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I Think You Should... Cozy Core Games
2 Playsin 7 minutes
In this first installment of the I Think You Should... podcast, Trevor and Bea discuss the popularity and wide range of "cozy core" games, as well as what actually makes a game "cozy."
You can support us on Patreon! Just search for I Think You Should... on Patreon.com! You can also send questions or thoughts to ithinkyoushouldpod@gmail.com!
Transcript
Introduction to 'I Think You Should' Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hey everybody, this is Trevor, also TH from the I Think You Should podcast, the podcast that you're about to listen to. ah This actually started out as a solo project that I wanted to find people to partner with, but as you'll see from this first episode and the ongoing ones from this season, ah my friend B and I, as my co-host, it just was too perfect a combo. were having too much fun, so we decided to stick with it. That's how you got the I Think You Should pod that you're about to hear.
00:00:25
Speaker
If you want to reach out to us with topics, offers to be on an episode to talk about something you're interested in or you think more people should know about, please email us at Ithinkyoushouldpod at gmail.com.
00:00:37
Speaker
Like I said earlier, this is a season, so we recorded a number of episodes that we'll be releasing over the next few weeks. It started in the fall of 2025, and you'll get a chance to hear our thoughts on a bunch of different things. So, thanks. Enjoy.
00:00:59
Speaker
All
00:01:10
Speaker
right, welcome to the TH
Naming Origins and Genre Norms
00:01:12
Speaker
Pod. I'm Trevor TH Paul. Nobody actually calls me TH. I had to use that name because it's the law if you write fantasy or science fiction novels that you abbreviate your name with initials.
00:01:23
Speaker
I've got Bea, my very dear friend, here as a guest.
Exploring CozyCore and Gaming Fanbases
00:01:27
Speaker
Hi, Bea. Hello. i And we're going to be talking CozyCore games ah and possibly if this becomes a two-parter, we'll tack on survival.
00:01:37
Speaker
ah What did I say? Survival crafting? Is that what we're calling it? Survival crafting. Yeah, yeah. The kids just say Minecraft, but I never played Minecraft. Oh, I did. All of my very bad video game takes are going to come out through these podcasts, I've decided, because I'm told by... I should mention, I'm a writer and a teacher, and I have high school students, and they constantly get mad at me for my bad taste in video games.
00:01:59
Speaker
So I wasn't excited about Silksong, and they got very upset. pete Anyway. Listen, people love it, I guess. i've Okay. that We were going start with the usual first question, which is like something that you're playing, reading, watching, or listening to right now that you think is cool. But I'm going to pose this question to you first. Are there worse video game fans than Undertale or Hollow Knight fans?
00:02:23
Speaker
Worse? Ooh. Yeah. Like more rabid and get defensive if you don't like their stuff. I mean, there there is a sect of Stardew Valley players that get like pretty ticked off. o But I will say that there are more Stardew Valley players that are like, you just can't hang. You know, like yeah you don't get it. But let's see. Worse, I mean, I would say a lot of the FPS players Oh yeah, I guess. Clans are pretty terrible. So I would say like anybody who's like COD or like I would even go so far as like if they're playing one of the more competitive games, like if they're like a league person, if they're, I don't know, like a CSGO person or like whatever, like is the hot moment game, you know, like when Overwatch was super popular, a lot their their player base was really toxic. Rocket League. Rocket League had some of that. Yeah, but I would say like you expect that from like the FIFA player, but you don't really expect the rabid attack of an Undertale fan. That game is allegedly super cozy. I don't get the hype around it, sorry, but just... Okay, well, let's go with... <unk>ll We'll talk about the
Current Pop Culture and Media Consumption
00:03:41
Speaker
cozy thing and come back to Undertale. Because that's... a what's We'll go with ah something you're playing, watching, listening to. I'm going to avoid the game that I just finished last night because if we do survival crafting, it will come up because it is in that genre. But have you seen the Alien Earth series?
00:03:57
Speaker
I haven't. It's a little bit too scary for me. It's it's not as scary as I thought it was going to be. Although the latest episode was like basically a reshooting. By this point that this recording episode five has been out and episode five was essentially the film Alien redone. It looks really cool. Like I've seen some some snippets and I'm like, I could probably sit and watch this by myself where re-jumping or hiding behind my fingers is totally cool and fine. Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:26
Speaker
um I will say that the thing that I like the most about it is the thing that like, first of all, we're talking about bad fans, I think like alien fans are also some of the worst and not yeah because they're like toxic in the sense of like, they're like demanding you watch their thing, but they clamor for a new, you know, film or series. And then they immediately find fault with everything that gets done. I mean, see all sci-fi fans, right? see Yeah. Star Wars, see Star Trek, see like any of the sci-fi people that are like, this isn't what I meant. Well, and I can get behind some of that. What I can't get behind is in the case of Alien, like, you can't make Alien and Aliens again. i mean, I guess you could, but, like, nobody, it won't be... be awful.
00:05:05
Speaker
It won't be as good because those films were based around sort of the that fact that you hadn't done that yet. And so, like, what they've done in this show that I think people have started to figure out that is very clever is it's the xenomorph, you know, the main alien is not really the focus of the show.
00:05:21
Speaker
okay. to give you the very basic gist and the, you know, an audience without spoiling anything. The setup is that they take terminally ill kids, you know, like preteens, teens, and transfer their consciousness into a synthetic body so that they can live.
00:05:35
Speaker
Seems fine. Yeah.
Origins and Evolution of the Podcast
00:05:37
Speaker
It's definitely not, nothing nefarious is ever going to happen with that. And all sci-fi has taught us nothing bad will come of this. Yeah. Um, but that's like really the setup and kind of the thing the show is leaning on the most.
00:05:47
Speaker
Um, And I think it's really good, but it is, it is definitely like, it's not just about the aliens, to which I would say, how could it be? We've done that. We already did those. Yeah. It's like, that's not the real terror here. Right. And never is. So what's something you've got that you're playing, watching or um Well, right now, watching I'm watching the new Dimension 20 season, which is Cloudflare And that is, it's a like steampunk Sky Pirate stuff. And it's genuinely really, really good. But I am a Brennan Lee Mulligan stan. I was going to say, is that a Brennan? Yes, it is. It is an intrepid hero season. So it's the core group with Brennan at the helm and it is delightful. And I would say that it is the most like when you watch their stuff, which I could wax poetic about this for hours, but like when you watch Dimension 20, it's like sitting at a real table of D&D players, I think. Yeah. And this is the most real table I've seen in a while that like I've had multiple people in my own D&D group text me.
00:06:53
Speaker
and be like, that's oh, this is us. yeah They did it right. yeah This is shenanigans at the highest level. so You want to know the funniest thing about how I discovered Brennan? Because my sister was all in on the... There a game show, right? That they do...
00:07:06
Speaker
um that he's been on on dropout yeah yeah yeah yeah so he was on that i didn't know about that i didn't know about great i didn't know about dimension 20 you'll ever spend i've never watched dimension 20 i know of it i i started chasing down neil newbon doing dnd shows because i love him as a person and also his performance obviously as a starian if anybody's played bg polter's gate 3 he's incredible um And I just, he's a delightful human being. And they did an episode where Brennan was one of the players at the table.
00:07:34
Speaker
And he just killed me. He was so funny. He's really good. Like, he has some serious comedic chops. ah Yeah, genuinely one of the funniest people ever, but also, like, his brain is going at 140 miles an hour all the time, and and I think it's fascinating, to be honest. Yeah, I really want I'm going to have to watch him DM something to see him in action with that. You should, and, like, Dimension 20 is way easier to digest than, like, Critical Role is. And, again, I'm also a Critical Role fan, but... dimension 20 they run like very limited seasons between like 10 15 20 episodes like maximum okay the episodes are only a couple hours long okay okay so we're not talking a five hour dnd session correct okay yeah 100 and like they they like this podcast they pre-shoot everything so then that way yeah they only ran one season live and it was it felt live yeah
00:08:32
Speaker
And like, that's hard to do. I mean, we're going to get into this. I guess we we could get into it now, but you and I met through the Penny Arcade, ah you know, PAX live shows, specifically PAX East and through their Twitch and, you know, various channels and friends. And we've seen the live games. Like we've gone to those live shows.
00:08:50
Speaker
They are different. Like they, they are much more, I think of a performance than, I mean, there is still a game going on. And if, like you were saying before, if you have the right table, it feels like a game.
00:09:01
Speaker
But I think of Mike Krahulik running some of those games where he just came up with a very fun gimmick. yeah, Wizard Unknown and Wizard Snow. Wizard of the Wizard of the Snow is the one that immediately comes to mind, which was his take on, obviously, Player Unknown's Battlegrounds, but as a D&D experience.
00:09:18
Speaker
Those aren't the same. Live is not the same for those who like D&D. It's a different thing. But I did that's i like that they pre-recorded. That definitely... They also like, yeah, they edit it down. No, like they, yeah they do it down. So then that way, like if the game is five hours long, you're not watching a five hour, like uncut version of them sitting at the table, just like futzing around, you know, like they, they they are editing it down to be like, okay, let's just, we'll, we'll move on. You know, they understand that they have a limited amount of time that people will pay attention to them. So I really like that.
00:09:53
Speaker
No, that's awesome. So, mentioned the idea that like we met through PAX and PAX East, which if people don't know, if massive gaming convention, is it it's probably still the biggest one going in the US at least.
00:10:05
Speaker
i and I think on the East Coast for sure. i don't know about West Coast conventions. That's true. There are a few big conventions they can compete with over there. But um when I decided i was going to do this podcast, which, you know, I thought it was a good way to get me, you know, working in a creative way when I can't always write.
00:10:21
Speaker
ah And I went looking for people to ask about specific subjects and I specifically wanted the podcast. Originally I wanted to call it, I think you should read, you know, is a whatever that is that Nathan for you show, which I've never seen. Yeah.
00:10:34
Speaker
yeah But I didn't want to just do books. So I was like, well, I can't just do 17 different series. I think you should watch. I think you should hear, i think you should play. um But I wanted things people did that I didn't know as much about. Maybe people should know about. And you have always been in my mind, the cozy core gaming aficionado expert.
00:10:52
Speaker
I don't know how to say it. Well, thank how are you. going to it um So the first thing, and we talked about this before off mic, was I was trying to figure out how you define what a cozy
Defining CozyCore Games
00:11:02
Speaker
core game is. So how would you define a cozy core game? Because I was actually struggling to think of how to describe it i think I think a cozy core game is a game that makes you feel like you are wrapped in a blanket on a cold day with like a hot drink
00:11:24
Speaker
and it there it's raining and you just feel at ease and super calm and just very zenned out like we all have high stress lives jobs whatever and it's the game that just lets you shut that all off for a while and just kind of like you can like snuggle down into the game and that can be any cozy game what whatever you find is the coziest for you that's the cozy core game but I think a lot of people have started defining it as like the farming sims which is yeah and incorrect as far as I'm concerned okay that's what I wanted to get at because I think you mentioned Stardew Valley earlier and I guess that's it is my yeah it's it's my holy grail game Yeah, well I mean, that's kind of the er, cozy core game that people sort of define it by, it seems like, or they everybody compares it to it, right? What's what's wild is that Stardew Valley is not cozy. like i was This is what I was getting at. I wanted to know. is Does that actually meet the criteria? Yeah.
00:12:27
Speaker
Eventually, yes. Your first playthrough, absolutely not. Because like what Stardew Valley does that um other games, or what Stardew Valley does not do that other games do is that they don't really tell you how to do anything.
00:12:44
Speaker
So you get dropped into Stardew Valley And handed a bunch of things all at once. And then they leave you alone.
00:12:56
Speaker
So this is what we should get into because I think we've talked about this previously. i played Stardew Valley. It did not take for me. For the exact reason you just described. So I was like, oh, it's a very cozy, chill game. I'm going to drop in.
00:13:11
Speaker
i'm going to grow some beets. And then maybe like raise a a cow or something and go and then like because there's that uh cycle of seasons and days and then people to interact with and like things you can miss the second i missed something i was like wait the what the fuck no we this is not acceptable go back now i'm stressed because i missed this thing like that's bullshit um and so i I bounced off it a little bit because of that, but that wasn't me. Apparently that was design. I didn't miss something that way. You didn't know. Cause you are not the only person i know who like loves a chill game, but definitely bounced off of Stardew just because it is so overwhelming.
00:13:57
Speaker
when you first start that it pulls your attention in too many different directions and there's too much to track and you don't want to miss things but you are going to miss things and depending on your gameplay style It's going to be the opposite of cozy. You're just going to be stressed the whole time. But then once you play through it and you start another farm or you get to like year two, then you're chill about it. So like at first, not cozy.
00:14:31
Speaker
Right. But then it gets cozy as you get into kind of a rhythm of playing. And I guess we should mention like the the kind of way that these games, because I was going to bring up Graveyard Keeper, which is another one. Yeah, we'll talk we'll talk about why that one's bad. Don't worry, we'll get to that one. um I agree with you, but it took me longer to get there.
00:14:48
Speaker
ah They usually drop you into a world, give you a farm, a house, ah something in a town or adjacent to a town, and it's sort of like from there you progress, whatever that means for you. And the thing that I think, if i correct me if I'm wrong, but the thing about Stardew Valley that I thought was interesting was what you'd consider progressing can vary wildly.
00:15:09
Speaker
you can engage with whatever you want to engage with or not. Yeah, that's exactly it. And like this comes from the Harvest Moon... Harvest Moon's are the one i was trying to think of. umbrella, right. So like Harvest Moon was kind of like the the grandfather of the games that that are now considered quote unquote cozy. And it's what started like the, you leave your big city life to go to a farm that your your dead grandfather left you. And you know, like you have to but bring it back and make money. And oh yeah, you have to save the town and then you have to marry somebody from the town. And it's just like,
00:15:47
Speaker
it's not linear right and i think that's really overwhelming to a lot of people because it's like you can do whatever you want and it's like well now i have too many choices yep that's that was part of the thing that got me and so you mentioned we mentioned stardew we've mentioned uh what'd you just say that last harvest moon thank you harvest moon those were on like nintendo like so those are old games and then animal crossing is the other one that kind of falls in there too that gets tossed in that group or is that its own thing do you think i would say animal crossing is it's is it it is cozy it is under the cozy umbrella but it's not a farm sim right like it's definitely its own thing and of course animal crossing has a long history well is it the longest running of those besides harvest moon
00:16:34
Speaker
i would I would probably say so, yes. Because I mean like i didn't play... So like I didn't grow up playing video games, so I didn't play the early Animal Crossings until much later. so oh I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah. So like i wasn't I was not allowed to play video games as a kid. So this I didn't come into gaming until I was well into my 30s. So now...
00:16:54
Speaker
I'm going back and playing a lot of these older games, but Animal Crossing New Horizons is the one that came out on the Switch. That's right. And it came out like the day everybody locked down for COVID.
00:17:06
Speaker
Well, there you go. so That's what you do. It boomed. Yeah. So like there were a lot of people that were obviously anticipating it because when they announced the Switch, they were like, where's the new Animal Crossing game? And then it came out. Yeah. Yeah. Like March 20th. Right. And everybody was like, well, I can't leave the house for the next.
00:17:23
Speaker
Well, we thought two weeks, but then it turned out to be two years. so sweet summer children. We were so naive. So naive. But like, you know, like Animal Crossing, I think, is its own thing. And I would say it is even more relaxing. Like Animal Crossing is definitely the coziest thing.
00:17:43
Speaker
Well, because is there anything in that that you can, like, miss, essentially, just by not engaging at the right moment? Because that's what always threw me off with You can start time travel. like Okay, well, that solves everything. Jeez. Okay, now I know that there are going to be some purists that are like, you can't time travel in Animal Crossing. That's cheating. Now, I was one of those people for the first, i don't know, two years. And then I decided that I wanted to see what the hype was. And now I'll never go back. so Okay, yeah.
00:18:10
Speaker
i mean i would Yes, you can miss stuff, but you can time travel and experience it that' it. That feels like a quality of life feature. If you want to engage with it, you don't have to miss stuff and worry about it. If you don't want to engage with it because you're a purist, that's fine.
00:18:23
Speaker
Yeah. And you can fast forward too. So if you're like, I want to experience Christmas now, you can. Right. And so I think with these games, like we'll talk about the fandom, particularly for Stardew Valley at some point. because that's that's that's I did not know that was a rabid fan base, and now I have a lot of questions. um We're very serious about how much we love Stardew Valley. But like these games, when they're done well, I know I said I bounced off it because of the um the overwhelming choice and the fear of like doing the wrong thing or missing a thing.
Game Critiques and Relaxation Preferences
00:18:53
Speaker
But there is like a fun element of figuring out how to charm a certain member of the village that you couldn't get through to before or how to unlock a new ah location or thing to do.
00:19:10
Speaker
I'm curious because I have my reason why I think graveyard keeper doesn't work. And this is not an attempt to slander graveyard keeper, but I'm going to anyway. Everybody has a preference. Yeah. Everyone has a preference. So the the concept of that, that I liked was it had a little element of funny horror to it where it's like, Hey, instead of a farm, you're a grave digger and people bring their dead bodies and you bury them. And despite the fact that this sounds very morbid, it's actually done very adorably now.
00:19:35
Speaker
The problem I had with that game is that at a very specific point, I don't even know if it's a specific point, but I tried to play the thing through twice and twice at the same spot. I got stuck with feeling like I either needed to grind incredibly and get nothing for it or...
00:19:49
Speaker
it was utterly unclear what the next progression was or how or why. And there wasn't anything compelling about just, say, hanging out at the house and like upgrading the house or the graveyard of the church or any of that. Whereas in Stardew, I do feel like even if I didn't pursue something in the game, yeah i could have just hung out at my farm and updated my farm and that would have felt...
00:20:14
Speaker
good there are people who do that like do like challenges where it's like uh i'm only doing farm stuff i'm not doing relationship stuff i'm not going to the mines i'm not doing any of that and it's like good for you yeah but was that also the issue you had with graveyard keeper or was it more just the aesthetic or story i don't i for me it was just the like i don't understand what this game wants me to also this game has decided to take away the fun and therefore i'm out i think it i think it was that because like i graveyard keeper was on my steam wishlist as soon as it was able to be wishlisted i was so stoked for that game because obviously i love stardew and if you're gonna give me stardew that's also kind of goth i'm gonna love it like oh yeah You're going to give me the opportunity to like bury bodies instead of turnip seeds. I'm in. So like I was really stoked on it. I played it day one and I know since then there have been a lot of updates. We're talking like no man's sky level updates, right? Oh, yeah. So like they released the game, I played it and I bounced so hard off of it, I got a concussion from it. And yet my best friend played tons of it and just really loved it. So we're very similar, but I guess our brains just didn't feel the same about the game. I found it extremely grindy in a not rewarding way. Yeah. I found, see the again, the bounce off with Stardew for me was not grindy. It was the combination of so many things to do and also, oh my God, i'm missing things and that feels bad. Right.
00:21:46
Speaker
it was 100% grindy with Graveyard Keeper. And I felt like it wasn't supposed to be. It was almost, i kept thinking I was doing something wrong. And I don't think that there's anything cozy about a game that makes you feel bad for playing it the way you're playing it. You also spend so much time walking around in that game. You were losing everything.
00:22:08
Speaker
hours of game time walking back and forth to the village yeah before you on I mean spoilers before you unlock the underground tunnel right you spent so much damn time of that game going back and forth and back and forth I'm like this is just wasting a bunch of frigging time Yeah, and and it it doesn't have a graphic appearance to it that is, it's sprites. It's not like it's a stunning experience to walk the road from your house to the town. Like, there's nothing aesthetically pleasing about it. nothing to do on the way. So it's literally just like I'm walking down a dirt road. It's like, I can do this for free in my real life. So I don't...
00:22:41
Speaker
And I choose not to. Yeah. I just like, i wanted something. And there's like a couple, there's another game that did something similar recently that I was like, I was really looking forward to this game and I did not enjoy it nearly as much as I wanted to because it was so grindy without real true reward for it.
00:23:01
Speaker
Right. I don't mind if the game is grindy. If I have to go out every single day and chop down 40 trees so that I can do something cool, I'll do it. Right. Well, have the time I spend in, in when I play Icarus again, that'll be on on a further episode, but like, yeah I spend most of the time gathering materials, but I do it so that I can build cool shit.
00:23:19
Speaker
Right. I mean, I think one of the things you said earlier, I think, is the actual reason why defining something as cozy core is harder to do, which is because it depends on whatever takes you out of the stress. Like the thing you made me think of is, you know, my wife watched me play Overwatch and now Marvel Rivals and and even Call of Duty. I used to play a bit.
00:23:43
Speaker
And she was like, this is so like frenetic and intense and like you're constantly doing stuff like how is this relaxing? And I'm like, well, in a weird way, because as you know, I'm big on like I play sports. It's a kind of competitive play that I enjoy. Like I enjoy competition, whether I do well or not. And then going back and thinking about what to do differently next time. That isn't the same thing as like you said, wrapping in a blanket, having a hot drink. But it is a kind of like relaxation that takes you out of whatever the stressors are. It's cozy in your brain. Yeah, it's whatever is sort of acting as a way to pull you away from the things that are bothering you. Right. And like, there are people that we know, we have a mutual friend who like, one of his favorite things to do is to put on a VR headset and play Tetris at like, light speed. And that to him is relaxing. And I'm like, i
00:24:30
Speaker
love watching you do this but I would have a panic attack if I was trying to play this game we have played games with said friend and his ability to break a game over his knee yeah is unprecedented and is amazing to watch but also I'm just baffled by it some people have that you know in them Yeah. So like, I think there's different definitions of like, hey, what's cozy to you? Like some people think like cooking mama or God forbid overcooked is like cozy. Right. Right. And like, I'm like that, that ends friendships to me. so like, it absolutely does. So you're like, that's not cozy. That's just me yelling. Like, I don't want to do that. So it's just really, i think cozy has,
00:25:10
Speaker
become one of those buzzwords it's very much like ah synergy and you're like do you know what that word actually means no but it sounds good they slap cozy on like a game that is either half finished or they were like ah yes this is just literally a clone of animal crossing right or stardew or this and i'm like yes there are times that you can do that but you have to have some kind of originality with it well like are you familiar with the game tunic I am familiar. I didn't play it because it's roguelike, right? Well, exactly. But you know what happened with that is people saw the cute little fox. And if you're me, you bought the game because of the cute little fox because that's my favorite animal. But also, I wasn't under the impression that it was going to be anything but a kind of roguelike because, you know, I watched the trailers and went into the dev info to know what I was buying. It just looked like an adventure game. you Right, but there were some people who were actually upset buying it in some of the reviews because they thought it was going to be more Zelda-y or like lower.
00:26:06
Speaker
like I just wanted to run around with my cute fox and do adventures. It's like, well, sure, but that just because it has the aesthetic, maybe... Yes.
00:26:17
Speaker
ah something like that which in many cases is the charm of some of those games when they kind of you know there are games that really surprised you that are like oh i would have never picked out this game because of the art style right but now i actually really love it yeah and i have like and there are games that i'm like this doesn't seem cozy but then you know you look down at a watch or you look at your clock and it's six hours later and you're like oh well i guess it was cozy because i haven't moved in a while and i don't feel bad about it right right exactly you're like i haven't been screaming in my head for a really long time congratulations
00:26:52
Speaker
so So what's the Stardew fandom...
Stardew Valley: Fanbase and Development Insights
00:26:55
Speaker
Spill the tea on the Stardew fandom intensity. I would say overall, the Stardew fandom is a great group of people because we all have a common goal, which is promoting the hell out of this $15 game that was made by one person. One guy, which I think the thing... Okay, i I have to know... he He's just continued to make that game and iterate on it. Has he made anything else? Oh boy, Trevor, you don't know the lore and I'm so excited that you asked. Tell me because this is good.
00:27:24
Speaker
Stardew obviously came out almost 10 years ago. it came out in 2016, I believe. Which is insane because it feels like it's been around forever, but yeah. at At time of purchase and still to this day, as far as I am aware, because I own it on three different platforms, is it was $15 and there has never been a paid DLC for it. He has only updated it for free for almost 10 years. Right. Now, quite a while ago, I can't remember when because I don't have the old texts in front of me, is he announced this game called Haunted Chocolatier.
00:27:54
Speaker
Great name. Yes. Amazing. And it was going to be in his art style. It was going to be a slightly different. cozy game but just a little bit different mechanically it wasn't going to be like stardew 2 he's not releasing a sequel right he's doing a game that's a little different but he's going to have the art style exactly the art style was exactly the same it felt you like you saw the art style on the teaser pictures and you were like heck yes i'm in and it was going to be a little bit different like you run a chocolate shop and then there is a villager aspect there is a relationship aspect but it's not like grandpa left you a farm kind of a situation now that game has been in development
00:28:32
Speaker
for a very very long time and again eric barone concerned ape is one person making this game and he's the only one working on the updates for stardew and when stardew released it only released on pc and now you can get it on like your everywhere yeah yeah yeah was gonna say you can have it your smartwatch uh i can play it on my refrigerator your ti-86 calculator will probably run stardew at this point yeah i would love that yeah but like He is the one that's pushing these updates and everybody's like, I love Stardew. And he's like, do you want Stardew or do you want Haunted Charcot? And somebody's like, we want both. Yeah. So like he he was like updating it less doing just like quality of life improvements, but like not doing big updates. But then he did Stardew 1.6 update, which added a fuck ton of content. Yeah. And I like I played it I sunk another one hundred hours into it going from beginning to end of game. Just I mean, there's no really end game, but going through the game from the start to try and see like what the new quality of life stuff was, which, by the way, it's fantastic. If you haven't played Stardew in a while, you should fire it up. But what he did is like, this is probably going to be it so that he can go work on Haunted Chocolatier because he's released some teaser stuff and it's nowhere near ready. But it means like the 1.6 update for Stardew is out.
00:29:47
Speaker
Now we're going to work my other game. Right. hu But what happened recently. like this is This is new, new fresh information ah like off off the off the internet. um Within the last, like I would say, couple of weeks, it's like it's you know early September at the moment, and right there is a concert tour of Sardi Valley. it's ah It's an orchestra symphony tour where they're doing all of the music and showing like really pretty, i don't know if it's gameplay or if it's just art and stuff. Well, Eric Barone was at
00:30:21
Speaker
one of the shows. Okay. And he came out on stage. And he announced 1.7. So what? And then it was like all over socials, right? So like all of the bootleg videos of him on stage announcing it. And then he put up on social that was like 1.7 coming. There is no date on it.
00:30:42
Speaker
Sure. There is no, ah there's nothing. He's like, I'm just telling you it's coming. I am working on it. But like, that's all I'm going to give you right now because I can't give you anything else. But it also meant like, oh, well,
00:30:54
Speaker
What's going on with this other game? Yeah. So like everybody has that game that's like, oh, like Silksong, right? So like we were just talking about it. It was like, is Silksong ever going to come out? And it's like, are we ever going to get Haunted Chocolatier? I'm like, I don't know. I don't care. Because frankly, I could play Stardew and only Stardew for the rest of my life and be fine with it.
00:31:10
Speaker
But I would love to see what else he does. But I also don't want him to to change what he's doing because people have been playing Stardew on repeat for thousands of hours since 2016.
00:31:24
Speaker
so Well, guys like Concerned Ape and you know these small actual true indie developers like who actually have a very small team or an individual that's making the whole game. Right. like um they code to me much more like writers as as a writer that's probably why i'm doing that but like you know you write something and then i'm in the process i've written three fantasy novels i took a break i wrote this sci-fi series and i did actually get a couple of people contacting me like but but but when's the next book coming out i'm like okay do you again do you want that or do you want this thing uh so i
00:31:59
Speaker
I get that idea of like, I can make one thing at one time and I can keep improving on the one thing or I can keep adding to it, but I am only one person and this is my art. And so if that's what my art is, then you have to accept that. I'm going to make it. I also like the idea of him making something different because that's similar to me to like a band releasing their next album. Right. And it's like, well, this is still, you know, the the band you love, but it might not be the same aesthetic. They might be trying something new, you know, whether you like that or not. Yeah. Interesting.
00:32:29
Speaker
I think it it's it's really hard when you're an artist. Like, I'm a creative person, and I have, like, a very finite well of creativity, and I can, like, focus on one thing at a time, right? so Oh, yeah. It's not like I would love to be able to multitask and give you a beefy Stardew update, but then also release this new game. But again, I'm one person with one brain, and there are only 24 usable hours in a day, and I do need to sleep. So it's like I can give you this and half-ass it,
00:32:57
Speaker
Or I can give you this and devote a lot of time to it and give you everything you wanted and more. Right. And the other thing is just going to have to wait. And that's fine. You know, like I, I am of the camp that I'm like, I will wait forever for haunted chocolatier. I will, it will be the mythical game of old where someday it's just going I'm going get an email from steam that says it's now available and I'm going start crying like wherever I am. But like,
00:33:23
Speaker
it's it's silksong i mean it is just like it's like it's coming out next week you're like what huh we're not gonna give you any time to get used to it like you know like we that's how that's how i hope it is i really honestly hope that that's how he releases haunted chocolatier is that yeah i'm gonna give you stardew 7 oh just by the way here's haunted chocolatier while you're waiting Honestly, I kind of love that that's happening. it like Like you said, a future episode will talk survival crafters, but i don't know if you saw RuneScape Dragon Wilds, which I haven't played RuneScape. So RuneScape released a RuneScape game that is a survival crafter.
00:33:59
Speaker
They didn't say anything. They just dropped it. At like it's, ah I guess, beta onto Steam. And like, you know, I have a friend who is all about survival crafting. So we bought it and it was like, yeah, it came out of nowhere. It was awesome. It was great that it dropped out nowhere. Not everything needs, you know, so hard set release dates and lead time and all those things. Well, and now it's like, wait, i do what drives me crazy now, and God, this is my age is showing, but it's every every game has a wish list this now kind of a thing. Yeah, Like, get on board now. get Right. Get into betas, alphas. yeah for For me, it's crazy because wishlisting something on Steam is not the same as pre pre-order my book kind of a thing. It's like, if you pre-order my book, that's telling my publisher...
00:34:49
Speaker
how many books I can I have sold and then that's but like when I am wishlisting a game on Steam and I am not a dev I'm not a publisher so I don't know how this works on on a video game scale and it's like you're just getting a bunch of people that are like yeah this seems interesting enough that I would like updates about it it's essentially signing up for an email list but it's not a guaranteed sale I'm sure you and I and everybody that has Steam has a wishlist that is well above, you know, 10 to 20 games on. Oh, yeah. and and And mine's split with coming soon and then games that are actually available for purchase, you know.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah, to use the book analogy, it's the not I will pre-order this book. It's the I am interested in possibly purchasing this book sometime in the future. Right. Maybe. it sure it's Yeah, it's like, hey, man, I'm so happy that you're writing a book and then walking away. Right. Yeah. And they're like, it what? I think that that makes these these smaller developers, it's like...
00:35:48
Speaker
it's nice when stuff gets wishlisted for them to see that there is interest, but then there has to be that deep seated fear of what if no one buys the shit when it comes out, you know? And now it's join my discord. And if I joined the discord for every game that I had on my wishlist, I would have an aneurysm with how many discords I was keeping track of. But like, yeah I hope that for indie devs, like truly indie devs, maybe it is like, hey, we have this many wishlists on steam. So if they're appealing to a bigger publisher for like,
00:36:16
Speaker
I don't know if that's if that's how it's working for people. We're like, this is how and this is all of the hype that's that's popping up on Steam about us. We should work together. I don't know if that's how it's working.
Indie Game Development Dynamics
00:36:27
Speaker
I hope it is. Because otherwise, telling me to wishlist a game that you're not going to put out until 2028, I could be dead by then. I don't know, man.
00:36:36
Speaker
I mean, it's also, it's like it's a lot like... There's different kinds of indie developers. I feel like a lot of these games we've talked about are developers that wanted to make that game and put it up because the thing they deeply cared about and it's success or failure wasn't necessarily the entire point. And obviously some of them really were massively successful. But then sometimes it feels like indie development games are like an audition to a bigger development deal later, almost like a director putting out a film, hoping to get picked up by a major studio to put out, you know, a bigger film with a bigger budget or something like that. And so in that sense, completely agree with you.
00:37:13
Speaker
I hope that they're getting that like, i don't feedback loop of people are wishlisting people are interested this person is has a creative take that we should pay attention to and if that's their goal they're getting that opportunity right um because i hope is that they're not going too far with that and being like too big for their britches and then nobody buys the game and then they have to fire all of these people that they just hired i'm looking directly at you coral island Uh-huh. Well, this is the thing. We've talked about these games. like Obviously, Animal Crossing is you know and is like a big yeah's ah it's a big game in terms of where it's coming from for a studio. But in a lot of cases, these games are the most interesting games that are getting made right now in both this, quote-unquote, cozy core category.
00:37:57
Speaker
And elsewhere, in my opinion, are not coming from any major studios. No, they're indie games. Yeah. What you are seeing from the cozy so from the cozy space, the games that are resonating the most with like cozy core gamers are truly indie games. Are there the outliers? Are there the Animal Crossings? Is there the Disney Dreamlight Valleys? Is there the Hello Kitty Island Adventures? Yes. But what you're seeing is the games that are tiny bookshop and you're seeing these small games, these fields of mystery, these tiny, the Luma Islands, all of those that are...
00:38:30
Speaker
are a smaller core team those are the ones that people are devoting hundreds thousands of hours to they're putting out youtube videos about and they're really going for broke about it and then a lot of the time the the bigger studio games that are trying to push into the cozy space are getting panned I don't think I've seen anything out of a major studio that isn't already an established, like, you know, like an Animal Crossing. Right. What's that game?
00:38:59
Speaker
I think this falls into that Cozy Gore category. I know you've played it and I can't think of the name. It's where you're just packing your moving boxes. or Unpacking. Unpacking. Unpacking is a game that will absolutely destroy you emotionally because the story is beautiful. And the game was so inexpensive, uhu which like that is also a factor for people because especially in ah in a realm where AAA games are trying to ask you $70. You know, for me, if and if a quote unquote cozy game is more than 20, I better be getting a lot of hours out of it. So like unpacking was a quick game.
00:39:34
Speaker
And it was beautiful. The art was beautiful. The story was beautiful. And the game was fun and cozy if you like unpacking and organizing things. So, like, that, I love that game. That was that was a humble game. That was a humble bundle. Okay. yeah That was that was a it was a very zen game to watch. Oh, my God. It's so, so good. if you like If you like unpacking, you'll really like Whisper of the House. That one just dropped recently, and I just played through it. it's got a little bit of a twist to it. in Sure. Not in a Graveyard Keeper way, but in like an actually cool way. Ah, there we go. I really enjoyed it. I saw another creator play it. I say creator like I'm one. I saw a YouTuber that I really love.
00:40:17
Speaker
She was playing it. I was like, what the heck is this? And then I played through it and it is really fun. It is an unpacking, organizing, decoration game, but it's not like... It's not just that. It's it's a little bit deeper. it's It was really cute. I think it could... There should be more. There's a couple of things that I would tweak about it, but I genuinely enjoyed it.
00:40:35
Speaker
Do you think like some of the walking sims fall into this category? Yeah. like i I remember one of the games that I... Also, like you said, hard to tell how much emotional like weight affects whether you find a game to be quote-unquote cozy or not, but um Gone Home is one of my favorite games that... like Initially, it had to me a bit of an eerie, creepy vibe because, yeah you know spoiler alert, you're a person that shows up to a house and you're the only one there and you just kind of walk around, pick stuff up and piece together a story. um
00:41:07
Speaker
But I actually found it to be mesmerizingly calming to play that. Absolutely. i think I think visual novels have ah have a place in cozy gaming space. another one, yeah. yeah I mean, like i think ah I think point and click games. i think Well, those might be the original cozy core in some ways. But like there are point and clicks. or like even like I found, i because I'm a little bit psychotic, I think escape room games interesting are occasionally quite cozy because I love a puzzle.
00:41:37
Speaker
Right. Well, it's not dissimilar to sitting down and doing a jigsaw, right? It's just a different medium you're doing it in. And for many people, that's that's how they relax. Right. That would make sense to me. yeah It's also levels of cozy because, like, I don't know. I'm neurodivergent. So sometimes I don't want to sit down and play Stardew just because, like, I can't focus on that many things at once. Right. So I'll play something that requires even less attention. And then like at the end of the night, when I'm done playing regular video games, I will open up like the Microsoft Word games and play those to unwind. Yeah. So like that, because that's the person that I am. Even how many how many of us, you know, lost hours of our lives just playing eight mindlessly on Minesweeper and it was not wasted time or Solitaire. Solitaire remains the cozy game. I won't tell you what level I am in Microsoft Solitaire because it's really embarrassing. Are you are you like the boomer mother that's on like level 9000 of Candy Crush? I love Words with Friends. No, it's just yeah i just there are levels of coziness. And yes, I think Walking Sims, I think Point and Clicks, i like I think organization games. You have to think like a little to the left was was and still is an incredible game.
00:42:53
Speaker
And it's literally just like putting things in order. like That's all it is. And there are some like more quote unquote challenging parts of it, but like it's at its core a game where you're picking something up and putting it down in another place. That's that's all it is. But it is so calming.
00:43:10
Speaker
Well, what's really interesting about all of those games you're mentioning, too, is like some of these are games I could give to someone who does not play games, who will derive so much enjoyment out of it. Right. Like we have not mentioned this one, but and it doesn't, I guess, fall under what people would probably widely consider if you're using the like Stardew Valley ah as the model. But Bellatro Yes.
Cozy Games: Appeal Beyond Gamers
00:43:35
Speaker
Okay. I just got a code to play their next game. So I did't' that's nice i didn't play Bellatro. I haven't either. I don't play poker, right? So it's like the game was kind of lost on me because I don't know how i'm goingnna find that relaxing if it's a game that i I don't know how to play. Right. Yeah. That seems stressful. Yeah.
00:43:52
Speaker
But my friend sent me a code for their from the makers of Bellatro for Ratcoin, which is a coin pusher roguelike. Oh, interesting. Okay. And I will tell you that it is quite cozy. Okay. So yeah, I went at it. And people loved Bellatro. They played it for hours. The reason I brought Bellatro up is very funny. So like my friend, Zach, who will be a guest on this at some point, um he ah he's one person that I play with a lot. And he told me he got his mother, who, you know, we all, ah spoiler, work at work together in the same job as as educators,
00:44:32
Speaker
she who's not a gamer is like obsessed about the latro it's like it's one of those things where if you find like you said if you're somebody who knew the card game and enjoys the card game and likes that part of it you could pick that up and that feels very like relaxing to play that game or at least it's you know a brain exercise um not unlike a crossword that is doing for you exactly what you want it to do Yeah, like there are so many games out there. Like if you are a person that wants to get into more gaming or you know somebody who's not a gamer and you're trying to kind of explain how you spend so much time sitting at your computer or like watching or like playing like PS5 or whatever, there there are so many gateway games and a lot of those games are cozy. Only because like not everybody wants to sit down and play a video game and be stressed out.
00:45:24
Speaker
Or have a gigantic arcing story with many plot threads in line. I'm not going to sit down and give somebody who's never played a video game Witcher 3. That's not going to happen. you're like I'm going to sit down and be like, hey, have you heard of this game? It is literally just unpacking things. Or, hey, have you ever heard of this game? It's literally just like a puzzle but that it was sitting in front of you isn't this kind of also why i mean i know there's obviously the sort of addictive feedback loop nature but a lot of mobile games fed into that where it's like no this is just a simple thing one of the games i have played so much on my phone is hexasort it's just sorting colored hexagon tiles next to each other that stuff because that stuff is again
00:46:06
Speaker
it's It doesn't require stress. It's common. But you have to if think a little, but it's not stressful thinking. And there's no time. Like, there's nothing that's in there that's, like, stressing you out like a timer or anything like that.
00:46:17
Speaker
Like, it can as competitive as you want. I love the games that you have to un-park cars in the right order. Absolutely. Right? I mean, those are based on board games that people are playing some point. There's clearly, there's got to be something about doing that that we as a species like on some level.
00:46:32
Speaker
Right? Unraveling a puzzle. which makes us feel good. but But it's also, again, like we, a lot of us spend so much time hustling, whether it be in work or life in general.
00:46:43
Speaker
And I have like five minutes to try and shut my brain off. Like, yeah, that, that it helps to stare at something that isn't going to require and an excessive amount of brain power. Like, I don't need to worry about my decisions affecting a character's life. I just have to find where the stack of red hexagons are. You know, like, that's that's easy to me in in a way that's relaxing. And that's why you have people that are level 9000 in Candy Crush points or, you know, like, love playing Bejeweled.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yep. Still to this day. Like I play mobile. There's a mobile game series called Monument Valley. And I've seen those. Yeah. Yeah. So like the first two games I played on my iPad.
00:47:26
Speaker
And then I bought them on Steam because I wanted to see them on a bigger screen. And guess what? The third one just came out and it's fantastic. So like there there really is a game out there. Like what? Grease is out there. Like all of those games that are, one, visually stunning.
00:47:43
Speaker
And two, there isn't a heck of a lot of risk involved in them because you're just going to respawn. I think that's actually the part is that the lack of the risk is the thing that makes something actually kind of cozy. Like, i don't know if you ever saw the game Rime.
00:47:58
Speaker
It's R-I-M-E. It was the platformer with the little white fox, which, again, I like foxes yeah game because of that. um But that game was incredibly soothing to play, despite the fact it's a platformer, which is usually game. Notoriously stressful. Yeah. Yeah. The whole stress is the timing and all that. But because the game had no real stakes, like if you missed, you just kind of started over at a reasonable point. The game wanted you to progress it. It didn't wasn't trying to, you know, hard lock you out of the next part of the game through the difficulty.
00:48:25
Speaker
Oh, like, Pikuniku did that, and I loved Pikuniku. That's also a platformer at times. so Yeah, well, and I was thinking specifically of all of these Souls-like games. Like, i i love Bloodborne. Bloodborne is, I mean, it's basically a game designed for me. I think I've mentioned this before. Like, it is a Lovecraftian, eldritch, like, gothic, like, medieval horror setting. Like, yes, inject it into my veins, please. Sure. But it also is a game where if you are not playing it,
00:48:53
Speaker
daily basically and consistently to get all the timing and everything else and you will hard you know get hard locked out of parts where there's a boss you can't beat the timing for. And I would play that game and get stressed about getting to the next boss, knowing I now would have to beat my head against said boss for a while.
00:49:12
Speaker
And yes, there's a lot of satisfaction that comes out of beating them, but I really just wanted to see more of the world. I wanted like i wanted to do a walking sim. I wanted to go around. I saw somebody post- That's what I wanted Elden Ring to be. Somebody just posted about that. rad yeah Well, somebody just posted on Reddit, can't they do like a version of Elden Ring that is like the Elden Ring tourism version, where you just walk around and interact with bosses and get lulled and That's what I wanted Breath of the Wild to do. That's what I wanted. it like Because I am not... I didn't grow up... Again, I did not grow up playing video games, so I'm not good at timing. Don't give me a QTE. I will cry. like All of that stuff. it just But like these worlds are so beautiful. i Just just like let me go in there and build a house.
00:49:54
Speaker
Well, we've we've alluded to it before, but we will talk about in another episode, the the survival craft. When we were playing, your role was that person building that sweet looking house. Because to me, that's cozy. But also, if you tune into any stream in which the person that you're watching is not the base builder and they have to build anything, it is the least stressed but it is the most stressful thing that they could possibly imagine trying to build a box. So again, that's cozy. Like, I find those games cozy because I could build an entire town.
00:50:27
Speaker
And you have. I've been there. Yeah. yeah So, you know, cozy is the relative. Is there a game that you would put in that cozy element for whatever reason that you think not enough people
Game Recommendations and Hidden Gems
00:50:40
Speaker
know about? You mentioned a bunch, but...
00:50:46
Speaker
For me, I think Luma Island is one of the most slept on cozy games because I think it kind of flew under the radar and they just did a huge update that ah adds a whole new realm to the game. And it's phenomenal. And it doesn't have it's so customizable in the menus because they have a cozy setting.
00:51:11
Speaker
Oh, I like, okay. they know what they're doing. You don't trigger enemies if you don't want to. You can walk right by them and they will not attack you unless you attack them first. and in that game, you can change it in mode that you don't die and lose your stuff.
00:51:29
Speaker
You just, like, if you get hit by something, it'll spread your stuff out on the ground, but it's easy for you to collect and you don't have to start the level over again. and ah You don't have to sleep.
00:51:41
Speaker
There is no exhaustion mechanic. There is no there's no bar that you have to keep track of. There's you're not going to pass out anywhere. it is so great. And it can be a little grindy, but the grinding is rewarded. And there is farming, but you don't have to. I mean, you don't technically have to farm because you choose your profession at the beginning of the game.
00:52:04
Speaker
So if you're like, I don't want to farm in this game Guess what? You don't have to you That sounds like it's giving you the ability to basically play the game the way you want to play it Exactly, and it's multiplayer Which is always fun too, because then you can have, you know, people who play It's actually, in my opinion, sometimes fun to play multiplayer games with people who play the game totally differently from you Because it's yeah that complimentary play style works out real well yeah with a lot of those I agree. So like Luma Island, I would highly recommend if if you like a cozy game, there are puzzle elements to it. There is combat if you want there to be combat. There is resource gathering. There is a story that's kind of weird, but it's kind of fun. It's also ah like a monster collecting game. So you do get cute little companions. And I i just just, the art is really cute and it's low stakes. Yeah.
00:52:59
Speaker
And I think it's phenomenal. So i I think Luma Island is really slept on. so Well, that's I like that recommendation. I think we're in a table. This is an episode. And we'll hold off and do survival crafting at some other point. But ah B, do you want to plug anything?
00:53:16
Speaker
ah I mean, i don't really have a huge presence. I mean, if you're around on Wednesdays, come to the Penny Arcade Twitch channel and watch ah the Joshua from Penny Arcade yell at me and a fellow mod about materials and getting very ugly animals killed completely by accident on purpose. So yeah, that's about it.
00:53:40
Speaker
I am still waiting for someone to convince Josh to do enshrouded and then I will make my glorious return as an honorary mod squad member just just to watch him do everything wrong and to let it frustrate but also amuse me at the same time because that is the experience of playing a game with Josh Price. That's what that is. That's on Wednesdays, uh, four to seven Eastern. So whatever, nope. Three to seven Eastern. i know time yeah time. Yeah. So wherever you are not compared to Eastern, figure it out. You can Google it. It's free. It's not my job to tell you what time it is where you are. correct Well, ah my writing can be followed at TrevorHPaul.com and also ah under TH h Paul on Blue Sky because that other platform is no longer cool. ah Yeah, that's an episode.
00:54:26
Speaker
Thanks for hanging out.