. I love it. She's she's absolutely one of my favorite musicians. She does my absolute favorite cover of Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas. Just I mean, it's it's absolutely amazing. But I also love knowing that you love singing that song as well, because i think that helps it.

Speaker: solidify in me even more whenever I've heard you sing easily 30, 40 cover songs, but there's something about when you sing that one that just feels like you're really like channeling it in some sort of unique way. I just, I love it. I'm glad you guys did it on Unplugged.

Speaker: And then, of course, if we're talking Unplugged and Unplugged to cover songs, we can't let you go without talking about ah you getting to do To Sir With Love, that duet with Lulu as your surprise special guest.

Speaker: Tell us how that killer moment came to be, because the special guest on MTV Unplugged thing, you guys were kind of on the front end of that trend. I think the story goes something like this. We were covering that song and yeah, we used to cover just anything that like sexual healing because because you don't really want to hear a punk band play that song. And that's what makes it interesting. Yeah.

Speaker: So to s serve with love was to say I had the 45 when I was a kid. It was just a song always loved. Well, that was another moment where I learned the song, brought it into practice, and we were like, holy shit, we can kind of play this. Yeah. um So Lulu was doing, i think she had a record coming out or something.

Speaker: um And Natalie Merchant was also doing an unplugged thing. So somehow or another, Natalie Merchant wanted to do to serve with love with her too, but she chose us.

Speaker: Oh, wow. For some strange reason. Then we played it with her in England, and the punk rock crowd was like, who the hell is this person? like It's so interesting the way all that stuff works out. But you know she was absolutely delightful. I mean, if you cover a song for a while, that was the same thing with Victoria. And then you hear the person that sang it before you did. Yeah.

Speaker: kind of You're real-time schooling in some way another. But she was really sweet. And it's a really weird choice. And I i think that's what makes it interesting.

Speaker: And that was just a coincidence that she happened to be like in town promoting something. But ah stuff yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. do it You know? Yeah. I love it. Cause it also just feels very, um, genuine and like not winky. Like we're trying to like make fun of it or something because like, I remember around that time you would see like, uh, I remember seeing Don Ho seeing the beastie boy sabotage on like Conan O'Brien or you'd hear like Steven Edie covering black hole sun. And you're like, what is happening here? But this felt like the inverse of like something very cool and authentic. So I love that. Yeah.

Speaker: Well, last unplugged question you recorded in April. It airs at the beginning of June. And this was right around the time where y'all right. We're about to go out on to like really interesting runs of shows. You did the European shows with Guns N' Roses. And then you went on that like multi-month Alternative Nation tour with Spin Doctors and Screaming Trees. So I was just curious, just being a 90s teenager obsessed with all those bands.

Speaker: What's a snapshot memory from each of those two tours that sort of encapsulate those moments for you? I don't know. I was just going to say, you seem to remember this stuff better than I do.

Speaker: So there was a spin doctors, the screaming trees thing is, you know, that just makes me think about Mark Lanigan. Yeah. You know, and yeah, what a good soul. Man, what a vocal force. Yeah. And yeah, good soul, like you're saying. What was the other? thing Oh, that is such a weird memory because I was never into Guns N' Roses. Right.

Speaker: But I guess if you asked to get played that gig, you'd take it. you know So there was a lot of sort of shenanigans with that. Axel's helicopter and this, that, and the other thing.

Speaker: um But my favorite memory from one of those shows, it was somewhere in England. all all the GNR fans or whatever were, there's a gate and they're all waiting to come into this like soccer field or whatever it is.

Speaker: And they open the gates and all these kids start running towards the front of the stage. And the the crew guys or the sound man or somebody plays this tape that's going, you in the black shirt, stop running.

Speaker: And 200 kids in black shirts. I think it was priceless. That's amazing. I think, uh, suicidal tendencies was the other band. Oh, nice. It's very, it's kind of surreal. I mean, I just kind of remember half going, what what the fuck am I doing here? And the other half going, ah, it's just another day at the office, you know? Right, right. Yeah. Wow. What's the view out the window today? Yeah. um One last question. This one non-Unplugged related.

Speaker: i want to ask you about this record from 1988. yeah. Marlo Thomas and Friends, Free to Be a Family. After so many years of wondering, please tell me everything about the song It's Not My Fault and how y'all ended up alongside Amy Grant and the Fat Boys on this charming oddball of an album. It's so funny.

Speaker: I told somebody that the other day because they were talking about pretty cute. Anyways, I was like, yeah, we were on this record. with And I couldn't remember who else was on the record.

Speaker: But we got asked to do it. And Marlo Thomas, who was that girl, yeah you know who I watched growing up as a kid. I'm like, yeah it's that girl. It was just already kind of a funny joke. I'll do something for that girl.

Speaker: It was the first time we worked with George Draculius. Yeah, absolutely. Just a great I called him recently to see if he was interested in producing anything. It was kind of funny. But anyways, um so they they put us in a studio and they gave us this song that it's like kids music. So I didn't know how to interpret it. So it's kind of that thing where, you know,

Speaker: I was just talking about Prince covered one of my songs and i listened to his interpretation and my interpretation of Summer of Drugs is different than Victoria's and this, that, and the other thing.

Speaker: um But I didn't really, i didn't, I had no understanding of what this project was supposed to be about. And i started singing the verses like, ah like the fresh kid from Bel Air or whatever his fucking name is.

Speaker: Will Smith, the yeah. George is just like, nah, why don't you want to try something else? And then I just kind of sang it my own voice, and he was like, okay, that's better. But I kind of had the music all figured out. I wanted to make it I can't even remember how it sounds, but more whatever. And ah yeah, it's just one of those things where you just record something and you give it to somebody and they put it on a record and you never hear about it again. Or some dude named Will asks you about 35 years later.

Speaker: But it was a good experience. It was great. I love this. And, you know, that girl has always been cool with me. And it's a great cause. I love kids, you know. Yeah. good Yeah. I think it's one of the most interesting, you know, entries in the Soul Asylum catalog. And when you just read down because the other half of the album, it's only like half musicians. The other half is all like comedians and entertainers and the Muppets and people like that. So it's a revisit that record. Yeah, yeah. I'll ah i'll send you the files. It's no problem. It's easy just as an MP3. But it's great. Yeah, I actually interviewed George, I guess maybe two or three years ago now. I was doing a piece on um the Barbie soundtrack that he worked on. So I got to talk to him about the Barbie soundtrack. I was like, after all these years, I get to talk to George Draculius. And it's about, you know, none of the Def Jam stuff, not Black Crows, but Barbie. That's funny. I didn't know he was involved in the Barbie project.

Speaker: Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. He's a music supervisor, right? And that's his gig gig. Good gig. Yeah. I have to be a music supervisor for one movie.

Speaker: That was ah with Kevin Smith, right? Yeah. Really fun. Yeah. Music goes to this, then you got to call the publisher and they go, no. Or they go, you can use it for a million dollars.

Speaker: Or they go, yeah, sure. fucking can Give us 10 grand. i It's just weird, but it's really fun. it's really fun Yeah. Yeah. So you're still, you're still in the market. If there's anyone out there listening, then he's a music supervisor. Absolutely.

Speaker: If Dave can ever get a day off the road. Awesome. Well, Dave, again, i appreciate you so much for coming on the show and for entertaining all of my questions. Thank you for literally decades of awesome songs. And I hope I get the chance to talk again real soon.

Speaker: Thank you. Well, I appreciate time, man. Oh man, what an absolute dream chap for me. I'm glad, ah you know, you all could be a part of it. My sincere and immense thanks again to Dave for taking the time to join the show today and for blessing us all with so many fantastically memorable songs and wildly entertaining live performances.

Speaker: Be sure to check out Soul Asylum's brand new acoustic live album, MPLS Unplugged, releasing August 28th. And don't forget to send in your entries for our Soul Asylum and Alice in Chains vinyl giveaways.

Speaker: Alright, I think that'll do it for this very special bonus episode of Unplugged Revisited. If you'd like to get in touch to share your own Unplugged memories, offer up a correction, ask a question, or connect with the show for any other reason, you can send me an email, unpluggedrevisited at gmail.com, leave a voicemail by calling 234-REVISIT, which is 234-738-4748, or reach out on social media.

Speaker: As always, please take a moment to follow the pod on your platform of choice so that it'll automatically pop into your feed when it goes live next season. Or at least until I pop back in with another bonus episode or special announcement.

Speaker: Until then, my friends, be kind to yourself and look out for each other. Unplugged Revisited is a son of a butch production. The show is written and hosted by me, Will Hodge.

Speaker: The show is edited by Amanda Hodge and myself. Podcast artwork is by Jordan Ullam, and you can find more of their incredible work at jordanullam.design. That's J-O-R-D-A-N-U-L-L-O-M.design.

Speaker: That is the beauty of Unplugged.