Transcript
Speaker: Welcome back to the show.
Speaker: Fantastic to have everyone back here again.
Speaker: And this week, super excited to be sitting down with Anthony from McGuinness Racing, host and organizer of Beat the Beast that we did a podcast on a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker: Anthony, great to meet you, mate.
Speaker: Thanks for coming on to the show.
Speaker: No, likewise.
Speaker: Thanks for having me.
Speaker: Hey, one of the things that was kind of obvious as we, I guess, as I got to watch you interact with a bunch of the players through that Beat the Beast a couple of weeks ago, you've obviously been around for a while, a bit of an old hat at Zed.
Speaker: So tell us about how you got into Zed.
Speaker: When did you start playing the game?
Speaker: Yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker: Not as old as some, but I've been around a while, I suppose.
Speaker: I think it was sort of June, July, 2021.
Speaker: So I think like a lot of Aussies, Hamish and Andy podcast, a bunch of Aussie comedy, an Aussie comedy pair.
Speaker: That's where I first heard about it.
Speaker: Looked into it and that was right about the time of the million dollar drop.
Speaker: as well when Zed was giving away stacks of Butte Genesis and so I thought hey that could be a fun way to to get involved I signed up and like everyone else got the email which said hey you've won a horse and I thought I was in but unfortunately I wasn't like like most people I missed out but I think you know it worked from like a you know from a marketing perspective I think the the thought of having a horse was was too much so I dived in and bought a horse and
Speaker: It was a donkey and, you know, the rest is history.
Speaker: The rest is history.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Maybe Zed should take some guerrilla marketing techniques from old Zed.
Speaker: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker: I mean, I don't know how many people fell for it, but I'm sure it was accidental.
Speaker: But, you know, it was almost that thrill of thinking I had one, you know, I was then in.
Speaker: Interestingly enough, and it might be worth just for those who are listening that weren't around back then, and this was before my time, before I started playing, but I have heard this story a bunch of times.
Speaker: Why don't you tell everyone exactly what happened and what went down with that email?
Speaker: Yeah, so they decided, I think, as a marketing tool, as a way to get a whole bunch of new users in, that they'd give away a million dollars worth of Butte Genesis horses.
Speaker: I think all you had to do was sort of set up a stable and sort of off you go.
Speaker: And then everyone was awaiting the big date when you'd find out whether you'd get a free purchase.
Speaker: Jenny or not and unfortunately the intern at Zed or whoever it was accidentally sent the hey you've successfully you've won a horse to every single person and so as I'm sure you can imagine that caused a bunch of uproar and discontent in the community as everyone realised they didn't actually win a Genesis so yeah it was quite a wild ride I'm sure Twitter was calm and measured
Speaker: Oh, as said, Twitter always is.
Speaker: As said, Twitter always is.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: So interestingly enough, times have evolved.
Speaker: Zed seem to be making less of those types of issues than what they were 12, 18 months ago.
Speaker: They seem to be quite common.
Speaker: There seems to be a lot more quality execution coming out of a team these days, which is wonderful to see.
Speaker: No, absolutely.
Speaker: I think the other thing that's changed so much from back then is the quality of the communications.
Speaker: I mean, you can, you know, they're far from perfect.
Speaker: No one is.
Speaker: But, you know, the engagement that you get from Facundo, from Ryan, from all of them, and the responsiveness that we're seeing in some of the changes to different conditional bands, to different types of races, you know, I think that they're really on a bit of a roll and, you know, you know,
Speaker: I think they're as responsive as ever and, you know, less of those, less mistakes than, you know, we saw in the early days.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker: I'd be fascinated to talk to, you know, someone in ops at Zed.
Speaker: I'd be really interested to understand what metrics they track.
Speaker: to get all their data.
Speaker: Like I know BG talks about and publishes that fantastic data set, you know, new stables, races, paid races, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: But I'd be fascinated to understand what Z are tracking internally in the team.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And how they're using that.
Speaker: It certainly sounds like, yeah, it certainly sounds like Ryan's got, you know, a pretty strong sort of data background or interest in data.
Speaker: I think it was a couple of weeks ago he went on to the Arbitrage podcast and
Speaker: you know, certainly sounded as though, you know, he was speaking from, you know, from, you know, the basis of pretty strong evidence and data and all the rest of it.
Speaker: So, yeah, I mean, and even in recent days, I've seen him posting a bunch of charts, which, you know, obviously from some sort of internal system they have tracking race volume and total e-spend and all those sorts of things.
Speaker: It's a data-driven business, basically.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, hopefully.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's, I guess, must be the data that they're terrified of the potential in my stable, so that's why I get the auto nerf on all my horses, no doubt.
Speaker: I know that feeling.
Speaker: So in the stable, how many horses are you hanging on to?
Speaker: Like how many horses are in the paddock?
Speaker: And how many of those actually see the track?
Speaker: Let's have a look.
Speaker: Of course, I do have a Z open in one of my tabs, always do.
Speaker: Even 300.
Speaker: We can go.
Speaker: Even 300.
Speaker: So I don't sell a lot.
Speaker: I certainly do sell, but I don't sell to the bots or, you know, at ridiculous prices.
Speaker: But even, I think it was last night, I got an offer of 0.06 on a horse that I raced occasionally.
Speaker: And, you know, that's $100 US.
Speaker: So, you know, I thought I could use that and reinvest into some breeding.
Speaker: So, you know, I might make a sale even in this market, you know, once a week or once every two weeks or something like that.
Speaker: But generally speaking, I'm holding on to them.
Speaker: Do you get an offer and then stop and go, hang on, what have I missed?
Speaker: Sometimes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I sat on that particular offer for probably about 12 hours because it came out of the blue.
Speaker: It wasn't even a horse that was listed.
Speaker: Normally, it's a horse that's listed and you get an offer well below ask.
Speaker: But it came out of nowhere.
Speaker: It was a horse that was sitting idle in my stable for months and months.
Speaker: And every now and then, maybe on a Friday night, let's dust this horse off and see what it's got because I'm sure there's heaps in there that I've just written off too early and discovered that it's actually a pretty decent double up horse in C3.
Speaker: So it just started entering in and I think it was
Speaker: getting something like 70% double up rate in six horse double ups.
Speaker: But I just didn't have the patience to sit there and enter $2.50 double ups all day every day with the amount of horses I have.
Speaker: So I got the 0.06 offer.
Speaker: I sort of mulled on it for a bit.
Speaker: I actually counted for a couple of hours and then went, nah, look, just take it and run.
Speaker: It's not often you get $100 for a horse that you hadn't been racing in this current market.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This is true.
Speaker: I sold a horse this week for the first time in ages.
Speaker: One of my listings and I had that, oh, someone bought it.
Speaker: And it was like a 0.01, but it was like a Z30 odd buterin or something.
Speaker: And so I was like, wow, someone actually paid that for it.
Speaker: And then I turn around and I see they're hitting 1v1s with it.
Speaker: And I'm like, oh, what have I missed?
Speaker: What have I done?
Speaker: Yeah, now they're in there.
Speaker: I had a horse in my stable actually last night that I decided to race for the first time.
Speaker: So it was sitting listed for probably months at 0.03 or something like that.
Speaker: I decided to give it a run and now it's winning $5 non-conditionals because it's a 1.0 breed, $5 C2 marathon races.
Speaker: So I just basically hadn't raced it in 2.0 and I quickly delisted that.
Speaker: So...
Speaker: They're out there sitting on, on Hawkey.
Speaker: There's absolute bargains, including, you know, probably those in my own stable, but I'm just, that are sitting there gathering dust.
Speaker: Well, I probably shouldn't do this, but I just checked that horse and, uh, he's actually squared breaking even with it on one V one.
Speaker: So well played, well played to that person.
Speaker: Um, I don't know.
Speaker: What do you think of the one V ones?
Speaker: And I,
Speaker: I was lamenting earlier that maybe there should be a switch, like an Alcoholics Anonymous car setting that you can't blow into the thing.
Speaker: Like I need a switch in Z that removes all access to 1V1s.
Speaker: I found myself doing some crazy stuff to them.
Speaker: Yeah, look, I don't think my experience, you know, I'm not alone in my experience.
Speaker: In the first couple of days, I was just loving it.
Speaker: I was like, this is the new meta.
Speaker: You know, this is what you should be doing on a Friday and Saturday night.
Speaker: You know, the thrill of, you know, $15, $25 and $50 buy-ins.
Speaker: It's just pure de-gen fun.
Speaker: But, of course, it only took a couple of days for people to work them out.
Speaker: And, you know, it took me probably a bit longer than that.
Speaker: So I ended up losing a...
Speaker: basically my entire bankroll entering, you know, variance horses or, you know, horses with too much variance and, you know,
Speaker: Now, you know, you just see the same horses sitting in them all day, every day, and they've certainly lost a bit of that fun because I'm just, I'm not going to go in them anymore.
Speaker: So I think they've got utility.
Speaker: I think that, you know, for me, it's sort of a bit of fun with maybe some mates or Zed mates, you know, where you can throw them in and sort of have bragging rights, you know, grudge matches, if you will.
Speaker: But pretty rare that I'll go in them just open slather now because, you know, people have worked them out and,
Speaker: And my stable's pretty variance heavy.
Speaker: So I just don't have the stable to compete with those that are just absolutely raking it in.
Speaker: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?
Speaker: Because there's,
Speaker: the early days of the 2.0 racing meta, and, you know, a lot of people still are talking about variants, but there's certainly a path now for stability horses as well, which is pretty exciting.
Speaker: That's just part of the fun of the game to figure that out and see how far it goes.
Speaker: So with all your glue or non-currently raced horses, do you have a strategy for them?
Speaker: Do you have a plan for those horses?
Speaker: Like how do you go about...
Speaker: planning for them or they just chuck them in the back of the stable and see what happens later?
Speaker: Yeah, but, yeah, they just sit there, you know, every now and then, even last night, Spooge ran a little Zed Resurrection tourney with C5 horses from, you know, 100 to 150.
Speaker: That provided a chance to dust a few off, but largely speaking, they're just sitting there doing nothing and gathering dust.
Speaker: Maybe eventually there'll be something I'd say they probably won't be, you know, just put them down as a sunk cost as failed breeds and, you know.
Speaker: I don't have much hope for them.
Speaker: Not every horse can be a winner.
Speaker: No, that's it.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: I mean, back in the old, you know, particularly breeding 2.0, I was breeding everything.
Speaker: You know, I was loving it.
Speaker: I was throwing stuff together and, you know, that produces a lot of donkeys.
Speaker: So, you know, they're sitting there doing not a whole lot and I think that will continue to be the case.
Speaker: But, you know, there's no reason to sell them for $4 either.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: It seems to be nice to have, like, to leverage that 1v1 format and have a, like, a challenge, a challenge match.
Speaker: where I could ping you and go, hey, I'm going to take this horse on and 1v1.
Speaker: And you can't get sniven or whatever.
Speaker: Two people can... That'd be good for the streamers, all sorts of things, right?
Speaker: Yeah, and the other thing that we hear is coming soon in the announcement from the other day, the conditional bans all the way through classes.
Speaker: So that's going to provide utility to a bunch of horses.
Speaker: Obviously, currently, the...
Speaker: The sort of 400 to 425 type bands are there.
Speaker: But to have something that allows people to continue to progress through, I think will add some utility and probably mean that some of those horses might find a bit of value.
Speaker: You know, if you've got a 430 or a 330 or something like that, it's really useless at the moment.
Speaker: There's no way that, you know.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: the majority of level 430 horses can race against level 500 horses.
Speaker: So, you know, who knows?
Speaker: You might find some gems once we can run some of those tighter conditional bands.
Speaker: Yeah, and hoping so, because I don't have the time or the inclination to just grind up horses.
Speaker: So I've got some good, like I've got some good 440s.
Speaker: that sort of mid-tier as well.
Speaker: And the interesting thing, like I've noticed there is a lot of levelled-out horses in each class.
Speaker: Like people are just jamming up to 400, 500, and there's not a lot of people levelling up into the next class.
Speaker: It's one of the things I think down the line we sort of still need to work on.
Speaker: But I've got a horse that's capped that I want to level up,
Speaker: but it's just capped, can't go because of its Evo.
Speaker: So.
Speaker: Yeah, interesting.
Speaker: What do you do?
Speaker: Keep grinding out double ups.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: No, I'm not in that scenario.
Speaker: Actually, I do have a level 500 that I think is capped out, but I've got no interest in cupping it up into C1.
Speaker: But yeah, I think, you know,
Speaker: the group of horses that will be there at that max level just continues to grow as well.
Speaker: So, you know, that means what might be dominating now, you know, it's operating on borrowed time.
Speaker: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker: That's true.
Speaker: Speaking of time, though, Ant, like we hear a lot about –
Speaker: You know, the aging's coming and apparently with aging coming, there is going to be faster progression through the levels as well, which would be nice.
Speaker: But sort of leads me to that question.
Speaker: I've asked a few people like when you sort of acquire a horse or you breed a horse, like what's the useful lifespan of that horse?
Speaker: Is it something that should run, I don't know, 2000 races, 3000 races?
Speaker: I'm just kind of curious to get everyone's take.
Speaker: Like 3000 races, a lot of racing.
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: And you know, my suspicion is that whatever they come out with in terms of aging will probably be pretty generous initially.
Speaker: Um, you know, probably too generous.
Speaker: I certainly think that that's the case with stamina, even with the recent adjustment.
Speaker: They're obviously and probably quite sensibly careful about not wanting to absolutely nerf the value of horses, but I think it's pretty clear that the vision that they've outlined is one with shorter lifespans.
Speaker: I think Paekwondo said that he wants to make it a breeding game, not a racing game at one point.
Speaker: That gives you a pretty clear vision.
Speaker: indication of of a pretty short lifespan for a horse so maybe it's a a couple of months or something like that whatever that adds up to you know that's probably about a thousand races depending on how hard you hit it um i think it also obviously depends on the the type of horse you know i think that you know i've got a horse at the moment that that's going really well a 3.0 breed um that's winning you know
Speaker: I think at 20, 25% in C2, uh, in those, you know, uh, 3.0 races, but it's only winning by the tightest of margins.
Speaker: And so I'm just thinking like, it's not going to be long before that horse is, is lapped, I suspect.
Speaker: Um, but there are some other horses, particularly those with, with old school variants that, you know, their lifespan is going to, going to be a lot, you know, a lot bigger.
Speaker: Um, just cause you know, when they get that role, I don't care what happens, they're going to win.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: So, you know, there's that element of as the pool grows.
Speaker: We win or lose by five seconds.
Speaker: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker: So, you know, there is going to be a lifespan that is set in terms of ageing, but then there's also a lifespan as the pool of horses continues to grow and they just become less competitive.
Speaker: Yeah, it'll be something worth watching, I think.
Speaker: Like there's a – I don't see a day where I –
Speaker: never want to see artois run again like and die i guess it's it's a bit wild like i don't know if we have legends tournaments or masters cups or or whatever um i know if you could know i was talking about like you you would just run once a month from the stamina like the stamina will get worse and worse and worse or something he was he said a few a few months ago um but i can't i
Speaker: you know, a Legends Cup, I think, is something that would have a lot of value in 12 or 18 months' time, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And look, you know, in concept, you know, we'll see how it plays out.
Speaker: I quite like, you know, that vision that they've outlined where, you know, that horse will always continue to run.
Speaker: You know, once a month seems a bit silly.
Speaker: You know, surely you can give those best horses a race, you know, once a day or something like that and
Speaker: you're only going to see those horses in a $500 buy-in or something like that anyway, if that's the case.
Speaker: But just fraying up those $2.50 and the $5 and those sorts of races for new horses, I think it's necessary.
Speaker: We'll just have to see how hard they go in terms of turning up the dial.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So when we start to think about like racing across your stable, uh, your stable, like what, what is the strategy that you apply to racing?
Speaker: Like, how do you go about, like you mentioned the stables variance heavy.
Speaker: So if you talk me through, I guess the process of racing strategically, how do you gain your edge?
Speaker: Um, any tools that you use to kind of, and how do you leverage them?
Speaker: Those kinds of things.
Speaker: Yeah, the only tool that I subscribe to and pay for is Stacknax Pro.
Speaker: So, you know, every now and then I won't
Speaker: resubscribe at the end of my period.
Speaker: And then, you know, within a couple of days, you know, I want it back, even if though, even though I don't think I use it a whole lot, you know, I think it's just the, you know, the safety blanket of having it there.
Speaker: Because most of my paid runners are variance horses.
Speaker: I actually pay very little attention to the fields that I go in and maybe that's a mistake, but it kind of just comes down to, you know, the role that they get.
Speaker: So at any point in time, you know, I've just mentally got,
Speaker: in my head, my roster of paid races, you know, and that's generally C4 and up.
Speaker: I only really dust off C5 and C6 horses, you know, for tournaments when they existed.
Speaker: So I, you know, I'll just go in when I've got a bit of time and just throw them all into races basically and then sit back and watch them over the course of the next couple of hours.
Speaker: So, yeah.
Speaker: You know, there's obviously a lot more strategy that goes into breeding and discovery as you've got a new horse.
Speaker: But once you know that horse and then you tend to know the horses that you're racing against, you know, if I've got a bunch of horses running C2 marathons, I know I'm up against all the time or, you know, a lot of mid runners.
Speaker: So, you know, I go in and I see Shadow for Days in there.
Speaker: Okay, I'll skip that one.
Speaker: So, you know, it's about probably just avoiding a few horses and otherwise, you know,
Speaker: just throwing them in.
Speaker: Um, most of them, my, my favorite format at the moment are probably top two payout six horse races.
Speaker: You know, they're, um, you know, they're pretty good for variance horses.
Speaker: You know, occasionally you need to go a bit more towards the winner takes all for those real extreme sort of U shapes to make sure you get the ROI.
Speaker: But generally speaking, that's my, that's my bread and butter.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: Only in the last couple of weeks, as a result of a few recent breeds in 3.0, I've finally got a few double up horses.
Speaker: It's literally taken me probably, you know, 18 months to actually hit genuine double up horses that you can just sort of throw in endlessly.
Speaker: So that's been a new thing to discover and have a bit of fun with.
Speaker: But as I said, with those variance horses, avoid a few and grind away.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Yeah, it's a bit of a sad state at the moment.
Speaker: Like I've got a couple of really strong variance horses that I do something very similar.
Speaker: There's a couple of horses you just stay away from.
Speaker: There's a horse called Great or Useless.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not useless.
Speaker: It's pretty clear which side of the role that got.
Speaker: But I just stay away from them and then kind of get running.
Speaker: But that idea or that fact that it's always the same horses, like this is the one thing I'm kind of looking to see change.
Speaker: um, with, and I guess with volume, right?
Speaker: Like I know BG posted in Twitter today.
Speaker: And for when this comes out, this is the 17th of March, 18th of March.
Speaker: Um, BG posted about a micro site in Z that has been published.
Speaker: I don't know if you saw that.
Speaker: And he's like, Ooh, is there a marketing push coming?
Speaker: Who knows?
Speaker: Who knows?
Speaker: Who knows?
Speaker: Um, I've heard from a little birdie.
Speaker: It is, it is coming and it's coming pretty soon.
Speaker: So, you know, um,
Speaker: And that is, I think, sort of towards the end of this month, you know, we're likely to see a bit of a marketing push.
Speaker: And I think in response to BG's thread there, I think even it was Ryan of Fakundo came out and said that that is a microsite that's largely there for, I think, search engine optimization and, you know, making sure when people throw into build, you know, searches that it comes up.
Speaker: So, yeah, I think that is a sign that we're pretty close to a push.
Speaker: And hopefully with that comes some volume, you know,
Speaker: Mind you, what they've done in terms of the different conditional bands, the different race formats, I am racing different horses now than I was a couple of months ago.
Speaker: The 3.0 only horses, I'm not recognising a lot of the horses in those races.
Speaker: So it's a hell of a lot better than it was a couple of months ago.
Speaker: I'll give them that.
Speaker: But absolutely, that's the goal.
Speaker: More users, more volume.
Speaker: dilated fields which will come with ageing as well.
Speaker: You know, that's bringing it on.
Speaker: What's a horizon?
Speaker: What's a good horizon for you, do you think?
Speaker: Like I know we see the game change.
Speaker: I tend to think it changes a little too quickly at times.
Speaker: So maybe I know they're trying to walk a very, it's just a fine line between responsiveness and
Speaker: you know, to use a word, stability on the platform.
Speaker: And that, you know, like from a software development perspective, I reckon like their roadmaps may be an 18-month thing, but I don't know.
Speaker: What's a good horizon for you, do you think, to be?
Speaker: Yeah, I think that they've been working on a horizon which is nearly coming to an end.
Speaker: And, you know, we've seen the progressive delivery of,
Speaker: I think building up to and probably finishing with ageing, which has really been, you know, that first horizon, that vision that Facundo, you know, set out, you know, probably six or nine months ago.
Speaker: So it'd be interesting to see what comes after that.
Speaker: Because I think it's possible to have that view of that horizon, which is, you know, probably pretty close to being realised,
Speaker: while also being responsive in smaller ways to feedback and things that aren't quite working as intended.
Speaker: I think one of the, you know, a great example of that just in the last 24, 48 hours was the addition of the additional band at the top of C1.
Speaker: So, you know, we've now got the,
Speaker: 5.76 to 600 whatever it is um you know I had a bit of you know it's pretty rare that I do this but I h ad a bit of a vent on on Twitter when I had a horse upgrade to to 5.76 and yeah and it was just like oh well off off you know basically retire that horse now um there's no way you can compete against the the six tens and um those other horses that are up there and
Speaker: that actually generated a lot of feedback, a lot of replies.
Speaker: And then I'm sure it wasn't because of that particular tweet.
Speaker: But, you know, within a couple of days of that, we see that new band, which is going well.
Speaker: The volume in that band is good.
Speaker: And, you know, whilst you might think, oh, what's the point?
Speaker: There's only, you know, 20 or 30 or 40 horses, 600 plus.
Speaker: It makes a huge difference, you know, in terms of,
Speaker: your willingness to enter a race without those absolute beasts in there, you know, if there's three, four or five of them, don't bother.
Speaker: Whereas now I've got a reason to race my 576 because I can, you know, even if it's slightly negative ROI for the next five or 10 levels, I've got another lifespan in that horse to, to, to, to work towards as it gets to the top of that band.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: It's really great to see them respond quickly with what are probably minor tweaks and adding a new band, using the open class tab in different ways, which is a bit different to bigger horizons in terms of metas.
Speaker: But I think we're pretty close to the end of that one.
Speaker: And what comes after that?
Speaker: Let's see.
Speaker: Yeah, let's see indeed.
Speaker: Hopefully the marketing push brings a lot of people on and they have good experiences.
Speaker: So I have this, you know, I have this recurring nightmare, I guess, that we get a lot of people and everyone just starts selling them all their glue for ridiculously high prices and scares them away because that's probably going to happen.
Speaker: But we'll see.
Speaker: We shall see.
Speaker: We have lending now.
Speaker: So, you know, hopefully the onboarding
Speaker: process is go and lend a few horses.
Speaker: Yeah, well, I can't remember why I did it, but I went through the process of setting up a new stable, I think it was about a month ago.
Speaker: And before you can actually do anything, there's now this like
Speaker: onboarding flow where it takes you through steps.
Speaker: And the first thing you actually have to do in creating a new stable is borrow a horse and enter it into like five races before you then actually get the full functionality.
Speaker: So I think, you know, obviously that's part of that, that, that horizon, that, that vision is, is an improved onboarding experience, borrow some horses, you know, get a feel for it before, you know, as we probably did, you know, spending,
Speaker: way too much money on a donkey legendary.
Speaker: So, yeah, hopefully most people will go into lending or, you know, I hope be encouraged to buy a UUU or, you know, breed a horse or, you know,
Speaker: I think one thing 3.0 has done is really level the playing field and just giving people that thrill of unwrapping a horse, entering into a Griffin, being part of a maiden.
Speaker: That's the sort of onboarding experience we want to give, not just buying some overpriced horse, racing it a couple of times and leaving.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: Particularly, as you say, the idea of unwrapping a horse.
Speaker: That is the most exciting thing in Zed, hands down, every single time.
Speaker: Having said that, are you preparing for next week's maiden or how are you preparing is probably a better way to ask that question for next week's maiden.
Speaker: Have you got a few foals lined up, ready to go, or a couple of breeds you're preparing?
Speaker: Yeah, still working out who to breed.
Speaker: I'll definitely be breeding.
Speaker: I'm addicted to breeding.
Speaker: So I've got a bit of a spreadsheet with my, in particular, my jennies.
Speaker: That's one thing that I've found, at least personally, is whereas in previous breeding studies,
Speaker: Algos, you know, I was breeding, you know, some really high quality, exclusive and legendaries and getting good outputs.
Speaker: And that's just not producing the quality that I want.
Speaker: So for me now, it's more about understanding which of my jennies are available, who do I want to match them up with.
Speaker: And I actually have quite a few resets available for this breed.
Speaker: So for this maiden, I should say.
Speaker: So if anything, it's working out how much I actually want to spend rather than what within my stable I want to breed because there's plenty there I could do with.
Speaker: I'll probably end up with maybe somewhere between six and eight horses, I expect.
Speaker: I've gone into previous maidens with that sort of number and generally come out of that maiden getting pretty close to my breed cost back just on the maiden price pools.
Speaker: And then the rest is gravy in terms of producing some paid races that will continue to produce for me.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah, haven't done it yet, but, you know, I'll have a decent little field ready to go for the next one.
Speaker: Will you be breeding for both funnels or will you be breeding for the VAR funnel only?
Speaker: I think they'll largely be there.
Speaker: So just having a look at the stallions I've got available,
Speaker: Two of my Jenny stallions are variance horses.
Speaker: So, you know, if I'm breeding with them, then I'll almost certainly go for the winner takes all funnel.
Speaker: I do have one.
Speaker: It's a bit of a donkey.
Speaker: I don't breed with it often, but I have produced one or two decent double ups out of him.
Speaker: So I might have an experiment with that stallion that I normally don't breed with.
Speaker: and use that to have a run at the 1v1 because it'll be a bit of fun as well.
Speaker: I want something in those 1v1 maiden finals.
Speaker: That would be a blast.
Speaker: It would be a blast, wouldn't it?
Speaker: So you mentioned before, Anthony, you were very, very keen on breeding.
Speaker: Sounds just from talking to you about this, it sounds like Zed is a breeding game for you versus a racing game.
Speaker: So talk us through, I guess, how do you go about strategizing for your next breed?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Like how do you approach the selection of the horses that you want to do and what are you trying to get from an outcome?
Speaker: Like how specific do you get to a distance, to a format?
Speaker: Like are you that targeted?
Speaker: And tell us about your process that you go through.
Speaker: Yeah, so generally it's a maiden that will trigger the itch to breed.
Speaker: And obviously there's an incentive there to target those prize pools and get your breed fees back.
Speaker: So, you know, once that maiden's upcoming, it's about having a look at who's available.
Speaker: In previous iterations, it was about my best horses.
Speaker: Whereas now, as I said, it's more about which of my Jennys are available and who match up well with those.
Speaker: So if I've got a, if I've got a variance Jenny and I've got a few of those, then it's about matching them with a fellow variance, um, horse.
Speaker: So, you know, I haven't had a lot of luck and don't really advocate to breed a variance horse with a stability horse.
Speaker: I think you just end up producing horses that live in the middle and can't do either.
Speaker: and i am generally looking for matching dp as well occasionally i might take like a 1600 meter horse and and breed it into a thousand meter horse trying to target like a 12 1400 meter you know something that splits the difference but generally speaking i'm i'm matching um variants with distance preference and then hoping for a good role and that's about it so you know
Speaker: I'll take that Jenny and then sort of work my way down.
Speaker: If I've got another Jenny that matches it, great, particularly in the current meta.
Speaker: I'm therefore producing a legendary...
Speaker: and they're coming out with really high levels and I've had pretty good results.
Speaker: If I don't have a Jenny that matches, I'll try to find a legendary.
Speaker: If I don't have that, I'll produce an exclusive.
Speaker: And typically I won't go below that now.
Speaker: So, you know, I've got a bunch of really nice elites and crosses and I don't even bother with them now.
Speaker: I probably could and maybe play around in C4 or C5, wherever they land.
Speaker: But I find the breeding cost at the moment, they're a bit out of whack.
Speaker: they probably don't step down enough for my liking to really incentivize breeding with exclusives and below.
Speaker: So yeah, that's sort of it in a nutshell.
Speaker: And then you're just praying to the Zed gods for a good role.
Speaker: Like every other day.
Speaker: It's kind of interesting, right?
Speaker: The...
Speaker: You touch on the breed fee for breeding below exclusive because you are down four, five and six in the classes and particularly if you're getting the class five and class six.
Speaker: Like it'd be interesting to see that breeding fee step down a moment, you know, like sure if you were going to breed a class six horse, if it was a five or a $10 breed, class six would probably be stacked because it'd still be a lot of fun.
Speaker: Like you could, you know, that's where you could start to just mash horses together for fun, five or 10 bucks.
Speaker: But as you say, like I try and breed out some legendary breeds
Speaker: or use, I've got a couple of legendary stallions, knacker legendaries.
Speaker: So there's no just smashing those things together randomly at those prices.
Speaker: It's a very carefully considered and rare event.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: I mean, I'm toying with the idea of this, this maiden of using
Speaker: my NACA exclusive stallion insane shot, which is one of the ones that just leveled up into five, seven, six.
Speaker: So, you know, his starting level is five 30 or something like that.
Speaker: So he's obviously, he's got good marathon DP.
Speaker: He's got good variants.
Speaker: I'm just so reluctant to pull the trigger at, at the price for a NACA exclusive, knowing that I'm producing an elite and,
Speaker: Where's it going to land?
Speaker: Yeah, I just feel like they're a little, you know, they always step in the right direction when they revise those breeding fees.
Speaker: But, yeah, I think we really need to see a bit more of a step down as you progress down the breed types to really make it worth our while.
Speaker: Yeah, I've always found, like, particularly the NACA, once you get below, like, the exclusives and below, like, I've got a NACA exclusive I would have liked to have breed a lot more with because it's got a lot of variants.
Speaker: But it's like $180 a go or something, Aussie dollars.
Speaker: It's not something you would attend to frivolously, to say that.
Speaker: Especially like when you want to do, you know, a variance on variance experiment because I've got a 97 and this one's a 94 variance.
Speaker: And I've had one go with them in 3.0 already.
Speaker: and it didn't really hit.
Speaker: Cause I'm like, yeah, it's going to be a monster variance horse if it comes out.
Speaker: How many goes do you have?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, the sample size of one probably isn't enough, but at that cost as well, it's a tough choice.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, most of the horses that I've had success with in 3.0, as I said, have at least had one Jenny in there, in the mix.
Speaker: So, you know, and you certainly get the boost in terms of starting level from using the Jenny.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's interesting, right?
Speaker: So when you talk about the breeding element, so you're looking at two starting level horses and how then do you, I guess, infer from the level of the foal, did it pick up the DP?
Speaker: Did it pick up the variance?
Speaker: Like, is that something you think you can tell from that starting level?
Speaker: And how do you sort of think about that when you look at that starting level of that horse?
Speaker: um to be honest I probably don't infer a lot from the starting level for me then it's just a process of discovery um and I like to think I've got a pretty good grasp of things to get a good read on those horses pretty quickly obviously through my story earlier I don't always get it right when I shelve horses too early and leave behind some some quality horses but um you know I think
Speaker: I don't give up on a horse too quickly with a low starting level because it's pretty clear that variance is not weighted as much as maybe it could be or should be.
Speaker: So, you know, if I don't get a great starting level, okay, that's interesting.
Speaker: I threw two pretty good horses together here.
Speaker: Maybe I just got a really bad roll or maybe it's got a heap of variance, not much BA, and therefore this could be a really nice variance horse.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: always was always will be is my, my star variance horse.
Speaker: It's literally top 10 speed in the game at its distance in C4.
Speaker: Um, you know, when it kicks, it wins by four seconds in sprints.
Speaker: Um, but, um, so, you know, obviously variance played no role in its starting level down in C4 when it can win in C1.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: So, yeah, for me, it's more about discovery.
Speaker: And I'm certainly not as scientific as some when it comes to trying to predict starting level from two breeds.
Speaker: I know that Blood Tool and I think even Zedge gives an estimate of where it might land.
Speaker: I'd see some value in that.
Speaker: But for me, it's more about trying to get the right breed and then just praying and seeing what happens when I run that griff and hoping for something towards the top of a class.
Speaker: So you mentioned then like your discovery process, how, how many races does it take for you to discover a horse and to be comfortable with it?
Speaker: Um, more than what I normally give a horse, I'd say, um, you know, I'll, I'll go pretty quickly into paid.
Speaker: Um, for me, I'm, I'm looking for paid races, um, you know, particularly in this meta with, without free tournaments, um,
Speaker: I'm hunting the flame in terms of DP.
Speaker: I've got an idea of where I think the DP will hit based on the parents.
Speaker: I want to really quickly understand what the distance preference is and then you'll get a pretty good read in the first 10 races, I think, whether it's got variance or is a stability horse as well.
Speaker: If you're flaming and coming last a lot, then
Speaker: I love seeing that in my first couple of races.
Speaker: You've picked up some there.
Speaker: You've got the flame, which means you've got the potential to place high, and you've probably also got the DP right and just keep smashing it, throw it into page pretty quickly, see if it can cut it.
Speaker: I find that if it's not flaming where you think it should be, target some six-horse freeze because you can pick up a pretty good clue around distance preference there.
Speaker: maybe then step up to 12 horse freeze.
Speaker: Even though, you know, they're free, it's not simple to flame in those 12 horse freeze.
Speaker: So, you know, that's another indicator that you're getting closer to finding what you need to find out, then throw it in page and see if it can hold.
Speaker: Yeah, so talk about then the difference, I guess, from flaming in six horse,
Speaker: to flaming in 12 horse.
Speaker: Like, do flames matter in six horses at all?
Speaker: Like, is it still important?
Speaker: It's a data point.
Speaker: It's interesting.
Speaker: It tells you you may be on the right track, but it's certainly not telling you it's a good horse.
Speaker: There's a lot of horses that will get those flames in six-horse races because they finish third and second a lot, and that just won't translate to paid.
Speaker: It won't translate to 12-horse.
Speaker: That said, I think it's an indicator, and we shouldn't write them off.
Speaker: They're there for a reason.
Speaker: but, you know, interpret them with caution.
Speaker: Use them to translate that sort of hypothesis into 12 horse or paid races and then see if it continues.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, kind of use it as a, this is a good spot for a horse in a distance.
Speaker: Now whack it in 12s and see if you can flame again in 12s.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And look, if you're ultra-cautious, continue to ride it out for the 10 races or so in those frees.
Speaker: And if it's finishing second and third a lot, it's not a great sign.
Speaker: In a six-horse free race, if you've got a half-decent horse, you'll be winning them consistently.
Speaker: Or you'll be sixth and flaming a lot.
Speaker: And that's interesting.
Speaker: Again,
Speaker: doesn't mean everything, but, you know, if you're in some weak fields and you're consistently running sixth and fifth with some flames, you know, that's a decent sign you might have picked up some variance.
Speaker: So, you know, again, like I say, it's a data point.
Speaker: It's interesting, but only the start of the story.
Speaker: And you say sort of what, eight to 10 races per distance?
Speaker: I reckon I've got it.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean,
Speaker: you go through my stable, you'll see a lot of horses that have probably raced 10, 10 races or less, um, which is in total.
Speaker: And that's not enough.
Speaker: Um, it's just about time and, you know, I'm probably riding horses off too early.
Speaker: Um, particularly when you, when you're,
Speaker: It's probably, it probably matters more as you're breeding out exclusives and below, because there is that chance you've hit a bit of a random distant preference from, from an ancestor.
Speaker: Um, whereas if I'm breeding a legendary, I know where those Genesis parents DP lies.
Speaker: So, you know, you pretty much locked into DP pretty, pretty immediately.
Speaker: Um, and then it's more about understanding if it's got a good role and whether it's variance or stability.
Speaker: unless you get occasionally you get a very random DP from two Genesis parents.
Speaker: I had one in the last maiden, two pure 2400 meter parents.
Speaker: That's that horse now running at 1800 meters and flaming in page.
Speaker: And I still don't understand it.
Speaker: So occasionally that sort of thing happens, but,
Speaker: I think you should probably give horses more length in terms of number of races than I give them.
Speaker: So do as I say, not as I do.
Speaker: Spoken like a great dad.
Speaker: So you also touched upon a few kind of reminiscing back in the days, like free tournaments and all those.
Speaker: I mean, when I first started in Zed, it was right when they removed free races with prize pools.
Speaker: I remember watching a lot of videos where everyone was like, this is great, this game.
Speaker: Just jump in, wait for a free race.
Speaker: It doesn't cost you anything.
Speaker: You might win money.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, that sounds fantastic.
Speaker: And as soon as I started, they were gone, which was sad, but anyway.
Speaker: And it seems a bit like that with the free tourneys now as well.
Speaker: What do you think the tournament structure looks like going forward with Zed?
Speaker: Are we now looking forever into the future at this kind of maiden level?
Speaker: operation or do you think there's other things in the offing that we've just got to wait and see?
Speaker: Look, I'm sure there are things in the offing, but I also think those previous structures, both the free races that you mentioned with prize pools, but even the free tournaments, like they weren't sustainable.
Speaker: You know, they were great for propping up an ecosystem that was struggling a bit, trying to retain users, build users while they were building for this new meta that they've been working towards, but they couldn't just keep
Speaker: funding those tournaments, um, endlessly.
Speaker: So, you know, whilst it's, it's hard to accept and to everyone likes free money, um, you know, I think that we're, we're probably in a more sustainable direction now in terms of like where, where the game's heading with self funded maidens, there's still a sizable treasury there.
Speaker: And I think we'll see a rate come back pretty soon in some sort of a form.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: and therefore that's going to build that.
Speaker: I don't think it's going to be the same sort of tournaments in terms of weekly set prize pools and the like, but I do certainly hope that we'll see some sort of like flagship events, you know, the sort of C1 Premier type events, you know, hopefully at some point in the future, they might even be, you know, supported through sponsorship and the like.
Speaker: So I certainly don't think we've seen the end of tournaments and we only have maidens.
Speaker: But I don't think it'll be as regular and as predictable as we had it.
Speaker: It'll be more sort of flagship events.
Speaker: You know, maybe one week it's C4, one week it's another or something like that.
Speaker: But I'm generally comfortable with the direction that we're heading in, knowing that it's a more sustainable model for Zed.
Speaker: And ultimately, if Zed goes under, we all go under, so...
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: It's sustainable is the key, right?
Speaker: Like it has to be self-sustainable as well.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But, but what I, what I do hope to see as well is, is more, um, you know, community generated tournaments.
Speaker: Uh, so I, I'm a firm believer that, that that is sort of the, that is the future, um, that the sorts of tournaments that, that Dan Shan runs nearly daily, um, that, um,
Speaker: Zed Racer ran back in the day with the Zed Racer International.
Speaker: Let the community innovate, let them do that sort of stuff.
Speaker: They can take their rake, Zed can take some sort of a rake from those and provide that platform to those innovators and those members of the community that want to run different tournament formats.
Speaker: Cause you know, I know I've had a hell of a lot of fun participating in different types of tournaments and working them out and the different strategies involved.
Speaker: And, you know, it doesn't have to be a Zed run run tournament to be interesting and sustainable.
Speaker: This is true.
Speaker: This is true indeed.
Speaker: And I love the, the idea of custom racetracks, like you run your tournaments in your, your stadium.
Speaker: So you could have a, if you could buy an NFT that was, you know, in the McGuinness Coliseum or whatever.
Speaker: And then you could put on your own races, put on the next Beat the Beast in your own stadium.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I would be very surprised if that's not on their roadmap.
Speaker: You know, it's obviously not.
Speaker: an immediate priority it's not part of you know what they're building towards now in terms of a sustainable ecosystem and meta including aging and and stamina and all the rest of it but i i do think it's there um i think it makes sense for zed to sort of be that central platform that that runs it all and and then have others that are
Speaker: that are plugging into APIs and sort of setting up those races, you know, for themselves.
Speaker: That's absolutely the future.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker: And, like, the scale is, that's massive scale at that point.
Speaker: And from what we've seen just in the community today, like, the community will run with this.
Speaker: This is, you know, deputise all these people like Dan Chan.
Speaker: like, you know, the Aura platform that's just popped up, that Aura NFT thing that they're trying as well.
Speaker: And everyone out there is sort of gagging for this sort of stuff.
Speaker: So it will be fun times ahead, one hopes.
Speaker: Fun times ahead.
Speaker: I hope so.
Speaker: So with this marketing campaign then, like have you, talking about onboarding for a second, have you started to think about onboarding
Speaker: people you know into the game or have you kind of, you've had that, you've tried that 12, 18 months ago and we all got burnt.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I tried it a little bit.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: You know, I've still got a joint stable with my brother and a cousin and, you know, we bought a few Jennys and they sit there doing pretty much nothing except losing value.
Speaker: I did onboard one mate who still races and we chat there daily.
Speaker: So that's one of the few success stories.
Speaker: Another mate who didn't stick around.
Speaker: So, you know, it's a different...
Speaker: It's a different game.
Speaker: It's a different financial opportunity than it, than it once was, you know, when we joined, you know, you could breed a horse and, and sell it instantly for 4X, 5X the breed cost.
Speaker: You could even breed a horse, race it, realize it's a dud and sell it for more than the breed cost.
Speaker: Um,
Speaker: So, you know, that was just obviously not sustainable.
Speaker: So, you know, I think that, you know, there are some people that
Speaker: are still hoping for a return of, of those glory days that I think are long gone.
Speaker: You know, I'm not sure we're going to see another hundred ETH breathless edge sale.
Speaker: I think it's a, it's a different game.
Speaker: It's a different vision that, that they're, that they're working towards.
Speaker: One that is, that is bigger in scale, but maybe doesn't have the same huge upside that, that maybe we all hoped was once there.
Speaker: And so with that,
Speaker: understanding I think you know if I was to push into onboarding and bringing other people on it's probably with that understanding and those caveats and you know if you're if you're up for a game of discovery and breeding and racing and you know breeding a horse for $50 and you know making $100 out of it then you know this could be a game for you if you know if you're into that sort of discovery and data and and the like but
Speaker: at least with where we are now and where I think they're heading.
Speaker: I don't think it's the get-rich-quick sort of opportunity that maybe was there in breeding of diamonds and selling it for 10-8.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker: And again, like a lot of these scenarios, right, the unicorns are held up, the outliers are held up as...
Speaker: You know, there's a lot more glue got bred and didn't sell for anything than 10th diamonds, which is... So look, I mean, I'd be more than happy to onboard friends as long as you're just realistic with them in terms of what the game is and what it could be and the risks that are involved.
Speaker: But if...
Speaker: you know, I still very much enjoy it.
Speaker: And so if I think others will and I tell them exactly what's involved, then hey, you know, why not?
Speaker: Yeah, it's fascinating.
Speaker: I'm still very much, yeah, hopelessly hooked on the game.
Speaker: And I don't know why.
Speaker: It's just strangely compelling to be into it.
Speaker: Yeah, it's not entirely rational.
Speaker: Anyway.
Speaker: Look, mate, Anthony, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker: It's been, we're sort of approaching an hour.
Speaker: We're nearly at an hour.
Speaker: So we keep these, I like to keep them at about an hour.
Speaker: So as I say to absolutely everyone who comes onto the show, I'll see you on the track.
Speaker: See you later.
