Transcript
Kate Rumsey: Welcome back to Mission Texas. Our next guest is Angel Carroll, my friend, who unfortunately, we're going to talk about this, was arrested at the Texas Capitol during the redistricting protest. You may remember that. And after spending her career fighting for criminal justice reform and running for the Texas House, she's now suing our governor, Greg Abbott, for banning her from that building.
Kate Rumsey: Can't believe that that's happening, Angel. i want to get into that and more. Welcome to the podcast.
Angel Carroll: Thank you. Thank you. Yes. 2026. You can be banned from the state capital. Imagine that.
Kate Rumsey: I know. i mean, look, that's the place where you were trying to work and now you're banned from that capital. And I, before we get into that arrest and everything that led up to that, i think it's important, as I mentioned, to kind of contextualize it because I can imagine the thoughts and feelings that you're having in that moment while you're being arrested is informed by the body of your career and life. So can we get into that? Like what got you to that place and tell us a little bit about your race.
Angel Carroll: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, i started showing up to the state Capitol during legislative sessions to advocate for dual status youth. So those are youth that were in the foster care system and then have a legal system involvement.
Angel Carroll: I mean, I was first arrested in Texas at age 10, was put in a youth prison because there were no foster homes for me, despite not even being convicted of a crime. i mean, our system, or it's broken. And so that is what I have have dedicated my life to.
Kate Rumsey: Right.
Angel Carroll: So I'm very familiar with that building, this work, and the detainment, right, of Black and brown bodies in this state on multiple levels. so hearing while we're fighting for our voting rights, And then they have now locked a sitting state representative in the chamber because she refuses to be surveilled by DPS agents.
Angel Carroll: We just called everybody and said, hey, we've got to show up to this building and let people know that we have eyes on her and that we are not backing down. And what Republicans are doing is not OK.
Angel Carroll: And like I said, I got arrested. I know that was the house that my ancestors built, were forced to build, right? and spent six hours in in county jail. And I'll add that it was a waste of resources because they printed our ticket out in the lawn and then we sat in the trooper car for about an hour and a half before they finally decided to take us.
Angel Carroll: And our charges were later rejected, meaning that we were found not to have committed any crime of trespassing. And yet, the State Preservation Board continues to uphold a ban of the Capitol complex, which it's more than just I think you know people here Oh you're not allowed to go to the Capitol building right but it's the Capitol complex, so my ticket actually says it's somewhere on my bookshelf. that I'm not allowed on the grass, the driveway, and there's actually three other women that were arrested. I do wanna name, Jessica Cohen, Megan Toohey, and Jill Van Voorhis, who were arrested with me, my fellow jailbirds. We're not allowed on the grass, the parking lot, the driveway. i mean, I can't go to the Bob Bullock Museum, the Supreme Court building where actually do work, because I'm on the Judicial Commission on Mental Health. So that also has impacted my ability to work. But a lot of folks in Austin, that is where their state representative's office are because they don't have, they're so close to the state capitol, they can't, there's no reason for them to have an additional office out in the community. So now we can't even go talk to our state reps or even show up during the special legislative session. So,
Angel Carroll: I think it's it's important for us to fight back. There's no avenue even for appeal, right? So what happened to due process in this state? That lawsuit really is fighting for the infringement of our first and 14th Amendment rights.
Alexander Clark: Well, the problem, the the mistake you made, unfortunately, was daring to use your first and 14th Amendment rights as a Democrat.
Angel Carroll: Right?
Alexander Clark: Because if you were if you were a Republican and you stormed the the the U.S. Capitol, you'd be getting some compensation, apparently.
Kate Rumsey: $1.6 billion dollars or whatever.
Angel Carroll: Yeah.
Alexander Clark: I think it's one point seven, seven, six billion dollars because they wanted it to be cute and do a 1776
Angel Carroll: here
Kate Rumsey: Lord.
Angel Carroll: Man, and fun fact, i actually taught in the D.C.
Kate Rumsey: Okay.
Angel Carroll: jail, the FBOP, and worked with the J6ers. So like should have taken some notes. Right. And been like, how could I have gotten around this? But no, it's it really is insane.
Angel Carroll: And, i'm i'm really fortunate and thankful for Senator Molly Cook, who made sure that her staff were there as legal observers throughout the process. We were released at 6 a.m. and her staff.
Angel Carroll: made sure that I got home and got my car and then Senator Eckhart who bailed us out. So there's just a group of phenomenal Dems that continue to fight with us in the Austin.
Alexander Clark: We should say Democratic nominee for comptroller, Senator Eckhart.
Angel Carroll: Yes, earlierer one of the most, I would say the most flippable seat on the state, the ballot.
Kate Rumsey: And yeah, Dawn Huffines and future guest.
Angel Carroll: Yeah.
Kate Rumsey: So we're excited to have her. I want to ask her about that. But Angel, I mean, can you tell us or remind us? Because it feels like we're drinking from a fire hose sometimes with what's going on then in the news. And just a week will go by and I'll forget something that happened.
Angel Carroll: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kate Rumsey: And last week, I forgot that Matt Gaetz was a nominee for AG at one point. So yeah, roll our eyes. Can you remind us what led to Nicole Collier, right, to be at the Capitol and how DPS was surveilling our state reps?
Alexander Clark: you
Angel Carroll: we had our legislative session. And for those that may not know, the governor has the ability to call a special session and he gets to choose the agenda. and that's outside the fact that we only have a legislative session every two years. However, we have one of the largest GDPs. and We could be our own country, right, in this global economy and market. And and so during that special session, he called for the legislature to redistricting.
Angel Carroll: And as we're seeing it, they are redistricting and gerrymandering maps to give an unfair advantage, not just to Republicans, but to to remove representation primarily, right, and particularly for low income and black and brown districts and to take away that political power. And so our Democrats utilized a strategy that they've done before, which is breaking quorum and they fled to Chicago, Illinois, and they had warrants out for the rest of fines, it was very much in the news of what what was going to happen to them right and they they they did that at great risk, and so there came a point where they came back and so. As they came back, there were a few people that came to the state capitol some decided not to i think seven folks actually stayed behind in Chicago. At their own at at the cost of they're they paid their way just because they knew that their districts were going to be affected the most by this. And those that came back had to sign a slip to leave the house floor and the building that said that they would be followed by DPS agents to ensure that they came back the next day. And however many days was going to take before that vote to pass the maps, happened. And so i think it was like maybe two or three days that it took. And so every, every Democrat that came back signed, except representative Nicole Collier. and they would not let her leave the floor. I mean, I was at one point I was able to send snacks. I think I sent a doctor a Diet Coke and Oreos because those were her favorite snacks in a note just saying like we stand with you. But as the day progressed, they would not let notes be sent on the floor, which you're typically allowed to do Myself, a reporter from the New York Times in the San Antonio Express, we were in the gallery and we were kicked out actually around noon, which is also unusual to happen as well. So there was there's a lot of shifty and shady business going on that night.
Kate Rumsey: Well, can you tell us then about, like, just step us through that protest? Like, put us in Capitol, then, like, what happened next? Like, how were you then arrested? arrested
Angel Carroll: Yeah, so but Noon we were removed from the floor, we decided we're just going stay outside and just kind of monitor things, right?
Angel Carroll: And in our head, I don't know I think there was a moment where we were like, surely they're not going to make her spend the night here, right? There's going to be some so some sort of resolve. So we didn't really start sounding the alarm just yet till it got later in the evening, five, six, and we're like, oh, like they're really going to make her sleep on the floor, right? And so, it was, it was a mixed effort between Megan Tui, Pooja Sethi, who's, excuse me, a state representative elect. She's, filling into her old boss, uh, Vicki Goodwin seat. She was currently the chair of the Travis County democratic party. So they put out a bat signal and we just asked people to show up.
Angel Carroll: Right. When we talk about organizing, yes, sometimes there's a larger strategy and in media. And at this point it was just like, Hey, grab your friends, bring snacks. We're showing up. And so,
Angel Carroll: It got to about 50 people. I mean, it was pretty large and we were chanting, a news started coming and it just grew. i don't i don't know how else to like describe it. It really was grassroots, like show up. We had, the Senate was still in session. So we had Senator West, Gutierrez, Molly Cook, Sarah Eckhart, who would come and check on us occasionally, ask if we needed anything and Senator Eckhart at one point, cause a lot of us started talking about, okay, they're saying that they're going to close the building at 10, 10 rolled around and it was like, well, Senate's still in session so you all can stay until then. and so what happens if we decide not to leave, right? And this is a safety plan when you're protesting, right? If if if an arrest happens, what is the plan? Who is your emergency contact? And so
Angel Carroll: that again those conversations didn't start happening till later into the night and sarah eckhart senator eckhart came out and she gave this phenomenal speech if you all have not heard her speak oh my goodness like her energy her passion is there but let me tell you something she could have been a pied piper she could have been like we're gonna do this and jump right right off a cliff and scream like democracy go democracy and i think like myself probably i would have done that too I mean, she gave a very compelling like, look, what y'all are doing is great.
Angel Carroll: We're going to be closing pretty soon. We're going to march down these stairs, down the lawn, chanting X, Y and Z. And we're goingnna come back tomorrow and do this again. and i was actually fully prepared to do that.
Angel Carroll: However, by the time she ended, literally, i remember I grabbed my bag and something within me was like, you're not going anywhere. Like you cannot leave.
Kate Rumsey: Wow.
Angel Carroll: There's a black woman in that building, in that room, but they won't even let Texas senators go in and make sure she's okay. No, this is not okay.
Angel Carroll: And so oh i remember I put my bag down and I looked at Megan and I said, yeah, i can't I can't go anywhere.
Alexander Clark: Right.
Angel Carroll: And a lot of people didn't know we had been arrested because everyone had already left. But I wouldn't, I don't know y'all heard people talk about like that moment where you get heavy and you can't move. Like that is quite literally what happened. And so Megan was like, excuse my friend's like, fuck it. Like, let's do it. Right. And Jill was like, well, Angel, I can't let you, what i mean? I can't let you.
Angel Carroll: go alone. And Jessica too, but it's like, I'm going to stay. And I mean, Jessica, Jessica is a trans woman. I was like, you of all people cannot do this. Right. I knew what that moment meant and what we were, if we were arrested.
Angel Carroll: and then if we went to jail, right. If they went more than the ticket, which they did, we know the experiences of trans women, especially in Texas and how dangerous that is. She was like, no, I can't let you, can't let you go. And so by this point it went from,
Angel Carroll: maybe like five or six state troopers to 30. There's a video on my Instagram where like you see them just all around and we're like, you don't need this many like state troopers for three, four women, right? And so Senator Cook, the photos of us arrested, she's right next to us and she's, just like kind of like, hey, like,
Angel Carroll: Let me get the information, my staff get the information for your family so we can make sure they're okay. I love her. She's like, if you wanna make it difficult for them, sit down on the ground. And so I'm like, okay, right?
Angel Carroll: And then also just, know, the encouragement of just like, don't resist. And I mean, that was, there was just so, so many things there, right? Because again, it's, it's 30 cops or 30 troopers. One of them, the lead trooper is very agitated and like very, he was combative. I mean, he was just like terrible. And I actually felt bad for the arresting officers because they were, one, they were young. I remember the one that handcuffed and I ended up giving me my ticket.
Angel Carroll: We both grew up in Georgetown, Texas together. We know the same people like having this right. But like, he's literally shaking. So there's a moment, and I think I posted it where I'm saying, I'm not resisting. I'm not resisting. And I said that because they were shaking and he kept dropping my hands.
Angel Carroll: And I wanted it to be known and said, because this is what it's like, especially for black folks dealing with the police when you're getting arrested, right. Or having an engagement. I want you to know I am not resisting. I'm not dropping my hands because I'm trying to assault you or trying to run away.
Angel Carroll: he was just so doggone scared.
Kate Rumsey: Hmm. Yeah.
Angel Carroll: He couldn't get it together. and so, but we later found out during our press conference a couple weeks ago that they did not want to do it, that they did not want to arrest us. They thought that it was a gross misstep, but We don't know, and I'm sure during discovery we'll find out who, but there was an order to arrest us and book us that night.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah, I mean, I just want to put myself in your shoes as someone who's been an advocate in criminal justice. You've also, as I've read and researched more about you, about like your involvement in mental health and the advocacy there and all the work that you did as a young person and just like the having maybe an out-of-body experience being arrested and also just hearing you humanize the officer who's arresting you that they're nervous in this moment and maybe not wanting to do it. So I'm just curious, like then what happened next and were you, was there anything surprising about the process of being arrested and going to a jail based on that history?
Angel Carroll: i could recognize he didn't want to do it and he had a job to do. and I think that again, as you said, like I've so i've been on both sides. I've been the person that my first interaction in the detention facility was at 10 years old. And then I've worked in, taught in a facility as well. So I see the both sides. It was traumatic to say the least. i joke and say it was the first time i was arrested for something I actually did.
Angel Carroll: But after when we got out, I did actually call the sheriff, Travis County sheriff and the the district attorney and and said your officers in the facility were actually great. They treated us with with respect. They literally were like, this is stupid.
Angel Carroll: Like everyone knew that it was, it was a waste of resources. There were real things that were going on
Kate Rumsey: Did you get that recorded for your lawsuit?
Angel Carroll: Right. I wish. now
Kate Rumsey: ha
Angel Carroll: No, but, it was traumatic. I mean, and there was a moment during the six hours where, we were kind of joking and just trying to like lighten the moment, but I went silent and they're like Angel, are you good? And like I said, it was, it was, it was traumatic. I, I experienced a lot of abuse and,
Angel Carroll: the facilities that they had placed me in again, like this, i'm I'm talking about because I had juvenile justice experience, there's not an emergency shelter. So I'm in a detention facility in Mejia, Texas, in Lubbock, Texas for 60, 90 days. One of the facilities, that was a TYC facility in San Antonio. i mean Anybody that knows what TYC is, that's Texas Youth Commission. That is the the prison system. And they were shut down because of the gross of abuse that was going on, right? I was in a system where, our government was trafficking us.
Angel Carroll: And so, and you you couldn't tell anybody because who who were you gonna tell? The people that were doing it. And then they would always tell us, right? I never forget one day actually at 15 years old, there was an investigation, something had happened to a young girl and we went down the elevators to go meet with them. And the officer, the supervising officer said, you can tell them whatever you want, but just know at the end of the day, you gotta come back up these stairs.
Alexander Clark: sorry that you had that experience and it just, I'm just sitting with it like is so grossly unfair and but i mean, I was kind of joking before, but really the, the gross disparity in, in the reaction between like the January Sixers and, and yourself is just the hypocrisy is just so palpable.
Angel Carroll: Yeah, no, it is.
Kate Rumsey: right.
Angel Carroll: And, I've turned it, it its and it was an opportunity one to to get my story and other people's stories out there and conversation for another day. But, they had so much privilege in the D.C.
Angel Carroll: jail, right? No one ever cared about conditions and lack of resources in our, our, prison facilities and jails until they came in and started pointing out these discrepancies.
Angel Carroll: It's really sad as
Kate Rumsey: Yeah, you're right to point out that.
Angel Carroll: well. Federal facility, which is illegal, but
Alexander Clark: So you're telling me no one came to record you as a part of a choir
Angel Carroll: Nope. No one can record by any means.
Alexander Clark: and
Angel Carroll: I mean, they were allowed to get, they they almost, it ended up getting shut down, but like they were getting really close, had it approved to turn the library and into an opportunity for them to do discovery.
Angel Carroll: So like, they were like, we, they have a right, right? To to be their own represent legal representation where they were getting ready to let them on Facebook. So so they go through Facebook posts and find discovery on themselves.
Angel Carroll: And then that would mean that everyone else in that facility would not have access to the library. And that's where the school was, where I was at. Just resources. It was it was crazy. Yeah.
Alexander Clark: Sounds about white.
Angel Carroll: yeah sounds i like You said it.
Alexander Clark: God almighty.
Kate Rumsey: Well, can you then tell us about this lawsuit? I mean, I can understand, as you're saying, due process, right? I can't imagine you're arrested. The charges are dropped. And yet still you're banned without due process, without any recourse from a building that I believe you as a citizen of Texas have a right to be at. So tell us what brought you to this lawsuit and where it's at right now.
Angel Carroll: we're we're banned for a year. we'll come back, we'll be able to go back to the state capitol in August, but that's not the point, right? As you mentioned, that is the people's house.
Angel Carroll: We are banned and there's no avenue for a appeal. that. Brian McGovern with the Austin Community Law Center reached out to us and said, hey, we've been following this.
Alexander Clark: I know Brian.
Angel Carroll: Yes, love Brian, he's amazing. He reached out and said, hey, wanna represent you all if y'all are open to it. I think this is a gross overreach. And we were like, yeah, let's let's do it. It was really as simple as that. We submitted all of our documentation and how that night went for us and how it's affected us. and Three weeks ago, we were in Austin at the federal courthouse steps where we announced that federal civil rights lawsuit for the infringement of our first and 14th Amendment rights. And everyone that is listed is on the state preservation board because they they oversee the building. and access. So that's Governor Greg Abbott, Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick, Dustin Burroughs is the Speaker, Charles Schwartner, who's my former Senator. We both are from Georgetown. So that was really nice. And then there are two civilians that are on that. And so we are suing them in their capacity on the board, not
Angel Carroll: individually, right, for those those folks. Although I would love to sue the others personally, but yeah.
Kate Rumsey: Adam, yeah.
Angel Carroll: So, the last two weeks, how I understand it, they will have, they'll be served, right? excuse me, and they'll have an opportunity to respond.
Angel Carroll: And so we fully expect that they will try and get it dismissed. But what I've been told, it's a really good, I'm not a legal expert by any means, right?
Angel Carroll: I'm not a lawyer, but how I understand it, this district, the Western District, like a lot of good rulings come out of that. So it's no surprise that they're going to try and get it removed, but it likely won't, is how I understand it.
Angel Carroll: because they are going to want to block discovery.
Kate Rumsey: Thank you.
Angel Carroll: And then discovery is where I think we'll find quite a few things of who made that order, what was the reasoning. And then again, there's no due process. You can't ban someone from a building and then say like, because let me back up.
Angel Carroll: Our charges were rejected, meaning it's it never happened per se, right? Like we were not convicted of a crime or even charged with a crime because The county DA a said, yeah, no, I'm not accepting this.
Angel Carroll: So it really makes no sense that they are choosing to uphold that. And we're not a danger to anyone either. Snowflakes is what I'll say.
Alexander Clark: Yeah.
Angel Carroll: okay.
Alexander Clark: So I'm a former Western District of Texas law clerk for Judge Yackel before he retired.
Angel Carroll: okay
Alexander Clark: So now that he's out and we actually, I think we learned that Judge Albright is also retiring, but going back to the public private sector. It should just be Judge Pittman left at the Western District.
Alexander Clark: Is that right?
Angel Carroll: That name very familiar.
Alexander Clark: see that the Yeah, that should be the judge presiding over your case. And then, yeah, you you you nailed it on the head. They have time to answer is is the the legal term. And they're going to answer and they're probably going to try move to dismiss the case based on probably some technical argument, right? They'll say that you don't have standing or they're protected by sovereign immunity, which means you can't sue the government under certain circumstances. Or they'll say that, there's not really a cognizable harm here. And they'll come up with some sort of way to say, even if what we did is bad,
Alexander Clark: Who cares?
Angel Carroll: It's Texas.
Kate Rumsey: Right.
Kate Rumsey: Well, yeah.
Angel Carroll: I can do whatever I want.
Alexander Clark: But we'll see what that we'll see what they come up with, what what arguments are they'll make with a straight face. We'll see.
Kate Rumsey: Well, I wonder, just as a lawyer, I know Alice and are lawyers, so we like to dive into this stuff, but I wonder if the way that they've gotten away with this kind of thing is that if the... ban is only a year, then you only have a year to really bring any sort of lawsuit, at which point we have a term in the legal community is now it's moot, right?
Kate Rumsey: You're welcome back.
Alexander Clark: Yeah.
Kate Rumsey: So you're not really harmed. But I think that this isn't just about past harms, if I'm understanding this, it's about the future and what it means for other people in your position.
Alexander Clark: yeah
Kate Rumsey: So what do you Yes, this is about the redress for you, Angel, and the other two women with you. But what do you think about this going forward for other people? And and also, the broader picture of what's going on in the other things that Republicans are doing to limit our rights, to to take away our limit and dilute our vote, and to preserve power at all costs.
Angel Carroll: Absolutely, right? Like this is so much bigger than the four of us that were arrested and three of us in this lawsuit, right? It is to prevent future harm. This is the steps, right? There's so many things that when I think about how we even got to this moment to the racist maps that they passed last year, but then 2021 to roll us back into time into a time where we have lit tests, litmus tests on who you can vote in. We don't want women, right? We don't want brown and black folks. We don't want members of the LGBTQ plus community to be represented in the halls of of government. And so if they can do it to us, they can do it to anybody, right? The Alabama speaker literally said about a month ago, my next goal is to roll back the 14th amendment, right? Which,
Angel Carroll: it's Like boldly on TV, right? Due process, birthright citizenship. what I keep saying, what are we doing? Right? like And I'm like, I know what we're doing.
Angel Carroll: They're trying to make quote unquote America great again and take us back into damn near the stone ages. It's ludicrous.
Alexander Clark: Well, it's a little nose like on the nose to be like from a former Confederate state saying, let's get rid of the civil right like amendments that came out of the Civil War.
Angel Carroll: Yes, on in and right like in Alabama at the Capitol of Montgomery, the capital, the former capital of the Confederacy. Like hey it's not lost on me.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Angel Carroll: And so, yeah, it's it's so much bigger.
Alexander Clark: Yeah.
Angel Carroll: it's It's so much larger than ourself and we're not the first. And unfortunately, I don't know that we'll be the last, but I'm not gonna take it sitting down by any means.
Alexander Clark: You know, kate Kate and I are not your lawyers and you're not our client, but she her point about moodness is is an interesting one. It makes me wonder, maybe there ought to be some sort of like a TRO injunction effort because you said it's currently affecting your your ability to do work, right?
Angel Carroll: Yeah. le Yeah. Like I said, I'm i'm on this commission, this collaborative council, and not all of our meetings are virtual. Some of them are in person. I can't show up. I mean, you're talking about like, I got to be thoughtful when I'm walking around downtown because I don't, there's so many buildings that are a part of that capital complex.
Alexander Clark: yeah
Angel Carroll: And they could just decide to, arrest me.
Alexander Clark: Because because to to Kate's point, there's there's no way this lawsuit will resolve and in in a year.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Angel Carroll: In a year. In year.
Alexander Clark: Yeah, there just won't. Just like the normal process of things, it just won't.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Alexander Clark: But if you got some sort of early temporary restraining order and an injunction that says, during dependency of this lawsuit, Angel has the right to go to work.
Angel Carroll: I
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Alexander Clark: That might be a symbolic victory that...
Kate Rumsey: yeah Go talk to Brian about that.
Alexander Clark: yeah and Just legal information, not advice, right?
Kate Rumsey: Well, I wanted to
Angel Carroll: appreciate it.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah, for our listeners as well, if you have need emergency relief.
Angel Carroll: Yep.
Alexander Clark: That's right.
Kate Rumsey: so But I wanted to tie all these things together because it seems to me we got here because Republicans did mid-census redistricting. Right. And then you guys are protesting the effects of that.
Kate Rumsey: And now they're saying, na you can't do that.
Angel Carroll: Yep.
Kate Rumsey: And so they're saying, I want to do something that is probably illegal, but the Supreme Court probably will let me do it anyways. And then now that we are now protesting it or saying what you're doing is wrong, we're not going to let you do that either.
Kate Rumsey: And so it just It's maddening and I have such anger for myself and other Texans and you because of this. And it just, it's like what the Republicans to me, it seems like they're only winning because of these sort of gotcha procedural things. They are not standing on policy. They're not standing on what they're providing to our communities. We're not better off in the last 30 years. And yet what are they clinging to so hard that they need to ban Angel Carroll from from capital for a year? And for what point? Like, what what do they need to be doing? I mean, how do you reflect on that in this like bigger picture and fight that we have?
Angel Carroll: I mean, you said it, they they can't have any wins without cheating. They lie, steal, lie, steal, cheat, and destroy. That is what the Republican Party is damn good at right now.
Angel Carroll: And it's it's it's a really sad moment where we are. Kate,
Angel Carroll: kate i don't, I just, I can't wrap my head.
Kate Rumsey: Are you tired?
Angel Carroll: Yeah.
Kate Rumsey: I mean, how do you have hope and fight for this? Because like gearing up for a lawsuit is not a is not an easy thing, right? Like I know you said it was as easy as talking to Brian, but it really isn't.
Kate Rumsey: And I want to give you more credit because as a litigator and someone who fights in federal courts all the time and also was a federal law clerk like this takes a lot to be able to gear up for. So how do you gear up for that fight?
Kate Rumsey: How do you still have hope?
Angel Carroll: i credit, I guess a lot of my resilience to my childhood on what I've been through. Right. And i always feel like i've I've been through far worse.
Angel Carroll: So if I can make this far, I can make it, keep going. it was i will say it wasn't until the day of when we were getting ready to announce the lawsuit that it actually hit me like oh well like you're actually doing this right because we know that republicans especially dan patrick and abbott are very vindictive so there's no telling what what uh recourse is coming my way and the weird things that will happen in my life right because we know that's a very that's very real here
Kate Rumsey: Endorsed,
Alexander Clark: Well, and now also Trump nominated Ken Paxton.
Kate Rumsey: endorsed yeah
Alexander Clark: Oh, sorry. Yeah. yeah madam
Alexander Clark: It'll have the same effect, Kate. He's he's basically he's basically in the Senate now.
Angel Carroll: Right?
Kate Rumsey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's basically the nominee, yeah.
Alexander Clark: I said the Senate nomination is his.
Angel Carroll: No, I think, I don't know. I guess maybe I've disassociated from it, to be honest. like I've been through worse. I kind of just see this as another ploy by white supremacist, like in white supremacy culture. And what other choice do I have?
Angel Carroll: There are people that died for my right to vote. There are people that died for my constitutional rights.
Angel Carroll: The least I can do is protest when they are being infringed on. The least I could do is protest when they are trying to take away our ability to to vote.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Angel Carroll: The least I can do is fight for the right to practice due process. That's the least I can do. so yeah, it's scary. Yeah, it's stressful. But again, there are people that have died, bled, been beaten for this. That's the least I can do.
Kate Rumsey: Well, it's a apropos of this moment because this episode will come out the week after Memorial Day. And this is a time where we remember the people who swore an oath to our Constitution. and I was talking to some people last night at an event that we swear an oath as veterans, as former service members to the Constitution. We don't swear it to to the president, or or at least as officers, to the president, to a party, to a position, we swear to that constitution.
Angel Carroll: I
Kate Rumsey: And I would i would give up my life for that thing, a piece of paper that embodies our democracy and people have. And it's so I love what I'm hearing from you about that because I think that I feel similarly in that why am i still in Texas, right?
Kate Rumsey: Like why am I still allowing my daughter to be raised here? And it's because I'm going to continue to fight for the state and fight for our people, fight for our daughters and sons. And so I feel very similarly.
Kate Rumsey: But.
Alexander Clark: Yeah.
Kate Rumsey: Hmm.
Alexander Clark: And beto makes Beto O'Rourke makes a good point that like, in addition to people who serve in uniform, like the people who bled and died in the civil rights movement and, continuing to put their lives on the line in very real material ways.
Alexander Clark: I mean, they they also are fighting for that constitution making the dream of America real, right?
Kate Rumsey: Yep.
Alexander Clark: The promise, that beloved community Dr. King used to speak about.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah. Well, speaking of Angel, can we segue to your trip to Alabama recently to the protests?
Angel Carroll: Yeah.
Kate Rumsey: So tell us about the protest and also what what was your experience down there in Alabama? And I want to talk a little bit about afterwards of my love for that, that area as well.
Angel Carroll: Yeah. So myself and a few other Texans and content creators, we heard about all roads to the leads all roads lead to the South in Montgomery, Alabama to fight for voting rights as we're seeing.
Angel Carroll: what started in Texas, right? And then m what we're seeing in Louisiana and Tennessee and just Virginia across, across this country to show up to the birthplace of, the civil rights fight to the the birthplace of democracy.
Angel Carroll: Montgomery is the former capital, former capital of the Confederacy, right?
Kate Rumsey: Mm-hmm.
Angel Carroll: It started there. and so, It was a profound experience that we were only there. we weren't even there for 72 hours. We drove. So I've got to go back and really take it all in. But my, my, my goodness, the drive to Montgomery felt like a pilgrimage, right? So going from Texas to Louisiana and,
Angel Carroll: driving over ri swamps and seeing plantations and thinking how resilient runaway slaves were and the fear, right and the real fear like, you are wading through crocodile infested waters, but it's worth, freedom is worth the risk.
Angel Carroll: And then getting to Mississippi and
Kate Rumsey: Mm hmm.
Angel Carroll: And I've never actually been through Mississippi, but my great great grandfather, father, Johnny Grays bought 114 acres in 1911 from his former slave master's wife. We did not get that 40 acres in a mule, but he bought it and it's still in our family. So it was a sense of pride for me to come back to to a space where my ancestors right built built their lives after being freed. But as a group saying, okay, after we've taken the sign at the border, right, like so many Black folks during Jim Crow South who said, we're not going to stop in this state because of the real risk of lynching and and racism. And so we didn't. And we didn't stop until we got to Africatown, Alabama, which is just south of mobile mobile Mobile, right?
Angel Carroll: And
Kate Rumsey: Mm.
Angel Carroll: That was, was that Africatown was founded by 32 formally enslaved, formally enslaved, and they were on the ship, the Clotilda, where they were illegally smuggled, right, after the transatlantic slave was supposed to to stop, and it didn't. And just so much history and then getting to Selma and walking the bridge and realizing that that drive, that 45 minute drive from Montgomery to Selma was long.
Angel Carroll: They walked in kitten heels and suits.
Kate Rumsey: walked it yeah
Angel Carroll: That was not easy. And again, going back to what I said earlier, how could we not fight? And then just how intentional the landscape is and the fact that Alabama prisons and the Capitol is bright white. It is a sterile white for a reason.
Angel Carroll: and it faces Dexter Avenue and the Dexter Avenue. I think it's Dexter Avenue Baptist Martin. I'm a screw up the name. So God, please forgive me. But the church where Dr. King pastored and is now a memorial church faces the Capitol.
Angel Carroll: But right between that street is a fountain, right? Where slaves would be taken off of the ship, off that river, onto the ship and put on that fountain is stands on a block.
Angel Carroll: And that was the block that they would sell slaves on facing the Alabama state Capitol. And then across the street from that is a statue of Rosa Parks because that is where she got arrested.
Angel Carroll: I mean, there's just so much history. So how could how how can we not fight in The fact that they had it in Montgomery is just, it was beautiful.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Angel Carroll: A beautiful tribute to from where we've been where we are and where we're going.
Kate Rumsey: Right.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah. Well, I wanted to mention, sorry, Alex, that I spent a lot of time in Montgomery because of the Air Force and I'm proud that they brought an Air Force base there.
Alexander Clark: ahead.
Alexander Clark: well
Kate Rumsey: And they, that, that's where I had my training. That's where I had my JAG school training. And we had passes where we would get get to do whatever we want. Some people went to Atlanta or to the beach. And my friends and I did the trek from Montgomery to Selma and saw the bridge. And we stopped at all the museums. And yeah, it's a long haul. And to also...
Kate Rumsey: see that there are museums from the national federal government that are there and celebrating and memorializing this trek and to know that this is such an important part of our history.
Kate Rumsey: But just thinking about what we're dealing with now compared to that and what all that might have meant in that moment. But I agree. I really enjoyed my time learning about that in Alabama and being there.
Kate Rumsey: But sorry, Alex, I think I interrupted you.
Alexander Clark: Yeah, I was i was just going to mention that when my wife went to SMU, she was able to participate in something they called the civil rights pilgrimage. And i actually really appreciate the kind of phrasing there.
Alexander Clark: It's intentional. It kind of connotes the kind of sacredness, the kind of almost religious aspect of it because it at its core,
Angel Carroll: Yes. Yep.
Alexander Clark: Right. Like Dr. King and so many of the other leaders were religious leaders. They were they were people of faith. And just being able to go to I just looked it up some of the places that they got to go to, Little Rock, Arkansas, Jackson, Mississippi, Selma and Montgomery, Alabama, Birmingham, Oxford, Mississippi, Memphis, Tennessee, like all these.
Alexander Clark: really pivotal moments in not just black history, but like American history.
Angel Carroll: Yes. Yes.
Alexander Clark: And in a way, like the history of the world, like the the human race was made so much better.
Angel Carroll: yes
Kate Rumsey: Right.
Alexander Clark: we got so much further along because of the sacrifices those people made, not only for the Civil Rights Act, but for the Voting Rights Act. And to see the kind of intentional years long efforts to roll back those protections, and including now recently with the Kalei decision, it's just It's so disheartening to realize that not everyone agrees that that was a good period in our history. I know it's still faux pas to bring up Charlie Kirk, but he he did not think that Martin Luther King was a person worth celebrating, and he he didn't think the Civil Rights Movement was a a net positive for for humanity. and
Angel Carroll: Or that it happened, right? or
Alexander Clark: Right?
Angel Carroll: Or that it happened. And that was the most like frustrating thing too, is seeing the comments that I got of like, what rights are they taking away? And then just pointing it out like y'all, right? The black people, y'all are just making this up. And it's just like, this is also why they're trying to take away education. because there's so much growing up in Texas, right? That they don't tell us about our own history. Now you're watching, you're seeing this.
Angel Carroll: And then the reminder that this wasn't that long ago. Truly,
Alexander Clark: Yeah. and And women were being hysterical about Roe v. Wade being overturned too, until it was.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Angel Carroll: truly. I mean, Joseph Smith was the mayor of Selma on Bloody Sunday, and he only got removed from office in 2000, in the year 2000. Like that like that is very recent.
Angel Carroll: There are very, Kate, you mentioned the museums. We went to the lynching museum and saw every county in Texas has a pillar. And it was just so powerful in seeing the number of lynchings that happen in one day in Brazos County, Texas, to see Williamson County, Dallas County, Harris County, to see that And that some of those dates were 1911, right?
Angel Carroll: like it was not that long ago. And i mean, we watched the news, there are still people getting lynched today. it's just a matter of, is it a lynching that we're going to acknowledge?
Angel Carroll: Or is it just, and it's just,
Kate Rumsey: Something else.
Alexander Clark: yeah and to that point, Sherman, Texas has the oldest Confederate monument. I know, Kate, I mention Sherman all the time, but it's it's a relevant place.
Kate Rumsey: You do. i love it. Yeah.
Alexander Clark: Sherman, Texas has the oldest Confederate monument, and it's on the courthouse grounds. And that has never sat right with me.
Kate Rumsey: Mm-hmm.
Alexander Clark: like It's on postcards from that era. People... like and whether it was like a a fascination because it was just so dark or because they were celebrating it. I don't, I can't say, but,
Alexander Clark: I bring it up because right after the Dylann roof, you know mass shooting at the church, i I remember I started, I think it was like a change.org one of those petition websites.
Angel Carroll: Arsene.
Alexander Clark: I had just started in the air force reserve and I was like in Intel school and i put up this petition, like we should move the, the Confederate monument off of the courthouse steps.
Alexander Clark: We, you know, this should not be the first thing somebody should be seeing as they're walking in to try to find justice. you would have thought, man, peed in somebody's Cheerios because i like, it's, it, it rattled the, the hornet's nest of white supremacists in, in Sherman.
Angel Carroll: ason
Alexander Clark: And people were like, he should never come back here.
Kate Rumsey: Oh, well.
Alexander Clark: know, I was like, I was sued by president of Sherman high school in Austin college. Like Sherman is my place. I love that place. and,
Kate Rumsey: We know, Alex, yes.
Angel Carroll: You were about to be banned. Wow. Wow.
Alexander Clark: No, I'm telling you, I think there might have been an effort to get me banned from Sherman.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Kate Rumsey: Wow. Well, just wanted to make two follow-up comments. One about the whitewashing of history. I remember when I was in officer school, we made a point to go to the Tuskegee Airmen Museum, which is nearby. And that was amazing. But also just seeing how much the current secretary of war is trying to erase some of that history in our own Air Force and how much we have to keep remembering it. And I'm glad that at least in my officer's school, we made a point to go to that.
Kate Rumsey: But also, I lived in Virginia for four years while my husband was in the Army. And we were there right in Charlottesville, right after the tiki torches, if you remember. And that was over the Confederate statues that were sitting at the steps of the state courthouse, similar to what y'all are saying, and just the aftereffects of what that town went through in central Virginia.
Alexander Clark: I
Kate Rumsey: But I mean, before we head into our last segments, I mean, can you tell us about like what How was the protest? How was the what how how how are the vibes? what are the takeaways? What are the marching orders?
Angel Carroll: Yeah, the vibes were great. It was hot. All the concrete. But the vibes were great. We had folks. We had folks in the audience and speakers who marched on Bloody Sunday there. You had. I'm a cusper. you had We had Gen Zers there, right? So, like, it was truly, I feel like, representative of different generations and backgrounds, which was beautiful, obviously. And members of Congress from across the country, white, Black, brown, Asian, it was just, it was really beautiful. And the marching orders, there are quite a few, right? But one we've got to continue to fight. We have to continue to speak up.
Angel Carroll: Now more than ever, our voices, they're trying to take our voice away. And because of that, we cannot be quiet. We cannot afford to quite literally sit back and watch. them take us back. And so that means not just making sure that everyone is registered to vote, right? And also not just making sure that everyone goes to vote, because the thing is, is we need people to know what's on the ballot, what what these roles do, town halls, right? As a former candidate and folks in the space, you have the the nonprofit side and the C4 side and the PACs, and there's always this conversation of, well, I can't talk about partisan politics, so I can just register people to vote, but that doesn't seem enough. What else can I do?
Angel Carroll: Town halls on what an AG does, what a lieutenant governor does, what your city council does. because it's So it's so important. it's It's local. It starts on that local level, but you have to get people to go top to bottom.
Angel Carroll: They are making voting so hard and it's so intentional. They want us to be tired. And we have to, as I say, we have to keep working that muscle. You know, we have runoffs on May 26th. This will be, I'm going vote later the day today, will be the eighth time that I have voted in the last 12 months.
Angel Carroll: Eighth time, runoff, special elections. March 3rd, had 114 items on my ballot. We have to educate folks on what they're voting for and making sure that we are voting people that are qualified in, right? Not just based off of good vibes either. we we have to sue, right? And that's why I did what I did.
Angel Carroll: When they violate our rights, we have to sue. And yes, I know suing costs money. I'm grateful for Brian and the Austin Community Law Center because i know I'm currently unemployed, so I don't have the money to hire an attorney, right? But there are people that are willing to support people that want to fight and push back and we need to volunteer and get involved with your local Democratic Party to figure out how you can and activate your neighbors and your church.
Angel Carroll: we have to get creative. This is not business as usual, which also means that we cannot utilize. and we We shouldn't just utilize the resources that we have that we have historically used, which is why I'm online talking about it. Right. Social media is a new form of media. Podcasts are a new form of media and news. And so that is how you also reach out and connect with folks that it's not even that they're not active in politics.
Angel Carroll: trying to survive as working class Texans and you got to meet them where they're at.
Kate Rumsey: hundred percent
Alexander Clark: Yeah. And well, since you said May 26, I think that's the perfect segue into our our next segment, which is one of our new things we love to do. It's called Good News. And we have to get into the habit as as people who are not Republicans, who are fighting people who are very comfortable being evangelical.
Alexander Clark: we got to start flexing those those muscles and so one of the things we like to do is ask people what their good news is something so good you just got to share it and I want to start actually we usually let the guests go first but because you said May 26th I was triggered because May 26th triggered in a good way May 26th is my anniversary and my wife will and I will have been married for 14 years on May 26th we got married a week after i graduated from college and
Angel Carroll: Oh, I can't.
Angel Carroll: Okay.
Angel Carroll: Okay.
Kate Rumsey: Wow.
Angel Carroll: Okay.
Kate Rumsey: Congrats.
Angel Carroll: That's...
Alexander Clark: Yeah, and we've we've lived a lot of life together. you know Our marriage is becoming a freshman in high school, basically. you know And we're looking forward to it.
Kate Rumsey: It takes a lot, Alex. I mean, I'm only married like seven years, so that's half.
Angel Carroll: Mm-hmm.
Kate Rumsey: But congrats to you. Are you doing anything special?
Alexander Clark: Yeah, so we're going to Austin this weekend. We'll we'll have a night to ourselves on the the night itself, the Tuesday. And then we are also going to Orlando. Orlando is where I'm going to be going to like a how to manage a small law firm workshop.
Alexander Clark: We're going to make it a the two of us and let let let some people watch the kids so that we can spend the night out in Orlando as well.
Kate Rumsey: Hey, awesome.
Angel Carroll: Oh
Kate Rumsey: What about you, Angel? What's going on in your life?
Angel Carroll: my goodness. So the 27th actually is my birthday.
Kate Rumsey: Happy birthday.
Angel Carroll: Thank you. it's It's a milestone for me, actually. So I turned 31. I know everyone's like 30 is more of a milestone. i actually, I don't think I've ever said this publicly, but At 16, I was in a real, I was in one of the youth prisons.
Angel Carroll: and I remember praying, God, if you help me, if I can get to 30, I promise you my prayer was if I get to 30, I will, you know, use this time of my life, right, to to change, make everything that I've gone through worth worth it, right, which has been my guiding star for the last couple years.
Angel Carroll: So actually a couple days before i got arrested, i had told some friends, I was like, I'm tired, right? i I want to get out of this space. And then I got arrested and, you know, right now it's, to you know, I'm obviously not not out of it, right?
Kate Rumsey: You're in it. hu
Angel Carroll: But I never thought that I would see 30. I mean, I literally was like, if I could just get to 30, like, I don't care if I see 31. And so I never planned my life past 30.
Angel Carroll: So I get to say that 31 and I was the youngest governor appointee. I mean, I'm getting, I mean, crazy. I'm into master's programs right now. I'm, I'm on TV and I'm living my best life.
Angel Carroll: And so I'm just grateful to be alive. So yeah, my good news is I'm alive and I'm thriving.
Kate Rumsey: Yeah.
Kate Rumsey: You are
Alexander Clark: we're We're glad you're still alive too. Thanks being here.
Kate Rumsey: Yes, you are thriving. Yeah.
Alexander Clark: Making the world a better place.
Kate Rumsey: Well, mine, I went to a Richardson area Democrats event last night and i spoke to a bunch of people about why we should elect veterans. And, speaking of and we have a lot of veterans running for office right now and It was just such a great event, and I really appreciated being able to speak to fellow Democrats and have fellowship. And so that was a really great evening. And I have to give a shout out, though, to somebody. I i don't know if you guys have ever felt this when you're speaking, but you get like a deer in a headlights type thing where you might have gone off cuff and then you forget something.
Kate Rumsey: And in that moment, I had a I was trying to give a shout out to all the veteran candidates in the room, and I forgot one. And he is a listener of the podcast. And I was trying to like people were like, oh, it's Zach.
Kate Rumsey: And I was like, Matt, Zach. And so i want to give a shout out to him right now because I bungled his name and he was in the back of the room and I totally forgot about him. So shout out to Zach, who's running up here in North Texas in a house district that is the most flippable up here.
Kate Rumsey: So that is my good news.
Alexander Clark: That's 121.
Angel Carroll: What does that say?
Alexander Clark: Once Marine, always a Marine.
Kate Rumsey: 121, Angie Shen Button. Yep.
Angel Carroll: Ooh.
Kate Rumsey: So he is a JAG former, not former. They're always a Marine, right? So once a Marine, always a Marine. All right. Well, Angel, we're going to head into our last segment. Before we do, I want to put a plug into our Patreon. So if you want to support us as independent media, like Angel, like us, then please help us defray the costs. by joining our Patreon for a few dollars a month, or you can support us by giving a five star review wherever you get your podcasts and share our social media. And also please share Angel's social media because she's out there as well. All right, Angel, we haven't really gotten into this, but really the premise of our podcast is about
Kate Rumsey: flipping the state. I know you care about that as well, and you are a part of that big, beautiful story. So you are our general, we are your soldiers. Give us the marching orders on what we as individuals could specifically do to flip the state from your perspective, but also just the state writ large.
Angel Carroll: I always talk about, and y'all will definitely understand this, what is the mission? The mission and the guiding star is to flip Texas blue. There's always going to be side quests and and things on the side of the road that we might get distracted for, but we have to remember what our mission is.
Angel Carroll: It doesn't mean that we have to ignore the things on the side of the road, but at the end of the day, we have to be able to get back on the truck and say we have to keep and pushing forward through the fog.
Kate Rumsey: you
Angel Carroll: And so that means, can we have real conversations, but understand where we're going and that we need to support good Democrats. and making sure that all of our candidates and fellow voters have the resources that they need and that we're we're spreading the wealth and and the knowledge, right?
Angel Carroll: When I say that, that means I know, i may know something. I may know that this this roadblock on getting access to where voting locations are and how it may change election day.
Angel Carroll: And I need to make sure that my friends and family Know that. And I need to make sure that I'm putting my own comfort to the side. It is as easy as picking up your phone and and and recording a video. I know that that is very worrisome and makes people uncomfortable. It makes me uncomfortable, believe it or not.
Angel Carroll: But what is the mission to make sure that everyone knows when, where, and how to vote? And there are so many tools out there that we have to be able to utilize and put our egos aside. that's the big thing. Our egos get in the way every election cycle. And i think the moment that we're able to put that to the side, we'll really be able to flip Texas.
Kate Rumsey: And sometimes I feel like we're our own worst enemies in that regard as Democrats. And just as a brief aside, I mean, the DNC report or whatever you want to call it came out.
Alexander Clark: autopsy
Kate Rumsey: Autopsy recently came out. So we're digesting that at the moment. But Angel, thank you so much. How can we support you? How can we support your lawsuit more importantly?
Angel Carroll: Yeah, we're still talking about what that what support that looks like. I think right now, as you mentioned, it's a lot to take on emotionally and this is only the beginning. So, the encouragement that everyone is giving is really helpful. shameless plug, follow myself and the other women that are running, Megan Toohey, Jessica Cohen, and Jill Von Voris, because again, there's just a long fight ahead. and it's it's nice to know that we have people on our side And as soon as I have, a concrete way that y'all can support us, I will definitely let everyone know. But again, we're just kind of in that like early phase, that early phase.
Kate Rumsey: Well, thank you, Angel. That is it for us. And we will see our guests next week. And God bless Texas.
