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Episode 419: Preview of Sounders - Real Salt Lake
63 Plays2 years ago
To help us preview Real Salt Lake and give us insight into their recent surge, we enlisted friend of the show Matt Montgomery of Wasatch Soccer Sentinel.
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Transcript
Sponsorship and Podcast Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode of Nos Arietes is sponsored by Full Pull Wines, a Seattle-based wine retailer and proud sponsor of Nos Arietes since 2011. Full Pull was founded in 2009, is based in Seattle, and is owned and operated by longtime sounder supporters. They offer the best boutique wines of the world to members of their mailing list, with special focus on their home, the Pacific Northwest.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hey, this is Christian Roldan. And Jordan Morris from the Seattle Sounders Football Club. And you're listening to... There's no study at this. Here we go. Come on! Hey, Ocean! Let's go! What a save by Fry! The Seattle Sounders have done it! MLS co-pointers! Here come three games through the middle to crowd it! The vehicle! And now they truly can't stop the celebrations.
00:01:04
Speaker
Seattle Sounders the greatest MLS team in history This is a tiny doll
Impact of Messi on League's Cup
00:01:34
Speaker
Is that why you young people call twerking?
00:01:38
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of NOS Adietta, sponsored by Fullpool Wines and Watson's Counter. I am Jeremiah Shannon, joining me today to talk about League's Cup. Yeah, is Matt Montgomery of Wasatch Soccer. How's it going? It's good. You seem very excited about League's Cup. Oh, I'm so jazzed about League's Cup. I bet you are too. League's Cup fever.
00:02:04
Speaker
Should I also talk about how I'm excited about Lionel Messi and how he's going to transform me? Exactly, exactly. Aren't you? How excited are you to not play against Lionel Messi? I am moderately excited. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't I'm not like a big Messi lover, but clearly amazing player. Extremely boring personality. Extremely boring personality. He won't be playing any Western Conference teams, I don't think, right?
00:02:31
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's still, of course, a small chance with US Open Cup. Oh, US Open Cup, too. Yeah, because RSL and Miami are both in the semi-finals. Would you guys be hosting? If you make it, would you host Miami? Yeah. Wow, that would be quite a way to back into a
00:02:50
Speaker
a messy game. Yeah, that would be the weirdest thing. And I think it's a minor miracle that the deal got done after that coin flip because I don't know. The coin might have landed differently. Yeah.
00:03:05
Speaker
Yeah, I can see that magical coin maybe being swayed by the power of of messy, but let's let's focus on the game at hand here for it's very funny because in my mind after the Sounders played
RSL's Form and Key Players
00:03:21
Speaker
RSL the last time I took a deep breath and I was like, okay, we're done with RSL. They are looking like cold-blooded killers now. We don't have to play them anymore. And then all along, I just had been ignoring the fact that we still have to play you on the road, no less, in League's Cup. RSL looks fantastic right now. There may be everyone's favorite team, it seems. Every neutral.
00:03:49
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and famously I've never said anything negative about no, you've been a big supporter all along. Like this is all, it's all coming up Millhouse. I honestly have no idea what happened. Um, Pablo Mastro any still says weird things in press conferences. So I'm glad to know that's not a static thing. It's constant. Um,
00:04:13
Speaker
And I, he hasn't said anything really weird about tactics lately. Um, but clearly the team is looking extremely good. Yeah. What's their, they're, they're like on a, they're like the hottest team in MLS right now. Yeah. It's wild. We were the one of the worst teams in MLS before that. So right. Uh, it's exhausting. I love it, but it's exhausting.
00:04:33
Speaker
It is a little exhausting and it's funny because there was sort of this, I think the last time we were on, we talked about how there was supposed to be this influx of investment and all this money was supposed to be coming into RSL and that was going to transform this roster.
00:04:49
Speaker
yada, yada, yada, but where is it? And now we've found it. Now, all of a sudden you guys are bringing in players and there seems to be a genuine belief that Chichorongo is like the missing piece that like
00:05:06
Speaker
I mean, from the outside, everyone is just gushing about this. What do you make of that? So Chijo Arango, clearly a good player. I don't think he was the missing piece entirely. I think finishing has been a problem for this team. But I don't know, I'm one of those weirdos that tends to believe the weird data science people who say that finishing is not a thing, right? Right. That's what we are holding tight to in Seattle right now.
00:05:34
Speaker
Yeah, and I get that. And I do, I believe that from a statistical perspective. But what I think happened is one, there's an influx of excitement in the team around Chichorongo, and that you can't account for, right?
00:05:54
Speaker
That's a good thing. Um, but I think the bigger thing for me is that Diego Luna started getting like real consistent minutes and he's completely transformed this team. When he's on the field, the team is playing, uh, like on the ground, they're playing short passes. They're playing quick passes. When he's not playing, they almost revert back to long balls over the top, playing a little more slowly and build up.
00:06:24
Speaker
It's very confusing to me, but Diego Luna has really made a difference here. Why he wasn't getting minutes consistently before.
00:06:35
Speaker
anyone's guess. Uh, Pablo Mastroini recently said that I think it wasn't this match, this most recent match that the team played, but the one before that, that he, uh, made a great sliding tackle in the box to prevent something, uh, probably a certain goal or, you know, whatever it was. And that's when he'd learned what it was to be part of the team.
00:07:00
Speaker
Um, no, no, he's been part of the team and playing successfully for the last 10 match days or so. And a big part of their rise, but it was his, his, it was the one tackle goal line tackle. Yeah. I mean, good tackle, maybe a risky tackle, maybe unnecessary.
00:07:20
Speaker
But Pablo Mastreni was jumping for joy. But I think the knock against Luna, I suppose, has always been he had a little of that Dempsey problem where it's like, well, what position does he play? And it's like,
00:07:37
Speaker
And what does, I mean, how is he being used? So he's being used in like a left wing type role, but he's given some license to roam. He's not popping up like in striker positions for the most part, he is staying in the midfield.
00:07:53
Speaker
But he's playing pretty fluid, which isn't totally different from how, say, Jefferson Savarino is used at the team. So it's not like a tactically novel thing, but he's being given license to do what he wants to do. And you see him tuck in centrally a little bit more as a result.
00:08:14
Speaker
And is Luna the real difference here, or is there more going on? I mean, it also seems like Pablo Ruiz has really come into his own... You know, Demir Krylok, who was a player, again, who I feel like you had totally written off as Montero-esque the last time we talked, and he is like not at all. I mean, he seems to have really found a second life.
00:08:41
Speaker
So I've been quietly surfacing a hypothesis that Demir Krylic is one of the few players on this team who can make a difference in the way they play. Not because he's like an extremely good player at this point. I think injuries have taken a pretty big toll. And I don't think we're going to see the physical feats that maybe we saw in the past from him. And I think he's benefiting from the team playing on the ground more actually.
00:09:07
Speaker
because he's not constantly challenging for headers in the air. And he'll win a lot of them. But given his issue with nerves in his back, at what cost, right? Right. But I think Krylic is one of the smartest players on the team from a tactical perspective who can lead on the field. And sometimes that means we're playing with a passenger physically, but we're given a boost mentally and tactically.
00:09:35
Speaker
And it's, it's kind of a weird balance for me. Aside from that, there are not that many changes to the team. It, no major injuries, nobody else really stepping in, stepping up. It's, it's just the team's generally doing better. Of course, then, you know, the signing of a Rongo, we signed Nelson Palacio from Columbia. So things are looking, looking good in that regard.
00:10:00
Speaker
Um, but it feels like the changes happened before the open of the window.
Challenges in League's Cup Scheduling
00:10:05
Speaker
And I've got to say the tangent, I famously have never gone on tangents. Yeah. That's what you're absolutely known for is not going on to staying on task. Yeah. Um, but the transfer window opening and then league's cup starting. I don't know. I want to see these players and MLS a little more.
00:10:25
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I know. I do feel like the timing of League's Cup is sub-optimal. All along, I have been sort of suggesting that it would have been ideal, I think, to run League's Cup concurrent with the Gold Cup. While I realized that would have been a... That would have taken some of the shine, I suppose, off of League's Cup in that you would not have all your best players
00:10:54
Speaker
but it would time everything better. Like you would be coming out of the league's cup and then you would really have a proper second half of the season. And, uh, and I don't know, maybe the timing doesn't quite work as well with league at Mickey's, but you know, let's get into this league's cup to hold.
00:11:12
Speaker
thing.
00:11:28
Speaker
I think the winner
00:11:46
Speaker
It's like $2 million. So I don't know. Maybe it's you can justify it that way. But man, if I'm a League of Yankees fan, I am. What are we doing here? Like you're just taking the team away from us right after the season started. Yeah. It feels like a big marketing effort, right? Yeah. It's a preseason tour, but it's mid-season. Right. Exactly. It's a mid-season friendlies, but with a little extra visible money. Right. For the players. Right. Right.
00:12:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, it's it's it just feels very off to me from a competitive standpoint, you know, not to speak of, you know, when you have a tournament that's literally the entire league, so there's no qualification. There's none of this other stuff. It just feels very exhibitiony and
00:12:32
Speaker
And I don't know. I mean, I, I suspect you and I are feel similar about this, but it's, it is hard for me to imagine a world where I get really excited about playing in league. Like I can see getting excited about winning league's cup because winning trophies is winning trophies. And I would imagine at this point, almost any team that plays for a trophy is gonna
00:12:53
Speaker
get a good crowd just because there's a trophy on the line. That's sort of like where we are as a league, but I do wonder how many of these games, especially once we get out of the sort of mandatory season ticket part of the, of the tournament, like how well attended these games are going to be. Uh, as you may remember, when league's cup has happened before, uh, even in the years where there was qualification attendance was really bad. Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:23
Speaker
Speaking of which, I think RSL's only experience in League's Cup was the year that it was basically an imitational, right? Yeah. Well, so we have two experiences in League's Cup. The first was in 2019. And actually, that was the cat game. Right. That's what I thought. If you remember the cat game. Oh, yeah, I do. It ended with Mike Pecky being fired and Deloitte Hanson eventually being ousted.
00:13:45
Speaker
That was actually, I wouldn't imagine. Right. In some weird way that was maybe the most, one of the most important games in RSL history in terms of like the way it, like the cascading events that came from it. Yeah. Very impactful that way. Very weird, but very impactful.
00:14:01
Speaker
So it was funny, I asked Albert Rusnak about that game, if he remembered it. And he said, I have no idea what you're talking about. And I thought, well, that's weird. Why does he have no idea what I'm talking about? This seems like it would be an impactful thing. And I was like, yeah, Pecky was the coach. He's like, well, I was around then. I was like, I think it was 2019. He was like, yeah, I was definitely playing for RSL. He's like, well, I really, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't remember this game at all. And I went back. He didn't, I guess he was hurt or something because he didn't play in the game.
00:14:28
Speaker
But I did think it was, it was funny that this, this, that, so that was the first year of this tournament, I believe the subsequent, the next year, the next maybe. Yeah. The next time it was played, I guess was 2021. And you're saying RSL was in that one too.
00:14:43
Speaker
There was extra invitational purely exhibition matches that were co-branded as League's Cup, even though they were not part of the tournament. Very confusing. Yeah, I do remember this. I mean, I would rather League's Cup had not existed to this point and then it came in fully fledged with an idea and not four different things.
00:15:12
Speaker
I agree with you. I, in fact, said this when they first launched it. One of my big critiques of it is like, what, what is this Frankenstein tournament? They're, they're just inviting a bunch of random teams that they think will draw well and, and how, and it was just a very strange setup to begin with. And people were arguing, well, this is not the fully fleshed out version. You got to give it time. And it's like, but why are you launching a half baked idea?
00:15:37
Speaker
It's gonna just all it is is it and so they're trying to present this like this is a whole new tournament and yeah sure there is a element to it being new but it has all this baggage of three previous versions all of which were played under slightly different rules and under slightly different formats and or at least three maybe there's been four I don't actually know how many there have been but
00:15:59
Speaker
the the
00:16:21
Speaker
Once the game was played, the final was played in Las Vegas that year. And the Sounders ended up losing that game to Leon. And I know that we sort of talked ourselves into believing that that meeting helped the Sounders in Champions League because they played Leon the next year in Champions League. We talked ourselves into believing that. I don't know how true it is.
00:16:43
Speaker
But I don't know, I do find it hard to really grasp who is League's Cup 4 for any reason other than I get the monetary argument for it.
00:16:59
Speaker
There's, it gives you inventory in a lot of different ways. There's part in the, like, both league and Becky's and MLS are invested in sort of working together, but like from a competitive standpoint, is there, I don't know, do we, is there even a plausible real argument for this?
00:17:15
Speaker
You know, I don't have one. I'm biased against it, so I'm not likely to have one. So I guess I have to recognize that in myself. I'm not actively trying to find ways to defend this tournament, but it really does feel...
Strategic Goals of League's Cup
00:17:33
Speaker
I mean, it's exactly what you said. It's inventory for sponsorships, for ads, for TV.
00:17:41
Speaker
Um, and, uh, honestly, I don't even, I can't remember where this game's going to be broadcast. It's only on Apple. It's only on Apple. Oh, that's fine. Don't have to figure that out at least. Right. Right. Uh, that said,
00:17:55
Speaker
Are you looking at this game as like, what's your sense of from RSL? Do you think that they approach this as a serious competitive game or is this for them like a secondary tournament that they would maybe treat like the open cup?
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not seeing a lot of chatter around it, but that of course doesn't mean too much, especially with the way, I mean, it's weird to bring up Twitter in this conversation, but famously I don't go on tangent, so it must be important. But with the way Twitter has devolved and I've
00:18:31
Speaker
Taking a firm step back. And I think that's been healthy for me, especially good for you, new parenthood and all that, like happy to not be wasting time on Twitter, hold the baby instead. Uh, but, but that said like.
00:18:46
Speaker
parcel fans just are less active on Twitter now as a result. And once TweetDeck goes away, I think I'll probably stop using Twitter altogether. So it's hard for me to judge, like, what's the pulse right now? Some of the fan groups I'm active in, there's not a lot of excitement. But is that a community thing?
00:19:09
Speaker
Is that reflective of the larger whole? And I think we'll start to find that out, uh, I guess on Saturday. Yeah. Like we'll have a lot of non RSL fans very interested in that. And that's great. Uh, I hate that we're playing Monterey again, you know, like a vaguely meaningful match, but not truly meaningful. Is this the first time you've played them since the final? I don't know. Ooh.
00:19:36
Speaker
I think there may have been a friendly in there, but now I'm struggling to remember. I'm going to say yes, it's the first time, but know that that's probably inaccurate, but the first time can quote competitively.
00:19:49
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you know, the sounders also have some history with Monterey, not quite as. As a poignant of a, of a history that they played them. The
Sounders vs. Monterey Rivalry
00:20:00
Speaker
sounders became the second theme in MLS history to win a game in Mexico when a very reserve heavy lineup beaten Monterey a few days after Dallas had beaten.
00:20:11
Speaker
I think Puma's. That was I think in 2011 as well. And then the Sounders lost the home leg of that group stage to Monterey. And I think they played them again in another Champions League. I think they were drawn against them in the future Champions League as well. And I think they lost both. I'm pretty sure they lost both those games.
00:20:33
Speaker
What was the guy? Umberto Suazo. That's what I thought. Umberto Suazo famously came off the bench to score a couple of late goals against the Sounders.
00:20:45
Speaker
high Bosch, another upset bid that they had. Yeah, this is a great opportunity for one of those handshake memes. Yeah, exactly. And when you've been tortured by Umberto Suojo. Yeah. Yeah. But it is a bummer. You know, I've tried to crunch the numbers a few different ways, basically using the Champions League or the CONCACAF power rankings that they came up with like a coefficient. And our I'll have you know, our group is
00:21:11
Speaker
is the strongest group. There's almost no way to slice the data that would suggest otherwise. That'll be fun, right? Yeah. So Monterey is the top team in CONCACAF. And then RSL, I think the Sounders are the strongest two seed, if you just go, if you seed them by ranking. And RSL are the strongest three seed.
00:21:38
Speaker
And you can take the averages, you can take the median, you can take the raw ranking. And no matter what you do, if you're using CONCACAP's rankings, it's going to come out as this group being really quite tough. So I kind of feel like this game that the Sounders and RSL are playing could end up deciding which of the two teams goes through.
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're probably right. Um, and I guess that's fun. Uh, I guess, yeah. Might it be nice for ourselves to have a mid season break, um, maybe, uh, but might it also be nice to do well and have, I mean, we've been really good in the last 10 weeks or so.
00:22:21
Speaker
And the idea that we aren't playing a league game for what, three more weeks? The other thing I think is funny. Yeah. The other thing I find kind of amusing about the scheduling of this is RSL is ostensibly the top seed because they are hosting both of their games.
00:22:41
Speaker
but they have to play their second game on short rest, which has the added, I guess, benefit of meaning that if they don't advance, I think they're going to end up with almost four full weeks, a full month off. Yeah. It's really weird. Like, I don't get the timing of this. If MLS wanted a mid-season break, take a mid-season break, right?
00:23:05
Speaker
Right. The season is already so stretched out and weird. And with playoffs, teams get weirdly long breaks. I don't know. I agree with you. There was also this annoyance of the Gold Cup. The teams had to play six games, essentially, during the Gold Cup, which meant that some teams like the Sounders missed some significant players during that stretch. And
00:23:31
Speaker
I don't know if RSL was hurt by that, but it created weird congestion at different parts of the season. I don't know that League's Cup is an idea that's going to have a lot of legs. And I just feel like there's a lot of forces that make it a very awkward tournament.
00:23:50
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the best way to, it's just awkward at this point. And maybe it'll be fun when it all is said and done. Right. I'm not, not counting on that, of course, but would it be nice if it was fun? Sure. I love good TV. Yeah. I guess if we're in the era of peak TV, this is MLS like adding a spinoff. And I mean, I know it's in the middle of the writer's secret. Maybe that's another thing. Yeah. This is like secret invasion.
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, this is this is the secret invasion of the more of the MLS universe. Yeah, man
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think if the other thing that if I were to just kind of spitball the ideas that I had is that if MLS wanted to break into a, like a aperture and a class or it would make way more sense to throw this in the middle of it in the middle. Yeah. And maybe even forego one of the tournament playoffs for like, use the season as seating for this thing. And you can come up with like creative ways to have like this combined
00:24:51
Speaker
So it's meaningful, right? And not RSL hosts because they have good hosting capabilities for two teams, right? Right. Which I'm convinced is what it was. Well, I don't mind that, but I mean, as a Sounders fan, like the, the seating is artificial, right? And that's got to feel a little. Yeah.
00:25:10
Speaker
Well, it's certainly, it feels like it, it feels like it would have made a lot more sense to use the, the regular this, like the other thing that's silly is that, uh, once you get, so the round of 32 is based on whether or not you win your who hosts is based on whether or not you win your group, right? Which makes sense. But then once you get out of the round of 32 from around to 16, all the way to the final.
00:25:32
Speaker
the hosting rights are determined by the 2022 supporter shield standings. Oh, yeah. Which is like right for ourselves. That's for sure.
00:25:41
Speaker
Well, it's not, yeah, it's not great for the Sounders either. Uh, and that's part of one of the silly, it's just another silly thing about this that like the group, the strengths of the group are not based on current form.
Analysis of League's Cup Groups
00:25:51
Speaker
They're based on, on, uh, last season's form. Uh, and they're, and they're heavily influenced by regionality. And so it's just like you end up with groups that have really wide ranging, uh, strengths. And it's like,
00:26:06
Speaker
I don't know, it just feels very, the whole thing feels arbitrary. And, you know, I suppose, like I said, I reserve judgment. And if the Sounders get to like the quarterfinals, I am reserving my ability to suddenly turn off switch and be like, no, I'm more invested in this thing. Yeah, you can be invested in things that don't matter. We're all invested in a lot of things that don't really matter, right?
00:26:31
Speaker
But as a endeavor, I just find the whole thing to be really annoying, frankly, and distracting from what... MLS seems to have gone out of their way this year, especially, to create so many distractions from the regular season. Yeah. I imagine this is... Well, I didn't say this earlier, but can you imagine Leonel Messing coming to MLS if there wasn't a league's cup?
00:26:56
Speaker
And the prestige is certainly what attracted him. Well, it does feel a little bit convenient that his debut is going to come in League's Cup. And like he he could end up playing as many or maybe even depending on how many games he sits up during the regular season. You know, it's not even that far-fetched to think he'll play more games in League's Cup than in the regular season, which is just feels very backwards. Yeah.
00:27:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's classic MLS, right? One way or another, we're going to get there. Right, exactly. Well, Matt, thanks for hanging out and staying very focused and on task. Yeah, I didn't even talk about board games this time. I'll have you know. No, you didn't yet talk about board games, but you are a new father. Is there a game that you're really looking forward to busting open with your child in the next few years?
00:27:52
Speaker
No, not yet. It's still so new that the idea of playing games with this... It's impossible. Really adorable thing that can't reason or avoid pooping himself. Right. You know.
00:28:07
Speaker
I will be excited for that. I'm excited for the concept of it. There's so many great games that come out every year. I don't want to hold on to one now that I'll eventually get rid of. Right. That's a fair way of doing it. I think that's smart.
00:28:23
Speaker
Uh, and I'll, I'll tell you that as a parent of a 10 and seven year old, we are only now getting to the point where I can play games with them that I don't want to pull my hair out of like, Oh, you, you, you want to play the game of life again. Oh.
00:28:41
Speaker
You want to play shoots and ladders? Oh, sweet. Okay. So there's a great game that just came out from CMYK games, uh, called lacuna. It's a two player game. Uh, very like you just play on a big mat, uh, kind of divide up areas. Uh, very fun. I think everyone should check it out.
00:29:01
Speaker
Lacuna. Lacuna, yeah. L-A-C-U-N-A? That's the one. All right. I'm going to check that out. And you're saying it sounds like you're maybe suggesting I could let my two kids play each other.
Lacuna Board Game Recommendation
00:29:14
Speaker
I think you could, yeah. Oh, well, that's perfect. That's what I need. I need more things to keep them off screens, but not up in my business. Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, I'm very pro screen right now for myself. So here's what the kingdom still has me.
00:29:30
Speaker
Yeah, I remember famously, not famously, but I do remember at about three or four years old hearing when my kids were to three, my oldest was three or four years old. Other parents were talking about screen time and how they were struggling to keep their kids off screens. And I was like, this is not even an issue for us. Our kid doesn't care about screens. Oh, really? At three or four. It turned very quickly after that. Oh, okay. Okay.
00:29:55
Speaker
But like, it is one of those things where it's like, it's not an issue until all of a sudden it's the only issue you care about. Yeah. Because you start to become very self-aware of how much time your kid is looking at a screen. Yeah. I mean, I grew up not, I mean, I don't want to say I grew up in front of a screen, but I certainly had a lot of computer time. Well, yes. Yeah. We're Gen X latchkey kid generation. I'm a millennial.
00:30:23
Speaker
Oh, sorry, I take it back. We are both Oregon Trail generation. Oh, yeah, that I think is fair to say. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, there's one option for you. Exactly. All right. Well, thank you, Matt. Where can people read and follow you?
00:30:40
Speaker
Yeah. So while such soccer sentinel, it's was such dot soccer, one of the best boutique, uh, TLDs out there dot soccer, big fan. Uh, and then I guess even find me on Twitter at the crossbar RSL, but don't expect anything exciting there. And then I've got a newsletter, uh, called don't eat the meeples. My, one of my other favorite TLDs, uh, dot email. So you can find board games dot email redirects over to my sub sack. So.
00:31:07
Speaker
Okay. There you go. Good. Good. Well, thank you, Matt, for doing this. And I'm sure we'll be hearing from you plenty in the years and days, maybe not days to come, but soon enough. Yeah. I mean, if you want me to just talk about random soundest games, I'd be happy to. I can't promise I'll watch them, but yeah. No, we might. Maybe that'll be a nice sub-stack subscriber special, is that you and I just talk about board games and stuff. All right. That sounds good.
00:31:35
Speaker
All right, well, thank you so much for joining us, Matt. I am Jeremiah Shan, signing off for the whole nose audio at this team. We will catch you next time.
00:32:44
Speaker
We love you. Let's win another one!