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Is This A ‘Banter Era’ Juventus & Should John Elkann Sell? (Clip From Q & A Pod)
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Given the many problems at Juventus, are the Bianconeri headed for a banter era & should John Elkann sell the club?
The Italian Football Podcast patrons Helge, Daniel and Igor all send in questions wondering what Nima Tavallaey and Carlo Garganese think of the situation currently and what can be done looking forward.
This is an extended clip from this weeks Q & A episode of The Italian Football Podcast available only to patrons on Patreon.com/TIFP
To send in your own questions and support The Italian Football Podcast simply become a member on Patreon.com/TIFP OR Spotify OR YouTube Memberships. Your support makes The Italian Football Podcast possible.
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Transcript
Welcome to The Italian Football Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Italian Football Podcast. Right.
Juventus' Ownership and Financial Woes
00:00:06
Speaker
We've got two questions or we've got two questions I'm going to combine because they're kind of about the same thing. Haina Danielson asks, Hi, guys. Love the show in the format. Always a good listen.
Impact of Agnelli Family Ownership on Juventus
00:00:18
Speaker
If Uncle Elkan has lost interest in Juva and only cares about Xor and Stellantis, would it sail by be the worst thing in the world, even if it would be strange to see Juva owned by someone on the Yanyeli family other than the Yanyeli family?
Ronaldo's Influence on Juventus' Finances
00:00:30
Speaker
I mean, they could surely use a cash injection since they seem unable to create a sustainable business model themselves. I recently saw Andre Agnelli saying that without COVID, the Ronaldo move would have turned out completely different. And even in hindsight, he would do it all over again. I'm not so sure. As I see it, all the money thrown after CR7 completely hindered you when investing in areas that were much more needed, especially in in midfield. How do you see it?
Critique of Transfer Decisions Under Giuntuli
00:00:51
Speaker
And the next question is,
00:00:53
Speaker
um don justrom Hi fellas, can you explain what the bloody hell Juntul is doing? Spending 5 million euros on a dry loan for Renato Vega is just awful business on so many levels. First of all, he's more or less covering a third of what Chelsea paid for him six months ago. Secondly, spending 5 million euros on a defender that wasn't even linked to us until he failed to bring in all these other options.
00:01:11
Speaker
Third, why not just call recall Rugani for the remaining months if none of his preferred options were available?
Evaluating Giuntuli's Role and Future Replacements
00:01:16
Speaker
I had so much hope for Juntuli, but I'm losing faith for in him for every single transfer that occurs. And my second question is, staying on Juntuli, if Yuva were to replace him, who would you take and why?
00:01:28
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Let's start we'll start off. and I'll start off with Juncely and then we'll go on to the bigger question about Elkhorn.
Strategies for Rebuilding Juventus
00:01:35
Speaker
So starting with Juncely, this is something that that we've spoken a lot about in recent weeks. um And particularly with Vega, this is what I was very critical about on Thursday's show last week, um in which I said that this is when you're built when you're starting a project and you're you're trying to build a great team that has fallen and you're trying to start at the beginning and build build a team and a squad to become great again. Sounds like Trump here. Then and the last thing, MJ, make the UVA great again.
00:02:13
Speaker
MJGA, no. But when you're when you're trying to build build something up again, and there's certain things you don't do.
Failures in Long-term Planning
00:02:19
Speaker
Number one, you don't sell any of your core players. You choose who your core players are and you build around them. And that's why I was very critical about the potential or at least the consideration of selling Cambiaso. It's just not what you do when you're building something up. And what you also don't do is you don't do things like spend five million on on a on a dry loan for Renato Vega who's a developing player and that just becomes dead money. You've got no control over the player. You're not building there at all.
Recent Performance and Transfer Blunders
00:02:52
Speaker
So yes, I've been very critical and and that's before we get to all the the mistakes he's made, not signing a ah backup striker or another striker in ah in relation to in addition to to having Vlawovic the first half of the season was was that's killed, absolutely, that's killed Juventus more than anything and this season um and that's unacceptable, that's a huge failure and then that and then of course you know his big signings have not worked you know Douglas Louise spending 50 million on ah an unmitigated disaster and you know that was the
00:03:27
Speaker
to sign signed him, he's sort of signing Calafuri, the master of the Calafuri money there, could have afforded Calafuri with that money.
Comparisons to Other Top Clubs' Failures
00:03:33
Speaker
um And then obviously Koop miners and Niko Gonzalez, some of these transfers have worked, you know, some of them have been good, but as a whole, taking it as a whole, he's been he's been a big failure so far. So with Junsule, I think we're all in agreement there, we we we don't really need to dwell on that. um Then there's the bigger question from Heina,
00:03:52
Speaker
um should Elkan, you know, is this a banter era? and should I mean, the banter era, for Juventus standards, yes, it is a banter era. If Juventus go five years without without even challenging, let's be honest, they haven't even challenged for the title, or let alone, they've been fourth, fourth, they're what, they six this season or fifth or sixth this season.
Agnelli Family's Role and Elkan's Leadership
00:04:14
Speaker
um You know, never, you know, and amount of money they've wasted on players being out, on I know it was they qualified but they were out the Champions League one season as well by Juventus' standards on and off the pitch it has been a bit but but it has been a banter by Juventus' standards maybe not a banter era to the extent of what you're going to say Nima which is Inter and Milan during their days where some of the players they had but were were were far worse than but
00:04:43
Speaker
It's not as bad as interim Milan and there's probably more hope, but yes, by Juventus' standards, I think it is a banter era for Juve.
00:04:54
Speaker
um should elca And then to find so the final question, should Elkan sell? Is it the worst thing in the world for it to get out of the Aniele family? i think I don't know if it should be out of the Aniele family, but what I would say is that John Elkan is the wrong man to be to be the the the man at the top. Put it that way. If if they're going to keep it within the Aniele family, it needs to go to someone else because Elkan doesn't care. He doesn't doesn't care about football. He doesn't understand football and he's pretty incompetent as well. um So
Sustainability of Financial Strategies
00:05:27
Speaker
definitely he's the wrong man for the job. And also I just personally just do not like the guy.
00:05:31
Speaker
at so at all do do not like i think in terms of like guy yeah In terms of Juventus standards, I remember Gigli, Secco and Jean-Claude Blant and their Juve, so that was a banter era Juve.
00:05:48
Speaker
ah This is not a banter or a yuva. This is a yuva that has a new sporting leadership, a new director, this leadership that is trying to find their feet. Juntoli has made lots of mistakes. I don't think he's incompetent because of it. He's made lots of mistakes. And and what Elkan has done is said, we can't keep pushing money into this black hole.
00:06:13
Speaker
And that is just logical. You can't just keep pounding hundreds of millions of euros year after year after year into a black hole. And I think
Need for Coherent Leadership
00:06:23
Speaker
what heinous says is spot on.
00:06:26
Speaker
Andrea Nieli's delusional when he says that had it not been COVID, it would have been a good idea because the CR7 deal prova stopped Juve from actually investing in midfield under Parati Chief, we remember, these giant contracts that he handed out. It just stopped Juve from investing elsewhere in order to make them more more competitive. And it wasn't the co it wasn't COVID's fault that Juve never competed in the Champions League when CR7 was there.
00:06:52
Speaker
Like, that's that's because they they needed to invest elsewhere and they invested wrong. um as for So I think that Giuntoli is making mistakes, he's made lots of mistakes, but I'm not, you know, he's not an idiot, he's not paratici, he's not seco, like, you know, he knows what he's doing, his career is proven as much. But we also have to be honest about the horrible mistakes that he's made and that he's backtracking.
00:07:21
Speaker
As for the Aniele family selling, I think, regardless, ah Italian in football needs to, like Milan have done and Inter are doing,
00:07:32
Speaker
they need to They need to focus on bringing in revenue and growing the product and the brand. That's what they need to do, both at club level, league level, and so on. um I don't think it's sustainable to just keep pumping money into a black hole the way that they've been doing at these clubs. Berlusconi, Morati.
00:07:58
Speaker
Aniele, I just don't think it's sustainable. And I don't think it's so it's it's like artificial breathing, you know? and And I think at some point, something has to give. So whether and I don't think it would be good for Juve if the Aniele family or the XO were to leave Juve, I think that would be a disaster for Juve, to be honest.
Impact of Management on Success and Morale
00:08:19
Speaker
um So, yes, from a Juve perspective, I would absolutely not hope that the they leave.
00:08:26
Speaker
no i would i would i would say be careful before you do that i'm also like with you know the revisionism on any other people forget how many years ahead he was of everyone else in what he did at the start with the events as he just like you said yourself he he he got arrogant at the end of it very drunk on his own power like De Laurentiis did with Napoli you know what he did at the start if the rest of Italian football had followed with him Italian football wouldn't be in the state you're sitting now you know just state with with some of his ideas that were far far advanced but he was held back by the dinosaurs in Italian football so he was very very advanced but you know he I think he probably got frustrated at the end um as well and he became desperate
00:09:08
Speaker
And he just thought, you know what, we can't do this organically. We can't do this as a as a unit with the rest of Saria because none of them want to play ball. So I'm going to just try this and try that. And he and he got made stupid mistakes, you know, like like, you know, like we saw and Ronaldo, especially. And that's, so you know, that's where you've entered. But certainly rather him than bloody John Elkin to tell you that, I mean, God.
00:09:31
Speaker
and yeah Yeah, the soul. There's no soul. The guy is a lizard. like There's no soul within him. They're a soulless club with him there. he just spite There's no, doesn't inspire anything. He talks once a year. It's it's just there's just it's just horrible. You don't feel the the inspiration there. And with and that's the feeling. i think I think nothing speaks louder than the fact that Jeep who they own is no longer even sponsoring the club. I think that it just goes to show how uninterested and disinterested he is. yeah
00:10:06
Speaker
um to me. nice A club needs to be well run from the top for it to succeed. Otherwise it becomes like Juventus have been in the last five years. um And that predates Elkan. That goes into the end, the final date of Danieli. Of course it does. But um you know if a club is run badly at the top, if everybody this's there's no synergy, then everybody's not together. And that includes the fans as well. you know this This is what happens. It doesn't matter who you buy. Everything is poisoned. And the same thing has happened with Milan in ah in a different way.
00:10:37
Speaker
you know look how how unhappy the fans are. you know And that that dapp spills into the team, into the dressing room, into the squad, when you buy new players. Look at Manchester United under the glazers. It doesn't matter who they buy. Everybody flops at Manchester United because that club is so poisoned from the top through the boardroom.
00:10:56
Speaker
that you know And I feel like, I'm not saying the Juventus are there, i'm not they're not that at that that level, what I'm saying, no that's the risk that Juventus find themselves in after five years of not winning
Speculating Juventus' Future Leadership
00:11:06
Speaker
anything. that that that this this becomes It becomes poisoned and that's why, yes, I don't think Elkan is the right man, they need somebody that that can yeah that that can create that environment that is needed to to win and they just don't have that at Juventus now.
00:11:25
Speaker
No, no they don't. and and Igor Lipovat kind of asks as well, I'm just going to read his question as well because he does say something funny. He says, thanks for the great answer in the last Q and&A episode. I wanted to say that I just love Carlo. His analysis and emotional outbursts glued with those amazing Bedford moments, Carlo never change. However, for next part my question, is it possible we're seeing you enters quite deep into a period of five, 10 years from what we'll now call a banter? Why do I ask this? I take into account the way new signings are working out, weird and atmosphere in the club manager Jun Toliamota failing so far. and then i listened to how col and some of my uap supporting friends are talking about the whole situation it reminding me of when into were still on the downward slope in our banter era Fans are emotional and not seeing things rationally because the club is used to success, but now they're just far from quality in playing or managing staff.
00:12:08
Speaker
Can a winning club like Juva have a banter era too, and that or is that just reserved for Milan and Rome clubs? To add to this, a few months ago I compared Douglas Luiz to Condogbia, but I didn't expect to be so much on point with comparison. Forgot to add the comparison. Aniele post Ronaldo plus Aniele equals Morati post Mourinho Elkan equals Tohere. Cheers and keep up the good work. Well, we
Player Performance Comparisons with Humor
00:12:30
Speaker
can't answer all of that, but as for the Douglas Luiz Condogbia thing,
00:12:35
Speaker
I'd say he's even worse this time around, because Condogbia, he wasn't, you know, good. At least Condogbia scored as well, didn't he? From the halfway line. He tried. Did he score from the halfway line? Didn't Condogbia score and then goal from the halfway line, for instance? Yeah, it was pre-season. It's one of the most spectacular goals I've ever seen. And that was towards the end of his time at i didnt Look, the thing that pisses me off about Douglas Lewis is the attitude. i just I think it's unacceptable to to have that attitude in body language. i It's just not on. I think it's disrespectful to the teammates, to the fans. you know he he doesn't It looks like he doesn't care.
00:13:24
Speaker
And that is just not on for me. Condoglia tried. He just wasn't very good. And then he went, I think, to Sevilla and he actually had some success there, you know. But with Douglas Louise, it just feels like he doesn't care.
00:13:38
Speaker
he was i mean that's the lie He was absolutely shocking against Napoli when he came on. but what What gets again here what gets to me about him is that like can't even but all of his he's like misplacing pastors all the time now as well. He's horrendous from a physical point of view. he looks He looks so out of shape. not i don't I'm not talking about body in terms of like you know in terms of his physical body. I'm talking about just out of shape. Like when he runs, he just doesn't look fit. He doesn't look in a condition to play. He has no energy. He has no intensity. <unk> He just doesn't bring nothing. he's he
00:14:20
Speaker
I can't believe how bad he was. The player I really enjoyed watching. I really liked him at Aston Villa. As I've said, my kind of play, I can't believe. It's unbelievable. It's like he's had everything sucked out of him. It's mad. I don't know what it is. It's mad.
00:14:39
Speaker
It's like Samson having his hair cut and all of a sudden loses all of his powers. It's like, I don't know. Like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe it is to do with his hair. That stupid, stupid hairstyle with blondes in his hair. He reminds me of... Have you ever seen Borat, the film of... make great adventure to America, that one, you know, cultural learnings, whatever it's called. Do you remember the hookah that he brought to dinner, the blonde, the black woman with the blonde, he reminds me, he's got that hair tie. Janelle, the name is Janelle. That's Juventus, that's who Juventus support, they brought Janelle this season. They got Janelle, I said, to the field.
00:15:20
Speaker
Next time, just stop playing for the event and just go to dinner with Borat.
00:15:29
Speaker
Oh yeah dear. Oh dear.