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Giampaolo Out at Milan, Juve Beat Inter, and Roma's Refereeing Gripes (Ep. 26)
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Transcript
Milan's Management Chaos
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Seria show!
00:00:16
Speaker
All right, everybody, we are back with a absolutely packed edition of the Sadia show. I hope you're all doing very, very well. Chloe Nima, we seemed like the top subject for this one was going to be the intriguing and very exciting match between Inter and Juve, but Milan, Milan, Milan. For anyone who's been on social media over the last few hours, there's a certain trend that is
00:00:44
Speaker
happening worldwide on Twitter and it is simply Pioli out and that represents Chloe Stefano Pioli who is rumored to be closing in on replacing Marco Gianpaolo at the club. What is there to say? I mean this is an absolute mess. An absolute mess.
00:01:05
Speaker
It's diabolical, and you know, Milan Twitter has exploded, and I can see why, to be honest. I mean, Stefano Pioli is, you know, he's a former Fiorentina manager, as we know, and as a man, as a person, there isn't anybody better. He is, you know, so admirable and so honorable in the way that he goes about his work. However,
00:01:34
Speaker
He has serious, serious limitations as a coach and if Milan were going to sack Guttuzzo,
00:01:43
Speaker
fail with Gianpaolo and then appoint Piolo. Why didn't they just keep Catuzzo? It makes no sense. And, you know, Piolo might come in and, well, he probably will come in and steady the ship. He'll get them playing in a more steady fashion than Gianpaolo has done. But he's not of a man to take them forward.
Financial Missteps and Leadership Critique
00:02:06
Speaker
And apart from that, they're all mad that he's a self-confessed Interfan too.
00:02:10
Speaker
Can we just talk about how poor this planning was by Maldini, Bolban, Masada? I mean, I don't think there is anybody who is free of blame here because this is just terrible planning, terrible. As an Inter fan and someone who's been covering Inter on a daily basis for the past seven years, I'm absolutely amazed at how Milan are repeating the same mistakes that Inter did.
00:02:37
Speaker
It's unbelievable. I mean, they interappointed Frank Deboure, a coach that they should never have appointed, which is the same thing we can say about Gianpaolo. Then they sacked him and brought in Stefano Pioli and things went well. He studied the ship exactly like Chloe said, but then things deteriorated and he was sacked.
00:02:58
Speaker
And basically, it's a lost season once again for Milan. This is an absolute shambles. I completely understand the anger and the frustration and the disillusion that all Milan fans are experiencing. Because Stefano Pioli, it's not against him as a person, it's how this club is being mismanaged.
00:03:25
Speaker
Stefano Pioli is not the manager that Milan is going to build around. Stefano Pioli is exactly like Chloe said, he's just a guy who studies the ship. It shows the sheer incompetence
00:03:40
Speaker
of this management. And I'm really surprised because I was really, I was very positive when Milan appointed Maldini and Bourbon. But then as soon as Leonardo left and the manner in which he left, that started raising warning flags.
00:03:58
Speaker
And now it is a complete mess. It's a complete mess. They obviously didn't have time to wait for Spaletti and Inter to resolve their differences. And that is just a completely separate issue on its own. But this is just awful, awful, awful planning. Completely awful planning. And think about it. They spent a lot of money on the transfer window as well to get players
00:04:26
Speaker
that Gianpaolo wanted. And now that has been completely torn apart. So what now? Because I mean, remember, this is a club that's been sanctioned by UEFA for breaching financial fair play regulations. I mean, it's a complete mess. It's a complete and utter mess. I just have a hard time in believing that in all of this, that the name that they landed upon was Stefano Pioli. This just seems so illogical.
00:04:54
Speaker
Well, he's never done that before. He's never qualified for the Champions League with another team. He's a mid-table guy. I know it would have been a massive case of swallowing humble pie, but if they were going to go with Pioli, they would have been better going to Gutuzo and saying, look,
00:05:18
Speaker
kind of, will you give this another chance? We were wrong about you. And, you know, he was learning. We talked about the fact that he maybe had a glass ceiling on what he can achieve at a club like Milan who won the Champions League. But let's not forget they only missed out on the Champions League qualification by one point when he was in charge. And, you know, I think
00:05:44
Speaker
in a way it would have been better to adjust expectations and say look we're not the side that we were in the past, we're going to have to start this rebuild project and it might be slow and we might have to learn alongside Gatuzo but at least
Lessons from Inter's Past
00:06:01
Speaker
we're moving in the right direction, rather than, oh, scrap that, let's start a new project now. And these problems run really, really deep. And they started with Berlusconi and the fact that he wasn't going to put any more money in. And
00:06:21
Speaker
It's, I mean, I guess he was mismanaging them even before that, if you think about it, but, you know, it goes really deep and Milan have got almost like an existential crisis that they've come from winning all these trophies to then all the players got old all at once. And now they're under the ownership of this hedge fund. And, you know, we've all seen examples in other countries, especially of,
00:06:51
Speaker
owners that have come in who don't have the club's best interests at heart. I'm not saying that Elliot are deliberately not doing a good job, I'm just saying that
00:07:05
Speaker
they're not football people and they've brought in Maldini and Boban and they're from the old times as well. They can't just keep going back to why we were so successful in the past because it's ruining their future.
00:07:23
Speaker
I think, in my opinion, the best thing that can happen to Milan now is what happened to Inter, when Suning, a big, huge international conglomerate with their stature, their competence, that kind of rich incompetence,
00:07:43
Speaker
comes in and buys the club from this Elliott hedge fund and starts building from scratch, from the top to bottom, just like Suning did. I think I see so much of what happened at Inter
00:08:04
Speaker
happening at Milan now and for me this is just history repeating itself but I really expected Milan to have learned from the mistakes that Inter did but instead they're not only repeating it but in some aspects they're even making it worse.
00:08:21
Speaker
100% and the thing I find most ironic is somebody, I apologize for who you are, they tweeted out the front page of an old Lagazate de los Porres. One of the quotes from Maldini is, and I believe this was at the time when they had that very weird, mysterious owner who
00:08:39
Speaker
claimed he was rich but he really wasn't rich and Maldini said they're destroying Milan and a bit ironic now that really don't seem to be in a much better position now than they were at that moment. It's very difficult to understand and
00:08:56
Speaker
come to terms with how they've gotten here because it just seems like an utter failure from top to bottom from everybody you would think just by dumb luck somebody could get this right at one point i mean we're going on six seven years where they've done nothing now they haven't gotten any single appointment right
00:09:14
Speaker
and they just continue with this merry-go-round of disaster ownership, disaster managers. Nima, I just find it so difficult to understand. This just seems like, okay, you're bringing in Pioli. It just almost seems like you're resetting the clock and you're adding another two years to the timeline on this.
00:09:33
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. And that is why Milan fans are so angry, because it shows literally no ambition. It shows that the club doesn't seem to know what they're doing. They're just basically throwing the dice in the air and hoping for the best outcome.
Serie A Coaching Changes
00:09:49
Speaker
And this is on top of the six, seven years that you spoke about. And it's completely unacceptable. So I completely understand why they're so upset, why they're so angry. And they have every justification in the world to be.
00:10:02
Speaker
Again, as I said, I think the only way to resolve this is to bring in a big, you know, a huge international conglomerate that knows what they're doing, that is modern and can modernize this club from top to bottom. Because if we're completely honest, Boban and Maldini have done worse than Mirabeli and Fassone, which is quite
00:10:28
Speaker
Wow. Yeah, I mean, exactly. Let's let's be honest. That was that. That's a feat feat in and of it in and of itself. You know, so I am really, really, I'm not I'm really upset. And I really feel bad for Milan because the Serie A needs a good Milan. The Serie A needs a strong Milan because Milan can can can compete internationally together with you. And we need that in the Italian football needs that.
00:10:56
Speaker
So let's move to the other, we're going to start calling you psychic Nima because you call this sampdoria thing from the very start. Esebio Di Francesco out and Ferrero, I don't know what this guy's thinking, I don't know where his head is at.
00:11:13
Speaker
He wants to sell the club. He gives exclusive negotiation rights to Gianluca Vialli. Vialli's group, they pull out saying that Ferrero is requesting too much for Semptoria. So now Ferrero is without a prospective buyer for the club. He's looking for a new manager as well now.
00:11:33
Speaker
If you want to talk about messes, Sampdoria should be lucky that Milan are in this, are in this bit of a disaster because otherwise they would be the ones in the spotlight because they're not in much better shape. No, exactly, exactly. And it's, and it's so, and to me, this was so, like, for me, it was predictable. This was so predictable because Eusebio de Francesco, I mean, if you, even if you like watched him poorly and badly, you know that he's,
00:12:02
Speaker
not a guy who can steady the ship, he's not a guy to have when you have turbulence at a club. And that is what Sampdoria have had. Now, one thing that you have to say is that they only sold two players this summer, but it was two very important players. So they really shouldn't be in the relegation zone. They should be, you know, a few places, you know, maybe top in the middle, 10th, 11th, 12th.
00:12:31
Speaker
And that's why, you know, the situation, it was so avoidable. And I don't understand it. I think it's so sad because up until this season, the Sampdoria project under Ferrero was actually pretty good. It was an exciting project. They played some good football. They had good scouting. They introduced some great players, young players.
00:12:55
Speaker
and together with the Cagliarella, who was amazing. I mean, it was really nice to watch. And then they just completely implode.
00:13:05
Speaker
And that is just, it's so sad. And now they're talking about Ranieri coming in. I mean, you know, I have so much respect for Ranieri for what he's done. And I guess he's the right man to, you know, steady the ship, et cetera. But again, where's the ambition? These last minute, you know, panicked, you know, let's panicked, you know, choices and these panicked
00:13:30
Speaker
things that they do come on, you know, it's bad. Sampdoria is also a club that, you know, if we look historically, they should be, you know, between 10th to 6th, 7th,
00:13:43
Speaker
and possibly compete in Europe and do well there.
Inter vs. Juve Analysis
00:13:47
Speaker
But now they're a complete mess. And now they have to. They have to now. Whoever they appoint is going to have to battle to avoid relegation. That's how bad the situation is. Speaking of battling for Europe, Chloe, so Montala got a lot of stick for not winning in quite a long period of time at the beginning of the season.
00:14:06
Speaker
But here we go. Fiorentina, they rip off another victory. Nima said it. They are in the hunt for a European place now. I think given the struggles of Milan, Roma continue to drop points. They keep drawing with everybody. Fiorentina, they're sitting at 11 points. You have Cailliri at 11. You have Lazio at 11. You have Roma at 12. You had Napoli sitting in fourth with 13 points. They've gone from bottom of the table to look out. They could actually do this.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, and if you look at the fixtures after the international break as well. Extremely kind, extremely kind. Yeah, some really nice looking fixtures that are all really winnable. I was very pleased with the win over Udinese because Udinese made it incredibly difficult for Fiorentina. They actually dug in and they were very
00:15:02
Speaker
determined to try and go for a nil-nil, which when you play without a striker, it's actually pretty difficult to break them down. But Fiorentina kept going. They didn't lose their heads or their shape. It was calm. They had a plan. They knew what they were doing and that they were confident they were going to win anyway.
00:15:28
Speaker
and I have to say when Udinese did attack that Martin Casares has been absolutely fantastic. He was brilliant again in Montala's back three and they really are a team and they look
00:15:52
Speaker
like they're getting stronger every week. I mean, you know, it's one thing to go to San Siro and wow everybody with a brilliant performance. But when you're battling against a team who are really hard to break down, those are the games when you can really easily drop points in Serie A. And Fiorentina, you know, they came through that. And now there's another international break. Montella may look to try out a back four and maybe introduce
00:16:21
Speaker
Pedro, who is a new Brazilian striker. And it's just all looking really, really positive at this point. The fans are just completely in love with Frank Ribery. And it's just everything. It's like Camiso has come in and just released Fiorentina's potential that had been laying dormant for all this time. And it's really so good to see.
00:16:47
Speaker
I absolutely what I like the most about this Fiorentina is the fact that this 3-5-2 he plays is so different to other 3-5-2s in the sense that with with Chiesa and Ribari up front he's almost playing with two false nines and the movement that these two that these two you know create and and the way they
00:17:06
Speaker
the way they move up around the box and the way they go outside and then the midfielder fills in, it's really difficult to play them. I really hope he doesn't change things, Montela, and then he continues with this lineup because Fiorentina are looking so solid in midfield, in defense, in attack, and they're an absolute joy to watch. In my opinion, they're right now, they together with Atalanta play the most
00:17:29
Speaker
entertaining football in all of Serie A? Yeah, that's a good shout. I'm sure we'll talk about Atalanta more coming up because I think we might have exaggerated a bit their early struggles. But Nima, let's get to the derby. I can only imagine what you have to say.
00:17:46
Speaker
So go ahead. First thoughts. How are you feeling? What did you what did you think of the match? I listen, I thought this and I think maybe people are saying you that was I think people are over exaggerating the golf between the two. I saw a lot of people saying you could have won by more. I thought it was actually pretty balanced. But what did you make of it? It was pretty balanced for sure. But but it was but there's no doubt looking at the entire game that you were better.
00:18:13
Speaker
that Juve deserved their win. There's no doubt about that. And I think the reason they won and how they won was also very telling as to the difference between these teams. I mean Juve wanted to sell players, a lot of players in the summer, because Sarri felt that he had too much quality and that was going to cause problems.
00:18:37
Speaker
but shocker the ones who they wanted to sell or the ones who scored exactly and and the ones and those are the ones that have really adapted and he's also changed and he started rotating and he's changed his his formation and and started getting i mean the bala and ronaldo together were wow what what a duo up there they were fantastic
00:18:58
Speaker
And, you know, with all due respect to Matthias Bessino, who's done so much good for for Inter, but, you know, when Stefano Cenci is injured, they bring in Matthias Bessino, Inter bring in Matthias Bessino, Juve bring in Gonzalo Higuain and
00:19:15
Speaker
They bring in Emre Chan and Bentan Koor. There's a difference in quality here. Just a little bit. Let's be honest, it's a huge difference in quality. And the same thing with Godin. When Godin got injured,
00:19:30
Speaker
they brought in Alessandro Bastoni who's a youngster who did really well but his mistake on the goal is why he missed his position and that's why you've scored the winner and they scored a winner after 24-27 passes so
00:19:48
Speaker
This i think the exaggeration has been so much or i think the criticism against you there in the beginning of the season has been so exaggerated of course it's gonna take time to adapt to a coach like sorry who's an ideologue you know.
00:20:07
Speaker
Allegri being a pragmatic guy, this guy is an ideologue, and it's going to take time. But they still won, and when it starts clicking, the more matches they get together and start clicking, then it looks better and better and better. And against Inter, it looked fantastic. I think Juve were great. They played so well, and Dubala and Ronaldo up front were, wow.
00:20:32
Speaker
If they can maintain this form and they can improve, this is a side that Juve can seriously be a contender for the Champions League. Absolutely no discussion. I think, like you said John, that the gap between the two of them has been exaggerated and I think
00:20:50
Speaker
In a way, the fact that Inter had won their first six games and then go into this really exciting clash. I think even some comments from Inter fans that I saw on Twitter were like, oh, we know we're as good as we think we are.
00:21:08
Speaker
you know a bit disbanded which I couldn't understand because if it was me having lost a big game like that after so much build-up I would be disappointed too but I think need some perspective because yes we know you very good they've won the last eight titles and although they've changed their approach that mentality and that winning structure and ethos is still there throughout the club but
00:21:37
Speaker
into the way that they played, like Nima said, the substitution, they didn't really have the same quality that Juve had on the bench and that kind of hurt them. But they will continue to squash teams further down the table. Anybody Juve and below, they will continue to win. Antonio Conte is very experienced and he knows how to win and he loves winning and everything's geared towards winning.
00:22:06
Speaker
There is nothing to be despondent about really because they're going to carry on being good. The whole world didn't end because they lost to you, even though maybe it felt a little bit like that.
00:22:21
Speaker
No, absolutely, absolutely. The world, I mean, I still think, I mean, I never thought that Inter were going to win the scurrito, so I'm not, you know, to me, that was a bit exaggerated. So I think... Hey, Chloe died. Yeah, that's not it. I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry, guys. But it's not going to happen. The quality you have is just too much, and you have to be able to repeat that. And Inter, I think, will struggle at times.
00:22:46
Speaker
But one thing that I'm a little bit worried about, there's actually two or three things that I'm really worried, that I'm starting to really worry about at Inter. And that is, before appointing Antonio Conte on this part, I said I was against that appointment because I was worried that Milan Skringar would struggle. Now, against lesser teams, he looks good, he looks okay. But against the best teams,
00:23:11
Speaker
like Barcelona and Juve, he looks very out of place in that back three. And
00:23:19
Speaker
that is a worry to me because he's really important, he's a leader on the pitch and when he's not able to deliver and lead there becomes like a vacuum in leadership on the pitch and that is something I'm worried about. Yeah I can see what you mean, he did look shaky at times but I suppose the thing with Inter is that
00:23:44
Speaker
hate to say it, but in stark contrast to the Milanese neighbours, they are actually building
00:23:52
Speaker
to close the gap to Juve off the pitch as well as on it. And off the pitch is just as important, if not more, because off the pitch is where Juve have built their dominance from, from owning their own stadium and becoming an ultra-modern club and Inter are moving in that right direction and they're moving in that right direction quicker than any other side in Serie A. So I think there's a lot to be positive about because
00:24:22
Speaker
and you know it's all kind of coming together and and whilst okay they're not UVA yet they they are a hell of a lot closer than they have been and they're a lot closer than anybody else's as well. But it's taken one summer for Inter to really close that gap in my opinion I don't know what you two think but I feel as if Inter have closed that gap a lot quicker than anybody has in in recent history in the city.
00:24:46
Speaker
I agree with that. I agree completely with that. And that has to do with exactly what Chloe said just a moment ago. The off-the-pitch stuff that Suning have done, the structure they have put in place has been so important and has been so
00:25:04
Speaker
well thought out and it's worked out so well, so that once they were able to bring in someone like Marotta and Conte, it became much easier to click because the structure was already in place. So I think that is why, although it looks like it was just one summer to close that gap, in fact, it's been a
00:25:28
Speaker
hard work, consistent work, and very thought-out project for the past three years from swimming, and that's paying dividends now. And as we are recording this, Marco Gianpaolo, they arrived at Milanello, and it looks like they are going to be free officially.
00:25:48
Speaker
within the next couple of hours. So can you believe this is actually going to happen, guys? I'm just still mystified by this. So, so, so, so horrible. So incredibly short-sighted, too. But also, if you look at the Genoa game, in that second half, Milan came to life and it seemed like they were fighting for Gianpaolo. And I thought, well, okay, he's still got the dressing room, so, you know, then he won't get sacked.
00:26:13
Speaker
And then they still sack him. I mean, I don't understand. Yeah, but let's be honest. I mean, they were a penalty save away from still drawing with the Genoa who are about to sack their manager. I guess I have a sort of thinking about it slightly different way. You just, I just kind of, because it's so ridiculous to a point purely, it just kind of makes you evaluate everything over again. And you think,
00:26:40
Speaker
would it be more sensible than bringing Peole in to give Gianpaolo a little bit more time to settle down and work things out? I mean we've covered how he's worked in a lot of depth on this pod and we've all said that there's no chance he can turn it around or work it out just because of his body language and his approach but
00:27:04
Speaker
I don't know. It is just complete madness.
VAR Controversies in Serie A
00:27:08
Speaker
It just makes you wonder if... Is Piola really the answer? If Genoa had appointed him, I'd think, well, that's not so bad.
00:27:23
Speaker
Milan. Well, Jesus, I mean, we're talking about this as a huge crisis. And I can understand if you're a Milan supporter, how you could understand that things are going well, they're not going well. But they're four points off the fourth place in the table. I mean, this is not like they're, you know, 10 points, season's over. I mean, this is still relatively early in the season. And that's why I think appointing someone like Spalletti with a proven track record of finishing in the top four with a proven track record of being able to handle
00:27:51
Speaker
crazy big clubs where the pressure is immense would be the ideal solution but obviously Milan offered him exactly what he's earning at Inter but the difference is that he's Spalletti basically told Inter that either you pay me every single euro you owe me or you or I'm not I'm not you know
00:28:12
Speaker
that's what I want or else I'm not going to agree to terminate the contract. And I think the reason for that is because he feels betrayed by Inter, the fact that when he was there, he couldn't get any of the players he wanted and they had no money, but as soon as Conte comes in, they start spending like nobody's business. So I think a lot of it has to do with his pride and
00:28:40
Speaker
And we all know that when it comes to being stubborn, I don't think there are many more stubborn people on earth than Luciano Spalletti. When he gets something, yeah, I mean, when he gets an idea in his head, that's it.
00:28:55
Speaker
He's putting pictures on social media of himself working in his vineyard. He's got to be worth it for him financially to quit his vineyard and go and work in that environment of absolute
00:29:11
Speaker
chaos at Milan and be up for all that stick and and everybody's criticism like I can kind of understand why he said well give him the full money or it's not worth it to me because I think I'd rather stay on the vineyard to be honest.
00:29:26
Speaker
Well, even if we're talking from a pure tactical on the pitch standpoint, I think his 4-2-3-1 with this Milan would actually fit perfectly and it's astounding to me that that seems to be one of the talking points that seems to be thrown to the wayside. I think from a managerial tactical standpoint, Spalletti is the perfect one right now, yeah? I agree 100% with that and I tweeted it out as well yesterday that I think that
00:29:50
Speaker
this squad is actually more of a of a Spalletti squad than Inter squad was when he took over that. So no I think it's incredibly short-sighted for that but but I mean as you said I mean that vineyard I mean anyone who's been in Tuscany
00:30:04
Speaker
I wouldn't leave a vineyard as well if I was being paid five million euros a year for another three weeks. I'd probably stay there until the end of time, you know, like... Yeah, with five million in your pocket, you could have a very good life there. Five million euros per year for another two and a half years, I mean, come on.
00:30:22
Speaker
There were quite a few places I rather would have been, a vineyard included, instead of watching Roma at the weekend. Can I ask you something? Sorry to interrupt. I don't understand the meltdown that Roma had. Can you explain that to me? You mean just in regards to their qualms with the referee? Yeah, because they make it sound as if he just, I don't know,
00:30:46
Speaker
Like, I don't get it. Well, they've been in fairness, and I am one who despises blaming the referee. I think it's cowardice at many times. Aroma do have a genuine gripe with the refereeing decisions they've been handed over the last few weeks.
00:31:02
Speaker
In the third or fourth minute against Leche, there was a very clear handball, the most clear handball you'll ever see. It doesn't go to VAR, the referee rules, it isn't a handed ball when, I mean, anybody with a working set of eyes could have noticed that that one was, without question, a handed ball. Bologna, they had another one, very clear handball, they weren't awarded a penalty.
00:31:23
Speaker
And then in this one, I don't even know what that was at the end where Kalinic, he scores, looks like Roma win. Pisa Kane of Kaliri looks, he goes down as if there was a sniper in the Monte Mario stand of the Stadio Olimpico just sniping at him. I hope they caught the shooter because a poor guy went down like a ton of bricks. So the referee ruled that it was a foul. Roma,
00:31:52
Speaker
insist that it wasn't whistle to foul and that it should have gone to VAR. I think they were hard done by that. I do think it was a goal. Now does that excuse Roma not getting the ball in the back of the net? Absolutely not. They had plenty of opportunities. They created a ton. I just thought overall it was a poorly refereed affair and I do think Roma do have a genuine gripe in this instance to sort of feel a bit hard done.
00:32:19
Speaker
The goal that Kajiri had came from a non-existent foul that was called an Amaru Diawara. It was shocking to me. Nima, you tell me it on Twitter every time and I feel like reaching through the phone and just smacking you because I get so angry with this explanation that it's got to be a clear and obvious foul.
00:32:39
Speaker
How subjective is that? What the hell does that even mean? Listen. Well, that's exactly it. It's a subjective. That's what it is. Well, here's my issue. Here's my issue. So Roma, they get a penalty awarded against them because they say that Manchini handed the ball and it came, this handed ball came from a free kick. Now, this free kick was incorrectly ruled a foul and Amaru Tiawara was booked. He was given a yellow card.
00:33:04
Speaker
So if they can review this handed ball on Manchini, why can the very, it was very, very obvious, and I'm not just saying this because I'm bitter, but it was very obvious that Diawada, he got the ball on this free kick. It was very, very clear, extremely clear. So if you can review the handed ball, why can the action that not leads to that handed ball also be reviewed just 15 to 20 seconds before? I don't understand this because to me it's absurd, absolutely absurd.
00:33:33
Speaker
Well, look, I mean, I understand what you're saying, but that is how the rules work. That is what IFAB decided that it should be, that some things should not be able to be reviewable, some things should be, and you have to draw the line somewhere. I personally think that it
00:33:52
Speaker
you need to draw the line somewhere, but where do you draw the line? I don't know. I don't even profess to know. I just know that it needs to be coherent, it needs to be very clear, and it needs to be applied
00:34:06
Speaker
every week in and week out and not arbitrarily, which is the issue here. I mean, that's the biggest problem. Biggest problem we have right now in this city are the biggest. Yeah, it's the referees themselves. It's not necessarily the technology itself. It's correct. You know, they're not they're sometimes choosing not to check it. And, you know, there was an incident in the Fiorentina game where Udinese looked to have scored. They
00:34:34
Speaker
it looked to be a logistic goal but when you there are all the Fiorentina players appeal for it and when you looked at the replay actually the cross that came in for the goal was batted in with the guy's hand. So the referee very quickly went to the VAR, checked it, ruled it out. There was no
00:34:55
Speaker
um big huge break in the game there was no delay there was no problem because the referee applied the rules as they should be applied and that's you know when when it's done like that it's absolutely fine it doesn't detract from the experience it's not it's no problem but
00:35:12
Speaker
when you've got inconsistency in how it's applied it just makes fans furious and you know I was with Nima I didn't see why Roma were going so over the top I mean obviously it's very disappointing when you think you've won the game and then you haven't but you know I actually didn't really think that was a goal I thought there was a bit of a push and a foul but
00:35:38
Speaker
I can understand if it's like listening to you John and saying that it's a build-up of frustration over lots of little things that's caused this big outburst and it's the referees themselves that are causing it by not being consistent. Especially in a place like Italy where conspiracy theories are throughout, you can't be so inconsistent like that.
00:36:01
Speaker
No, because it creates this, it perpetuates this, you know, this, this, this, this, you know, that we're back to the old days where people are getting bribed and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think another example of that, you know, it's just an example that I put on Twitter, put on Twitter, because I don't think
00:36:18
Speaker
I want to make this absolutely clear. I don't think that the referees were biased or anti-inta or anything like that.
00:36:33
Speaker
I'm just thinking that for me, Gianluca Rocky, when he starts high-fiving players in the middle of the match, in the middle of the game going on, that does not look good. And he has done this for the better part of a decade. I remember in 2010, when Inter played against Milan,
00:36:50
Speaker
He's talking to Boriello and puts both of his hands around Boriello's cheek, looking at him like, oh, my baby. It doesn't look good. Stop doing that. And that's just an example of how this league, as you always say, John, can't get out of its own way. They don't get it. They just don't get it. And they make life so much harder for themselves than it needs to be. The inconsistency as to when they decide it needs to be reviewed and not
00:37:19
Speaker
That needs to be completely fixed because listen we have instances where they decide not to go to it great And then there's other instances where they'll decide to go to it. They take 15 minutes to review the end There's no change, so I don't understand somebody needs to lay out Perfectly as you said Nima. I just need a objective Measurement as to what we use to decide when we go to review it versus when we don't because the
00:37:46
Speaker
That's my entire gripe with this thing, because if you have some guy in Australia who can tell from his couch that the decision is very clear, but the wrong decision is still made, that's the issue. That with me is the biggest problem, that we have this technology and in the end we still have wrong decisions being made. How is that even possible? I thought that in the first year, VAR was introduced. That was before IFAB and FIFA got involved and imposed this.
00:38:16
Speaker
this ridiculous notion of clear and obvious error. Then I thought the VAR looked good. I thought they used it properly. There were some kinks, obviously, because it took a little bit of time. But the way they applied it, I thought, was good and fair. And when they missed things, they admitted it and said, yeah, we should have, blah, blah, blah. And things were not as heated as they have been these past two seasons, where you use, for example, in Inter Fiorentina, the D'Ambrosio incident,
00:38:45
Speaker
You use the video and you see it doesn't touch his arm and then you give a penalty anyway. Like you said, it's ridiculous. How can you make the wrong decision when you have the technology? Like that to me is the biggest problem. And I think, you know, I was told by a journalist colleague about how, for example, the Rugby World Cup, how they use video technology and how they are very open about their mistakes and stuff like that. I thought it was, wow, that sounded like heaven.
00:39:15
Speaker
And I just think it's just so counterproductive what they're doing. Because then you're going to have people who are always against change saying that VAR is bad and blah, blah, blah. So no, VAR is not bad. It's the people using it that don't know what they're doing.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah. And another thing that I would like to see implemented, now I can't vouch for this, but somebody told me in the Dutch league, what they do is they have the referee speak to one reporter, uh, one, uh, there's one journalist, one reporter who is designated as the one to talk with the referee after the match. And they're allowed to ask the referee about the decisions that were made of the match. Why can that not be implemented just for more transparency? I love that. I don't understand that because that is something that I think will go a long way.
00:40:00
Speaker
I think that is the best idea I've ever heard. That would be awesome. Again, transparency. Explain yourselves. Even if you make a mistake and you can just say it afterwards, okay, I made a mistake. I'm sorry. That's fine. Everyone can, you know, that's fair enough. But this, you know, put the lid on, nobody says anything and everything just seems weird. It doesn't help anyone and it doesn't look good either. Again, the optics, it doesn't look good.
00:40:25
Speaker
So what we're saying is sweeping things under the carpet is not good because this is what we talk about nearly all the time. It allows for it to be more than it needs to be. I mean we could be really angry over a decision and actually when the referee comes out and explains himself he could say well actually it was because of
00:40:48
Speaker
this this and this that you didn't see that went on behind the scenes and this is why i made my decision and everybody goes oh okay i get it now and then everybody calms down and and it could it just the information that we watching do not get could actually help us to understand the process and what's going on
00:41:06
Speaker
And it would actually make the referee more of a sympathetic figure because right now, and as much as this isn't right of us to do, but we almost don't view them as very sympathetic humans. We're so angry with them. We want to smack them. You want to grab them by the neck and say, you know, what are you doing? If they at least had the opportunity to explain themselves, I'd be able to sympathize with them significantly more because then I'd understand their perspective better. But as you said, Chloe, we're at the point now, we just sweep everything
00:41:34
Speaker
It makes them human. If they were allowed to explain themselves and we're allowed to just give, like you said, just one journalist or one person explaining what they thought, that makes them human.
Community Engagement Wrap-Up
00:41:49
Speaker
because when they're not talking, the only people, you know, they turn to their Federation, you know what I mean? Like it becomes a non, an organization instead of a person. And that's why the rage is just, you know, it's so big. And I think they need to get out of, they need to help themselves, help, you know, stop getting, get out of your own way. And so before I have a stroke talking anymore about the city and the referees,
00:42:16
Speaker
that's where we're going and we will be back next week as i said after the international break to preview the next match day so as always if you could continue to like share our content that really really helps us here leave us reviews whichever platform you're listening to us on that would be very very helpful so as always until next time everybody bye