Transcript
Speaker: Hi, everyone. Welcome to Queer Lodgings, the queer led podcast about everything talking. I'm Alicia and I'm here today with the usual suspects, my co -hosts, Grace. Hi. And Leah. Hi, guys. And today we have a very special guest, Adam Brown.
Speaker: who you might remember as the most adorable of the dwarves, Ori, from the Peter Jackson Hobbit movies, or perhaps his sad Moria cameo in The Lord of the Rings. Thank you so much for joining us today, Adam. Thank you. jim By the way, the latter I didn't get paid for. That's poor shit.
Speaker: Yeah, you just deserve residuals from that appearance. that's but That's some of my best work, I think, in that movie. And I didn't get paid. Terrible. Yeah, that's my best ah skeleton acting there. Oh my god, the first time that I watched the Lord of the Rings movies after having watched the Hobbit movies and we got to that, I got so sad.
Speaker: Me too! I was like, oh no, Ori! Oh no! Finally, his terrible hairdo melted away. Just his skeleton. Should you feel sorry or relief for him? Who knows?
Speaker: And thank you to all the lodgers who have joined us today. and Settle in around the table, enjoy the music of Elvin Lutz in the background, and it's time to tuck into some green food whether you like it or not. Today we're discussing Adam's experience working on the Hobbit movies. Yay! I'm so excited.
Speaker: I guess we can kind of plunge right in. I guess what a lot of us would like to know is what's your relationship with Tolkien look like? How did you encounter Tolkien? When did you first encounter him? Did you have any familiarity with him before you started work? Really? No. I think I remember, if I go way back to primary school, I remember the book being read to me, The Hobbit, at school.
Speaker: And then obviously the Lord of the Rings came out and that was a Christmas tradition with my dad. And we went to the cinema and we watched, you know, the Lord of the Rings trilogy as, as dad and son at Christmas. And so that was incredibly special. And obviously when I told him that I got cast, his mind was completely blown away. So yeah, he was so, so chuffed.
Speaker: but Yes, I will hands up confess that when my agent called me and said, got an audition for The Hobbit, my gosh, tell me if I'm going to keep going on and all you have a story. But um essentially I went up to Bilbo Baggins as many, i many actors did in the UK, because I don't know if you know, but Martin Freeman wasn't being released from the his Sherlock contract. Right.
Speaker: it was always going to be Martin. and Anyway, they were looking for a British actor under the height of five foot seven. and I fitted into that territory. I went up for the audition and it was my first movie audition. that's so how wow I had a lovely time with the casting director and I was incredibly nervous, as you can imagine. And he said, well, that was a great, great audition, Adam. You're, you're here pretty soon from Peter and Fran and Philippa. They, they watch the tapes pretty soon, but thank you very much. And then like the day after my, my agent ran away and went,
Speaker: Okay, so you're not Bilbo Baggins. Damn it. I think it would be a very different film if I was. But they they were thinking of a dwarf for you. And this is how much I didn't know the world of Tolkien. I was like, does that mean like villager number one or villager number two? Like how big is that? and and And then I completely forgot about it. And I think seven weeks later,
Speaker: I got a phone call from the the agent saying, yes, well, you're going to be already the dwarf. They don't want to change you at all. That nervous energy is everything that they want. You fly to New Zealand in two months time, ah pack up your belongings and off you go. So yeah, it was wonderful. And when I got there, they were just so great and they were, and the wonderful things that I remember being told by Peter and Fran to people like the dialect coach and and sort of the acting people that were there to support us was don't change Adam, don't change him, we want Ori exactly like that. So for me Ori was me, he was written for me and they didn't it was just so wonderful that I came as that nervous guy in the audition and I ah tackled trolls, orcs and goblins as that
Speaker: very timid guy as well. So yeah, that's my story. It's so wonderful to be here. Whenever I guess the way that you put it, nervous energy really like got to me because I was sort of like, if I was a dwarf, that's the one I would be. I would be the one with it and the soft knits and yeah lots of enthusiasm, but also kind of like, I really don't know what I'm doing here.
Speaker: I know is that it was like that and then we I remember being in New Zealand and sitting around the table in wetter workshop with all of all of the boys and the drawings came out of what we were going to look like and these were our weapons and obviously it was just such an incredible but experience but when it got to um the weapons it was actually Richard Armitage that sort of made a joke and said he should have a slingshot. And that's how I got my slingshot. Because he got his slingshot. Because Rick said, he can't wield an axe, that guy. So yeah, that's how I got my slingshot. Oh, that's amazing. That's so cute. Also, I love Ori's costume. I love how like knit heavy it is. And it looks so cozy. It was heavy. It was heavy.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm sure it was. I pictured Dory having knit that for you. Oh, yes, he probably did. Oh, bless. Bless Mark Hadlow.
Speaker: Yeah, I can't imagine how much that knit weight on top of like the suit you're already having to wear. I've been to a couple of interviews with people who play dwarves at DragonCon and stuff, and like I've heard all about the dwarf milk and all of that, so I can only yeah can only imagine like how heavy and hot all of that was.
Speaker: we were We were hot. we were We were a hot, sweaty bunch of actors that moaned a lot. okay As you can imagine. Oh, wait. If you haven't heard about the dwarf milk, because I just realized I should probably explain that. It's a listener. Should we?
Speaker: Although it is funnier to leave it unexplained. um Yeah, it's nasty stuff in the prosthetics afterwards. Yeah, it's it's basically um like a powder that you can put on your hands to make the prosthetic hands go on really easily. But after you've had a day shooting in those, when you took that off, it was like a clear, liquidy goo that came out afterwards. So yeah, not pleasant, not pleasant.
Speaker: oh Thank God you referred to it as dwarf milk instead of something else. Yeah, yeah. Oh wow, I'd like to see that film.
Speaker: That's the porno parody phrase. I'm sure it's out there somewhere. I'm sure. Oh, yeah.
Speaker: ah So, like, you said you had a little bit of familiarity from when you were a kid, perhaps having had the Hobbit read to you. Did you go back and read it to like prep for the role? I did. I read the Hobbit and and then I tackled Lord of the Rings again. I watched a lot of the backstage stuff with with the boys from Lord of the Rings and the world of that. I couldn't quite believe that I was going to step into that world. So yeah, I did a little bit of research and yeah, generally got very excited. But but did you go through and then read the Silmarillion? Hell no. That's the right answer. Well, I mean, that that is a mission in itself.
Speaker: But well done, people that have read that. It took Producer Tim seven years to read The Silmarillion. Wow. Wow. yeah
Speaker: I'm kind of curious, like once you had gone through and you'd read ah The Hobbit knowing that you were going to be in this role and everything, Ben as you were getting scripts or anything, was there anything that you were like surprised or really excited about that you were going to get to do in the scripts or in the film that hadn't necessarily, Ben is like carefully spelled out in the book or anything. Was there anything that like any of the like the visual expansion or anything that you were like, oh, this is going to be fun to play with?
Speaker: are so many things. I mean, we've got the scripts very late. Essentially, they were still writing them as we got there. I know the first film was very much written, but the second one wasn't. And of course, you know, that changed again halfway through when when to two films became three. Right. But yes, I just absolutely loved the detail that they went into in terms of what was a paragraph in one book turned into lots and lots of magical scenes. I mean, the barrel ride in itself was probably the most fun I've ever had. Period. It was so good. An extension of, yeah, just just the world, the world that they've created and the imagination that they have as you as an actor going into that world. I mean, it only helps your performance. You're going crikey. It's so strange. It's so strange. New Zealand is when I got there, it was like the sets
Speaker: were so, so, so real. They were so real. It's unbelievable. And then the scenery in New Zealand is so incredible. It's almost fake. like you did did You didn't know which was which. you know You go, is this real? Is this fake? I'm not sure. It was just, yeah, it was great. Yeah. um I just went to New Zealand last December and the thing that really stood out to me was how fake all the colors look. Like when you look at the Peter Jackson movies and how like blue the sky is and how green the grass is, you just assume it's color grading, but no, that's just what New Zealand actually looks like. Yeah, that that's New Zealand. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah. Well, one thing that I really kind of appreciated a lot, seeing the Hobbit translated visually was honestly like how much character was actually given to each of the dwarves. Like in the book, they're kind of just like a ah weird sort of like unit. They're all sort of faceless and together basically, just like as Doran and his pals basically. And so I loved being able to kind of see that individuality come out with each of the dwarves and give each of them like these these characteristics that make them really memorable. And again, going back to seeing what happens in Moria, you're kind of like, oh, gosh, yeah, that was Bolin. That was Ori. These were these guys that i that we actually know now. They're not like just kind of a villager or dwarf number one anymore, really.
Speaker: Yes, exactly. I mean, we all really, really, I think, I think Pete, Peter Jackson wanted each child out there to have their favorite dwarf that they would play with. And it would be ah my favorite is the hot dwarf. yeah My favorite is that one. My favorite is the tip timid one. I think it was that child to open up that toy box and have their favorite. And I think I think there is one. There is ah there is a duel for everybody ready, isn't there? Aw, yeah. Yeah, there sure is. so Well, kind of stepping back a little bit from The Hobbit, I would kind of love to know, like were you reading any sort of like like genre or like fantasy and stuff like that when you were younger? like What kind of things were you watching or reading? And like did any of them have like an impact on your decision to go into performing and into acting?
Speaker: That's a good question. I definitely wasn't a reader and I still am not a reader really, but in terms of watching things, I think my love of entertainment came from British comedy, whether that be the two Ronnies, you probably don't know any of these people, two Ronnies, it would be Dad's army, it would be Jennifer Saunders, and it would be the Abbabs, it would be this kind of world that I was just absolutely adored and obsessed with. So I think that was my go -to for what I'd be watching. That and 80s rom -coms.
Speaker: Anything with Goldie Horn. That kind of real screwball 80s comedies that you just don't see anymore. I had a lovely conversation with somebody in the pub the other week and I I was saying Goldie Horn is my favorite actress. There has never been, and I still don't think that they've tried to make, I don't think there has been, possibly they tried to do it with Cameron Diaz, but no one is absolutely stunning and beautiful and pinup, but with proper comedy chops like she was and is just, so I i can stand stand up strong and say Goldie Horn is my favorite actress. Oh, I love that. Wonderful.
Speaker: Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. I kind of feel like in terms of like, um I guess, I feel like maybe Sandra Bullock is somebody who kind of comes to mind with similar vibes. Similar. Very beautiful. Very funny. Yeah. Yeah. but Even Sandra's no Goldie Horn. It's true. um Sorry, Sandra. i yeah there's ah So basically comedy was my route into theatre and yeah the world of showbiz, it's just everything for me, it needs a played with humanity, but a real kind of comedy touch to it, whether you're, I mean, that's my bag, you know, yeah that's my, that's my world, I think, yeah just something that can make people laugh. I think probably because I was never gonna be the hunk. I found yeah, I found a way of just finding, yeah, a bit of a
Speaker: I show off as being a bit of a comedian at school and things like that. So yeah, that's how I got into the world a bit, really. Were you a class clown? Yes. It was not really a group for me. I was ah wasn't in the cool group and I wasn't in the not cool group. But um yeah, I found my my way of being accepted and loved and liked was being a show off, look at me, I'm an idiot. And I'm still doing that today. still doing It's the same old stuff I doing that i did at school. and But getting paid for it now. Yeah, that's nice. I think we underestimate like how when someone makes us smile, when someone makes us laugh, when someone makes us feel, like genuinely connect with emotion and get to express it,
Speaker: We forget how attractive we as human beings find that. And it's very funny for me now, I have like a friend that I went to elementary school with who is fairly well known in the comedy world now. And it is just fascinating to have like the internet just thirsting over someone that I went to school with and that like we were the weird kids and like it d you know nobody nobody thought, like oh, well, yeah they're going to be the hunk or whatever.
Speaker: And then by the time like you get to it and you get to reach all these people, people are like, oh my gosh, so, oh my gosh. And so yeah I imagine that a little bit of that has happened for you as as well. And there's people are like, oh, oh, and he was like, they're really cute, adorable little, like, hey.
Speaker: I mean, I think it can go back to my hometown. I don't know. I'm the guy from the Hobbit. Like before, if if the Hobbit didn't come along, I'd just be still that idiot from school. So yeah, I'm still doing the same old thing. Yeah.
Speaker: and kind of getting, I guess, getting back into more growing up and stuff. What was your understanding of like the wider queer community like when you were growing up? What was your journey around sort of discovering the queer community and kind of understanding yourself a bit more like? ah yeah I would say, I would say a slow process, I would imagine. Yeah, I just, I think it was a slow process. I mean, I came out very late.
Speaker: And it was, ah there was obviously, in um I am 44, Crikey, I'm 44. And it such was such a different time, such a different time back then. And I just, I do envy the world that we're in today. and And think of my set of, think of myself back in that time. Yeah, Goldie Horn was my gay icon, I guess.
Speaker: percent Yeah, so i yeah i think I think it was a very different time and um yeah. and That's not very clear, is it? But i but yeah. but Well, it's like I'm 37. You know, I'm like straight down the middle of the road, millennial. And I also came out to myself very late as far as these things go, partly because of I think we were growing up in the 90s where gay and trans folks were the butt of jokes like Seinfeld and friends over here. Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker: But also Ellen DeGeneres came out on primetime television. And so it was kind of a weird nebulous sort of thing. And I didn't have a very clear understanding of the queer community or are gay people existing until quite late and so so yeah, it's just sort of like hearing about you saying and that it's kind of like a slow process and also that envy I think of the younger generation like I often think about like if I were growing up right now like just how different it would be for for me and for the folks hosting this podcast I think and how very different it would be for a lot of us growing up because I we saw the change basically as we were growing up and a lot of people get to enjoy it now. hundred said Yeah. Also like I'm 40 and I'm still figuring stuff out. Yeah, exactly. It didn't have the words for it, you know, back in the day and now we do have words for it. and Yes, yes. I am also in that
Speaker: mildly envious boat. I'm also very happy for them, but like, my God, how much easier it must be now, in some ways. In some ways. The work is not done, but yeah. but what The work is definitely not done. in In terms of, I mean, we get to a point out where, and the you know, the world is even bigger now, even bigger, and that things are possible now, which I think is should be embraced. And I mean, you know, you cannot As a child, growing up in the 90s, you can't really be if you haven't seen it, do you know, you can't, you can't, but you can't, if you got if it's not around you, you can't be it. And I think it's in it's incredibly, incredibly important. but You know, you made and you made a point just earlier about being the butt of a joke. I mean, the British comedy is classic for that, where you where
Speaker: And it is is so British where you'd have the unspoken gay man just being the butt of the joke all coming with the one line now and then and then you know it their story would never have an arc. You would never know what they'd do. They would just come on and and go, oh, and then walk off again. And of course it would bring the house down and we would all laugh. yeah ah But yeah you know as a child, I didn't know what I was laughing at.
Speaker: I mean, I i still, I've raced that world. I just think it's so British and it's so wonderful. But, you know, I spoke to my very best friend and her daughter is obsessed with the show Heartstoppers. And I watched the first season and I actually got incredibly emotional watching it. like yeah It's not my kind of show, but I was like, wow, this is around.
Speaker: And my 14 -year -old goddaughter is watching this. And it's wonderful, absolutely wonderful that a show like that exists. And at the market of 14, I mean, it's ah incredibly popular, that you don't have to but for the market that it's targeted at, I just think, how amazing is that show? How amazing is that show and how How would my life have been different if things like that were on television and they weren't on television? and I remember the big gay kiss on the local um on the soap opera here. you know none That happened very, very late at night on ah on an episode that started at 9 o 'clock at night. yeah i would And I would creep downstairs and I would watch through the banisters. My mum and dad were watching it going,
Speaker: This is amazing, but also it feels really naughty because it was, because it was marketed as naughty. And, um, I just, I think to be in a world where shows like that and the generation can watch that just how bloody brilliant that is. Yeah. Yeah. Totally agree.
Speaker: Yeah, there is something about British comedy that maybe tell me a little bit more about things have changed, but a man in a dress is always a great comedy sort of delivery system or a punchline in a lot of British comedy. And that's something that I, you know, even like revisiting things like like Monty Python or, you know, some of the other things that have come across the pond here that I've had a lot more awareness of as I've gotten older where I'm kind of like,
Speaker: Oh, okay. Yeah. So that's, that's the joke. I see. I see. ah yeah it It's incredibly hard to, I mean, it it's a debate, isn't it? And a, and a real, if you really dig deeper at that is it's, there's so much to talk about, but yeah, there's, there's a, there's a tradition which I, I write and direct pantomimes, English pantomimes.
Speaker: I was with Ian McKellen last year in the West End. Yes, yes. I played the King of Gooseland and he played Mother Goose. Oh my gosh. shits Mother Goose was incredible. Who was who was a dame. And I remember him coming to me because he knows that I love that genre and I write genres and said, I want to play the dame. But yes, it was a very hard one for non Brits to understand.
Speaker: It can be a little bit, but I'm glad that you were bringing that up because i I was hoping that you would talk a little bit more about Panto because I'm sort of fascinated by it as a non -Grit. It feels very medieval in a way that is really appealing to me. And I mean medieval in terms of like, it's been around forever. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: butla I absolutely adore the art form. Awesome. i there is so much snob This is why it was so amazing that Ian did it. There's so much snobbery in the UK about the art form. It's like the lowest low ah of art forms happens every every Christmas in every theatre up and down the country. And and that one show will change a child's life forever. And it was certainly the same sort of thing for me, you know, the local, you know, my parents weren't theater goers, but that we would go and see the local pantomime every year, I would sit down and watch it. And I would see a man in a dress, and I would laugh at this man in a dress. And it was not just about managers, it's the world of pantomime where anything is possible. And it's such a hearty,
Speaker: British ah stems from music hall, old fashioned music hall. It even goes back further than that right to like Commedia dell 'arte. But essentially it's it's an art form that is still with us because it's so robust and you can chuck anything at it. And it also, it knows when it's wrong as well and changes ah changes as well. And the cross gender stuff is done with pure joy.
Speaker: And there's no malice to it. And yeah, no, I'm a big fan. And it was just absolute a pleasure to to do it with Ian. It was a long, long show. We toured for, gosh, we opened in November in my hometown. And then we went to the West End and we toured until April. So yeah, it was a long, long journey. wow yeah And pantomime is usually a Christmas tradition.
Speaker: yeah So we were doing panto at Easter, which felt very strange. I was going to say, very surreal. yeah that but It's also just such ah fun in the art form because the audience has a role. in like there's There's so much audience feedback and interaction and tradition of like we boo and we hiss and we cheer and and all of that.
Speaker: And it's a very different culture from a lot of theater here in the States where it's very, very demure. You sit, you clap, you, like, that's it. And I remember with great joy going to see a Robin Hood pantomime when I was studying in London and just, it's such fun. And it's something that I really appreciate about British theater in particular. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it will survive anywhere else. I think they do try and do the odd one in a in America. that There's a few companies that do it in Australia, but it's so it's so British, it's unbelievable. I'm not sure it will travel across the pond. It's a staple of every child's... You pretty much go on a school trip, if if not. It's like your end -of end-of- -year treat at school.
Speaker: But and there's no explanation to a child to say boo and hiss at these points because they know exactly what to do at exactly the right time. And like you say, you're exactly right. They are the biggest character. The audience are the biggest character in the show. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I actually sent a bit a picture of me and Ian to Peter Jackson ah in our panto costumes. Oh, great. And it's quite an outrageous costume we both have.
Speaker: Mine in particular, and he replied going, wonderful to hear from you. I'd love to see what you look like in the costumes. Referring to that, like it was like our normal wear that we're just, this is just a picture out in the pub. Just hanging out. Oh, that's fantastic. I love that. Well, actually talking about Peter Jackson and everything, going back to the hob in a minute.
Speaker: What are some favorite memories that you have from filming those films? Honestly, everything was just... If I could pocket a part of my life that was just untouchable was those times in and New Zealand. It was amazing. And every day, I used to pinch myself. And that's no word of a lie. I think I got quite down one day with my makeup artist is saying, i wasn't I'm not having a very good time today. and I'm um really working myself up.
Speaker: you know, there's me in my house by the sea with my personal trainer, my masseuse, and I was, you know, and I'm moaning, I'm having a bad day, and they're like, I mean, it's okay to have a bad day, you're okay, you are human. I was like, yeah, but look, I mean, this is heaven, it's amazing. And working with, you know, working with giants in the acting industry, working with such talented people. You know, when I watched the Lord of the Rings backstage stuff,
Speaker: um I honestly did was a bit cynical. I thought, well, this is all bullshit. you know that They can't be one big happy family, but we really were. you And I've never done a job, and I don't think I ever will do a job like it, where we are still in contacts. Not all the time, but they're real friends. They are real friends, those people. And yeah, you know if we were in a room together, it would be just stuck at the same.
Speaker: So yes, we so happy. yeah Oh, good, good. Well, I think it's the right answer. And I think that's what ah Peter Jackson wanted. But I think it shows in the movies, you know, I think it shows it does feel like one there was no hierarchy. um Of course, you know, some people are getting paid a lot more money than other people.
Speaker: and But some like our trailers were the same size. We all thought, you know, everything was similar. Now, then I did a job for another job where I realized, oh, it's not like it was in New Zealand. I've got a small trailer because I'm not important. And you're you've got a massive you know a massive trailer because you're much more important. It's the right way of working out there. just It was a joy. I honestly had the best the best time of my life there.
Speaker: That makes me so happy to hear the behind the scenes of Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit. They're like my like happy place. They're like, if I was Peter Pan, that would be my happy thoughts to make me fly. like Going there is kind of like my my comfort place. And so like whenever I'm having a really horrible time, I'm like, pop in those blueze blue rays and just watch behind the scenes footage of of you guys because I'm just like, it looks like you're all having a blast. And I'm so pleased to hear that you guys really, really felt like family and really felt that closeness. Yeah, we did. We really did.
Speaker: That actually brings me to a question that I wanted to ask about think behind the scenes and everything, which is that, and I'm maybe making presumptions here, but it seems like that was a really supportive environment. And how does working in a supportive and queer -friendly environment behind the camera affect the work overall, affect the, I guess, even like the the way that the audience might even receive any of that?
Speaker: I think it's tremendously important I think for any actor or whether you're actor or crew ah or any creative on the team to to be to be themselves and to in order to essentially in order to fail in front of each other and it would be okay. If we're masking all the time whether that be you know your sexuality or whatever it is that's just another barrier where we're not We're not being a trusting place where we can fail in front of each other. And I think if you're filming, you know, you've got to, in a sense, you've got to be vulnerable in order to do your best work. Does that make sense? Yes, yeah. Excuse me, the kitten is deleted. The question everyone is going, Jesus.
Speaker: The animals are destroying everything today. I've never been upstaged by a cat before.
Speaker: yeah Well, now you're famous for that, okay? I have a question just kind of surrounding like the the fan reaction to like having so many queer people in a Tolkien property, because when Ian McKellen was cast as Gandalf, there was a bunch of pushback about having Gandalf be played by a gay man. Very famously, there's a post on his blog about it.
Speaker: that we end up having to trot out a bunch when people tell us that that wasn't a thing that happened. And we're like, oh, no, no, it did happen. Here is a blog from the early 2000s that bruised your lungs. And now with Rings of Power and them casting a bunch of like, you know, POC as characters, and there's a bunch of pushback about that. Was there pushback about having queer people involved in the Hobbit movies?
Speaker: that that you were aware of because if there was it slipped straight by me from um fans yeah media fans that sort of thing yeah maybe i was a bit naive and i didn't really investigate that too too busy being incredibly nervous but um and it was ah i think it was a lit it was very different as well hmm no i i didn't I don't, yeah, maybe I didn't investigate that as much as I probably should have. But yeah, I know that there was, I know Ian, for example, did say that his time on The Hobbit felt more enjoyable because there were far more gay actors on that film than there were on on Lord of the Rings. And he, you know, it's nice to work with fellow like -minded people, you know. yeah
Speaker: Yeah, i I do remember that ah interview he gave because it kind of accidentally outed a couple of people. Right. That'd be Ian for you. Oops. up Love him.
Speaker: Yeah, I didn't notice any ah real pushback about that because when I was paying attention, most of what I saw was this frantic, oh my God, who else on this production was gay? It wasn't, oh my God, there are gay people on this production. It really does seem to have been, it's almost as if the Hobbit was made in this like little golden era where people just didn't care as much about like queer people.
Speaker: being like infants. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We were all like, Oh my God. Like you're all here and you're all like my family, you know? It's like, Oh yeah, great. It's been a joy for a lot of Lord of the Rings token fans as various folks have like come out more and more publicly who've been involved with the films. like I think that's, for a lot of us, been ah a source of absolute joy. And so I hope that that that joy resonates back to the folks is as you're going through that journey. That's great. That's good to hear. Yeah.
Speaker: Oh, wait we have a ah question kind of obliquely coming in from producer Tim. So Tim and I got to tour Weta and meet Richard Taylor, which was an incredible experience for us as like huge Tolkien nerds. ah We had the feeling that Weta in general is is a pretty queer friendly place. Like, did you get that sort of feeling like working with them like as an actor?
Speaker: 100%. There was no question. you know I think on the first meeting in Peter's house, I think Fran came up to me and and sort was just chatting and said, oh, you know how yeah how's your love life? you Are you having a partner come into visit while you're out here? And know there so this my story was open straight away.
Speaker: um It didn't affect, I think, you know, nobody affected. I think Ian came up to me and it was really excited. I think he obviously knew that I was gay and it was like, you know, we became great friends. It just became, wasn't even an issue. It was such a really safe place for everybody. I think New Zealand is, if all of all the countries in the world is probably the most forward -thinking country, even if it is right down the bottom of the world. I had yeah tend to agree.
Speaker: Yeah, they are. that Yeah, it is ah ah very you can be who you are there. Speaking of New Zealand, are there any like favorite hots you had while you were there, like offset? Not there's a lot of delicious restaurants and coffee shops. I may even have drank Ian to the local gay bar there. Oh, but more we and we have a little I can't even remember what it was called.
Speaker: was it called The Pound? I think it was The Pound. I can't remember. went bar What was it called? Oh my gosh, that's gonna really bug me. I'm gonna have to phone up one of my New Zealand and friends and find out. If it's not called The Pound, my God, someone please open that bar. Amazing. type yeah What if it's not? That is a great name, isn't it? Exactly. Yeah, so no, we had ah yeah a lot of lovely places to to visit in lovely old Wellington. Wellington's beautiful too. It's such a like artsy city. the The couple of days we stayed there was it was definitely like more of ah an artsy kind of like an art colony as opposed to like Auckland because Auckland was very like businessman wear your suit go downtown work in a skyscraper and and like Wellington just struck me as like a college town.
Speaker: Yeah, it's very it's very arty, very bohemian, um and very windy. Very windy. Windy welly. I love that. yeah No crazy nights where anyone peed in a fountain or anything?
Speaker: ah ah god They probably were. but Maybe it was me, i who knows?
Speaker: and Maybe that's in the NDA design or something. Yeah, there'll be a few of those. and take you back up to Yeah, we 100 % had a stop at the fountain that Elijah would peed in one day.
Speaker: ah hard trip around what I know the fountain you're on about as well. This is the one with the buckets. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the most lamest fountain ever. I feel like we could call it a fountain.
Speaker: He deserved a BPN. Yeah, maybe that's why he pissed in it. He deserved it. Oh my god. He's been to Dragon Con now twice. Why have I not asked him about this fountain he pissed in? He would probably be like, why do you even know about that? You people are weird. Super weird. I mean, we are, but you know. Adam, you've been to several cons.
Speaker: Is that right? Do you get around to a lot of the these comic conventions and fan conventions? I do. I used to do a lot more before well for COVID. Before times, yeah. Yes, before those times. yeah I did a lot of and ah really love the way I can travel and visit people and also You know, it's exactly the same as doing this. Sort of, it reminds me of the time I had in New Zealand and and to keep talking about it and and to have people interested in what a special time it was is really, really, really nice. So yeah, I do do them. I don't do a lot of them, but I do do them. Oh my God, please come to Dragon Con.
Speaker: I'd love to. Yeah. Graham's been, I met Graham. We were judging a costume contest that he was emceeing. Yeah. And Dean's come as well. That's where we learned about dwarf milk.
Speaker: yeah i
Speaker: I just, I'm always like, please, please more middle -earth guests.
Speaker: I do have a question. So my background comes more from theater than doing film or anything like that. But over the the course of a production is you're inhabiting characters and and all of that. there A lot of times they're sort of like inside jokes that that you start to develop or, or you know, that sort of in fandom you call them like head cannons or whatever, ideas about characters and connections that they have that maybe aren't in the script or whatever. And I'm curious if there were any sort of like inside jokes like with the the various cast members for The Hobbit and things that you would like seed in as little details that you guys knew about but that like the audience might not have automatically known.
Speaker: so you you So you mean like actually that we're caught on camera, but that are there, that we know that there are jokes. Either that we're caught on camera or that you were trying to get caught on camera and that just wasn't the cut. ah Yeah, no, like I mean there were a lot of inside jokes. Yeah, we had a lot of time sitting around talking. There's nothing I don't know about those boys, honestly. but Even their inside leg measurements, I know everything.
Speaker: But I don't think I think we were professional enough not to have it put on screen. But, yeah, no, there were many, many, many jokes that we had and names for each other. And, yeah, lots.
Speaker: Were there any things for your characters that, you know, sort of that you were using to flesh out and, you know, the I don't know what a character like particularly likes, biscuits or something? I don't know. Like just something that that you guys were using to make everything feel extra real and lived in. I think in terms of the world around us, I mean, a lot of it was done for you with the incredible sets, you know,
Speaker: I too come from theatre where your imagination has to do so much to to to make you know a play in a black box. you know When you're in a black box and you're doing a play and you're walking along a mountain edge, you know your' you' map your brain is doing all the work and and you're telling the story with through your imagination. But really all that was done for you. ah we and We had that mountain.
Speaker: If not, it would be made the next day for you. We had yeah we had all the costumes, and those dwarf costumes, as you can imagine, you put that on, you you felt 100 % right already. you know there was no There was no getting away from it. We did six weeks bootcamp training where we learned to walk like a dwarf. and And we learned to sing, we learned to horse ride, weapon training, which was all Brilliant, but almost not needed because you put those boots on, you put that costume on, you're not running anywhere. You are you are walking like you put a big, big, arctic truck on your back. So, kind of waddling everywhere, yeah. It was done for most of that sort of imagination and extra blurring bits what were done for you. Yeah.
Speaker: I had forgotten about the singing boot camp that I've seen about it and the behind the scenes stuff. The Misty Mountains song is so iconic. It's so good. banger It's a banger. It is it is good.
Speaker: Well, I would love to know, thinking about some of these characters, we would love to know, t do you have any favorite queer, middle -earth ships? Do Are you a shipper at all?
Speaker: ah ah um that we have but and Obviously, we've got a few WhatsApp groups and they often, one of so one of the actors will surprise me with one of those images.
Speaker: There was a time when Ori and Joalyn were very close, I think. That's that's quite popular on Tumblr. yeah Is it? Wow, wow.
Speaker: and I'm not sure what Graham would think of that. Not sure either. It is to bring all of the headcanons to the actors and unless such a solicit. There's no rule about you guys not sending it to each other. and but Someone takes a screenshot of something and suddenly, what is that? I particularly like the ones where Bory is sat with his quill and his notebook.
Speaker: probably half dressed, watching Philly and Killy do their thing. Wow. Wow. ah think yeah that's That's my favorite. There we go. That's amazing. Lori the voyeur. Just silently in the corner with his quill. Oh my God.
Speaker: Oh man. Yeah. i I am the resident bag and shield flag waiver over here. And that's primarily because of the Hobbit films. It's not, it's a ship that, that came out of those films for sure. Oh, 100%. It is this a film ship.
Speaker: yeah Yeah. So yeah, there's definitely ah quite a few on Tumblr centered around many of the dwarves. And but yeah it makes me very happy to know that you guys have probably seen some of them. Yeah, um let show I'm sure we have. Good to have a little bit of a laugh. Yeah, I'm sure we have. I mean, I think it's wonderful. I think it's so fun.
Speaker: Yeah, it's one of those neat things about like being a queer consumer of media, right? Because like you are looking for such subtle things to fit yourself in, and like that chemistry between Richard and Martin is palpable.
Speaker: Yeah and it is definitely something that people pick up on. Yeah it's well I was previously unaware of Ori as a a voyeur. That's an interesting one I'm gonna look into now. Hey I'm into it, I'm into it.
Speaker: yeah
Speaker: So not necessarily related to shipping or anything, but what are your thoughts about queer representation in Tolkien adaptations and then also just media in general? How important is it, how important is holding that space? Incredibly important. We discussed, you know, my 16, less 15, 14 year old self -watching programs and um worlds where I would be up there, you know, be seen and as a version of me. So I think it's incredibly important within the Tolkien world. Yeah, I think absolutely. I mean, everyone needs to be represented in some way and not in a token way, but with real art, some real stories and real, real worlds. I think Tolkien is, you know,
Speaker: what is talking to Beth? It's loyalty, friendship, love, honor. All those things that are ah incredibly important and, you know, universal, whether but whoever you are. um So I think yeah you know people should be presented in in that ah space. yeah So yeah, I think it's incredibly important. And I think working on The Hobbit, I think having probably not intentionally at all, but having a quite queer -friendly cast was great in terms of working working on it. And but as you suggested, for an audience to be aware of that was the case. I remember back in this probably probably not even common knowledge. There we go. I'm going to give you a little insight now. is that So it would be in 2013,
Speaker: The Desolation of Smile premiere was due to happen in Russia. no And it was all set up by Warner Brothers. And I was very lucky being such a minor role, not within these great actors that to be included and my voice be heard on an email that was sent sent to Peter and Fran.
Speaker: and the producers in the notion that Warner Brothers would listen would be a voice of a select few actors saying how uncomfortable and inappropriate it was. It was, well, essentially the same as Section 28 where it would be illegal to promote um promote your queerness in a And I think the email suggested that if this premiere was going to happen, then it would be shy, lots of cast members, myself included, not turning up as a principal. And to their credit, Warner Brothers and Peter and Fran, headed by Peter and Fran, I must say, and Philippa changed that. And the Desolation of Smaug did not have their premiere in Russia.
Speaker: Wow. And it was in New York instead. Yeah. Big change. Big change to take on a giant like that. And I think the, you and in fact, before I got onto this call today, I refreshed myself and looked at the email and you know, it would do nothing for the box office to have the premiere there. Nothing to do. It would, the box office, sadly it may do a disservice to some of the fans out there.
Speaker: But what it said to the whole queer community was priceless. As if we'd have gone there and I would not be able to be on the red carpet and say I am a gay man because that would and initially be an illegal act. right I think it was incredibly important for us as a group of actors on that movie to take a stance like that. Wow.
Speaker: that. Yeah, that kind of brings me getting slightly further afield, but a year later, Russia annexed part of the Ukraine. So it's sort of like having the premiere there, like, oh, I don't know. it It just kind of makes me think about some of the further political implications sort of stemming from that and thinking about like what's going on today and Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. um As a fan, as a clear fan, it makes a tremendous difference to me to know both that that email was sent, that that message was sent and that it was listened to. But I think even more than it being listened to, the fact that you all stood on principle and stood in truth and said that this this is important, like that resonates that that makes a difference.
Speaker: going forward and going into the future. And thank you for doing that. yeah Yeah, thank you. I mean, we've we've all as actors, we probably have all all worked in countries where we don't support something that's that that country support or is illegal or something. But and to to be unable to be your authentic self. Yeah. Because at a red carpet event or at a premiere, that's not who we are as.
Speaker: performers and actors. So that's yeah that was the change. And I remember remember that email. I felt very, very honored to be included into those group of people that sent that. And to have my little voice bearing in mind, this is my first movie, Heard by Big Wigs of a studio. So ah yeah, but was a that was a moment, I think, that we were heard. Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, it is so brave to do that on like your first movie acting gig as well. Just be like, no, man, fuck that. Yeah. And it wasn't it wasn't just queer actors. It was, you know, very much people supporting queer actors. So, yeah, I can't even imagine like being an executive and knowing that you have queer people working on this property and being like, yeah, let's go to Russia. I guess a safety issue. What a strange choice to have.
Speaker: made. I'm so glad that they backed out. Yes. The choices of executives. Indeed. and Another podcast, perhaps.
Speaker: Last couple of questions here. We just wanted to talk about the future with you. What types of projects do you like working on or what do you look for in a script as you're looking at projects these days?
Speaker: I'm getting more into writing and directing at the moment. so Wonderful. I'm directing a play ah in two weeks' time. So that's been my my go -to. I am very, very lucky to know that I have had a varied career and hopefully continue it. Last year, I was in, ah like like I said, pantomime with Ian. Then I followed up in an opera National Opera. Then I'm directing a show.
Speaker: So I just want to keep it going. I don't want to get bored. So yeah. Which show are you directing soon? I am directing a pantomime. Yay. So with before Dick Whittington is one of the pantos I am directing and I've written one called Sleeping Beauty for another theatre.
Speaker: and So yeah, chris Christmas is a bit my busy time ready. My my my panto empire is taking over. Oh, that's fantastic. That's great. That's honestly like that's so much joy. Yes. Yeah. yeah So that opens in a couple of weeks. Start rehearsing a couple of weeks and then okay great be for December. yeah Fantastic. Awesome.
Speaker: Well, do you have any last words that you'd like if you want to tell folks about where to find you this Christmas and anything that you want to promote? Just keep a lookout for all my ah socials and I will um ah post what I have to do there. Can you tell us what your socials are? They are. What what are they? Brown ads. Brown ads. Brown ADS. There we are.
Speaker: And that's on all the things on a... It's set the one with the shipping stuff. Okay. it's not I don't do that one. So not Tumblr. Yeah. Completely fair. you You might want someone to go and grab that one to make sure no one can grab it. Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. Just lock that down maybe. Yeah. I'm off to...
Speaker: make my account now.
Speaker: Well, yeah, thank you. but And guys, thank you for having me on here and thank you for a well a wonderful podcast. Thank you so much. This has been a joy. Yeah, this was such a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for coming on, Adam. Pleasure. Take care, guys. ah Thank you, everyone, for joining us today. and It was such a great conversation.
Speaker: Yes. You know, it's the usual time. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, YouTube Musics, Spotify, basically anywhere that one gets a podcast from. You can also stream our episodes directly on Zencaster. That's zencaster .com slash queer lodgings, a Tolkien podcast with the hyphens in between all of those words.
Speaker: where possible, please leave us a rating and ah like share and subscribe. You can find us on Facebook at queer lodgings, at ah Twitter at queer underscore lodgings. We're also on blue sky as queer lodgings. And if you have any feedback or episode ideas, you can send us an email at queer lodgings podcast at gmail .com and visit our website queer lodgings .com.
Speaker: We have transcripts and we have merch and we have links to lots of resources. Alicia's done a ton of work on the website. So please check it out. It's very cool. It is so cool. Thank you. Thanks. Bye.
Speaker: Guys, are you back now? You're back now. Oh, are you back now? You can hear us? It went funny. um if this If this continues, I'll move downstairs next to our router. Just like sit on top of the router. I will. ah i That's how dedicated I am for you. I will mount the router. Wow. that If that helps.
