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The Conservation of Gorian Dray (part 2) - Trowel 30
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It’s part two of our quest to conserve the portrait of Gorian Dray, with special guest and professional conservation expert Jessica van Dam. But should we actually be conserving this portrait at all? After all, you could argue that it is itself a person. So what are the ethics around working with human remains in archaeology? How would we approach this particular fantastical example? And where in this world is Gorian Dray? Tune in to find out!
Books Mentioned
- Strange Practice (Vivian Shaw)
- The Truth (Terry Pratchett)
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- For rough transcripts of this episode, go to: https://www.archpodnet.com/trowel/30
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Transcript
Introduction to Episode 30
00:00:01
Speaker
You're listening to the Archaeology Podcast Network. You have my sword. And you have my boat. And my trowel. Hi, you're listening to episode 30 of And My Trowel, where we look at the fantastic side of archaeology and the archaeological side of fantasy. I'm Ash. And I'm Tilly. And this is our second part of
00:00:31
Speaker
If you haven't joined us for part one, we recommend you go back and have a listen because
00:00:50
Speaker
And it's falling apart.
The Dilemma of Dorian Gray's Cousin
00:00:52
Speaker
So we've enlisted Jess to help us figure out how and if we can help Dorian Gray out. No, not Dorian Gray, his cousin. Again, I just want to point out it's not my fault. I didn't know it was there. Blame the wizards.
00:01:07
Speaker
Okay, fine. Anyway, Jess, I was wondering, since Tilly and I are simply shovelbombs and lab rats, what is art conservation? Can you tell us a little bit more about this the but ah process and what it entails? We sort of covered this in the last episode, but just to summarize again, art conservation preserves, sometimes restores, basically stabilizes museum objects, old objects, so paintings,
00:01:36
Speaker
any sort of three-dimensional object, coffins, whatever. Textiles, and we learned, which is probably easier than glass and metal. Well, see, I don't actually like working on textiles, but it is technically easier sometimes, maybe. Oh, I see. Okay. And what kind of conservation does it, I'm just curious, because you did indeed, you mentioned this in the last episode, that textiles and organics are kind of easier. What's the conservation of textiles? Do you have to basically like, re-knit a section? Or like, how do you conserve textiles?
00:02:09
Speaker
Well, as not a textile conservator myself, but being friends with them. Sorry, we keep asking you about things that you're not specialized.
00:02:19
Speaker
Well, it makes me sound really smart. I don't know, but... I mean, you know the answers. Yeah. You are textiles. o Well, again, it's always dependent on the object. Every object is different. Every piece of clothing is different. So ah sometimes, yeah, it would be remitting a little section or adding a little patch.
00:02:41
Speaker
or just leaving it a lot of the time with textiles, you should just leave it and hope for the best. Also, with more modern textiles that are made out of synthetic materials, they tend to try to destroy themselves by creating themselves an acid environment. Kamikaze textiles. Exactly. They often get like vinegar due disease, so you can actually like smell vinegar coming off of them, but they have created their own acetic acid, basically.
00:03:09
Speaker
so i have agency they're objects with agency I love how you went to that and I immediately was like, I bet that doesn't taste good on chips.
00:03:21
Speaker
Probably not. That's not recommended as well. but We have, I actually, so we started to ask questions of our lovely followers and listeners before we do our recordings and we managed to get a couple of questions that we wanted to ask you, if that's okay, about art conservation and kind of how how it all works and things like that. And actually the questions that we got are quite similar, but I'll still do them as separate questions and maybe you can add the nuances to each one. I don't know. So our first one is from Vesuvius on the APN Discord server.
Museum Object Testing and Deaccessioning
00:03:56
Speaker
Who asks, if you really can't save a piece of art too far gone, etc., do you try to get everything out of it in terms of, quotes, taking it apart? So destructive testing and sampling, often you have to be on time for those as well if you want good test results. So what parameters do you use to make that decision? I think that would sort of depend on if you're talking about a museum object or not, because museums would have to like choose to deaccession an object to sort of get rid of it. And a lot of museums just don't have the the staff to deaccession objects. It takes a lot of paperwork. So to fully destroy an object for testing, let's say, I think it would have to be either like you would have to keep the samples and have those as the object or deaccession it completely and then send it off to whatever lab. For the most part, I can't really think of anything where you would
00:04:54
Speaker
want to destroy something for testing. I could see that more for like forensics, honestly. But I think that's great. It's an archaeological question, isn't it? Because archaeology is destruction and all that. So we do sort of tear it apart. So maybe it's just a bit different for art conservation. said Well, and it's.
00:05:16
Speaker
and And if you could think about like cleaning as destructive, which a lot of conservators do, just removing a layer of dust, you could disturb the surface, which is you know destroying it and it's taking away its lived past. And so then, you know is do you want to clean it? Do you not want to clean it?
00:05:36
Speaker
How far do you want to go with that? I mean, that's what I ask myself about my house as well these days. like yeah i you know Do I want to get rid of that lived lair? I think this is a really moral question that I need to ask myself before I get the paper off. It's what I keep saying. That's an occupation lair. Yeah. Well, future archaeologists will have no clue what happened in my house if I clean it all the time. My goodness. Exactly. I've got to leave something for them.
00:06:04
Speaker
Yeah, do what the Romans do and just litter everywhere. Right. I mean, I do have two small children. It looks like that's happening in the house to be fair. Except the litter is like stuffed monkeys. but So our second question is kind of related. So I guess it sort of expands on this a little bit.
Challenges in Preserving Modern Materials
00:06:23
Speaker
It's from Sasquatch Leatherworks on Instagram, who asks, what is the hardest item to preserve? And are there times when you just can't save something?
00:06:33
Speaker
I would go back to talking about objects that are trying to destroy themselves by what they're made out of. That's a lot of modern materials, so I don't work on contemporary art.
00:06:45
Speaker
it is just a nightmare for this reason that a lot of the materials that we've more recently created are not stable and so they just want to fall to pieces and so certain types of plastics, synthetic fibers, all of these things just want to fall apart. And there's really not a lot you can do. For some cases you could freeze them and that will slow the process down. In other cases, so like one of the sort of old examples that's not modern is iron gall ink. And because it has iron in it, obviously the iron can corrode if it's too wet or too acidic and it inherently becomes acidic. So you can put a like buffering layer around the ink or like mounted on a buffering layer. So like
00:07:37
Speaker
something infused with something basic to counteract the acidity like sodium bicarbonate or baking soda. That will kind of slow it down, but it never really quite stops if that makes sense. So there is just a point at which you just have to let it go.
00:07:52
Speaker
yeah I mean, again, one can try to slow things down. And is that because I remember this is showing my ignorance, but I read somewhere that is there's like quite a lot of paintings, especially from a particular era. And I can't remember which era it is that all look very like rustic and browns and sort of mellow colours, but actually they would have been super bright colours, but because the painters, yeah, like you were saying, like the ink or the the pigments or whatever have kind of corroded or like done something different over time. And I mean, that's almost like the Greek statues as well, right, which all the older marble statues used to be coloured in these ridiculous, like gaudy colours, I say ridiculous, but like just really, really bright colours, which give such a different
Restoration vs. Preservation Debate
00:08:36
Speaker
perspective. So I mean,
00:08:37
Speaker
Is there ever, when you're preserving it or when you're conserving it as well, do you go with like the latest version or do you try to go to the original version? Do you conserve how it's weathered? Well, again, always dependent on the object with like some of those paintings. A lot of that is like varnish that is discolored, so if you remove that top layer of like that sort of quote unquote clear layer on top of oil paintings that is typically there.
00:09:09
Speaker
it will reveal the bright colors underneath. And so a lot of those really satisfying conservation painting videos as we're moving that discolored varnish. So good. Would love to be a painting conservator for that satisfaction. So good. It was recent, wasn't it, that the Louvre, and I think Ann of Cleves is actually a bit of a theme in this. samath But I'm pretty sure the Louvre recently did the restoration on Ann of Cleves portrait.
00:09:37
Speaker
And it turned out it was like meant to be, well, it looked very brown background, but when they restored it, it was bright blue. ah That might be the one I was thinking of. Yeah. Then cause I just remember seeing something, seeing a video or something. Oh, very cool. What's nice about oil paint is that the pigments used in oil paint, especially traditionally, they're not going to fade in the same way. So like watercolor will fade quite a lot.
00:10:02
Speaker
But a lot of the oil paints just really are very stable. And so they won't do a lot. But that top layer of varnish will just turn sort of brownish yellow. And so that's what gives all the old paintings this like old look. Right. So if you wanted to stay looking old, then you could leave the varnish. But if you want to reveal like the actual artist intentions when they painted it, then you remove the varnish and replace it with and typically a modern varnish that won't discolor like that.
00:10:31
Speaker
something acrylic based. See, that's very interesting because I was wondering if if you've decided either to do, you know, the main, the kind of keeping it as ah as it was, and or as you had seen it, what's the sort of maintenance with that? So if you restore it to its original, do you keep it as its original, the original intent of the painting, or or do you let it fade again? Do you let it age again? Yeah, to kind of see that process. Give future conservators a job.
00:11:00
Speaker
job security use modern materials to restore it usually if we're bringing some an object back to its original iteration we call it restoring as opposed to conserving conserving I think of more as making the new bits blend in and keeping it looking old. So, you know, showing that it's lived a life, it's traveled through time and space. It's, you know, it should look old, but with paintings, it's a little, it's a little more interesting because
00:11:41
Speaker
you can kind of tell the paint, like the artist's original intentions with
Art Restoration Techniques
00:11:45
Speaker
a painting. And so taking that old varnish off, putting on a new varnish, hopefully a varnish that won't discolor, then you're sort of maintaining the original as opposed to showing that it's aging. And by using those new materials, it typically won't do that fading, darkening, gross thing that old ones did.
00:12:05
Speaker
The gross. gross man yeah har the grime And can, can you get any research from that, that process as well? Um, I was just thinking, cause we learned all about like the, I just always remember, you know, you're like, they didn't have this type of purple pigment in this time period. Therefore it's a fake. Like people always, you know, talk about that in terms of identifying fake paintings and stuff. So is that also, yeah, is that also something that can conservatives do?
00:12:31
Speaker
Yes, usually you have to be very specialized to do that. I am not because it takes a lot of lab equipment that is very expensive. So a lot of the big museums have that kind of equipment or access to labs that have that equipment. They have like the cool sort of like these like basically array guns that will like test the various elements, the various elements in this. yeah So you can say like, oh, it's got copper, zinc and whatever, it must be this pigment. And so, you know, you can get very specific with it. And like even different places on different paintings will have different pigments. And so you can see repairs that way. So if it had been altered at some point, that's how they can like x-ray
00:13:18
Speaker
paintings to see like, youre like the initial sketch to, you know, one layer and then another layer, you know, when they like cover things. object bioography says Yeah, that's very, very cool. And I like that you can also see previous like repairs and restorations. That's awesome. Yeah.
00:13:44
Speaker
Oh, and going back to your like the Roman statues and Greek statues that were brightly painted, I was in Bath a few years ago, and they have like a lintel or something that's displayed in this room that was originally brightly colored, like bright colors. And so for like a few seconds, it will be what it looks like now, which is just like white marble. And then they have like bright colored lights to show how it was painted. And I think that's a really cool way of not restoring it per se, but like showing the original and integrating modern technology with display. Well, and it gives such a different perception of, because you think of like the polished marble, the Greek, you know, of Roman, whatever. And it's like, oh, the classical, elegant, sophisticated. And then you see it coming in like bright red and blue and green and yellow like things. And it's like, oh, wow. Okay. like Very different. like to I mean, it's still beautiful, but it's a very different perception, I would say.
00:14:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Oh, where was it? Either the British Museum or the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. They also have, you know, one of these rooms with all the classic white statues, but then they'll have images next to it of renderings where they've been color like colored.
00:14:56
Speaker
to like show you what it would have looked like. And it is really jarring to and because there's a lot of like coral. I just remember there was a lot of coral on this one statue and I was like, but that's an interesting color choice. Okay. A lot of bastards.
00:15:12
Speaker
Very specific color choice, yeah. No, it's always really fascinating. Which, do you notice that as well when you're like, if you're conserving something that you can see, I mean, you were already saying with the last episode you mentioned with the Mummy case, that there was a lot of stuff happened to it in the eighties and that, you know, was horrendous, like the styrofoam and things, but do you also see like differences in, in what's the word, like fashions, I guess, of that time? So they'll like restore it to look more like what they think it should look like or a people usually pretty good at trying to keep to the original. Well,
00:15:46
Speaker
it Again, it's so dependent on the object. I've seen some really good repairs from like, you know, early early 20th century or something. But then there's other ones, there was a ship model. And again, this bright coral came up, they decided to paint the ship bright coral and turquoise. And I was like, that's a choice somebody made, probably in the 80s. It was striking. It was certainly striking. This is not the color that they would have intended for this ship model that was made in like 1670. Like this is not this is not it.
00:16:22
Speaker
um So yeah, so it's really, interesting like observation on like what every conservator is like and whether they've changed their their habits or not like if you work in one museum for a long time you can kind of see a pattern of like how the previous conservators worked on things and so you're like oh this is clearly so-and-so's work or this is so-and-so's work because you can tell like a certain style. So I'm guessing that I have a certain style, I don't know what it is. but Yeah, they've left their mark on it. Yeah, yeah. Because I mean, basically, yeah, because you're I mean, you're changing it. So it's going to be something. And like, you can try to be as precise as possible. But there's always going to be something of you left.
00:17:06
Speaker
It'd be a nightmare if you messed it up. It was like that painting. I was just thinking the painting of Jesus. Yeah. Oh my God, I love it. No one will notice. No one will notice. It literally looks like a thumb. Like a potato. Yeah. Oh, wow. Chilly, was that your stomach? Oh, sorry. OK, how about we take a break and order from Hobbit DoorDash? Oh, yes, please. I skipped 11s. Oh, can you order some leavener's bread?
00:17:37
Speaker
I think so. Jess, do you want in? Yes, please. OK, guys, we'll be right back. Hello and welcome back to And My Trial. Now we're all fed. We can jump right into it.
00:17:50
Speaker
I'm already a bit peckish again, but fine, let's continue. So, Jess, as our expert, what do you think we should do here with this particular situation?
Ethics of Conserving Cursed Artifacts
00:18:02
Speaker
Which, just a reminder to everyone, we have this picture, this cursed painting of Dorian Dre, the well-known cousin of Dorian Dre. also, just a bit of background brown to the listeners, the reason why we did this switch around is because when we were planning the episode, I could not for the life of me say the words Dorian Grey. I kept saying, Dorian Grey, and we decided, screw it, it's fate. We're going to keep that in the episode. Yep. So it is forevermore known as Dorian Grey, the second cousin of Dorian Grey. So first question, how do we deal with this painting of Dorian Grey?
00:18:43
Speaker
Well, I have a follow-up question. Are we assuming that Dorian Dre is still living? Because, I mean, as we are all familiar with Dorian Gray, the painting returned back to Dorian looking pretty and youthful and Dorian himself died. So then since this painting is falling apart, do we assume that Goryan is still with us? And therefore, what does he say about it? I think so. Because he doesn't die, he's sort of immortal. Yeah, so he should just be pretty and leaping around somewhere.
00:19:21
Speaker
Ben Barnes. It's Ben Barnes. Oh my God. Oh yeah no. Oh no. What a But I also have another question. Okay. Should we even like touch this painting since it's connected to a person, a soul? Especially if he's potentially still alive. And potentially Ben Barnes. Right. I mean, is that the secret of Ben Barnes? Is he an immortal?
00:19:51
Speaker
painting bound man. ah really Well, I will say that the painting got into your hands somehow. So I think there has to be some ability to move it or store it or something until you can decide what to do with it. So I think setting it up in an environment that will keep it sort of happy, you know, temperature, humidity,
00:20:19
Speaker
that would be exceedingly acceptable. And then past that, I would start looking for Goryan and what he's up to. If there's next upkin, if there was a will involved, maybe he, I don't know, I have no idea what would have happened to Goryan with his painting still being rose.
00:20:37
Speaker
so But also, if if the painting is, as you say, so we're going on the assumption that Goryen is still alive because the painting looks so horrible and ravaged. So Goryen must be alive and kicking, living the life of a libertine somewhere. But that means that actually, if we were to try and conserve this painting, that could be extremely detrimental to Goryen, because if we try and make the painting look, or like if we hang on and let me remind myself of but restore, if we restore the painting and do it as close as possible to the original appearance, which is what I just learned this word means from Jess, compared to preserving it, which is preventing or slowing down the deterioration. Like surely and even in both cases, you'd then be affecting Gory and himself. Right. So yes if we were to
00:21:30
Speaker
Gregorian nearby and say, like, test some sort of adhesive. Like, let's say, I don't know if the paint is coming off or, you know, how, like, is the paint. I guess here's the question. Is the surface of the painting gross or is it just the subject that looks gross? Cause if the paint is fine and it's just the subject that looks gross, then it shouldn't need anything anyway.
00:21:58
Speaker
And then I think it was both. OK, so if the paint's coming off, then we could try re-adhering some of the paint with a sort of neutral adhesive and see if that does anything to go in.
00:22:14
Speaker
see if he wants it done. I mean, who knows? Maybe there's like flakes of maybe his face. He's got dry skin now. I don't know. Maybe his hair will start falling out or something. Yeah. yeah it'sling It's kind of he's desiccated almost, isn't he? He's got like his skin or his oil painting is peeling away. And yeah, so he's festering. Does he want us to touch it? Maybe it's good for him. Yeah.
00:22:41
Speaker
I mean, I think it would take some testing and then a lot of conversation. Which is an interesting point, though, as well, because if we talked about this earlier, whether this is actually an object or if it is a person and human
Conservation Ethics of Human Remains
00:22:56
Speaker
remains. And I remember having a lecture about this at some point in uni talking about, for example, like if you have a pair of earrings made from human hair, is that an object or is that human remains?
00:23:09
Speaker
And like, how do you therefore deal with them accordingly? And I guess the same could be said of this, like it's technically soul bound to a person. So, yeah I mean, I mean, for example, Jess, you have worked with, and so the sort of philosophy around that is also something really interesting because they are essentially human, they are human remains. So, I mean, how, how is that kind of dealt with in terms of sort of ethical considerations? I think it's sort of culture dependent and Something can be both an object and human remains because really at the end of the day, are if we look at say human hair or skeletal remains, there yeah it's sort of objecty. There isn't really life left in it. I think this painting is a sort of different case with a
00:23:58
Speaker
potentially living soul or partial soul or I don't know if it's like a kind of Horcrux or something, bringing back to Harry Potter. We had to get it in this episode. But if you think of like the Memento Mori jewelry back in the what was that late 19th century, early 20th with human hair art and baby teeth jewelry. I've seen those recently.
00:24:26
Speaker
Very interesting. lovely Yeah. You can get baby teeth set into like rings and things, you know, it's, it's an object and it was meant to, you know, preserve the memory of something or somebody, but it's also, you know, their, you know, earthly remains as it were. And so if we're talking about something like that, then, you know, maintaining it and preserving it and,
00:24:52
Speaker
learning about it is also preserving the memory of the person that you were trying to remember. So you're perpetuating that desire that caused its creation. So I think that's really like, what would the deceased have wanted or what would the deceased's relatives have wanted? And that's how generally I treat human remains.
00:25:18
Speaker
Basically, sometimes I even just talk to them and say, what do you want? What do you need? How can I help you? What would you do if they talked back to you out of curiosity? What would you do if the mummy said, I'm going to be like, well, actually, I've got this ache in my shoulder. And if you could like re-do those joints. It makes me think of a book series by Vivian Shaw. And it's the Greta Helsing series. And I think I talked about this in the vampire episode.
00:25:45
Speaker
yeah I think in the second and the third book, she has to treat mummies that have like reanimated and like reawoken for some reason. But like little bones have fallen out or you know degraded or something. So she's like starting to 3D print new bones for them to like put in these new pieces so that they can wander around and do their thing and slip their luck. They do that with like turtles and stuff, right? like They 3D print new parts of their shell so that they can continue to make all that kind of thing.
00:26:15
Speaker
So I think, I mean, it's it's cute in the books because the the mummies are like there and they're like, what is happening? I was in a very hot climate and now it's raining. Can you explain this to me? But I think it's really nice of like, Oh, well we'll just, you know, 3d print you something and that will make you feel better. And so I, you know, treat human remains similarly of like, how can I make you feel better in your final resting place, whatever that might be and whatever but that might look like.
00:26:43
Speaker
I suppose is this Dorian's final resting place though? Exactly, because if he's still alive then that sort of leaves us in a bit of a quandary. So also ah in the Dorian Gray book the whole point is that Dorian can't take it anymore at the end, like he's just so overwhelmed by the curse and everything like that and so he destroys the picture himself. But presumably because we've got the painting, Dorian doesn't really care about it that much.
00:27:08
Speaker
Or you've picked it up somewhere. Or I'm just like, what's up somewhere? And he's like, where's my painting? So I guess probably the morally right thing to do would indeed be to find Gorian and A, ask if he actually wants the painting.
The Fate of Dorian Gray's Cousin's Painting
00:27:28
Speaker
And then B, yeah, C, whether he wants it preserved. Yeah, and how he wants it preserved. That would do it to him and stuff. Yeah. Well,
00:27:39
Speaker
Yeah, but like, will it show on the his face if we stop, like... If we start adding... If we start adding... Will he suddenly have a turtle shell foodie printed, like, on his face? Which is... That happened, so Terry Pratchett reference.
00:27:56
Speaker
Oh, here we go. ah sad In the truth, you have Otto van Rijke, who's the photographer at The Times, which is the newspaper, but he's a vampire. And this is ah using these old fashioned cameras with like the extremely bright fresh flashlight. And it's because he's a vampire. Every time he's got bright light on him, he bursts into like, he doesn't burst into flame, but he like,
00:28:20
Speaker
burst into a cloud of dust. So if he takes a particularly bright picture, he'll suddenly like just become a cloud of dust and settle down. And then you have to add a drop of blood to like reanimate him. But sometimes like at one point he's ah brushed up into a dustpan because they have to go and find the blood and then they put a bit of blood on and then he's got like the pattern of the carpet on his trousers because they got a bit of the trouser du like carpet dust in there with him as well. Anyway, that's not really related, but I had to get a Terry Prussia reference in somewhere.
00:28:50
Speaker
Obviously, exactly. but But also, like you were talking before about the fact that, you know, all the different ways of how to let an object age, like continue to age after it's been conserved, because that's the thing technically, even if he says, okay, yeah fine, go ahead, preserve it, restore it, whatever, well, not restore it, maybe, but like, preserve it, like, we could say, okay, we won't restore it, because that might like, make him degrade more, but we could preserve it. But then that will also mean that it doesn't continue to age. So does that mean he will then start to age? But like, at a normal rate? I mean, I understood the cursed painting bit as, you know, the more bad things he does, the more it shows on the painting. And so it's not really
00:29:38
Speaker
dependent on its environment, it's dependent on him. And so we could say like, come on, dude, clean it up. Let's go. Like, be a better person. Which, I mean, based on this painting. Right. So then it's like, oh, do we want to meet this guy?
00:29:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's maybe we'll send out one of the interns to go and meet this guy. Maybe what we could do as a kind of, you know, a gesture of kindness and the fact that somehow we have his painting. Is his is the frame connected to the painting? Because the frame is extremely dilapidated and it's crumbling and splintered and stuff. So we could replace his frame. Does that change the the interpretation of the painting or anything like that from an art conservation perspective?
00:30:30
Speaker
Typically, no, I was actually just talking with a colleague today about frames and how nobody cares about frames as long as they look nice. and So I'm guessing that the frame is not related to the magic tying his soul to the painting. I could be entirely wrong, but I would imagine.
00:30:52
Speaker
And then just, yeah I mean, if you're going to keep it in a dark room because no one wants to look at it, then, you know, having the fame fall apart is really not the end of the world. Because again, not very many people care about frames. Yeah, there you go. Well, we can then in a gesture of goodwill, we can at least conserve the frame maybe. Do you think that's something you'd be able to help us with? Oh, yes, definitely. Excellent.
00:31:16
Speaker
Okay. I think that's pretty good. So what we're going to do is we're going to try and track down Gorian. Yeah. Probably, I don't know, find his last known address. Maybe there's something on the back of the painting. Yeah. We're going to have a look. We're going to have a look. I'm sure the wizards might know, but they probably put it there in the first place. Yeah. Um, and then some sort of tracking spell.
00:31:36
Speaker
I was about to say eight maybe it's got a Trekkie spell on it, yeah. Hopefully they don't do a reverse curse spell because then that's the end of Gregorian. Yeah, so we'll do that and then we'll talk to him about what he wants to do with the painting. Yeah. If he doesn't want it, we could always try and keep it in a nice area, hidden away in a good temperature. And we can try and research it at least, you know, do the research side of things because that shouldn't affect the actual painting.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah. We could get a little bibliography for that object. Yeah. Life, life, has been life biography. I feel like this could be a book with Dortnick. He could actually publish a book about his life. Yeah.
00:32:16
Speaker
yeah yeah wasca oiled oscar well
00:32:24
Speaker
depending goodness may oscar wild So before we go Jess, do you have anything you'd like to share with our listeners? Perhaps you've got some exciting projects that are coming up in or any future plans?
00:32:39
Speaker
I'm currently just keeping an eye out for new opportunities. So if anybody has anything to conserve, let me know. And then there's a Korean cultural heritage conservation workshop in Korea next year that I was accepted to.
Future Conservation Projects and Closing
00:32:51
Speaker
Very exciting. um So I'm looking forward to that. That's very cool. That's very exciting.
00:32:56
Speaker
Oh, very nice. yeah Well, thank you so much for coming to talk to us yet again. So yes, if you'd like to hear ah more from Jess, either about art conservation or about her work as a forensic anthropologist and archaeologist looking at teeth, you can listen in into our vampires episode, which is episodes 17 and 18. So do join us for that.
00:33:17
Speaker
And shameless self-plug, if you want to listen to more from Jess talking about mummies specifically, you can also listen to episode 23 of Tea Break Time Travel, which is another show on the Archaeology Podcast Network, happens to be hosted by myself. Are you promoting another show with another show? What? Me? No. Hey, we're a network. We've got to support each other. We've got to support each other, especially if we are me.
00:33:48
Speaker
And I'm on it. I feel important. No, that's true. I'll listen to it just for you, Jess. This is exciting. It is called the 1999 classic featuring Brendan Fraser. So I mean, the title itself is enough to listen to. But that is about it for this episode of at My Trial. We hope that you enjoyed this quest. Thank you so much, Jess, for helping out with this particular problem. It was really great to have you join us. And we've definitely learned a lot about yet another of your specializations.
00:34:16
Speaker
Thanks for having me. I love getting pulled into these adventures with you too. We'll think of another one. We'll get you involved somehow if you wish.
00:34:26
Speaker
She's really good at knitting. yeah yeah we'll do it again we have ah We'll be in touch. Anyway, in the meantime, we are always looking out for new episode ideas. So as always, if you have any new suggestions, do get in contact via email or social media. All contact info can be found in the show notes. And don't forget to follow all of the other amazing shows that are part of the Archaeology Podcast Network. And if you want to support us even further and help to let us continue to make amazing free content for everyone,
00:34:55
Speaker
You can support us by becoming a member, so check out the APN website for more information on that. Ooh, Tilly. What's that? What's what? That thing glinting behind those dusty books. It looks so shiny, so magical. Uh, no, Ash, no, stop it. Don't touch it. We don't know what it is. Not yet, at least.
00:35:22
Speaker
This episode was produced by Chris Webster from his ah RV traveling the United States, Tristan Boyle in Scotland, DigTech LLC, Culturo Media, and the Archaeology Podcast Network, and was edited by Rachel Rodin. This has been a presentation of the Archaeology Podcast Network. Visit us on the web for show notes and other podcasts at www.archpodnet.com. Contact us at chris at archaeologypodcastnetwork.com.