Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the runner's podium. Very excited and honored to have Moritz Kena today. an incredible runner, 223 marathoner, sub 70 minute half.
Speaker: Also, you know, coach, really active in the run community. Founder of the International Run Club in Zurich, which seems to be a really, really cool thing that you're doing. And really grateful to have you on the podcast today. Thanks so much for joining.
Speaker: Thanks, David, for reminding me. Yeah, man, I've been admiring you on ah socials for a long time and everything that you're doing. So let's jump right in. We, you know, the runner's podium, we just rocked through eight categories, top three in each category. And let's start with your top three most memorable running moments.
Speaker: Yeah, sure. and I think definitely the marathon PB that I ran in Berlin. I'm sure, I mean, running a PB on any distance is amazing for me. The marathon always had this special place because it it is my main distance.
Speaker: So running a PB there was just amazing. Also with a lot of people from my running club, we actually also ran it. So we were a group, I think, of like 10, 15 people. on site or a couple of people ran it, a couple of people were spectate. So that was just a very special moment emotionally as well, because it's always nice when a plan or something you've trained for for so long that actually works out.
Speaker: and I think number two was when I got the six-star finisher medal in Tokyo. Wow, cool. That was also very special. um Not only because of the six-star finisher medal, because I also think Tokyo or the Tokyo Marathon are generally racing in Japan as a very special place in my heart, if you will, because it's culturally very different. Yeah.
Speaker: Generally, but i especially when it comes to running, the density of the field is incredible. like There's so many good and fast runners. And just the running culture in Japan in general, I think is something that is amazing that I wish to see more in Europe, but also in in America, and quite frankly.
Speaker: and So that was really special to to get my six-star medal there. Also being the fastest six-star finisher actually on the day, which was also acquired to quite a cool moment. That's amazing.
Speaker: Yeah, and then I think the third one, difficult to to choose because there have been quite a few. But I would probably say, now this sounds a bit like maybe like a low-key event, but ah during COVID, when we had the lockdowns also over here, we were still allowed in Switzerland to meet outside and and run. And I remember we organized these sort of time trials in in the lake area in Zurich.
Speaker: And actually doing these kind of races with just a group of friends and people who found together during that moment was very special because... And I roll bunched up inside all day or like every day and you was just work from home. so actually then organizing almost like a bit of a series where we try to improve our running. That was also a very special moment for me because it was an outlet to get like social contact during that very difficult time.
Speaker: That's so cool. What about your top three running shoes? and It really depends. I really have to say that's that's a hard one to answer straight up because it really depends on what kind of running I'm doing. and I would surely say for for marathons, I'd probably go with the AlphaFly. just works best for me.
Speaker: um On the trails, I actually really like the Salomon Pulsar line or Salomon Aslan Pulsar line because they're very light, very direct. Not everyone's cup of tea because some people like to have a bit of underfoot protection when they're on trails because of the rocks and uneven terrain. But I actually kind of like the directness because I feel like i have more control over how I place my foot when I run, for example, downhill.
Speaker: And i think on an everyday shoe, I would still say the Nike Invincible runs are some of favorite ones, but they stopped producing them. So now i had to switch to the Romero Also work well, but I think the Invincible runs are, I probably had like 15 pair of those over the years. So they're they're kind of they kind of work well.
Speaker: So funny, I had another guest that said the same thing where they were like the invincibles, they went to a store when they you know and and bought like all of them they could you know when they started to phase them out.
Speaker: Yeah, i actually did I actually bought some on secondary market. The problem is always when you buy shoes and they're a bit older, they tend to fall apart more quickly. yeah If you have a shoe completely new, they usually last for me like 800 to 1,000 kilometers or like off to a year more or less.
Speaker: But of course, if they're a bit older, I think half a year ago, bought a secondary market, one of the last few pairs they had. And they were maybe 300 kilometers. And like after two or three months, they started to fall apart because the shoe is just past its due date.
Speaker: Do you do a lot of um running on the trails, even when you're training for a road race? Well, I try to break up my year in three different sort of phases, if you will. Usually the spring and autumn is reserved for marathon running or for marathon training. And then over the summer, obviously in Switzerland, there's a couple of beautiful mountains here. and So trail running is also quite a big part of it. So in the summer, I usually run the trails because...
Speaker: Gives you a bit of variety in training. It's good for and aerobic adaptations. And yeah, it's just just something different and less. It's a bit more fun, I would assume. I mean, I still would still run it competitively, but it's a bit less, you know, like you're less worried about specific times. It's more about, you know, like really trying your best and do it like a crazy climb. Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker: Totally. What about your top three running moments that didn't go as planned? and actually think the first time when I ran the New York City Marathon, that was in 2017, was I think my second marathon ever.
Speaker: I was injured before, had Achilles tendon problems, couldn't properly train. And then I, you know ah naive as I was at the time, was like, I'm still going to run for like a PPE and paid for it they're in a hard way.
Speaker: and Really, really suffered. I remember going over the Queensboro Bridge into Manhattan and then it's still a long time from there. like It is I really, really don't like about the New york City Marathon that you're running down the first avenue and I think back is on the third or something like this.
Speaker: And then you can literally like the block system that messes you with your head because you can literally count streets Because you know you're operating on a grid and then if you're suffering, that's terrible because you can sort of count. You you know you have to go to, I don't know, 150th Street. I don't know exactly how many yeah it is. yeah And you just know that it's a long way to go.
Speaker: don't know. Didn't go to plan at all. um A second very good example is when I signed up for a trail race in Norway. That was, I mean, no game wrong, beautiful race, but it was a friend of mine convinced me to do it. But then she unfortunately, well, unfortunately she couldn't join. She didn't join because then she opted to run European championships in the marathon and won a bronze medal. It fair it fit fair fair reason not to join. Yeah.
Speaker: But there I was also like, I was actually training quite specifically then for trail in the hope that I could perform well, but it was so technical over these fjords in no way that I was, like I was out like, that's just too far away from what I'm specializing in.
Speaker: And yeah, that was then way longer than I thought it would take. And that was just a software fest from, like half point halfway point, it was just, that was no longer fun at some point. i was asking myself, the hell am I doing here?
Speaker: On some floor somewhere in Norway, out in nowhere, it's like, why am I even here? What what happened? and Yeah. Yeah. And then I think the third one... I would have to choose either between the Boston Marathon or London. um Both were okay i good back to me wrong still good races. was still happy with the result in the end, but both times I i had a bit of months I'd go with before Boston and before London. I also had but came back from an injury, so I wasn't really being in peak shape.
Speaker: And yeah yeah, that often then leads to less than ideal ah races where just at the end you have to suffer a lot. and Yeah, these are just um didn't go to plan. I mean, to be fair, i very probably should have planned differently to be precise.
Speaker: Anything that you do, particularly when you're in those super tough moments to try to pull yourself out and try to keep going? I just always say you you should always finish, except, of course, if you have physical issues that prevent you to do so, right? If you're in a lot of pain, not because you're tired, right? That that sort of muscle pain, everyone who's run a marathon knows it right at the end where... Yeah, it hurts.
Speaker: Yeah, it hurts. But it's like, it's more, i would call it, it's more like a generic pain. Like it's a bit everywhere, like your entire legs are just really dead. and But of course, if I would get like some specific nickel, like the need like, you know, if I would feel something specific really hurts, then I might actually pull out. But other than that, i always tell myself myself, you just finish this. You know, like there's no no time for quitters. Even if the time is not what you wanted, you're just going to finish it because you you went there, you put in all the effort, so may as well enjoy the whole full the whole distance.
Speaker: So I'm sort of telling myself, look, now you just have to dig in. Afterwards, you have a break. there or I usually take a two or three week break after after each marathon specifically anyways. Yeah. So I anyways, then always like, just just get it done. And then you can be angry, get a beer at the finish line and, you know.
Speaker: I like that. Just get it done. Just get it done. Yeah. What about your top three pieces of essential gear sort outside of shoes? Yeah. A heart rate monitor in training, i have it all the time because I do a lot training heart rate based specific for certain adaptations that I try to achieve. Heart rate, in my opinion, is a better is' a better metric to use for training purposes.
Speaker: And i mean, it's not really gear equipment, but gels, generally nutrition tools, meaning gels or shakes or like heart mixes that you can take during training. it it's It's a huge part of training.
Speaker: of your everyday life when youre when you run quite a bit. Or it should be actually for everybody because fueling is the basis upon you build everything. and And third one, I have to be honest, I'm a very like minimalistic guy. like a don't bring I don't have too many gadgets. um But I don't know, maybe sunglasses sometimes or no, actually better one, sun lotion.
Speaker: I have to say that's actually, done it a bit too many times myself where I forget to put it on and that can really fry you. um So sun lotion, I would say, especially now that it's given it summer. Do you use just like a Garmin or some kind of like just branded like chest strap for your heart rate monitor? Yes.
Speaker: I just, I mean, the Garmin watch obviously is always on me anyways for the training, but that for me is is an essential that nowadays everybody has, right? I mean, of course, there is a case to be made to run without a watch occasionally, if especially if you're paystressing a bit too much. and Then sometimes it's good to just put the watch somewhere away and just go with it with how you feel.
Speaker: All right. What about your top three running pet peeves, running culture or for personal training, the world of running? There would be a couple. um I think that for me, the the first pet peeve or the biggest one is is is is more that they're sort of saying more is more or volume is king, basically, or the chasing of arbitrary volume goals. So either people say, I want to run 60 kilometers a week or 100 miles a week or stuff like this, right? Where they just set these arbitrary goals and sort of say, I need to do this in order to perform or to be acknowledged or to get sort of a confidence boost from external factors. I think that's something I really go against because
Speaker: Yeah, sports history is really important. How long has someone been running? Has this person been has this person been running before? has a background, for example, in in in football or American football or anything like this? It plays a huge role how much volume someone actually can tolerate.
Speaker: and So for me, running volume... um has to be looked at on a very individual basis. And then when people compare themselves, especially online, right against someone else who runs a bit more, and then they feel like, oh, I have to do this as well in order to run fast. But very often that's actually not the case. Of course, you need to run a certain volume to to be fast in certain distances. But just start chasing these arbitrary goals, I don't think that's a long-term strategy for success.
Speaker: The second one is is is is is pace obsession, which is something I think is also very much fueled by um pass social media, where people you know want to flex what kind of pace they're on. And I think it's it's just so necessary because I keep on telling also the athletes who I coach that you're ultimately training an adaptation, but you're not training a pace.
Speaker: The pace is only there to inform you do you, to the best of the knowledge you have, train the right adaptations. But you never do it to have afterwards a cool sort of average on Strava or whatever you use as a social media platform to share your runs. So that's something I'm also bit like, you know, when people then, you know, obsess. So for example, they go for an EZ run and then the EZ run has to be exactly that pace. Otherwise, they start to, you know, obsess about it a bit too much.
Speaker: And yeah I think the third one for me is people who
Speaker: run fast or let's say don't don't feel their workouts properly. I think that's the low-carb crowd with things who thinks, oh, I don't need to eat carbs or like I have a salad for lunch and I'm smashing an interval session in the evening. and I understand where the thinking is coming from and some people clearly also have other...
Speaker: psychological conditions that need to be factored in. So I don't want to shame everybody who has this sort of, um let's say, ah mentality. But I just think that the feeling that by eating less, you get faster or you look more lean or you look more in a certain way, that is something that I really try to go against because ultimately, with proper fueling, your long-term gets healthier and also way faster.
Speaker: Yeah, it's ah that's a dangerous road to go on, like you said, long term and also just in the race, like, you know, how not fueling properly is so, so detrimental to your performance.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not only in a race, it's also in training. Like I so i took over athletes it now, is in my I'm working full-time as a running coach. like And there i I took over athletes who are not used to fuel even hard sessions, right? And then I'm sometimes feeling they're also taking away training quality.
Speaker: by not fueling properly. Or then they also mess up a bit their recovery. Of course, it's not black and white, but it's not like either you fuel really well or everything goes to shit basically. Sorry for swearing, but it's not binary. um But the better you fuel, the better your training performance will be and the better your recovery process will be. So there's only upsides in in fueling your sessions well and the right way.
Speaker: Do you have a general, like, if a run is over 90 minutes, then you would suggest to your coaching clients that they fuel or over a certain a threshold where you recommend fueling?
Speaker: Yes. and there is Of course, there's there's multiple like the dimensions you have to look at. It's how long is and a workout, obviously, in time. Because ah you look at fueling primarily from a time perspective, less from a distance perspective.
Speaker: and But then also the second dimension is your speed, the intensity you're going up. Because the harder you run, the more calories you burn and the more the faster you are, and also the more carbs you burn. So it's also a multitude in how you fuel a specific session. Because if you run really hard threshold or aerobic threshold, and now being more specific, of course you're going to use way more carbs. So you also need to fuel with more carbs. Or if you do Vietamax work, it which is above anaerobic threshold, your will your carb um oxidation rate, meaning how many grams of carbs you're burning per hour, will explode in order to produce the lactate needed to sustain the effort. and
Speaker: So there, obviously, they try to fuel us with a lot a lot of of carbs. and a general rule of thumbs is hard to give because that can be, again, so individual. So we usually test this, especially for...
Speaker: more high performance athletes, we usually send them to a lab to see, okay, how many calories do they burn per hour when they run at a certain intestine intensity, but also to see how many carbs do they burn out of the calories they they use on ah on ah on an hourly or even half hour basis. So it's difficult just to give you a general like description, a blanket description, because human bodies are so individual, right? So it's it'ss hard to say.
Speaker: Totally, that's fair. As a general comment, it's better if you fuel something than other, especially hard sessions. Gotcha. What about your top three favorite races? It really depends on what on what from what angle I look at them, because they all have their unique, say let's say, characteristics. I would say in terms of of vibes, pure vibes, I would say New York for sure, or Boston. They for me are, even though, of course, it's not the same, but in terms of of atmosphere, very similar, because...
Speaker: I know the Americans just have it. they They figured it out how to throw a really good event and the people are there showing up. Doesn't matter if you run like two and a half hours or six hours, the people are there making a huge party. I think this is something we can learn from in Europe a bit more because it's a bit more quiet and a bit more, sometimes even a bit more civil, but you'd like it a bit rowdy in a race, if you ask me.
Speaker: So I would say from from a from a pure atmosphere perspective, I would say definitely New York. When it comes to fast course, where you can really run good times, definitely Berlin or also London. But yeah, I would probably go with Berlin because that's where run my PB.
Speaker: And in terms of scenery, I'd be like, okay, where you see the most, I would go with a trail race in Switzerland, which is called Sierr Sinale, which is actually in three weeks from now.
Speaker: um Very iconic race. It's actually older than the Berlin Marathon. I think it's like the 53rd edition or something like this. It's ah quite a historic race. and All the best trail runners are there. So it's really, really competitive as well. But you run under the but like three mountains that are probably 10 or 12,000 feet high.
Speaker: So you actually run under them and it's a huge race and people are like shouting at you, like waiting on these trails. It's just an amazing atmosphere and the views are incredible. Awesome. Those are good ones.
Speaker: um what And that kind of dovetails to what are your top three favorite places to run? and I would definitely, number one, I would say St. Moritz in Switzerland. It's where we go for altitude training and it's just beautiful. Like it's it's hard to find a more beautiful place to run than St. Moritz. It's in Ingadin, it's like a longer valley um in in the Alps, in the Swiss Alps.
Speaker: So you have really long routes, but you can also run on on the mountains there, which go up to like almost was like 3,500, 3,600 meters, which is I think like 10,000 feet something if I have my maths correctly there.
Speaker: um So yeah yeah, that's a very special place also because there's a lot of professional stairs. So for example, this summer we were sharing the gym a lot with Grant Fisher, you know, like you have all the pros, the real professionals buzzing around. So it's a very special atmosphere.
Speaker: And then I would still say, like, i have to say I have really fond memories of New York because not only the racing there is amazing, but I but i also, and one of my favorite moments was the day before the marathon going to Central Park for a shakeup run, like at five in the morning or something like this. Amazing because it's a huge city. It's a busy city. It's it's it's a bit crazy city as well, right? But in the morning, it's so quiet.
Speaker: And I always feel like in the morning when you go out for a run in a big city like that, you get sort of the true nature of the city, if that makes sense. yeah So I would say New York is actually a place I really like to run just because of the atmosphere. And yeah like I said, it's the... Yeah, I totally agree. Living here, I agree. Yeah, special city. And then i would say, i mean, there's so many good ones to choose from.
Speaker: Sounds like Japan was... Japan was amazing, but it's it's a bit... it For me, this is, again, it's like more a city city marathon. So it's kind of, you know, what I would try to find out a bit of contrasting examples because Moritz is training camp at altitude, which is special. And then, yeah, like New York new york City is for like city marathon, like this this kind of environment, which is also really cool to run in. And Tokyo goes into similar...
Speaker: yeah culturally very different to New York but it has a similar that's the atmosphere because it's a huge city and New York is small in comparison to Tokyo. Yeah, I mean, I would still say this year i've actually been the first time to South Africa for a training camp. Oh, cool. That was also really special because you're at 2,000 meters above sea level or 2,100 so that's like 600,000 feet something like this yeah and it's all like similar in Kenya like this very large like the long red dirt roads um with amazing like animal sightings everywhere so it's also that also was really special cool and what about your top three recovery tools or foods
Speaker: I think the best food I can recommend to everybody is the chocolate milk after a session because it has this perfect ratio of three grams of carbs to one gram of pork protein. Very often, that's kind of the mix. It's very easily affordable. So I say to people who don't want to spend crazy amount on on on recovery shakes, as I just buy a chocolate milk at a supermarket, it gives you basically everything you need, especially if you're like me, who is not specifically hungry directly after a session or after a run.
Speaker: So that's something I can highly recommend. Then, honestly, the best recovery tool, in my opinion, is just put your legs up on the couch and just chill. Just do nothing. Because, you know, I think there is this tendency to go for gadgets, right? To do like recovery boots or ice baths and so on and so and forth. But for example, ice baths have...
Speaker: It can also have a very bad impact on your recovery depending on how you apply them. So it's not, you know, people like it because it numbs everything, but it also delays the response of your immune system, which can also be ah hindering your adaptations. and So for me, it's actually feet up on the couch and a book. Love it. Probably the best you can do for your body and drink enough water, just keep stay hydrated and enough protein, obviously.
Speaker: i think the third one, probably sometimes a pizza and a beer. You know, like sometimes I do this myself when I had like a really good long run or, you know, like it doesn't have to be an alcohol, can also be an alcohol-free beer, but just something also to sometimes let a bit loose, get a bit of couple of calories in. Pizzas are usually quite good for that because they a bit of fat, have a bit of carbs, they have a bit of protein as well, but the cheese. So yeah, sometimes also you just do something that feels good can also be really good for recovery. If...
Speaker: at least for the mind sometimes. We rocked through the categories. Moritz, can you just leave us with one last thought for runners? You know, you have so much experience and all that you've done. Can you leave us with one last thought?
Speaker: Yes, I think what I always tell to everybody who I also coach is... train where you are and not where you want to be. And I see this a lot because comparison is everywhere these days where people think they have to you know like run a certain time in order to validate their own efforts or they feel like they have to clear a certain bar in order to be part of a community as another example. um I think it's really, really good to have goals, um but to be mindful of where you currently are and where you want to go and be mindful of how long it may take.
Speaker: Because None of us, or I still believe that none of us want to be a runner who runs a specific time. We want to be the person who shows up every day to get there. And I think that's where actually the biggest, let's say, and fulfillment lies in.
Speaker: It's just being the person who shows up, who does the work and then achieves your goal. Sometimes you make it, sometimes you won't make it. But that's why I think in in a very cheesy way to say that that the path is what makes you stronger or what defines you and not the race itself.
Speaker: Beautiful. Love it. Moritz, thank you so much. This was so fun. Really, really awesome. Honored to have you on the podcast. Thanks so much for joining. Thanks.
